22/09/2013 Sunday Politics London

Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Ed Miliband and the

rest of the Labour clan are in Brighton for their party conference

this weekend. He's promised policies galore. But as a Sunday Politics

councillors don't think he's doing a good job, will that be enough to

partying like it's 2006, as Damian McBride's memoirs re-ignite the

Blair-Brown wars. Alastair Campbell will tell us why he is sickened

Blair-Brown wars. Alastair Campbell infighting, Conservative Party

Chairman Grant Shapps will give infighting, Conservative Party

response to the rampant Tory-bashing at the Lib Dem Conference And with

me, as always, the best and the brightest political panel in the

of institutional racism. Are they brightest political panel in the

of institutional racism. Are they business. Isabel Hardman, Janan

be tweeting like demented Damians throughout the programme. First

today, scrapping the bedroom tax. Universal childcare for primary

school kids. More apprenticeships. Labour Conference only begins in

earnest today, but the policy and spending commitments are coming

according to the Labour leader's critics. He's been out and about

this morning and told Andrew Marr that he knew it was going to be

this morning and told Andrew Marr It is about a party that lost office

three years ago. We are trying to be a one term opposition. That is

tough. I believe it is a fight that we can win and I am up for that

fight. The stakes are so high for young people who want a job, for

people whose living standards are being squeezed. For people who think

that this is not good enough for Britain. So what do key Labour Party

activists - its councillors - think about the direction Mr Miliband

activists - its councillors - think taking their party? Adam Fleming is

in Brighton at the Party Conference with all the details of our latest

exclusive Sunday Politics survey. conference set. Let us unwrap them.

With the help of an opinion poll we surveyed 1350 Labour councillors

across England and Wales. We wanted to find out what they think as

Labour gathers for its conference. The Labour leader warmed up for

Labour gathers for its conference. week by taking to his soap box in

Brighton city centre. It is great week by taking to his soap box in

councillors said they did not think Ed Miliband was doing a good job as

leader. 30% said they thought the party would have a better chance if

next election. You will see more of someone else was in charge at the

next election. You will see more of election. He has been in the job for

three years! Now it is crunch time. by roughly one third of the party as

man. He says things and he speaks his mind. -- not a popular man.

diplomatic. Sadly Ed Balls did not seem to be that bothered about our

survey. Over at a conference centre When it comes to relations with

trade unions, the majority of Labour councillors thought things were

absolutely fine. Just 9% thought things with the unions were a little

bit too close. Tricky because Ed Miliband want to loosen the link.

The shadow environment secretary arrived in Brighton ride bicycle

from London to raise money for councillors what they would do if

the next election results in a hung parliament, just over half said

the next election results in a hung would tell the lid Dems to get on

their bikes. We would never say would tell the lid Dems to get on

to going into coalition. It gives us the chance to be in government and

prepare some of the damage of the last three years. So are you going

to start being nice about the Lib Dems? I always treat them with

courtesy. And the parties admitted that perhaps they had opened the

door to too many immigrants. It that perhaps they had opened the

our survey Labour councillors of warming the felt that immigration

We're now joined by the Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Rachel

Reeves. Good morning. Let us start with Ed Miliband. Is it true that

the team insisted that he be called the leader? I just call him Ed and I

socialism? We are a democratic do. Do you welcome working for

lives and tackle the cost of living policies that will improve people

lives and tackle the cost of living crisis facing so many families.

Policies like expanding childcare, crisis facing so many families.

offering more apprenticeships, all policies that I think the country

are calling out for after three years of a flat-lining economy and

seeing prices rise faster than wages for 38 out of the 39 months but

Minister. I think that is the most important thing. So it is OK now to

risk their to the Labour Party again as the Socialist party? The clue is

in the name, we stand up for working people. You are socialist party

according to the leader. We have always been the Labour Party, that

is our name and we stand up for working people, not the privileged

few like this government with their tax cuts for millionaires. Those are

privileged few. The Labour Party is about helping everyone in Britain,

all families. Interesting that your run don't use the word socialist. In

our survey one third of Labour councillors said Ed Miliband was not

doing a good job as leader. If he councillors, who can he convince?

Well you could say that two thirds of councillors think that he is

Well you could say that two thirds right leader. But these are Labour

councillors. The overall majority of Labour councillors think that he is

doing a good job. What matters is the results on election day. Two

thirds of councillors think that he is doing a good job. That us see

what they say at the end of this week. Because I think the policies

he is announcing will go down well week. Because I think the policies

with Labour Party people and will also resonate with the British

question. Just 12% see him as a apprenticeships, giving a break

question. Just 12% see him as a Prime Minister in waiting, just

question. Just 12% see him as a polls, we are consistently ahead in

those polls. It is hard being leader demonstrate how you would be Prime

Minister. By nature you are in opposition. But he has taken on

Rupert Murdoch and the press barons. That is strong leadership, standing

up to the vast majority. If you That is strong leadership, standing

at his reforms to our relationship with the trade unions, strengthening

ties with individual members. I think that he is a strong leader

making the right decisions. If that is the case, why has the Labour

making the right decisions. If that gone from 14 points one year ago to

at most four points now. What went wrong? Well we are six or eight

are six or eight points ahead in the consistently ahead. It looks as

are six or eight points ahead in the we would get an overall majority if

there was an election tomorrow. we would get an overall majority if

we have more work to do to convince more people to vote for Labour.

