Browse content similar to 27/05/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, folks. Welcome to Sunday Politics. | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
Labour is riding high in the polls and after more bad economic news | :00:45. | :00:48. | |
this week, the opposition is catching up on the key question for | :00:48. | :00:52. | |
voters: which party can best run the economy? But can Labour | :00:52. | :00:56. | |
convince a sceptical business community that it's friend, not foe. | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
Shadow Business Secretary Chuka Umunna thinks so and he joins us | :00:58. | :01:04. | |
for the Sunday Interview. Last night, Britons cast their | :01:04. | :01:09. | |
votes and had their say on Europe. But could we soon be voting on a | :01:09. | :01:12. | |
more profound issue than who should win the Eurovision Song Contest - | :01:12. | :01:14. | |
namely, whether Britain should leave the European Union all | :01:14. | :01:19. | |
together? UKIP's deputy leader and a former Europe Minister go head to | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
head on whether it's time to stay in Eurovision but walk away from | :01:22. | :01:27. | |
the EU. All that and the best political | :01:27. | :01:31. | |
panel in the business analysing the week ahead - expect a lot on the | :01:31. | :01:34. | |
Leveson inquiry and tweeting with the abandon of Jeremy Hunt on a | :01:34. | :01:44. | |
:01:44. | :01:45. | ||
The government says it is satisfied with measures taken since the 7th | :01:45. | :01:48. | |
July terror attack. We hear from others including survivors, who | :01:48. | :01:57. | |
All that between now and noon. But first, the news with Maxine | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
Mahwhinney. Good morning. The Conservative | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
party co-chairman, Lady Warsi, is facing questions about an expenses | :02:03. | :02:10. | |
claim for rental payments in London. The landlord told the Sunday Times | :02:10. | :02:15. | |
he didn't receive any money from her. Lady Warsi has said she paid a | :02:15. | :02:17. | |
friend who was renting the house. Our political correspondent, Terry | :02:17. | :02:23. | |
Stiastny, reports. The claims made against the | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
Conservative Party's co-chairman, Baroness Warsi, centre on the time | :02:27. | :02:31. | |
she spent staying at a flat in Acton in west London in 2008. Lady | :02:31. | :02:35. | |
Warsi said that although she mainly stayed at hotels in London, there | :02:35. | :02:38. | |
was a period of around six weeks when she spent occasional nights at | :02:38. | :02:42. | |
the flat. Lady Warsi did claim expenses for her overnight | :02:42. | :02:46. | |
accommodation during this period. At the time, peers were entitled to | :02:46. | :02:51. | |
claim up to �165 a night for staying in London. In a statement, | :02:51. | :03:01. | |
:03:01. | :03:02. | ||
However, the owner of the flat told The Sunday Times that he didn't | :03:02. | :03:12. | |
:03:12. | :03:15. | ||
An adviser to Baroness Warsi, who also stayed at the flat that time, | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
said Lady Warsi made a financial payment on each occasion which | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
compensated him. A Labour MP has called for the House of Lords | :03:23. | :03:27. | |
authorities to investigate further. More questions about expenses in | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
Westminster will bring back bad memories of the expenses crisis of | :03:30. | :03:40. | |
recent years. The United States has said | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
President Assad's "rule by murder and fear" in Syria must come to an | :03:43. | :03:48. | |
end. Yesterday, United Nations observers said more than 90 people | :03:48. | :03:52. | |
had been killed near Homs, 32 of them children under the age of ten. | :03:52. | :03:55. | |
The Foreign Secretary, William Hague, has summoned the charge | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
d'affaires to the Foreign Office and has called for energy meeting | :03:59. | :04:04. | |
of the Security Council. Campaigners opposed to a trial of | :04:04. | :04:06. | |
genetically modified wheat in Hertfordshire have been banned from | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
holding a rally at the test site because of concern that the crop | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
may be damaged. Opponents had been planning a day of action against | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
the experiment, but the Home Office authority obtained an order to ban | :04:15. | :04:20. | |
them from surrounding land. A rally is taking place in a park nearby. | :04:20. | :04:22. | |
Hundreds of households in the north-east of Scotland have been | :04:23. | :04:25. | |
asked to take measures to protect themselves against high levels of a | :04:26. | :04:28. | |
gas which has been linked to lung cancer. The Scottish Government | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
issued the warning after increased levels of radon were detected in | :04:31. | :04:34. | |
more than 800 properties in Aberdeenshire. | :04:34. | :04:44. | |
That's it. There's more news here on BBC One at 5:50pm. Andrew. | :04:44. | :04:47. | |
These are challenging times for the British economy, and the coalition | :04:47. | :04:50. | |
government is paying the price, with Labour now pulling away in the | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
opinion polls and Ed Miliband and Ed Balls catching up with David | :04:53. | :04:56. | |
Cameron and George Osborne when it comes to who voters most trust to | :04:56. | :04:59. | |
run the economy. But if Labour wants to make the issue their own | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
they could do with the endorsement of business, but that's a | :05:02. | :05:04. | |
relationship that has always been complicated. | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
Under Tony Blair, relations between New Labour and business were close. | :05:08. | :05:12. | |
Too close for many in his party. But Labour leader Ed Miliband has | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
signalled a very different approach with his talk of producers and | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
predators. Despite that rhetoric, chukka a mother has vowed to | :05:21. | :05:26. | |
rebuild Labour's relationship with business -- Chuka Umunna has vowed. | :05:26. | :05:30. | |
Promising to become their voice in opposition. What other big issues | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
that businesses face? The biggest is the state of the economy. We | :05:34. | :05:38. | |
learnt that it shrank by 0.3% in the first quarter, more than | :05:38. | :05:42. | |
previously thought. The IMF said the government's deficit reduction | :05:42. | :05:46. | |
plan had delivered substantial progress, and its head, Christine | :05:46. | :05:50. | |
Lagarde, said she looked back with horror at the state of the public | :05:50. | :05:57. | |
finances left by Labour. When I think back myself to May 2010, when | :05:57. | :06:02. | |
the UK deficit was at 11%, I tried to imagine what the situation would | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
be like today if no such fiscal consolidation programme had been | :06:06. | :06:12. | |
decided. I shiver. This week also saw the publication of the Beecroft | :06:12. | :06:17. | |
report, which recommended cutting employment regulation. An idea that | :06:17. | :06:21. | |
was backed by business but attacked by Labour. Government ministers | :06:21. | :06:25. | |
upset business leaders earlier this month by telling them to work | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
harder. Labour is hoping that this souring of relations presents an | :06:29. | :06:33. | |
opportunity for them to rebuild their own tattered relationship | :06:33. | :06:37. | |
with business. The Shadow Business Secretary Chuka Umunna joins us for | :06:37. | :06:47. | |
:06:47. | :06:51. | ||
Welcome. You admit Labour lost support of business at the last | :06:51. | :06:55. | |
election, you would like to win it back, naturally. On making it | :06:55. | :07:00. | |
easier to hire and fire people, you say that is a distraction. Almost | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
