13/10/2013 Sunday Politics London

Morning, welcome to the veritable Sunday Politics. We have Alastair

Moore hadn't. Ken Clarke just keeps Charmichael. We'll ask him what

Moore hadn't. Ken Clarke just keeps going on and on and on. He'll bang

Free of the shackles of Government, In the capital, a report by the

Diane Abbott will join us. That In the capital, a report by the

pundits who we try to shuffle out of a job but failed miserably, Mick

watt, Miranda Green Andijan an Ganesh. They'll Tweet like mad as if

Is Ed Miliband's Labour Party moving chid owe Cabinet reshuffle was seen

a a shift to the lot of. Two have announced policy changes which could

Pensions Secretary Rachel Reeves says Labour will be tougher on the

Tories. While Tristram Hunt says Labour loves Tory-style free schools

after all. Here he is on the BBC viewers. If you are a group of

parents, social entrepreneurs, teachers, interested in setting

parents, social entrepreneurs, school in areas where you need new

school place, the Labour Government will be on your side. That's free

enterprise and innovation. It will will be on your side. That's free

be in areas of need. We have a school places crisis going on. It

teachers in these schools. And accountability. What is going on

with the Al Madina school is because of terrible mistakes with Michael

changed, the change of tone is I'm not sure if the policies have

changed, the change of tone is remarkable, both on welfare and

changed, the change of tone is schools. A significant change of

reshuffle on the Labour frontbench last week was init wered as a purge

of Blair rights. It seemed to be a purge of anti-reform thinking.

of Blair rights. It seemed to be a Labour will be tough than the Tories

on welfare. You've seen that clip social entrepreneurs who want to set

these up. A different change. Why are they doing this? On education,

polarised. You've had the Michael department. This weekend, we've

polarised. You've had the Michael leaked memos from one of Michael

Gove's advisers which are extreme views about the state of education.

And on the other side teaching unions. It hasn't led to a healthy

debate which represents what parents want out of schools or employers.

This is a huge move from the Labour Party to sound more reasonable.

This is a huge move from the Labour have been silent on education which

is a huge policy area on the left. Is this a focus group-driven change?

They've seen the polls. Welfare reforms are hugery popular and free

only apiece the focus groups by changing the policy substantially. I

always thought a test for this Labour reshuffle was not whether Ed

Miliband would promote Blair rights, it is clear he did, it is whether

they would be allowed to be Blair rights. When Stephen Twigg carried

the education portfolio it was clear his own views were closer to the

Government than he was allowed to let on. He was constrained. There is

no point of giving Tristram Hunt this job if he is not allowed to say

what he thinks. I wouldn't mind betting privately he thinks free

schools should be available beyond just areas of need. He hasn't yet

defined need. It could be, we've run schools are so bad we need schools.

defined need. It could be, we've run If that is it, it is the same Asics

itsing Government policy. In they unsatisfactory that's no different.

itsing Government policy. In they He wanted to say he was in favour of

itsing Government policy. In they higher educational standards and

rigour, he had to tell the audience higher educational standards and

from Cambridge? Obviously to him it that. Is that worth something,

from Cambridge? Obviously to him it is. He said they would demand proper

teaching qualifications. That could teaching? Independent schools do not

have to have teachers with formal teaching qualifications. I've never

been to one? What about you? That decision by Michael Gove to allow

free schools to employ nonunionised and non-trained people, so he has to

Watch this space. The dust settled after the party resufficients. Do

the Tories look a bit more like Britain. Do the Tories look more

#4 With reshuffles, you're never really certain. There's whispers,

rumours, guesses. But the only way to know it is underway is keeping

beady eyes on a front door. Up until now, the only way we knew who was in

and who was out was who came walking down this bit of Downing Street

and who was out was who came walking a smile on their face after going to

see the boss. The once who are to be sacked, they usually go round the

back. Not this time. No, something new alerted us all. The-PM started

can't remember a triple decker reshuffle where you've three parties

changing ministerial teams at the resufficient happened on Twitter.

