Browse content similar to 17/02/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, folks. Welcome to The Sunday Politics. The gloves are off. | :00:42. | :00:46. | |
It is all guns blazing has the parties fight it out over Chris | :00:46. | :00:50. | |
Huhne's vacant seat. Eastleigh is turning and to one of these British | :00:51. | :00:53. | |
by-election humdingers. We will talk to the man leading the | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
Conservative campaign in our top story. | :00:55. | :01:00. | |
Ed Miliband wants to introduce a mansion tax. He also wants to | :01:00. | :01:04. | |
reintroduce the 10 pence tax rate. Policies at last, but are they any | :01:04. | :01:09. | |
good? We asked the man who helped Ed get the top job, shadowed | :01:09. | :01:13. | |
Justice Secretary Sadiq Khan. David Cameron is off to India | :01:13. | :01:17. | |
tonight, a space-age military power to which Britain still gives aid. | :01:17. | :01:22. | |
But not much -- not for much longer. In times of austerity, should we be | :01:22. | :01:27. | |
doling out more aid than ever, and does it work? The two sides go head | :01:27. | :01:30. | |
to head. Ten years since the congestion | :01:30. | :01:34. | |
charge, his London less congested? We were asked the man behind the | :01:34. | :01:43. | |
scheme, Ken Livingstone. And with me, three ne'er do wells | :01:43. | :01:48. | |
we have picked up off the streets of London in our very own job | :01:48. | :01:53. | |
creation scheme. Isabel Oakeshott, Nick Watt and Iain Martin will be | :01:53. | :01:55. | |
tweeting as if their lives depend on it throughout the programme, and | :01:55. | :02:00. | |
they probably do depend on it. Things are turning somewhat beastly | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
in Eastleigh. The old railway town on the south coast of Hampshire is | :02:04. | :02:08. | |
where Chris Huhne's disgrace has prompted a by-election, pitting the | :02:08. | :02:11. | |
coalition partners against each other. As always, when supposed | :02:12. | :02:17. | |
friends fall out, it is getting frenetic. To give us a flavour of | :02:17. | :02:21. | |
the campaign, our correspondent has the hottest ticket in the country. | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
We have the Tory chairman in just a minute. Tell us how the Tory | :02:25. | :02:29. | |
campaign is going. They are working very hard, and they need to because | :02:29. | :02:32. | |
their opponents are very well organised. The Liberal Democrats | :02:32. | :02:37. | |
have held the seat since 1994, when they took it from the Conservatives | :02:37. | :02:41. | |
in a by-election. They are well represented on the local council | :02:41. | :02:46. | |
and have an army of party workers. They delivered 50,000 leaflets just | :02:46. | :02:50. | |
yesterday. The Conservatives are fighting back. There are lots of | :02:50. | :02:54. | |
big hitters on the campaign trail, including David Cameron, who was | :02:54. | :02:59. | |
here on Valentine's Day, surprising voters in one cul-de-sac by posting | :02:59. | :03:03. | |
leaflets through their letterboxes. Tory MPs have been told that they | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
must get on the campaign trail here in Eastleigh at least three times | :03:07. | :03:11. | |
during the campaign. Their candidate, Maria Hutchings, has | :03:11. | :03:15. | |
attracted controversy. Some have described her as being off-message. | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
She made comments about education, saying her gifted some might find | :03:19. | :03:22. | |
it difficult to get the right sort of education in the state system. | :03:22. | :03:27. | |
Her opponents have leapt on that, saying she has insulted the state | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
education system. The Conservatives have countered that she supports | :03:30. | :03:34. | |
the reforms being made by Michael Gove. There is lots to play for. | :03:34. | :03:38. | |
The gloves are off between the coalition partners. Labour and UKIP | :03:38. | :03:44. | |
are hoping to do well, too, as the countdown to polling day on | :03:44. | :03:48. | |
February the 28 continues, with 14 candidates fighting for it. | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
As if by magic, we have the chairman of the Conservative Party | :03:51. | :03:57. | |
on hand, Grant Shapps. He is in sunny Hertfordshire. Your candidate | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
in Eastleigh keeps putting her foot in it, you are behind in the polls | :04:00. | :04:04. | |
and the bookies make the Lib Dems favourites to win. What is the good | :04:04. | :04:11. | |
news for the Tories this morning? Well, we have a candidate who is a | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
local person. She has worked there forever. When you walk down the | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
street, people say that did the job club she set up and this is the | :04:19. | :04:24. | |
cafe she helped saved from development across the road. She is | :04:24. | :04:27. | |
involved in the community in a real way. She would be a fantastic | :04:27. | :04:31. | |
advocate for the area. The people of Eastleigh will decide, but we | :04:31. | :04:36. | |
have a great candidate. By not a great advocate for the area's state | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
schools. She says it is impossible in the state system for one of her | :04:40. | :04:43. | |
children who is gifted and wants to be a surgeon to get a decent | :04:43. | :04:50. | |
education in the state system. Is she right? Well, she went to state | :04:50. | :04:58. | |
school, as did her husband, as did two of her children. We have to be | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
responsible as politicians and not try to drag children in two | :05:01. | :05:09. | |
elections. She was the one who mentioned it. For is she right that | :05:09. | :05:14. | |
her kids can't get a decent state education? I think she was | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
answering a question by someone else. Every parent wants the best | :05:18. | :05:22. | |
for their child, be that Nick Clegg or Ed Miliband or Maria Hutchins or | :05:22. | :05:29. | |
myself. It is reasonable to look for the best option. She has four | :05:29. | :05:33. | |
children, and two or three of them are in the state system, so that | :05:33. | :05:38. | |
illustrates that she believes in it. You are playing a -- paying a small | :05:38. | :05:43. | |
thatched -- fortune for an election strategist. Why is he doing glossy | :05:43. | :05:49. | |
photo-shoots instead of leading the charge in Eastleigh? Linton Crosby | :05:49. | :05:55. | |
is part time. He advises us on some of our campaigning. But we have a | :05:55. | :06:00. | |
fully staffed operation. The main thing we want to do his make sure | :06:00. | :06:05. | |
people know we have a first-class candidate in Eastleigh. She is from | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
the local area, and she is a natural. She does not need telling | :06:09. | :06:14. | |
what to do, because she goes out and fights. She is an advocate for | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
people in Eastleigh without instructions from outside. So Mr | :06:18. | :06:26. | |
Crosby is not involved in that? I said, he works part-time, | :06:26. | :06:32. | |
advising the party on various things. The great thing is, we are | :06:32. | :06:35. | |
not the kind of organisation that needs somebody telling us what to | :06:35. | :06:39. | |
do when you have such a good candidate. Maria is capable of | :06:39. | :06:44. | |
knowing when to fight against the inappropriate development that the | :06:44. | :06:49. | |
Lib Dem candidate for voted for in the council and is now against. | :06:49. | :06:53. | |
Maria naturally knows to be on the side of local people, because she | :06:53. | :06:56. | |
is one, and fights against the inappropriate development, wanting | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
it to go in the best place rather than places that cause problems for | :07:01. | :07:05. | |
the infrastructure. Given that she is such a great local candidate in | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
your view, if you can't win Eastleigh after the sitting Lib Dem | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
MP departed in disgrace, then you're a general election strategy | :07:13. | :07:20. | |
of winning 20 Lib-Dem seats is for the birds. The idea that any by- | :07:20. | :07:24. | |
election is a determinant of the next general election has been | :07:24. | :07:28. | |
disproved over the years. I don't know what will happen in Eastleigh. | :07:28. | :07:35. | |
I agree with your correspondent. It is a tough battle. But we will | :07:35. | :07:38. | |
fight for the hearts and minds of Eastleigh residents. If they want | :07:38. | :07:44. | |
an MP who works hard, his local, who fought at the last election and | :07:44. | :07:49. | |
did not win it, but did not go away and carried on fighting, not | :07:49. | :07:53. | |
because she is a politician, but she's a regular person who believes | :07:53. | :07:58. | |
in the area, people will get not a professional politician, but | :07:58. | :08:01. | |
someone who cares passionately about Eastleigh. Speaking of | :08:01. | :08:07. | |
regular people, when will you give Nadine Dorries the whip back? | :08:08. | :08:15. | |
is not my choice. It is up to the Chief Whip. You don't have a view | :08:15. | :08:23. | |
as to whether she should be back or not? That is a matter between her | :08:23. | :08:30. | |
and the Chief Whip. As we know, when she went away, it was not on | :08:30. | :08:39. | |
authorised leave, to go on a celebrity show. | :08:39. | :08:48. | |
I would love to tell you the answer, but I don't know. | :08:48. | :08:55. | |
Nick, the Tory campaign, he is not the most confident Tory. But they | :08:55. | :08:58. | |
have a new approach, which is a Tory candidate who does not agree | :08:59. | :09:03. | |
with the Prime Minister on most of the issues of the day - Europe, gay | :09:03. | :09:08. | |
marriage. It is a franchise approach. It is like McDonald's, | :09:08. | :09:12. | |
they have franchised the Tory plan to Maria Hutchings in Eastleigh. If | :09:12. | :09:17. | |
you don't agree with the leadership, it doesn't matter. It may work in a | :09:17. | :09:21. | |
by-election, but that is not serious governance. Remember New | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
Labour, when they were storming those by-elections in the '90s? You | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
looked at a disciplined, governing force. This does not look like a | :09:30. | :09:35. | |
serious force. Somebody said to us that the Tory headquarters at the | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
Eastleigh by-election was like a scene from a cowboy movie, but one | :09:38. | :09:43. | |
where the tumbleweed was just drifting through the corridors. | :09:43. | :09:48. | |
Absolutely. The Tories have a real problem there. It is getting | :09:48. | :09:55. | |
unpleasant. No one expected it to be an edifying contest, but it is | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
