15/09/2013 Sunday Politics London


15/09/2013

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after the summer recess, and the party conference season is already

:00:45.:00:52.

Democrats. Have a great conference. Nick Clegg has some convincing to

:00:52.:00:55.

Politics poll, his troops don't Nick Clegg has some convincing to

:00:55.:01:03.

his coalition bedmates. The latest poll of the country also has the Lib

:01:03.:01:07.

general election commander-in-chief, Paddy Ashdown! So can the Lib Dems

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general election commander-in-chief, does that leave Labour? We will

:01:33.:01:36.

general election commander-in-chief, to the shadow business secretary

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In London, once one of her party's to the shadow business secretary

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brightest hopes, Sarah Teather is now heading for the exit. We will

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hear from Nick Clegg on what it And freshly showered from the Great

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North Run and looking as fresh as daisies, the best and brightest

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Janan Ganesh, Helen Lewis and Iain Now, their leader is our Deputy

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Prime Minister. They are the junior government. They like the colour

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yellow and they have not won a general election since dinosaurs

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walked the earth. Now they are behind UKIP in the polls, so as

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walked the earth. Now they are party gathers for its annual bash

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this year in Glasgow, what is on their mind? Who are the people

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gathering at the Clyde this weekend? their mind? Who are the people

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Before they started drinking, we councillors in England and Wales,

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comrade. The first question we asked was, if the next election results in

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a hung parliament, which team would you rather go into coalition with,

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the Reds or the blues? Lib Dem councillors said Labour, two to

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the Reds or the blues? Lib Dem Tories or Labour? It is not for

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the Reds or the blues? Lib Dem to say. It is for the voters to

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say. We will decide depending on councillors favoured a coalition

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councillors. The next most popular rather play table football against?

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councillors. The next most popular policy was scrapping the Trident

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nuclear deterrent, supported by policy was scrapping the Trident

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of councillors. Then there was the reinstatement of the 50p top rate of

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income tax. 70% of councillors like the look of that. When it came to

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the idea of banning the burka in public places like schools and

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airports, 45% of councillors were in favour. Finally, a ban on topless

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Page three model is won the support of 33% of councillors. Why is it so

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popular, the idea of a mansion tax? It is a much fairer tax. We know

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there are people out there with It is a much fairer tax. We know

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expensive houses. Which of these is most important to you? Banning

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Trident. The cold war ended in 1989. Another one was the idea of

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banning the burka in public places. whatever they like. If they want to

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banning the burka in public places. wear the birth or a kilt or if they

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anything. We are the party of jobs. Thank you. Last night, a fully

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clothed Nick Clegg rallied his troops, but if he was not around,

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who would Lib Dem councillors want instead? Business Secretary Vince

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Cable was most popular, with a third of the votes. In second place, the

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party's president, Tim Farron, with 27%. 10% went to Danny Alexander,

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while the business minister Joe Swinson received 7%. The Energy

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Secretary Ed Davey scooped 6%, and in last place, Steve Webb, the

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pensions minister, who got 5%. If any of these councillors want to

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talk to me about it, I would be delighted to hear from them. Is

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talk to me about it, I would be contenders. But our survey is not

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the party, no matter what they do. their own poll which showed that 75%

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the party, no matter what they do. Also meeting here this weekend,

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the party, no matter what they do. Democrats like to think they have

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got just as much va-va-voom, even if a big chunk of the country doesn't.

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Add, back in his hometown. So, the Much of their party thinks they

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Add, back in his hometown. So, the moving in the wrong direction.

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Earlier, I spoke to former party moving in the wrong direction.

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leader Paddy Ashdown. He has been put in charge of heading up the

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leader Paddy Ashdown. He has been election campaign. I asked him if

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the mood in Glasgow was grim. No. In many ways, as you know, Tory old

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commentator that you are just as I am a hoary old member at the other

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end of the camera, we have been midterm of a government, especially

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when you are in government and the country is going for in a deep

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economic crisis, has almost no relevance to where you might be

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economic crisis, has almost no the nipple come to consider how

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economic crisis, has almost no will vote in 600 days time -- when

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the people come to consider how will vote in 600 days time -- when

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will vote. We do not dismiss polls, but they are a snapshot of what

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will vote. We do not dismiss polls, indication of where we will be.

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will vote. We do not dismiss polls, guess is, for what it is worth,

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will vote. We do not dismiss polls, as we come to the election, the

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public will be in a very serious, probably frightened mood. Their

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public will be in a very serious, thoughts will be, who maintains

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public will be in a very serious, job, makes sure I don't have to

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public will be in a very serious, to higher mortgage? The coalition

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has delivered not only the required policies to make Britain's economy

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prosperous, but also its society fair. That is what people will want

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to play in it. But you are in a fair. That is what people will want

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mood this morning. You tweeted that you were not happy with how the

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There is probably something they Observer newspaper handled your

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There is probably something they headline they chose to put on it

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late last night was outrageous, misrepresentative and in one case in

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Something about Ashdown wants a coalition with the Tories, or at

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Something about Ashdown wants a least they gave that in for us

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Something about Ashdown wants a inference. Let me make this point.

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election. I am in charge of the campaign. Any journalist who in

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these next two years says that any Liberal Democrat prefers anything

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else in terms of the outcome of Liberal Democrat prefers anything

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coalition but the result of the ballot box dictating that outcome,

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that any prefer one side to another coalition determined by the electors

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that any prefer one side to another in the votes, will get a bloody

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that any prefer one side to another time from me, no matter who they

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are. We take the warning. A survey of Lib Dem councillors shows that in

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coalition with the Tories. That of Lib Dem councillors shows that in

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clear sign that your activists want a change of direction. I don't think

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it is news that as a left-wing party, we find it more congenial

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with those on the left wing, but that is not the issue. You saw it

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election. We are servants of the ballot box. We do watch the British

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people require us to do to provide a stable government in the interests

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of our country. I am sure you have stable government in the interests

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of our country. I am sure you have got the point by now. I have fought

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the Tories all my life. But when responsibility to amend the economic

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crisis, was this right for the determine who are going to be in any

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coalition, should there be one, determine who are going to be in any

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voters and nobody else. It is not that. But your own internal polls

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that is true. Nick Clegg has done that. But your own internal polls

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what no other party leader has done. He took the coalition agreement

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what no other party leader has done. the party, and they voted for it. So

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different direction. I think we the party, and they voted for it. So

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extraordinarily united. I did not expect them to be so under these

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pressures, but they have surprised me and made me joyful at the same

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time. The party has done what it done in local government for a long

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time. We may have our private likes and dislikes, but the thing that

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coalition is the ballot box. You have said that three times. I can

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say it again if you like. Please don't! What if your party votes

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say it again if you like. Please reinstate tuition fees as party

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policy afternoon? We will have to listen to that and act accordingly.

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You must listen to the voice of listen to that and act accordingly.

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party and take it into account in what you do. I am always quite

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answering hypothetical questions. I don't think it is likely to happen,

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but if it did, we would have to don't think it is likely to happen,

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distinguished Lib Dems was that don't think it is likely to happen,

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your party conference voted for something, it was in the manifesto.

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The manifesto is taken in its final form before the party for decision.

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The party will express views at form before the party for decision.