Not that the press stopped watching the door as well. News was a bit

Charmichael replaced Michael Moore, the first to be pounced on. I'm

disappointed to be leaving office now but pleased at what I've been

able to achieve in the last couple now but pleased at what I've been

of years. Not as pleased as one now but pleased at what I've been

imagines as the man receiving the welcome that went on, and on and

simultaneously having Jeremy Browne, welcome that went on, and on and

simultaneously having Jeremy Browne, the Home Office in conspiracy to let

# Blowing hi Jude through a traffic Democrats. We tend to think they are

herbivorous. Sacking a Cabinet Minister, another minister, Jeremy

Browne. By lunch time, the Tory ranks were shifting too. The PM

Browne. By lunch time, the Tory to boost the numbers of telegenic

women walking into Government and turning perceptions around. He

tipped a so-called flatcap to men backgrounds with room for some which

fitted neither label but are friends of George Osborne. And, all the

while, those new Tory ministers of George Osborne. And, all the

learning of Labour's changes. Labour too knows the value of new young

blood striding into the limelight. Again some with TV experience of

that. Tristram Hunt and Gloria de peer row would be hard to describe

as hard left. But Blairbrushing peer row would be hard to describe

past out of the picture seemed to be the name of the day. Liam Byrne

With Diane Abbott also gone, was this really a Blair right cull? It

depends what you mean. Blair right used to mean someone who wanted

depends what you mean. Blair right Blair to be leader of the Labour

Party. Somebody who worked closely with him. Now it means sometimes

people who believe in a certain with him. Now it means sometimes

of ideologyies or ideas. There are still very much those kind of Blair

rights within the party. But we still very much those kind of Blair

seeing the group around Tony Blair are not long assassin flew enjoys as

they once were. By evening, it was over. New bees were sharing the

ministers quietly thanked commits raters. Or -- commiserators. Or

the case, you are unlikely to get standing here might want it to

the case, you are unlikely to get "how could." And running off crying!

the case, you are unlikely to get Secretary Alastair Charmichael joins

the case, you are unlikely to get us from Orkney on a line that hasn't

been used since the fleet was used in the outbreak of World War I! I

wasn't around at the time. I'm hearing you loud and clear. Why

wasn't around at the time. I'm you agreed to run a department?

wasn't around at the time. I'm you wanted to abolish six years

wasn't around at the time. I'm Hello? Maybe our connections are not

Charmichael. Can you hear me? I Hello? Maybe our connections are not

hear you now. There was a nasty second there where you disappeared.

Let me try the question again. Why have you agreed to run a department

you wanted to abolish six years have you agreed to run a department

Because this is the, probably one of the most important jobs in British

politics at the moment. To ensure that Scotland remains part of the

UK. Even when I was talking about the reconfiguration of rep sen Taigs

of Scotland -- representation of Scotland within Whitehall, there was

always a job to be done. That is true in spades now. I will focus on

making sure the UK Government has a real voice in that debate. What

making sure the UK Government has a you that Michael Moore didn't have?

Look, I think Michael Moore did you that Michael Moore didn't have?

excellent job. The work he did delivering the Edinburgh agreement

clear legal and decisive referendum, the work delivering extra powers to

substantial piece of work. I'm not friend of mine. I will say that

substantial piece of work. I'm not we go forward into this, this is now

about the actual debate itself. we go forward into this, this is now

will be putting the case, with some passion, I hope, for Scotland to

just some abstract debate about nationhood, sovereignty, this is a

mortgage. That and an awful lot nationhood, sovereignty, this is a

mortgage. That and an awful lot you're being put in there to save

alley ahead. Mr Moore was doing you're being put in there to save

alley ahead. Mr Moore was doing pretty well to save the union. I

suspect you've been given the job to Scotland? And lieu, you misread

suspect you've been given the job to situation if you -- Andrew, you

misread the situation new think anybody is going to be the person

who will save the union. The people who will save the union are the

people of Scotland if they turn who will save the union are the

next year and vote to save the union. We have to put the case for

that. That is what I will be doing. Look at the position of your own

party. You came fourth in the last Scottish parentry elections. You

were even behind the Conservatives. The latest poll has you still in

fourth. Are you there because you're a bruiser and you will pep up the

Liberal Democrats opportunity in Scotland. If I had a pound for

everybody to referred to me as being Scotland. If I had a pound for

a bruiser, I wouldn't need to be sitting here this morning. I could

have retired by now. The truth of this, if I can address it once and

for all, I have done probably one of the most complex and subtle jobs in

three-and-a-half years, Liberal Democrat Chief Whip in a Coalition

survived in that job a week, let alone three-and-a-half years, if I

was the sort of person who went around picking unnecessary fights.

So, can we just please forget about this business about being a bruiser.

As far as the position of the party in the polls, this is true also

As far as the position of the party the referendum vote, opinion polls

are a snapshot. They are not a prediction of what will happen in

the future. I will be out there putting the case. Neither the next

or lost yet. One of the things I election nor the referendum is one

or lost yet. One of the things I really want to be guarding against

because we are a good margin ahead Believe me, Andrew, it is not. As

the polls. You came fourth in the you know, wasn't for the Liberal

the polls. You came fourth in the David Cameron face him? I am happy

debate. Should David Cameron face him? No, because that allows Alex

Nationalists to portray this as him? No, because that allows Alex

sort of contest or choice between a vision of Scottish social democracy

is not. This is a debate that has to is not. This is a debate that has to

be held in Scotland about the future of Scotland amongst Scots. David

Cameron has a very important part in Scotland's public life, but he is

not Scottish and I think he will accept Commies edit himself in fact,

the person who should be debating Darling. He has got a Scottish name

wealthiest of Scotland at some stage in the past. Anyway, you described

the campaign to keep the union together as lacking passion, were

you referring to the campaign or referring to Alistair Darling. I

think what I was saying is that referring to Alistair Darling. I

we move into this new stage, and Alistair Darling said it himself, we

are now campaigning for people Alistair Darling said it himself, we

hearts because if you look at the range of papers the Government has

published, it is pretty clear the arguments lie in relation to the

for the hearts and Scotland because head. I am not giving up the battle

for the hearts and Scotland because there is a good strong case, as

somebody who is proud to be Scottish and to be British, for Scotland

celebratory drink for your new post. remain part of the UK. You come

celebratory drink for your new post. Not a drop has touched my lips.