every business lobby in the country says the opposite. First of all, | :07:04. | :07:08. | |
let's be frank. Business doesn't necessarily speak with one voice on | :07:08. | :07:14. | |
all matters. For example a voice might be put up on BBC programmes, | :07:14. | :07:18. | |
but his experience might be different from small businesses in | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
my constituency. I used to practise as an employment lawyer before I | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
was elected. If you look at the proposals in that Beecroft report, | :07:26. | :07:30. | |
for example the one that has featured very strongly is this | :07:30. | :07:35. | |
proposal to allow employers to fire at will, that is something that the | :07:35. | :07:37. | |
British Chambers of Commerce has said this week they wouldn't want | :07:37. | :07:43. | |
to see. The real issue for many businesses... Let's look at what | :07:43. | :07:49. | |
the BCC said. They said Adrian Beecroft is right to point out that | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
at a time when millions of people are unemployed, ministers should be | :07:53. | :07:59. | |
looking for ways to make it easier, less costly to employ people. They | :07:59. | :08:03. | |
may not like everything but they are broadly in favour of it. What | :08:03. | :08:08. | |
we have argued for, in order to do that, is for a National Insurance | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
break for micro businesses. That is something that the Federation of | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
Small Businesses has argued strongly for. That would make a | :08:15. | :08:19. | |
difference when you are looking to grow your business and take a -- | :08:19. | :08:22. | |
take people on. If you look at the concerns that businesses have, I | :08:22. | :08:26. | |
don't deny that employment law is a concern. It would be remiss of me | :08:26. | :08:33. | |
to do that given my and experience. But a survey has been done, 51% | :08:33. | :08:40. | |
said the number of -- the lack of skills is their number one concern. | :08:40. | :08:44. | |
They don't run small businesses. Let's look at the Institute of | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
Directors. I don't think you can produce a single group that | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
represents business that supports your point of view. Beecroft's | :08:52. | :08:58. | |
recommendations are encouraging... They don't support you. I think it | :08:58. | :09:02. | |
is a load of nonsense. What he is saying? If you would let me get a | :09:02. | :09:06. | |
word in edgeways, to take one group and say they represent a whole of | :09:06. | :09:12. | |
business would be misleading. produced two. Well done. You name | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
one that supports your point of view. The British Chambers of | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
Commerce agrees with us that we should not be given employers have | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
the power to support -- to fire people at will. They want every | :09:22. | :09:27. | |
other part of Beecroft. The issue is not whether Beecroft is right or | :09:27. | :09:32. | |
wrong. The issue is that you cannot call on a single group representing | :09:32. | :09:36. | |
business that takes your point of view. Absolutely, I can. I have | :09:36. | :09:40. | |
always -- already cited the British Chambers of Commerce. The | :09:40. | :09:43. | |
Federation of Small Businesses has said it has grave concerns that if | :09:43. | :09:47. | |
you start setting up a two-tiered employment system, where you have | :09:47. | :09:50. | |
one set of laws for businesses with employees fewer than 10, and | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
another set of laws for everybody else, it would create a whole range | :09:54. | :09:57. | |
of uncertainty. To say that the Beecroft report commands the | :09:57. | :10:01. | |
support of the entire business community is simply wrong. If you | :10:01. | :10:06. | |
look at the ICAEW, a leading organisation in the business | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
community... The Institute of Chartered Accountants, which | :10:11. | :10:14. | |
advises businesses themselves. They have said the Beecroft report is | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
not the way to get the economy going. It is in the name of growth | :10:17. | :10:21. | |
that the government is backing this report. They are saying that but | :10:21. | :10:25. | |
for the employment law regime, we would not be in a recession. That | :10:25. | :10:29. | |
is basically Adrian Beecroft's argument. You have said yourself, I | :10:29. | :10:34. | |
was watching your sister programme, that the big issue is demand. That | :10:34. | :10:38. | |
is the reason that our businesses are not growing at the moment. | :10:38. | :10:43. | |
Richard Branson and ally for you? Richard Branson has argued in the | :10:43. | :10:47. | |
Observer interview that we should do something on National Insurance | :10:47. | :10:50. | |
to help micro and small businesses. That is something that we have been | :10:50. | :10:56. | |
arguing for. As I have said, I have not denied that at the 2010 general | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
election, Labour lost support in the business community, despite the | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
popularity of Peter Mandelson and Alistair Darling. This is what | :11:04. | :11:14. | |
Richard Branson actually said. You're not in favour of that. | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
relation to business rates, it is something we would have to make a | :11:18. | :11:20. | |
decision on if and when we got back into government because we would | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
need to see the state of the public finances. On regulation, one of the | :11:24. | :11:27. | |
things that the government has done is that it extended the primary | :11:27. | :11:30. | |
authority scheme, which helps reduce the regulatory burden for | :11:30. | :11:35. | |
businesses at a local level. If you have a business that spans three | :11:35. | :11:40. | |
local authorities, you would have had to have dealt with all three | :11:40. | :11:42. | |
and relation to different rules and regulations enforcement. We have | :11:42. | :11:49. | |
set up a system which the government -- which looks to cover | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
more businesses, which means you have a lead authority that you deal | :11:52. | :11:56. | |
with. That was to bring down regulation. I don't deny we should | :11:56. | :11:59. | |
look to reduce regulatory burden where we can, but I don't think we | :11:59. | :12:02. | |
should be watering down a fundamental basic rights of | :12:02. | :12:08. | |
everybody watching this programme in the name of growth. There is no | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
economic or emperor call data to show that would get our economy | :12:11. | :12:17. | |
going again. Sir Richard Branson is wrong? In an interview today he | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
will say he is broadly supportive of Beecroft. If that is what he has | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
said, and I haven't had the privilege of listening to his | :12:24. | :12:29. | |
comments... You haven't had his support either. I do not agree that | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
the Beecroft report is the way to go to get growth going in our | :12:33. | :12:38. | |
economy. Andrew Adonis has been brought back into upon a duster | :12:38. | :12:44. | |
will be -- to help on industrial policy. He has said that the third | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
runway at Heathrow is economic self-mutilation. In government we | :12:48. | :12:52. | |
promoted and supported the third runway. You are against it now. | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
are looking at the feet of aviation generally in the south-east, in the | :12:56. | :13:00. | |
context of our overall policy review. You are against the third | :13:00. | :13:03. | |
from a? At the moment, we are looking at what we should be doing | :13:03. | :13:09. | |
in the south-east. Are you against the third runway? We are looking at | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