we have more work to do to convince this is a historic challenge, to be

a one term Labour opposition. I this is a historic challenge, to be

a one term Labour opposition. I believe that Ed Miliband will be the

next Labour Prime Minister and will be an excellent Prime Minister. The

big policy announcement today is the guaranteed childcare for all primary

school children. How much will that government, they ring fenced money

after-school and breakfast clubs. We think that money should be ring

fenced again. How much will it cost? We are saying that schools

within their budgets should be able to provide that. At the moment they

additional money. As it was under can charge for children to come

additional money. As it was under be about ring fencing money because

we think that this is a priority. be about ring fencing money because

money? Well we did ring fence that should do. You cannot ring fenced

money? Well we did ring fence that money in the last Labour government.

That money is gone! It has not gone. It is about priorities and we are

saying that it should be a priority where is the money being spent now

that you would take it from? If where is the money being spent now

look at some of the things that where is the money being spent now

government is doing, building free schools in areas where there are

already enough. That is capital spending. We are ring fencing that

priorities. We had the ring fence when we were in government. It would

be reintroduced so that schools when we were in government. It would

to offer that wraparound care. Of course schools can charge a small

to offer that wraparound care. Of fee for their breakfast clubs and

after-school DVDs. But the important thing is that provision is there for

parents going out to work. Ed Balls and Ed Miliband are at the heart of

the Brown project. Damien Wright was the hit man. Is it not inconceivable

that they did not know what he was the hit man. Is it not inconceivable

up to. It is inconceivable that the hit man. Is it not inconceivable

asking about Damian McBride. What did not -- Damian McBride. I am

asking about Damian McBride. What I'm saying is that I was not there.

I was not there under the last Labour government. But I do know

that these things are not happening under the leadership of Ed Miliband.

that backstabbing going on. There is no plotting against Ed Balls going

on? I do not see that. And anyone who briefed against colleagues

should be sacked, I agree with that. who briefed against colleagues

it clear he was repaired to work with Ed Miliband in the event of

it clear he was repaired to work hung parliament. Are you excited by

it clear he was repaired to work that prospect or is it just boring?

it clear he was repaired to work to say that. With his poll ratings

of 9%. I think it is up to the general public to decide who they

want to form a government. We are campaigning for an overall Labour

that just boring boring? I want campaigning for an overall Labour

serve in a Labour government is campaigning for an overall Labour

a coalition government. That is campaigning for an overall Labour

we are campaigning for. Thank you for joining us. Steve Richards,

we are campaigning for. Thank you has Ed Miliband got to do this

week? He has got to start to win the argument about the economy. I think

they will be quite clever on that in terms of saying that the recovery

has begun but it is not going to benefit many of the voters. Unlike

previous economic recoveries. That is a strong line and they need to

make that again and again. The recovery has barely started. The

make that again and again. The interesting thing, Isabel, they

make that again and again. The to make a living standards the issue

let's return to living standards which have been squeezed. The polls

show that twice as many people blame Labour for the living standards

show that twice as many people blame the Conservatives. It is a great

scene for them to mine, and it is the only one before they announce

big policies, but they have not gained the trust of voters on the

economy, so the Conservatives can say they are finishing the job of

fixing the recovery now and then economy but we will talk about

living standards. Ed Miliband's economy but we will talk about

thing worse than not having a policy elucidating policies and not just

thing worse than not having a policy something to scrutinise and it makes

you bold rubble and you can see something to scrutinise and it makes

childcare. Spigot can he provide wraparound childcare for free?

childcare. Spigot can he provide can he provide wraparound childcare

for free? I don't even know what it is. Opposition is emphatically an

art form, and the art form, and artform for them at the moment is to

announce policies without spending any money and it is very difficult

to do. You gave an illustration any money and it is very difficult

how difficult it is. They are under huge pressure, for the last year, to

announce policies and they announce one on childcare and you immediately

say, how do you paper it? And she immediately says, we will not spend

a penny on it, because they are terrified of spending anything.

a penny on it, because they are is where it an artform. The tax

suspension before and election is crazy, because they will find money

one way or another, but in another way, they cannot say we will spend

money on this. It is a real problem. How do you measure the state of

money on this. It is a real problem. coalition after the Liberal Democrat

conference? The Liberal Democrats were in a very strong position after

their conference, Nick Clegg had faced and activists on some issues,

including fracking, which they supported, which seem to be the

including fracking, which they important part of the conference. In

terms of the coalition, the Tories have had to sit and watch as Vince

Cable, Nick Clegg and Coe have basically criticised them and said

they are evil and only the Lib Dems can make sure the Government is

they are evil and only the Lib Dems and works properly. So in terms

they are evil and only the Lib Dems how the coalition works, you can

expect to see some revenge at the Tory conference. The Lib Dems, Nick

Clegg's followers, they had their revenge. Mister Clegg may have

convinced his own activists to stay behind him, but he has a bigger

convinced his own activists to stay convincing the British people.

