Browse content similar to 15/05/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
Line | From | To | |
---|---|---|---|
comparing the mission of the European Union with | :00:37. | :00:45. | |
what Hitler was trying to achieve - has the Leave campaign's self-styled | :00:46. | :00:48. | |
Churchillian attack dog gone too far? | :00:49. | :00:54. | |
He says leaving the European Union | :00:55. | :00:55. | |
will improve the lives of the "have nots" - | :00:56. | :00:58. | |
but is the man who presided over billions of pounds of welfare | :00:59. | :01:01. | |
cuts really on the side of working people? | :01:02. | :01:03. | |
Reducing the powers of the House of Lords | :01:04. | :01:07. | |
would not be acceptable, says the woman charged with keeping order | :01:08. | :01:09. | |
in the upper house - but with 60 government defeats | :01:10. | :01:12. | |
in the last year alone have their Lord and Ladyships | :01:13. | :01:14. | |
And with me - as always - three journalists who'd have been | :01:15. | :01:41. | |
sure to win the Eurovision political punditry contest: Helen Lewis, | :01:42. | :01:43. | |
Isabel Oakeshott and Amol Rajan who'll be tweeting throughout | :01:44. | :01:46. | |
So earlier in the week the Prime Minister warned that | :01:47. | :01:52. | |
leaving the EU could precipitate armed conflict in Europe. | :01:53. | :01:54. | |
Today, Boris Johnson hits back, comparing the European Union | :01:55. | :01:56. | |
to Hitler in an interview with the Sunday Telegraph: | :01:57. | :02:00. | |
"Napoleon, Hitler, various people tried this out, | :02:01. | :02:02. | |
The EU is an attempt to do this by different methods." | :02:03. | :02:20. | |
Boris goes on to say "The euro has become a means by which superior | :02:21. | :02:23. | |
German productivity is able to gain an absolutely unbeatable advantage | :02:24. | :02:25. | |
Could you organise an ordinance that British politicians should just shut | :02:26. | :02:43. | |
up about Hitler? It is an interesting one, the campaign are | :02:44. | :02:49. | |
getting quite grumpy, saying that he was not really talking about Hitler. | :02:50. | :02:56. | |
Boris is to clever not to know that if you mention Napoleon and Hitler | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
people will write headlines. He is a columnist and he knows this. It is | :03:01. | :03:09. | |
bizarre. It was Sadiq Khan sitting at home thinking he was the only | :03:10. | :03:17. | |
London mayor was not mentioned Hitler? The campaign has become | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
quite personal, it is about David Cameron's relationship with them, | :03:23. | :03:29. | |
and whether he has a hope of becoming leader. And as always like | :03:30. | :03:39. | |
to make things personal. It does not surprisingly in the slightest that | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
it is becoming more personal as the clock ticks towards the key date. On | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
Boris Johnson's comments, absolutely agree with Helen but no good can | :03:51. | :03:56. | |
come of a politician mentioning Hitler, but the reaction to the | :03:57. | :04:00. | |
remarks has been rather hysterical. If anyone bothers reading the | :04:01. | :04:06. | |
context... In the context. The Mac was an absolutely reasonable | :04:07. | :04:14. | |
statement of historical fact. We should not get to a point where | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
nobody can mention anything historical without it creating a | :04:19. | :04:23. | |
ridiculous action. I don't think it will be arise if it helps them win | :04:24. | :04:30. | |
votes. He fancies herself as an inherent to Winston Churchill, it | :04:31. | :04:38. | |
was in store. In your dreams, if the copy had come in and you had seen | :04:39. | :04:45. | |
the word logo might think you have a chance for a headline. Ever since | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
the collapse of the Roman Empire there have been attempts to unify | :04:52. | :05:03. | |
Europe. In a way, the Germans have that... There was a slight | :05:04. | :05:08. | |
difference in having endless pragmatic committees and ruling | :05:09. | :05:11. | |
tanks and to Poland. By different means is quite different. He was | :05:12. | :05:17. | |
arguing it was an attempt to unify Europe, it is bundled together | :05:18. | :05:23. | |
different ideas. It is a bit of a stretch. But overstretch! I think | :05:24. | :05:32. | |
there was a real danger... And what is the European Union, parable? | :05:33. | :05:42. | |
People support Brexit would say it was an attempt to build a European | :05:43. | :05:46. | |
super structure without a Democratic base. Democratic nations. It is | :05:47. | :05:54. | |
completely reasonable. Ireland begins to cover girl to make | :05:55. | :05:57. | |
important arguments about historical trends. Butler was Fromer remark. | :05:58. | :06:06. | |
He only mentioned Napoleon. Maybe he should have mentioned other leaders. | :06:07. | :06:25. | |
What do you make of the polls, showing neck and neck but they are | :06:26. | :06:31. | |
so far ahead in the economic argument, and that is why we will | :06:32. | :06:40. | |
win. They always hoped that. The evidence is that people put the | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
economy as the highest concern. What the Leave campaign is trying to do, | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
we've seen this from Nigel Farage, make the point that this is not just | :06:53. | :06:58. | |
about GDP, a few extra pounds in your pocket. The Leave campaign will | :06:59. | :07:06. | |
be hoping to highlight the question of what this means for society. | :07:07. | :07:13. | |
Now - would leaving the European Union be good | :07:14. | :07:15. | |
for the poor and disadvantaged in Britain? | :07:16. | :07:17. | |
That's the case that's being made by the former Work | :07:18. | :07:19. | |
and Pension Secretary Iain Duncan Smith. | :07:20. | :07:21. | |
I will be talking to him in a moment. | :07:22. | :07:23. | |
But first let's hear the warnings earlier this week about | :07:24. | :07:25. | |
the short-term impact of Brexit on the economy | :07:26. | :07:27. | |
from the Governor Bank of England, Mark Carney. | :07:28. | :07:35. | |
A vote to leave the European Union could have material economic effects | :07:36. | :07:38. | |
on the exchange rate, on demand, and on the economy's | :07:39. | :07:40. | |
So, this combination of influences on demand, | :07:41. | :07:46. | |
supply and the exchange rate could lead to a materially lower | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
path for growth and a notably higher path for inflation | :07:50. | :08:00. | |
than in the central projections set out in today's | :08:01. | :08:03. | |
Welcome back to the Sunday Politics. You've claimed that leaving the EU | :08:04. | :08:18. | |
would be good for the have nots but the Governor of the Bank of England | :08:19. | :08:26. | |
says it could lead to recession inflation, unemployment. That could | :08:27. | :08:29. | |
be bad. If all the predictions were right. Every single one of these | :08:30. | :08:34. | |
predictions is done by groups of people who've got most of their | :08:35. | :08:37. | |
predictions wrong. The point I would make to you, the Treasury prediction | :08:38. | :08:47. | |
and the IMS prediction all show that if Britain left the EU the economy | :08:48. | :08:52. | |
would grow. Their argument is it would not grow as fast but how you | :08:53. | :08:59. | |
can predict a 0.6% variation is beyond me. He was the point I really | :09:00. | :09:12. | |
believe about the bank, which is where I find this very back. I think | :09:13. | :09:18. | |
the bank, the governor has strayed into an expression of a simple, | :09:19. | :09:22. | |
personal prediction. I don't think it is actually possible for you to | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
say with any absolute accuracy that that will happen. In a sense, when | :09:28. | :09:32. | |
you listen to what he said, he started to nuance about the idea, he | :09:33. | :09:36. | |
was not seeing it actually would be comic he said he thought it could be | :09:37. | :09:40. | |
about that. Here is my point about the independence of the Bank of | :09:41. | :09:45. | |
England. Section ten of the 199 act makes it very clear that if he is to | :09:46. | :09:49. | |
talk about monetary policies, for which he has independence, he has to | :09:50. | :09:55. | |
be open, impartial and all things must be available. Last year, in | :09:56. | :10:02. | |
2015, when he spoke about the threat to the British economy, he made the | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
point which Mervyn King has made that the euro instability and the | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
crash has been very damaging to the British economy and will be even | :10:12. | :10:17. | |
more damaging as it goes on. Notice that when he came out on Thursday he | :10:18. | :10:20. | |
said nothing about the overall problems if we remained in. If | :10:21. | :10:29. | |
you had damned well better say you had damned well better say | :10:30. | :10:35. | |
and the threats of remaining are very clear. Mervyn King said there | :10:36. | :10:41. | |
is a crisis going on and he does not see an end to it. Why don't we hear | :10:42. | :10:49. | |
from him about that? Has he breached his obligations as Governor of the | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
