15/01/2012 Sunday Politics London

Afternoon, folks, welcome to the very first edition of the Sunday

Politics! Hardtop story: The Miliband relaunch, is it working,

and how much is Labour's economic policy changing? We asked former

Labour Chancellor Alistair Darling. And A for effort for Michael Gove,

but will his reforms actually improve English schools? The

Secretary it a stage joins us for the Sunday interview. And as Alex

Salmond tells the Sunday Politics George Osborne is wrong to suggest

an independent Scotland could not keep the pound, Labour and the SNP

go-ahead to end on independence. And meet our political panel, a new

generation of commentators here every week to analyse politics in

the weekend and treating throughout the programme.

In London, the man behind Westminster's controversial plans

to introduce evening parking charges in the West End, council

leader Colin Barrow, has resigned. Before all of that, the news with

Maxine Mawhinney. Good afternoon. People are still

being found alive aboard the capsized Italian ship Costa

Concordia nearly 40 hours after it ran aground off Italy's west coast.

Two people, a honeymooning couple from South Korea, were brought

ashore overnight. This morning there are reports that a senior

crew member has also been rescued. Matthew Price's report contains

The beached hulk are the cruise liner lies stranded, so close to

land that it is almost onshore. Helicopters winched down more help

for those believed to be trapped inside this lunchtime. The

coastguard is still trying to work out how many people remain

This was the scene as the ship began to list and then capsize.

Because it was so close to land, the vast majority of people were

off within hours. Late last night, though, two Korean jurists were

eventually located and brought to safety. -- jurists. All the Britons

on board are known to have survived. Still, there are potentially more

people to bring out alive. It is cold here, though, and they are in

Police and Leeds are questioning a 36-year-old man about the deaths of

a woman and a child whose bodies were found at their house in Leeds.

A four-year-old girl who was also found that the house in the calf of

area has been treated in hospital for minor injuries. -- Carrefour.

The man is being detained on suspicion of murder and attempted

murder. Police investigating a double

killing in Birmingham have arrested a second man. Carole and Avtar

Kolar were found dead at their home in Handsworth Wood on Wednesday. A

40-year-old man is being questioned on suspicion of murder. Page 24-

year-old arrested on Friday remains in custody. -- A 24-year-old.

Fines for people who put their rubbish in the wrong bins or out on

the wrong day are being scrapped today. Some councils in England can

find residents up to �1,000 for making errors if they got recycling

in the wrong bins or leave them out on the wrong day.

One is here on BBC One at 6:35pm. - - More news.

The Miliband relaunch continues this morning with his interview on

the Andrew Marr programme, but what is the substance behind Labour's

economic policy? We are joined from them run by former Chancellor

Alistair Darling. Could you clarify what has changed? I agree with what

Ed is saying today, making it clear that by 2015, the time of the next

election, it is likely there will be a lot less money to go around

than there has been in the past, and we have got to be realistic

about it. There are some things the government does now which it will

not be able to do or two less of in the future. The other thing which

is absolutely critical and where there is a big division between the

two main political parties, how do good growth? The problem that faces

us and Europe is that we are in a situation of almost paralysis when

growth is drying up, borrowing is going up, debt is going up, hence

the downgrades you have seen in Europe over the weekend.

understand that, but we have known all of the above for quite some

time. What is new? I think what is different is that both Ed Miliband

at the Ed Balls are saying in stark terms that we have to make choices

as to what we think we can do and what we cannot do. In addition to

that, there are also choices to be made as how you get growth going

again, how you get recovery. At a time when the world is changing

quickly, it is absolutely critical. I welcome the new emphasis that

both Ed Miliband and Ed Balls are putting on that. Ed Miliband told

Andrew Marr that he thought the Government was cutting too fast and

too quickly. He still wanted a cut in VAT. Again, what has really

changed? Well, you are asking about the rate at which the Government

was cutting. You will recall that the policy that I left, if you like,

was one that was predicated on the fact that it to cut too quickly,

the risk is crashing the economy, and that is what has happened.

George Osborne are borrowing �150 billion more than he expected to

because growth has stalled. -- is borrowing. That is a clear

difference between the two political parties. I think one of

the key battlegrounds over the next two or three years, as the

Government and opposition want to establish credibility with the

electorate, is what policies are credible, what is the right way to

get growth going again? Without broke, we do not get borrowing down,

and we will end up with very much higher unemployment than otherwise.

-- without growth. A new emphasis of Ed Miliband, I very much welcome

that. Another battleground will be independent of the country and city

you are sitting in now. Alex Salmond spoke to the Sunday

Politics today, this is what he had to say. The UK government cannot

stop an independent Scotland using sterling for a number of reasons.