convinced his own activists to stay is some interesting polling they

convinced his own activists to stay have done privately that suggests

at that group, rather than the broader public, in order to do well

at that group, rather than the enough at the next election to hold

free school meals regardless of enough at the next election to hold

free school meals regardless of income, may perversely make sense to

them. Because it appeals to their political world we are in, the

Labour strategists think they can political world we are in, the

Labour strategists think they can win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going

to concentrate on 25. The Tories win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going

to concentrate on 25. The Tories have seized to be a national party

any more. We haven't been used to it for a long time. In the 80s, one

party dominated, the Tories. In for a long time. In the 80s, one

90s into the 21st century, the policy matter delayed the Labour

Party dominated. -- the Labour party dominated. We are now here but we

have other parties hoping that dominated. We are now here but we

will give them a small overall majority and it is the best they can

get. It is a very odd situation where the main two parties feel

get. It is a very odd situation can lose and the Lib Dems are openly

targeting only 25%. They have gotten rid of 75% already and it is a long

way from the policies of last couple of decades Nick Clegg talked about

all of the policies he had locked. There is a real opportunity for

all of the policies he had locked. Conservatives to say that he is

blocking all of the things that voters outside of our bays are

interested in, top immigration policy, human rights reform, that

sort of thing. David Cameron can say that in Manchester next week. One

thing was quite clear, it came out of this awayday, and and this is

this, that when you look at Mister Miller band's polls, the Tories

this, that when you look at Mister going to make this a presidential

against his opponents, why not have annual shindig in Glasgow, some

ministers were non-too complimentary nasty party and describe their

and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not restrict himself to policies that

and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not the Lib Dems had champion, such

and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not increasing the amount you can earn

before paying tax. The Deputy Prime Minister proudly listed all of the

things he had stopped the Tories from doing. Speak of scrapping

housing benefit the young people, no. No to ditching the human rights

act. No to weakening the protections in the equalities act. So how much

of a break have the yellow brigade being on Conservative ambitions

question mark in the two leaders shake hands again after the 20

question mark in the two leaders election, what policies were David

Cameron insist on. -- 2015? No matter how many times Nick Clegg

Grant Shapps, good morning. Nick self-styled. He boasted to his

conference that he had stopped the Tories from going ahead with 16

policies in government. Is this accurate? I don't know but what

policies in government. Is this can tell you, as your commentator

Isabel said, some of the policies that we wanted them if we were a

majority government sent out to that we wanted them if we were a

very popular things, like reforming the human rights act and some of the

problems that provides when it comes to sending people who have no right

to be in this country back. So there to be in this country back. So there

may be some things we could have inheritance tax cut? I don't know

the details, but I think it is negotiation and sometimes you can't

would rather see a single party negotiation and sometimes you can't

would rather see a single party running the country -- why so many

would rather see a single party people. I have to say I agree. They

would rather see a single party the one I just mentioned would be

Country, we have had 1,000 years of developing the law and we are more

than capable of putting in place developing the law and we are more

than capable of putting in place sensible laws. you would have left

the European Court of human rights. We have already started the process

of negotiation. There was some progress, but limited, and we would

like to move further. Let me give you one other. I think this country

has a great future but we can only ourselves the best place in the

world to come and set up a business. ourselves the best place in the

If we make ourselves the best place entrepreneurship and I think there

are a host of things we could do to go further on cutting back red tape.