it in the context of our overall policy review, that is the answer | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
to the question. Everybody gets fixated on the third runway. Even | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
if we had one at Heathrow, we are likely to reach capacity there | :13:20. | :13:26. | |
fairly quickly. So we do need a solution in the south-east. | :13:27. | :13:31. | |
supported by the CBI, the IoD, Unite and the GMB union. And you | :13:31. | :13:36. | |
are against it? I have just said, we are looking at it in the context | :13:36. | :13:39. | |
of our policy review. One of the things that we have offered, and it | :13:40. | :13:44. | |
goes to a big point of contention with politics in general, is that | :13:44. | :13:47. | |
we often talk about the need to move away from quarterly capitalism, | :13:47. | :13:51. | |
to move away from making decisions in the short term and having | :13:52. | :13:55. | |
decisions made in the long term. We as politicians are often the | :13:55. | :14:00. | |
obstacle, because we have election titles and a change of government. | :14:00. | :14:04. | |
One of the things we have said on aviation policy, it will involve | :14:04. | :14:08. | |
long-term decisions for business generally, let us work with you to | :14:08. | :14:12. | |
come up with a long-term solution to our aviation challenge going | :14:12. | :14:16. | |
forward, so that we can provide business with a long-term policy | :14:16. | :14:20. | |
setting they need to have the competence to invest. A lot of | :14:20. | :14:24. | |
policy uncertainty created in aviation but also in areas like low | :14:24. | :14:28. | |
carbon and energy throws a lot of uncertainty over a policy area | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
which discourages the private sector from investing. That is one | :14:32. | :14:35. | |
of the very big problems at the moment. You have also got problems | :14:35. | :14:41. | |
on the deficit. Ed Balls tried to make out that the IMF had been | :14:41. | :14:44. | |
supporting Labour's position but you know that is not true. Let's | :14:44. | :14:54. | |
:14:54. | :15:00. | ||
look at what the IMF has been Let's look at what the OECD has | :15:00. | :15:10. | |
:15:10. | :15:20. | ||
You are not going to get Christine Lagarde making strident comments | :15:20. | :15:23. | |
about government policy given the George Osborne sponsored has the | :15:23. | :15:28. | |
position. Let's look at what she has said. She said to have a | :15:28. | :15:32. | |
credible fiscal policy, you need growth and we have not seen growth | :15:32. | :15:38. | |
for a long time in this country. Last year the IMF forecast was 2.3% | :15:38. | :15:44. | |
and now they are forecasting 0.8%. If we carry on on the current | :15:44. | :15:49. | |
trajectory, in a recession at the moment, it is questionable that we | :15:49. | :15:54. | |
will even reach 0.8%, so we have a government that said their policies | :15:54. | :15:59. | |
would get growth going again but actually we are in a recession... | :15:59. | :16:02. | |
But if Christine Lagarde is in the pockets of the Chancellor and | :16:03. | :16:08. | |
unreliable, why did Ed Balls claimed she was supporting Labour's | :16:08. | :16:13. | |
policy of or fiscal stimulus? Because her deputy said that | :16:13. | :16:17. | |
cutting temporarily VAT would be one of the ways to get growth going | :16:17. | :16:27. | |
:16:27. | :16:28. | ||
again. But she said it should be fourth in line of the new policies | :16:28. | :16:33. | |
to be considered. The IMF have not said to do it now. Your policy says | :16:33. | :16:39. | |
to do it now. You are not going to get Christine Lagarde unhelpful to | :16:39. | :16:44. | |
George Osborne... So she is only saying these things, the comment | :16:44. | :16:49. | |
that she shivered about your deficit, because she is in the | :16:49. | :16:53. | |
Chancellor's pockets. government is going to be borrowing | :16:53. | :16:57. | |
more than Alastair Darling would have been under his deficit | :16:57. | :17:02. | |
reduction plan. But she shivered at the deficit reduction plan. Is she | :17:02. | :17:06. | |
saying that because she is a propagandist for the Chancellor? | :17:06. | :17:11. | |
I am not saying that. But you have to look at what she says in context | :17:11. | :17:17. | |
of her relationship with the government. There are mixed views | :17:17. | :17:22. | |
from economists. Many of them got it wrong. When the government | :17:22. | :17:24. | |
announced the Comprehensive Spending Review, many economists | :17:24. | :17:27. | |
talk that would be the best thing to get growth going again and now | :17:27. | :17:32. | |
we are back in recession. You cannot look at Christine Lagarde | :17:32. | :17:38. | |
and say she is an oracle. So why did Ed Balls claimed that she was | :17:38. | :17:45. | |
on sight? It wasn't true! Well, she has said we need growth for a | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
credible fiscal policy and to that extent there is the agreement, and | :17:49. | :17:54. | |
people in the IMF have said we need to look to stimulus measures. | :17:54. | :17:59. | |
Either what she says matters or it doesn't. Of course it matters but | :17:59. | :18:05. | |
she is not the only person that matters. Are you in a position to | :18:05. | :18:11. | |
name a predator company? No. Why? If you let me answer the question, | :18:11. | :18:17. | |
it wasn't about going around and labelling companies good or bad and | :18:17. | :18:23. | |
predators or producers. He did! he did not. We want to promote good | :18:23. | :18:27. | |
business practice. Things which are innovative, things that value | :18:27. | :18:31. | |
people that work in the companies, the companies that look to resolve | :18:31. | :18:37. | |
the inevitable difficulties... said some companies are predators. | :18:37. | :18:42. | |
Can you still not name what he meant by that? That is not what he | :18:42. | :18:47. | |
was saying in his comments. What other kinds of business practices | :18:47. | :18:52. | |
that will get the economy going again? What companies that are | :18:52. | :19:00. | |
successful and producing...? right. We have a grubbing middle- | :19:00. | :19:07. | |
class. Before we run out of time. A one to ask you about Baroness Farsi. | :19:07. | :19:12. | |
Will Labour make a big deal about this? -- I want to ask you about | :19:12. | :19:17. | |
Baroness Warsi. This is not something that any politician from | :19:17. | :19:21. | |
any party can crow about. When you see these types of stories, it is | :19:21. | :19:29. | |
bad for politics, generally. I am not happy to see this and I am | :19:29. | :19:34. | |
surprised. In order to rebuild trust, there has to be a proper | :19:35. | :19:38. | |
independent investigation because so long as the stories endure, we | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
are going to struggle to rebuild the trust and confidence that we | :19:42. | :19:46. | |
need there to be between Westminster and the people. That is | :19:46. | :19:51. | |
incredibly important. Chuka Umunna, thank you for being with us on a | :19:51. | :19:57. | |
Sunday morning when we should all be in the park! Thank you. Now, | :19:57. | :19:59. | |
last night's Eurovision Song Contest might have proved, yet | :19:59. | :20:02. | |
again, that the rest of Europe isn't exactly crazy about us, but | :20:02. | :20:06. | |
how do we feel about them? It has been almost 40 years since the | :20:06. | :20:09. | |
British people were asked to vote on the question, but there are | :20:09. | :20:11. | |
signs that chance might come again, with Tory backbenchers calling for | :20:12. | :20:14. | |
a referendum on our future membership of the European Union | :20:14. | :20:18. | |
and even Labour said to be considering one. Giles Dilnot has | :20:18. | :20:24. | |
been beside the seaside to find out more. | :20:24. | :20:27. | |
We British, islanders, have always fluctuated, like the waves, over | :20:27. | :20:31. | |
our relationship with those across the Channel. Although wanting us to | :20:31. | :20:33. | |
immerse ourselves deeper into Europe, or get out completely, has | :20:34. | :20:39. | |
been considered the extremes. But now with all this euro turbulence, | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
if it is hard to work out if more people want out, it is easier to | :20:43. | :20:51. | |