Sterling is not owned by George Osborne. He has been chancellor for

18 months, sterling has been around for a long time. The Bank of

England was founded by a Scot before the Act of Union. But it is

a fully convertible currency. You could not instruct people not to

use sterling. I do not what George Osborne's degree was in, but it

certainly was not economics. That interview is in Sunday Politics

Scotland, not long to go for that. Tell me this, who is right? Could

Scotland used sterling as an independent state with or without

the support and approval of the Bank of England and the British

Treasury? Well, you know, Panama uses the dollar. That is obviously

the American currency. The difficulty is, though, if Scotland

was using the pound in the same circumstances, its interest rates

would be fixed by the governor of a bank in what would be a foreign

country. It seems to me to be an absolutely ludicrous position to

get yourself into, when you have a currency where you cannot control

monetary policy, because taxing and spending goes together with

monetary policy. There is an alternative. You could have reached

an agreement with what remained of the UK, but they would want to see

rules like the eurozone to stop excessive deficits, to stop

Scotland from having a vastly different tax-and-spend policy, in

which case you are back into the same position you have got now. You

swap one set of rules for another, or you could join the euro, and I

think Alex Salmond knows the euro is as toxic in Scotland as in the

rest of the UK. In terms of who leads the case for the Union

against Mr Salmond, it cannot be a Tory, it cannot be an Englishman,

it cannot be Gordon Brown. Should it be Alistair Darling? I have said

I intend to play a full part in doing that. I am and MP, so I am in

the House of Commons four days a week. It is important the campaign

is run from Scotland. Make no mistake... Nothing more important

than the union to you, you could spend more time in Scotland!

Maintaining the union between our countries is important because that

is what is best for Scotland, and that is my starting point. I will

play a full part in doing that. The day-to-day organisation will have

to be done from here, but this is a two-and-a-half-year campaign. It

makes the American presidential campaign look very short indeed. I

will play my part because I care very much. Thank you for being our

first guest on the first edition of the Sunday politics.

Tony Blair once said that when it came to reforming public services,

New Labour were at their best when they were boulders. He went on to

regret they were not bold enough, but when it comes to education,

Blairite reform is fitted with rocket boosters thanks to Tory

Education Secretary Michael Gove. In case you missed it, a reminder

of how the spirit of Tony lives on in the Department for Education.

It has been a busy year for the Education Secretary, 24 New

Independent but state-funded free schools, some founded by parents,

opened last September with more to follow this year. There has been a

massive expansion of academies from 200 and belabour up to 1529 today.

-- under Labour. The Education Secretary says... The enemies of

the Academy's programme, the enemies of reform who want to put

Bolton ahead of people's interests. It will be easier for head teachers

to sack bad teachers from September. Ofsted, which runs school

inspections, has been shaken up. A new boss and tougher inspections.

With me to discuss whether these reforms will actually work,

You have been a busy man, he wants to improve the quality of schools

in England. By what yardstick should we judge your success or

failure? They have to be several. When you judge the health of the

education system, just as the health of a human being, unique to

not just take the pulse but look at all the vital signs. There are some

early signs which will tell us whether we are on the right track.

The first is whether we see more students following the rigorous

subject that would give them a better chance in the future, so

more people studying history, geography, modern foreign languages

and the hard sciences, physics, chemistry and biology. Give us

another. Are we see more headteachers taking advantage of

academy powers? Are more people opting to enjoy academy status? The

third thing is whether we are seeing independent schools deciding

that what we have done in the state sector is so good that the state

sector is improving at such a sufficient rate that they can join.