happening because there is a lot at stake for three of the main parties. | :09:59. | :10:04. | |
They all need a win. The Lib Dems need to hold on because that | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
suggests that they are on the way back. The Tories need to win. And | :10:08. | :10:14. | |
Labour's candidate has put it well. He is rather refreshing. He said | :10:14. | :10:19. | |
yesterday that he had no idea what would happen, that anything could | :10:19. | :10:24. | |
happen. You could get a UKIP surge or in Labour surge. It is all to | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
play for. You have to hand it to the Tories for not choosing a Tory | :10:28. | :10:34. | |
robot on this occasion. I don't know whether you two have been in | :10:34. | :10:40. | |
the constituency this week, I haven't. But my sense is that there | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
is increasing panic in the Tory campaign headquarters. They have | :10:43. | :10:51. | |
chosen an unusual candidate. There has been a game of cat-and-mouse | :10:51. | :10:54. | |
with journalists trying to get an interview with Maria Hutchings | :10:54. | :10:57. | |
which is ridiculous. They are desperately trying to control their | :10:57. | :11:02. | |
candidate now. You can get a list of all the | :11:02. | :11:05. | |
candidates in Eastleigh on the BBC website. | :11:05. | :11:09. | |
The Liberal Democrats like the idea. Labour is now a jolly keen on it, | :11:09. | :11:13. | |
too. The Tories are not so keen. I am talking about a mansion tax, | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
which Ed Miliband says he would like to introduce so that he can | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
reintroduce the 10 pence income tax rate which Gordon Brown introduced | :11:21. | :11:26. | |
in the late 1990s and then abolished amid controversy in 2007. | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
So Labour is beginning to flesh out its policies, but will it lead to | :11:30. | :11:35. | |
them being trusted when it comes to the nation's finances? We sent Adam | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
Fleming to find out. If only he had thought of a more scientific way of | :11:39. | :11:42. | |
measuring the public mood. To find out whether people trust | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
the Labour Party on the economy, we have come to Spitalfields Market in | :11:46. | :11:51. | |
London, a stone's throw from the City. We will use our mood box, | :11:51. | :11:59. | |
where people vote with these. The Tory government have done what | :11:59. | :12:05. | |
they promised. They need to do more for the working class. Do you trust | :12:05. | :12:13. | |
Labour on the economy? Did you put it in less by accident? Yes, sorry. | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
Labour have not set out their credentials. I have seen Ed | :12:17. | :12:21. | |
Miliband say they will reintroduce the 10 pence tax. It is the first | :12:21. | :12:28. | |
policy I have seen. I will leave my ball there. You have until 2015 to | :12:28. | :12:37. | |
decide. They have a way to go before they regain public trust. | :12:37. | :12:42. | |
What about the small matter of running up a massive deficit? | :12:42. | :12:47. | |
admittedly. But we were heading that way anyway. I don't feel this | :12:47. | :12:55. | |
is Labour's fault. Absolutely yes. Trustworthy, good people. Is that | :12:55. | :13:05. | |
:13:05. | :13:06. | ||
message getting through? No. Which party do you trust on the economy? | :13:06. | :13:16. | |
:13:16. | :13:16. | ||
Do you trust the Labour Party on the economy? I don't trust Miliband. | :13:16. | :13:26. | |
:13:26. | :13:30. | ||
And Ed Balls... Well. Miliband or balls? Ed Balls? I don't trust him. | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
Soon the spending and what they were throwing money at, I don't | :13:33. | :13:42. | |
trust them. What a question! I don't trust any of them. One have | :13:42. | :13:47. | |
you gone for yes? Because I am a lifelong socialist and I would | :13:47. | :13:51. | |
never vote anything else. In fact, this Labour is not quite left | :13:51. | :13:56. | |
enough for me. Take a break from shopping and Total Politics? | :13:56. | :14:06. | |
:14:06. | :14:08. | ||
thank you! Who is our prime minister? David Cameron. David | :14:08. | :14:13. | |
Cameron! But he seems to have a concrete plan on reducing the | :14:13. | :14:16. | |
deficit, whereas Ed Miliband has a funny voice and does not really say | :14:16. | :14:22. | |
anything. I would like a box in the middle that says, I would like to. | :14:22. | :14:28. | |
The EU can't say yes? Are a guess so. Doesn't look good. The balls | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
have cast judgement on the economic policies of Ed Balls, and the | :14:32. | :14:36. | |
majority of the public say no, they don't trust the Labour Party on the | :14:36. | :14:46. | |
:14:46. | :14:47. | ||
The shadow Justice Secretary, Sadiq Khan joins me now. | :14:47. | :14:52. | |
Welcome. We note mood box is not scientific but opinion polls are | :14:52. | :14:56. | |
reliable in these matters. Let me show you this one which confirms | :14:56. | :15:01. | |
the mood box. It is who is most to blame for the economic downturn? I | :15:01. | :15:06. | |
wonder why, three years into the coalition, with almost no growth in | :15:06. | :15:11. | |
the economy, living standards still falling, taxes rising, why do more | :15:11. | :15:13. | |
people still blame Labour for the state of the economy, than the | :15:13. | :15:17. | |
Government? I think the mood box and the polls you have, I don't | :15:17. | :15:21. | |
disagree what they say. I think it is fair that after we secured 29% | :15:21. | :15:26. | |
of the popular vote in May 2010, in two years and nine months we have | :15:26. | :15:28. | |
not won back the trust and confidence of the British people. | :15:28. | :15:32. | |
That's what the speech this week by Ed Miliband was about. There have | :15:32. | :15:35. | |
been other announcements we have made to show to the British public | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
that we get their concerns we. Need to persuade them we can be trusted | :15:40. | :15:45. | |
on the economy and we're trying to win back the trust and confidence. | :15:45. | :15:48. | |
Let's look at the mansion tax is. This a change in direction for a | :15:48. | :15:52. | |
party which once said it was intentionally relaxed about people | :15:53. | :15:58. | |
being rich? One person said that in our party during the New Labour | :15:58. | :16:02. | |
years. One school of thought is the way to get jobs and growth is to | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
get opportunities and give it to the those at the top to create | :16:05. | :16:09. | |
wealth and hope it trickles down. Another school of thought says - if | :16:09. | :16:13. | |
many do well, there is more chance of living standards improving and | :16:13. | :16:16. | |
our country doing better. The mansion tax is a good example, | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
where those who own a property that's worth more than �2 million | :16:20. | :16:24. | |
contribute. It means we can, for example, make life easier for hard- | :16:24. | :16:32. | |
working people on lower-to-middle incomes by a 10p rate tax. Are you | :16:32. | :16:35. | |
intensely relaxed about the redistribution of wealth? Is that | :16:35. | :16:40. | |
on your agenda? We do believe that wealth should be redistributed. You | :16:40. | :16:45. | |
heard the phrase, about pre- distribution. You try to address | :16:45. | :16:49. | |
inequality before it happens. We argued for 13 years about a men mum | :16:50. | :16:54. | |
wage. What about a living wage so we can make sure rather than having | :16:54. | :16:58. | |
just tax credits, to improve the poor salaries people receive, try | :16:58. | :17:02. | |
to persuade employers to pay a decent living salary in the first | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
place. But you are quite hostile it, would seem to the well-off now. You | :17:05. | :17:09. | |
would take away 50% of their income, a lot. And then would you charge | :17:09. | :17:14. | |
them tens of thousands of pounds for the privilege of living in an | :17:14. | :17:19. | |
expensive house, of which they've already had massive stamp duty. Why | :17:19. | :17:24. | |
would they feel welcome in a Labour Britain? Why would they stay? | :17:24. | :17:30. | |
are in favour of keeping the 50p top rate of tax for nbgd earned | :17:30. | :17:34. | |
above �150,000, not below it. So we wouldn't be giving away the tax cut | :17:34. | :17:38. | |
to millionaires. I'm not arguing about whether that is right or not. | :17:38. | :17:42. | |
I'm saying if you were well-off and earned a big salary you wouldn't | :17:42. | :17:46. | |
feel welcome in a Labour Britain. Most people who are well-off who I | :17:46. | :17:49. | |
speak to say there is nothing wrong in the broadest shoulders carrying | :17:49. | :17:54. | |
the weight. So, for example, rather than a disproportionate. A people | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
lower down the salary scale having it pay for the deficit, by, for | :17:58. | :18:01. | |
example, cuts in the benefits and public services, we should all | :18:01. | :18:06. | |
share the load. When Labour last went in for this sort of penal | :18:06. | :18:15. | |
taxation in the '60s and '70s, the country suffered a massive brain | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
drain? I don't accept these being penal for those who earn lots of | :18:20. | :18:24. | |
money. We say for those who earn a property above �2 million should | :18:24. | :18:29. | |
pay tax towards - which helps out those who are earning �8,000, | :18:29. | :18:35. | |
�9,000, �10,000, it is a �1,000 band. It'll benefit for peanuts. If | :18:35. | :18:40. | |
they are on tax credit they'll get 67p a week. It is not more me to | :18:40. | :18:46. | |
belittle small sums of money. week. When we introduced the 10p | :18:46. | :18:52. | |
rate, the band of �,700. It went up to �2,200. We have announced, | :18:52. | :18:56. | |
because it is costed is about... Labour's idea of helping the | :18:56. | :19:01. | |
working poor is 67p a week. Don't belittle the contribution that a | :19:01. | :19:06. | |
10p rate of tax will do to heart- working people who are struggling | :19:06. | :19:12. | |
to pay tube fares and fares at petrol stations. How can 67p a week | :19:12. | :19:17. | |
help someone struggling to pay a tube fare whose rise is going | :19:17. | :19:23. | |
through the roof? It would pay for roughly speaking �100 a year, | :19:23. | :19:29. | |
roughly speaking, �2 a week. Then they'll lose their tax credit. It | :19:29. | :19:33. | |
is not �2 if you take away tax credits. How will you work out | :19:33. | :19:39. | |
which homes are worth ��2 million? That's what we are working out. We | :19:39. | :19:44. | |
would say if we are in Government today we would cancel the tax cut | :19:44. | :19:51. | |
for billionaires and introduce a 10p rate of tax and introduce the | :19:51. | :19:55. | |