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stage in all sorts of ways. It did in my leadership, too. The manifesto

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is democratically agreed by the party at the time of the election,

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not before. The Tory conference party at the time of the election,

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be about how they think they have been vindicated, that austerity

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be about how they think they have worked, the economy is turning a

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corner. But Nick Clegg's conference announcements will be about plastic

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bags. Have you got the hang of this coalition think? Andrew, you can

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always be guaranteed to put things in the most discreditable form!

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always be guaranteed to put things is part of your charm. That was

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always be guaranteed to put things about to be a minor announcement in

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election. Isn't the biggest danger been very popular in terms of how

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election. Isn't the biggest danger that the Tories, not you, if there

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is an economic recovery, they will get the credit for it? I don't think

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think the electorate does gratitude. The only time people cast a thank

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Thatcher over the sale of council houses. We could have a different

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discussion over whether that was a good idea. But what you have done is

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the underpinning for the promise of government, we have stayed firm

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the underpinning for the promise of very tough economic policy. But

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the underpinning for the promise of you get the credit? What we have

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done by ourselves, which the Tories would never have done, is make sure

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that when the pain is felt, it is not the poor who feel it. We have

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seen the biggest shift of taxation, lifting the poorest in the country

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out of taxation, that has ever happened, including in the previous

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Labour government. You are presiding over the biggest squeeze on living

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standards in modern times. Because it is the biggest recession in

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modern times. When you speak to it is the biggest recession in

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2.5 million people who have been lifted out of taxation altogether

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because of the Liberal Democrats, tax cut. You may be able to make the

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because of the Liberal Democrats, connection, Andrew, you are a sharp

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economic crisis and difficulty for the Tories had been by themselves,

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none of that would have happened. We have sought to shift the burden

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none of that would have happened. We from the poorest in this country. I

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am part of that. So when we go into the next election, the message will

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am part of that. So when we go into be that if you want to continue

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Miliband? It is not much my style. have a prosperous economy and a

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Miliband? It is not much my style. I've never much liked comments about

:16:16.:16:19.

the other leaders. I do not intend to make it so in the future. Can I'd

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finish up on Syria? You said after the Syria vote that Britain was

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finish up on Syria? You said after hugely diminished country. Given it

:16:30.:16:36.

both sides on a course which could now see Syria give up chemical

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weapons without records to military action, would you like to withdraw

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these remarks and admit that you should be proud and happy with what

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Britain has done? No. You and I should be proud and happy with what

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know, because we are old observers, that that would never have happened

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underpinning of a threat to use resigned from that. We have no part

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to play in the fact that Assad and Putin have moved towards peace for

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to play in the fact that Assad and fear of military action. We decided

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exactly the opposite. Why would fear of military action. We decided

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liked to have seen our country join in with those who are serious about

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upholding an international law which has restrained even than axes and

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left others to make sure that we talent, but instead we resigned

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left others to make sure that we moved towards peace. -- even the

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Maxis and Stalin. But if it had moved towards peace. -- even the

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would not have had the time to allow this to happen. It has avoided war.

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Job done, British Parliament. That would be true if it was accurate but

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it is not. The resolution proposed a delay, that we should wait until the

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with the parliamentary vote. The frame was absolutely nothing to

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with the parliamentary vote. The vote was going to incorporate that.

:18:07.:18:08.

I do not think you can claim what vote was going to incorporate that.

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remember that diplomacy, which was not reinforced by the threat of

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military action, does not work. not reinforced by the threat of

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is when diplomacy runs with a grain is happening over the last two

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And you we would get to the Balkans eventually, and we did. His biggest

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challenge is if the economy is get some credit for the Lib Dems,

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when the Tories will want to halt it all. But his position is not to

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when the Tories will want to halt it the necessary axeman. That is George

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Osborne's role. Their role is to be Osborne's role. Their role is to be

:19:08.:19:12.

the chaser party, taking the edge off. They will because of me going

:19:12.:19:16.

on about the pupil premium and That is what you will hear from

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of the cuts. Will that work? They them, how they have taken the edge

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of the cuts. Will that work? They are in a pretty good position. Even

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if they have lost two thirds of are in a pretty good position. Even

:19:27.:19:33.

polls, I do not know anyone in Westminster methinks that will be

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matched in their parliamentary representation. If they have 56

:19:37.:19:40.

matched in their parliamentary now, they might lose a dozen but

:19:40.:19:47.

Strategically, they are in a better position than the reading of the

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polls would tell you. I think Nick Clegg's survival has been one of the

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stories of this Parliament. He is looking good at the comfort -- at

:19:55.:20:02.

the conference. When he was at his lowest after the AV referendum,

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people were saying he would survive and lead us into 2015 and beyond and

:20:07.:20:09.

I thought that was fanciful. Believe and lead us into 2015 and beyond and

:20:09.:20:13.

I thought that was fanciful. Believe it or not... Paddy Ashdown was

:20:13.:20:15.

wrong, you were wrong and... I wasn't. I'm underestimated how bad

:20:15.:20:22.

his rivals are. If you are Lib Dem member, however aggrieved you are

:20:22.:20:27.

with Nick Clegg, you do not think, wouldn't it be great if Christian

:20:27.:20:34.

in charge. Of course, the people do in charge. Of course, the people

:20:34.:20:40.

of the way they vote, a different government and it is a consequence

:20:40.:20:44.

of the way they vote, a different matter. If Janan Ganesh is right,

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majority, which would be hilarious for the look on Paddy Ashdown's

:20:59.:21:01.

parliament. And they are very puffed face. The danger is they get trapped

:21:01.:21:17.

parliament. And they are very puffed up and they enjoy Parliament and

:21:17.:21:20.

there is a possibility they will not be. While they are talking about the

:21:20.:21:23.

Polish and themselves, they are be. While they are talking about the

:21:23.:21:25.

talking about the issues facing be. While they are talking about the

:21:26.:21:32.

coalition. It was interesting that he said that we are a left-wing

:21:32.:21:37.

party, not a centre-left party or a centre party, but a left-wing party.

:21:37.:21:44.

I'm going to put myself in the firing line and say that there is a

:21:44.:21:48.

big split between the Tim Farron line who say they like Ed Miliband,

:21:48.:21:53.

and another one, Jeremy Browne in the Home Office saying that Labour

:21:53.:21:56.

are intellectually lazy. The risk clearly a clique around Nick Clegg

:21:56.:22:05.

who wants to be a synthetic party, but that is not where the membership

:22:05.:22:12.

who wants to be a synthetic party, activists are clearly of the left,

:22:12.:22:16.

not just the centre-left. They are very pro-immigration and they want

:22:16.:22:21.

strategy has to be to take the party to the centre. The something not

:22:21.:22:26.

happen at some stage? The poll suggests it is a left-wing party.

:22:26.:22:30.

happen at some stage? The poll Very left-wing. Other think the

:22:30.:22:32.

happen at some stage? The poll would have yielded -- would have

:22:32.:22:33.

yielded the same results before would have yielded -- would have

:22:33.:22:41.

2010 election. This is reflected by the arithmetic. Whichever party

:22:41.:22:43.

2010 election. This is reflected by biggest will most likely be the

:22:43.:22:45.

2010 election. This is reflected by in coalition with the Lib Dems.

:22:45.:22:49.