If we see discipline improving to the extent that teachers feel more

confident about keeping order in the classroom and parents feel that

schools are a safer place. Those of four which I expect to change

quickly. More broadly... Let me give you a tight a yardstick. If

you forgive me for saying so, these are quite nebulous. Let's look at

the international league table for 65 countries. This was in 2009, in

a sense your inheritance. England came 25thth or Reading, 27th

formats -- formats. Your reforms will have failed if the English

Schools do not start to climb up this league table. It will take

about 10 years before we see the fruits of all the reforms that we

are making which will lead to a turnaround in league tables like

that, and the reason for that is the next time that specific

snapshot will be taken, it will be for students who have spent the

majority of their time in schools following policies set by the

previous administration. So if we do not see an improvement in our

rankings, you will have failed? think we need to take 10 years and

look at a variety of measures. It is a good measure, and I would not

disparage it, but the four things I mentioned earlier are all things

where we can see a measurable difference, and there are other

areas where we can begin to see whether things are changing for the

better. It seems to me that since you have decried our decline, your

policies need to lead to an increase in our state is in these

tables. At absolutely think they should, and one of the reasons that

is important is because we have to compare ourselves with other

countries. What we will not do is do what previous Labour education

secretaries did, looking at every year's exam results and saying,

what a good boy I am! These have risen, I am clearly doing the right

thing. Unfortunately, the achievements of children on the

ground, the real achievements became debased and valued because

Labour education secretaries sound and light Soviet commissars

praising a tractor production figures when we knew that those

exams were not the rock solid and reliable measures of achievement

that children deserve. People will want to judge you by exam success,

so let's look at the problem you have alluded to comment GCSE and A-

Is that grade inflation? Yes. doesn't that mean therefore, for

you to be successful, for you to get some rigour back into the

system, fewer people will have to do well at the top rate? We need to

make sure that we are tight about the definition of success, not just

at the top but all way through. It is important to recognise it is not

just grade inflation. I believe schools have got better,

incrementally in some cases, quicker in others over the course

of the last 15 years, absolutely, but what we have not done is

improve the rate at which other countries have improved, and what

lies behind this Bergues is a sadder story, which is that the gap

between rich and poor has grown wider over the last 15 years. --

figures. That is another matter which matters, are we ensuring that

poor children are improving at just the same rate, if not faster, than

Be used to be that there was a quota for an A-grade A level,

therefore, universities and the public knew these were the 10% best

and brightest, why not go back to that? I floated the idea, in which

there is merit. But why not fall grades? A want to involve

universities small in A-levels, in setting the questions, grading the

examinations and working out what the marks should be -- I want. The

reason I want to do that is because A-levels are a guide to whether

somebody will benefit from the opportunities university education

brings, so I won them to play a bigger role. To do that, you need

to do it collaboratively. I am asking universities how can we make

A-levels more rigorous? For all grades? A want to hear what the

universities have to say. That is not very radical, you are supposed

to be a radical education secretary. You need to get rid go back in,

that would be the way to do it, but you also need to accept that if you

inflate grades, then at some stage when exam results come out that

fewer students will paradoxically get the a * and A grades. Possibly

yes. You are prepared to accept that? Absolutely. You have to tell

the truth about this, I think when people see that the number of

people getting a first, or to one a university, they know that schools

have not improved at that rate so discredits the integrity of the

education system. The tougher exams then fewer A-grade A-levels?

absolutely, and if that means fewer passes, that is something we have

to accept. But I want to ensure that as well it's exams being

tougher, that schools work harder and I hope we will see exams once

again being trusted across the globe and our children are among

the best in the world. Let's move on to academies. This is what you

have to say in a speech in 2009, November, you said we want to see a

radical shift in power away from Whitehall and toured schools and

parents. We want parents given more control over their children's

education. So why not let the parents of say, down Hills primary

school in Haringey, have the control over their children's

education? You are making them an academy, they don't want it. It is

under judicial review so I must be careful about that particular

school. When schools are doing well you step back and let parents

choose between them, you interfere less and allow good teachers to do

more. But where there is failure the state should intervene, in

particular with failure and poor children suffering, it is my

responsibility to say to the local authority and the teachers there

sorry, not good enough. But even when the headmaster, parents and

teachers do not want academy status? I thought you said the man

in Whitehall did not know best? Sometimes you do need to tackle

failure. Over all, we're looking at hundreds of underperforming primary

schools, in almost all those circumstances the heads, local

authorities and governors say we have problems, we want help, but

there are some places where they are saying actually, we do not want

your help, hands off. I cannot allow that to happen because my aim

is to raise standards for children and one of the things in some parts

of the country is that the old hard Left political elements spoiling

for a fight... I thought you were one of those? I have been many

In the end, you have said you would let parents decide themselves and

in fact, when you do not like what they are doing you step in and tell

them what to do. In the overwhelming number of

circumstances I want parents to have more power and we are giving

them more power to choose a more information about their schools.

But wary school is failing, whether it is one school in one part of

London, or elsewhere, then I will step in. It is my job to make sure

standards are raised in this country. So sometimes Whitehall

does not know best? Some times you need a leader. The leader to say

Ah'm a champion for higher standards. The argument for me is

what is in the interests of these children and our standards

improving? If people say you're making itself unpopular, I do not

care, because the reason I am in this job... We know the reason you

are in the job. Let me ask you about Ed Miliband. When it comes to

issues like responsible capitalism, the squeezed middle, he leads and

your party follows? That is ludicrous for at least three

reasons... Give me a good one. responsible capitalism, David

Cameron was way out on this. When Ed Miliband was handing out night

had so, it was David Cameron who made the speeches at the start of

his time as leader calling for greater responsibility in this is,

it was his principal adviser Steve Hilton who is the first think in

this country in the book he wrote to argue both that capitalism

should be more responsible... briefly, if Scotland goes

independent you represent part of Surrey, would you seek political

asylum? I think there are some people who think I should be in a

different sort of asylum! I pray we can keep the country together.