mansion tax to fund. Do you rule out a revaluation for all | :19:55. | :20:02. | |
properties? If it meant hard working people having to pay more | :20:02. | :20:07. | |
council tax, we wouldn't want to do it. The Liberal Democrats have | :20:07. | :20:13. | |
suggested having a 7% stamp duty on those whose property are above | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
�million and a third option - revaluation of council tax bands. | :20:17. | :20:21. | |
Everybody's council tax would go up. That's the concern about that | :20:21. | :20:26. | |
option. That's why rather than simply saying today - it'll be in | :20:26. | :20:31. | |
man 23 yo no matter what, we are sea saying we'll do the work and | :20:31. | :20:35. | |
see if we can afford it and that's our aspiration. Will Labour back | :20:35. | :20:39. | |
the Home Secretary in their effort to get judges to deport more | :20:39. | :20:43. | |
violent criminals? We backed the Home Secretary already when it came | :20:43. | :20:48. | |
to us providing clarity to the judges on article 8 of the Human | :20:48. | :20:52. | |
Rights Act. It respects a private life. We said the Government that | :20:52. | :20:55. | |
we supported the Government in relation it making clear to judges, | :20:55. | :21:00. | |
when it comes to deporting criminals, if they are dangerous, | :21:00. | :21:08. | |
they should be deported. Soul sport primary legislation? We -- so you | :21:08. | :21:14. | |
will support them in the primary leg shraigs? We supported them. | :21:14. | :21:17. | |
If it comes to Strasbourg at the end of the road and they insist we | :21:17. | :21:22. | |
should give prisoners the votes, would you comply with that? I have | :21:22. | :21:27. | |
asked Chris Grayling and Ken Clarke on the legal advice they have. We | :21:27. | :21:30. | |
may disagree with the judgment of Strasbourg and we have been against | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
prisoners having a investigate for a number of years. What is the | :21:34. | :21:37. | |
legal minimum we have to satisfy the court, in relation to which | :21:37. | :21:40. | |
prisoners should get the votes? What I have said it Chris Grayling | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
and Ken Clarke - show me the legal advice, what is the minimum we can | :21:44. | :21:48. | |
do, to get away with the judgment that has been passed and let's try | :21:48. | :21:52. | |
to do the minimum possible. attacked in October, the Government, | :21:52. | :21:56. | |
for the fact that most burglars don't go to prison, even if they | :21:56. | :21:58. | |
have previous convictions? Would you change the sentencing guide | :21:58. | :22:02. | |
liebs to make sure more do go to prison -- guidelines? I think there | :22:02. | :22:06. | |
should be a presumption when it comes to sentencing burglars that | :22:06. | :22:10. | |
they should go to the prison. A judge is a person who hears the | :22:10. | :22:16. | |
case, he or she, sees the evidence and the syringe Timms and sees the | :22:16. | :22:20. | |
demeanour and conduct of the criminal. You could change | :22:20. | :22:23. | |
guidelines. The sentencing council, we are part of the sentencing | :22:23. | :22:26. | |
council make-newspaper relation it the guidelines they give to judges. | :22:26. | :22:31. | |
We could, for example, pass legislation and say everyone who is | :22:31. | :22:35. | |
found guilty of burglary should go to prison, but we think judges | :22:35. | :22:38. | |
should have the discretion. There should be a presumption, if | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
somebody is found guilty of a burglary on a residential property | :22:41. | :22:45. | |
they should go to prison. But they don't. The judges could do as what | :22:45. | :22:51. | |
they want, you wouldn't change that. I wouldn't tie the hands of the | :22:51. | :22:57. | |
judges. It was just words. No, we have constitutional powers. The | :22:57. | :23:00. | |
legislature pass the laws and the judges have to interpret them. We | :23:00. | :23:04. | |
say to the judges, the direction from Parliament, 239 executive is | :23:04. | :23:07. | |
we take it seriously of the residential burglary traumatizes | :23:07. | :23:11. | |
families and victims and neighbours. We think it is so serious that | :23:11. | :23:15. | |
there should be a presumption they go to prison. Why has Labour chosen | :23:15. | :23:19. | |
a candidate in the Eastleigh by- election who was disappointed - his | :23:19. | :23:25. | |
word - that Margaret Thatcher was not murdered by the IRA in Brighton. | :23:25. | :23:31. | |
He is a comedian dem bad taste. He has written a book about this in | :23:31. | :23:37. | |
the '80s or '90. I'm sure if you asked him if he agreed with that. | :23:37. | :23:41. | |
You picked a joker. You will have to ask John O'Farrell. He is your | :23:41. | :23:45. | |
party's candidate. Why have you picked a candidate had said he | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
wanted Britain to lose the Falklands War? It is probably bad | :23:49. | :23:53. | |
humour, him trying to be funny but clearly not. You have picked a | :23:53. | :23:56. | |
joker. We can pick and choose the words of people who have written | :23:56. | :24:01. | |
stuff in the past. He was a fictional writer and comedian. | :24:01. | :24:06. | |
He was expressing political views that he was disappointed the Prime | :24:06. | :24:11. | |
Minister of Britain wasn't murdered by the IRA and he wanted Britain to | :24:11. | :24:16. | |
lose the Falklands. Why are you picking him to fight the Eastleigh | :24:16. | :24:20. | |
by-election? John O'Farrell said these 20 years ago in a book he | :24:20. | :24:26. | |
wrote which was supposed to be funny. Parts of it was, some was in | :24:26. | :24:29. | |
bad taste. It is funny to say that you want the British Prime Minister | :24:29. | :24:34. | |
to be murdered by terrorists. Is that funny? Some is in bad taste | :24:34. | :24:39. | |
but he wrote a book that was funny and witty. If he was here now he | :24:39. | :24:43. | |
would say he doesn't believe that at all. You have been made Shadow | :24:43. | :24:47. | |
Minister for London. Will you one day run for mayor? I have no | :24:47. | :24:52. | |
intentions. My job is to deliver on May 8th 2015 words going round | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
constituencies in London, Labour gain, Labour gain. Who would you | :24:56. | :25:00. | |
like to be mayor? I love this city. It is a city I have been born and | :25:00. | :25:04. | |
raised in. You are a Londoner. Why wouldn't you like to be mayor of | :25:04. | :25:09. | |
the biggest, greatest city in Europe? I wouldn't mind serving in | :25:09. | :25:13. | |
Ed Miliband's Cabinet and being the Lord Chancellor and Justice | :25:13. | :25:16. | |
Secretary proper. You are not quite ruling it out. I love this job. | :25:16. | :25:20. | |
would love being mayor, too. I love being Shadow minute sister for | :25:21. | :25:25. | |
London. Let me see if I can deliver what Ed 45 asked me to do, Labour | :25:25. | :25:29. | |
gains around London. There should be no part of the country, let | :25:29. | :25:33. | |
alone London, which is a no-go area for Labour. David Cameron will be | :25:33. | :25:37. | |
spending most of next week in India. He said last week he likes his | :25:37. | :25:40. | |
curries hot. The main reason for his trip is to boost British | :25:40. | :25:43. | |
business. The Government now defines relations with India is in | :25:43. | :25:48. | |
terms of trade rather than aid it. Announced last year aid programmes | :25:48. | :25:53. | |
to India would be phased out by 2015. Some critics argue it is | :25:53. | :25:55. | |
premature, others question why the Government is increasing an aid | :25:55. | :26:01. | |
budget at all overall at a time of cuts and basic services at home. | :26:01. | :26:09. | |
Susana Mendonsa has been weighing up the arguments. | :26:09. | :26:14. | |
Packed up and ready to go. This is ok familiar's rapid response centre | :26:14. | :26:19. | |
in Bicester, Oxfordshire. -- Oxfam's. If there is a humanitarian | :26:19. | :26:23. | |
disaster somewhere in the world, these boxes get shipped out. All of | :26:23. | :26:27. | |
these could be used in programmes funded by the Department for | :26:27. | :26:29. | |
International Development and David Cameron has made it clear he sees | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
foreign aid as a priority for his Government but should we be | :26:32. | :26:37. | |
spending so much on it, at a time of austerity? Government's spending | :26:37. | :26:41. | |
on oversees aid has jumped from �8.7 billion last year to �11.3 | :26:41. | :26:47. | |
this year. That's in line wits commitment to | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
spend �0.7% of national income on aid by 2013. A UN target which the | :26:51. | :26:56. | |
UK has now reached. With countries like independentia, | :26:56. | :27:00. | |
which has its own space programme on the receiving end, the Prime | :27:00. | :27:04. | |
Minister has faced calls from backbenchers to change force. -- | :27:04. | :27:08. | |
countries like India. The Government announced it'll end up a | :27:08. | :27:15. | |
financial aid to India in 2015. A decision think-tank IPPR has blamed | :27:15. | :27:19. | |
on political pressure. But one former Chancellor says we need to | :27:19. | :27:23. | |
cut back. Because we take the targets seriously, we are giving | :27:23. | :27:26. | |
more aid than any other country in Europe. More in aid than any other | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
country in the world with the exception of the United States, | :27:29. | :27:33. | |
which is of course very much richer and larger than we are. In makes no | :27:33. | :27:38. | |
sense, whatever, particularly at a time of financial stringency, when | :27:38. | :27:42. | |
a lot of important public expenditure programmes in this | :27:42. | :27:47. | |
country are having to be cut back, with great damage to the poor. | :27:47. | :27:51. | |
figures show that 16 out of 23 developed nations cut the amount of | :27:51. | :27:55. | |
money they were spending on aid back in 2011, mainly as a result of | :27:55. | :28:00. | |
the economic crisis. But here David Cameron has | :28:00. | :28:04. | |
continually defended aid spending. I know that some are sceptical | :28:04. | :28:10. | |
about our aid budget. But picture the scene: you're in | :28:10. | :28:15. | |
the health centre in Kinshasa. See the child with a needle in her arm | :28:16. | :28:19. | |
being injected with a yell yes fever vaccine. That's the | :28:19. | :28:25. | |
difference between living and dying. -- yellow fever. How can anyone | :28:25. | :28:30. | |
tells me it is waefs money. Aid agencies like Oxfam agree. | :28:30. | :28:35. | |
These are going out to help 120,000 people who have had to flee the | :28:35. | :28:40. | |
contact in Syria. After a humanitarian crisis, dirty water | :28:40. | :28:44. | |
can kill you this. Technology keeps people alive. There is a concern | :28:44. | :28:49. | |
that the money the Government is sending out isn't going to the rit | :28:49. | :28:53. | |
places. How do we know we are getting value for money. 12 million | :28:54. | :28:59. | |