celebratory drink for your new post. supporting local business! I will be

making up for lost time on the supporting local business! I will be

of November, I will be doing it supporting local business! I will be

aid of Macmillan Cancer care and if website, they can donate. It is

worthwhile. I cannot think of a better cause. One Cabinet minister

who many thought might get Reef better cause. One Cabinet minister

Clarke. Welcome to Sunday Politics. This reshuffle was about new blood,

minorities, where did you fit in? I minorities, where did you fit in? I

would describe myself as the elder statesman, to be polite, but it

would describe myself as the elder difficult to replace them. I enjoy

it. It is a great privilege to have a role in Cabinet and I will carry

on as long as David wants me to a role in Cabinet and I will carry

I have seen many reshuffles, they are dreadful and I seem to have

survived them so far. Did David Cameron talk to you before this

reshuffle? No, he didn't. I would have had expected a phone call,

asking, how do you think about stepping down, but he didn't and my

role is one of giving my wit and wisdom to the Cabinet and meetings

of the Security Council so he has got to put up with me a bit longer.

You said you are going to stand again at the next election, why

You said you are going to stand you keep going? What do you hope to

achieve in politics? I am mostly a political anorak, I have been since

politics but the older I get I get governance of the country and at the

moment the combination of problems of tackling the modern world is

moment the combination of problems difficult and I find it fascinating.

The old argument that attracts every decent person into politics, you

might be able sometimes to make decent person into politics, you

experience but we will have a lot of tackle. You opposed referenda on

Maastricht, the Lisbon Treaty, you were even against one on Britain

adopting the euro. It must follow that you are against the referenda

on Britain's membership to the EU? I accountable to the long-term and

representatives, but this is a minority now and my colleagues have

firmly decided a referendum needs to be held to settle the question of

Britain's relationship with the European Union which I think is

Britain's relationship with the of the most important things in

Britain's place in the modern world politicians are able to look after

the living standards, the economy, the safety against terrorism. Last

the living standards, the economy, summer you said that only extreme

nationalists wanted a silly EU referendum. It follows your party

must be full of extremely silly nationalists. The people who are

desperate to have a referendum are all the people who actually want to

referendum will involve the public and people like me have got to get

across to the public, don't just feel angry about the last thing

across to the public, don't just read in the newspaper about what the

commission is or is not doing, do commission is or is not doing, do

bear in mind this is our base in the modern world. We happen to be a

leading member, almost as valuable and rich as the Americans, from

influence in events. That is not and rich as the Americans, from

influence in events. That is not just how the politicians get on

influence in events. That is not politicians look after us when we

spilling over from the Middle East, threatened. You didn't even turn

spilling over from the Middle East, to vote for the bill which will

spilling over from the Middle East, It seemed to get through without my

Look, many of your colleagues I It seemed to get through without my

interviewed say that if the choice was between the state -- the status

quo with the European Union and leaving, they would leave. The truth

is that you would vote to stay in even on the status quo, wouldn't

supporting the EU to leave now if I got chance. I think our economy

supporting the EU to leave now if I much stronger than it would have

investment, as in Washington last been if we were outside the EU.

investment, as in Washington last week. We are trying to roll forward

the prospect of free trade and I have to reassure Americans that

the prospect of free trade and I are not likely to leave the EU to

That is true but it also needs reform. The cry for reform, which is

particularly Germany, is a good reform. The cry for reform, which is

Even if David Cameron came back reform. The cry for reform, which is

nothing from Brussels, you would still vote to stay in, correct?

one which is dwindling in comparison with others, in the modern world it

would be dangerous. I also think the dangers of the Middle East and the

dangers of some of the countries disengage. I will take that as a

strengthen the case, and of some members of the public don't agree

reforms. The latest poll gives Labour a ten point lead over the

Paul to 27%. How would you see off ten point lead is because UKIP are

Paul to 27%. How would you see off and effective Government. We faced

popular as the previous Government I and effective Government. We faced

popular as the previous Government I have served in under the three

previous prime ministers. When you get an election, people have to

previous prime ministers. When you themselves who do we want to decide

the issues of war and peace in this country? Who do we want to get us

out of our economic problems. I don't think Ed Miliband is up to it.