prove more would like a say. And while everyone is napping, could be | :20:51. | :20:56. | |
tide had turned enough that now is the moment that one political party | :20:56. | :21:00. | |
seizes the initiative and says "we are the one that will offer the | :21:00. | :21:09. | |
British people a vote on Enid or out of Europe"? -- in or out. | :21:09. | :21:11. | |
A pebble's throw from Southend, in Thurrock, 46,000 people responded | :21:11. | :21:14. | |
to a people's pledge vote in a turn-out higher than local | :21:14. | :21:22. | |
elections. 90% wanted a referendum. That experience proves to me that | :21:22. | :21:25. | |
the first party leader in this country with the coverage and | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
enough respect of the British people to come out now for a | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
referendum will enjoy it electoral rewards now. But party leaders | :21:34. | :21:40. | |
coming after run the risk of looking opportunist and cynical. | :21:41. | :21:43. | |
Inside the sealed bubble of Westminster, politicians may not | :21:43. | :21:47. | |
have heard such message or they're happy tuning it out. The problem | :21:47. | :21:50. | |
with a polarised referendum is that the vast majority of people are | :21:50. | :21:54. | |
somewhere in the middle and do not get given the option they want. | :21:54. | :21:58. | |
They are forced to choose between these two extremes, cutting off | :21:58. | :22:04. | |
from Europe or going for a rush into more integration. That is not | :22:04. | :22:08. | |
what the majority of people want and so it is not the right question. | :22:08. | :22:12. | |
But Labour may be able to bask in considerable Tory discomfort if | :22:12. | :22:19. | |
they are promised such a polls. There would be advantage for Labour | :22:19. | :22:22. | |
in the splitting the Conservative Party but surely the main point is | :22:22. | :22:26. | |
what is in the best interests of the country, and if we are going to | :22:26. | :22:31. | |
have a vote on Europe at some stage, which I think we probably will, it | :22:32. | :22:36. | |
has got to be a considered debate and it has got to be on the | :22:36. | :22:43. | |
question of where Europe is at the time, and the end of all of this | :22:43. | :22:48. | |
euro turbulence. Over time, they have endlessly | :22:48. | :22:55. | |
talked about. It is 37 years since we were asked what we thought, fast | :22:55. | :22:58. | |
forward to today and suddenly we the public may have to think about | :22:58. | :23:01. | |
our answer. And deputy leader of UKIP Paul | :23:01. | :23:04. | |
Nuttall and former Europe Minister Denis MacShane join us to debate | :23:04. | :23:12. | |
the question. Europe. In or out? Paul Nuttall, why do you want to | :23:12. | :23:19. | |
lead the EU? It is a bureaucratic mess, it is expensive. -- leave the | :23:19. | :23:25. | |
EU. We cannot control our borders. I want Britain to be an independent | :23:25. | :23:32. | |
nation that looks to the Globe, not just to Europe. It is our biggest | :23:32. | :23:39. | |
trading partner. I am very keen on a referendum that we stay out of | :23:39. | :23:44. | |
the Eurovision Song Contest! I would vote to withdraw, I think! | :23:44. | :23:50. | |
What is the answer to his point? are lots of international | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
organisations and if we have a referendum, I think we will vote to | :23:54. | :23:57. | |
stay in but it will not solve anything because we are bitterly | :23:57. | :24:01. | |
divided in Europe, like in the 19th century we were divided on free | :24:01. | :24:05. | |
trade and the Irish question, and it is a fault-line on British | :24:05. | :24:10. | |
politics, and if I thought a referendum would solve anything... | :24:10. | :24:15. | |
What is the substance? He says we will be better off out of Europe. | :24:15. | :24:19. | |
He says we will concentrate on trading with emerging markets. | :24:19. | :24:25. | |
terrific idea but Belgian exports more than we do to India. The | :24:25. | :24:30. | |
eurozone as a whole has a balance of trade surplus. They look at us | :24:30. | :24:36. | |
and see a country without any growth, in recession, huge balance | :24:36. | :24:40. | |
of trade and debt problems, and they would like Britain to be more | :24:40. | :24:44. | |
like some of the eurozone countries who are performing their wealth. | :24:44. | :24:50. | |
Wouldn't we end up in splendid isolation if we were to leave? | :24:50. | :24:54. | |
We are the 7th largest economy in the world. I want us to look | :24:54. | :25:01. | |
towards Australia, Canada, India, the big emerging nations with fast | :25:01. | :25:05. | |
growing economies. Not within the European Union, which is a | :25:05. | :25:10. | |
bureaucratic mess, overseeing a currency that is falling apart. | :25:10. | :25:18. | |
Look, let's be very clear. We do 1.4% of our trade with India. We | :25:18. | :25:24. | |
export more to Ireland! He says we should do more! I am all for that. | :25:24. | :25:29. | |
William Hague has and the last two years banging the drum for UK trade | :25:29. | :25:34. | |
anywhere except in Europe and actually our trade with the outside | :25:34. | :25:38. | |
world is coming down. I am not against it. Joe Johnson, a | :25:38. | :25:43. | |
Conservative MP, wrote a good pamphlet a few days ago and he said, | :25:43. | :25:48. | |
Britain is far behind the rest of Europe in terms of export and trade | :25:48. | :25:52. | |
promotion and the idea that quitting Europe will open a sop to | :25:52. | :25:58. | |
marvellous trade opportunities is not realistic -- will open us up. | :25:58. | :26:02. | |
Her we have connections with these countries. We have economic, | :26:02. | :26:06. | |
business and linguistic connections and we are missing a fantastic | :26:06. | :26:11. | |
opportunity by tying ourselves to the slowest growing economic block | :26:11. | :26:17. | |
on the planet. Wouldn't we end up being like Norway? You are not part | :26:17. | :26:20. | |
of the decision-making process but you have to implement most of what | :26:20. | :26:26. | |
the EU says. Not necessarily. We want to be friends with our | :26:26. | :26:30. | |
European partners and a free trade deal will be on the table. 3 | :26:30. | :26:34. | |
million jobs in this country are dependent on our membership of the | :26:35. | :26:41. | |
EU. But 12 million jobs on the Continent are dependent on jobs in | :26:41. | :26:48. | |
the UK! That is as silly argument. Take Norway. Nor which implements | :26:48. | :26:57. | |
more EU directives than we do! Take Switzerland. Switzerland... I love | :26:57. | :27:00. | |
it when Paul Nuttall and Nigel Farage talk about trading with | :27:00. | :27:03. | |
India and Pakistan and the rest of it but they are all for keeping | :27:03. | :27:07. | |
these people out of the UK and you cannot be so unpleasant about | :27:07. | :27:11. | |
foreigners in Britain and then say, but we would love to increase trade | :27:11. | :27:15. | |
with these other countries. You cannot be open to business and | :27:15. | :27:21. | |
closed to foreigners, which is your policy. We cannot have open-door | :27:21. | :27:25. | |
immigration. In a time of recession... Let's stick to the | :27:25. | :27:30. | |
European Union. Isn't it the factor that he might get his way? If the | :27:30. | :27:36. | |
eurozone becomes a fiscal union, it will become much more tightly | :27:36. | :27:40. | |
integrated. We will not be part of that and we will effectively be | :27:40. | :27:45. | |
more outside. We might be more marginalised, I do accept that and | :27:45. | :27:51. | |
I do worried. If we have and in or out referendum, fine. What would we | :27:51. | :27:58. | |
lose? We would lose that position we had for a good number of years, | :27:58. | :28:03. | |
been in there fighting for as hard as we can to maintain some open and | :28:03. | :28:10. | |
liberal policies. For example, when our beef was safe after mad cow | :28:10. | :28:15. | |
disease, only the EU would excepted. Canada and Australia would not. | :28:15. | :28:23. | |
Hong Kong, our colony, said you must be joking, British beef. | :28:23. | :28:28. | |
are staying in Europe for mad cow disease? Do not be flippant about | :28:28. | :28:31. | |
our Cultural Industry. It is important for our farmers that we | :28:31. | :28:35. | |