2010 election. This is reflected by Clegg's on latitude to choose is

:22:49.:22:56.

exaggerated by us. The choice is no parliamentary arithmetic. But if you

:22:56.:23:02.

remember the structure of the Lib Dems, they can tie themselves up in

:23:02.:23:04.

infighting. -- the choice is not Dems, they can tie themselves up in

:23:04.:23:14.

stable. And Nick Clegg has had a Dems, they can tie themselves up in

:23:14.:23:17.

good conference last year, and will campaigners, labour activists who

:23:17.:23:37.

have not forgotten what he has done in government and are determined to

:23:37.:23:41.

get him. It will be a tough year and a half. Tougher than he imagined.

:23:41.:23:46.

Now, not so long ago they were writing George Osborne's political

:23:46.:23:50.

obituary. Be on the Omni shambles budget of 2012 and a lacklustre

:23:50.:23:55.

performance of the British economy meant his reputation work -- was in

:23:55.:24:03.

the dirt. -- the omnishambles. But things have changed. The Chancellor

:24:03.:24:06.

is saying he has been vindicated. If runway, it looks as though the

:24:06.:24:15.

British economy has taken off, quarter. Forecasts for the rest

:24:15.:24:20.

British economy has taken off, the year have been revised up words.

:24:20.:24:23.

What's more, the office for National recession never actually happened.

:24:23.:24:31.

Unemployment is down in the three months to July and the number of

:24:31.:24:40.

spasticity rate since 1997. On Monday, George Osborne said his

:24:40.:24:42.

policies were bearing fruit. We Monday, George Osborne said his

:24:42.:24:45.

our nerve when many told us to abandon our plans. As a result,

:24:46.:24:51.

thanks to the efforts and sacrifices of the British people, Britain is

:24:51.:24:59.

turning a corner. The message for his Labour critics was clear. The

:25:00.:25:02.

Chancellor thinks he was right and they were wrong. And Chuka Umunna

:25:02.:25:06.

Good afternoon. Good afternoon.Do you accept that the economy has

:25:06.:25:22.

turned a corner? I think it is good that a stalled recovery appears

:25:22.:25:27.

turned a corner? I think it is good get this in perspective. We have

:25:27.:25:29.

turned a corner? I think it is good three wasted years. We have the

:25:29.:25:29.

worst economic recovery in history. three wasted years. We have the

:25:29.:25:34.

worst economic recovery in history. Debt is up and we have record youth

:25:34.:25:43.

2010. That is the situation. The worse because, on average, wages

:25:43.:26:02.

2010. That is the situation. The talked about, Vince Cable has been

:26:02.:26:04.

talking about this as well, is what is happening in the housing market.

:26:05.:26:08.

It seems that much of the solution to powering the recovery in the

:26:08.:26:14.

It seems that much of the solution of George Osborne lies in sorting

:26:14.:26:16.

out the housing market but the problem is, we are at risk of being

:26:16.:26:19.

another housing bubble. Because problem is, we are at risk of being

:26:19.:26:24.

research that came out this week, we know that housing in the UK is three

:26:24.:26:26.

times more expensive than in the US. know that housing in the UK is three

:26:26.:26:30.

We know that house prices are rising five times faster than wages, but we

:26:30.:26:32.

also know that the government is five times faster than wages, but we

:26:32.:26:38.

building new housing at a slower rate, the slowest rate that we have

:26:38.:26:46.

complaining about a housing bubble, isn't that like Satan complaining

:26:46.:26:52.

about seven? -- seven. We all know that we cannot go back to business

:26:53.:26:56.

as usual. We need to build a new model of growth. But the housing

:26:56.:27:01.

bubble you talk about, it is not a bubble. It might turn into one.

:27:01.:27:06.

bubble you talk about, it is not a said the risk of a bubble. It is

:27:06.:27:08.

nothing like what happened on the I said, in 2009, we had the crash

:27:08.:27:15.

and we knew we needed to reconfigure the way that our economy works.

:27:15.:27:19.

Having an economy based on crisis is rebalance the economy. We saw the

:27:20.:27:26.

unemployment statistics this week, and it is welcomed overall, that

:27:26.:27:32.

unemployment has come down. At half up. And it went down in other parts.

:27:32.:27:42.

We know that we need to rebalance our economy, so that we do not just

:27:42.:27:49.

rely on consumption, but that we also that we grow our exports as

:27:49.:27:55.

well. We know we have a continuing deficit. We always have a trade

:27:55.:28:02.

scheme? We have not said that we deficit. There was never a trade

:28:02.:28:27.

scheme? We have not said that we does at the moment, at the moment it

:28:27.:28:31.

is inhalation to a new scheme but tomorrow -- next year it will be in

:28:31.:28:37.

you do not sort out the supply of housing, then that is a recipe for

:28:37.:28:42.

the problems we have seen. Our argument is build more houses. Help

:28:42.:28:45.

but if you do not have the supply more people to buy them by all means

:28:45.:28:48.

but if you do not have the supply you will end up with rising prices.

:28:48.:28:53.

That is obvious. Labour said that government austerity would prevent

:28:53.:28:54.

the return of growth. Austerity government austerity would prevent

:28:54.:29:00.

were wrong. We never said that growth would never return. What

:29:00.:29:05.

were wrong. We never said that said was that if you went for an

:29:05.:29:05.

were wrong. We never said that overly extreme deficit reduction

:29:06.:29:12.

recovery and you would choke growth. That is what we saw for three years.

:29:12.:29:17.

If you say, look at the US economy, it has grown at three times the

:29:17.:29:24.

If you say, look at the US economy, economy has grown at twice the rate.

:29:24.:29:28.

But the British economy is growing quicker than the American or German

:29:28.:29:31.

economy is now. But over time we have not seen that happen. But it is

:29:31.:29:37.

now. That may be the case. But my point is that those three years

:29:37.:29:42.

now. That may be the case. But my people undergoing huge stress and

:29:42.:29:45.

worry. It is good that we have growth back again but the question

:29:45.:29:49.

is, what kind of growth? What we have said... I'm going to come onto

:29:49.:29:55.

that but your credibility depends on your previous analysis. And there

:29:55.:29:57.

are doubts about it. This is what you said not that long ago. In

:29:58.:30:05.

choked off growth. You were wrong. We were not wrong, because we had

:30:05.:30:37.

choked off growth. You were wrong. not moving. Let's remind ourselves.

:30:37.:30:39.

choked off growth. You were wrong. Claude Osborne was predicting that

:30:39.:30:42.

the economy was going to grow by 6.9% between the start of this

:30:42.:30:44.

Parliament and now. It has grown by 6.9% between the start of this

:30:44.:30:50.

said that austerity would only 1.8%. We did not say we would never

:30:50.:30:58.

said that austerity would only temporarily delay growth. We have

:30:58.:31:01.

said that austerity would only looked through your speeches and Ed

:31:01.:31:04.

Balls'. We can't find any reference to say this is simply delaying the

:31:04.:31:09.

recovery. You said austerity would choke off growth. If that is true,

:31:09.:31:13.

why has it returned now? Did we choke off growth. If that is true,

:31:13.:31:19.

it would choke off growth for ever? choke off growth. If that is true,

:31:19.:31:27.

We did not. You have changed your tune. I think your package at the

:31:27.:31:29.

top of this programme, to frame tune. I think your package at the

:31:29.:31:34.

around George Osborne, this is not a people's lives, and the people who

:31:34.:31:40.

deserve huge credit for the growth we are seeing are our country's

:31:40.:31:46.

businesses, who despite the tough economic times, have succeeded.