That generalised stuff will not don't think Ed Miliband is up to it.

off UKIP. People will not listen to that. When people answer an opinion

poll, they tell you how annoyed that. When people answer an opinion

are by something that has recently upset them, but people are more

sensible than this. Every Government I have served in has been behind in

the polls. At a general election you have to mobilise the public to start

thinking, who do we want to govern us? They did take over a calamitous

important problems to be decided going forward. UKIP represents

anti-immigration, anti-foreigners, anti-Europe, anti-politics but I

Thank you. Once upon a time, a politician whose career ended in

disgrace might choose to lie low for a while, perhaps to spend a bit

disgrace might choose to lie low for time tending the tulips and doing

the odd bit of charity work. Not Chris Huhne. He walked free from

prison only five months ago but Chris Huhne. He walked free from

interview. So is he working on a inviting me back. You have set your

on that front in terms of business non-governmental organisations,

on that front in terms of business I am doing a column for the Guardian

on Mondays. You obviously get a I am doing a column for the Guardian

of material from the Sunday Politics to write about. Have you embarked on

political rehabilitation? It was clear from the point of view of

political rehabilitation? It was George when I was sentenced, he

rehabilitating you, because I had not offended for ten years, it was

actually about stopping people like you, Andrew, Ron doing the same

thing. It was a deterrent effect for the public. That is I think why

thing. It was a deterrent effect for prosecution was brought. I had not

offended for ten years on this, rehabilitate yourself in the public?

coalition to the bitter end? Or should they re-establish their own

Coalition agreement is for the whole Parliament, and the Lib Dems are

going to stay, and should stay. What would be a good result for the Lib

Dems in 2015? The loss of ten, would be a good result for the Lib

interesting election because I think you will have essentially three

party leaders, all of whom are negative ratings so it will be a

battle between the walking wounded. In those circumstances, in my view,

the Lib Dems can come out very In those circumstances, in my view,

well. But you will lose seats, won't In those circumstances, in my view,

the Liberal Democrats do badly in could come fourth on fifth behind

in countless cycles where we've could come fourth on fifth behind

very low poll ratings. The normal pickup to the subsequent general

election on average has been 10 percentage points. So he's not in

jeopardy? I think Nick will be there at the next general election. I

think he'll lead the party into at the next general election. I

next general election. I expect we'll do much better than most

people think. If we are heading we'll do much better than most

another hung Parliament, which is Let's be honest, you'd rather be in

coalition with the Labour Party Let's be honest, you'd rather be in

have a repeat of the Conservatives? One of the key things I sawed to

colleagues, whatever your personal preference, I used to be a Labour

Party member, you can derive from that I'm on the left of centre of

the party. I always said to my colleagues in the party, it is

the we are in politics because we are Liberal Democrats, not because

we are either Conservatives or second best Labour. If you don't

take that view, you don't have any bargaining position when it comes to

coalition. You have to be able, genuinely, to do a coalition with

either of the other parties. I understand that, but you'd prefer

Labour? Your personal preference really should not come into this. It

is about making sure you get the best possible deal for the things

you get that with one party rather than another, that's fine. You stand

up for Liberal Democrat values, than another, that's fine. You stand

for Conservative or Labour second best values. You said you're keeping

up your interest in energy matters. Is Ed Miliband right to promise

up your interest in energy matters. temporary price freeze? There's

up your interest in energy matters. pop ewe louse posturing. It is not

up your interest in energy matters. sensible policy. It was tried in

California in 2,000 and 2001 which led to blackouts. We had the Prime

Minister promising we should sift led to blackouts. We had the Prime

getting clap trap. You're against the political cycle where we are

getting clap trap. You're against the freeze? It is a bad idea when

getting clap trap. You're against are trying to encourage investment.

base price? The other European Ian the lowest gas and electricity

base price? The other European Ian prices are only higher because they

put a lot more taxes on to it? Our base energy prices are among the

highest in Europe? No, if you look at EU comparisons in what goes out

to people's households. That's after all the taxes have been put on them?

to people's households. That's after . The Conservatives are claiming

green taxes is George Osborne with should no better. One the-hip ok

not want it. We do not need it to agreement because the Conservatives

not want it. We do not need it to electricity system. It was a revenue

raising measure by the Tories. It set off a whole load of hairs about

green taxes which are now coming home to roost. Final point to you,

wish we'd more time to talk, you're a big supporter of Leveson-style

press regulation. Will you stop writing for The Guardian if it

refuses to sign up to the Leveson charter? I think that's neither

refuses to sign up to the Leveson nor there. The Guardian gives me a

up to what you believe in will you up to what you believe in will you

support it? No because I'm sure point. I think newspapers will sign

up for it. They've had a collapse in public trust and confidence in

recent years. Unparalleled. They you can come back and we'll talk

Coming up in about 20 minutes, we'll Coming up in about 20 minutes,

Welcome to the London part of the show. I'm joined by my guests for

the next 20 minutes or so, the Conservative MP for Bromley and

chisel Hurst Bob Neill and the Labour MP for Poplar and Limehouse.

A report from the Conservatives about the London Assembly says we've

misunderstood human trafficking about the London Assembly says we've

men are the forgotten victims. Robinson, leader of the English

claiming the organisation's become Robinson, leader of the English

departure strengthen or weaken the organisation? I think it weakens it.

He has been a very well listened to, too well listened to spokesperson. I

gave as good as he got. A very good interview. Andrew was very robust

with him. But he was very much the most articulate of the EDL spoke

persons. His departure weakens them and that's a good thing. The other

side of the coin, he acted as a brake on the more extreme parts

side of the coin, he acted as a the group. If he's gone, is there a

risk they become more extreme? We have to see what his real motives

are about this departure. He has other matters hanging over him.