Bank of England? I believe that he has. Should he resign? I think he | :10:56. | :11:05. | |
ought to be asked why he has not brought out both sides of the issue. | :11:06. | :11:12. | |
He used to work for Goldman Sachs. They are running through this, | :11:13. | :11:18. | |
funding the campaign, he has been very clear on it. You bring out | :11:19. | :11:27. | |
Goldman Sachs, lack of impartiality, you think he is not keeping his | :11:28. | :11:33. | |
remit, should he resign? I think he needs to answer about this one | :11:34. | :11:38. | |
simple charge. I would like to see the e-mail exchange over this issue, | :11:39. | :11:43. | |
the telephone conversation minutes, to see whether the Treasury has had | :11:44. | :11:49. | |
any involvement in this process whatsoever, what worries me slightly | :11:50. | :11:56. | |
about what is going on, the Bank of Scotland comes out on Thursday and | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
then suddenly the head of the IMF comes out on Friday with a similar | :12:02. | :12:04. | |
prediction. These are the same people that were telling us all that | :12:05. | :12:11. | |
the UK is too small to leave and too insignificant. Now we are so | :12:12. | :12:14. | |
insignificant that we are plunging the world into an economic crash. | :12:15. | :12:21. | |
Are we saying this was an accident? The governor did not call? Let me | :12:22. | :12:32. | |
ask you this, we know what made .. Are you saying they are colluding? I | :12:33. | :12:41. | |
wonder. Do you have any evidence? Suddenly on Wednesday and Thursday, | :12:42. | :12:44. | |
you have reports coming out, do you think they spoke to each other about | :12:45. | :12:48. | |
what they are doing? I wonder about that. The Chancellor is supporting | :12:49. | :12:55. | |
the governor, he then stands behind Christine Lagarde. We know that they | :12:56. | :13:06. | |
are players in this. The IMF always works with them. We know which major | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
economic authorities you don't like. The Treasury, the IMF, the Bank of | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
England, the OECD, which major economic authorities do you rate? | :13:16. | :13:19. | |
There have been some good reports out, there are a number of good | :13:20. | :13:25. | |
economists, lots of others from the city who have produced a report | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
which got very little coverage about the prospect... Any major economic | :13:31. | :13:35. | |
apologies? Yes but when they have come out with these reports they | :13:36. | :13:38. | |
have said the UK would continue to grow. Not as quickly. Not as | :13:39. | :13:44. | |
quickly. My point is if you're going to be balanced you need to | :13:45. | :13:50. | |
constantly reference that point and if they want to say that there is a | :13:51. | :13:53. | |
possibility this could lead to a problem he must also point out that | :13:54. | :13:59. | |
if we remain there is a possibility that we will be damaged by this You | :14:00. | :14:05. | |
made that .3 times. Let me ask you, can you name a major economic | :14:06. | :14:08. | |
authority on your side of the argument? I would not expect one to | :14:09. | :14:15. | |
be on our side. So you have none? It would be completely unusual for all | :14:16. | :14:22. | |
these institutions not to want to act the status quo. All these | :14:23. | :14:27. | |
institutions said there was no problem in 2007 and then one year | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
later we hit the buffers and the economy went down. None of them | :14:32. | :14:40. | |
predicted it. Including the Conservatives. None of them have | :14:41. | :14:41. | |
apologised for their failure. I want to show you this chart. This | :14:42. | :14:54. | |
shows our balance of payments, our deficit. It is the difference | :14:55. | :14:59. | |
between our exports and imports We import a lot more than we export in | :15:00. | :15:04. | |
goods and services. It has continually got worse under your | :15:05. | :15:09. | |
government. This deficit, which is multi-billion, is financed by | :15:10. | :15:13. | |
foreigners who buy our sterling as I to make up the gap. If Brexit create | :15:14. | :15:21. | |
a falling pound, why would the foreigners continue to pay for our | :15:22. | :15:27. | |
deficit? If the economy didn't perform, why would be, but if you | :15:28. | :15:30. | |
look at all those who predicted where we would be now, they all said | :15:31. | :15:35. | |
the threat of Brexit would actually bring the pound crashing. The pound | :15:36. | :15:39. | |
is now rising back up, close to where it was when we started this | :15:40. | :15:46. | |
campaign. 10% on last November. We had this deficit, it is financed by | :15:47. | :15:51. | |
foreigners. If they lose confidence in this country, confidence in | :15:52. | :15:57. | |
Stirling, how do we pay for this? We have to make sure we run the economy | :15:58. | :16:01. | |
in a way that they have confidence in it, we have to get some of those | :16:02. | :16:05. | |
regulations down, we have to make British industry more competitive. | :16:06. | :16:10. | |
We have to have a better plan to get industry working again. That would | :16:11. | :16:14. | |
be in the long term, this could be a short-term problem that could hit in | :16:15. | :16:20. | |
the summer. If it results leaving in an uncontrolled, plummeting | :16:21. | :16:24. | |
sterling, and the foreigners because of the uncertainty and sterling | :16:25. | :16:27. | |
going down are saying we are not going to continue to finance it the | :16:28. | :16:30. | |
bank would have to raise interest rates, wouldn't it? If that was the | :16:31. | :16:37. | |
circumstance, yes, but it is what you plan to do. Why are they | :16:38. | :16:40. | |
investing in what we are doing at the moment? They buy the bonds | :16:41. | :16:49. | |
because they believe the Government has a long-term plan to get the | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
deficit down and reduce borrowing. Therefore they believe the UK is a | :16:54. | :16:57. | |
good investment and running a trade surplus with the rest of the world. | :16:58. | :17:04. | |
We are running a huge deficit. Yes, but we are running a trade surplus. | :17:05. | :17:10. | |
If they need to finance this deficit, and it is not the budget | :17:11. | :17:15. | |
deficit, it is how the foreigners by our assets in order to help us run | :17:16. | :17:22. | |
this deficit. If interest rate did rise, it follows that mortgage rates | :17:23. | :17:27. | |
could rise substantially. Yes but the alternative could be the same, | :17:28. | :17:30. | |
in other words if they believe what we are doing is right for the | :17:31. | :17:36. | |
economy they are prepared to back it, which means you wouldn't have | :17:37. | :17:40. | |
rising interest rates. All of this is speculation because we don't | :17:41. | :17:45. | |
know. Boris Johnson has admitted that after Brexit there would be a | :17:46. | :17:53. | |
Nike tick, that he believes the economy would take a hit, but it | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
would recover strongly. Do you believe that? Possibly but this is | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
speculation about something nobody knows. There has been speculation | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
about forecast in these economies, most of them are wrong because | :18:08. | :18:12. | |
people are unable to tell us about what they think about our prospects | :18:13. | :18:17. | |
afterwards. If we vote to leave we are already able to show we can get | :18:18. | :18:21. | |
our money back in due course and we are able to start planning our own | :18:22. | :18:25. | |
economy so we are able to get the kind of deals we need. That shows | :18:26. | :18:31. | |
you have a plan that works. You could offer short-term crisis in the | :18:32. | :18:36. | |
interim, couldn't you? They are worried whether their mortgage will | :18:37. | :18:40. | |
have risen by August or September of this year. If that were to happen | :18:41. | :18:48. | |
but the word is if. This is pure speculation. The point I am making | :18:49. | :18:52. | |
is that the reality is it may go in the opposite direction. Nobody can | :18:53. | :18:59. | |
say that. The EU guarantees a number of social protections for workers, | :19:00. | :19:03. | |
covering things like equal pay, working time, maternity pay. Can you | :19:04. | :19:08. | |
pledged to fight to maintain all of these protections if we leave? All | :19:09. | :19:14. | |
of these were accepted by the Conservative government and I | :19:15. | :19:17. | |
believe strongly then need to be protections for workers. All of | :19:18. | :19:20. | |
these things in a democracy are debated but the British government | :19:21. | :19:26. | |
have actually themselves instituted protections for workers. So would | :19:27. | :19:31. | |
you fight to keep the protections they currently have under EU | :19:32. | :19:39. | |
guarantees? As it stands, yes. Why should people trust you because you | :19:40. | :19:43. | |
opposed the Web Time directive in 1996, and voted against the minimum | :19:44. | :19:48. | |
wage in 1997. Why would they have not looked to you for this social | :19:49. | :19:54. | |
protection? Because rather than forecast ahead, look back at what | :19:55. | :20:00. | |
has happened to them. The immigration has damaged them. I m | :20:01. | :20:04. | |