kids used to die every year from five, now it is down to seven | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
million. Five million children won't die because of the aid. | :29:03. | :29:09. | |
David Cameron has put new goals to end poverty by 2030. The debate on | :29:09. | :29:14. | |
how much we put into foreign aid isn't going away. Justin Forsyth | :29:14. | :29:20. | |
the Chief Executive of Save the Children and author and journalist | :29:20. | :29:27. | |
Jonathan Foreman, go head-to-head. Jonathan Foreman, we heard aid | :29:27. | :29:31. | |
workers saying film there that our aid is saving the lives of millions | :29:32. | :29:35. | |
of young African children. What is wrong with that? Well, what is | :29:35. | :29:39. | |
wrong with that, Andrew, it is not entirely true. We have saved | :29:39. | :29:44. | |
certain numbers of children but the aid industry and the department | :29:44. | :29:48. | |
trot out large numbers that are improveable, like so much in aid | :29:48. | :29:51. | |
and that aren't true. For instance, vaccination, which the Prime | :29:51. | :29:56. | |
Minister refers to, less than 1% of aid budget goes to that. You could | :29:56. | :30:00. | |
put 95% and still be saving the children. I don't think it is true. | :30:00. | :30:05. | |
A huge amount of our aid budget goes towards vaccination and girls' | :30:05. | :30:09. | |
education and training frontline midwives. He says 1% goes. How much | :30:09. | :30:15. | |
do you say? 2011 I think the UK Government made a pledge of over | :30:15. | :30:19. | |
500 million over a if you years for vaccinations that. One intervention | :30:19. | :30:24. | |
the British Prime Minister made in 2011 will vaccinate almost 4 | :30:24. | :30:27. | |
million children and already have saved 1 million children's' lives. | :30:28. | :30:30. | |
We know it has made a big difference. We had the biggest fall | :30:31. | :30:34. | |
in history last year in the number of children that do I from | :30:34. | :30:44. | |
:30:44. | :30:53. | ||
preventable illnesses like do I Vaccination is effective, but it is | :30:53. | :30:59. | |
a tiny part of the Budget. If you are one of the 250 million children | :30:59. | :31:04. | |
that have been vaccinated over the last few years who are live now and | :31:04. | :31:08. | |
have not died of diarrhoea... he says you don't need 11 billion | :31:08. | :31:16. | |
to do that. We are just talking about vaccination, which is one | :31:16. | :31:20. | |
intervention. But across the board, we have made more progress than at | :31:20. | :31:25. | |
any other point in history in eradicating poverty and getting | :31:25. | :31:32. | |
children into school. Economic growth has lifted people out of | :31:32. | :31:37. | |
poverty, and that has not come out of foreign aid. Growth in India | :31:37. | :31:41. | |
that has lifted people out of poverty is to do with home-grown | :31:41. | :31:43. | |
development and businesses and people making money. It is not | :31:43. | :31:48. | |
because of the money taken by officials all over the world. As | :31:48. | :31:51. | |
everyone knows within the aid business, it is a difficult thing | :31:51. | :32:00. | |
to do. You can polarise the debate, but I agree that growth plays a big | :32:00. | :32:05. | |
part. The Chancellor made an important intervention today. But | :32:05. | :32:09. | |
aid targeted on education, health and vaccination is largely where we | :32:10. | :32:16. | |
spend our money, girls' education. Your view of aid is what we used to | :32:16. | :32:19. | |
do 30 years ago. Now, aid is very focused on those things and has | :32:19. | :32:24. | |
made a lot of progress. Eight people have always claimed we used | :32:24. | :32:29. | |
to do it badly, and now we do it well. We did use to do it badly. We | :32:29. | :32:36. | |
used to prop up dictators. And you are not doing it now? No. Take | :32:36. | :32:46. | |
:32:46. | :32:47. | ||
Ethiopia. Take India. It is not just that the Indian government is | :32:47. | :32:53. | |
not particularly keen on it, but we at DFID put a fortune in to aid in | :32:53. | :32:58. | |
India, much of what that she -- much of which are taken by Indian | :32:58. | :33:03. | |
officials. We should have zero tolerance of corruption. But in | :33:03. | :33:08. | |
India, British aid has made a big difference. Let me give you one | :33:08. | :33:13. | |
example. There is a man in India who many years ago, with the | :33:13. | :33:19. | |
support of British aid, helped 39 villages reduced child mortality | :33:19. | :33:22. | |
dramatically by training one woman in each village to do different | :33:22. | :33:26. | |
things. As a result of that tiny intervention, those volunteer | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
health workers are being rolled out of 500 million Indians. That will | :33:30. | :33:37. | |
save a lot of lives. The point is not that no aid works, the point is | :33:37. | :33:41. | |
that a lot of it is wasteful and makes things worse. There is a lack | :33:41. | :33:44. | |
of accountability in the aid business which makes waste | :33:44. | :33:48. | |
inevitable. How much of our aid budget is squandered? It is | :33:48. | :33:53. | |
difficult to know, but we have very rigorous auditing. I agree that we | :33:53. | :33:57. | |
should be transparent and tackle corruption. But if we don't know, | :33:57. | :34:02. | |
we are not transparent, clearly. Well, Justine Greening recently | :34:02. | :34:07. | |
suspended aid to Uganda because of corruption. We stopped aid to or | :34:07. | :34:11. | |
under. There are difficult places, but there are other places which | :34:11. | :34:19. | |
are to important, like Somalia and Pakistan. Bill Gates says that | :34:19. | :34:23. | |
cutting aid would do irreparable damage to global stability, the | :34:23. | :34:26. | |
growth of the global economy and to the livelihood of millions of poor | :34:26. | :34:32. | |
people. It is far more likely to do harm to the livelihood of people in | :34:33. | :34:37. | |
the aid industry. There are 500,000 people in the world in this age | :34:37. | :34:41. | |
business, who carried on without business, regardless of how well it | :34:41. | :34:45. | |
does and are routinely dishonest about how much goes into the | :34:45. | :34:48. | |
pockets of the wrong people. If you go to other countries, you will | :34:48. | :34:52. | |
find that people resent aid programmes when they go into the | :34:52. | :34:56. | |
pockets of corrupt business people. Has any economy in the world been | :34:56. | :35:01. | |
transformed by aid? Lots. We have double-digit growth in African | :35:01. | :35:08. | |
countries. What has that to do with aid? A lot. In the centre of the | :35:08. | :35:11. | |
famine years ago in Ethiopia, I stood in the market where Michael | :35:12. | :35:15. | |
Burke broadcast with dying children around him. That is now a thriving | :35:15. | :35:19. | |
market. The reason those areas have grown economically is because of | :35:19. | :35:24. | |
roads, mobile phones, health clinics, education. Growth comes | :35:24. | :35:28. | |
from private sector investment, but the private sector went there | :35:28. | :35:32. | |
because the government, with eight... The Chinese are building | :35:32. | :35:37. | |
those roads. The Chinese also give aid of. The tragedy of Jonathan's | :35:37. | :35:41. | |
position is that just when we are making dramatic progress to reduce | :35:42. | :35:47. | |
child deaths, he is increasing scepticism over aid. A marketing | :35:47. | :35:52. | |
tends to treat the public as idiotic. You are afraid we will not | :35:53. | :35:56. | |
give you the money if you admit how difficult things are and how much | :35:56. | :36:01. | |
gets wasted. There is an inverse correlation between the most aid | :36:01. | :36:06. | |
and that economic growth. Somalia, Haiti, and a poor, basket cases, | :36:06. | :36:10. | |
and they get the most aid in the world. If you look at countries | :36:10. | :36:15. | |
with spectacular growth - South Korea, Singapore, Taiwan, they did | :36:15. | :36:20. | |
it without aid. If that is not necessarily true. Countries in | :36:20. | :36:24. | |
Africa that have done recently had at both private sector investment | :36:24. | :36:34. | |
:36:34. | :36:36. | ||
and aid. I have just returned from Mogadishu, and nearly half the | :36:36. | :36:41. | |
children are dying in Somalia. They desperately need aid. That is an | :36:41. | :36:46. | |
emergency situation. If we did not invest in Somalia, that would be a | :36:46. | :36:49. | |
conflict for ever. We have to leave it there. | :36:49. | :36:53. | |
You are watching The Sunday Politics. Coming up in 20 minutes, | :36:53. | :36:57. | |
I will look at the week ahead with our political panel. Until then, | :36:57. | :37:07. | |
:37:07. | :37:09. | ||
the Sunday Politics across the UK. Welcome to the London part of the | :37:09. | :37:15. | |
show. Coming up, today, at the congestion charge celebrates its | :37:15. | :37:18. | |
tenth birthday, we will ask the man behind the scheme, Ken Livingstone, | :37:18. | :37:24. | |
if it has worked. With us for the duration, the Conservative MP for | :37:24. | :37:26. | |
Bexley and old Sidcup and Home Office minister James Brokenshire | :37:26. | :37:30. | |
and Dame Tessa Jowell, Labour MP for Dulwich and West Norwood. First, | :37:30. | :37:33. | |
it will be a big seven days for the capital's hospitals. This time next | :37:33. | :37:38. | |
week, we will know the fate of a further half a dozen A&Es. If NHS | :37:38. | :37:42. | |
bosses get their way, six more emergency departments in north-west | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
and south-west London could face the chop, are being downgraded to | :37:45. | :37:49. | |
what they call urgent care centres. The argument is that bigger and | :37:49. | :37:53. | |
fewer units will save more lives. Is it an argument either of you | :37:53. | :37:58. | |
buy? There is an argument to say that if you have certain serious | :37:59. | :38:02. | |
conditions, getting to somewhere to provide the specialist need makes | :38:02. | :38:06. | |
you more likely to recover afterwards. We have seen this with | :38:06. | :38:10. | |
things like stroke. That is the approach being taken here. The | :38:10. | :38:15. | |
question is always about capacity. We have a situation in south-east | :38:15. | :38:18. | |
London, and I was pleased that the Health Secretary said that Lewisham | :38:18. | :38:22. | |
would retain its A&E for the majority of people with cases of | :38:22. | :38:26. | |
need. It is about focusing on getting the best outcome for the | :38:26. | :38:32. | |
local health service. Can we change quite so quickly, though? It seems | :38:32. | :38:36. | |
the pace of change has escalated dramatically in London. There are | :38:36. | :38:40. | |
three things going on at once - the employment of the government's | :38:40. | :38:45. | |
market-led health reforms, the reconfiguration of A&E departments | :38:45. | :38:50. | |
and thirdly, in south London, you have proposals for the merger of | :38:50. | :38:57. | |
King's College Hospital and Guys and Thomas's. That is a lot of | :38:57. | :39:01. | |