:31:46.:31:49.

businesses, who despite the tough are the ones who have powered this

:31:49.:31:50.

Westminster to take credit. But are the ones who have powered this

:31:50.:31:57.

blame the government for lack of growth. So therefore, when the

:31:57.:32:03.

growth comes, the government has to situation Britain is in now. We

:32:03.:32:09.

growth comes, the government has to the recovery still has to reach

:32:09.:32:12.

growth comes, the government has to parts of the country, but this is

:32:12.:32:16.

the OECD annualised growth in the G-7, the world's guest economies.

:32:16.:32:21.

That is looking pretty healthy. G-7, the world's guest economies.

:32:21.:32:30.

is a recovery. I am not denying G-7, the world's guest economies.

:32:30.:32:33.

we are seeing a stalled recovery, but who benefits from the growth? On

:32:33.:32:39.

average, your viewers have sustained a £1500 pay cut. That is the second

:32:39.:32:48.

biggest fall in the G20 since May 2010. Because we had the biggest

:32:48.:32:55.

is falling, but we don't just want financial services sector and took

:32:55.:33:21.

is falling, but we don't just want weight you can live off and that are

:33:21.:33:28.

unemployment figures. Your criticism has been that all the new jobs are

:33:28.:33:34.

part-time. They are not now, they employment, up 94,000. This is a

:33:34.:33:46.

short time frame. It is since the recovery began. Half the jobs that

:33:46.:33:55.

have been part-time jobs. Roughly who would like to work full-time.

:33:55.:34:01.

Over the last 20 years, people now feel more insecure at work than

:34:01.:34:04.

ever. The question is about what feel more insecure at work than

:34:04.:34:08.

kind of growth and employment you are getting. The other point is

:34:08.:34:14.

kind of growth and employment you uneven spread of this across our

:34:14.:34:22.

north-east and north-west, the Humber, the east of England, they

:34:22.:34:31.

agree that there was a regional imbalance, but the service sector is

:34:32.:34:37.

growing, cheering and construction are growing and financial services

:34:37.:34:42.

are in decline, so the rebalance is happening. It is not happening to

:34:42.:34:45.

the degree we need to transform happening. It is not happening to

:34:45.:34:51.

long-term, sustainable model of comprehensive industrial strategy

:34:51.:35:00.

towards. Your party conference is coming up. I am sure you are looking

:35:00.:35:07.

forward to it. Why do Ed Miliband's approval ratings get worse the more

:35:07.:35:09.

people see of him? I don't accept approval ratings get worse the more

:35:09.:35:17.

people see of him? I don't accept that. I have given you the figures.

:35:17.:35:22.

Polls go up and down. I have said that on this programme before. But

:35:22.:35:28.

Polls go up and down. I have said his approval rating has consistently

:35:28.:35:33.

Polls go up and down. I have said gone down. What actually matters our

:35:34.:35:34.

Whitney. What is wrong with Whitney? gone down. What actually matters our

:35:34.:35:52.

Whitney. What is wrong with Whitney? We have been putting on votes. Let

:35:52.:35:57.

me show you this. This is the net satisfaction rating. Your leader is

:35:57.:36:01.

now more unpopular than Gordon Brown was when he took Labour to the worst

:36:01.:36:07.

defeat in living memory. Gordon Brown did not put on anything like

:36:07.:36:14.

this number of councillors. Votes are what matter, Andrew. Few people

:36:14.:36:21.

think Ed Miliband is a capable leader. Twice as many people think

:36:21.:36:26.

over Spurs who lives on the moon. These are polls. If you are talking

:36:26.:36:32.

to me about over Spurs lit, that puts this into context, Europe

:36:32.:36:43.

Presley. Since 2010, we have put on thousands of members. Compare that

:36:43.:36:46.

to the Conservative Party, which has not won a general election since

:36:46.:36:54.

1992. They will not disclose their membership figures. Why -- why won't

:36:54.:37:00.

you pledge to renationalise Royal Mail? Because that would be like

:37:00.:37:04.

writing a blank cheque. We don't know at the moment how much the

:37:04.:37:07.

government would receive for the sale of Royal Mail? So how can I

:37:07.:37:09.

judge how much it would cost to sale of Royal Mail? So how can I

:37:09.:37:15.

irresponsible. But the government does not need to do this right now.

:37:15.:37:22.

The entire country is against it. Sources in the City and Whitehall

:37:22.:37:25.

tell me that if Labour pledged to renationalise it, it would kill

:37:25.:37:29.

tell me that if Labour pledged to the flotation. So if you are against

:37:29.:37:29.

it, why don't you do it? For me the flotation. So if you are against

:37:29.:37:35.

pledge to renationalise Royal Mail cheque. But if you put it in the

:37:35.:37:42.

prospectus, people in the City, cheque. But if you put it in the

:37:43.:37:47.

know more about these things, say it would not happen, so why not do

:37:47.:37:52.

know more about these things, say it Because that would be irresponsible.

:37:52.:37:52.

at the check if it did not happen. I for billions to renationalise Royal

:37:52.:38:04.

at the check if it did not happen. I have to deal with the facts. I

:38:04.:38:06.

at the check if it did not happen. I not good deal with the plot somebody

:38:06.:38:10.

at the check if it did not happen. I City. We have to be careful about

:38:10.:38:16.

renationalise it now would be like government. That is why I am not

:38:16.:38:26.

prepared to do that. Ed Balls will not be talking to you. You are

:38:26.:38:29.

watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up in 20 minutes, I will be looking

:38:29.:38:34.

at the week ahead with our panel. Until then, the Sunday Politics

:38:34.:38:46.

at the week ahead with our panel. Welcome to us. Coming up later,

:38:46.:38:49.

at the week ahead with our panel. one of her party's brightest hopes,

:38:49.:38:51.

the Liberal Democrat Sarah Teather is now heading for the exit door. We

:38:51.:38:55.

will hear from her leader Nick Clegg Liberal Democrat MP Tom Brake is

:38:55.:39:02.

with us this week, along with Kate Hoey, Labour MP for Vauxhall. Let's

:39:02.:39:07.

start with something close to your heart. You were giving evidence

:39:07.:39:11.

start with something close to your Lords committee this week about

:39:11.:39:14.

start with something close to your legacy there is or is not, sporting

:39:14.:39:19.

legacy and beyond. You sounded more optimistic than Sir Clive Woodward,

:39:19.:39:23.

who also gave evidence there last week, and raised issues about the

:39:23.:39:28.

need to invest in coaches and so on sensible policy investing money

:39:28.:39:33.

need to invest in coaches and so on in the sportswear we were likely to

:39:33.:39:37.

win medals. Where do you think we stand? It is still early days. But I

:39:37.:39:43.

am pleased with what we are doing in London, because we are getting all

:39:43.:39:56.

has been a great boost. This House of Lords committee will make a very

:39:56.:40:01.

interesting report. I was talking about the grassroots initiatives and

:40:01.:40:02.

what we were doing. A lot of what about the grassroots initiatives and

:40:02.:40:11.

do in sport and recreation is about people. We can all have projects in

:40:11.:40:15.

our communities where there are all about money. I was also pleased

:40:15.:40:24.

that we are beginning to corner all about money. I was also pleased

:40:24.:40:29.

in London. London has 33 boroughs, all doing their own thing, and we

:40:29.:40:30.

many people that they will come all doing their own thing, and we

:40:30.:40:45.

with a good board. Tom, do you feel all doing their own thing, and we

:40:45.:40:48.

optimistic about this, when we know we have got rid of school sports

:40:48.:40:52.

partnerships, and there is concern at primary school level about the

:40:52.:40:56.

quality and amount of sport that kids are doing? Like Kate, I think

:40:56.:41:03.

what we have done in terms of the buildings and stadia is fantastic. I

:41:03.:41:07.

was at the copper box a couple of weeks ago for a basketball event, so

:41:07.:41:11.

those facilities are in use, which is brilliant compared to what other

:41:11.:41:15.

cities have achieved. We don't see growing out of the car parks on

:41:15.:41:21.

cities have achieved. We don't see Olympic site, so that is positive.