Thank you for being our first big interview on the programme. The

debate over the nature of the referendum for Scottish

independence continues but matters are already shifting from tactical

tussles between Edinburgh and Westminster too hard questions

about the nature and credibility of a separate Scottish state. It

includes such basics as what would be the Scottish currency? So how

will the two sides do battle? We went to Bannockburn to find out.

Last time the Scots won independence they squared up at

Bannockburn. If Alex Salmond is to emulate that with his chosen

referendum date of 2014 the 700 anniversary of that class, he will

have to do so with votes, not an In defeating the English, he did

not just win independence, he also won valuable prisoners and �200,000

of English coin. In this referendum independence battle how much it is

worth and what it might cost is more complicated. There are already

a conflict of statistics with both sides claimed in the country would

be better off, worse off, and what the voter has to do is make sense

of these buy it distinguishing what is politically motivated

information rather than independent information. Based on the portion

of information Scotland might have to take on about 80 billion of the

UK's 940 billion pound debt pile and it might service that. But any

insistence that an independent Scotland also take on a share of

the 1.25 trillion liabilities of saving the banks, such as the cost

of bailing out RBS and HBOS, might take the biscuit. Both independence

and the union have the business What we have might well well but

don't change the winning team. think business does not really like

fundamental change. It is probably better the devil you know them

something new. I am different, I think it is exciting! We need

England more than England needs cars. They might put a tax on the

border, maybe the fat there is another 5% on exports to England,

that would kill the thing. Simple - yes, or no? Or is there an appetite

for this third option? They call it The closest we had was the Calman

Commission, but that is a long way short of the full fiscal autonomy.

The political symbolism of early victories in this tussle is not

lost on any of those now entering the fray. Joining us to debate

whether Scotland can make it on its own, from Dundee, Stuart Ajose, and

If Scotland had been independent when the banks went bust, you would

have been bankrupt by 2009, wouldn't you? We would not have

been. In the same way that tax liability falls economic activity,

the notion that Scotland alone would have had to bail out of

international bank does not stand up to any scrutiny, look at the

multinational recapitalisation of Fortis Bank, for example. So we do

not accept the premise that we would have been liable for the

entire debt of the recapitalisation. What do you say to that? It could

be like Norway, a rich energy superpower? I would not use words

like bankrupt, it insults the intelligence of bankrupt --

Scottish people. The question on the referendum will not be one of

survival, it will be about what you believe Scotland is a fair,

prosperous country as part of the UK, or as a separate nation. The

reality is one of the benefits of being part of the union is we share

the risks and rewards and the banking crisis is an example of

that. The strength of the UK help us overcome the crisis and gave us

the position we are now hopefully moving in the right direction of.

There seems to be confusion about what the currency would be in an

independent Scotland. If you could not keep the pound because London

said you cannot use sterling then It may be called the Bank of

England but it is the UK central bank... You are getting rid of the

UK? The central bank is our bank as well. The rules which govern note

issues, or bank money, where an agreement with how that is done and

there is no obstacle to Scotland continuing to use sterling, which

is what we intend to do. Do you agree? The Bank of England is the

UK's Bank and the reality is at the moment we share that with our

biggest business partner. If we became of independent nation it

would be our biggest competitor. The SNP is posing that our

competitor sets our borrowing limits and rates. The reality is

these are unanswered questions from the SNP and very serious questions.

What will the future currency look I just answer that. We are keeping

sterling. But then you are accepting that the biggest business

competitor in a foreign country would be setting your borrowing and

spending limits and interest rates. Is that acceptable? At the moment

we do not control interest rate and quantitative easing, we have no

control over the fiscal levers. With independence there is the

discipline of interest rates being set by the central bank which

exists for most countries but we would then have complete control of

all the fiscal levers which I used to compensate the Monetary position.

The Bank of England will have a say in how much you can borrow, if you

are part of the Monetary Policy they will control your borrowing.

Each country borrows its own money, you do it sensibly, or you do it

foolishly and you have a sovereign problem. I would not imagine any

future Scottish government would want to over-borrowed to the extent

of these problems. But in the UK we have our business partner as

England, if we became a separate nation of OBR biggest business

competitor in this island, we are letting our biggest business

competitor decider interest rates, was spending limit and borrowing.