can export. I think British agricultural exports would come to | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
a halt, as a small example. Should we put that to the people rather | :28:39. | :28:47. | |
than commit in or out? There may be different terms. We tried to | :28:47. | :28:53. | |
renegotiate for many years. I think this is not able to be reformed. | :28:53. | :28:58. | |
The last time we had a referendum on this was in 1975 and you voted | :28:58. | :29:03. | |
on trade. You both may have voted but I was not even born. What gives | :29:03. | :29:08. | |
the generation above the right to have a say on this issue but not my | :29:08. | :29:13. | |
generation? Yes or no, who would win? I think faced with isolating | :29:13. | :29:19. | |
ourselves completely, even some of the right wing press would say this | :29:20. | :29:27. | |
is insanity. I asked for yes or no as. OK! I think the British people | :29:27. | :29:30. | |
would let us come out, I think the British people are firmly of that | :29:30. | :29:33. | |
belief at the moment. Thank you both. | :29:33. | :29:37. | |
It's approaching 11.30am. You're watching the Sunday Politics. | :29:37. | :29:40. | |
Coming up in 20 minutes I'll be looking at the week ahead with our | :29:40. | :29:50. | |
:29:50. | :29:52. | ||
political panel. Until then, the Hello and welcome from us. As the | :29:52. | :29:56. | |
government says it is satisfied with how it responded to issues | :29:56. | :30:00. | |
raised by the 7/7 terror attack inquest, some survivors tell us why | :30:00. | :30:05. | |
not enough has been done. Joining us for the next 20 minutes, | :30:05. | :30:08. | |
Labour MP and former Home Office Minister Meg Hillier, and Simon | :30:08. | :30:11. | |
Hughes, deputy leader of the Democrats. | :30:11. | :30:14. | |
First of, we are looking at migration and the changing face of | :30:14. | :30:19. | |
London. Latest figures show that net inward immigration to the UK of | :30:19. | :30:23. | |
250,000 a year. The capital has been the main point of entry for | :30:23. | :30:26. | |
new arrivals and latest figures show that the number of babies born | :30:26. | :30:31. | |
in London to mothers from overseas is that a record high. What are the | :30:31. | :30:36. | |
implications of that? Latest government figures show that | :30:36. | :30:40. | |
over half the babies born in London in 2010 have mothers from outside | :30:40. | :30:44. | |
the UK. Double the rate seen across the rest of England and Wales. In | :30:44. | :30:47. | |
Newham, over three quarters of babies were born to mothers from | :30:47. | :30:53. | |
overseas, the highest rate in the country. Brent, Westminster and | :30:53. | :30:57. | |
Kensington and Chelsea all follow closely behind. Of all the brothers | :30:57. | :31:01. | |
-- babies born to foreign mothers, the most came from Poland, a change | :31:01. | :31:05. | |
from Pakistan which had the most foreign mothers giving birth in the | :31:05. | :31:10. | |
UK between 2000, and 2009. A brief snapshot there. Joining us | :31:10. | :31:18. | |
from Leeds, a representative from the think tank, migration UK. What | :31:18. | :31:24. | |
is your reaction to figures showing 50% of new berths are from -- to | :31:24. | :31:30. | |
mothers from other countries. know that the vast majority of | :31:30. | :31:33. | |
mothers had to London. I think the previous government loosened | :31:33. | :31:37. | |
controls to such an extent that we have seen a high at -- sharp | :31:37. | :31:42. | |
increase in net migration, from 50,000 in the mid-90s to what we | :31:42. | :31:47. | |
see today, a staggering 252,000. That is an extraordinary figure | :31:47. | :31:51. | |
which is illustrating the pace of change that we are having to cope | :31:51. | :31:58. | |
with in London. Does it matter? celebrate cultural diversity, we | :31:58. | :32:01. | |
are a welcoming community, a welcoming country. But the change | :32:01. | :32:05. | |
is taking place at such a pace that it is adding pressure and a burden | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
on services such as housing, schools and the NHS. More | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
importantly, I think integration. Integration is key to the community | :32:13. | :32:17. | |
spirit and to success within our whole community. It is much more | :32:17. | :32:22. | |
difficult with this large-scale immigration taking place. Former | :32:22. | :32:27. | |
Home Secretary Alan Johnson said this week, that under Labour or the | :32:27. | :32:32. | |
last year of Labour, they had got the figure down to 160,000. It is | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
250,000 now and going up, who is right and wrong here? What is the | :32:36. | :32:41. | |
present government doing? This government is doing, has put in | :32:41. | :32:46. | |
some tighter controls but it must fulfil its promise to take net | :32:46. | :32:50. | |
migration down from the hundreds of thousands, to the tens of thousands. | :32:50. | :32:55. | |
We have to be much tighter and have more effective measures. We need to | :32:55. | :32:58. | |
ensure that individuals are not abusing legitimate entry routes | :32:58. | :33:02. | |
into this country. We should continue to welcome professionals | :33:02. | :33:05. | |
and genuine students who wish to study and then leave the country. | :33:05. | :33:11. | |
But whom would also look at illegal immigration and ensure that any | :33:11. | :33:14. | |
illegal immigrant is sent back to their country. You won't need | :33:14. | :33:18. | |
reminding that it was under Labour that we lost control. I would | :33:18. | :33:21. | |
dispute that but if we look at the numbers, and we have heard some | :33:21. | :33:25. | |
figures talked about, there is a culture of population across the | :33:25. | :33:32. | |
what, a whole changing wake -- across the world, a-changing way | :33:32. | :33:39. | |
that people move around. The fact it is Polish women in the majority | :33:39. | :33:43. | |
reflects a different pattern of migration. A lot of Brits go abroad, | :33:43. | :33:47. | |
to Europe, and live and work and study there. We're not living in | :33:47. | :33:50. | |
the world of 20 years ago, we are living in a world where we have a | :33:50. | :33:54. | |
lot more movement. I think this reflects that, partly. Do you have | :33:54. | :34:00. | |
no concerns with that figure, at 56% are born to people that just a | :34:00. | :34:05. | |
generation ago were mothers who lived elsewhere? It is partly | :34:05. | :34:09. | |
looking at London and it is a point that has been made, a lot of people | :34:09. | :34:16. | |
moved to London. In my borough in Hackney, over 50% of births were to | :34:16. | :34:19. | |
foreign mothers. We are very young Borough, the average age is 32, | :34:20. | :34:23. | |
about a quarter of residents are under the age of 60. These people | :34:23. | :34:26. | |
will be paying the pensions of the rest of Britain in the future, and | :34:26. | :34:32. | |
are vital to the life blood of our economy. Simon Hughes, in a similar | :34:32. | :34:36. | |
inner-city constituency, are their issues, are there cultural issues, | :34:36. | :34:39. | |
particularly the needs of populations here, which impact on | :34:39. | :34:45. | |
public service? Of course there are. If the population goes up greatly, | :34:45. | :34:48. | |
and the population of London has been going up significantly for | :34:48. | :34:53. | |
years, and will go on going up, then of course, the capital city | :34:53. | :34:57. | |
takes the most pressure and we have to deal with that. The pressure | :34:57. | :35:00. | |
points for made have always been providing enough affordable housing. | :35:00. | :35:05. | |
We are desperately short. It is not a single party blame issue, it is a | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
legacy of governments over the years, we don't have enough | :35:08. | :35:12. | |
affordable housing. There is not as much pressure in some areas. The | :35:12. | :35:16. | |
NHS has coped quite well. In some areas there are pressures on | :35:16. | :35:22. | |
privates -- primary schools. We can be tough on immigration, I have | :35:22. | :35:25. | |
always taken the view that we should not be part of an agreement | :35:25. | :35:32. | |
and we should have our own controls. We should be tough in relation to | :35:32. | :35:35. | |
immigration. I was critical of one decision of the last government, | :35:35. | :35:40. | |