:41:21.:41:24.

There has been investment back into school sports. My local schools

:41:24.:41:27.

There has been investment back into got something like £8,000 each to

:41:27.:41:28.

ensure that they have got teachers got something like £8,000 each to

:41:28.:41:36.

ensure that they have got teachers activities. In relation to some

:41:36.:41:36.

sports like cycling, the legacy activities. In relation to some

:41:36.:41:40.

continued and is being built on activities. In relation to some

:41:40.:41:44.

government are making at national level to invest in cycling. If you

:41:44.:41:49.

government are making at national look around London and walk on any

:41:49.:41:49.

street at any time, you have to look around London and walk on any

:41:49.:41:54.

you are seeing more people running and cycling. But it is too early to

:41:54.:41:58.

make a complete judgement on the legacy. Comeback in ten years.If

:41:59.:42:05.

make a complete judgement on the either of us or around. Moving on

:42:05.:42:07.

the strains of coalition government on the Lib Dems have been evident

:42:07.:42:11.

again, with Sarah Teather's public declaration that she can't be part

:42:11.:42:14.

of it any more and will be standing down at the next election. The Brent

:42:14.:42:18.

Central MP said her party was no longer seen as fighting for social

:42:18.:42:22.

justice. She claimed the final straw for her was Nick Clegg's tougher

:42:22.:42:26.

approach to immigration, including a plan for some immigrants to pay

:42:26.:42:30.

approach to immigration, including a £1000 bond or deposit when applying

:42:30.:42:30.

for visas. She also regretted the This was seen as a critic of Nick

:42:30.:42:34.

party's support for the benefit This was seen as a critic of Nick

:42:34.:42:50.

make of it? This week, I asked him This was seen as a critic of Nick

:42:50.:42:58.

have known Sarah for many years and I was aware of that, so I was

:42:58.:43:01.

had been disillusioned for some and I was aware of that, so I was

:43:01.:43:08.

disappointed. I don't agree with the reasons she has given. I wish her

:43:08.:43:16.

luck for whatever she goes on to do. Is it a problem with her or with the

:43:16.:43:20.

identity of the party under your leadership? Well, the take one of

:43:20.:43:25.

the things that Sarah cited as being one of the reasons she lost heart,

:43:25.:43:30.

it was this decision to say that no households can receive more in

:43:30.:43:35.

benefits than if you are a household earning £35,000 in work before tax.

:43:35.:43:42.

I think most people would accept 35,000 before tax is set quite high

:43:42.:43:51.

will stop that is something many households that watch this programme

:43:51.:43:55.

would be earning themselves. Many would accept that it is not an

:43:56.:44:00.

unfair thing to do, so I disagree with her on that. But I wish her

:44:00.:44:10.

luck. Do you think she was not able to do what was required by grown-up

:44:10.:44:15.

coalition politics? No, I take what Sarah said at face value. She is a

:44:16.:44:20.

sincere person and she expressed her views in a heartfelt way. I am

:44:20.:44:24.

disappointed that she slightly achieved. I worked hand in glove

:44:24.:44:31.

with Sarah to stop the appalling act is under Labour of imprisoning

:44:31.:44:39.

children in the immigration system. I worked with Sarah on something I

:44:39.:44:44.

announced the week before I last -- the week before last, providing

:44:44.:44:51.

announced the week before I last -- hours of preschool support for

:44:51.:44:51.

toddlers. That was delivered because hours of preschool support for

:44:51.:44:54.

of the work of Sarah Teather and other Liberal Democrats. Do you

:44:54.:44:58.

think she was disloyal in the way she announced her feelings? These

:44:58.:45:04.

things happen. How do you feel when a key member of your party...? It

:45:04.:45:08.

critics predicted. If we had not Democrats have not lost our nerve.

:45:08.:45:29.

critics predicted. If we had not worse shape. The emerging economy

:45:29.:45:42.

critics predicted. If we had not achieved. But the problem is that

:45:42.:45:44.

she has done that and she is likely feeling that the Lib Dems have

:45:44.:45:50.

become desensitised to coalition government, not concentrating on the

:45:50.:45:55.

key things like social justice. justice. The biggest expansion

:45:55.:46:01.

key things like social justice. apprenticeships is social justice.

:46:01.:46:01.

The pupil premium, £2.5 billion apprenticeships is social justice.

:46:01.:46:06.

extra money for poor children is social justice. Those things would

:46:06.:46:12.

Liberal Democrats. Remember one proposed that we raise the point

:46:12.:46:18.

which you pay income tax, taking 3 million people in low pay out of

:46:18.:46:20.

tax. David Cameron said that it million people in low pay out of

:46:20.:46:25.

a nice idea and it cannot be done. It has been done because of us.

:46:25.:46:30.

a nice idea and it cannot be done. not bow to anyone in my commitment

:46:30.:46:33.

commitment but I think we have to fairness. Not only do feel that

:46:33.:46:37.

commitment but I think we have delivered it in schools, workplaces

:46:37.:46:48.

Menzies Campbell, one of your former leaders, described it as an act

:46:48.:46:51.

Menzies Campbell, one of your former disloyalty. Do you agree? Clearly

:46:51.:46:54.

Sarah made a important contribution on the instance -- made an important

:46:54.:47:03.

division. She thinks she cannot continue and I regret that. In a

:47:03.:47:08.

number of areas, including stopping children being put into prison for

:47:08.:47:12.

immigration reasons, it was a huge achievement on her part. And we

:47:12.:47:19.

immigration reasons, it was a huge disloyalty? What do you say about

:47:19.:47:24.

newspaper to express those beliefs before conference. I'd prefer to

:47:24.:47:31.

fantastic record in government. I'm focus on the fact that she had a

:47:31.:47:36.

fantastic record in government. I'm think when she does this two Shias

:47:36.:47:36.

facing a big challenge and a couple that similar to yours, but you're

:47:36.:47:47.

facing a big challenge and a couple of years. I hope she will also be

:47:47.:47:47.

leader says it has detracted. It is of years. I hope she will also be

:47:47.:48:03.

unfortunate and Menzies Campbell says it was disloyal. Do you think

:48:03.:48:15.

that? I think clearly Sarah felt she could not continue. Notwithstanding

:48:15.:48:18.

the areas where the Lib Dems have government in relation to social

:48:18.:48:23.

justice. But that is her decision. Some of the things you have to be

:48:23.:48:30.