disruption for nurses and doctors. And also for patients. It is hard | :39:01. | :39:06. | |
to understand what is going on. A&Es have always been the front | :39:06. | :39:10. | |
door to the NHS, and people don't understand the changes. If you look | :39:10. | :39:15. | |
at A&Es, if you walk in the door, you will be treated there. Most of | :39:15. | :39:20. | |
those emergency cases will not be walking cases. It will be the | :39:20. | :39:23. | |
ambulance that takes you to the most appropriate place. It is the | :39:24. | :39:29. | |
focus on getting the right care quickly. Nobody can disagree with | :39:29. | :39:35. | |
the assertion that any departments should be organised to save the | :39:35. | :39:39. | |
most lives -- accident and emergency departments should save | :39:39. | :39:43. | |
the most lives. Conditions from which people would die ten years | :39:43. | :39:49. | |
ago, they can now survive. But it is a question of trust. If you take | :39:49. | :39:53. | |
the decisions about Lewisham, for instance, where the health | :39:53. | :39:56. | |
secretary has at about 100 lives could be saved, where is the | :39:56. | :40:01. | |
evidence for that? It is hotly contested. You talk about the issue | :40:01. | :40:07. | |
of trust. That is something we will talk about later. But should people | :40:07. | :40:13. | |
listen to politicians? None of you is going to say it is fine to shut | :40:13. | :40:18. | |
my any. You have both campaigned on it. Or should they listen to | :40:18. | :40:24. | |
doctors, who saved lives? evidence should be clinical | :40:24. | :40:32. | |
evidence. And I think politicians should act as the voices of local | :40:32. | :40:41. | |
communities, mediating on a proper solution between what may be | :40:41. | :40:45. | |
difficult factors to reconcile. There has to be that blend of | :40:45. | :40:50. | |
conditions providing their view. But it is not right to say that the | :40:50. | :40:54. | |
public or politicians should be excluded from that. There are often | :40:54. | :40:59. | |
local circumstances. You know your area well. You know the challenges. | :40:59. | :41:03. | |
It is about a blend of bringing together the public with health | :41:03. | :41:08. | |
professionals to make sure we get the right outcome. Accepting that | :41:08. | :41:12. | |
there are financial issues here, some of those PFI debts are | :41:12. | :41:19. | |
unsustainable. We will hear a lot more about that next week. | :41:19. | :41:23. | |
Now, it might seem like a daft question, but how would you like to | :41:23. | :41:27. | |
save hundreds of pounds off your energy bill? A bit of a no-brainer, | :41:27. | :41:32. | |
you might think, and that is what London's councils are hoping. In a | :41:32. | :41:36. | |
week, there are launching what they have called the Big London Energy | :41:36. | :41:39. | |
Switch. The idea is to get a million Londoners to sign up and | :41:39. | :41:42. | |
then use that support to hammer out the cheapest deal from the energy | :41:42. | :41:48. | |
companies. But is it the best way to bring down our bills? | :41:48. | :41:52. | |
Trudy Kennedy retired four years ago. Without a regular salary, she | :41:52. | :41:56. | |
has had to make changes. The only way you can accommodate that is to | :41:57. | :42:02. | |
cut back on your heating. I switch off my heating when I go out. And | :42:02. | :42:11. | |
we enjoy our snuggle blankets. I did wear a hat indoors, because it | :42:11. | :42:16. | |
keeps you warm. You have to economise. You could cut back on | :42:16. | :42:23. | |
your food. But the bills have to be met. But today, she is being told | :42:23. | :42:28. | |
about the Big London Energy Switch, due to launch in a few weeks. It is | :42:28. | :42:32. | |
a new plan from London councils, designed to help with energy bills | :42:32. | :42:35. | |
and spearheaded by her local authority, Kingston. It works like | :42:35. | :42:39. | |
this. At the moment, we all go around as individuals and find the | :42:39. | :42:43. | |
best deal for our household energy bills, if we have the time and | :42:43. | :42:48. | |
inclination. But under the scheme, anyone in London can sign up, a | :42:48. | :42:53. | |
group together and use one huge new contract to get a big discount from | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
the energy company who wins it. The target is to get 1 million people | :42:57. | :43:00. | |
involved, and could save households hundreds of pounds. A similar | :43:00. | :43:05. | |
scheme run by the consumer group Which? took an average 230 quid off | :43:05. | :43:10. | |
the bills of 38,000 households. Perhaps all very laudable, but | :43:10. | :43:14. | |
their -- but our local councils the best people to do this? Not | :43:14. | :43:18. | |
according to some. The air is a big distortion of the market here. If | :43:18. | :43:23. | |
London councils do this together, combined as one, it is nearly | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
impossible for smaller groups to enter the market. If there was a | :43:28. | :43:31. | |
particular housing estate that thought, if we all get together, we | :43:31. | :43:35. | |
might be able to cut a deal, that becomes crowded out. This is true | :43:36. | :43:40. | |
of vast amounts of government policy. However well-intentioned, | :43:40. | :43:45. | |
it prevents more spontaneous, smarter actions growing up in the | :43:45. | :43:51. | |
free market. Brixton energy in Lambeth. Even on a cold day like | :43:51. | :43:57. | |
this, these co-operatively owned panels generate enough energy to | :43:57. | :44:01. | |
power the building. Texas Energy is sold to the National Grid. It pays | :44:01. | :44:04. | |
for apprenticeships for young kids, advice on how to cut bills and a | :44:04. | :44:08. | |
small profit for the people involved. The man who set this up | :44:08. | :44:12. | |
thinks the council's energies which will not help the most vulnerable. | :44:12. | :44:16. | |
There are vulnerable people who do not have internet connections or a | :44:16. | :44:23. | |
bank account who will be missed by this. We have people dying in | :44:23. | :44:30. | |
Lambeth off fuel poverty because they are just cold. Perhaps the | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
biggest challenge for the England and energy switch - there rain to | :44:34. | :44:38. | |
get 1 million people signed up by April. If they can't do that, their | :44:39. | :44:44. | |
ability to drive a good deal will be seriously challenged. | :44:44. | :44:47. | |
Joining us is Catherine West, who as well as being leader of | :44:47. | :44:52. | |
Islington council, is also chair of London Councils' transport and | :44:52. | :44:55. | |
environment committee. This is your baby, and you have a challenge to | :44:55. | :44:59. | |
sign 1 million people up in ten weeks. It clearly, councils are at | :44:59. | :45:06. | |
the heart of the community. As we go about our daily duties, we are | :45:06. | :45:10. | |
identifying people who are fuel poor, those who cannot afford the | :45:10. | :45:15. | |
huge bills coming from the private companies. We will join together as | :45:15. | :45:20. | |
boroughs to purchase energy on behalf of people, and then | :45:20. | :45:23. | |
encourage people to switch to a cheaper product. But for this to | :45:23. | :45:28. | |
work, you need to get an awful lot of signatures. How are you doing? | :45:28. | :45:33. | |
Well, this ground has only just come through from the government, | :45:33. | :45:39. | |
but we hope to reach their landlords for thousands -- we are | :45:39. | :45:43. | |
the landlords for thousands of people, so we can contact them | :45:43. | :45:48. | |
directly. We on the side of people in times and we are trying to | :45:48. | :45:55. | |
assist. We can also communicate with a lot of people through our | :45:55. | :45:59. | |
housing services. There is something in it for you as well. | :45:59. | :46:03. | |
Councils can get money out of this? The air is a small management fee | :46:03. | :46:10. | |
which we will then recycled back into the scheme. The EU will get | :46:10. | :46:17. | |
�15 for every customer? The yes, and councils will than use that for | :46:17. | :46:27. | |
:46:27. | :46:29. | ||
We feel we'd have the best interests at heart. All of the | :46:29. | :46:32. | |
private companies aren't necessarily setting upt best deal. | :46:33. | :46:36. | |
Couldn't the councils go to energy companies and saying - we spend | :46:36. | :46:40. | |
money on electricity, do us a good deal? Is that something which do | :46:40. | :46:43. | |
you? It is something we can do. would strike a lot of people as | :46:43. | :46:47. | |
that being the best way forward to. Get the big public institutions to | :46:47. | :46:52. | |
use their power, flex their muscles. We could. We want to give it | :46:52. | :46:55. | |
directly back to the residents. We have to redus our own bills, of | :46:55. | :47:00. | |
course, which is what we need to do. We care about people's pockets. If | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
we reduce our own costs as a council that's not necessarily | :47:03. | :47:07. | |
going back into the pockets of the people hit by resenges and | :47:07. | :47:12. | |
Government cuts. What about -- recession. What about what Mark | :47:12. | :47:17. | |
Littlewood was talking bby councils getting together you squeeze out | :47:17. | :47:22. | |
smaller projects, and you say - we have more muscle and the energy | :47:22. | :47:27. | |
companies will deal with you. use our fee to recycle it back into | :47:27. | :47:31. | |
paying for solar panels. Because we have been hit with Government cuts. | :47:31. | :47:36. | |
We don't have the capital we need to do the solar schemes. However if | :47:36. | :47:40. | |
we manage this well, we can recycle the money back into more | :47:40. | :47:44. | |
interesting schemes around solar panels. Is this a win-win, James? | :47:44. | :47:51. | |
You are not James, hang on, I think it is ral interesting scheme. I'm | :47:51. | :47:56. | |
pleased London borough of Bexley is supporting this by signing up to it. | :47:56. | :47:59. | |
It is a question of how we can ensure ordinary consumers can get | :47:59. | :48:04. | |
best deal available. I think it's complimentary of the steps the | :48:04. | :48:08. | |
Government is taking on the energy bill to make sure the best tar | :48:08. | :48:12. | |
riffs available and we're getting clarity as well as the green deal, | :48:12. | :48:17. | |
to ensure there is the focus on people being able to take steps to | :48:17. | :48:21. | |
insulate their home and therefore consume less energy. I will gaive | :48:21. | :48:28. | |
turn, now, Jess is a. -- I will give you. | :48:28. | :48:33. | |
Shall Tessa. I think there is a benefit. And there is the benefit | :48:33. | :48:37. | |
of creating this huge consumer buying power but alongside it | :48:37. | :48:42. | |
creating a capital fund. Certainly the Brixton solar energy project | :48:42. | :48:46. | |
has been incredibly successful. It's already won a sustainibility | :48:46. | :48:50. | |
award. I think that we will see, across London, as a response to the | :48:50. | :48:56. | |
cuts, more money coming out of the market. This pulling of resources | :48:56. | :49:00. | |