simply saying what has happened therefore my argument has been, and | :20:05. | :20:08. | |
you have known that over a long time, over nine years I have argued | :20:09. | :20:12. | |
this process has been most damaging to the people at the low skilled | :20:13. | :20:18. | |
end. That is the migration issue, it may well be true. I'm asking you why | :20:19. | :20:25. | |
should people trust you on these EU social protections that they would | :20:26. | :20:28. | |
remain if we came out since you voted against them when they were | :20:29. | :20:34. | |
being proposed? The working Time directive gave little or no | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
flexibility at the time. It has been in place and we had to work with it. | :20:39. | :20:44. | |
You protect the workforce but you make sure the competition that they | :20:45. | :20:48. | |
face in terms of their jobs is actually fair competition, not | :20:49. | :20:53. | |
unfair competition. What has happened, as you saw on Thursday | :20:54. | :20:57. | |
with the national insurance numbers, is a very high proportion of people | :20:58. | :21:01. | |
coming in in under 52 weeks here who have no commitment to the UK often | :21:02. | :21:07. | |
staying in bed sits, compete on the low salary end of life. Is the | :21:08. | :21:14. | |
working Time directive, which guarantees the hours people work in | :21:15. | :21:19. | |
a week and proper breaks, is that safe after Brexit or not? UK law | :21:20. | :21:25. | |
would enshrine what we think is best for protection of workforce and that | :21:26. | :21:29. | |
is right. A democratic government will decide on what it thinks is | :21:30. | :21:34. | |
right. That is possible for Labour or Conservative. I believe it is | :21:35. | :21:38. | |
right to have it, the question is how flexible... People watching this | :21:39. | :21:45. | |
will not be reassured by this. I will stick to the agreements we | :21:46. | :21:50. | |
have. You point your fist in the Commons when the Chancellor | :21:51. | :21:56. | |
announced the new national living wage, now you say it is a magnet for | :21:57. | :22:02. | |
migrants, what changed? I said it is a good people for people wanting to | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
come and work here because they will get a higher wage. I am wholly in | :22:08. | :22:11. | |
favour of a rise to the minimum wage because I believe that over time | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
what happens to businesses is they have got around paying lower | :22:16. | :22:21. | |
wages... Would you still be in favour of it if we stayed in the EU? | :22:22. | :22:28. | |
Yes, because it is the best way you can drive the wages up but if we | :22:29. | :22:33. | |
stay in the EU it will become a magnet for people to come in here | :22:34. | :22:37. | |
and it will lead to huge problems. The point I made on Tuesday this | :22:38. | :22:41. | |
week was that have we have seen already lots of people from the EU | :22:42. | :22:48. | |
tend to come in. The vast majority of people coming from the European | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
Union into the UK, they tend to be low skills, they tend to be ones | :22:53. | :22:56. | |
taking a high proportion of those low skilled jobs. They have taken | :22:57. | :23:01. | |
them at lesser salary and driven it down. The overall average wage will | :23:02. | :23:06. | |
still be low for those on low skills. You have brought up | :23:07. | :23:11. | |
migration several times in this interview, isn't the blunt truth, | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
because I was asking about the economics, you are losing the | :23:17. | :23:19. | |
economic arguments, the polls show that, you are more dependent on | :23:20. | :23:24. | |
scaring people. John Major says What do you say? Rubbish. Very | :23:25. | :23:44. | |
simple, he is talking nonsense. He said only a few years ago that there | :23:45. | :23:49. | |
was a real issue over immigration. The Government had a target to get | :23:50. | :23:54. | |
tens of thousands, the limit down to tens of thousands, we are not | :23:55. | :23:58. | |
achieving that. We talked about it in the run-up to the election. The | :23:59. | :24:02. | |
Prime Minister himself made a strong commitment that we would ensure our | :24:03. | :24:06. | |
borders were protected against people coming to be here so it is | :24:07. | :24:10. | |
nonsense because we are not raising this is an issue because we are | :24:11. | :24:14. | |
trying to win the referendum. Most people in the country believes there | :24:15. | :24:19. | |
is an issue about the open border with the European Union. Why is it | :24:20. | :24:30. | |
demagoguery, why is it extremism to speak for British people who feel | :24:31. | :24:32. | |
like their views are being tossed aside? If you don't do it, the | :24:33. | :24:35. | |
extreme parties get onto it. Was it wise Boris Johnson to compare the | :24:36. | :24:42. | |
EU's ambitions? I thought it was a good article because he spoke about | :24:43. | :24:49. | |
this nonsensical... Was it wise to compare it with Hitler? Do you think | :24:50. | :24:56. | |
Hitler's efforts to unify Europe are the same as the European Union's | :24:57. | :25:01. | |
efforts? I think the whole process of trying to drive Europe together | :25:02. | :25:05. | |
by force or democracy ultimately makes problems. Isn't this | :25:06. | :25:11. | |
referendum getting vaguely absurd? We have the Prime Minister dangling | :25:12. | :25:16. | |
the thought of world War three if we leave, and on your side we have | :25:17. | :25:20. | |
Boris Johnson saying Hitler and the European Union are on the same | :25:21. | :25:24. | |
script. It is both nonsense and you know that. All he is doing in the | :25:25. | :25:29. | |
interview is talking about the trend towards the idea, and he's using | :25:30. | :25:39. | |
historical parallels to explain it. You go through this great idea that | :25:40. | :25:44. | |
somehow there is a thing called greater Europe. Whether or not you | :25:45. | :25:48. | |
like the linguistics of this, my point remains the same. If you vote | :25:49. | :25:55. | |
to remain on the 23rd, you are voting, the 12 residents said it | :25:56. | :26:00. | |
clear that they intend to deepen... The five presidents. The five | :26:01. | :26:10. | |
presidents rather. David Cameron and George Osborne won't debate other | :26:11. | :26:14. | |
Tory ministers during the referendum, are they concerned about | :26:15. | :26:19. | |
party unity or just running scared? You will have to ask them. My view | :26:20. | :26:24. | |
about it is that it is right to have a proper debate and by not opening | :26:25. | :26:28. | |
that debate the British public will be left to wonder why they were not | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
allowed to see the two opposing sides of the argument from the | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
leading figures. You would debate the Prime Minister? Yes, we need to | :26:37. | :26:42. | |
get these things straight face-to-face. After all, if this | :26:43. | :26:46. | |
were an election would be Remain side be allowed to say we won't | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
debate Ed Miliband fustian might know, they cannot do that. There are | :26:52. | :26:57. | |
two side to this argument, if two sides have to debate it that is | :26:58. | :27:03. | |
right and proper. It should be down to impartiality that we have two | :27:04. | :27:09. | |
sides, the two sets of leaders. Iain Duncan Smith, thank you. | :27:10. | :27:13. | |
Now, the Commons are elected, the House of Lords are not | :27:14. | :27:15. | |
and is supposed to be a "revising chamber". | :27:16. | :27:17. | |
But have their lord and ladyships been overstepping the mark? | :27:18. | :27:20. | |
Over the the past year, they've inflicted 60 defeats | :27:21. | :27:22. | |
on a Government that's now poised to clip the Lord's wings - | :27:23. | :27:25. | |
reducing their power to block changes in the law. | :27:26. | :27:27. | |
But in an exclusive interview before she steps down as the speaker | :27:28. | :27:30. | |
of the House of Lords in the summer, Baroness D'Souza has told us | :27:31. | :27:33. | |
that the powers of the Lords should not be curtailed. | :27:34. | :27:35. | |
It's very obvious why they are called the crossbenchers, | :27:36. | :27:44. | |
My guide knows this place pretty well, how it works, who's who. | :27:45. | :27:51. | |
Since 2011, she's been Lord Speaker, a role which involves | :27:52. | :27:53. | |
overseeing proceedings here, representing the Lords at home | :27:54. | :27:55. | |
and abroad, and sitting on a sack of wool. | :27:56. | :28:01. | |
But the business in here over which Baroness D'Souza presides has | :28:02. | :28:08. | |
come under increasing criticism from the Government. | :28:09. | :28:12. | |
247 members of the House of Lords sit as Conservatives peers, | :28:13. | :28:14. | |
making the governing party a significant minority of the 8 7 | :28:15. | :28:17. | |
members eligible to take part in the Upper House. | :28:18. | :28:24. | |
The Government has faced 60 defeats in the House of Lords in the most | :28:25. | :28:27. | |
The rate of defeats this time round is more than twice that | :28:28. | :28:32. | |
Then, the Government was defeated in less than a quarter | :28:33. | :28:38. | |
of votes compared to more than half in the present one. | :28:39. | :28:42. | |
Now there's a sense that the Lords are too rebellious, they have been | :28:43. | :28:45. | |