Let's see what happens on that. other matters hanging over him.

extreme and nasty people. We are extreme Is. There is a risk any

organisation that has a lot of fan to be careful to avoid. But we have

to make it very clear that the EDL, whoever was leading it, was a nasty

disenfranchised and feel the EDL whoever was leading it, was a nasty

disenfranchised and feel the EDL gives them a voice? I think both

parties recognised questions of immigration and the like. People on

the white working class end of society have felt let down and not

listened to. The trouble with the EDL however, as Bob says, it was too

extreme. Even the majority of white voters were not interested in it.

Robinson's departure, we've history. The National Front self-destructed.

The BNP self-destructed. EDL are going the same way. That is a good

thing. Because of the scrutiny from mainstream political parties on

thing. Because of the scrutiny from extreme issues they put forward

deprives them of their respect ability. Is there good waiting for

the group to collapse if those are the concerns of the people who

support them? I think that's what we are doing. The Government is getting

fairness in immigration. I'm glad are doing. The Government is getting

the Labour Party is in a similar place. That's why for a lot of hard

working, the traditional white trying to bring fairness into the

system on redressing genuine issues. You must do it in a way that as

proportionate. Doesn't stigmatise people and is not divisive in our

communities. All the major parties need to continue to be on the front

Next week, the Government's expected to come forward with details of

Next week, the Government's expected new Anti-Slavery Bill. Before that,

will tomorrow release a report Conservatives on the London Assembly

will tomorrow release a report arguing human trafficking is not

young women. Words, which for some slavery, the sexual exploitation of

young women. Words, which for some people, may almost be synonymous. In

Conservatives on the London Assembly will argue that link between sexual

Conservatives on the London Assembly slavery and human trafficking is

Conservatives on the London Assembly attention, they say, need to be

Conservatives on the London Assembly Conservatives introduced us to this

someone's home. Once arrived, she Conservatives introduced us to this

someone's home. Once arrived, she movement was very limited. I was not

allowed to go out on my own as I allowed to go out on my own as I

like. She was beating me. She was controlling me. If it was to be

like. She was beating me. She was my country I would just run back and

say I don't want to stay. But here, I can't run back. I don't have

money. She took away my passport, documents. Everything. So, I was

slave. I was a prisoner. At some point, I think about committing

suicide. Then I remember my family back home. I remember my mum, my

feel worth living. What am I living for. When finally she spoke Stott

police, she did not get the response she was looking for. The policeman

got very upset. Did I know how long investigate. For them to do this.

For them, it was my own decision to employment. It is nothing to do

For them, it was my own decision to trafficking. I mean, that just made

The green acres caravan site near Luton, four men were et convicted

for keeping four men test toot. There needs to be more recognise on

of people being trove #yked in the UK and male victims who are often

Britain is men. When you say men slaves, it is men exploited at work.

They are brought into this country I'm joined by the author of the

report, Conservative Andrew Boff and Andrew, you accept trafficking

exists and it is a big problem? It certainly does. But my concern is

while you view trafficking through sexual exploitation into brothels,

you're missing a whole range of trafficking, of suffering, of people

testimony. Is that what's happening? Are the authorities missing out

testimony. Is that what's happening? layer of people, men particularly,

being trafficked? They absolutely are. One of the things we did in our

report was to survey social workers, police officers, teachers, to find

trafficking was. It was shocking. The lack of knowledge they had about

what made a person a trafficked victim. What in your view makes

somebody trafficked? Somebody who is brought into a country against their

will and held and forced to do is nearly all about exploiting

people for labour, of undercutting other people in the destination

country. People are brought into this country not necessarily under

Dewar rest. But once they are here, they have no way of escaping from

that commitment they've initially victim. What do you say to that

Mary, do you agree there as been a whole layer of people and victims

ignored and forgotten about? I'm not sure they have. There has been,

rightly in fact, a concentration on sure they have. There has been,

trafficking of women and girls for sexual exploitation because that is

very serious indeed. It is a real problem in London. The statistics

women who are prostituted in London, problem in London. The statistics

women who are prostituted in London, have been trafficked. It is a huge

women who are prostituted in London, them at all. But the trafficking of

women who are prostituted in London, issue. Why are you shaking your

the evidence I received indicates it is nowhere near that number of

people who are trafficked into brothels. The majority of people

trafficked. Very clearly, are not trafficked. The Metropolitan Police

were given £500,000 before the Olympics in order to find these

were given £500,000 before the period, they found the same number

in the year before. And that money was therefore waisted. They should

have been looking at the grooming of example, there's been an increase in

the number of cases of young boys 13% in the space of two years.