How is that economically credible I think the whole point here is

that we will have control over the fiscal levers to compensate when

monetary policy is less than optimum, a better the you call them

a competitor, we sell and buy from England as we compete, sell and buy

from countries around the world. Scotland does not only trade with

England as part of the Union, and we would not only trained with them

when we are part --... Coming up... We were looking at the issues in

the week ahead with our brand new political panel. First, the Sunday

Yes, hello from the cattle. As a row over parking charges cast a top

council leader his job? Plans for the charges in the West End at

evenings and weekends are brought huge opposition, and yesterday

Colin Barrow said he will be resigning. He will be here to tell

us why. First, he with us for the duration this week are Emily

Thornberry, Labour MP for Islington South and Finsbury and shadow

Attorney-General, and Mark Field, Conservative MP for cities of

London and Westminster. Emily, I know something that has caught your

eye has been the latest child poverty figures. Yes, I mean they

have... Let me put it this way, Labour worked hard at trying to get

children out of poverty, and we got about one million out. The new

statistics show that in the next in his one million children could fall

back into poverty. We see nothing in government policy that will stop

that, and it is very worrying, and it particularly affects the

Islington. People think about Islington as being leafy lanes and

cappuccino bars, but we have the second worst child poverty in the

country. Of course, Labour failed to hit your own target. I know, of

course we had very high targets and we failed to meet them, but we got

900,000 children out of poverty, and the question now is whether

they will stay out or tumble back in again. Mark, you can see the

mayoral race beginning already, four months away, but no question

we are under way. We are having his daily countdown until the Olympics,

but 109 days until we have Boris against 10, the big battle. That is

going to be very exciting to watch, not just in London, but the most

important national campaign in the run-up to the 3rd May. We have

already seen, straight off the mark, we were barely able to digest our

Christmas cake and Owen Sheers drinks, and Ken Livingstone was

making a campaign on fares. It was a very interesting. His Boris

Johnson vulnerable on that? I think he is more vulnerable to the idea

of complacency. Most people think he will be a shoo-in, Londoners and

many of Emily's collies I have spoken to quietly. -- colleagues.

Is that true? Nonsense, good try! People who will not come forward

and say that. You do not think it is Boris Johnson's to lose? I think

Ken Livingstone is making progress, and nobody can call it at the

moment. I think it will be a close- run thing. Most decent bowl suggest

Ken was eight points behind Boris, and I do not want much complacency.

-- polls. I imagine we might be talking about this over the next

few weeks, but let's move on! It has been a good week if you have

got a tunnelling machine, either of you? The government finally

confirmed its plans for a new high- speed rail link, a major

construction task, and across the Chilterns Aga warmed kitchens looks

set to become the nerve centres for a big protest campaign which could

give the Government quite a headache. Among those who feel the

case may still need to be made more convincingly is this man.

I think we have got to keep negotiating, keep arguing, because

there is no reason at all in my view of why people in the Chilterns

should receive substantial mitigation in the form of extensive

tunnels than people and west London. Mark Field, are you sold on the

idea of HS2? One of the most important things was to try and

ensure that the real danger point around Euston, which has not that

any capacity for the increased numbers that are likely to come in,

was going to be looked after, and the fact that the argon to have a

new station near Wormwood Scrubs which will link up Crossrail with

HS2 is good news. But Boris is right in this regard, given that we

are committed to spending only 200 million out of a total expenditure

of �32 billion during the course of the parliament, there is a risk

that the plug could be called on his project going forward. If you

look at what happened with Crossrail 30 years ago, not enough

money had been spent and it was easy to put the thing on the back

burner. Only ones seven of the 32 billion has been spent can we be

sure that we have gone beyond the point of no return. Some would say

this is less politically contentious because Labour support

the principle of HS2, but do you feel that a lot of the political

attention is likely to be out there, in the shires, in Buckinghamshire,

and the people of Camden, quite close to where you represent, are

going to be neglected? It is an important point. People talk about

the NIMBYs in the Chilterns not wanting their views ruined, but 300

families will lose their homes. Can you be a NIMBY if your house is

going? We have not had sufficient reassurances as to what will happen

to these people. It will be a great new world for them, want it?

and, we are not against it, but there are some practical things.

300 families ought to be more of a priority than they have been so far.

But Crossrail, there were similar problems in my constituency around

so are, where there was compulsory purchase, but it was very rapid,

and the overall economic case was made for Crossrail that meant that

everyone could see the benefits, even if it was an imposition.

you accept the idea that there is no provision for extra Tube

capacity, plus capacity? There is likely to be a big squeeze. That

was the point I was making. You need another hub. But are we

convinced that will happen? There I think we are going to see London

like a building site for the next few years. Crossrail is immensely

important, we have a huge station coming up in Farringdon. It is

going to make all the difference in the world. People's lives will be

transformed by that new infrastructure, and we needed.

Something that has already caused howls of protest over the last few

months, a plan by Westminster to introduce parking charges in the

West End it evenings and weekends. An early political price has been

paid by Colin Barrow, the Conservative leader of Westminster,

who announced yesterday he was to stand down. Sonja Jessup has more.