in order to deprive collective benefit. We'll leave that there, | :49:00. | :49:06. | |
James. You jumped in early. I'll stop you now. | :49:06. | :49:10. | |
I need to talk about the green deal. We'll move on to something else, | :49:10. | :49:14. | |
green. The congestion charge is ten years' old today. The mayor | :49:14. | :49:18. | |
announced plans it make central London more imprentabl for some | :49:18. | :49:23. | |
drivers, suggesting a ban for all but the most environmentally | :49:23. | :49:27. | |
friendly cars, not though, until four years after he has left office. | :49:27. | :49:32. | |
Has the chdge done the job it was supposed to? And what will it look | :49:32. | :49:36. | |
like in the future? -- has the congestion charge. | :49:36. | :49:41. | |
The congestion charge, it has become an every day part of driving | :49:41. | :49:46. | |
in London. Since its introduction it's raised TfL over �1 billion. | :49:46. | :49:51. | |
But while it may have been a financial success, hau has it | :49:51. | :49:55. | |
faired in tackling congestion charge? London's transport has been | :49:55. | :49:58. | |
charge? London's transport has been redused. | :49:58. | :50:02. | |
The but the congestion tells another story. Average traffic | :50:02. | :50:07. | |
speeds in central London have go the slower, falling during both the | :50:07. | :50:10. | |
morning and evening peak times. think the congestion charge has | :50:10. | :50:14. | |
think the congestion charge has failed in its main objective. It | :50:14. | :50:18. | |
was to reduce congestion which is demonstrably worse. The truth is | :50:18. | :50:22. | |
there is a nice couple of hundred million that the Mayor of London | :50:22. | :50:25. | |
has to play, with which is additional to the money that they | :50:25. | :50:28. | |
get from fares at TfL. I think frankly it is an irrelevance now it. | :50:28. | :50:32. | |
Would be a brave mayor who scrapped it because they want the couple of | :50:32. | :50:36. | |
hundred million but is it serving any purpose other than filling the | :50:36. | :50:41. | |
mayoral coffers? No, clearly not. This week the mayor signalled a ger | :50:41. | :50:45. | |
change. Instead congestion, Boris Johnson wants it make London air | :50:45. | :50:50. | |
his priority and is proposing to van all of the but the greenest of | :50:50. | :50:55. | |
cars from the centre? We are setting out a reasonable timetable | :50:55. | :51:00. | |
for Hague an all tra low emissions zone in London. We have to takele | :51:00. | :51:04. | |
air pollution. Premature deaths around 4,000 and babies' lungs not | :51:04. | :51:07. | |
developing properly and there is an opportunity now to be fair with | :51:07. | :51:10. | |
consumers and the motor manufacturers and set out a | :51:10. | :51:13. | |
practical timetable. Such plans within the come into | :51:13. | :51:17. | |
place until 2020. Not just the next mayoral election, but the one after, | :51:18. | :51:22. | |
that meaning the current mayor could be long gone before cars see | :51:22. | :51:28. | |
a red light in the centre of London. Jennifer Conway and joining us the | :51:28. | :51:33. | |
man gave the C word respectability, former mayor, Ken Livingstone. The | :51:33. | :51:36. | |
man responsible for the congestion charge. How has your baby grown up? | :51:36. | :51:40. | |
Well people think it was my idea it. Wasn't. It was the business | :51:40. | :51:43. | |
community in London came up for this. You took the credit. Rpblgts | :51:43. | :51:49. | |
happy to do that. They came to -- Happy to do that. They came to me | :51:49. | :51:53. | |
and other candidates to say - if you don't reduce congestion, firms | :51:53. | :51:57. | |
will leave London. Although it has got worse in the last couple of | :51:57. | :52:04. | |
yeevers we were down to nine-and-a- half miles per hour. The congestion | :52:04. | :52:08. | |
charge put it up to 12.5. But it allowed the bus system to get | :52:08. | :52:13. | |
reborn. It used to be the very poorest people on the buses. Now | :52:13. | :52:19. | |
all classes are on the buses. it done enough? Could you have been | :52:19. | :52:22. | |
bolder perhaps at the time? achieved all we need at the | :52:22. | :52:27. | |
beginning. One factor is we are building CrossRail. Look at the | :52:27. | :52:30. | |
huge chaos around Tottenham court Road and the other stations. This | :52:30. | :52:36. | |
is having an effect. This will be come improvement when the CrossRail | :52:36. | :52:39. | |
construction finishes. What Boris is saying is right, the world is | :52:39. | :52:43. | |
moving on. Other cities are talking about low emission zones. We now | :52:43. | :52:47. | |
know far more people are dying of air quality than we thought. I just | :52:47. | :52:51. | |
think it is wrong to wait seven years when you know 4,000 people a | :52:51. | :52:56. | |
year are dying. Not just a few months, but on average, 11 years | :52:56. | :53:03. | |
prem touring. Do you think on retrospect you could have gone down | :53:03. | :53:08. | |
the pollution liner that than congestion line? We Zwe set up the | :53:08. | :53:12. | |
low emissions zone. It came in shortly before I lost the first | :53:12. | :53:16. | |
election to Boris. There were various stages, Boris put one back. | :53:16. | :53:21. | |
If I won the election last May we were going to accelerate it. It is | :53:21. | :53:27. | |
not acceptable that people are having heart attacks, developing | :53:27. | :53:31. | |
cancers and cids having crippling asthma and we are told we'll wait | :53:32. | :53:37. | |
seven years. -- You were famous for calling the US am abouts doer a | :53:37. | :53:41. | |
chiselling little brook. But that doesn't seem to have changed. The | :53:41. | :53:46. | |
embassies don't seem to be paying. American embassies started paying. | :53:46. | :53:50. | |
George Bush appointed this hardline manufacturer, a motor manufacturer | :53:50. | :53:54. | |
fromical foreignia. He stopped paying. Now Londoners are owed | :53:54. | :53:59. | |
about �100 million, I think it is. Is it time they coughed up? It is | :53:59. | :54:03. | |
outrageous. We were sending young English men and women to die in | :54:03. | :54:07. | |
Iraq to fight America's wars. Here was their ambassador treating us | :54:07. | :54:12. | |
with contempt in their own city. Away from the Iraq war - not sure | :54:12. | :54:16. | |
we are moving to there, off congestion, in terms of where the | :54:16. | :54:21. | |
charge goes from here, has it got a future? Or, as Steve Norris says, | :54:21. | :54:25. | |
it is such a cash cow now for Transport for London. �1 billion | :54:25. | :54:30. | |
over ten years. It is about 1% of City Hall income. There are much | :54:30. | :54:33. | |
easiers ways of getting money than the congestion charge. If you | :54:33. | :54:38. | |
stopped it tomorrow, suddenly it would be gridlock again and | :54:38. | :54:44. | |
everyone wouldcy - you've gone mad that's why. People said about you | :54:44. | :54:48. | |
when you brought it In Boris Johnson is pro-car. He would loved | :54:48. | :54:52. | |
to have stopped it if he could and getted contract. He know fes does, | :54:53. | :55:00. | |
London can come to a stand still D- - he knows, if he did. | :55:00. | :55:10. | |
Tessa, you can go first this time. I was rude last time. I agree with | :55:10. | :55:13. | |
Kent. The question with the congestion charge is to what extent | :55:13. | :55:17. | |
it is a deterrent about bringing cars in and to what extent it is | :55:17. | :55:20. | |
about dealing with pollution. The mayor has clearly put his priority, | :55:20. | :55:24. | |
policy on the second of those. he right? Saying it is a waive | :55:24. | :55:29. | |
tackling dangerous pollution. But I agree with Ken. You don't have to | :55:29. | :55:33. | |
deal with it it on that time scale. There will be a generation of | :55:33. | :55:39. | |
children... Do you think he should hurry up a bit before then? | :55:39. | :55:42. | |
blend on having the issue on congestion and dealing with | :55:42. | :55:45. | |
environmental issues is an important one. I think Boris is | :55:45. | :55:51. | |
right to bring forward the concept of the ultra-Low Emission Zone. | :55:51. | :55:56. | |
2020, that's where the criticism is. The Transport for London has closed | :55:56. | :56:04. | |
on a consulation with a low emission contract to have | :56:04. | :56:08. | |
incentives on the vehicles. Steps are being taken already on how we | :56:08. | :56:11. | |
can incentivise the right behaviour and the congestion charge has made | :56:11. | :56:15. | |
a difference. It is around 60,000 fewer vehicles going in and out. It | :56:15. | :56:20. | |
is important to note as part of this and whilst Ken and I may have | :56:20. | :56:24. | |
difference on a number of different issues and have done over the years, | :56:24. | :56:27. | |
I would recognise that the congestion charge has made a real | :56:27. | :56:31. | |
difference and I'm pleased bore sis taking this forward anddling with | :56:31. | :56:35. | |
the issue -- Boris is taking this forward and dealing with issues | :56:36. | :56:39. | |
around congestion and the environment. I think the most | :56:39. | :56:42. | |
amazing thing after two-and-a-half years of the newspaper saying it | :56:42. | :56:47. | |
was a disaster, it came in and worked. It was a shock on something | :56:47. | :56:53. | |
that had been predicted. On the day there wasn't a tailback. There was | :56:53. | :56:57. | |
a snailback a man following you around. Yes, and not all with the | :56:57. | :57:02. | |
rest of you. I think we'll leave it there on political consensus, which | :57:02. | :57:07. | |
is unusual. That was the round-up of the last ten years of the | :57:07. | :57:12. | |
congestion charge. Now a round-up of the rest of the political news | :57:12. | :57:16. | |
in 60 Seconds. Boris Johnson is taking legal action against the | :57:16. | :57:20. | |
London Fire Authority after the body refused his order to consult | :57:20. | :57:26. | |
on fire station closures. He wants to press ahead with proposals it | :57:26. | :57:31. | |
save �45 million with the closure of 12 fire stations and loss of 18 | :57:31. | :57:35. | |
engines. London's mayor has been criticising for failing to spend | :57:35. | :57:39. | |
the �100 million proproviding by the Government to invest in the | :57:39. | :57:43. | |
economy and create jobs. Business minister, Michael fallen has warned | :57:43. | :57:46. | |
London is behind other cities in its efforts to boost growth. | :57:46. | :57:51. | |
Passengers using Heathrow can face a rise in ticket prices, if a �3 | :57:51. | :57:55. | |
billion fif-year investment plan is approve. Heathrow wants to inees | :57:55. | :58:00. | |
charges for airlines to use the airport between 2014 and 2019. A | :58:01. | :58:06. | |
London council has introduced on- the-spot justice for those caught | :58:06. | :58:10. | |
spitting in the streets. Waltham Forest said its enforcement | :58:10. | :58:18. | |
officers were to issue fixed penalty notices. | :58:18. | :58:24. | |
Now, I was going to ask you two about the 60 Seconds but disturbing | :58:24. | :58:30. | |
news has reached us of a poll of politicians -- about politicians | :58:30. | :58:35. | |