The point is, I'm trying to alert people to the fact this is the next

Jimmy Savile scandal waiting to happen. Unless we attend to it now,

we are going to have a crisis about trafficking in this country. We

we are going to have a crisis about missing the syringe Tims of the

we are going to have a crisis about -- Vic timings. - Vic #2i78s. Do you

think there needs to be a shift -- Vic timings. - Vic #2i78s. Do you

the focus now? Trafficking is a disagreeing with Andrew. I wouldn't

want and -- resources taken away. The statutory agencies who seem

want and -- resources taken away. be not performing terribly well

want and -- resources taken away. more money. One of the things that

is very controversial that you say opportunities. What are you talking

a fairly dangerous course of action opportunities. What are you talking

a fairly dangerous course of action under 18, they do not have the

ability to make any kind of consent whatsoever and we need to protect

them but the fact is that while whatsoever and we need to protect

concentrate on trafficking only taking place in brothels, we are

missing the young victims. Do these distinctions help the argument?

missing the young victims. Do these sounds like an intellectual argument

about something which is terrible gang masters act, that was after

Cotton pickers died in their dozens and this is the other side of the

same coin. Mary is right and I don't think Andrew is disagreeing, this is

exploited for sex and who have been exploited for sex and who have been

exploited for Labour. I don't think we are giving enough attention

across the piece. He is saying there have dealt with some nasty cases

over the years, young people are exploited both male and female with

dreadful consequences either way. Sometimes there are sectors of

victims who are not as readily perceived as others, but I think the

police have upped their game as perceived as others, but I think the

as that is concerned. We need better working between the agencies, often

the information is already there. problem is that the agencies are not

pleas from people who have come problem is that the agencies are not

the police stations, not recognising them as victims of trafficking.

the police stations, not recognising much as we may think we are arguing

are missing a whole level of abuse. police just got a mere few hundred

brothels during the Olympics, one of the major sporting events of the

brothels during the Olympics, one of last decade. You are right, but

brothels during the Olympics, one of the resources are not that great,

brothels during the Olympics, one of surely it concentrates your mind on

spending them even more wisely. What is your response to the anti-slavery

act that will be proposed? I think it could be a good thing. I think it

act that will be proposed? I think is very good that the Home Secretary

is taking notice of this issue and it is a good thing it is being

introduced. I think we need to look introduced. I think we need to look

carefully at it to make sure it introduced. I think we need to look

the sorts of things which are going to deal with the issues we have

the sorts of things which are going racing today so we need to watch it

but in principle it is a good thing. against their will, difficult for

the authorities to know what to against their will, difficult for

but if people come to the police station and tell them, why don't

they respond? I'm glad we have all recognised Theresa May has taken an

important initiative and I think there is crossed -- cross-party

consensus but it comes down to making sure police officers on the

middle management and front line are aware of the issues and respond

appropriately. It is not unique aware of the issues and respond

this issue that sometimes you find the police frankly not giving the

response that they should be. We strengthen the framework within

which the officers are working. London is producing more rubbish

than it can process. The gap is growing and there are ambitious

targets to end household waste going growing and there are ambitious

targets to end household waste going to landfill by 2025, and to double

the average recycling rates by to landfill by 2025, and to double

New facilities are needed to get on rarely popular with the locals.

New facilities are needed to get on 850,000 tonnes of rubbish each

New facilities are needed to get on and burn the rest as fuel. This

New facilities are needed to get on million. This was a massive exercise

in logistics, in financing, and million. This was a massive exercise

technology so you are going to spend the right amount of money to get the

right and proper information to decision. The authority says the

plan was dropped because local planning changes over the summer

mean it is more likely to be able to replace this incinerator in Edmonton

and save money. But the pink way allowance has long warned about

and save money. But the pink way cost and said the whole process

and save money. But the pink way been badly handled. It is a terrible

waste of taxpayers' money and it been badly handled. It is a terrible

waste of taxpayers' money and it Campaigners say they will not let

the Pinkham Way site become an industrial site. Has it been a waste

of time and money? Listening to industrial site. Has it been a waste

interview, clearly an assessment has been made that the money spent has

identified what could or could not have been done, the alternative

identified what could or could not they say will save £900 million

identified what could or could not in these austere times I don't think

it is a difficult question for local authorities to conclude. The life of

the incinerator in Edmonton has authorities to conclude. The life of

extended. Is that the right way authorities to conclude. The life of

deal with the waste issues Londoners will be facing? The waste issues are

difficult ones, I remember years ago Lucky you! I used to get all of

difficult ones, I remember years ago fun jobs, but it is a serious issue

he is now working with the London and my concern about this is making

he is now working with the London million of abortive expenditure

he is now working with the London get where we are. The recycling

board says there will be 4 million tonnes of rubbish that the city

board says there will be 4 million not have the infrastructure to deal

with in the future, that is a crisis waiting to happen, isn't it? It

with in the future, that is a crisis an indictment, we need to get on top

of that. How? It has taken so long backbench MP! The government have

there, Boris has got all his finger got to make sure the regulations are

there, Boris has got all his finger out and make sure the GMA delivers.

The fact we have going to have out and make sure the GMA delivers.

million tonnes of extra waste is acceptable. Now it is time for the

seconds. Former transport Secretary Andrew Adonis dismissed the call for

season ticket tax breaks from Boris Johnson as a classic Boris gimmick

saying it would only apply to ticket bought the stuff by employers.