too rebellious over the last few years and essentially the Lords | :28:46. | :28:48. | |
You know, all governments and all parliamentarians, | :28:49. | :28:52. | |
or at least House of Commons, always feel that the House of Lords | :28:53. | :28:58. | |
is a place that thwarts them in one way or another. | :28:59. | :29:01. | |
And they're right, they do, but that is in the nature | :29:02. | :29:06. | |
They have all the power and rightly so. | :29:07. | :29:15. | |
I still think it's right that the Lords should be free | :29:16. | :29:17. | |
to scrutinise and to question and to hold the Government | :29:18. | :29:21. | |
to account, and to send back legislation which it feels is not | :29:22. | :29:24. | |
adequate, either in terms of its clarity or because perhaps it | :29:25. | :29:30. | |
infringes from time to time individual liberties | :29:31. | :29:32. | |
And that's exactly what happened last October. | :29:33. | :29:38. | |
The House of Lords effectively blocked the Government's proposed | :29:39. | :29:41. | |
changes to tax credits, a massive blow to George | :29:42. | :29:44. | |
Unelected Labour and Liberal Lords have voted down a matter passed | :29:45. | :29:51. | |
by the elected House of Commons that raises constitutional issues | :29:52. | :29:54. | |
and David Cameron and I are clear they will need to be dealt with | :29:55. | :29:58. | |
The way they dealt with it was to ask Lord Strathclyde | :29:59. | :30:00. | |
He concluded peers should lose their absolute veto over | :30:01. | :30:04. | |
detailed laws known as secondary legislation, and instead be allowed | :30:05. | :30:09. | |
only to send it back to the Commons to think again. | :30:10. | :30:12. | |
There's going to be a lively debate about this in the House of Lords | :30:13. | :30:16. | |
and I think that there will be a lot of views expressed and obviously | :30:17. | :30:19. | |
you would expect the Lords to want to retain their power | :30:20. | :30:22. | |
to scrutinise their power, their privilege. | :30:23. | :30:26. | |
If you start curtailing or eroding or limiting the power | :30:27. | :30:31. | |
of the Lords to do its job, there is a question | :30:32. | :30:34. | |
There is another question, too, over the sheer number | :30:35. | :30:44. | |
Baroness D'Souza told me she would be pushing for a Lords | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
motion in the new session, she says the House of Lords should | :30:49. | :30:51. | |
not be larger than the Commons, suggesting the number of peers | :30:52. | :30:53. | |
At least 20% of them should be independents or crossbenchers, | :30:54. | :30:58. | |
and no one party should have a political majority. | :30:59. | :31:01. | |
She said all of that can be achieved by 2020. | :31:02. | :31:04. | |
So, the size is making it inefficient? | :31:05. | :31:06. | |
It does have an impact unfortunately on the role of the House of Lords | :31:07. | :31:16. | |
in holding the Government to account. | :31:17. | :31:19. | |
It's very difficult if you're limited to sort of say, | :31:20. | :31:22. | |
in timed debates, a minute or two minutes to speak, to develop | :31:23. | :31:25. | |
a sustained argument which will convince your fellow | :31:26. | :31:27. | |
peers but also the Government of what it is you are | :31:28. | :31:29. | |
The traditional pomp and ceremony of the Lords is well known | :31:30. | :31:33. | |
but its relationship with the Commons and exactly | :31:34. | :31:35. | |
what role it can play in the future is far more uncertain. | :31:36. | :31:42. | |
And the man who was charged by the Government to review | :31:43. | :31:45. | |
the Lord's powers, Tam Strathclyde, joins us now from Oxfordshire. | :31:46. | :31:49. | |
Welcome to the programme. Nice to see the sun is shining rate you are. | :31:50. | :31:58. | |
We've just heard, what would be the point of the Lloyds if the powers | :31:59. | :32:05. | |
are watered down as your review proposes. What do you say to her? | :32:06. | :32:12. | |
There is no suggestion and no recommendation by anybody in | :32:13. | :32:14. | |
government to fundamentally change the powers of the House of Lords. I | :32:15. | :32:22. | |
made the most mild and humble recommendation about process, where | :32:23. | :32:28. | |
frankly most of us had understood that the customs and conventions | :32:29. | :32:35. | |
that had been built up would stick. Last October, they broke down, as a | :32:36. | :32:39. | |
result there is no consensus and agreement on what those powers could | :32:40. | :32:49. | |
be. I propose a new power to be able to reject and ask. What is | :32:50. | :32:58. | |
interesting is every school child knows that the purpose of the House | :32:59. | :33:06. | |
of Lords is to scrutinise but not to block. What happened was the House | :33:07. | :33:13. | |
of Lords using a veto and given it is unelected, I don't think that | :33:14. | :33:19. | |
power should ever be used. Is the government going to implement your | :33:20. | :33:23. | |
recommendations? Since I reported before Christmas there have been | :33:24. | :33:29. | |
four further reports, three in the House of Lords and one in the House | :33:30. | :33:35. | |
of Commons, commenting on this. I think what the government will want | :33:36. | :33:39. | |
to do is look carefully at these reports before responding. I don't | :33:40. | :33:44. | |
think there needs to be a rush to legislation, and there may well be | :33:45. | :33:48. | |
an attempt to get an agreement between the parties in the House of | :33:49. | :33:52. | |
Lords, between the two Houses of Parliament. But if that consensus | :33:53. | :33:58. | |
cannot be reached, I think the government will have no option but | :33:59. | :34:05. | |
to legislate on this matter. Your government has had 60 defeats at the | :34:06. | :34:09. | |
hands of the Lords. You wonder whether the conservative tune has | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
changed because it was Tory peers inflicting defeat on Labour | :34:14. | :34:17. | |
governments. Now you are getting a taste of your own historic medicine, | :34:18. | :34:23. | |
you just don't like it. I was Leader of the Opposition for most of those | :34:24. | :34:34. | |
years, particularly after the end of the last century. We did defeat the | :34:35. | :34:47. | |
government regularly on primary legislation, not secondary | :34:48. | :34:48. | |
legislation. What was interesting in your package is the government has | :34:49. | :34:54. | |
been defeated in the House of Lords many more times than it did in the | :34:55. | :34:59. | |
first Parliament of Tony Blair's government. Over half of all the | :35:00. | :35:04. | |
votes in the House of Lords are defeated. This is not revision and | :35:05. | :35:08. | |
scrutiny, this is not complementing the work of the House of Commons, | :35:09. | :35:13. | |
this is an aggressive political statement why the other political | :35:14. | :35:19. | |
parties. Is it really? This is a government which increasingly brings | :35:20. | :35:21. | |
forward ill thought out ideas which it has not planned in advance, not | :35:22. | :35:28. | |
without consultation, and is forced into U-turns. There has been a | :35:29. | :35:33. | |
series of them. That is why you need a second chamber, to do proper | :35:34. | :35:40. | |
scrutiny. I am the greatest defender of the second chamber and indeed, a | :35:41. | :35:45. | |
Conservative Party that fully understands the central tenets of | :35:46. | :35:48. | |
the Constitution, understands the central tenets of | :35:49. | :35:53. | |
between the houses, but what we ve seen in the last 12 months, and | :35:54. | :35:59. | |
remember, this is the first 12 months of a new conservative | :36:00. | :36:01. | |
administration, people who were elected to government, scarcely one | :36:02. | :36:08. | |
year ago, and what we've seen in the House of Lords are blocking tactics, | :36:09. | :36:13. | |
using vetoes rather than working with the House of Commons in order | :36:14. | :36:18. | |
to improve that legislation which you rightly criticise. Are you a | :36:19. | :36:24. | |
supporter of the way that governments have bloated the House | :36:25. | :36:27. | |
of Lords? There are over 800 active peers. The US Senate needs 100 and | :36:28. | :36:34. | |
it has real power. You've not got much power and those over 800 of | :36:35. | :36:42. | |
you. Is that sensible? When Mr Blair and his friends throughout the | :36:43. | :36:46. | |
hereditary peers in the 1990s I did argue that there was an inevitable | :36:47. | :36:50. | |
consequence that prime ministers would try to increase their own | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
numbers in the house. What's interesting about Mr Cameron is he | :36:56. | :37:04. | |
has created far more Labour peers. Wide of the need to be 800 of you? | :37:05. | :37:11. | |
You don't. -- why does there need to be 800. But those who want to reduce | :37:12. | :37:19. | |
it to 500 should say how they plan to do that. I would prefer either | :37:20. | :37:23. | |
people to be involved in the decision and they should be directly | :37:24. | :37:25. | |
elected. Thank you for joining us. It's just gone 11.35, | :37:26. | :37:28. | |
you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers | :37:29. | :37:30. | |
in Scotland who leave us now First though, the Sunday | :37:31. | :37:33. | |
Politics where you are. A bit later, first week | :37:34. | :37:48. | |
in the job for Sadiq Khan - Joining me for the duration | :37:49. | :37:52. | |