Parking charges are rarely popular, but in Westminster the backlash

over evening and weekend fees was particularly fierce. Judges claimed

they would lose worshippers, West End theatre is worried about

audiences, and celebrities were concerned about the impact on staff.

At the centre of the row, council leader Colin Barrow, arguing the

charges were not a tax on nightlife but the best way to cut congestion.

But the High Court ruled in favour of campaigners, a green the plans

should face a judicial review. The charges, which would have come in

earlier this week, will now be postponed until after the Olympics

and the mayoral election. We are trying to manage the city, that is

a daily job, irrespective of any elections. It is much more

difficult during the Olympics, during the Diamond Jubilee, and

that is why we are deferring this until after that is out of the way.

Colin Barrow made his fortune in finance. His leadership of the

council got off to a rocky start. The authority had �17 million tied

up in Icelandic banks which collapsed. But he was quickly seen

as a dynamic figure, agreeing a radical plan to merge some services

with neighbouring Kensington and Chelsea, and Hammersmith councils.

But earlier this month Westminster faced fresh anger. Its decision to

paint double yellow lines on nearly 200 rose was branded cynical and

outrageous. Colin Barrow insists he is resigning for personal reasons,

but critics suggest in that the fury over parking charges has meant

his time is now up. Well, Colin Barrow is here with me

now. Clearly, your time is up, do is get too much for you? No. You

don't get into politics unless you have a certain toughness of mind. I

have been doing this for 15 years, and after four years running

Westminster, I felt it was time to move on. I took this decision six

months ago. I in fact delayed it in order to get his parking thing to

the point where it was going to be implemented, which was scheduled to

be in January. Now there is a pause, so I thought it was an opportunity

to step aside and said the public in another way. So we were not

standing down because of the mess that has been made of this parking

row? Absolutely. I'm not standing down because of parking at all. I'm

standing down because I have done what I came to do. I wanted to do

something about education and housing in the city, and I wanted

to do something about the public realm. We have done all those

things. This has market, it would be wrong to say that it had not,

and it has been controversial and difficult, but we make

controversial decisions every day in Westminster. This one just got a

bit noisier than most. You were originally just go to four years,

you have done that, but you say and said that he wanted to introduce

the parking charges, unpopular measure, some would say, as you

know, so your successor did not have to do it. You are doing the

opposite now, leaving in the middle of the row. No, there is a pause

while we wait for the Olympics and the paramedics to happen, and

during that pause we now need to pay attention to the wider economy

and put the parking into the context of the wider economy. One

of the things that the controversy has generated is... We have had to

do this on very narrow traffic management grounds, how many car

parking spaces, how much congestion, so one and so forth. What this

furore has persuaded us of is that the regulations that surround local

government need to force the wider economy... Do you still stand by

these proposals for these charges folly? There is no question that

the putting of these regulations in will improve congestion, and will

improve the turnover of spaces, and that will help business. It is a

yes. Yes. You claim you are not standing down because of that, you

stand four-square behind these proposals, so you expect the

proposals to going in six months or after the Olympics? You think your

successor will introduce them? is a matter for my successor. I

think that the council will pay a lot more attention to the economic

effects, business by business, street by street, line-by-line, and

we have been able to do while under the constraints that we are under.

I suspect that we will see whether being a free car park, having a

free car park in Westminster in the evening is essential to the

functioning of Westminster. I do not think it is. We do not have a

free car park during the day. It is just as busy in the evening. Let me

put it another way. Should your successor go ahead with these

changes? That is a matter for my successor. Should they? I think so.

I think it will be good for business. One million people, to

Westminster every day, and those people deserve to have a city that

is congestion three. How is it that so many people do not agree?

have heard from 10,000 people out of one million who use Westminster

every day. The people who take the trouble to write in are concerned

about it. We make hard decisions all the time on planning... Were

you surprised by the level of opposition? I think the scale did

surprise us. The noise did surprise us. I think that there was a small

number of people who were quite seriously affected, which are late-

night workers, the casino industry, in particular. One or two

particular businesses in a nightclub industry. But those

people were the ones most effective. How did the campaign take on such...

Are it was organised by people who paid for PRs. That is not to say

that it is not right. It was across the spectrum, people asking you not

to do it. What did Boris Johnson say you? Boris said to me I think

two years ago, I am not sure this is going to be very quiet, I think

people might not like it very much, but we undertook a complete review,

an enormous amount of research... What is he saying now? Recently, he

has got the mayoral election, so it is not surprising that the

candidates are going to join with the local newspaper and starts to

say... Do you think Boris Johnson would support plans after an

election? I don't know. I think if the economic work is done, which is

called for and which we have agreed to participate in, to show the

impact of this on the city, then I think we can convince him and a lot

of other people that while we can fix something about some of the

industry's specifically affected, the broad measure of getting

congestion down and getting traffic moving again will be more

successful. Mark Field is the local MP. You agree with his analysis?