And the Lib Dems have stopped you? I think that is the case. In what

ways, if any, have the Lib Dems improved the coalition process? It

has been a stable government. No one talks about when the next election

will come, we know it is in May talks about when the next election

but that is in part being in a coalition. The Tories wouldn't have

done that? It wasn't the plan of any party to go from... In the old days,

there would have been speculation. debate, you changed the British

constitution in a fundamental way and nobody got a say. It was debated

on the floor of the Has, as all constitutional changes are and there

was a lot of agreement -- of the House. Nobody has ever said to me

that it is a problem that we now have a fixed term parliament. Here

it is, every five years. This is what it has done, it has provided

stability in an incredibly uncertain economic time and that has been

stability in an incredibly uncertain for the economy. we will chalk

stability in an incredibly uncertain up to delete -- Lib Dem. What about

taking people out of tax, the Lib Dems did that question mark it is a

great policy. It is a conservative This is a screen grab from your

great policy. It is a conservative certainly came about because of

great policy. It is a conservative coalition and we put it in the

coalition agreement. It could not have happened without a Conservative

Chancellor making it happen. It have happened without a Conservative

right, 25 million people taken out of tax. Another 17 by this April

will not be paying tax at all. you didn't want to do it. Look at what

David Cameron told Nick Clegg during What Nick Clegg is promising is

David Cameron told Nick Clegg during £17 billion tax cut. We are saying,

stop the waste of 6 billion to stop the national insurance rise. I would

love to take everyone out of their first £10,000 of income tax, it

love to take everyone out of their beautiful idea but we cannot afford

unaffordable and now you are taking the credit for it. I feel like it is

having a three year afterwards argument, and we got into coalition

because the British people put us there and we agreed to make the

because the British people put us of it. And as it happens, if you

absolutely think it is the right thing to take as many people out of

tax entirely as possible. Two points 7 million people pay no tax at all

threshold. -- 2.7 million. I'm pleased it worked out. What are

threshold. -- 2.7 million. I'm most important thing is a majority

Tory government would do after most important thing is a majority

unencumbered by the Lib Dems? I think produce even more jobs when

unemployment goes down, because think produce even more jobs when

are the most entrepreneurial place to set up a business. Are more

free-market economy? We make our money because we are out global

trading economy. That is why it money because we are out global

so important that we have to make sure it is easy to trade around

so important that we have to make world. One simple example, it is

crazy in my view that we have global tariffs that prevent some of the

things that I think we would be tariffs that prevent some of the

interested in progressing in. It sounds like you are talking about

interested in progressing in. It even more Thatcherite, market led

you want to help the least well even more Thatcherite, market led

people in society, and the least well off people in the world, around

the globe, the way to do it is to trade, and I think we should have an

economy which is much more open trade, and I think we should have an

free trade. If there is another trade, and I think we should have an

parliament, and the poll suggest there might be, at the moment it is

all to play for on both sides, what would your non-negotiable Red Line

speak? We are still two years away from that, it is a long way away,

but there is a lot we want to lay out. What we are going to be saying

to this country is most people want a single party running the country,

they think it is clean and clear and you don't end up with negotiation

setting out a very clear platform which will be for hard-working

people in this country who want which will be for hard-working

work hard and get on in life. We would, I think, want to see the

welfare state that we have got into, where it is no longer about helping

those most in need but became a situation where you are better off

not working than in worker, I think we plan to ensure that this is an

incredibly fair place to go out we plan to ensure that this is an

do a day's work and get the money at the end of the day rather than

thinking there is an alternative. you have promised a referendum on UK

membership of the EU in 2017, that must be your first Red Line? We

membership of the EU in 2017, that clear, we want to see a referendum,

a reform European Union. So no poll... ? I should remind viewers

that there is an act of Parliament, a bill going through Parliament

right now, for a referendum on the EU, which comes back to the House.

It is past the report stage and be discussing it. The Lib Dems,

Labour, will have an opportunity to support what the British people

manifesto. What is wrong with yes or want. Lots may have changed. But it

manifesto. What is wrong with yes or no? I cannot write the manifesto for

2015. You are asking me to project no? I cannot write the manifesto for

2015. You are asking me to project negotiations that are yet to come.

2015. You are asking me to project much... I know you are committed but

she won't tell me. Let's move on. Your party has been described as

nasty and blinkered. What do you feel when he says that? We are

interested in helping the most vulnerable people in society. I

think we're doing all that and more. And it is a shame that that language

was used because we have made so much progress together. Are you

getting to the end of your tether with Mr King? I do not think it

getting to the end of your tether terribly helpful for any Cabinet

minister to make comments like that. What I would say is that Nick Clegg

minister to make comments like that. is the leader of the Lib Dems and

himself. Look at these figures on party membership. Why has your party

lost half of its members since Mr Cameron became leader? I would like

it to be more. But I think the world has changed. People do not rush

it to be more. But I think the world and join political parties as they

used to. Instead they support you in different ways. If I released the

number of people who give to the party in different ways, through

donations for example, through friend memberships. If you include

donations for example, through that that figure goes back up. But

a time when UKIP has doubled. I that that figure goes back up. But

not want to to misinterpret what I election. But one statistic of

members. I think we will have done election. But one statistic of

constituency. The difference was I deliver leaflets and knock on the

doors. The Conservative party has changed. We now have an army of

people, volunteers who are not days when you expect people to give

you £25, before you accept their spoke about your most vulnerable

marginal seats. This is a poll from marginal seats that you will be

defending. Labour is way up, you are way down and UKIP is also up. What

is happening, the Lib Dem Mo -- way down and UKIP is also up. What

disillusioned Conservatives are moving to UKIP. If these figures

came at an election he would lose 32 of these 40 seats. The point about

any opinion poll is that it is perhaps accurate at the moment it is

taken. We are now in a position where the economy has turned the

corner. The right thing to do was to deal with the deficit. The people

being asked about these things, deal with the deficit. The people

will be interested in their own standard of living. Their mortgage

payments. Why are you doing worse in the marginal seats? National League

you are kind of nip and tuck with Labour. Well if that is the pick to

come 2015, people will see that Labour. Well if that is the pick to

demonstrates that the last thing Labour. Well if that is the pick to

one message was to go all out and attack Ed Miliband. It is going

one message was to go all out and actually not true. We are going

one message was to go all out and focus on his policies, if he finally

announces some. Everything we have seen so far suggests it would mean

more borrowing and spending. The shadow chancellor said we would

more borrowing and spending. The ruthless, just a few months later,

committed by Labour. These are your figures. I will speak to you about

watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up in just over 20 minutes. Alastair