of the show, James Brokenshire, Conservative MP for Old Bexley | :37:53. | :37:56. | |
and Sidcup, and Dawn Butler, With less than six weeks to go | :37:57. | :37:59. | |
until the EU referendum, former Work and Pensions Secretary | :38:00. | :38:07. | |
Iain Duncan Smith has been arguing this week that immigration had | :38:08. | :38:09. | |
an adverse effect on the employment and housing in the UK generally | :38:10. | :38:12. | |
but on London in particular. The construction of the Olympic Park | :38:13. | :38:16. | |
was a powerful illustration of the way in which those who had | :38:17. | :38:19. | |
come in, those migrants, undercut UK workers | :38:20. | :38:22. | |
through their willingness to endure Visiting job centres, | :38:23. | :38:30. | |
as I did as the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions in east London | :38:31. | :38:33. | |
which is where my constituency was in the time, I met both skilled | :38:34. | :38:36. | |
and unskilled workers who struggled When I asked why, they said people | :38:37. | :38:39. | |
from Eastern Europe, often living in bedsits in various | :38:40. | :38:43. | |
parts of his London without UK housing and family costs | :38:44. | :38:47. | |
that they did, hugely underbid Another big negative economic effect | :38:48. | :38:50. | |
of the level of immigration that British people have never | :38:51. | :39:01. | |
voted for and do not want Young people are the biggest losers | :39:02. | :39:03. | |
from this, they are being forced to pay an ever-larger share | :39:04. | :39:10. | |
of their income on accommodation and suffering longer commutes | :39:11. | :39:13. | |
and often have to move far away The fact is that we need to build | :39:14. | :39:15. | |
around 240 houses every day for the next 20 years just to be | :39:16. | :39:20. | |
able to cope with the increased Joining me now is Andrew Rosindell, | :39:21. | :39:23. | |
the Conservative MP for Romford and a supporter | :39:24. | :39:28. | |
of the Leave campaign. Surely one of the crucial things | :39:29. | :39:39. | |
about the Olympics was getting costs down. You're prepared to say that | :39:40. | :39:42. | |
you would see costs rising higher if it meant recruiting indigenous | :39:43. | :39:49. | |
London workers? I think there should be competition but there should be | :39:50. | :39:52. | |
levelling playing field and at the moment it is not fair because people | :39:53. | :39:55. | |
in the United Kingdom will expect to be paid higher wages, have better | :39:56. | :40:00. | |
family conditions. Unfortunately a lot of the unskilled workers coming | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
from the EU are prepared to live in conditions that most of our | :40:06. | :40:07. | |
constituents would not be prepared to do. It is not fair and is causing | :40:08. | :40:14. | |
depression in the wages across London, it means house prices are | :40:15. | :40:18. | |
rising dramatically so that our constituents are struggling to be | :40:19. | :40:22. | |
able to live in London and uncontrolled immigration is simply | :40:23. | :40:27. | |
not a sensible policy. As long as we are in the EU it will be | :40:28. | :40:31. | |
uncontrolled immigration. I don t think the British people want that. | :40:32. | :40:39. | |
On that point of the Olympics, delivered with 40% foreign workers | :40:40. | :40:45. | |
doing it. We look back on the Olympics as an incredible time for | :40:46. | :40:48. | |
our country and capital city and when we look at the contracts that | :40:49. | :40:54. | |
were awarded, the vast majority to British registered companies, and a | :40:55. | :41:02. | |
fifth of the workers came from local boroughs, ensuring that local people | :41:03. | :41:06. | |
could be employed on the Olympic Park. Looking at what is there, it | :41:07. | :41:10. | |
is important to underline in the context of the EU debates, many | :41:11. | :41:18. | |
people are saying this is the solution. Immigration is a very | :41:19. | :41:22. | |
complex theme, dealing with skills, making sure we have the right skills | :41:23. | :41:28. | |
for our economy, the right skills for people within the capital. As | :41:29. | :41:32. | |
well as putting those controls on, but it is why we are outside of the | :41:33. | :41:37. | |
Schengen Erie and why we have the best of both worlds and how voting | :41:38. | :41:42. | |
out of the EU is at leap in the dark. Local Londoners were excluded | :41:43. | :41:52. | |
because they were undercut. I am quite disappointed by Iain Duncan | :41:53. | :41:58. | |
Smith's speech. A few weeks ago he was crying because of the damage he | :41:59. | :42:01. | |
had done in regards of the housing industry. You cannot blame Brussels | :42:02. | :42:05. | |
for the crisis in the housing industry when he was crying a few | :42:06. | :42:12. | |
weeks ago because he knows the Conservative housing policy was | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
responsible for that. I think the procurement approach could have been | :42:18. | :42:23. | |
better but that was the conservative mayor who had the agenda to do that. | :42:24. | :42:32. | |
It started off with 3000 construction workers. That | :42:33. | :42:36. | |
increased. We did not have enough people trained up to do the work. | :42:37. | :42:49. | |
That is something the conservative government should have acknowledged, | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
and we could have had more people prepared and able to do the job | :42:54. | :43:01. | |
There were not skills here. Why should we discriminate against the | :43:02. | :43:04. | |
Commonwealth countries and the wider world? I am passionate about the | :43:05. | :43:11. | |
Caribbean community. It was amazing, the amount of people from | :43:12. | :43:13. | |
Commonwealth countries who feel this mechanism is unfair to countries | :43:14. | :43:20. | |
with whom we have had historical relations. We are we going to put | :43:21. | :43:27. | |
the city the size of Newcastle every year in the UK? We will have another | :43:28. | :43:33. | |
3 million in the next five years. There is no legitimacy for | :43:34. | :43:38. | |
uncontrolled immigration and it is time the government realised the | :43:39. | :43:44. | |
only way to solve this is to control our borders. We do control our | :43:45. | :43:49. | |
borders, we have passport controls other European countries don't have | :43:50. | :43:53. | |
because we are out of Schengen. Clearly that access to the single | :43:54. | :44:02. | |
market of 500 million people worth ?500 billion which supports around 3 | :44:03. | :44:06. | |
million jobs across the UK is absolutely essential. The suggestion | :44:07. | :44:13. | |
that we would still be able to access that, it is why the pro | :44:14. | :44:19. | |
Minister is right to deal with the pool factors. I don't think the | :44:20. | :44:35. | |
skier programme and tactics you are using is good for the EU debate If | :44:36. | :44:42. | |
you take one aspect of construction, the EU serves an important role | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
I've got a church being built. If you take into consideration the | :44:48. | :44:51. | |
health and save the aspect, nobody died whilst building the Olympic | :44:52. | :44:55. | |
Stadium because we have good health and see the regulations and that | :44:56. | :44:56. | |
comes from the EU. It is British money we give to the | :44:57. | :45:08. | |
EU and they give some back. We can make our own laws on health and | :45:09. | :45:12. | |
safety, but why is it that you think a Jamaican and should be treated | :45:13. | :45:16. | |
second-class compared to someone from Latvia? I'm not going to go | :45:17. | :45:20. | |
down that road because it is pathetic. Surely we should not | :45:21. | :45:26. | |
discriminate in terms of what type of immigration we have, we should | :45:27. | :45:30. | |
treat everyone fairly. Do you think the public will feel concerned about | :45:31. | :45:34. | |
the figures and the sense of the Government underestimating the | :45:35. | :45:37. | |
impact of migration when we see that... Is it 1.2 million over four | :45:38. | :45:44. | |
years being factored out of the equation, people who have national | :45:45. | :45:47. | |
insurance numbers but they are not here for more than 12 months so they | :45:48. | :45:52. | |
are not including the figures, so we have grossly underestimated the | :45:53. | :46:03. | |
impact of migration. The Office of National Statistics have said | :46:04. | :46:11. | |
something different. If you look at it short-term, people come and go, | :46:12. | :46:15. | |
so to aggregate it up is the wrong approach. Should we can't tourist or | :46:16. | :46:22. | |
visitors because they come to the UK? That is why the ONS were very | :46:23. | :46:31. | |
clear. I said to James, in our manifesto we promised to control | :46:32. | :46:34. | |
immigration, we are failing to do that, and we will only do it if we | :46:35. | :46:38. | |
leave the European Union and take back control of our borders. We will | :46:39. | :46:44. | |
give him the last word because he is going now and you are here later, | :46:45. | :46:46. | |
and only for that reason! So, lauded around the world, | :46:47. | :46:49. | |
at the heart of a spat with the Republican frontrunner | :46:50. | :46:51. | |
for President, and launching a new All in a week's work | :46:52. | :46:54. | |
for the new mayor, Sadiq Khan. And the signs are he doesn't | :46:55. | :46:58. | |
want to hang about, Monday morning and the first | :46:59. | :47:00. | |
day in the office for My wife has hayfever | :47:01. | :47:03. | |
and she's currently suffering because of the flowers we have | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
received over the last weekend! Can I just say look, | :47:09. | :47:12. | |
can people please stop sending the lovely sweets | :47:13. | :47:15. | |
they have been sending. The flowers are fantastic | :47:16. | :47:17. | |
but please stop. My wife cannot breathe | :47:18. | :47:19. | |
in the house any more! It's been great, the | :47:20. | :47:21. | |
response has been great. There was more of it to come | :47:22. | :47:24. | |
at Prime Minister's Questions. Last week London elected | :47:25. | :47:26. | |
a new Mayor... I heard the Prime Minister on two | :47:27. | :47:28. | |
occasions this afternoon congratulate the new Mayor | :47:29. | :47:37. | |
of London, Sadiq Khan, and I would like to | :47:38. | :47:39. | |
repeat that myself. It was almost as if the only person | :47:40. | :47:42. | |
who didn't want to lavish praise was his own party leader, | :47:43. | :47:45. | |
Jeremy Corbyn, who said precisely nothing about the fact the party | :47:46. | :47:49. | |
he leads had just won the capital. Since we often celebrate great | :47:50. | :47:54. | |
national events in this House, would the Prime Minister join me | :47:55. | :47:59. | |
in wishing Sir David Attenborough The two had managed this photocall, | :48:00. | :48:02. | |
and had what was called And according to Momentum, | :48:03. | :48:10. | |
the Corbyn-affiliated part of the Labour Party, | :48:11. | :48:15. | |
it is all a fuss about nothing. I think the way this has been | :48:16. | :48:20. | |
presented in the media has been a deliberate attempt to create | :48:21. | :48:23. | |
division or supposed division between those two individuals | :48:24. | :48:25. | |
and generally create divisions I just saw a clip on the news | :48:26. | :48:29. | |
yesterday of their meeting but it Meanwhile the new Mayor was making | :48:30. | :48:36. | |
a splash on the world stage, a visit from the Socialist mayor | :48:37. | :48:42. | |
of Paris, whose city is still recovering from last | :48:43. | :48:44. | |
year's terrorist attacks. She was keen to associate | :48:45. | :48:46. | |
with London's new Muslim Mayor, and also to attack | :48:47. | :48:49. | |
the politics of Donald Trump. We are in the life, | :48:50. | :48:54. | |
we are in our mission, And London's Mayor got involved | :48:55. | :49:00. | |
as well, saying the man almost certain to be the Republican | :49:01. | :49:10. | |
candidate for US president this year was ignorant about Islam, | :49:11. | :49:12. | |
and that, as a Muslim, Sadiq Khan might have to travel | :49:13. | :49:15. | |
to America before Mr Trump got a chance to implement a mooted ban | :49:16. | :49:20. | |
on Muslims entering the country But in response to Sadiq Khan's | :49:21. | :49:24. | |
comments, Mr Trump appeared This week's edition | :49:25. | :49:27. | |
of the left-leaning New Statesman magazine has paid tribute | :49:28. | :49:39. | |
on its cover with a David-like Mr Khan defeating a Goliath-like Trump | :49:40. | :49:46. | |
figure but there was less glamorous After a meeting with Transport | :49:47. | :49:49. | |
for London, he announced his plans for what's being called the Hopper, | :49:50. | :49:52. | |
a new bus fare which means you can get on and off as many routes | :49:53. | :49:56. | |
as you like in a one-hour period. At the moment you have to pay | :49:57. | :49:59. | |
?1.50 for each journey. I think the one-hour Hopper fare | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
is a sensible thing to do. It's frankly slightly amazing | :50:05. | :50:07. | |
it didn't exist. It tells you something | :50:08. | :50:11. | |
about inflexibility perhaps in TfL that they hadn't come up | :50:12. | :50:13. | |
with such an idea themselves. On airports, there was also | :50:14. | :50:23. | |
a reiteration of Sadiq Khan's I'm quite clear, I don't | :50:24. | :50:25. | |
want to close down Heathrow Airport. Expanding City Airport though seemed | :50:26. | :50:33. | |
to move a step closer, after City Hall removed | :50:34. | :50:38. | |
its opposition to the sale of public Green campaigners said it | :50:39. | :50:41. | |
made a bit of a mockery of his previous claim to want to be | :50:42. | :50:44. | |
the greenest mayor ever. Just take a step back, you will have | :50:45. | :50:47. | |
time for photos, thank you. But even his detractors | :50:48. | :50:50. | |
would probably admit that Sadiq Khan's first week as Mayor | :50:51. | :50:52. | |
of London has been nothing It certainly has. David Attenborough | :50:53. | :51:08. | |
got the nod from Jeremy Corbyn but not Sadiq Khan. I must say, I was | :51:09. | :51:16. | |
sitting there thinking, oh he didn't mention it, but I can tell you just | :51:17. | :51:22. | |
between you and I that it was on his notes but he obviously... He | :51:23. | :51:27. | |
obviously just got so caught up in the moment! Even his spokesman | :51:28. | :51:32. | |
didn't claim that he meant to say that afterwards! The thing is that | :51:33. | :51:40. | |
isn't the big story, the big story is Sadiq Khan basically had Zac | :51:41. | :51:45. | |
Goldsmith for breakfast and Donald Trump for dinner. It has been | :51:46. | :51:51. | |
incredible. Our Labour really saying or thinking that he may have altered | :51:52. | :51:58. | |
Donald Trump's policies? Everybody is saying it! I'm sure Hillary | :51:59. | :52:01. | |
Clinton is sending him a thank you sweet. If Hillary Clinton had done | :52:02. | :52:07. | |
that, I'm just wondering if Donald Trump would have got round to saying | :52:08. | :52:12. | |
it anyway at this stage in the cycle. Do you think the mayor of | :52:13. | :52:17. | |
capital city like London would be enough to make a Republican | :52:18. | :52:20. | |
candidate potentially change their policy? I think Sadiq Khan has been | :52:21. | :52:27. | |
very clear in setting out that clear vision for London over the course of | :52:28. | :52:31. | |
the last few days and I pay tribute to him. In those first few days as | :52:32. | :52:37. | |
the mayor, maybe he has pointed the finger at Donald Trump and clearly | :52:38. | :52:42. | |
Donald Trump's previous comments were divisive and wrong. Who knows | :52:43. | :52:47. | |
with Donald Trump. Using the first name Sadiq already. The message will | :52:48. | :52:58. | |
go out, do not talk about him with his first name! But what is your | :52:59. | :53:01. | |
overall impression of his first week? Equally with my perspective | :53:02. | :53:07. | |
from the Home Office seeing Sadiq Khan looking at keeping the city | :53:08. | :53:20. | |
safe... Does he make London less safe? Then if it had been a | :53:21. | :53:28. | |
Conservative? Sadiq Khan has responded to the different | :53:29. | :53:32. | |
questions, he has a clear mandate. We want to work together on | :53:33. | :53:36. | |
delivering that safety and security. There is investment going into | :53:37. | :53:40. | |
policing, firearms policing to guard against some of these attacks that | :53:41. | :53:45. | |
obviously we are very focused to prevent. Therefore it is now working | :53:46. | :53:50. | |
with America London with this agenda in the national interest and that is | :53:51. | :53:54. | |
what we will be doing. Sound good to you? I do think the dog whistle | :53:55. | :54:01. | |
campaign that Zac Goldsmith ran was appalling. The fact that Donald | :54:02. | :54:06. | |
Trump has had to backtrack and David Cameron has apologised... Why don't | :54:07. | :54:12. | |
we look forward now, because everyone has been apologising, how | :54:13. | :54:15. | |
about thinking about what it will be like going forward. We do have to | :54:16. | :54:21. | |
look at that but you also have to acknowledge when you have done | :54:22. | :54:23. | |
something wrong and I don't think they have acknowledged that. Just a | :54:24. | :54:30. | |
general point, were you happy with the way the Conservative campaign | :54:31. | :54:35. | |
was run? It is important we asked a number of questions of Sadiq Khan in | :54:36. | :54:39. | |
his role as Mayor of London, he answered those and got the mandate | :54:40. | :54:44. | |
from the electorate. Our focus now is on working with him. I'm | :54:45. | :54:49. | |
interested in discussing things like transport, how we look at our | :54:50. | :54:53. | |
suburban railway. There are issues on improving that. There is | :54:54. | :54:59. | |
obviously a clear message the electorate gave at London elections, | :55:00. | :55:04. | |
we now need to move on. There has been talk of him having discussions | :55:05. | :55:12. | |
on air quality, pedestrianise in Oxford Street, these things within | :55:13. | :55:18. | |
his first 100 days, is he likely to get that sort of momentum? Of | :55:19. | :55:24. | |
course, it has been six days and look what he has accomplished in six | :55:25. | :55:29. | |
days. You can ride any buses you like on the first hour. He has made | :55:30. | :55:34. | |
so many improvements and he has fulfilled his promises. It shows the | :55:35. | :55:39. | |
importance of what you can do when you have power, and when you are | :55:40. | :55:43. | |
committed to making something great. Sadiq Khan is committed to making | :55:44. | :55:47. | |
London great and that is proven in what he has been doing. You as a | :55:48. | :55:53. | |
minister as saying quite clearly there is a fair wind to a certain | :55:54. | :55:57. | |