His column right to put your constituents above London as a

whole? -- is Colin Wright? These are matters for Westminster City

Council, and I would not interfere with that. We all know that! I have

his say, I did not get many constituents writing to me, and I

did get some in favour of what was being proposed. Putting this into

context, put in terms of the congestion argument but also the

fact that up until the early 1990s there was not even a restriction on

Saturday afternoon parking, and at that juncture a lot of the retail

businesses who are complaining now were up in arms. I personally do

not necessarily agree in this regard, but I suspect that given

the furore and the strength of the campaign, I would be surprised...

Emily Thornberry? I think it is a mistake. 90% of the population

against it. Westminster has a difficult job in looking after

local residents, but central London belongs to all of us, and that is

what people did not like. They did not like being excluded from the

city that is ours. And this relationship, because of where

Westminster is, you are with more responsibility, wider than just

your residence. Let me finish with a successful businessman... People

regard you as being innovative in local government, you are going to

be remembered, forever tarnished by this controversy and how you made a

terrible error of judgment, aren't you? The political graveyard is

full of people trying to rescue their... Except that. What I think

I will be remembered for, and Westminster will be remembered for

his continuing to make difficult decisions in improving educational

standards, improving planning, improving the city environment,

fixing housing. That is at the centre of a major capital city, and

I think I can hold my head up high about that. This has been a

difficult period. But it is not the reason for my stepping down. Very

briefly. In terms of the legacy, the revolutionary work we have done

in our family's policy, which the government are taking on board,

What else has been happening in the City this week? Here is an idea in

Perhaps a case of a bridge too far as the mayor announces two new

crossings for London, in the form of a ferry and tunnel, both planned

for completion in the next 10 years. The Cabinet met at the Olympic

village to trumpet and on budget and on schedule games. The high-

speed rail link from London to Birmingham was given the green

light with important concessions made. Three miles of extra tunnels

in the capital and thousands of new jobs promised. In Haringey parent

protest and Michael Gove's plan to force a primary school into

becoming an Academy provoked a sharp reaction from the Secretary

of State. It is time we call the arguments what they are, ideals.

The same old ideology of failure and mediocrity. They knew met

Commissioner announced a stop to some surges as the controversial

policy looks set to be overhauled and some uses for the tactic

barracks better to be halved. are expected to be halved. Could it

become a cause for concern that young people were complaining about

it? -- about stop-and-search? think people are affronted by it

because they think immediately people think they have done

something wrong. We had a time in Islington when we had all those

terrible stabbings where there was a spreading hysteria, people were

scared and said they were arming themselves because they were scared

and because other people -- because of other people. The police stepped

in and searched everyone in the area and they did it in a way that

was polite, explained what was going on, caused very little

trouble and I spoke to a number of teenagers who said they were

reassured of the police had stepped in. But this assurance from the Met,

which has been given, let's face it, welcome to you as well? -- is this.

After the riots of last summer and the verdict of the Stephen Lawrence

murder cases has become much more high-profile and sensitive where

there is a race elegant -- element to stop and search. What about

academies? Andrew was asking Michael Gove about this earlier,

how come if he is meant to be allowing teachers and parents to

decide, he is forcing schools to become academies? I look at my own

patch in a Pimlico school where there was a farce over trade unions

and governors and that Academy has been in place for a few years, it

has been a big success. The great strength of Michael Gove's strategy

has been that he has built on what the Labour government have done. We

had an acceleration of academies but rather than seeing himself as a

revolutionary... But has it taken it in the direction you would have

liked? He is saying to people I know better than teachers, parents,

people on the ground and I will enforce this on you. If he was

being fair about it, what about all the schools in Surrey that are

doing worse? Before you can debate this I am going to have to cut you

So Ed Miliband and Ed Balls have had a busy few days trying to

invigorate Labour fortunes, the latest effort being the interview

with Andrew Marr this morning. With the state of the polls and

shortening odds, questions about Ed Miliband's leadership seems certain

to remain centre-stage in the Joining us this week and every

Sunday are our political panel. The best and brightest of a new

generation of commentators. Welcome, team. Ed Miliband has had a tough

week, does he start the week better than he does last week. He starts

with a fiscal policy which is more credible than it was last week. But

there is a danger of exaggerating how far Labour has moved on all of

this. They are not acknowledging the previous Labour government

spent too much before the crash, and they are not saying George

Osborne's cuts are proceeding too They are indicating that the future

Labour government, where it collected in 2015, would not

reverse the cuts that have already occurred, which would go some way

to addressing voters' concerns about their credibility. I think I

knew that already. When people like me into the Labour politicians and

they say we are opposed to that cat and I say we you restore it if you

were in power after 2015 they quite rightly say too soon to say, we

have to see the books. So I am not sure this is a change in the policy.