which David Blunkett to, which did not faze him the time that the | :35:40. | :35:45. | |
Eastern European countries are allowed people in. I said there | :35:45. | :35:50. | |
could be very large numbers of people coming, the predictions were | :35:50. | :35:55. | |
miles out, I think we had 10 times as many. The benefit is that we are | :35:55. | :35:59. | |
a culturally diverse city. It has huge benefits in terms of links | :35:59. | :36:02. | |
with the world. Many of the people from Commonwealth countries, where | :36:02. | :36:07. | |
we went and settled there... With probably any won the Olympics | :36:07. | :36:12. | |
because we are the sort of mixed city that we are. Two points. The | :36:12. | :36:17. | |
largest number are Polish mothers, you can't restrict that now with | :36:17. | :36:21. | |
the free movement in Europe. But you can't put this back in the box, | :36:21. | :36:26. | |
it is something that has happened. It is built into London's | :36:26. | :36:30. | |
infrastructure. We can't restrict the Polish, that's fine. But we can | :36:30. | :36:36. | |
have tighter measures. This figure of 250,000 is too high and we are | :36:36. | :36:39. | |
looking to the coalition government to deliver and fulfil its price of | :36:39. | :36:44. | |
reducing this to the tens of thousands. Thank you for joining us. | :36:44. | :36:49. | |
After the inquest last year into the July 7th a terrorist attack of | :36:49. | :36:52. | |
2005, the coroner made a number of recommendations for future | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
improvements. The government published a progress report this | :36:56. | :36:59. | |
month saying it was satisfied with what had been done. Others | :36:59. | :37:04. | |
including some survivors say they are not so pleased. | :37:04. | :37:08. | |
The air ambulance was used to ferry teams of specialist trauma doctors | :37:08. | :37:12. | |
above the congested streets, to the bomb sites. We provided multiple | :37:13. | :37:18. | |
teams, to multiple bomb sites across London. We treated, or | :37:18. | :37:24. | |
helped treat over 700 patients that day. We had 16 teams, we flew over | :37:24. | :37:29. | |
26 missions. As acknowledged in the 7/7 inquest, we played a vital role | :37:29. | :37:34. | |
in saving lives. Research has shown that the system work better because | :37:34. | :37:39. | |
we played that role. It may look and sound just like another | :37:39. | :37:44. | |
emergency service. But London's air ambulance is actually a charity. In | :37:44. | :37:48. | |
the coroner's report into 7th July attacks, she wrote about her | :37:48. | :37:51. | |
concern that London should have to rely on a service dependent on the | :37:51. | :37:55. | |
public's charity and staff giving up their time for free, | :37:55. | :37:58. | |
particularly as a global city, a major terrorist target and a host | :37:58. | :38:02. | |
of the Olympic Games. The recommendation was that its funding | :38:02. | :38:07. | |
and capacity should be reviewed. have not had dialogue with the | :38:07. | :38:10. | |
Department of Health about this review into our capacity and | :38:10. | :38:14. | |
funding. We believe it needs to happen urgently and we wait | :38:14. | :38:18. | |
optimistic before it to happen. The recommendation for a review on | :38:18. | :38:21. | |
capacity and funding was addressed to more than just the government, | :38:21. | :38:24. | |
it was addressed to the Mayor of London as well and we will address | :38:24. | :38:28. | |
it to the people of London. So far we have had no definite response | :38:28. | :38:31. | |
from the Mayor of London as to helping us with either support or | :38:31. | :38:35. | |
funding. The Department of Health told Sunday Politics it was still | :38:35. | :38:39. | |
deciding what the terms of the review might be. Not that you would | :38:39. | :38:42. | |
know from reading the government's official review into the progress | :38:42. | :38:46. | |
made on the coroner's report. It says that discussions continued | :38:46. | :38:49. | |
between government and London's air ambulance about funding and | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
capacity. Despite the fact that London's air ambulance tell us that | :38:52. | :38:56. | |
no such discussions have taken place recently. They tell us that | :38:56. | :38:59. | |
people who drew up this week's progress report did not even make | :38:59. | :39:05. | |
contact with them to check. Another recommendation that has not been | :39:05. | :39:09. | |
followed up to everyone satisfaction was number 7. For | :39:09. | :39:13. | |
Transport for London to review keeping first aid kits on | :39:13. | :39:16. | |
underground trains. TfL say they have reviewed it but decided it was | :39:16. | :39:21. | |
impractical. Putting them on trains is a practical issue. They are very | :39:21. | :39:26. | |
dusty and dirty places. We looked to see where we could put them. | :39:26. | :39:30. | |
They may be lost at any time will but if we put them under seats, | :39:30. | :39:33. | |
customers tend to steal them. We can get first aid equipment to | :39:33. | :39:38. | |
people very quickly from the right places, which is on stations. | :39:38. | :39:42. | |
Instead of first aid kits at stations that we had on 7/7, we | :39:42. | :39:46. | |
have a new improved version. These are not good enough, at least | :39:46. | :39:49. | |
according to this woman who was on the train attacked near Edgware | :39:49. | :39:54. | |
Road. When a bomb goes off in the middle of a tunnel, I don't | :39:54. | :39:57. | |
understand what used the first aid kit on the station platform Allen & | :39:57. | :40:04. | |
Overy is going to be. -- on the state -- on the State for -- on the | :40:04. | :40:14. | |
state -- on the station platform is going to be. How quickly can you | :40:14. | :40:19. | |
get equipment is somebody trapped in a tunnel? I have been told I was | :40:19. | :40:25. | |
trapped for about an hour. Jackie now feel disappointed. What has to | :40:25. | :40:29. | |
happen to make them do what is right for the travelling public? | :40:29. | :40:34. | |
What does it take to make people, in a position to make these | :40:34. | :40:40. | |
decisions, stop being smug and get off their backsides and do | :40:40. | :40:46. | |
something? I am joined by former deputy Mayor | :40:46. | :40:49. | |
Richard Barnes, who was in charge of co-ordinating London's response | :40:49. | :40:55. | |
to incidents like 7/7, and a solicitor robe and in some of the | :40:55. | :40:59. | |
7/7 survivors and families of the victims. -- representing some of | :40:59. | :41:02. | |
the 7/7 survivors. How far have your recommendations been | :41:02. | :41:06. | |
implemented? One of the biggest problems is that what has been | :41:06. | :41:09. | |
implemented is not being properly communicated. We are told that | :41:09. | :41:13. | |
things have changed, but we are not told what they are. Sometimes for | :41:13. | :41:18. | |
very sound reasons. Recently on the emergency service front, there was | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
a big operation called for defensive, where the emergency | :41:22. | :41:26. | |
services were being tested. And the results of that operation are not | :41:26. | :41:30. | |
being published at all. It says in the recent updates that we have | :41:30. | :41:34. | |
circulated the results to all our partners, but not to the travelling | :41:34. | :41:38. | |
public, who want to know whether a response is going to be passed | :41:38. | :41:42. | |
enough for what can you deduce from that? You can't deduce their | :41:42. | :41:47. | |
problems. If the government are not saying that this government wracked | :41:47. | :41:52. | |
as this operation is working well, I deduce that it is not. Did you | :41:52. | :41:56. | |
have access to that information? But the show that London has not | :41:56. | :42:00. | |
responded well? I would not say that London has responded badly at | :42:00. | :42:10. | |
:42:10. | :42:11. | ||
all. When I chaired my report and look at what position we were in on | :42:11. | :42:16. | |
7th July 2005, and where are we now, which of our 54 recommendations | :42:16. | :42:23. | |
have been recommended? One was that Transport for London should | :42:23. | :42:30. | |
consider having first aid kits in cabs. We said they should consider | :42:30. | :42:35. | |
it and look at it properly. You are happy they decided not to go ahead? | :42:35. | :42:42. | |