not-too-positive review of Damian McBride's memoirs. Until then, the

Sunday Politics across the UK. Hello and welcome to the London

Sunday Politics across the UK. of the Sunday Politics. Joining

Sunday Politics across the UK. for the next 20 minutes or so, Bob

Blackman, Conservative MP for Harrow East and the Labour MP for Tooting

and shadow London minister, Sadiq programme. Is Labour institutionally

racist. That's the accusation being made by some of the party's former

councillors. There is a disease made by some of the party's former

the party that needs to be sorted out. But first let's start with

the party that needs to be sorted seems like a bit of Groundhog day

news. The eminent surgeon Lord Ara Darzi has been asked to look into

the state, and the future of the NHS in London. Those of you with half

decent memories may well recall in London. Those of you with half

did that once before, six years in London. Those of you with half

But his health care for London in London. Those of you with half

was then scrapped when the coalition came to power. But he's back. This

going round in circles on this one? new health care commission. We are

going round in circles on this one? Johnson has seen the sense in asking

throwing his plans in the bin. In my part of the world we had a proposal

to close down nine hospitals in London. That was not a popular move.

What Boris Johnson is doing is reviewing health care and he is

right to do that. Boris Johnson reviewing health care and he is

looking after the interests of Londoners. If the mayor does the

right thing for London, then I will support him. Local authorities now

have a duty on public health. They are actually building up to take

Because we have people from all around the world coming here. He

wants to make sure that London gets around the world coming here. He

its fair share of money from the government. That is the great power

Johnson. I look forward to the fact that he is standing up for Londoners

against anyone and everyone on behalf of of Londoners. That is

against anyone and everyone on job. The government has wasted

against anyone and everyone on pleased that Boris Johnson has

finally woken up. Three years too pleased that Boris Johnson has

finally woken up. Three years too late and millions of pounds wasted.

We will leave it there for now. Sadiq, of course, will be enjoying

the sea air in Brighton this week, as Labour's annual jamboree rolls

into town. Centre stage, we're told, will be the issue of the Cost of

Living. And the party leader has announcement. Ed Miliband says

Bedroom Tax. What the government Labour will scrap what it calls

Bedroom Tax. What the government calls the Spare Room Subsidy. What

normal folk might see more simply as cuts to housing benefit for those

deemed to be living in homes that are too big for them. I caught up

The first thing we're going to do is are too big for them. I caught up

end the bedroom tax. Many of the families affected are disabled.

end the bedroom tax. Many of the know it is not working. People are

being threatened with eviction. know it is not working. People are

stand up for these families and know it is not working. People are

kick them in the teeth like this government. You will pay for that I

taxing hedge funds again. Is it going back to the days when Labour

bashes the bankers? It is about fairness and making a decision about

how you spend scarce resources. fairness and making a decision about

you ask most people is it right fairness and making a decision about

give a tax break to hedge funds fairness and making a decision about

while the poorest people are in hardship, I would say the fairest

choice is to reverse the tax cut for the hedge funds and end the bedroom

tax. That is the right choice. People would say that this policy

just affects 80,000 people. Most Londoners are actually worried about

high rent. What can you do about that and building more homes? We

will show right across the board housing, we will tackle the cost of

will show right across the board living crisis. We will introduce

landlords, they can be struck off. We're looking at ways that councils

renting to drive down rent. And We're looking at ways that councils

are looking at ways to build more homes. Will you allow councils to

borrow more money to do that? I building more homes. And to deny

that is wrong. It has to be done within affordable units. It does not

sound like a clear commitment. Londoners want to know if you will

stimulate growth and do what a lot want. We will make that a priority

and we will talk exact the about what we can do. We are already

of pounds in new housing. We'll developers sitting on land. People

of pounds in new housing. We'll should not be allowed the loophole

allowing them to charge fares over and above the cap, which is what

this government has allowed. I'm amendments. That is a policy that

will affect millions who travel amendments. That is a policy that

and around London every day. So people would expect a commitment.

People want to commit and is on people would expect a commitment.

lot of issues. They also want a government that is credible. And I'm

determined to deliver that so I government that is credible. And I'm

only make commitments we know we can keep. With the bedroom tax we're

confident that we can find the money to do that. Obviously to make a

Conservative? That is what has happened in Harrow were in fighting

in your party has meant that people who voted for Labour now have the

Tory leadership. You always get issues in local councils. But people

should vote Labour if they want someone to tackle the cost of living

delivers. I'm incredibly proud of the Labour councils across London,

who are delivering. I can say that as a Labour leader that is proud of

who are delivering. I can say that the councils, that wasn't always

true but they do a fantastic job. We will be returning to Harrow in a

minute, but on the bedroom tax, We will be returning to Harrow in a

subsidy has outlawed in the Private sector the sometime -- the spare

room subsidy. So we are looking sector the sometime -- the spare

the social sector. This announcement overcrowded accommodation or waited

the social sector. This announcement keep it empty. There are clearly

extra room but it is an unfair keep it empty. There are clearly

policy. the policy is moving against the spare room policy, two thirds of

scrapped and even one third of people in... I think the reality is

that when you present it in a way of saying it is a tax, it isn't a tax.