extent because you want that infrastructure to work and just | :55:58. | :56:01. | |
because it is a Labour mayor doing it you will not penalise him | :56:02. | :56:06. | |
financially or otherwise? He obviously has the mandate as the | :56:07. | :56:09. | |
Mayor of London and it is important we work with the new mayor. There | :56:10. | :56:14. | |
are issues of common interest in delivering that safety and security | :56:15. | :56:19. | |
for our city, and also as local MPs on how we can work with the mayor to | :56:20. | :56:24. | |
deliver improvements for our constituents and the areas we | :56:25. | :56:27. | |
represent. Any policies that worry you? We wait to see as they come | :56:28. | :56:34. | |
forward. I'm sure there will be issues where there will be that | :56:35. | :56:38. | |
disagreement but at this time where Sadiq Khan is getting his feet under | :56:39. | :56:42. | |
the desk, let's wait to see how that comes forward but we will be holding | :56:43. | :56:48. | |
him to account. A quick word on his style? He is a man of detail. If he | :56:49. | :56:53. | |
doesn't know the answer to something, he gets someone to know | :56:54. | :56:58. | |
the answer to it so he is surrounding himself with experts in | :56:59. | :57:02. | |
their particular field. I think what we have seen in the first six days, | :57:03. | :57:07. | |
I mean the suffragette statute that will be in Trafalgar Square, what we | :57:08. | :57:11. | |
have seen is someone who is inclusive, determined, and who will | :57:12. | :57:17. | |
make a difference. It is important equally to recognise what an | :57:18. | :57:21. | |
incredible job Boris Johnson did, cutting crime, air quality issues... | :57:22. | :57:30. | |
A man we have often discussed. With no attention to detail at all! Every | :57:31. | :57:35. | |
now and then he even appeared on the programme! | :57:36. | :57:37. | |
And now for the rest of the news in 60 seconds. | :57:38. | :57:41. | |
The Chief Executive of Barnet Council has left his job | :57:42. | :57:44. | |
after a blunder led to some voters being turned away from polling | :57:45. | :57:47. | |
stations in last week's mayoral election. | :57:48. | :57:51. | |
Voters were initially turned away from all 155 polling stations | :57:52. | :57:53. | |
in the borough because their names were missing from the poll list | :57:54. | :57:58. | |
Andrew Travers left the authority by mutual agreement. | :57:59. | :58:04. | |
Two prison officers were seriously injured by at least one inmate | :58:05. | :58:06. | |
This came just two days after staff walked out over safety fears, | :58:07. | :58:13. | |
claiming staff had been assaulted and that legal highs | :58:14. | :58:15. | |
Heathrow Airport has promised to reduce night flights and curb | :58:16. | :58:24. | |
both noise and pollution if it is allowed to build | :58:25. | :58:26. | |
The pledge comes ahead of a Government decision expected | :58:27. | :58:31. | |
this summer on whether to expand Heathrow or Gatwick. | :58:32. | :58:34. | |
The Institute of Directors said the Government has now run out | :58:35. | :58:37. | |
of excuses for delaying the decision. | :58:38. | :58:50. | |
James, the chief executive of Heathrow was now saying he has given | :58:51. | :58:55. | |
David Cameron the space to make that decision because they have gone and | :58:56. | :59:00. | |
fulfilled the demands of the airport's commission. What is | :59:01. | :59:05. | |
holding you back now? The Airports Commission made a number of | :59:06. | :59:09. | |
recommendations. A lot of deal has to be got right so it is a question | :59:10. | :59:13. | |
still of getting the correct decision, such a momentous decision | :59:14. | :59:18. | |
for not just our wonderful city but also the whole of the country, and | :59:19. | :59:22. | |
therefore the Government will take that decision in the appropriate | :59:23. | :59:26. | |
time, taking into consideration all of these factors, and therefore is | :59:27. | :59:30. | |
not being rushed and it is about getting the right outcome. If the | :59:31. | :59:35. | |
Government makes that decision even though Sadiq Khan has said he will | :59:36. | :59:39. | |
oppose it, you wouldn't want him to spend much time opposing it, just | :59:40. | :59:45. | |
make it happen. The Government not rushing is a bit of an | :59:46. | :59:49. | |
understatement. Just make a decision. Even if it is | :59:50. | :59:51. | |
pro-expansion? They said if they build terminal | :59:52. | :00:03. | |
five they will not want a third runway. They are still wanting a | :00:04. | :00:07. | |
third runway. Expanding Gatwick would be great. We have to consider | :00:08. | :00:13. | |
the quality. We are trying to address these issues. I think it is | :00:14. | :00:19. | |
great but ultimately, let's make a decision so that we can move on and | :00:20. | :00:26. | |
look at alternatives. Would you at least accept that the uncertainty is | :00:27. | :00:31. | |
not good for you. At least further information is come through to make | :00:32. | :00:34. | |
that decision. I think what we have heard assist that. Thank you for | :00:35. | :00:41. | |
coming. Great to see you both. Back to you. Welcome back. | :00:42. | :00:50. | |
Now, have you had enough of the EU referendum? | :00:51. | :00:52. | |
Well there's a Queen's speech next week in which we're | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
promised Her Majesty will be talking about something other than Europe. | :00:56. | :00:57. | |
When Her Majesty visits Parliament on Wednesday, | :00:58. | :01:01. | |
front and centre in her speech will be measures for curbing | :01:02. | :01:06. | |
extremism, including banning hate speakers from working with children | :01:07. | :01:12. | |
And David Cameron will push forward with Conservative plans | :01:13. | :01:15. | |
for the British Bill of Rights, in an attempt to assert | :01:16. | :01:22. | |
the supremacy of UK courts in the run-up to the EU referendum. | :01:23. | :01:25. | |
The Prime Minister will also press ahead with reforms to the adoption | :01:26. | :01:28. | |
system, to speed up the placement of children with permanent families. | :01:29. | :01:31. | |
New rules will also be brought in to make Britain a world leader | :01:32. | :01:36. | |
in the development of driverless cars, and the fishing port | :01:37. | :01:38. | |
of Newquay may be about to become the UK's first spaceport. | :01:39. | :01:41. | |
It is one of eight sites the Government will be looking at. | :01:42. | :01:45. | |
And finally, schools in England will be on the Queen's | :01:46. | :01:47. | |
Along with the Government's watered-down plans for academies, | :01:48. | :01:56. | |
ministers will also now be scrambling to work out | :01:57. | :01:58. | |
new rules to stop parents taking their children out of school | :01:59. | :02:01. | |
for family holidays during term time, following the High | :02:02. | :02:03. | |
I don't get the impression there is much to detract from the referendum | :02:04. | :02:16. | |
campaign. Who knows whether any of it will happen? You were just | :02:17. | :02:19. | |
talking about the Lords and the number of defeats, this has been a | :02:20. | :02:23. | |
very torrid legislative session for the government. You've had | :02:24. | :02:28. | |
situations where the whips don't seem to know what is going on. The | :02:29. | :02:33. | |
Sunday trading Bill, it seemed like the government did not realise they | :02:34. | :02:37. | |
had not got the votes locked down. Nobody knows who will be pro | :02:38. | :02:45. | |
Minister after June the 23rd. Who will be driving this legislation | :02:46. | :02:49. | |
through? -- who will be Prime Minister. Theresa May is a | :02:50. | :02:55. | |
complicated opinion on the EU, she wants to leave the EC HR but stay | :02:56. | :03:03. | |
part of the EU. It is not there to be exciting, it is to prove the | :03:04. | :03:09. | |
government is doing something. To the extent that there is any theme | :03:10. | :03:15. | |
to what he announces, we need to go back to 2005, David Cameron said he | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
wants sunshine to win the day, the wants his party to stop banging on | :03:21. | :03:23. | |
about Europe and to be a social reformer. There is a mention of | :03:24. | :03:31. | |
reforming adoption systems, it is like the big society has been | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
wrenched back and David Cameron wants people to think about his | :03:36. | :03:40. | |
legacy as different from the one nation Tory. Would be too much of an | :03:41. | :03:49. | |
exaggeration to say that the government is running the Remain | :03:50. | :03:59. | |
campaign and is too busy doing that? I don't think that it's an | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
exaggeration at all. This speech is going through the motions, I don't | :04:04. | :04:08. | |
think it is something they need to do. I don't think anyone will get | :04:09. | :04:12. | |
terribly excited about it. This British bill of rights, I had to | :04:13. | :04:22. | |
look it up to see if it is the same thing he has been talking about | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
since opposition. But unless you come out of the European Court, it | :04:28. | :04:33. | |
does not make any difference. You can always go to Strasberg. What was | :04:34. | :04:40. | |
your take from Iain Duncan Smith. He's an interesting media performer | :04:41. | :04:45. | |
but I'm not sure he has appeal beyond the base. The swing voter | :04:46. | :04:50. | |