this week and it says, no-one trusts you, so I won't ask you. 18% | :58:35. | :58:42. | |
the levels, what with do we think about that? Are you trustworthy? | :58:42. | :58:46. | |
always think to ask the public whether they trust politicians as a | :58:46. | :58:50. | |
collective is too high a test. You can have confidence in the fact | :58:50. | :58:54. | |
that they are on your - that you hope, I mean I hope that people | :58:54. | :58:57. | |
think that the Labour Party, that Labour politicians are on their | :58:57. | :59:01. | |
side. I think people are more likely to trust their local Member | :59:01. | :59:08. | |
of Parliament. But we took a battering over expenses. The point | :59:08. | :59:13. | |
with Chris Huhne I think is one Tessa has identified. It is about | :59:13. | :59:16. | |
the local link about how we are having it make difficult decisions | :59:16. | :59:20. | |
at the difficult economic times, to Dell with the problems of the | :59:20. | :59:23. | |
deficit and all those things and how we communicate. It is | :59:23. | :59:26. | |
challenging. We still have a heck of a way to go. It is about getting | :59:26. | :59:30. | |
out into communities and being part of it. I think that's where you can | :59:30. | :59:35. | |
make the difference as a politician, so hold our hands up, that we | :59:35. | :59:39. | |
recognise the polling. You will appreciate to no, journal is didn't | :59:39. | :59:46. | |
do too much better. We are only 21%. -- You will appreciate to know. | :59:46. | :59:48. | |
still doesn't mean that seeking election to represent the people | :59:48. | :59:52. | |
isn't a good and honourable thing to do. Thank you for your company | :59:52. | :59:56. | |
this week. We are off for half-term, but Tim is back in two weeks' time. | :59:56. | :00:06. | |
:00:06. | :00:16. | ||
Now been used. Good afternoon. The Home Secretary | :00:16. | :00:19. | |
has promised new laws to stop foreign criminals avoiding | :00:19. | :00:23. | |
deportation by claiming the right to a family life. In a newspaper | :00:23. | :00:26. | |
interview, Theresa May accused some judges of ignoring government | :00:27. | :00:29. | |
guidelines which say a prisoner's human rights should be balanced | :00:30. | :00:34. | |
against any risk to the public. The chief executive of the | :00:34. | :00:38. | |
supermarket chain Iceland has blamed local authorities for | :00:38. | :00:41. | |
driving down the quality of food. Commenting on the horse with | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
scandal, Malcolm Walker claimed local councils gave catering | :00:45. | :00:49. | |
contracts for schools and hospitals based solely on cost. He insisted | :00:49. | :00:53. | |
that supermarkets went to enormous lengths to ensure food safety and | :00:53. | :00:58. | |
were not responsible for the crisis. There is a whole side to this | :00:58. | :01:02. | |
industry which is invisible. That is the catering industry. Schools, | :01:02. | :01:07. | |
hospitals. It is a massive business for cheap food, and local | :01:07. | :01:11. | |
authorities award contracts based purely on price. If you are looking | :01:11. | :01:17. | |
to blame somebody for driving down food quality, it is invisible. It | :01:17. | :01:22. | |
is schools, hospitals, prisons and local authorities driving this down. | :01:22. | :01:26. | |
Police in Nigeria say a gunmen kidnapped seven foreign workers | :01:26. | :01:30. | |
including a Briton from a construction company. The attack | :01:30. | :01:37. | |
happened in a north-east state. Police say a prisoner was targeted | :01:37. | :01:41. | |
first before they caught him. A teenager was shot in his London | :01:41. | :01:45. | |
last night. He was packed in Clapton. A 52-year-old man was also | :01:45. | :01:50. | |
shot and injured. He is in hospital in a stable condition. | :01:50. | :01:53. | |
An investigation has started after a woman was killed by a car | :01:53. | :01:57. | |
competing in the Scottish Rally Championships. 50-year-old Joy | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
Robson was watching the rally near Loch Ness yesterday when have -- | :02:00. | :02:04. | |
when a vehicle left the track and hit spectators. Two others | :02:04. | :02:07. | |
including an eight-year-old boy were injured. | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
AB dish teenager was lost in the Australian outback for more than | :02:11. | :02:14. | |
three days says he was on his last legs when he was found. Samuel | :02:14. | :02:18. | |
would head went missing on Tuesday after leaving a cattle station in | :02:18. | :02:21. | |
Queensland to go jogging. He lost more than two stone in weight | :02:22. | :02:28. | |
during his ordeal and stayed alive by drinking contact lens solution. | :02:28. | :02:35. | |
There will be more news on BBC One at 6.05. | :02:35. | :02:40. | |
So, David Cameron is off to India next week. It is the Brit Awards | :02:40. | :02:44. | |
and London Fashion Week, which probably explains why Janan is | :02:44. | :02:48. | |
otherwise engaged. And I expect that the horsemeat scandal will | :02:48. | :02:51. | |
rear its head again. If you have forgotten about all the fuss, here | :02:51. | :03:00. | |
is a taste of it. The committee was shocked and consumers have been | :03:00. | :03:09. | |
shocked to see how widespread this contamination scandal has become. | :03:09. | :03:15. | |
Many of his answers contain 100% bull. It is a good line, but this | :03:15. | :03:19. | |
is a serious issue. Minister has have been asleep on the job on this. | :03:19. | :03:24. | |
They cannot keep hiding behind FSA officials when they have been | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
catastrophically slow to act. not for me to micromanage food | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
businesses, it is for them to reassure the public. I am doing | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
this interview because it is the first moment I could have done that | :03:35. | :03:40. | |
interview. Nothing is more important to us at Tesco and the | :03:40. | :03:45. | |
trust of you, our customers. Every day, I strode a house -- a horse | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
near the house, and I would not want to eat it. In the Prime | :03:50. | :03:56. | |
Minister is serious about tackling the problem of misleading labelling | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
and the contamination of product, what future is there for this | :04:00. | :04:05. | |
coalition with the Lib Dems? coalition must be clearly labelled | :04:05. | :04:15. | |
:04:15. | :04:15. | ||
at all points. Isabel, is there not a sense that | :04:15. | :04:21. | |
the Government has yet to get a grip of this? I see it as more of a | :04:21. | :04:26. | |
consumer issue than a government issue. Why have we got these things | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
getting into the food system? Because of our insatiable demand. | :04:29. | :04:36. | |
We are all guilty of it, for cheap meat. But there is also a danger | :04:36. | :04:40. | |
that we will get a bit desensitised about here had -- how serious the | :04:40. | :04:45. | |
problem is. That was quite a jokey clip. I saw a headline a few days | :04:45. | :04:50. | |
ago saying something like "a horse in school dinners" and I shrug it | :04:50. | :04:55. | |
off a bit. Six weeks ago, one would have been horrified. It now seems | :04:55. | :04:59. | |
to be descending into a national joke. Actually, the issues are too | :04:59. | :05:04. | |
serious to make light off. It's may be because it is as yet, an issue | :05:04. | :05:09. | |
of food labelling rather than food safety. The country does not seem | :05:09. | :05:13. | |
to a lot, although it does seem to want to think the Government knows | :05:13. | :05:16. | |
what it is doing. They week ago, the Government fear was that it was | :05:16. | :05:20. | |
going to be one of those stories that consumes the Government. But | :05:20. | :05:25. | |
that has not happened. I suspect the public actually really quite | :05:25. | :05:32. | |
cynical over this. They accept that it involves European regulation, | :05:32. | :05:36. | |
the Food Standards Authority, all of that stuff. It is not something | :05:36. | :05:41. | |
that they directly blamed this Government for. So there is a lot | :05:41. | :05:47. | |
of relief in the government. Does this story not have legs? Well, | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
horses certainly have legs, although not when they are in a | :05:50. | :05:56. | |
burger. It is not the government's fault that some dodgy outfits are | :05:56. | :06:00. | |
passing of horse as burgers. It is not their fault that there are | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
these ridiculously long supply chains that mean a company here or | :06:03. | :06:06. | |
do something, then it goes to France and then the Netherlands and | :06:06. | :06:11. | |
then Romania and ends up as horse in a burger. What is their fault is | :06:11. | :06:16. | |
that they don't seem to have got a grip of this. There is one | :06:16. | :06:21. | |
immediate reason, which is that this is about labelling rather than | :06:21. | :06:26. | |
health. There is a deeper problem, which is that this Government is | :06:26. | :06:29. | |
wary of government. Steve Hilton, before they came to power, would | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
always say, we don't want the Government to be blamed for | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
everything. We want individual companies to take responsibility. | :06:36. | :06:41. | |
But on something like this, you expected Downing Street and | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
Environment Secretary to sit down, work out what they were going to | :06:45. | :06:51. | |
say, and they have not got hold of that. But I don't see how they can | :06:51. | :06:58. | |
get a grip of it. A get a grip on the messaging. It is about | :06:58. | :07:03. | |
multinational systems. You can get a grip on messaging. Owen Patterson | :07:03. | :07:08. | |
has looked completely insecure. Last Friday, we had the absurd | :07:08. | :07:11. | |
spectacle of Downing Street blaming the supermarkets for not coming out | :07:12. | :07:16. | |
and talking. Well, neither have ministers. It has not looked like | :07:16. | :07:23. | |
they have a grip of the messaging. Of course it is not their fault. | :07:23. | :07:28. | |
it turns into for help scare, the government is in real trouble. | :07:28. | :07:35. | |
that happens, Owen Patterson's career is over. At the moment, the | :07:35. | :07:39. | |
public is not as angry as the media presumed it would be. A let me show | :07:39. | :07:47. | |
you this headline from the Mail on Sunday today. It is provocative. | :07:47. | :07:53. | |
This is a Lib Dem policy commission, looking at various ways to extend | :07:53. | :07:58. | |
the tax. They are even talking about the mansion tax covering you | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
if you own two or three properties. I am told Vince Cable said the idea | :08:02. | :08:08. | |
of taxing jewellery is absurd and it will not happen. It is an | :08:08. | :08:12. | |