We now have 171st a depots across London. I have travelled in cabs | :42:42. | :42:47. | |
and there is very little space to put it there -- 170 first-stage | :42:47. | :42:51. | |
depots. I don't want to rely on a driver who has been traumatised | :42:51. | :42:59. | |
himself. You heard a survivor saying that they do not want it | :42:59. | :43:03. | |
along the platform, they wanted on the train with quick access. | :43:03. | :43:07. | |
understand what they want. Hopefully would happen on 7th July | :43:07. | :43:14. | |
is a one-off if you like, and there are other incidents were perhaps | :43:14. | :43:20. | |
supply of first aid equipment from the stations is appropriate. It is | :43:20. | :43:26. | |
nonsense to suggest that when Richard Barnes proposes, as chair | :43:26. | :43:31. | |
of the review committee, that there should be first aid kits on trains, | :43:31. | :43:35. | |
and then five years later, the coroner supports that | :43:35. | :43:39. | |
recommendation, invites them to reconsider it, to review it. It is | :43:39. | :43:43. | |
extraordinary that it is beyond the wit and the brains in this country | :43:43. | :43:47. | |
to install sufficient first aid equipment on an Underground train. | :43:47. | :43:52. | |
I want to ask the London air ambulance, something that the Mayor | :43:52. | :43:55. | |
and you decided, it is not in our remit, we have not got | :43:55. | :44:00. | |
responsibility, why not? The Mayor can only act on what he has a | :44:00. | :44:05. | |
statutory responsibilities for. There are those who propose that | :44:05. | :44:10. | |
the ambulance service should be part... You take the easy jobs and | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
not the typical ones that cost money for it but I love that you | :44:14. | :44:24. | |
:44:24. | :44:25. | ||
are jumping to different The day after, on the eighth of | :44:25. | :44:30. | |
July, it was due to be in for service. It was a happy coincidence | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
that all the doctors were together for a meeting on 7th July, they | :44:34. | :44:39. | |
were then ferried by the ambulance service out to points where there | :44:39. | :44:44. | |
were the four bombs across London. You can't have a first responder | :44:44. | :44:49. | |
which you can't rely on, seven days a week, 24 hours a day. There are | :44:49. | :44:53. | |
real risk that -- political decisions to be made and looked at. | :44:53. | :44:58. | |
It is an asset to the ambulance service, it is not necessarily a | :44:58. | :45:02. | |
first response of the highest order. What do you think? I have been to | :45:02. | :45:05. | |
the Royal London to see it and the chances of survival if you're | :45:05. | :45:09. | |
picked up by the air ambulance and dealt with by the trauma unit is | :45:09. | :45:13. | |
exponentially higher. We are facing a world where we have more of these | :45:13. | :45:17. | |
threats. Of course we hope it is an aberration but we do not know that. | :45:17. | :45:23. | |
We need to make sure it is not the first point of call at 247 because | :45:23. | :45:27. | |
that is challenging, but it is there as much as can be. I think | :45:27. | :45:32. | |
the film was slightly wrong, I think the doctors are paid for by | :45:32. | :45:37. | |
the charity. As trains are redesigned, there should be space | :45:37. | :45:40. | |
to put it behind glass that you can break in an emergency, I would say | :45:40. | :45:43. | |
the issue around theft and keep it clean. There may be practical | :45:44. | :45:47. | |
challenges here and now but I think it is premature to rule it out | :45:47. | :45:57. | |
:45:57. | :45:59. | ||
completely. Simon Hughes, D feel we I am grateful for this report. It | :45:59. | :46:04. | |
took the terrible Marchioness tragedy to forced London to get its | :46:04. | :46:09. | |
act together. Lifeboat service, much more safety on the river, all | :46:09. | :46:15. | |
that sort of stuff. For me, there is a lot of work still to be done. | :46:15. | :46:21. | |
I have been and seen what the air ambulance do, they do a fantastic | :46:21. | :46:27. | |
job. It would be good if they can be linked with the London Ambulance | :46:27. | :46:30. | |
Service formally, I would support that, and I will willingly pick up | :46:30. | :46:34. | |
these issues, including that of having first aid kits underground, | :46:34. | :46:40. | |
because I think we need to learn the lessons. This demonstrates that | :46:40. | :46:45. | |
there are over 200 rule 43 reports from coroners in the last six | :46:45. | :46:49. | |
months, we had the King's Cross fire report ignored, the | :46:49. | :46:53. | |
recommendations from the Marchioness ignored but the blog | :46:53. | :47:03. | |
:47:03. | :47:05. | ||
they were not ignored. -- ignored... They were not ignored. We need to | :47:05. | :47:08. | |
ensure that coroner's recommendations are put in place | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
and we need some government department to oversee it and say, | :47:12. | :47:19. | |
we agreed with it. But about the Marchioness, you are wrong, a lot | :47:19. | :47:27. | |
was gonna buy the last Government. There is no statutory... A lot was | :47:28. | :47:32. | |
implemented after the last government. What else has been | :47:32. | :47:40. | |
happening in the City this week? A round up, in 60 seconds. | :47:40. | :47:44. | |
A special tube train to mark the diamond jubilee celebrations broke | :47:44. | :47:48. | |
down in the tunnel. Passengers were led down the track after the train | :47:49. | :47:54. | |
stopped on the Jubilee Line near St John's Wood. Transport for London | :47:54. | :47:58. | |
has apologised and said it would compensate those evacuated. Us | :47:58. | :48:03. | |
senior Ukrainian Olympic official has been suspended after a BBC | :48:03. | :48:08. | |
investigation showed he was willing to sell Olympics tickets for cash. | :48:08. | :48:13. | |
He told a reporter that he would have up to 100 tickets to sell. | :48:13. | :48:19. | |
Stella Creasey raised the issue of pay-day loans in PMQs. 65% of the | :48:19. | :48:24. | |
public want to see caps on the cost of credit, when were his ministers | :48:24. | :48:30. | |
finally do something about ending it legal loan sharks in the UK? | :48:30. | :48:34. | |
teaches in a north London school resisting academy status went on | :48:34. | :48:39. | |
strike. The National Union of Teachers said 20 members have taken | :48:39. | :48:43. | |
action against the proposals that the school would become a sponsored | :48:43. | :48:49. | |
Academy of. Simon Hughes. Passengers | :48:49. | :48:52. | |
underground compensated. Signal failures. Will we be able to cope | :48:52. | :48:58. | |
with the Olympics? I represent part of the Jubilee Line and many other | :48:58. | :49:03. | |
stations. I was concerned about the breakdown. They have increased the | :49:03. | :49:08. | |
number of trains and frequency recently so they come roughly once | :49:08. | :49:13. | |
a minute. That is great. But I am glad that these issues came up now | :49:13. | :49:19. | |
because I hope there will be time to sort them before the Olympics. | :49:19. | :49:22. | |
The survey's overall has improved but the problem is, when it is not | :49:22. | :49:28. | |
working, it is such a bad failure - - the service be fooled. I was | :49:28. | :49:33. | |
stuck underground lift a day for 10 seconds and it is not very pleasant. | :49:33. | :49:37. | |
I have a lot of time for the Commissioner for London Transport | :49:37. | :49:43. | |
and I think if anyone can crack it, he can. Thank you, both. Back to | :49:43. | :49:51. | |
Thought last week at the Leveson was a good one? Well, get the | :49:51. | :49:58. | |
popcorn in because you ain't seen nothing yet. Tomorrow Tony Blair | :49:58. | :50:01. | |
will be in the hot seat, and after that come a host of cabinet | :50:01. | :50:04. | |
ministers including Vince Cable and, on Thursday, the man at the centre | :50:04. | :50:09. | |
of the storm Jeremy Hunt. All manna from heaven for our panel looking | :50:10. | :50:19. | |
forward to The Week Ahead. Let's begin with Syria. Back in the | :50:19. | :50:24. | |
headlines after this atrocity. This one seems to be one of the worst. | :50:24. | :50:28. | |
There is the general cry, even from papers that opposed Afghanistan and | :50:28. | :50:33. | |
Iraq, that something must be done. But what? And that includes the | :50:33. | :50:40. | |