It is clearly a subsidy that comes from the taxpayer who is subsidising

their properties. There are not people to give an empty room in

their properties. There are not one-bedroom properties in London

and... One of the problems in London is that we haven't built housing

penalise people for... No, we need the range and type of housing,

particularly adapted housing or disabled and elderly people that is

appropriate to their needs and we don't have that. The reason Bobby

Michael Portillo when it came to the poll tax 13 years ago, trying to

defend the indefensible. I have constituents in the armed services

and they know have to pay a bedroom reasonably keep the bedroom for

and they know have to pay a bedroom Other families in under crowded

accommodation because of this tax. This is not like the poll tax. Under

your own figures, this affects 80,000 people. That is not the poll

tax. The similarity is there is 80,000 people. That is not the poll

thought given to how it affects bigger families, to those who are

overcrowded, and another example of looking after the privileged few. Is

saying it is dog whistle politics. I looking after the privileged few. Is

morally just. Means people who live those who need a essential NHS

equipment in their bedrooms which briefly, it does show where we going

on the battle ground, the cost of living will beware the election

on the battle ground, the cost of won and lost. Absolutely. And I

on the battle ground, the cost of to the of London, the Mayor rather

needs to fix the increase in Tube fares and bus fares in January to

inflation, rather than doing what he has done every year for the last

seven years, which is doing it above expensive public transport in the

world. Sorted out. The current issue investment in transport to make

world. Sorted out. The current issue we have first-class Tube services,

bus services and rail services. we have first-class Tube services,

provided? Some has to come from we have first-class Tube services,

taxpayer, Sun has come from the fares and some has to come from

council tax. I have to talk about Harrow, because I know you do like

talking about this. If politics Harrow, because I know you do like

about anything, it is about power, so much of the activity at Labour

conference this week will surely be elections in London, when every

borough is up for grabs. For years, Labour's performance at the ballot

box has relied on black and Asian voters signing up for them. In one

estimate, 70% of ethnic voters support the party, but the party has

seen in recent years accusations of The darker bits on this map show the

part of London with the heaviest concentration of black and Asian

residents. There is a striking correlation in the councils won

residents. There is a striking Labour in the 2010 local elections.

Since then, Labour has lost two Labour in the 2010 local elections.

those authorities, Tower Hamlets and Harrow, both as a result of splits

in the local party that resulted in Harrow, both as a result of splits

in the Labour Party. In Harrow, majority after 2010. But it remained

a Labour council until May this own leader. He thought he was the

Independent Labour one the Council victim of racial discrimination

investigate what was going on. We were not leaving the Labour Party.

against us in the press and then were not leaving the Labour Party.

against us in the press and then expel us. So we had no choice. There

is a disease in the party that needs to be sorted out. There is a disease

encouraging discrimination and racism? Absolutely, I believe that.

Across London in Tower Hamlets, Labour lost power after the Borough

moved from a traditional council set moved from a traditional council set

up to a elected Mayor. Lutfur Rahman was as the step down after doubts

about the way he was selected. Jim Phillips said that the Tower Hamlets

group had acted... Lutfur Rahman went to win on the election as an

independent. In the town Hall this week, he says he saw similarities in

what happened in East London and question, where does natural justice

it in certain parts of the Labour Party. What has happened in Harrow

disappoints me. For it to be played out again into local authorities,

prominent local authorities, it demonstrates that Labour should

prominent local authorities, it working-class votes, black and

ethnic minority vote, for granted. On the streets this week, Labour's

candidate John Biggs. His message is that Labour is the party for all

ethnicities and Lutfur Rahman is focused on only one. All of his

councillors from the Bangladeshi community and the primary focus

councillors from the Bangladeshi his policy-making has been for one

community, very important one, but not the only one. My outlook is

community, very important one, but all of the community lives together

community, very important one, but and works together and maximises

of high-value jobs coming into the of high-value jobs coming into the

getting them. What we don't want to have is small communities which

getting them. What we don't want to separate from each other and very

will pass them by. Come election day separate from each other and very

next May, at least in this part separate from each other and very

party? I don't agree with that. separate from each other and very

have spent my life, both as a lawyer and a politician, and you have to be

very careful when you play the race card. In politics you win some and

you lose some. Lutfur Rahman lost the election and others lose and

when they lose, they decide to stand against the whip. If you do, it

when they lose, they decide to stand not unreasonable for you to be

suspended and expelled from the complacent and would not accept

suspended and expelled from the racism in London or anywhere in

suspended and expelled from the country. Have you investigated the

the council have looked into the allegations. None of them were

upheld, which reassures me. We are making sure we have a Labour Party

minority, 12 x 5% of the leaders of Labour councils in London are ethnic

minority -- Torpoint five. Did the NEC look at this? As a member of

this, when somebody votes against the whip, there is disciplinary

before... You don't send consent, because the split in Harrow was

before... You don't send consent, much based along race grounds. No,

it wasn't. There are more ethnic one at two Labour councillors in Harrow

together. And in Tower Hamlets, at two Labour councillors in Harrow

have a candidate who is a one nation Labour candidate appealing to all

You will have a view on what is happening is there is a massive

split in the Labour group and what has happened is the Labour Party

took ethnic minority councillors, in particular, the granted. What they

was unwell and had to resign, was replaced by his deputy. After six

months, the Labour Party then kick replaced by his deputy. After six

him out for another white candidate. ambitious and wanted his position.