Research by the charity Leonard Cheshire Disability found half of

London councils make home care visits of only 15 minutes. The

government says Short visits can be useful sometimes but the charity

wants them banned. A study has suggested a link between exposure to

noise pollution from living near airports and an increased risk of

strokes and cardiovascular illness. The advertising standards authority

says the claim on Home Office vans driven through London in July and

106 arrests made in your area last week were misleading. It added

106 arrests made in your area last good thing to be dissuading people

106 arrests made in your area last to be here illegally. At the end of

the day, we were talking about this earlier on, the issue over the EDL,

illegally and it makes it hard for communities who have come here

properly and they are working hard. If you are here illegally, I don't

think this is something to apologise for. The authority said it was not

offensive, it was just inaccurate. If we are going to be prejudiced, we

have to deal with that truthfully and the fact that the advertising

standards agency said that the adverts were not factual, that plays

into the hands of the extremists because that says the government is

everything to camouflage the issue. think it was pandering to the EDL,

we need to have an argument with the think it was pandering to the EDL,

communities and build a cohesive society. Everybody wants to see

communities and build a cohesive and these tactics were plain wrong.

That is all we have time for. Back ministerial team this week with

That is all we have time for. Back commentators calling it the purge of

the Blairites, but one poor lamb who fell victim to this perch was Diane

Abbott, not somebody who worshipped at the altar of Tony Blair. Life on

the backbenches means she can pursue other interests such as attending

the Cheltenham literary Festival, and where she joins us now. Welcome.

Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He think the thing that did it for

Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He no idea but the fact that I was

Why did Ed Miliband fire you? He public about my concerns on Syria

probably tipped my enemies in the end he agreed with your line on

probably tipped my enemies in the Syria so why would that be for

dismissal? I agree with you - you're fired. Because I actually spoke

dismissal? I agree with you - you're and it was the fact that I spoke up,

which was like a pebble falling and it was the fact that I spoke up,

forest or something. I am glad I spoke up on Syria. He doesn't like

people around them than who are outspoken, who speak their minds? I

think he's convinced he needs people who read from the scripts. People

increasingly upset that even though who read from the scripts. People

I was speaking party policy, I was reading from the script. Since Mr

Miliband bid you farewell, you've said he's doing his best. Is his

best good enough? I am sure it will be. I've always said the Labour

Party chose the right Miliband. be. I've always said the Labour

will remain loyal to him on the backbenches. You're going to be

loyal? However, I want to join in the debate. You're going to be

loyal? Absolutely. I was loyal both in public and private when others

were bitching about him behind the from the backbenches, I hope to

were bitching about him behind the involved in the debate particularly

around nick policy. Et's see how loyal you are. You must be happy

with all this new tough talk on welfare and free schools? Well,

with all this new tough talk on think both Rachel and Tristram are

sure Tristram will be aware of that. thing. But diminishing the role

sure Tristram will be aware of that. As for welfare, I'm sure Rachel

knows some of the cuts the Tories ublingtive in -- productive in terms

of spending. You wouldn't call that your full-hearted endorsement, would

you? What are you on, and lieu? your full-hearted endorsement, would

haven't seen the detail of Rachel's new position. You have to wait and

see the detail. It is in the papers. You haven't stopped reading the

papers. It was the Observer. When will you announce you're running for

Mayor of London? I have no plans to announce that I'm running for Mayor

Mayor of London? I have no plans to of London. No plans. That's what

Michael his I will Tyne used to of London. No plans. That's what

me. He had no plans to run against Margaret Thatcher. Are these the

same kind of plans you have? I know. No, no. I have no plans. You know

going for it. Everybody knows you're going for it. Just fess up to your

old mate! ! I have no plans to run. If you did run, who would be, what

would be your biggest threat other than yourself? I think there's a lot

of very talented candidates, David They are all talented. I would have

to weigh up the field. What do you think your chances would be of

getting the taxi drivers' vote? Well, you know, Andrew, some of

getting the taxi drivers' vote? most loyal viewers of This Week

getting the taxi drivers' vote? were taxi drivers and their wives.

I'm not frightened of reaching out to middle England. You will find if

you walk around London sub usual ya, to middle England. You will find if

you walk around London sub usual ya, they all know me and they all love

This Week. Love This Week. I thought they all know me and they all love

you were going to say they all love Michael Portillo. He wasn't a happy

chappie on Thursday night. You can't her. She had decided to leave this

something else in politics. She had taken what appeared to be a

something else in politics. She serious and was committed to the

issues. I'm quite disappointed for her. Why would Ed Miliband do such a

thing. You just mentioned about London mayor, did Diane not ask

thing. You just mentioned about Someone who's an eminent person

thing. You just mentioned about this programme, I don't know how he

could do that. I think Michael's missing you. Are you free this

Thursday night? Make him a happy man, come back to the fold. I think

I may be free this Thursday night. So, if he'll have me, I'll be there.