Presumably that has happened to Some of the things you have to be

:48:30.:48:37.

like it has happened to a lot of Lib Dem members. She was not able to

:48:37.:48:43.

deal with that. That is her problem, coalition, there are going to be

:48:43.:48:54.

tough issues. The result was going to be negotiation and sometimes

:48:54.:48:56.

tough issues. The result was going Liberal Democrats have succeeded in

:48:56.:48:58.

getting our viewpoint across. In others, we have not. But we have had

:48:58.:49:03.

real successes. The Conservatives wanted to introduce a policy of

:49:03.:49:07.

real successes. The Conservatives at will in relation to employees and

:49:07.:49:11.

that is something that we blocked. Kate Howey, not always known as

:49:11.:49:15.

that is something that we blocked. loyalist, an independent thinker.

:49:15.:49:17.

Sometimes your colleagues are not going to come down upon. What did

:49:17.:49:22.

you make her decision to say what she did and go public? She obviously

:49:22.:49:28.

timed it to be just before the conference, which leads to a lot of

:49:28.:49:35.

self planning. Aiming to damage conference, which leads to a lot of

:49:35.:49:45.

clearly not so happy since she was no longer a minister. When you stop

:49:45.:49:49.

being a minister, you have to work out how you're going to work in

:49:49.:49:53.

being a minister, you have to work way that is supportive of the party

:49:53.:49:56.

being a minister, you have to work yourself to be able to represent

:49:56.:50:00.

your constituents in a way. And difficult. I do not buy what a lot

:50:00.:50:05.

of people were saying, that she difficult. I do not buy what a lot

:50:05.:50:09.

definitely going to lose her seat, because I do not know. It also,

:50:09.:50:32.

definitely going to lose her seat, sometimes... Why would you not want

:50:32.:50:34.

to fight that? She won a famous by-election and has built up a

:50:34.:50:36.

constituency. Do you feel it is by-election and has built up a

:50:36.:50:45.

to pack it in? I'm going to fight my seat very hard. I am absolutely

:50:45.:50:51.

certain that whoever is selected as the candidate for her seat will

:50:51.:50:55.

certain that whoever is selected as fight it hard and rely on the base

:50:55.:50:57.

that she has built up. Kate is entrenched. But it indicates that

:50:57.:51:06.

she does not think it is winnable? indicates. She has made the decision

:51:06.:51:14.

but they do not think that reflects will try very hard. She has made it

:51:14.:51:22.

selected because it will be able to be used by the other parties against

:51:22.:51:26.

them. By wonder if Labour are going to put anything on the literature

:51:26.:51:28.

about this? Do you think they might some stage. One of the debates that

:51:28.:51:40.

the Liberal Democrats are having at this moment is the impact on private

:51:40.:51:43.

finance on the National Health Service. They accuse of the last

:51:43.:51:47.

Labour government of insufficient transparency about which companies

:51:47.:51:51.

were involved and a lack of regard for the long-term affordability

:51:51.:51:58.

were involved and a lack of regard Tonight, there are concerns that

:51:58.:51:59.

dozens of private finance projects could be under threat... A spiral of

:51:59.:52:08.

future... A cloud has been hanging over private finance initiatives for

:52:08.:52:11.

a few years, with many high-profile problems. PFI schemes were started

:52:11.:52:15.

by the Conservative government in the 1990s. Despite initial criticism

:52:16.:52:20.

from the Labour Party, they became PFI is an arrangement between a

:52:20.:52:29.

private company in the public sector to build and maintain infrastructure

:52:29.:52:31.

projects like hospitals with private capital. The state and then repays

:52:31.:52:37.

that over 30 years, often at a high large debts have been stored up

:52:37.:52:42.

that over 30 years, often at a high future taxpayers. Although the next

:52:42.:52:46.

30 years of the contract might be favourable picture. I think some of

:52:46.:52:59.

the processes that we have gone through have fallen short of the

:52:59.:53:06.

accuracy and importance that should have been given to them. Through

:53:06.:53:11.

that mechanism, we have not always received good value. One of the

:53:11.:53:15.

worst examples is the South London health care trust. In 1998, new

:53:15.:53:20.

hospitals were needed in South London and they were funded through

:53:20.:53:24.

PFI deals. One of those was the Princess Royal Hospital. It was

:53:24.:53:30.

PFI deals. One of those was the by a company called United Health

:53:30.:53:35.

PFI deals. One of those was the care Bromley Ltd. Sunday Politics

:53:35.:53:38.

has learned that public sector pension funds -- pension funds

:53:38.:53:44.

invest in the parent company. These include Transport for London and the

:53:44.:53:47.

London pensions authority which looks after several councils. The

:53:47.:53:51.

deal with the South London health care trust is not untypical of PFI

:53:51.:53:57.

arrangements. But the trust has struggled to repay its debt and

:53:57.:54:01.

critics argued that it is ironic that other public bodies in the

:54:01.:54:05.

relationship with the parent company crumbles. Trust board for London and

:54:05.:54:14.

available for interview but both invested in the parent company.

:54:14.:54:20.

There is an awful irony about it PFI situation where a private company

:54:20.:54:23.

set up to run public services with public money is being propped up by

:54:23.:54:31.

another public company also paid for on the one hand South London trust

:54:31.:54:45.

backed by the same parent company. I backed by the same parent company. I

:54:45.:54:50.

think it is appropriate for the pension funds to question what has

:54:50.:54:55.

invest in a broad range of assets. PFI is. But it would be normal

:54:55.:55:13.

in Woolwich and the Queen Mary in here as well as the Queen Elizabeth

:55:14.:55:24.

in Woolwich and the Queen Mary in trusts. The hope is that these

:55:24.:55:26.

hospitals will come out from under the shadow of a trust that could not

:55:26.:55:36.

How does that strike you, that there is a kind of public pension fund

:55:36.:55:40.

investment in these companies that are making this money out of these

:55:40.:55:44.

deals? As your contributors said, it is ironic, but I think the principal

:55:44.:55:50.

issue that we need to address is just the fact that PFI deals do

:55:50.:55:53.

issue that we need to address is really represent good value from

:55:53.:55:53.

money. In the NHS, we have had really represent good value from

:55:53.:55:59.

billion worth of capital that is going to be paid for by £80 billion

:55:59.:56:06.

worth of repayments by hospital trusts. That is why they have got

:56:06.:56:10.

the difficulty that they have got. They are paying 6% of the revenue

:56:10.:56:15.

that they get towards the PFI deal. It meant that some neighbourhoods

:56:15.:56:17.

got hospitals now that they would It meant that some neighbourhoods

:56:17.:56:22.

got hospitals now that they would spending. That is the point, we

:56:22.:56:25.

needed the infrastructure. It is true that the info structure was

:56:25.:56:28.

built, but at what cost in terms of the long-term legacy? They are

:56:28.:56:34.

repayments. We have seen in the the long-term legacy? They are

:56:34.:56:40.

three years that repayments have gone up by a third. It was the

:56:40.:56:46.

Conservatives who started this but Gordon Brown and Tony Blair loved

:56:46.:56:48.

them. If you are honest, do you Gordon Brown and Tony Blair loved

:56:48.:56:52.

that perhaps as a Labour MP, they did not look at the detail? You

:56:52.:56:57.

that perhaps as a Labour MP, they bought by the idea of a gleaming new

:56:57.:57:01.

hospital, but you did not see the about it. I think it was a classic

:57:01.:57:07.

example of whatever party is in power, politicians generally do

:57:07.:57:13.

example of whatever party is in look at the long-term. They are

:57:13.:57:18.

time. They said the debt was saved up for their children. I have had

:57:18.:57:27.

is that yes, we have a new school, more. Isn't the central criticism

:57:27.:57:42.

caveats that did not allow the users caveats that did not allow the users

:57:42.:57:56.

cost, we have heard the anecdotal stories about how much money it

:57:56.:58:01.

costs to change the light bulb because of the way the contracts are

:58:01.:58:05.

configured. What we are debating is trying to go back over the existing

:58:05.:58:09.

re-negotiate them down words in terms of price and also trying to

:58:09.:58:15.

ensure that those who run the PFI contracts are not allowed to put

:58:15.:58:19.

them offshore, thereby not paying quite as much tax to the UK taxpayer

:58:19.:58:25.