Then equally, all of the people ambitious and wanted his position.

from it, I think it is personal ambition that has taken place. But

from it, I think it is personal politics is a dirty game! What I do

you elect someone who is the leader think it is fair to say is that

you elect someone who is the leader of the council, you have to give

them some period of time in order to of the council, you have to give

do a job. Your party has some work to do as well. Absolutely, we have a

problem going back historically to do as well. Absolutely, we have a

attracting black and ethnic minority people to our party. We have had a

problem in terms of getting councils Conservative group in Harrow is

problem in terms of getting councils ethnic minorities -- half. If the

results are better this time, we will have more than a majority of

will see how that pans out. And will have more than a majority of

it is time for the rest of the week's use in 60 seconds -- and

Greenwich Peninsula to the Royal docks has been labelled a flight but

looks to be coming down to earth. Only 20,000 people used the car

looks to be coming down to earth. to the end of September, 40,000

people for the same week last year. A Muslim woman from London who

demanded the right to stand trial wearing a niqab has been told she

Judge Peter Murphy told Black Friars Crown Court that it was essential

for the jurors to see her reaction Data from the Office of National

Statistics show London house prices have surged by 10% over the last

year, starting fears of a dangerous in July, up by £13,000. Tottenham

offensive to many Jews should not be describing themselves as such and

Yes, we will pick up on that last describing themselves as such and

Yes, we will pick up on that last course, that we will use once, was

themselves as that. You Tottenham fan, jee referred yourself is that?

themselves as that. You Tottenham I do, and the reality is where I

the country about the gassing of the I do, and the reality is where I

the country about the gassing of the Jews and hissing, as if imitating

the country about the gassing of the gas attack, and it is hatred. What

we do as a response as Tottenham fans is say we are proud of the

we do as a response as Tottenham that we are that and we are not

going to take it any more. And the concentration camps and gas chambers

I am very uncomfortable with people trying to normalise the Y-word or

the N word or the P-word, and my concern is that you are normalising

the use of that word and if others can I. The same relation niqab

the use of that word and if others the same thing goes for the N word

in relation to youth culture and let's try and not normalise words

that go back to dark scores in the history of humanity. I do want to do

the time but we will stick with football. Can I read your quote

the time but we will stick with see if you can guess who said it. If

the time but we will stick with I was at the edge of the box on

the time but we will stick with ball came three and I thought I

the time but we will stick with the best chance of shooting and

scoring, then I might do it. Who said it and what were they referring

to? I don't know. Martin Chivers? Steven Gerrard, when he's playing

for Liverpool. It is you, and you are talking about being Mayor in

London. Boris Johnson said would become a use of football. Maybe

London. Boris Johnson said would difference between Conservatives and

Labour. You are considering it? I am happy being the MP for capnext Mayor

Minister -- for Tooting. If the happy being the MP for capnext Mayor

came free at the edge of the box? If I can shoot and score, I will, but

only if the ball comes to me. Bob Blackman and Sadiq Khan, thanks

only if the ball comes to me. Bob much. Leafing through the papers the

only if the ball comes to me. Bob last few days has taken me back

only if the ball comes to me. Bob my youth. The halcyon days of the

only if the ball comes to me. Bob 2000s, when the warring Blairite and

Brown's chief spin doctor Damian should run the Labour Party. Gordon

of Labour's Conference. They detail timed for maximum impact in the

of Labour's Conference. They detail colleagues, brought down Cabinet

tooth and nail to promote the man he met" - Gordon Brown. Joining us

tooth and nail to promote the man he is Tony Blair's former Director

tooth and nail to promote the man he Communications, Alastair Campbell.

You are angry about what he has Communications, Alastair Campbell.

in this book. Why is that. It is partly the fact that he has done it

in a way that will be -- will be damaging to the Labour Party at

in a way that will be -- will be time. But also because of the lies

that he told at the time that he now communications and trying to hold

the thing together, build the team. There was also Charlie Whelan and

others. And that job was made more difficult than it should have been.

I used to challenge Gordon Brown about it. And there came a stage

where I said if Whelan does not about it. And there came a stage

I will go. And when Damian McBride was on the scene I was clear that I

was not going to have anything to do with him. Because of what he is

was not going to have anything to do admitting to, I think they played

quite a significant part in pushing Labour out of power. Because the

public were being fed by them, this public were being fed by them, this

narrative, the whole time. That Blair was useless, Charles Clarke

was useless. And I think that we where the government and had very

good ministers trying to do big things for the country. I said this

morning it was like being a foot tall team were on the pitch you

morning it was like being a foot your own players kicking the star

players. That is why I am angry about it because I think they helped

If we had all stuck together I think did not know about it. Well in spite

reasonably good relationship with Gordon Brown. I used to challenge

him a lot about what Whelan was doing. He would always say, I will

sort it out. Another thing that annoys me is this sense put forward

by the right wing media that there was this sense of equivalence.