You are right, it is not. They have always said this government is

cutting too fast and too quickly. But the problem Labour had for

quite a time was they were not being specific on what they would

do differ me so we are starting to see now a set of policies as this

is specifically what we are doing, so what you saw this week was to

Murphy saying we do �5 billion worth of defence cuts, then Ed

Miliband saying the same, then to the left of the party, Ed Balls and

acknowledging that. That was a team effort to say our position has not

changed but here are the specifics you need to know we will be

credible going forward. I think he starts this week significantly

worse off than he did last week. Last week was supposed to be this

great relaunch, the big build up, we were told it would be co-

ordinated, well thought through and actually at the end of the week the

polls look practically worse for Ed Miliband, even in the paper today

we showed Labour supporters are turning away from him, apparently

even Nick Clegg is more popular. I think he has 18 months to sorted

out. He has the Parliamentary Labour Party meeting tomorrow as

well. I wonder if people care about policy at the moment. I would

suggest the problem is not policy, the problem is Ed Miliband. I agree.

He has two problems of which I think cannot be fixed. The less

important one is the fact his fiscal policy for the time being

lacks support amongst voters. But the more fundamental problem is

that he has never really persuaded voters he is a plausible prime

minister. Something about the way he is is not prime-ministerial.

That is not fixable. Is he running out of time to change that? I don't

think so. He needs to step up the pace. But it is interesting, have

you ever been alone with Ed Miliband in a room, or with a small

group, he has a kind of charisma, warmth and gravity that is easy to

translate in a small room of people, but he is not getting through on a

bigger stage. I was told that years ago about Ted Heath, that in a

small room he was fine. The problem is we cannot will get into that

room! You have seen glimpses of it already, like when he took on

Murdoch, but it has had to translate it so it is every day.

has plenty of time. There is no point installing a new leader now.

That will not happen. The problem is people are talking about it so

there is a discussion under way about who would be best, a lot of

talk about the vet Cooper, of course there is no point putting

someone in now because it will give them too much time to disappoint.

On to Scotland... The Westminster try to do towards the referendum

being headed up by George Osborne and Danny Alexander -- strategy. Do

they know what they're doing? not think their intervention will

do much other than provoke hostility not of the border from

nationalists. Alex Salmond is playing a canny game in that sense.

What could they have done as alternative? There is no way the UK

prime minister can absent himself from the field of play on a

question about that. That is why he made the intervention and many say

he should have done it earlier. Having done it and entered the fray,

do they know what they're doing? The Unionist case is quite strong.

Alex Salmond is a great political tactician, he is increasingly a

good first minister when it comes to running Scotland. But the

practical obstacles to Scottish independence are so fundamental

that you cannot get through them with tactics. David Cameron is

working a delicate game here because he has one Conservative MP

in Scotland and they will probably go down, also the Lib Dems are not

popular there, so really the people who have to be leading this is

Labour setting the played here and Alistair Darling would be very good.

I tried to get him to sign on today but he still seems unclear if it is

what he wants to do. The problem is what do they do next? I do not

think they have to do a lot. It is all unravelling quickly. I grew up

in Scotland, lived there for 26 years, started my career reporting

at Hollyrood, I had no idea Alex Salmond planned to join the Euro.

This is a giant con. Most people had no idea has gone and that was

the policy, now within a few days he has changed it and the focus is

on joining the sterling. The press coverage has been about Thatcherite

Tory intervention. So predictable. But I was up there this week and I

had a sense that for the first time Alex Salmond had met somebody his

own size and was a bit on the back foot. The intriguing thing about

Cameron and Alex Salmond is in their own respective nations they

face no equal. Only in each other do they face the worthy rival. It

is not just David Cameron, it is George Osborne behind-the-scenes

doing the political thinking. And it is a fair number of Scots down

here who can be the face and voice of the Unionist campaign in the way

that Cameron and Osborne cannot. looks like it is a united front

when it comes to Scotland and dealing with the nationals.

Absolutely. They will have to help Labour's campaign, they are the

only party that can do it. It can't be an Englishman, or Gordon Brown.

A exactly. It does not leave many. -- exactly. He is a credible, a

respected politician in a at a Reina but this will have to be

cross-border and cross-party otherwise it will not work. -- in

that arena. My final word would be keep George Osborne out of Scotland

because he would be a recruiting influence. And Lord Forsyth. Do you

think Alistair Darling will step up in the end? He would be very good

at the job and this is all about Alex Salmond. He is a giant among

political pygmies up there, let's put a match up against him. That is