interesting direction the country is going in. We seem to have two | :08:12. | :08:16. | |
political parties, Labour and the Lib Dems, who are looking for more | :08:16. | :08:21. | |
ways to tax those who are better off. I think Vince Cable is right. | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
If that policy happens, I will come back on this show and dance the | :08:25. | :08:30. | |
fandango. The end we all hope it happens. We will have to speak to | :08:30. | :08:36. | |
Lib Dems to make sure this is part of their policy. But you are right, | :08:36. | :08:39. | |
the Lib Dems have long been trying to find a way to extract more money | :08:39. | :08:44. | |
from those of Dacey as super rich. I don't think rummaging through | :08:44. | :08:48. | |
people's jewellery draws is a way that will work. But 13 years, we | :08:48. | :08:51. | |
had a Labour government who thought at the top rate of tax should not | :08:51. | :08:56. | |
be more than 40%. They also worried that if they put it up, tax | :08:56. | :09:00. | |
revenues might actually fall. But now you have Labour and the Lib | :09:00. | :09:03. | |
Dems, and it could be a problem for the recession when ordinary | :09:03. | :09:07. | |
people's living standards are being squeezed that there is a mood on | :09:07. | :09:15. | |
the centre-left of politics to up the ante on tax for the better off. | :09:15. | :09:18. | |
You might have to dance that fandango in the end. This is the | :09:18. | :09:22. | |
direction in which politics is going in the UK after the financial | :09:22. | :09:26. | |
crisis. It is possible to imagine coalition negotiations after the | :09:26. | :09:30. | |
next election in which it is Ed Miliband, Vince Cable and others | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
negotiating a package of tax rises on the wealthy that include a | :09:35. | :09:39. | |
mansion tax, taxes like this. This is ultimately my problem with | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
wealth tax, that once you start with a mansion tax, within months | :09:44. | :09:48. | |
you end up in all sorts of other strange areas that cross into | :09:48. | :09:53. | |
property rights. I have some bad news. I don't think Isobel will | :09:53. | :10:01. | |
have to dance the mad fandango, because there are many mad outfits, | :10:01. | :10:07. | |
and this idea of jewellery tax comes from the body that lumbered | :10:07. | :10:09. | |
the Liberal Democrat party with their tuition fee policy at the | :10:09. | :10:14. | |
last election. So there will not be a tax on jewellery. There may be a | :10:14. | :10:20. | |
mansion tax. That is about the politics of now, not the politics | :10:20. | :10:24. | |
of their manifesto for 2015. It is the politics of embarrassing the | :10:24. | :10:28. | |
Liberal Democrats by holding a vote in the House of Commons. It is | :10:28. | :10:32. | |
getting David Cameron to go on TV and say why it would be a bad thing | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
for people with properties of over 2 million to pay more in tax. It is | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
not about what will be in the manifesto. I and Labour will | :10:41. | :10:46. | |
embarrass the Lib Dems, whose idea the mansion tax is, by coming back | :10:46. | :10:51. | |
from the mid-term break and put enough motion down in favour of the | :10:51. | :10:55. | |
mansion tax to challenge the Liberal damp -- at the Liberals to | :10:55. | :10:59. | |
say, this is your policy, vote for it. That is right. In theory, they | :10:59. | :11:04. | |
should have a majority in the House of Commons for that. This is | :11:04. | :11:09. | |
potentially opening up a new political front where Labour and | :11:09. | :11:12. | |
Lib Dems were working closer together. But when I put that to | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
some of Labour's spin-doctors yesterday, they were really pushing | :11:15. | :11:20. | |
back on that, saying that actually, they see the Lib Dems as | :11:20. | :11:25. | |
accomplices in the coalition. We are not trying to embrace them. The | :11:25. | :11:30. | |
Tories may take some comfort from that. The Liberal Democrats would | :11:30. | :11:34. | |
say it is much more significant, what they are doing, raising the | :11:34. | :11:41. | |
tax threshold up to �10,000 by 2014. All Labour are talking about is | :11:41. | :11:49. | |
people earning between �10,000 and �11,000 getting about a �1,100 a | :11:49. | :11:52. | |
year. The Lib Dems would say they have done the heavy lifting on | :11:52. | :11:57. | |
raising VAT threshold. It is very smart politics. I am opposed to a | :11:57. | :12:00. | |
mansion tax, but it is a very clever piece of positioning, for | :12:01. | :12:07. | |
now. Those who advocate mansion taxes can often not explain exactly | :12:07. | :12:12. | |
how it will be implemented. Because we can't get the details, it seems | :12:12. | :12:15. | |
that no party in favour of it has done much thought on how it would | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
be implemented. But the mood is interesting. If you look at the | :12:19. | :12:24. | |
polls at the moment and particularly the failure of the | :12:24. | :12:28. | |
boundary changes, at the moment an overall Tory majority by 2015 is | :12:29. | :12:33. | |
probably the least likely outcome. It could change, but that is how it | :12:33. | :12:39. | |
looks at the moment. Labour could go into a coalition with the Lib | :12:39. | :12:44. | |
Dems, and then the mood towards more taxation on the wealthy has | :12:44. | :12:49. | |
changed. We would be back with the '60s and '70s rather than the '80s | :12:49. | :12:55. | |
under the Tories or the '90s under Labour. There is a move to the left | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
over taxation in a significant way. That is a problem for the | :12:58. | :13:07. | |
Conservatives, because they do not have unauthentic low-tax message. | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
What is interesting about this mansion tax policy for the Labour | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
Party is that they are portraying it as the burying of Gordon Brown. | :13:14. | :13:20. | |
It is really the burying of Tony Blair. Tony Blair said it to tax | :13:20. | :13:23. | |
with care, because you have to think not just of the people who | :13:23. | :13:26. | |
will be immediately tax, it is those who fear they are going to be | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
taxed. There are people in terraced houses in south west London who | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
will be living in fear that if Ed Miliband becomes prime minister, | :13:33. | :13:43. | |
:13:43. | :13:45. | ||
they will face �2,000 a month. That breaks the law of Tony Blair. | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
of �100,000 is a lot more than 50% of nothing. In other words, if you | :13:49. | :13:56. | |
put it up, the people in that bracket disappear. Ed Miliband does | :13:56. | :14:00. | |
not think that. Where you are right is that Labour still have a big | :14:01. | :14:06. | |
problem on the economy. We have added one trillion to the national | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
debt as a country. We have been running huge deficits for five | :14:09. | :14:13. | |
years, and it has not delivered growth. And Labour's answer on how | :14:14. | :14:17. | |
to bring down the deficit is to increase the deficit. That is the | :14:17. | :14:22. | |
core problem that Labour faces. Nick, you are off with the Prime | :14:22. | :14:27. | |
Minister to India later today. This is fundamentally a trade mission. | :14:27. | :14:33. | |
He is going to drum up business for Britain. Will he try and get these | :14:33. | :14:40. | |
fighter jets that the French snuck in, will he took them out of that? | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
They are hoping for that, because Francois Hollande was in India last | :14:43. | :14:48. | |
week, and they failed to do the final signing on those jets. It is | :14:48. | :14:52. | |
a $14 billion deal. David Cameron will say to his Indian counterpart, | :14:52. | :14:57. | |
if you have problems on that front, don't forget that the Euro fighter | :14:57. | :15:00. | |
typhoons are still there. I was there on his first official visit | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
to India in 2010, when he set a target of doubling trade between | :15:04. | :15:09. | |
Britain and India by 2015. In the first two years after he visited, | :15:09. | :15:14. | |
trade went up. Last year, it was flat or even went down, but they | :15:14. | :15:17. | |
are confident that they are on target. Do you know what he hopes | :15:17. | :15:23. | |
to come backwards? I am sure he had to come back with a trade deal, but | :15:23. | :15:26. | |
mainly, it is about maintaining the relationship. It is difficult to | :15:26. | :15:30. | |
make a case for Tesco at the moment, but they have a real difficulty | :15:30. | :15:35. | |
getting a toehold in the Indian market. When Tony Blair went to | :15:35. | :15:39. | |
China in 2003, Lloyds were having difficulties getting into the | :15:39. | :15:44. | |
Chinese insurance market. It is not worth tens of billions, it is worth | :15:44. | :15:47. | |
hundreds of billions. And because the Prime Minister went there, | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
Lloyds were able to get in. So these visits are important. | :15:51. | :16:01. | |
:16:01. | :16:04. | ||
Our team of eager Beevers have constantly scouring websites for | :16:04. | :16:08. | |
every political newspaper in the country for for information. This | :16:08. | :16:18. | |
:16:18. | :16:19. | ||
week we've come up with a corker. # I've got chills mum plying | :16:19. | :16:26. | |
# I'm not losing control # But the power I'm sploig | :16:26. | :16:32. | |
# Is electrifying # You better shape up... # We | :16:32. | :16:37. | |
apologise to people of a nervous disposition. We should have warned | :16:37. | :16:40. | |
you before we run that. It sounds like he has been inhaling helium. | :16:40. | :16:44. | |
Why do politicians do that? They don't think anybody has a mobile | :16:44. | :16:50. | |
phone regarding them doing it. world do they live? They should be | :16:50. | :16:55. | |
lip sinking. The Beyonce approach would have been better. Isn't the | :16:55. | :16:58. | |
internet an extraordinary thing for human ro pro-gres. We have come so | :16:58. | :17:03. | |
far. I -- Human progress. We have come so far. I don't think we'll | :17:03. | :17:10. | |
see him on the West End stage. Probably stick to the day job. | :17:10. | :17:18. | |
dare they try to take off Graes. I saw that teletimes in 1978. I fell | :17:18. | :17:27. | |
madly in love with Olivia Newton John. If nur public, you should a-- | :17:27. | :17:32. | |
if you are in public, you should assume somebody somewhere is taking | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
pictures. Well, that's it for this week. There are no daily or Sunday | :17:36. | :17:40. | |
politics next week, unless you are a lucky viewer in the South. There | :17:40. | :17:44. | |
is a by-election special where some of Eastleigh's viewers will | :17:44. | :17:48. |