Let us move on. It is time for the From 2009 at 22011, the Metropolitan

:58:25.:58:39.

Police fired taser guns more often than any other force in in God and

:58:39.:58:46.

Wales. They fired in 30 2% of cases. country. Labour MPs Chuka Ummuna and

:58:46.:58:52.

Tessa Jowell have called for a change in the law to prevent shops

:58:52.:58:58.

from squatters. Since a crackdown in Lambeth, the problem has increased

:58:58.:58:59.

for commercial party owners in the Lambeth, the problem has increased

:58:59.:59:04.

Four councils are taking legal decision to set affordable rents at

:59:04.:59:10.

Four councils are taking legal 80% of Margaret -- market prices.

:59:10.:59:16.

renting in the boroughs would not be Half of London's roads will be over

:59:16.:59:23.

legal pollution limits in 2020 according to Jenny Jones from the

:59:24.:59:28.

Green party. She says that 45% of the main road and network will have

:59:28.:59:31.

harmful levels of nitrogen dioxide Two Labour colleagues who want to

:59:31.:59:45.

see legislation to tackle squatting in commercial properties. Do you

:59:45.:59:49.

agree? I do not. I think that is an easy thing to come out with but

:59:49.:59:54.

agree? I do not. I think that is an believe that the people they are

:59:54.:59:56.

commercial companies were buildings mostly good squatters, who have

:59:56.:00:04.

commercial companies were buildings shocking and young people can, even

:00:04.:00:15.

commercial companies were buildings ways where the owners of those

:00:15.:00:18.

buildings are encouraged to enter into short-term agreements, as that

:00:18.:00:22.

people will leave when they need the building. You cannot justify office

:00:22.:00:24.

buildings sitting empty for long periods of time and people not being

:00:25.:00:30.

able to use them. I do not think that this will happen. In let me ask

:00:30.:00:40.

This concerns a number of London boroughs, where the mayor is now

:00:40.:00:47.

rent. He will only put money into affordable rent is 80% of market

:00:47.:00:54.

rent. He will only put money into affordable housing if the registered

:00:54.:00:58.

landlord charges 80%. Is that right? Many people would think that is

:00:58.:01:01.

landlord charges 80%. Is that right? affordable housing. 80% of market

:01:01.:01:05.

rent in many parts of London will be unaffordable for many people. The

:01:05.:01:12.

housing. The government are moving on that, but until we have addressed

:01:12.:01:17.

the issue of supply, because the demand is social wrong, there will

:01:17.:01:23.

always be pressure on rent and existing properties. We have got to

:01:23.:01:27.

stop the rent is automatically going up every year by huge amounts, far

:01:27.:01:32.

more than pay is going up. Which deserves a programme all to itself.

:01:33.:01:45.

In a moment, more from our political Good afternoon. Nick Clegg says

:01:45.:01:52.

victory for either the Conservatives Good afternoon. Nick Clegg says

:01:52.:01:55.

or labour at the next election would put at risk the economic recovery

:01:55.:01:59.

is. Speaking in Glasgow at the Liberal Democrat annual conference,

:01:59.:02:00.

he said a coalition would allow Liberal Democrat annual conference,

:02:00.:02:04.

party to balance politics and enable the government to finish the job of

:02:05.:02:09.

party to balance politics and enable repairing the economy fairly. It is

:02:09.:02:10.

my genuine belief that if we go repairing the economy fairly. It is

:02:10.:02:15.

coalition and Islands politics, repairing the economy fairly. It is

:02:16.:02:20.

fair nor sustainable. Labour would will get a recovery which is neither

:02:20.:02:26.

fair nor sustainable. Labour would wreck the recovery, and under the

:02:26.:02:28.

fair nor sustainable. Labour would same commitment to fairness as

:02:28.:02:31.

ours, you would get the wrong kind Five people are being questioned in

:02:31.:02:52.

connection with that blaze. A Syrian government minister has described

:02:52.:02:54.

the agreement drawn up by America country's chemical weapons as a

:02:54.:03:01.

The minister claims the deals helps the Syrians out of a crisis and

:03:01.:03:06.

others war. The US Secretary of State John Kerry is in Israel to

:03:06.:03:09.

brief the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, on the proposal. China

:03:09.:03:13.

and France have also welcomed the deal, which says Syria has until

:03:13.:03:18.

Friday to submit a competence of list of its chemical stockpile.

:03:18.:03:23.

Britain's Mo Farah has missed out on winning his first half marathon

:03:23.:03:27.

Britain's Mo Farah has missed out on He was taking part in the Great

:03:27.:03:29.

North Run between Newcastle and South Shields. Farrar, who was the

:03:29.:03:34.

favourite following his two gold Ethiopian's can mean many Serb

:03:34.:03:43.

favourite following his two gold Kenenisa Bekele in a sprint finish.

:03:43.:03:46.

A carnival atmosphere for the start was about the challenge. For others,

:03:46.:03:52.

walking it, so I have no time in simply dressing up for fun. I am

:03:52.:04:00.

walking it, so I have no time in mind. I just want to enjoy it and

:04:00.:04:02.

appreciate the crowds and have a fantastic time. For elite athletes,

:04:02.:04:09.

today's race was about who would be first over the line. Despite the

:04:09.:04:13.

wind and rain, large crowds turned out for the world's most popular

:04:13.:04:17.

half marathon, which attracts some of the finest women runners, two,

:04:17.:04:25.

including the Kenyan. There were high hopes for Britain's double

:04:25.:04:29.

Olympic champion Mo Farah, but after Shields, he was narrowly beaten

:04:29.:04:36.

Ethiopian's Kenenisa Bekele. It Shields, he was narrowly beaten

:04:36.:04:46.

thought I would come back and close Shields, he was narrowly beaten

:04:46.:04:48.

the gap slowly. I managed to close Shields, he was narrowly beaten

:04:48.:04:50.

it a little bit, but you can't take away what he has. Wheelchair athlete

:04:50.:04:56.

more news on BBC One at 6:35pm. David Weir won his race for a fourth

:04:56.:05:18.

more news on BBC One at 6:35pm. So, did anything happen while we

:05:18.:05:19.

were away this summer? I thought heading now? Who better to answer

:05:19.:05:27.

than the best political panel we could cobble together for a tenner?

:05:27.:05:33.

Putting foreign affairs to one side for a moment, it seems that what

:05:34.:05:38.

happened mystically was that it became more apparent that some sort

:05:38.:05:42.

of recovery was underway at last, and that Mr Miliband still has not

:05:42.:05:48.

yet resonated with the British public. These things are a problem

:05:48.:05:55.

for Labour. Ed Miliband's mistake over the summer holiday was to take

:05:55.:05:56.

a summer holiday. And it looked over the summer holiday was to take

:05:57.:06:01.

the rest of the Labour Party had taken one too. They were not finding

:06:01.:06:04.

issues they could make their own. The only person who made an impact

:06:04.:06:09.

was Stella Creasy on online abuse. That is a huge problem, and it is

:06:09.:06:13.

partly down to the fact that there is this intense message discipline.