Independent, were very sceptical about the Iraq war. They opposed it. | :50:40. | :50:49. | |
President Assad is, unlike a lot of dictators who were deposed in the | :50:49. | :50:54. | |
Arab Spring, a darkly effective autocrat. Getting rid of him might | :50:55. | :51:00. | |
require more than airstrikes. The group he has on his country, with | :51:01. | :51:05. | |
paid informers and spies and the broader Syrian intelligence date, | :51:05. | :51:11. | |
is fearsome. Unless we are prepared to have a no-fly zone, which we | :51:11. | :51:17. | |
could do, NATO wanted to, and on the rebels, there is not much we | :51:17. | :51:23. | |
can do. We watch kids having their throats slit. It is absolutely | :51:23. | :51:27. | |
devastating but you are completely right. What can we do and what | :51:27. | :51:32. | |
lessons did we learn from Iraq? Firstly that intervention is | :51:32. | :51:37. | |
incredibly expensive and at the moment, the MoD is facing massive | :51:37. | :51:41. | |
cuts and said intervention would be difficult. If we do not have | :51:41. | :51:46. | |
multilateral intervention, you are causing real problems as well. | :51:46. | :51:50. | |
Russia and America and China on know where. And if you intervene | :51:50. | :51:55. | |
without a long-term development plan, you caused massive suffering | :51:55. | :52:01. | |
like we saw in Iraq. With Iraq, there was a plausible strategic | :52:01. | :52:05. | |
reason to get involved, which was the possibility of weapons of mass | :52:05. | :52:14. | |
destruction. That was plausible. don't pretend to to be an expert -- | :52:14. | :52:19. | |
to be an expert, but British people look at this and think, let's start | :52:19. | :52:23. | |
listing what we can do rather than what we cannot do. We are keen to | :52:23. | :52:28. | |
say, this will be the perils of this strategy... I do not pretend | :52:28. | :52:37. | |
to have the answers. I am not employed to do that, thankfully. | :52:37. | :52:43. | |
Also the inspector of UN observers, what exactly do they do? It is a | :52:43. | :52:47. | |
terrible story. Our options seem pretty limited. | :52:47. | :52:54. | |
Baroness Warsi. Is she toast? think Chuka Umunna was very good | :52:54. | :52:58. | |
about this in the programme. He was saying a lot of politicians are | :52:59. | :53:02. | |
humble not to just condemn this quickly after what happened with | :53:02. | :53:07. | |
the MPs' expenses scandal. This is an issue for all parties. It | :53:07. | :53:12. | |
happens in 2007, which is a long time ago. I don't think she is | :53:12. | :53:18. | |
toast. I think Cameron values her as a woman and a someone in a party | :53:18. | :53:23. | |
that is not particularly diverse. We will have to see where it goes. | :53:23. | :53:27. | |
But she is not that popular with the Tories. What makes her likely | :53:27. | :53:30. | |
to be toast is not just the substance of the allegations but | :53:30. | :53:35. | |
the fact that she has no friends, particularly the Tory right over | :53:35. | :53:39. | |
the last few years. They have regarded her as an ineffective and | :53:39. | :53:43. | |
lazy defender of the party. There was it true that they would be | :53:44. | :53:49. | |
getting rid of her anyway. Baroness Warsi's name is the one that always | :53:49. | :53:54. | |
cropping up as the one that will be moved in the next reshuffle. | :53:54. | :53:58. | |
said she paid the landlord. The landlord got some money. And that | :53:58. | :54:03. | |
would justify her claiming her expenses. But the landlord said he | :54:03. | :54:08. | |
did not get the money. That could be devastating. She actually said, | :54:08. | :54:13. | |
as I understand it, that she paid the friends, the intermediary, and | :54:13. | :54:18. | |
the landlord said he did not get any money out of either of them. | :54:18. | :54:23. | |
The interesting point is that Labour will not be coasting for | :54:23. | :54:27. | |
Baroness while seed to go because they know they have their own | :54:27. | :54:31. | |
expenses issues -- Baroness Warsi. But they may be used for people in | :54:32. | :54:36. | |
the Conservative Party as an excuse to get rid of her. The job of party | :54:36. | :54:40. | |
chairman used to be a profound role and Chris Patten did it in the | :54:40. | :54:45. | |
early 90s. Norman Tebbit did it. Under Cameron and George Osborne it | :54:45. | :54:51. | |
has been sidelined. They have put people there for honorific purposes. | :54:51. | :54:55. | |
Do they use this opportunity now to put in a heavy hitter who | :54:55. | :54:59. | |
effectively dominates their campaign for the next election and | :54:59. | :55:02. | |
communicate the message to the public in a way that Cameron and | :55:02. | :55:08. | |
was born may not be able to do? Tomorrow at Leveson Inquiry we will | :55:08. | :55:12. | |
be reminded that there was a time when it was hard to get a cigarette | :55:12. | :55:18. | |
paper between Mr Murdoch's organisation and Tony Blair's Lady | :55:18. | :55:22. | |
government -- Labour government. do not think Tony Blair will tell | :55:22. | :55:27. | |
us anything really exciting this week. I think Jeremy Hunt and Vince | :55:27. | :55:33. | |
Cable will be the really interesting thing. Will Vince Cable | :55:33. | :55:38. | |
implicitly do Jeremy Hunt damage? I suspect he will say, I did not | :55:38. | :55:44. | |
tweets anybody at BSkyB and the Murdoch organisation, I have no | :55:44. | :55:49. | |
text relationships... Vince Cable is in no mood to take any prisoners | :55:49. | :55:53. | |
and it all comes down to the questions he is asked. He is not | :55:53. | :55:57. | |
vindictive but if he is asked the right questions, he will not be | :55:57. | :56:03. | |
covering up for anybody. government's of political hope with | :56:03. | :56:07. | |
regard to the Leveson Inquiry is to spread the mark. We are all in this | :56:07. | :56:12. | |
together. Absolutely. Defending themselves gets them know where | :56:12. | :56:15. | |
because I do not think the public are paying attention to each item | :56:15. | :56:19. | |
of the Leveson Inquiry. The job they must do is to prove Labour was | :56:19. | :56:26. | |
as involved as them, with the Murdoch empire, said Tony Blair's | :56:26. | :56:32. | |
appearance may help them to do that. -- so Tony Blair's appearance. | :56:32. | :56:36. | |
suspect they will be laid out how close their relationship was. How | :56:36. | :56:42. | |
often they met. How deep and widespread the contact between both | :56:42. | :56:51. | |
on to Rajs was. Absolutely. -- both Murdoch and Blair teams were. | :56:51. | :56:55. | |
speak about the fall-out of the individuals but what | :56:55. | :56:58. | |
recommendations will Lord Leveson come up with to make sure this | :56:58. | :57:03. | |
never happens again? Is this make or break for Jeremy Hunt? | :57:03. | :57:10. | |
Absolutely. So absolutely, Thursday it is worth getting the popcorn? | :57:10. | :57:13. | |
had the dubious pleasure of going through a lot of the documents that | :57:13. | :57:17. | |
were released on Friday night. I know how to have fun on a Friday | :57:17. | :57:22. | |
night. The one thing they did strike me was just how keen Jeremy | :57:22. | :57:26. | |
Hunt was on this deal and how keen he was to intervene, even when it | :57:26. | :57:30. | |
was Vince Cable's responsibility. He was given legal advice to keep | :57:30. | :57:35. | |
away and he still wrote that memo. He found a way of avoiding the | :57:35. | :57:38. | |
summit to the Competition Commission which was the root | :57:38. | :57:43. | |
Rupert Murdoch did not want to go. The problem is that Jeremy Hunt did | :57:43. | :57:46. | |
seem to indicate that he made no intervention and the memo | :57:46. | :57:51. | |
contradicts that, it seems to. The one thing in his favour, as soon as | :57:51. | :57:56. | |
people say it looks bad and shows bad judgment, almost by definition | :57:56. | :58:00. | |
they are admitting it is hard to prove a concrete offence. As dodgy | :58:00. | :58:05. | |
as the text messages look, they do not constitute a veteran. But in | :58:05. | :58:09. | |
general, his performance on Thursday makes or breaks his career. | :58:09. | :58:13. | |
I think so. Jubilee fever is mounting so no | :58:13. | :58:18. | |
show next weekend, I'll be holding a street party. In New York. But | :58:18. | :58:22. | |
we'll be back here on the Sunday after that at the usual time of | :58:22. | :58:24. |