My people will speak to your people. We'll get it sorted out. Diane,

watch that big vase behind you, you're not insured for. That thanks

Does she have a chance of being Mayor of London? She's very well

known as Michael pointed out. That is important. People who are outside

known as Michael pointed out. That the party fold have traditionally

done well in the mayoral election. The job of being a London mayor

done well in the mayoral election. running an economy the size of a

nation. It is a very serious job. There may be problems with her

running? That was a transparent There may be problems with her

for it. She's potentially a very compelling Coll ticks. People have

left-winger but she's quite tough and conservative. Michael Gove said

he had fallen in love with Diane which That's one vote he has. What

Abbott is she has a fantastic way of connecting. She has a really good

way of connecting wi people. She would be a very strong candidate in

way of connecting wi people. She candidate. It will probably be a

Labour wins the 2015 election it may Labour win next time. Depends, if

Labour wins the 2015 election it may be more difficult. There's a danger

That's true. London is traditionally primary but isn't necessarily a

That's true. London is traditionally a Labour city. But Boris managed to

win as an outsider. There are big dangers for Labour with that. I

think, as I said before, somebody who seems a bit independent from

their own party machinery tend to do We've only had mayors so far that

were independent? Indeed. And how well Ken Livingstone did last time.

Not that far behind bar Is Johnson. well Ken Livingstone did last time.

Not that far behind bar Is Johnson. He was and is much more left-wing

than Diane Abbott. Diane didn't He was and is much more left-wing

stray on Syria, it was immigration. Why was Jeremy brown replaced by

This is very much to do with Clegg deciding he has to go back to those

people who abandoned the Liberal Democrats the day they went into

coalition with the Conservatives really, and convince them there

coalition with the Conservatives some holy areas of policy, sacred

areas which they will defend. That includes civil liberties. In the

Home Office, that incident with includes civil liberties. In the

immigration vans went down very badly across the whole nation. Went

down particularly badly with Liberal Democrats and voters. In the Home

somebody there to put a shield on purpose behind it. And Nick Clegg

has won the argument against the left, Vince Cable on the economy,

away day in July, briefings say DrCable's been put in his box. He's

won the argument on economic policy against the left. When it comes

won the argument on economic policy the touchstone issue in the Home

vote on the left. And please The Guardian. This is important for

that Nick Clegg has to keep his something else going on which is

that Nick Clegg has to keep his parliamentary party happy. That

involves giving them ministerial jobs. A lot of Liberal Democrats

because vacancies have to be created losing their jobs, Michael Moore,

because vacancies have to be created Liberal Democrat MPs will have been

on the payroll. It is effective party management. I want to move on

to press regulation. Brian Leveson's famous report, appeared before the

parliamentary select committee. famous report, appeared before the

will run you a clip from Connor politicians got involved in this. We

moved away from the press 300 years ago. The centr commitment is Lord

Leveson wanted a system the press self-regulation. This is state

involvement which I worry about profoundly. He sits on the media

interviews and investigations into the media. Chris Huhne said earlier

he thought all the newspapers would sign up to the Government-backed

Royal Charter. I think he's totally should. But he did say they would. I

think he's wrong. They won't sign up. All the mood music when that

Royal Charter was agreed on Friday was they would not sign up. It is

Maria Miller, is essentially saying to the press industry, if you don't

sign up, the Royal charter will to the press industry, if you don't

ahead. I cannot control the Labour to the press industry, if you don't

industry is wind the clock back to the press industry, if you don't

what they are calling the Puttnam stage. That was earlier this year,

Lord Puttnam was tack amendments which would introduce statutory

regulation. Maria Miller says you statutory legislation but if you

don't sign up to this, it will be a lot worse. Will that work? Playing

the good cop, bad cop routine? Will that pressurise everyone to sign up.

Lots of people are saying this will be a club with no members. It won't

but most, will go the legal route be a club with no members. It won't

Government's proposing and will be a club with no members. It won't

it to strains Bowring where freedom of the press is enshrined. They

it to strains Bowring where freedom fight this? There is enough fury

amongst Fleet Street to result in that. The big political question

going forward is which of the party leaders does the press blame the

most for the emergence of press regulation? The Tories are very

confident they'll blame Ed Miliband the most. They'll target him before

2015. David Cameron gave us Brian Leveson. You appoint a judge who

shouldn't be surprised with what you got in the Leveson report? I big

chunk of press will look at David Cameron saying, you were the guy who

intended what will happen. If he had have appointed Brian Leveson. If

they face more punitive fines over Labour ale cases they take that

they face more punitive fines over Europe. The Daily Mail and the

tallest presumably will have to suspend their campaign of Britain to

leave the European Convention of suspend that. We must never come out

Churchill was behind it. He was indeed. But it is actually a major

constitutional issue whether you regulate the press or not. There was

constitutional issue whether you a lot of ill feeling that this Marie

ya miller statement was snubbing out on Friday afternoon. Somebody said

freedom of the press too important to sneak out on afully afternoon.

The whole subject should be treated to sneak out on afully afternoon.

The whole subject should be treated with respect. We've run out of time.

I'll be back next Sunday with the Communities Secretary Eric Pickles

at our usual time of 11.00am. If