everybody is trying to target tends to be an older northern man, classic | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
Labour voter. What figures can speak to those kind of people? I think all | :04:56. | :05:01. | |
politicians have got a problem. Some pollsters said, who is the figure | :05:02. | :05:10. | |
who could convince people? They said, the guy from money | :05:11. | :05:18. | |
supermarket. The Governor of the Bank of England is the closest you | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
get in the political sphere. This is a real problem for the Leave | :05:23. | :05:29. | |
campaign, they don't have enough people who preach beyond the | :05:30. | :05:35. | |
converted. I was at the premiere of Brexit The Movie. I felt that was a | :05:36. | :05:41. | |
missed opportunity. So many commentators were wheeled out who | :05:42. | :05:44. | |
were over the age of 50, the audience loved it but will it appeal | :05:45. | :05:50. | |
beyond? I worry about that. Commentators over the age of 50 will | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
never catch on. What did you take of it? There was a John Major called | :05:55. | :06:00. | |
and Iain Duncan Smith winced with fury. You realised this Tory civil | :06:01. | :06:09. | |
war, the wounds were first fleshed out 30 years ago. This stuff goes | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
deep. Clearly immigration is his strongest card and the idea that it | :06:15. | :06:18. | |
is a conspiracy between these people to keep us in, that is going to be | :06:19. | :06:23. | |
their strongest card. That and immigration. He did effectively call | :06:24. | :06:27. | |
for the resignation of Mark Carney. Now the rhetorical heat has been | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
turned up on both sides Let's just compare David Cameron's | :06:34. | :06:36. | |
language in November last year Some people seem to say that really | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
Britain couldn't survive, couldn't do OK outside | :06:41. | :06:43. | |
the European Union. Let's be frank, Britain | :06:44. | :06:49. | |
is an amazing country. We've got the fifth biggest economy | :06:50. | :06:54. | |
in the world, we are If we vote to leave on the 23rd | :06:55. | :06:57. | |
of June, we will be We will be voting for fewer jobs, | :06:58. | :07:03. | |
we will be voting for lower growth. We will be voting | :07:04. | :07:09. | |
potentially for a recession. He has dined out on the Euro-sceptic | :07:10. | :07:28. | |
shilling for all these years and it contrasts hugely with what he is | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
saying no. It was bound to come back and haunt her. It is remarkable the | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
extent to which David Cameron has been radicalised by his own | :07:38. | :07:41. | |
campaign. Being in number ten is like being in a cult. He has lost | :07:42. | :07:48. | |
everything about his heritage. He is fundamentally Euro-sceptic. Now we | :07:49. | :07:56. | |
hear somebody banging the drum as if Armageddon is happening if we vote | :07:57. | :08:04. | |
out. It is bizarre. It is a problem, what is the true David Cameron? Is | :08:05. | :08:07. | |
it the one that we had only last November? We should go back into the | :08:08. | :08:14. | |
archives further, to see what he is saying then,. But is it the one who | :08:15. | :08:20. | |
says if we leave there will be armed conflict? The issue for me, if you | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
believe this, why would you risk armed conflict for minor changes to | :08:26. | :08:33. | |
our welfare balance? There is a really interesting difference | :08:34. | :08:36. | |
between him and Theresa May. She said the sky will not fall in but in | :08:37. | :08:43. | |
a dispassionate way, on balance I want us to remain in. That is | :08:44. | :08:46. | |
realistic. Jeremy Corbyn has handled this better than a it Cameron. That | :08:47. | :08:53. | |
is another politician who is naturally Euro-sceptic comedy | :08:54. | :08:56. | |
follows the left-wing line that there is a democratic deficit, | :08:57. | :08:59. | |
corporate interests. When he is asked about it he gives an answer as | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
he did yesterday that is about social protections and workers and | :09:05. | :09:09. | |
sounds quite convincing. What do you make of it? When David Cameron and | :09:10. | :09:14. | |
owns the referendum it was born of panic. The cause we have short-term | :09:15. | :09:22. | |
culture in politics, it was brought about by the rise of Ukip, Nigel | :09:23. | :09:27. | |
Farage was doing fantastically well. Little did they know that they would | :09:28. | :09:31. | |
only get one MP and it has backfired massively. If this was going to risk | :09:32. | :09:37. | |
Armageddon it was stupid and irrational of the Prime Minister. I | :09:38. | :09:43. | |
wanted to ask you about the polls but we've not got time. By next | :09:44. | :09:52. | |
week, maybe when it has sunk in so far we have not seen any difference | :09:53. | :09:53. | |
in the polls. Now, viewers in the North West | :09:54. | :09:56. | |
will have just seen Conservative MP for Cheadle Mary Robinson challenged | :09:57. | :09:58. | |
about whether expenses for volunteers on a Conservative | :09:59. | :10:00. | |
election Battle Bus in the run-up to last year's general election | :10:01. | :10:03. | |
should have been charged to her local campaign | :10:04. | :10:05. | |
or the national party. The Conservative Party are under | :10:06. | :10:07. | |
investigation for failing to declare these expenses - | :10:08. | :10:13. | |
something they put down to an administrative error - | :10:14. | :10:15. | |
but Ms Robinson insisted The party was quite clear to us | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
locally that it would be included in the national spend | :10:22. | :10:27. | |
and that was what we relied on, and from my point of view | :10:28. | :10:30. | |
it was never going to be a national The national party told you this | :10:31. | :10:33. | |
was going to be a national expense? The national party was clear that it | :10:34. | :10:37. | |
was part of the national expense. It is not going away. It is really | :10:38. | :10:45. | |
important. Journalists come under a lot of flak. This is a very | :10:46. | :10:51. | |
difficult story to report. It is about minor details, accounting | :10:52. | :10:55. | |
This has been kept alive entirely by journalists. Particularly Michael | :10:56. | :11:03. | |
Crick on Channel 4 News. Exactly. Things come out and it is hard to | :11:04. | :11:07. | |
keep them down. People sitting at home thinking journalism is all | :11:08. | :11:12. | |
terrible, for once people will think happier. Think of the fury of the | :11:13. | :11:19. | |
Labour moderates, this is an open goal, a well-organised Labour Party, | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
strong leadership, it might be exposed a bit, but they should | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
exploit this. They have got complete silence. So far you've got 11 police | :11:29. | :11:32. | |
forces investigating the Conservative Party about fraud and | :11:33. | :11:38. | |
not a pipsqueak. The reason there are so quiet is because they are up | :11:39. | :11:44. | |
to their necks in it as well. That is the difficulty, that it has been | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
very difficult for broadcasters to get MPs on from other parties | :11:49. | :11:51. | |
because they are all concerned that they have too much to hide. When I | :11:52. | :11:57. | |
asked Alan Johnston about it, he did not know anything about it. Michael | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
Portillo did not know about it either. I found that quite | :12:01. | :12:09. | |
remarkable. It is a hard story to digests. What is the one sentence | :12:10. | :12:16. | |
explanation for that? When there is all this blunder about the EU, it is | :12:17. | :12:22. | |
crowding everything out. The money was charged to the national campaign | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
which was under the legal limit It should have been charged to the | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
local campaigns but that would have put it over the legal limit and that | :12:31. | :12:33. | |
is where the criminal penalties are. This is a big story about the way | :12:34. | :12:37. | |
elections are funded, which is ridiculous. As soon as somebody gets | :12:38. | :12:44. | |
into government they lose interest in it. You need to cover American | :12:45. | :12:49. | |
elections if you think that is ridiculous. I'm serious, the | :12:50. | :12:54. | |
evidence we have is about the Conservatives, how serious? I think | :12:55. | :13:02. | |
they will get away with it. I don't think the Labour Party is well | :13:03. | :13:08. | |
placed to exploit it. The problem is it will solidify and consolidate a | :13:09. | :13:10. | |
feeling lots of people have that politicians are a bunch of crooks, | :13:11. | :13:17. | |
most of them are not. This certainly stinks. We shall see. The police | :13:18. | :13:25. | |
investigations are going on. That is it for today. Thank you to all of my | :13:26. | :13:30. | |
guests. I will be back at the same time next week here on BBC One. The | :13:31. | :13:37. | |
Daily Politics is back tomorrow If it is Sunday, it is the Sunday | :13:38. | :13:39. | |
Politics. | :13:40. | :13:46. |