:06:13.:06:15.

They don't want to say anything is this intense message discipline.

:06:15.:06:19.

of line until they have got all their ducks in a row. It makes the

:06:19.:06:21.

party do at the moment. The terms of party do at the moment. The terms of

:06:21.:06:27.

trade have swung in David Cameron's favour, but the political rhetoric

:06:27.:06:31.

look at this headline from the is still with Mr Miliband. Let's

:06:31.:06:40.

look at this headline from the Sunday Telegraph. That headline

:06:40.:06:44.

might not be right, but the story is significant in that Mr Cameron is

:06:44.:06:46.

still in danger on his right flank significant in that Mr Cameron is

:06:46.:06:52.

doesn't need an enormous share of the vote to get an overall majority?

:06:52.:07:00.

Westminster group think. Of course Ed Miliband is in trouble. The

:07:00.:07:04.

Tories are reserved and. They are better organised, the economy is

:07:04.:07:08.

recovering. That poses difficulties for Labour, but if you look at what

:07:08.:07:10.

is happening on the ground, UKIP for Labour, but if you look at what

:07:10.:07:18.

don't need to poll 15% in a lot for Labour, but if you look at what

:07:18.:07:23.

to get five or 6% of the vote, and for Labour, but if you look at what

:07:23.:07:24.

to say, this guy will never be prime that could potentially destroy the

:07:24.:07:39.

to say, this guy will never be prime minister, but it is possible that by

:07:39.:07:45.

Miliband could end up as prime minister. It is still all to play

:07:45.:07:51.

for on both sides. If UKIP remains a threat to the Tory right flank and

:07:51.:07:56.

the Tories themselves are not really a national party any more, I am

:07:56.:07:59.

the Tories themselves are not really they will only target a few seats in

:07:59.:08:02.

Scotland, they don't get any big seats in the big cities of the north

:08:02.:08:05.

any more, they don't get the Ulster vote they used to get, so it is

:08:05.:08:09.

possible that Labour, which is more nationally based and has seats in

:08:09.:08:13.

the Midlands and the north and in Wales, so they could get in. I

:08:13.:08:19.

agree. The advantage of having a bad summer is that Ed Miliband can go to

:08:19.:08:25.

expectations. All he has to do is not dribble on the lectern, and

:08:25.:08:29.

expectations. All he has to do is will be written up as spectacular.

:08:29.:08:31.

expectations. All he has to do is He might not even use a lectin.

:08:31.:08:39.

position. The electoral vagaries of the system work in his favour. He

:08:39.:08:44.

still has a narrow poll lead, he is not out of the game at all. Of the

:08:44.:08:47.

three main party leaders, the only one who can be confident about being

:08:47.:08:54.

three main party leaders, the only in government after 2015 is Nick

:08:54.:09:00.

electorally. But if it is this bad for Labour at the moment, what will

:09:01.:09:06.

it be like if this recovery turns out to be real? It depends how much

:09:06.:09:14.

they succeed. Chuka Umunna was shifting the debate are living

:09:14.:09:17.

standards. They don't want to keep arguing about who called it right.

:09:17.:09:20.

Do people feel richer than they arguing about who called it right.

:09:20.:09:24.

in 2010? The data suggests that people don't feel richer than in

:09:24.:09:28.

2010. Because they are not.That people don't feel richer than in

:09:28.:09:33.

and pray that the economy is not as the next election. It is clear

:09:33.:09:47.

and pray that the economy is not as Barber, who thought he fixed the

:09:47.:09:51.

are all sorts of uncertainties Barber, who thought he fixed the

:09:51.:10:06.

wrong for Osborne. Chuka Umunna Barber, who thought he fixed the

:10:06.:10:08.

he would not get rid of help to Barber, who thought he fixed the

:10:08.:10:11.

There are all these criticisms about Barber, who thought he fixed the

:10:11.:10:14.

artificial schemes pumping up house prices, but he would not say that.

:10:14.:10:19.

It is tortuous. You see this again and again. When asked if Labour

:10:20.:10:27.

would repeal the bedroom tax, or the same thing with Royal Mail, it

:10:28.:10:29.

happens again. They will be falling on people who have not had a meal in

:10:29.:10:42.

coming out of the Labour Party. There is a kind and Gillette in

:10:42.:10:45.

coming out of the Labour Party. them to a politician's career. When

:10:45.:10:48.

they are under attack for a long time, the media get bored after

:10:48.:10:51.

they are under attack for a long while and switch the story. It

:10:51.:10:56.

happened to Osborne, who had a horrific 2012 and has recovered

:10:56.:11:00.

bad press as he is getting at the moment, because people find it

:11:00.:11:09.

tedious. Syria has been the big foreign-policy event this summer. It

:11:09.:11:11.

has remarkably led to a Soviet- American initiative to get Syria to

:11:11.:11:19.

give up its chemical weapons. The world will now expect the Assad

:11:20.:11:25.

regime to live up to its public commitments. As I said at the outset

:11:25.:11:27.

anything less than full compliance. John Kerry. Is this too good to

:11:27.:11:44.

anything less than full compliance. true? Even superficially, it is

:11:44.:11:46.

anything less than full compliance. very good. The only people who

:11:46.:11:49.

emerge with any sense of triumph are the Russians, who have had their

:11:49.:11:53.

emerge with any sense of triumph are biggest diplomatic coup. They are

:11:53.:11:53.

back on the stage again. B if you biggest diplomatic coup. They are

:11:53.:11:58.

want to know why Putin even has biggest diplomatic coup. They are

:11:58.:12:02.

because of moments like this. They were humiliated after the end of the

:12:03.:12:06.

Cold War, and a Nou Camp is a great power again. Then you have the Obama

:12:06.:12:09.

situation, because he has ended between himself and his Secretary of

:12:09.:12:13.

where he wanted to end up. He has between himself and his Secretary of

:12:13.:12:32.

him any good. I was in the States, and it was open season on him. I

:12:32.:12:40.

have never understood the idea of chemical weapons as a red line when

:12:40.:12:44.

you can massacre people in their thousands through other means. But

:12:44.:12:50.

chemical weapons are beyond the pale. The rebels are miserable.

:12:50.:12:57.

chemical weapons are beyond the have run out of time. I will have to

:12:57.:12:59.

ask you what you think about Syria next week, which gives you time

:13:00.:13:04.

ask you what you think about Syria prepare. Your book on Fred the shred

:13:04.:13:09.

is going well? It is.I am back tomorrow at noon with the Daily

:13:09.:13:13.

Politics at noon on BBC Two, where we will have more from the Liberal

:13:13.:13:15.

Democrat conference in Glasgow. we will have more from the Liberal

:13:15.:13:18.

is the start of our Daily Politics conference coverage. Next week,

:13:19.:13:22.

is the start of our Daily Politics will be back here at our normal

:13:22.:13:24.

is the start of our Daily Politics of 11am, when we will be joined

:13:24.:13:29.

is the start of our Daily Politics Grant Shapps. Remember, if it is

:13:29.:13:30.

Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.

:13:30.:13:50.

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