People like Steve who I have known for years, there is not a single

journalist with the very occasional exception where I lost my temper,

who would honestly be able to tell you that I ever breathed against

ministers. That was my golden rule. People say you were the forerunner.

I know it was not the case. One People say you were the forerunner.

the reasons why I do despise what they did, the whole spin thing which

associated with, once I wrote a actually within the government,

associated with, once I wrote a had a principle of maximum openness

and trust. Anyone could come to had a principle of maximum openness

morning meetings on condition that what was discussed their state as

part of the team. I had to say to Gordon Brown, your people are not

coming. Because I knew where it Gordon Brown, your people are not

coming from. Did you know that the time but Charles Clarke and others

were effectively being destroyed from within the Labour government? I

me that that was what was happening. certainly knew that they thought

me that that was what was happening. Ultimately, this is why I never

Gordon Brown would have been an leaders, it is ultimately up to

Gordon Brown would have been an amazing Prime Minister. He was a

great chancellor. But he had a flaw, this need for truly horrible

people to be around him doing truly horrible things in politics and

giving him and the Labour Party horrible things in politics and

politics a bad name. That is why I'm still angry about Damian McBride.

What do you make of it? The current administration is a contrast. We

have rival factions occupying the same offices but they still get

have rival factions occupying the The only time they have a row is

when something really big happens. But with that one party in Downing

Street there was fighting the whole time. Did Ed Balls know about this.

I would assume so. I spoke with time. Did Ed Balls know about this.

about it at the time. He told me at the time that he had spoken about it

with Gordon Brown. So I think there was a concern from within that camp

about some of these activities at equivalence, in life you expect

about some of these activities at see that there is full on both

sides. But I do not buy it in this see that there is full on both

case. If you look at the testimonies see that there is full on both

over the years, what you can surmise about the character of Gordon Brown

and of Tony Blair, it was ultimately driven by Gordon Brown and the

retaliation rather than initiation. things but they did then by way

retaliation rather than initiation. The one-time when I did lose it

retaliation rather than initiation. the whole psychological force thing.

when we were relentlessly being the whole psychological force thing.

journalists. I would go along to the whole psychological force thing.

had to sit there and not hit back. the whole psychological force thing.

would have anything to do with the whole psychological force thing.

You get to the stage where your the whole psychological force thing.

credibility is on the line. Coming promotion of alcohol awareness.

credibility is on the line. Coming before that the Labour Party, you

never had to deal with this in opposition because you were pretty

far ahead in the polls by midterm. This time that is not the case.

far ahead in the polls by midterm. is surprisingly narrow. What advice

would you give to Ed Miliband? To keep his head out side of this

bubble but it's all about him. And to use this week to really speak to

the British people about himself, particularly the kind of policy

agenda he is shaping for the future. And start to heart -- start to hit

the Tories hard. They're not pop, they're not competent. They're

screwing up the health service. they're not competent. They're

yet they are neck and neck. I would say that the whole Shadow Cabinet

understand that you win elections by wanting to win elections every

minute of every day. There is too much complacency. A small lead now

you have to grow that. You do that with energy and conviction and

policy. Tony Blair had a huge pole bead in the run-up to 1997. We were

winning seat where we had not even campaigned and he was saying, why

yet. You are promoting your alcohol celebrate because we have not won

yet. You are promoting your alcohol awareness campaign. Perhaps the

party conference is not the best place to do that! That is one reason

why I am doing that. I'm hosting probably the only alcohol free

Why is that, is it cultural? I think reception of the week! There is

Why is that, is it cultural? I think it is historical. But I dig David

Cameron was right to go for minimum unit pricing and wrong to do a

reversal. 6% of alcoholics get treatment. I expect that drugs are a

problem but we spent £2 billion treatment. I expect that drugs are a

100,000 problem drug takers and treatment. I expect that drugs are a

million on 1.6 million problem have written this book about a young

million on 1.6 million problem alcoholic, a teenager. And it is in

the first person. People could think you are writing about yourself.

did you choose a teenage girl? Well did you choose a teenage girl? Well

partly, I dedicated this to the Southampton. He told me when he

started his career that his patience was split nine to one, men to women

and it is now 50 - 50. They're getting younger and younger. One

doctor looking after me said I will take you around this hospital and

the problems of alcohol are in every single ward. Not just accident and

emergency. I watched the foot all, advertisements for gambling and

advertising. How have we allowed this to happen, ? We are just awash

advertising. How have we allowed with it. What we did I think on

Availability and price either too means by which you can bring this

down. And the country that has had the biggest success on this is

much for that. That's all for today. Russia, bizarrely. Thank you very

much for that. That's all for today. from the man who wants to be the

next Chancellor, Ed Balls. Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday