15/05/2016 Sunday Politics London


15/05/2016

Similar Content

Browse content similar to 15/05/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

comparing the mission of the European Union with

:00:37.:00:45.

what Hitler was trying to achieve - has the Leave campaign's self-styled

:00:46.:00:48.

Churchillian attack dog gone too far?

:00:49.:00:54.

He says leaving the European Union

:00:55.:00:55.

will improve the lives of the "have nots" -

:00:56.:00:58.

but is the man who presided over billions of pounds of welfare

:00:59.:01:01.

cuts really on the side of working people?

:01:02.:01:03.

Reducing the powers of the House of Lords

:01:04.:01:07.

would not be acceptable, says the woman charged with keeping order

:01:08.:01:09.

in the upper house - but with 60 government defeats

:01:10.:01:12.

in the last year alone have their Lord and Ladyships

:01:13.:01:14.

And with me - as always - three journalists who'd have been

:01:15.:01:41.

sure to win the Eurovision political punditry contest: Helen Lewis,

:01:42.:01:43.

Isabel Oakeshott and Amol Rajan who'll be tweeting throughout

:01:44.:01:46.

So earlier in the week the Prime Minister warned that

:01:47.:01:52.

leaving the EU could precipitate armed conflict in Europe.

:01:53.:01:54.

Today, Boris Johnson hits back, comparing the European Union

:01:55.:01:56.

to Hitler in an interview with the Sunday Telegraph:

:01:57.:02:00.

"Napoleon, Hitler, various people tried this out,

:02:01.:02:02.

The EU is an attempt to do this by different methods."

:02:03.:02:20.

Boris goes on to say "The euro has become a means by which superior

:02:21.:02:23.

German productivity is able to gain an absolutely unbeatable advantage

:02:24.:02:25.

Could you organise an ordinance that British politicians should just shut

:02:26.:02:43.

up about Hitler? It is an interesting one, the campaign are

:02:44.:02:49.

getting quite grumpy, saying that he was not really talking about Hitler.

:02:50.:02:56.

Boris is to clever not to know that if you mention Napoleon and Hitler

:02:57.:03:00.

people will write headlines. He is a columnist and he knows this. It is

:03:01.:03:09.

bizarre. It was Sadiq Khan sitting at home thinking he was the only

:03:10.:03:17.

London mayor was not mentioned Hitler? The campaign has become

:03:18.:03:22.

quite personal, it is about David Cameron's relationship with them,

:03:23.:03:29.

and whether he has a hope of becoming leader. And as always like

:03:30.:03:39.

to make things personal. It does not surprisingly in the slightest that

:03:40.:03:44.

it is becoming more personal as the clock ticks towards the key date. On

:03:45.:03:50.

Boris Johnson's comments, absolutely agree with Helen but no good can

:03:51.:03:56.

come of a politician mentioning Hitler, but the reaction to the

:03:57.:04:00.

remarks has been rather hysterical. If anyone bothers reading the

:04:01.:04:06.

context... In the context. The Mac was an absolutely reasonable

:04:07.:04:14.

statement of historical fact. We should not get to a point where

:04:15.:04:18.

nobody can mention anything historical without it creating a

:04:19.:04:23.

ridiculous action. I don't think it will be arise if it helps them win

:04:24.:04:30.

votes. He fancies herself as an inherent to Winston Churchill, it

:04:31.:04:38.

was in store. In your dreams, if the copy had come in and you had seen

:04:39.:04:45.

the word logo might think you have a chance for a headline. Ever since

:04:46.:04:51.

the collapse of the Roman Empire there have been attempts to unify

:04:52.:05:03.

Europe. In a way, the Germans have that... There was a slight

:05:04.:05:08.

difference in having endless pragmatic committees and ruling

:05:09.:05:11.

tanks and to Poland. By different means is quite different. He was

:05:12.:05:17.

arguing it was an attempt to unify Europe, it is bundled together

:05:18.:05:23.

different ideas. It is a bit of a stretch. But overstretch! I think

:05:24.:05:32.

there was a real danger... And what is the European Union, parable?

:05:33.:05:42.

People support Brexit would say it was an attempt to build a European

:05:43.:05:46.

super structure without a Democratic base. Democratic nations. It is

:05:47.:05:54.

completely reasonable. Ireland begins to cover girl to make

:05:55.:05:57.

important arguments about historical trends. Butler was Fromer remark.

:05:58.:06:06.

He only mentioned Napoleon. Maybe he should have mentioned other leaders.

:06:07.:06:25.

What do you make of the polls, showing neck and neck but they are

:06:26.:06:31.

so far ahead in the economic argument, and that is why we will

:06:32.:06:40.

win. They always hoped that. The evidence is that people put the

:06:41.:06:46.

economy as the highest concern. What the Leave campaign is trying to do,

:06:47.:06:52.

we've seen this from Nigel Farage, make the point that this is not just

:06:53.:06:58.

about GDP, a few extra pounds in your pocket. The Leave campaign will

:06:59.:07:06.

be hoping to highlight the question of what this means for society.

:07:07.:07:13.

Now - would leaving the European Union be good

:07:14.:07:15.

for the poor and disadvantaged in Britain?

:07:16.:07:17.

That's the case that's being made by the former Work

:07:18.:07:19.

and Pension Secretary Iain Duncan Smith.

:07:20.:07:21.

I will be talking to him in a moment.

:07:22.:07:23.

But first let's hear the warnings earlier this week about

:07:24.:07:25.

the short-term impact of Brexit on the economy

:07:26.:07:27.

from the Governor Bank of England, Mark Carney.

:07:28.:07:35.

A vote to leave the European Union could have material economic effects

:07:36.:07:38.

on the exchange rate, on demand, and on the economy's

:07:39.:07:40.

So, this combination of influences on demand,

:07:41.:07:46.

supply and the exchange rate could lead to a materially lower

:07:47.:07:49.

path for growth and a notably higher path for inflation

:07:50.:08:00.

than in the central projections set out in today's

:08:01.:08:03.

Welcome back to the Sunday Politics. You've claimed that leaving the EU

:08:04.:08:18.

would be good for the have nots but the Governor of the Bank of England

:08:19.:08:26.

says it could lead to recession inflation, unemployment. That could

:08:27.:08:29.

be bad. If all the predictions were right. Every single one of these

:08:30.:08:34.

predictions is done by groups of people who've got most of their

:08:35.:08:37.

predictions wrong. The point I would make to you, the Treasury prediction

:08:38.:08:47.

and the IMS prediction all show that if Britain left the EU the economy

:08:48.:08:52.

would grow. Their argument is it would not grow as fast but how you

:08:53.:08:59.

can predict a 0.6% variation is beyond me. He was the point I really

:09:00.:09:12.

believe about the bank, which is where I find this very back. I think

:09:13.:09:18.

the bank, the governor has strayed into an expression of a simple,

:09:19.:09:22.

personal prediction. I don't think it is actually possible for you to

:09:23.:09:27.

say with any absolute accuracy that that will happen. In a sense, when

:09:28.:09:32.

you listen to what he said, he started to nuance about the idea, he

:09:33.:09:36.

was not seeing it actually would be comic he said he thought it could be

:09:37.:09:40.

about that. Here is my point about the independence of the Bank of

:09:41.:09:45.

England. Section ten of the 199 act makes it very clear that if he is to

:09:46.:09:49.

talk about monetary policies, for which he has independence, he has to

:09:50.:09:55.

be open, impartial and all things must be available. Last year, in

:09:56.:10:02.

2015, when he spoke about the threat to the British economy, he made the

:10:03.:10:05.

point which Mervyn King has made that the euro instability and the

:10:06.:10:11.

crash has been very damaging to the British economy and will be even

:10:12.:10:17.

more damaging as it goes on. Notice that when he came out on Thursday he

:10:18.:10:20.

said nothing about the overall problems if we remained in. If

:10:21.:10:29.

you had damned well better say you had damned well better say

:10:30.:10:35.

and the threats of remaining are very clear. Mervyn King said there

:10:36.:10:41.

is a crisis going on and he does not see an end to it. Why don't we hear

:10:42.:10:49.

from him about that? Has he breached his obligations as Governor of the

:10:50.:10:55.

Bank of England? I believe that he has. Should he resign? I think he

:10:56.:11:05.

ought to be asked why he has not brought out both sides of the issue.

:11:06.:11:12.

He used to work for Goldman Sachs. They are running through this,

:11:13.:11:18.

funding the campaign, he has been very clear on it. You bring out

:11:19.:11:27.

Goldman Sachs, lack of impartiality, you think he is not keeping his

:11:28.:11:33.

remit, should he resign? I think he needs to answer about this one

:11:34.:11:38.

simple charge. I would like to see the e-mail exchange over this issue,

:11:39.:11:43.

the telephone conversation minutes, to see whether the Treasury has had

:11:44.:11:49.

any involvement in this process whatsoever, what worries me slightly

:11:50.:11:56.

about what is going on, the Bank of Scotland comes out on Thursday and

:11:57.:12:01.

then suddenly the head of the IMF comes out on Friday with a similar

:12:02.:12:04.

prediction. These are the same people that were telling us all that

:12:05.:12:11.

the UK is too small to leave and too insignificant. Now we are so

:12:12.:12:14.

insignificant that we are plunging the world into an economic crash.

:12:15.:12:21.

Are we saying this was an accident? The governor did not call? Let me

:12:22.:12:32.

ask you this, we know what made .. Are you saying they are colluding? I

:12:33.:12:41.

wonder. Do you have any evidence? Suddenly on Wednesday and Thursday,

:12:42.:12:44.

you have reports coming out, do you think they spoke to each other about

:12:45.:12:48.

what they are doing? I wonder about that. The Chancellor is supporting

:12:49.:12:55.

the governor, he then stands behind Christine Lagarde. We know that they

:12:56.:13:06.

are players in this. The IMF always works with them. We know which major

:13:07.:13:11.

economic authorities you don't like. The Treasury, the IMF, the Bank of

:13:12.:13:15.

England, the OECD, which major economic authorities do you rate?

:13:16.:13:19.

There have been some good reports out, there are a number of good

:13:20.:13:25.

economists, lots of others from the city who have produced a report

:13:26.:13:30.

which got very little coverage about the prospect... Any major economic

:13:31.:13:35.

apologies? Yes but when they have come out with these reports they

:13:36.:13:38.

have said the UK would continue to grow. Not as quickly. Not as

:13:39.:13:44.

quickly. My point is if you're going to be balanced you need to

:13:45.:13:50.

constantly reference that point and if they want to say that there is a

:13:51.:13:53.

possibility this could lead to a problem he must also point out that

:13:54.:13:59.

if we remain there is a possibility that we will be damaged by this You

:14:00.:14:05.

made that .3 times. Let me ask you, can you name a major economic

:14:06.:14:08.

authority on your side of the argument? I would not expect one to

:14:09.:14:15.

be on our side. So you have none? It would be completely unusual for all

:14:16.:14:22.

these institutions not to want to act the status quo. All these

:14:23.:14:27.

institutions said there was no problem in 2007 and then one year

:14:28.:14:31.

later we hit the buffers and the economy went down. None of them

:14:32.:14:40.

predicted it. Including the Conservatives. None of them have

:14:41.:14:41.

apologised for their failure. I want to show you this chart. This

:14:42.:14:54.

shows our balance of payments, our deficit. It is the difference

:14:55.:14:59.

between our exports and imports We import a lot more than we export in

:15:00.:15:04.

goods and services. It has continually got worse under your

:15:05.:15:09.

government. This deficit, which is multi-billion, is financed by

:15:10.:15:13.

foreigners who buy our sterling as I to make up the gap. If Brexit create

:15:14.:15:21.

a falling pound, why would the foreigners continue to pay for our

:15:22.:15:27.

deficit? If the economy didn't perform, why would be, but if you

:15:28.:15:30.

look at all those who predicted where we would be now, they all said

:15:31.:15:35.

the threat of Brexit would actually bring the pound crashing. The pound

:15:36.:15:39.

is now rising back up, close to where it was when we started this

:15:40.:15:46.

campaign. 10% on last November. We had this deficit, it is financed by

:15:47.:15:51.

foreigners. If they lose confidence in this country, confidence in

:15:52.:15:57.

Stirling, how do we pay for this? We have to make sure we run the economy

:15:58.:16:01.

in a way that they have confidence in it, we have to get some of those

:16:02.:16:05.

regulations down, we have to make British industry more competitive.

:16:06.:16:10.

We have to have a better plan to get industry working again. That would

:16:11.:16:14.

be in the long term, this could be a short-term problem that could hit in

:16:15.:16:20.

the summer. If it results leaving in an uncontrolled, plummeting

:16:21.:16:24.

sterling, and the foreigners because of the uncertainty and sterling

:16:25.:16:27.

going down are saying we are not going to continue to finance it the

:16:28.:16:30.

bank would have to raise interest rates, wouldn't it? If that was the

:16:31.:16:37.

circumstance, yes, but it is what you plan to do. Why are they

:16:38.:16:40.

investing in what we are doing at the moment? They buy the bonds

:16:41.:16:49.

because they believe the Government has a long-term plan to get the

:16:50.:16:53.

deficit down and reduce borrowing. Therefore they believe the UK is a

:16:54.:16:57.

good investment and running a trade surplus with the rest of the world.

:16:58.:17:04.

We are running a huge deficit. Yes, but we are running a trade surplus.

:17:05.:17:10.

If they need to finance this deficit, and it is not the budget

:17:11.:17:15.

deficit, it is how the foreigners by our assets in order to help us run

:17:16.:17:22.

this deficit. If interest rate did rise, it follows that mortgage rates

:17:23.:17:27.

could rise substantially. Yes but the alternative could be the same,

:17:28.:17:30.

in other words if they believe what we are doing is right for the

:17:31.:17:36.

economy they are prepared to back it, which means you wouldn't have

:17:37.:17:40.

rising interest rates. All of this is speculation because we don't

:17:41.:17:45.

know. Boris Johnson has admitted that after Brexit there would be a

:17:46.:17:53.

Nike tick, that he believes the economy would take a hit, but it

:17:54.:17:57.

would recover strongly. Do you believe that? Possibly but this is

:17:58.:18:02.

speculation about something nobody knows. There has been speculation

:18:03.:18:07.

about forecast in these economies, most of them are wrong because

:18:08.:18:12.

people are unable to tell us about what they think about our prospects

:18:13.:18:17.

afterwards. If we vote to leave we are already able to show we can get

:18:18.:18:21.

our money back in due course and we are able to start planning our own

:18:22.:18:25.

economy so we are able to get the kind of deals we need. That shows

:18:26.:18:31.

you have a plan that works. You could offer short-term crisis in the

:18:32.:18:36.

interim, couldn't you? They are worried whether their mortgage will

:18:37.:18:40.

have risen by August or September of this year. If that were to happen

:18:41.:18:48.

but the word is if. This is pure speculation. The point I am making

:18:49.:18:52.

is that the reality is it may go in the opposite direction. Nobody can

:18:53.:18:59.

say that. The EU guarantees a number of social protections for workers,

:19:00.:19:03.

covering things like equal pay, working time, maternity pay. Can you

:19:04.:19:08.

pledged to fight to maintain all of these protections if we leave? All

:19:09.:19:14.

of these were accepted by the Conservative government and I

:19:15.:19:17.

believe strongly then need to be protections for workers. All of

:19:18.:19:20.

these things in a democracy are debated but the British government

:19:21.:19:26.

have actually themselves instituted protections for workers. So would

:19:27.:19:31.

you fight to keep the protections they currently have under EU

:19:32.:19:39.

guarantees? As it stands, yes. Why should people trust you because you

:19:40.:19:43.

opposed the Web Time directive in 1996, and voted against the minimum

:19:44.:19:48.

wage in 1997. Why would they have not looked to you for this social

:19:49.:19:54.

protection? Because rather than forecast ahead, look back at what

:19:55.:20:00.

has happened to them. The immigration has damaged them. I m

:20:01.:20:04.

simply saying what has happened therefore my argument has been, and

:20:05.:20:08.

you have known that over a long time, over nine years I have argued

:20:09.:20:12.

this process has been most damaging to the people at the low skilled

:20:13.:20:18.

end. That is the migration issue, it may well be true. I'm asking you why

:20:19.:20:25.

should people trust you on these EU social protections that they would

:20:26.:20:28.

remain if we came out since you voted against them when they were

:20:29.:20:34.

being proposed? The working Time directive gave little or no

:20:35.:20:38.

flexibility at the time. It has been in place and we had to work with it.

:20:39.:20:44.

You protect the workforce but you make sure the competition that they

:20:45.:20:48.

face in terms of their jobs is actually fair competition, not

:20:49.:20:53.

unfair competition. What has happened, as you saw on Thursday

:20:54.:20:57.

with the national insurance numbers, is a very high proportion of people

:20:58.:21:01.

coming in in under 52 weeks here who have no commitment to the UK often

:21:02.:21:07.

staying in bed sits, compete on the low salary end of life. Is the

:21:08.:21:14.

working Time directive, which guarantees the hours people work in

:21:15.:21:19.

a week and proper breaks, is that safe after Brexit or not? UK law

:21:20.:21:25.

would enshrine what we think is best for protection of workforce and that

:21:26.:21:29.

is right. A democratic government will decide on what it thinks is

:21:30.:21:34.

right. That is possible for Labour or Conservative. I believe it is

:21:35.:21:38.

right to have it, the question is how flexible... People watching this

:21:39.:21:45.

will not be reassured by this. I will stick to the agreements we

:21:46.:21:50.

have. You point your fist in the Commons when the Chancellor

:21:51.:21:56.

announced the new national living wage, now you say it is a magnet for

:21:57.:22:02.

migrants, what changed? I said it is a good people for people wanting to

:22:03.:22:07.

come and work here because they will get a higher wage. I am wholly in

:22:08.:22:11.

favour of a rise to the minimum wage because I believe that over time

:22:12.:22:15.

what happens to businesses is they have got around paying lower

:22:16.:22:21.

wages... Would you still be in favour of it if we stayed in the EU?

:22:22.:22:28.

Yes, because it is the best way you can drive the wages up but if we

:22:29.:22:33.

stay in the EU it will become a magnet for people to come in here

:22:34.:22:37.

and it will lead to huge problems. The point I made on Tuesday this

:22:38.:22:41.

week was that have we have seen already lots of people from the EU

:22:42.:22:48.

tend to come in. The vast majority of people coming from the European

:22:49.:22:52.

Union into the UK, they tend to be low skills, they tend to be ones

:22:53.:22:56.

taking a high proportion of those low skilled jobs. They have taken

:22:57.:23:01.

them at lesser salary and driven it down. The overall average wage will

:23:02.:23:06.

still be low for those on low skills. You have brought up

:23:07.:23:11.

migration several times in this interview, isn't the blunt truth,

:23:12.:23:16.

because I was asking about the economics, you are losing the

:23:17.:23:19.

economic arguments, the polls show that, you are more dependent on

:23:20.:23:24.

scaring people. John Major says What do you say? Rubbish. Very

:23:25.:23:44.

simple, he is talking nonsense. He said only a few years ago that there

:23:45.:23:49.

was a real issue over immigration. The Government had a target to get

:23:50.:23:54.

tens of thousands, the limit down to tens of thousands, we are not

:23:55.:23:58.

achieving that. We talked about it in the run-up to the election. The

:23:59.:24:02.

Prime Minister himself made a strong commitment that we would ensure our

:24:03.:24:06.

borders were protected against people coming to be here so it is

:24:07.:24:10.

nonsense because we are not raising this is an issue because we are

:24:11.:24:14.

trying to win the referendum. Most people in the country believes there

:24:15.:24:19.

is an issue about the open border with the European Union. Why is it

:24:20.:24:30.

demagoguery, why is it extremism to speak for British people who feel

:24:31.:24:32.

like their views are being tossed aside? If you don't do it, the

:24:33.:24:35.

extreme parties get onto it. Was it wise Boris Johnson to compare the

:24:36.:24:42.

EU's ambitions? I thought it was a good article because he spoke about

:24:43.:24:49.

this nonsensical... Was it wise to compare it with Hitler? Do you think

:24:50.:24:56.

Hitler's efforts to unify Europe are the same as the European Union's

:24:57.:25:01.

efforts? I think the whole process of trying to drive Europe together

:25:02.:25:05.

by force or democracy ultimately makes problems. Isn't this

:25:06.:25:11.

referendum getting vaguely absurd? We have the Prime Minister dangling

:25:12.:25:16.

the thought of world War three if we leave, and on your side we have

:25:17.:25:20.

Boris Johnson saying Hitler and the European Union are on the same

:25:21.:25:24.

script. It is both nonsense and you know that. All he is doing in the

:25:25.:25:29.

interview is talking about the trend towards the idea, and he's using

:25:30.:25:39.

historical parallels to explain it. You go through this great idea that

:25:40.:25:44.

somehow there is a thing called greater Europe. Whether or not you

:25:45.:25:48.

like the linguistics of this, my point remains the same. If you vote

:25:49.:25:55.

to remain on the 23rd, you are voting, the 12 residents said it

:25:56.:26:00.

clear that they intend to deepen... The five presidents. The five

:26:01.:26:10.

presidents rather. David Cameron and George Osborne won't debate other

:26:11.:26:14.

Tory ministers during the referendum, are they concerned about

:26:15.:26:19.

party unity or just running scared? You will have to ask them. My view

:26:20.:26:24.

about it is that it is right to have a proper debate and by not opening

:26:25.:26:28.

that debate the British public will be left to wonder why they were not

:26:29.:26:32.

allowed to see the two opposing sides of the argument from the

:26:33.:26:36.

leading figures. You would debate the Prime Minister? Yes, we need to

:26:37.:26:42.

get these things straight face-to-face. After all, if this

:26:43.:26:46.

were an election would be Remain side be allowed to say we won't

:26:47.:26:51.

debate Ed Miliband fustian might know, they cannot do that. There are

:26:52.:26:57.

two side to this argument, if two sides have to debate it that is

:26:58.:27:03.

right and proper. It should be down to impartiality that we have two

:27:04.:27:09.

sides, the two sets of leaders. Iain Duncan Smith, thank you.

:27:10.:27:13.

Now, the Commons are elected, the House of Lords are not

:27:14.:27:15.

and is supposed to be a "revising chamber".

:27:16.:27:17.

But have their lord and ladyships been overstepping the mark?

:27:18.:27:20.

Over the the past year, they've inflicted 60 defeats

:27:21.:27:22.

on a Government that's now poised to clip the Lord's wings -

:27:23.:27:25.

reducing their power to block changes in the law.

:27:26.:27:27.

But in an exclusive interview before she steps down as the speaker

:27:28.:27:30.

of the House of Lords in the summer, Baroness D'Souza has told us

:27:31.:27:33.

that the powers of the Lords should not be curtailed.

:27:34.:27:35.

It's very obvious why they are called the crossbenchers,

:27:36.:27:44.

My guide knows this place pretty well, how it works, who's who.

:27:45.:27:51.

Since 2011, she's been Lord Speaker, a role which involves

:27:52.:27:53.

overseeing proceedings here, representing the Lords at home

:27:54.:27:55.

and abroad, and sitting on a sack of wool.

:27:56.:28:01.

But the business in here over which Baroness D'Souza presides has

:28:02.:28:08.

come under increasing criticism from the Government.

:28:09.:28:12.

247 members of the House of Lords sit as Conservatives peers,

:28:13.:28:14.

making the governing party a significant minority of the 8 7

:28:15.:28:17.

members eligible to take part in the Upper House.

:28:18.:28:24.

The Government has faced 60 defeats in the House of Lords in the most

:28:25.:28:27.

The rate of defeats this time round is more than twice that

:28:28.:28:32.

Then, the Government was defeated in less than a quarter

:28:33.:28:38.

of votes compared to more than half in the present one.

:28:39.:28:42.

Now there's a sense that the Lords are too rebellious, they have been

:28:43.:28:45.

too rebellious over the last few years and essentially the Lords

:28:46.:28:48.

You know, all governments and all parliamentarians,

:28:49.:28:52.

or at least House of Commons, always feel that the House of Lords

:28:53.:28:58.

is a place that thwarts them in one way or another.

:28:59.:29:01.

And they're right, they do, but that is in the nature

:29:02.:29:06.

They have all the power and rightly so.

:29:07.:29:15.

I still think it's right that the Lords should be free

:29:16.:29:17.

to scrutinise and to question and to hold the Government

:29:18.:29:21.

to account, and to send back legislation which it feels is not

:29:22.:29:24.

adequate, either in terms of its clarity or because perhaps it

:29:25.:29:30.

infringes from time to time individual liberties

:29:31.:29:32.

And that's exactly what happened last October.

:29:33.:29:38.

The House of Lords effectively blocked the Government's proposed

:29:39.:29:41.

changes to tax credits, a massive blow to George

:29:42.:29:44.

Unelected Labour and Liberal Lords have voted down a matter passed

:29:45.:29:51.

by the elected House of Commons that raises constitutional issues

:29:52.:29:54.

and David Cameron and I are clear they will need to be dealt with

:29:55.:29:58.

The way they dealt with it was to ask Lord Strathclyde

:29:59.:30:00.

He concluded peers should lose their absolute veto over

:30:01.:30:04.

detailed laws known as secondary legislation, and instead be allowed

:30:05.:30:09.

only to send it back to the Commons to think again.

:30:10.:30:12.

There's going to be a lively debate about this in the House of Lords

:30:13.:30:16.

and I think that there will be a lot of views expressed and obviously

:30:17.:30:19.

you would expect the Lords to want to retain their power

:30:20.:30:22.

to scrutinise their power, their privilege.

:30:23.:30:26.

If you start curtailing or eroding or limiting the power

:30:27.:30:31.

of the Lords to do its job, there is a question

:30:32.:30:34.

There is another question, too, over the sheer number

:30:35.:30:44.

Baroness D'Souza told me she would be pushing for a Lords

:30:45.:30:48.

motion in the new session, she says the House of Lords should

:30:49.:30:51.

not be larger than the Commons, suggesting the number of peers

:30:52.:30:53.

At least 20% of them should be independents or crossbenchers,

:30:54.:30:58.

and no one party should have a political majority.

:30:59.:31:01.

She said all of that can be achieved by 2020.

:31:02.:31:04.

So, the size is making it inefficient?

:31:05.:31:06.

It does have an impact unfortunately on the role of the House of Lords

:31:07.:31:16.

in holding the Government to account.

:31:17.:31:19.

It's very difficult if you're limited to sort of say,

:31:20.:31:22.

in timed debates, a minute or two minutes to speak, to develop

:31:23.:31:25.

a sustained argument which will convince your fellow

:31:26.:31:27.

peers but also the Government of what it is you are

:31:28.:31:29.

The traditional pomp and ceremony of the Lords is well known

:31:30.:31:33.

but its relationship with the Commons and exactly

:31:34.:31:35.

what role it can play in the future is far more uncertain.

:31:36.:31:42.

And the man who was charged by the Government to review

:31:43.:31:45.

the Lord's powers, Tam Strathclyde, joins us now from Oxfordshire.

:31:46.:31:49.

Welcome to the programme. Nice to see the sun is shining rate you are.

:31:50.:31:58.

We've just heard, what would be the point of the Lloyds if the powers

:31:59.:32:05.

are watered down as your review proposes. What do you say to her?

:32:06.:32:12.

There is no suggestion and no recommendation by anybody in

:32:13.:32:14.

government to fundamentally change the powers of the House of Lords. I

:32:15.:32:22.

made the most mild and humble recommendation about process, where

:32:23.:32:28.

frankly most of us had understood that the customs and conventions

:32:29.:32:35.

that had been built up would stick. Last October, they broke down, as a

:32:36.:32:39.

result there is no consensus and agreement on what those powers could

:32:40.:32:49.

be. I propose a new power to be able to reject and ask. What is

:32:50.:32:58.

interesting is every school child knows that the purpose of the House

:32:59.:33:06.

of Lords is to scrutinise but not to block. What happened was the House

:33:07.:33:13.

of Lords using a veto and given it is unelected, I don't think that

:33:14.:33:19.

power should ever be used. Is the government going to implement your

:33:20.:33:23.

recommendations? Since I reported before Christmas there have been

:33:24.:33:29.

four further reports, three in the House of Lords and one in the House

:33:30.:33:35.

of Commons, commenting on this. I think what the government will want

:33:36.:33:39.

to do is look carefully at these reports before responding. I don't

:33:40.:33:44.

think there needs to be a rush to legislation, and there may well be

:33:45.:33:48.

an attempt to get an agreement between the parties in the House of

:33:49.:33:52.

Lords, between the two Houses of Parliament. But if that consensus

:33:53.:33:58.

cannot be reached, I think the government will have no option but

:33:59.:34:05.

to legislate on this matter. Your government has had 60 defeats at the

:34:06.:34:09.

hands of the Lords. You wonder whether the conservative tune has

:34:10.:34:13.

changed because it was Tory peers inflicting defeat on Labour

:34:14.:34:17.

governments. Now you are getting a taste of your own historic medicine,

:34:18.:34:23.

you just don't like it. I was Leader of the Opposition for most of those

:34:24.:34:34.

years, particularly after the end of the last century. We did defeat the

:34:35.:34:47.

government regularly on primary legislation, not secondary

:34:48.:34:48.

legislation. What was interesting in your package is the government has

:34:49.:34:54.

been defeated in the House of Lords many more times than it did in the

:34:55.:34:59.

first Parliament of Tony Blair's government. Over half of all the

:35:00.:35:04.

votes in the House of Lords are defeated. This is not revision and

:35:05.:35:08.

scrutiny, this is not complementing the work of the House of Commons,

:35:09.:35:13.

this is an aggressive political statement why the other political

:35:14.:35:19.

parties. Is it really? This is a government which increasingly brings

:35:20.:35:21.

forward ill thought out ideas which it has not planned in advance, not

:35:22.:35:28.

without consultation, and is forced into U-turns. There has been a

:35:29.:35:33.

series of them. That is why you need a second chamber, to do proper

:35:34.:35:40.

scrutiny. I am the greatest defender of the second chamber and indeed, a

:35:41.:35:45.

Conservative Party that fully understands the central tenets of

:35:46.:35:48.

the Constitution, understands the central tenets of

:35:49.:35:53.

between the houses, but what we ve seen in the last 12 months, and

:35:54.:35:59.

remember, this is the first 12 months of a new conservative

:36:00.:36:01.

administration, people who were elected to government, scarcely one

:36:02.:36:08.

year ago, and what we've seen in the House of Lords are blocking tactics,

:36:09.:36:13.

using vetoes rather than working with the House of Commons in order

:36:14.:36:18.

to improve that legislation which you rightly criticise. Are you a

:36:19.:36:24.

supporter of the way that governments have bloated the House

:36:25.:36:27.

of Lords? There are over 800 active peers. The US Senate needs 100 and

:36:28.:36:34.

it has real power. You've not got much power and those over 800 of

:36:35.:36:42.

you. Is that sensible? When Mr Blair and his friends throughout the

:36:43.:36:46.

hereditary peers in the 1990s I did argue that there was an inevitable

:36:47.:36:50.

consequence that prime ministers would try to increase their own

:36:51.:36:55.

numbers in the house. What's interesting about Mr Cameron is he

:36:56.:37:04.

has created far more Labour peers. Wide of the need to be 800 of you?

:37:05.:37:11.

You don't. -- why does there need to be 800. But those who want to reduce

:37:12.:37:19.

it to 500 should say how they plan to do that. I would prefer either

:37:20.:37:23.

people to be involved in the decision and they should be directly

:37:24.:37:25.

elected. Thank you for joining us. It's just gone 11.35,

:37:26.:37:28.

you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers

:37:29.:37:30.

in Scotland who leave us now First though, the Sunday

:37:31.:37:33.

Politics where you are. A bit later, first week

:37:34.:37:48.

in the job for Sadiq Khan - Joining me for the duration

:37:49.:37:52.

of the show, James Brokenshire, Conservative MP for Old Bexley

:37:53.:37:56.

and Sidcup, and Dawn Butler, With less than six weeks to go

:37:57.:37:59.

until the EU referendum, former Work and Pensions Secretary

:38:00.:38:07.

Iain Duncan Smith has been arguing this week that immigration had

:38:08.:38:09.

an adverse effect on the employment and housing in the UK generally

:38:10.:38:12.

but on London in particular. The construction of the Olympic Park

:38:13.:38:16.

was a powerful illustration of the way in which those who had

:38:17.:38:19.

come in, those migrants, undercut UK workers

:38:20.:38:22.

through their willingness to endure Visiting job centres,

:38:23.:38:30.

as I did as the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions in east London

:38:31.:38:33.

which is where my constituency was in the time, I met both skilled

:38:34.:38:36.

and unskilled workers who struggled When I asked why, they said people

:38:37.:38:39.

from Eastern Europe, often living in bedsits in various

:38:40.:38:43.

parts of his London without UK housing and family costs

:38:44.:38:47.

that they did, hugely underbid Another big negative economic effect

:38:48.:38:50.

of the level of immigration that British people have never

:38:51.:39:01.

voted for and do not want Young people are the biggest losers

:39:02.:39:03.

from this, they are being forced to pay an ever-larger share

:39:04.:39:10.

of their income on accommodation and suffering longer commutes

:39:11.:39:13.

and often have to move far away The fact is that we need to build

:39:14.:39:15.

around 240 houses every day for the next 20 years just to be

:39:16.:39:20.

able to cope with the increased Joining me now is Andrew Rosindell,

:39:21.:39:23.

the Conservative MP for Romford and a supporter

:39:24.:39:28.

of the Leave campaign. Surely one of the crucial things

:39:29.:39:39.

about the Olympics was getting costs down. You're prepared to say that

:39:40.:39:42.

you would see costs rising higher if it meant recruiting indigenous

:39:43.:39:49.

London workers? I think there should be competition but there should be

:39:50.:39:52.

levelling playing field and at the moment it is not fair because people

:39:53.:39:55.

in the United Kingdom will expect to be paid higher wages, have better

:39:56.:40:00.

family conditions. Unfortunately a lot of the unskilled workers coming

:40:01.:40:05.

from the EU are prepared to live in conditions that most of our

:40:06.:40:07.

constituents would not be prepared to do. It is not fair and is causing

:40:08.:40:14.

depression in the wages across London, it means house prices are

:40:15.:40:18.

rising dramatically so that our constituents are struggling to be

:40:19.:40:22.

able to live in London and uncontrolled immigration is simply

:40:23.:40:27.

not a sensible policy. As long as we are in the EU it will be

:40:28.:40:31.

uncontrolled immigration. I don t think the British people want that.

:40:32.:40:39.

On that point of the Olympics, delivered with 40% foreign workers

:40:40.:40:45.

doing it. We look back on the Olympics as an incredible time for

:40:46.:40:48.

our country and capital city and when we look at the contracts that

:40:49.:40:54.

were awarded, the vast majority to British registered companies, and a

:40:55.:41:02.

fifth of the workers came from local boroughs, ensuring that local people

:41:03.:41:06.

could be employed on the Olympic Park. Looking at what is there, it

:41:07.:41:10.

is important to underline in the context of the EU debates, many

:41:11.:41:18.

people are saying this is the solution. Immigration is a very

:41:19.:41:22.

complex theme, dealing with skills, making sure we have the right skills

:41:23.:41:28.

for our economy, the right skills for people within the capital. As

:41:29.:41:32.

well as putting those controls on, but it is why we are outside of the

:41:33.:41:37.

Schengen Erie and why we have the best of both worlds and how voting

:41:38.:41:42.

out of the EU is at leap in the dark. Local Londoners were excluded

:41:43.:41:52.

because they were undercut. I am quite disappointed by Iain Duncan

:41:53.:41:58.

Smith's speech. A few weeks ago he was crying because of the damage he

:41:59.:42:01.

had done in regards of the housing industry. You cannot blame Brussels

:42:02.:42:05.

for the crisis in the housing industry when he was crying a few

:42:06.:42:12.

weeks ago because he knows the Conservative housing policy was

:42:13.:42:17.

responsible for that. I think the procurement approach could have been

:42:18.:42:23.

better but that was the conservative mayor who had the agenda to do that.

:42:24.:42:32.

It started off with 3000 construction workers. That

:42:33.:42:36.

increased. We did not have enough people trained up to do the work.

:42:37.:42:49.

That is something the conservative government should have acknowledged,

:42:50.:42:53.

and we could have had more people prepared and able to do the job

:42:54.:43:01.

There were not skills here. Why should we discriminate against the

:43:02.:43:04.

Commonwealth countries and the wider world? I am passionate about the

:43:05.:43:11.

Caribbean community. It was amazing, the amount of people from

:43:12.:43:13.

Commonwealth countries who feel this mechanism is unfair to countries

:43:14.:43:20.

with whom we have had historical relations. We are we going to put

:43:21.:43:27.

the city the size of Newcastle every year in the UK? We will have another

:43:28.:43:33.

3 million in the next five years. There is no legitimacy for

:43:34.:43:38.

uncontrolled immigration and it is time the government realised the

:43:39.:43:44.

only way to solve this is to control our borders. We do control our

:43:45.:43:49.

borders, we have passport controls other European countries don't have

:43:50.:43:53.

because we are out of Schengen. Clearly that access to the single

:43:54.:44:02.

market of 500 million people worth ?500 billion which supports around 3

:44:03.:44:06.

million jobs across the UK is absolutely essential. The suggestion

:44:07.:44:13.

that we would still be able to access that, it is why the pro

:44:14.:44:19.

Minister is right to deal with the pool factors. I don't think the

:44:20.:44:35.

skier programme and tactics you are using is good for the EU debate If

:44:36.:44:42.

you take one aspect of construction, the EU serves an important role

:44:43.:44:47.

I've got a church being built. If you take into consideration the

:44:48.:44:51.

health and save the aspect, nobody died whilst building the Olympic

:44:52.:44:55.

Stadium because we have good health and see the regulations and that

:44:56.:44:56.

comes from the EU. It is British money we give to the

:44:57.:45:08.

EU and they give some back. We can make our own laws on health and

:45:09.:45:12.

safety, but why is it that you think a Jamaican and should be treated

:45:13.:45:16.

second-class compared to someone from Latvia? I'm not going to go

:45:17.:45:20.

down that road because it is pathetic. Surely we should not

:45:21.:45:26.

discriminate in terms of what type of immigration we have, we should

:45:27.:45:30.

treat everyone fairly. Do you think the public will feel concerned about

:45:31.:45:34.

the figures and the sense of the Government underestimating the

:45:35.:45:37.

impact of migration when we see that... Is it 1.2 million over four

:45:38.:45:44.

years being factored out of the equation, people who have national

:45:45.:45:47.

insurance numbers but they are not here for more than 12 months so they

:45:48.:45:52.

are not including the figures, so we have grossly underestimated the

:45:53.:46:03.

impact of migration. The Office of National Statistics have said

:46:04.:46:11.

something different. If you look at it short-term, people come and go,

:46:12.:46:15.

so to aggregate it up is the wrong approach. Should we can't tourist or

:46:16.:46:22.

visitors because they come to the UK? That is why the ONS were very

:46:23.:46:31.

clear. I said to James, in our manifesto we promised to control

:46:32.:46:34.

immigration, we are failing to do that, and we will only do it if we

:46:35.:46:38.

leave the European Union and take back control of our borders. We will

:46:39.:46:44.

give him the last word because he is going now and you are here later,

:46:45.:46:46.

and only for that reason! So, lauded around the world,

:46:47.:46:49.

at the heart of a spat with the Republican frontrunner

:46:50.:46:51.

for President, and launching a new All in a week's work

:46:52.:46:54.

for the new mayor, Sadiq Khan. And the signs are he doesn't

:46:55.:46:58.

want to hang about, Monday morning and the first

:46:59.:47:00.

day in the office for My wife has hayfever

:47:01.:47:03.

and she's currently suffering because of the flowers we have

:47:04.:47:08.

received over the last weekend! Can I just say look,

:47:09.:47:12.

can people please stop sending the lovely sweets

:47:13.:47:15.

they have been sending. The flowers are fantastic

:47:16.:47:17.

but please stop. My wife cannot breathe

:47:18.:47:19.

in the house any more! It's been great, the

:47:20.:47:21.

response has been great. There was more of it to come

:47:22.:47:24.

at Prime Minister's Questions. Last week London elected

:47:25.:47:26.

a new Mayor... I heard the Prime Minister on two

:47:27.:47:28.

occasions this afternoon congratulate the new Mayor

:47:29.:47:37.

of London, Sadiq Khan, and I would like to

:47:38.:47:39.

repeat that myself. It was almost as if the only person

:47:40.:47:42.

who didn't want to lavish praise was his own party leader,

:47:43.:47:45.

Jeremy Corbyn, who said precisely nothing about the fact the party

:47:46.:47:49.

he leads had just won the capital. Since we often celebrate great

:47:50.:47:54.

national events in this House, would the Prime Minister join me

:47:55.:47:59.

in wishing Sir David Attenborough The two had managed this photocall,

:48:00.:48:02.

and had what was called And according to Momentum,

:48:03.:48:10.

the Corbyn-affiliated part of the Labour Party,

:48:11.:48:15.

it is all a fuss about nothing. I think the way this has been

:48:16.:48:20.

presented in the media has been a deliberate attempt to create

:48:21.:48:23.

division or supposed division between those two individuals

:48:24.:48:25.

and generally create divisions I just saw a clip on the news

:48:26.:48:29.

yesterday of their meeting but it Meanwhile the new Mayor was making

:48:30.:48:36.

a splash on the world stage, a visit from the Socialist mayor

:48:37.:48:42.

of Paris, whose city is still recovering from last

:48:43.:48:44.

year's terrorist attacks. She was keen to associate

:48:45.:48:46.

with London's new Muslim Mayor, and also to attack

:48:47.:48:49.

the politics of Donald Trump. We are in the life,

:48:50.:48:54.

we are in our mission, And London's Mayor got involved

:48:55.:49:00.

as well, saying the man almost certain to be the Republican

:49:01.:49:10.

candidate for US president this year was ignorant about Islam,

:49:11.:49:12.

and that, as a Muslim, Sadiq Khan might have to travel

:49:13.:49:15.

to America before Mr Trump got a chance to implement a mooted ban

:49:16.:49:20.

on Muslims entering the country But in response to Sadiq Khan's

:49:21.:49:24.

comments, Mr Trump appeared This week's edition

:49:25.:49:27.

of the left-leaning New Statesman magazine has paid tribute

:49:28.:49:39.

on its cover with a David-like Mr Khan defeating a Goliath-like Trump

:49:40.:49:46.

figure but there was less glamorous After a meeting with Transport

:49:47.:49:49.

for London, he announced his plans for what's being called the Hopper,

:49:50.:49:52.

a new bus fare which means you can get on and off as many routes

:49:53.:49:56.

as you like in a one-hour period. At the moment you have to pay

:49:57.:49:59.

?1.50 for each journey. I think the one-hour Hopper fare

:50:00.:50:04.

is a sensible thing to do. It's frankly slightly amazing

:50:05.:50:07.

it didn't exist. It tells you something

:50:08.:50:11.

about inflexibility perhaps in TfL that they hadn't come up

:50:12.:50:13.

with such an idea themselves. On airports, there was also

:50:14.:50:23.

a reiteration of Sadiq Khan's I'm quite clear, I don't

:50:24.:50:25.

want to close down Heathrow Airport. Expanding City Airport though seemed

:50:26.:50:33.

to move a step closer, after City Hall removed

:50:34.:50:38.

its opposition to the sale of public Green campaigners said it

:50:39.:50:41.

made a bit of a mockery of his previous claim to want to be

:50:42.:50:44.

the greenest mayor ever. Just take a step back, you will have

:50:45.:50:47.

time for photos, thank you. But even his detractors

:50:48.:50:50.

would probably admit that Sadiq Khan's first week as Mayor

:50:51.:50:52.

of London has been nothing It certainly has. David Attenborough

:50:53.:51:08.

got the nod from Jeremy Corbyn but not Sadiq Khan. I must say, I was

:51:09.:51:16.

sitting there thinking, oh he didn't mention it, but I can tell you just

:51:17.:51:22.

between you and I that it was on his notes but he obviously... He

:51:23.:51:27.

obviously just got so caught up in the moment! Even his spokesman

:51:28.:51:32.

didn't claim that he meant to say that afterwards! The thing is that

:51:33.:51:40.

isn't the big story, the big story is Sadiq Khan basically had Zac

:51:41.:51:45.

Goldsmith for breakfast and Donald Trump for dinner. It has been

:51:46.:51:51.

incredible. Our Labour really saying or thinking that he may have altered

:51:52.:51:58.

Donald Trump's policies? Everybody is saying it! I'm sure Hillary

:51:59.:52:01.

Clinton is sending him a thank you sweet. If Hillary Clinton had done

:52:02.:52:07.

that, I'm just wondering if Donald Trump would have got round to saying

:52:08.:52:12.

it anyway at this stage in the cycle. Do you think the mayor of

:52:13.:52:17.

capital city like London would be enough to make a Republican

:52:18.:52:20.

candidate potentially change their policy? I think Sadiq Khan has been

:52:21.:52:27.

very clear in setting out that clear vision for London over the course of

:52:28.:52:31.

the last few days and I pay tribute to him. In those first few days as

:52:32.:52:37.

the mayor, maybe he has pointed the finger at Donald Trump and clearly

:52:38.:52:42.

Donald Trump's previous comments were divisive and wrong. Who knows

:52:43.:52:47.

with Donald Trump. Using the first name Sadiq already. The message will

:52:48.:52:58.

go out, do not talk about him with his first name! But what is your

:52:59.:53:01.

overall impression of his first week? Equally with my perspective

:53:02.:53:07.

from the Home Office seeing Sadiq Khan looking at keeping the city

:53:08.:53:20.

safe... Does he make London less safe? Then if it had been a

:53:21.:53:28.

Conservative? Sadiq Khan has responded to the different

:53:29.:53:32.

questions, he has a clear mandate. We want to work together on

:53:33.:53:36.

delivering that safety and security. There is investment going into

:53:37.:53:40.

policing, firearms policing to guard against some of these attacks that

:53:41.:53:45.

obviously we are very focused to prevent. Therefore it is now working

:53:46.:53:50.

with America London with this agenda in the national interest and that is

:53:51.:53:54.

what we will be doing. Sound good to you? I do think the dog whistle

:53:55.:54:01.

campaign that Zac Goldsmith ran was appalling. The fact that Donald

:54:02.:54:06.

Trump has had to backtrack and David Cameron has apologised... Why don't

:54:07.:54:12.

we look forward now, because everyone has been apologising, how

:54:13.:54:15.

about thinking about what it will be like going forward. We do have to

:54:16.:54:21.

look at that but you also have to acknowledge when you have done

:54:22.:54:23.

something wrong and I don't think they have acknowledged that. Just a

:54:24.:54:30.

general point, were you happy with the way the Conservative campaign

:54:31.:54:35.

was run? It is important we asked a number of questions of Sadiq Khan in

:54:36.:54:39.

his role as Mayor of London, he answered those and got the mandate

:54:40.:54:44.

from the electorate. Our focus now is on working with him. I'm

:54:45.:54:49.

interested in discussing things like transport, how we look at our

:54:50.:54:53.

suburban railway. There are issues on improving that. There is

:54:54.:54:59.

obviously a clear message the electorate gave at London elections,

:55:00.:55:04.

we now need to move on. There has been talk of him having discussions

:55:05.:55:12.

on air quality, pedestrianise in Oxford Street, these things within

:55:13.:55:18.

his first 100 days, is he likely to get that sort of momentum? Of

:55:19.:55:24.

course, it has been six days and look what he has accomplished in six

:55:25.:55:29.

days. You can ride any buses you like on the first hour. He has made

:55:30.:55:34.

so many improvements and he has fulfilled his promises. It shows the

:55:35.:55:39.

importance of what you can do when you have power, and when you are

:55:40.:55:43.

committed to making something great. Sadiq Khan is committed to making

:55:44.:55:47.

London great and that is proven in what he has been doing. You as a

:55:48.:55:53.

minister as saying quite clearly there is a fair wind to a certain

:55:54.:55:57.

extent because you want that infrastructure to work and just

:55:58.:56:01.

because it is a Labour mayor doing it you will not penalise him

:56:02.:56:06.

financially or otherwise? He obviously has the mandate as the

:56:07.:56:09.

Mayor of London and it is important we work with the new mayor. There

:56:10.:56:14.

are issues of common interest in delivering that safety and security

:56:15.:56:19.

for our city, and also as local MPs on how we can work with the mayor to

:56:20.:56:24.

deliver improvements for our constituents and the areas we

:56:25.:56:27.

represent. Any policies that worry you? We wait to see as they come

:56:28.:56:34.

forward. I'm sure there will be issues where there will be that

:56:35.:56:38.

disagreement but at this time where Sadiq Khan is getting his feet under

:56:39.:56:42.

the desk, let's wait to see how that comes forward but we will be holding

:56:43.:56:48.

him to account. A quick word on his style? He is a man of detail. If he

:56:49.:56:53.

doesn't know the answer to something, he gets someone to know

:56:54.:56:58.

the answer to it so he is surrounding himself with experts in

:56:59.:57:02.

their particular field. I think what we have seen in the first six days,

:57:03.:57:07.

I mean the suffragette statute that will be in Trafalgar Square, what we

:57:08.:57:11.

have seen is someone who is inclusive, determined, and who will

:57:12.:57:17.

make a difference. It is important equally to recognise what an

:57:18.:57:21.

incredible job Boris Johnson did, cutting crime, air quality issues...

:57:22.:57:30.

A man we have often discussed. With no attention to detail at all! Every

:57:31.:57:35.

now and then he even appeared on the programme!

:57:36.:57:37.

And now for the rest of the news in 60 seconds.

:57:38.:57:41.

The Chief Executive of Barnet Council has left his job

:57:42.:57:44.

after a blunder led to some voters being turned away from polling

:57:45.:57:47.

stations in last week's mayoral election.

:57:48.:57:51.

Voters were initially turned away from all 155 polling stations

:57:52.:57:53.

in the borough because their names were missing from the poll list

:57:54.:57:58.

Andrew Travers left the authority by mutual agreement.

:57:59.:58:04.

Two prison officers were seriously injured by at least one inmate

:58:05.:58:06.

This came just two days after staff walked out over safety fears,

:58:07.:58:13.

claiming staff had been assaulted and that legal highs

:58:14.:58:15.

Heathrow Airport has promised to reduce night flights and curb

:58:16.:58:24.

both noise and pollution if it is allowed to build

:58:25.:58:26.

The pledge comes ahead of a Government decision expected

:58:27.:58:31.

this summer on whether to expand Heathrow or Gatwick.

:58:32.:58:34.

The Institute of Directors said the Government has now run out

:58:35.:58:37.

of excuses for delaying the decision.

:58:38.:58:50.

James, the chief executive of Heathrow was now saying he has given

:58:51.:58:55.

David Cameron the space to make that decision because they have gone and

:58:56.:59:00.

fulfilled the demands of the airport's commission. What is

:59:01.:59:05.

holding you back now? The Airports Commission made a number of

:59:06.:59:09.

recommendations. A lot of deal has to be got right so it is a question

:59:10.:59:13.

still of getting the correct decision, such a momentous decision

:59:14.:59:18.

for not just our wonderful city but also the whole of the country, and

:59:19.:59:22.

therefore the Government will take that decision in the appropriate

:59:23.:59:26.

time, taking into consideration all of these factors, and therefore is

:59:27.:59:30.

not being rushed and it is about getting the right outcome. If the

:59:31.:59:35.

Government makes that decision even though Sadiq Khan has said he will

:59:36.:59:39.

oppose it, you wouldn't want him to spend much time opposing it, just

:59:40.:59:45.

make it happen. The Government not rushing is a bit of an

:59:46.:59:49.

understatement. Just make a decision. Even if it is

:59:50.:59:51.

pro-expansion? They said if they build terminal

:59:52.:00:03.

five they will not want a third runway. They are still wanting a

:00:04.:00:07.

third runway. Expanding Gatwick would be great. We have to consider

:00:08.:00:13.

the quality. We are trying to address these issues. I think it is

:00:14.:00:19.

great but ultimately, let's make a decision so that we can move on and

:00:20.:00:26.

look at alternatives. Would you at least accept that the uncertainty is

:00:27.:00:31.

not good for you. At least further information is come through to make

:00:32.:00:34.

that decision. I think what we have heard assist that. Thank you for

:00:35.:00:41.

coming. Great to see you both. Back to you. Welcome back.

:00:42.:00:50.

Now, have you had enough of the EU referendum?

:00:51.:00:52.

Well there's a Queen's speech next week in which we're

:00:53.:00:55.

promised Her Majesty will be talking about something other than Europe.

:00:56.:00:57.

When Her Majesty visits Parliament on Wednesday,

:00:58.:01:01.

front and centre in her speech will be measures for curbing

:01:02.:01:06.

extremism, including banning hate speakers from working with children

:01:07.:01:12.

And David Cameron will push forward with Conservative plans

:01:13.:01:15.

for the British Bill of Rights, in an attempt to assert

:01:16.:01:22.

the supremacy of UK courts in the run-up to the EU referendum.

:01:23.:01:25.

The Prime Minister will also press ahead with reforms to the adoption

:01:26.:01:28.

system, to speed up the placement of children with permanent families.

:01:29.:01:31.

New rules will also be brought in to make Britain a world leader

:01:32.:01:36.

in the development of driverless cars, and the fishing port

:01:37.:01:38.

of Newquay may be about to become the UK's first spaceport.

:01:39.:01:41.

It is one of eight sites the Government will be looking at.

:01:42.:01:45.

And finally, schools in England will be on the Queen's

:01:46.:01:47.

Along with the Government's watered-down plans for academies,

:01:48.:01:56.

ministers will also now be scrambling to work out

:01:57.:01:58.

new rules to stop parents taking their children out of school

:01:59.:02:01.

for family holidays during term time, following the High

:02:02.:02:03.

I don't get the impression there is much to detract from the referendum

:02:04.:02:16.

campaign. Who knows whether any of it will happen? You were just

:02:17.:02:19.

talking about the Lords and the number of defeats, this has been a

:02:20.:02:23.

very torrid legislative session for the government. You've had

:02:24.:02:28.

situations where the whips don't seem to know what is going on. The

:02:29.:02:33.

Sunday trading Bill, it seemed like the government did not realise they

:02:34.:02:37.

had not got the votes locked down. Nobody knows who will be pro

:02:38.:02:45.

Minister after June the 23rd. Who will be driving this legislation

:02:46.:02:49.

through? -- who will be Prime Minister. Theresa May is a

:02:50.:02:55.

complicated opinion on the EU, she wants to leave the EC HR but stay

:02:56.:03:03.

part of the EU. It is not there to be exciting, it is to prove the

:03:04.:03:09.

government is doing something. To the extent that there is any theme

:03:10.:03:15.

to what he announces, we need to go back to 2005, David Cameron said he

:03:16.:03:20.

wants sunshine to win the day, the wants his party to stop banging on

:03:21.:03:23.

about Europe and to be a social reformer. There is a mention of

:03:24.:03:31.

reforming adoption systems, it is like the big society has been

:03:32.:03:35.

wrenched back and David Cameron wants people to think about his

:03:36.:03:40.

legacy as different from the one nation Tory. Would be too much of an

:03:41.:03:49.

exaggeration to say that the government is running the Remain

:03:50.:03:59.

campaign and is too busy doing that? I don't think that it's an

:04:00.:04:03.

exaggeration at all. This speech is going through the motions, I don't

:04:04.:04:08.

think it is something they need to do. I don't think anyone will get

:04:09.:04:12.

terribly excited about it. This British bill of rights, I had to

:04:13.:04:22.

look it up to see if it is the same thing he has been talking about

:04:23.:04:27.

since opposition. But unless you come out of the European Court, it

:04:28.:04:33.

does not make any difference. You can always go to Strasberg. What was

:04:34.:04:40.

your take from Iain Duncan Smith. He's an interesting media performer

:04:41.:04:45.

but I'm not sure he has appeal beyond the base. The swing voter

:04:46.:04:50.

everybody is trying to target tends to be an older northern man, classic

:04:51.:04:55.

Labour voter. What figures can speak to those kind of people? I think all

:04:56.:05:01.

politicians have got a problem. Some pollsters said, who is the figure

:05:02.:05:10.

who could convince people? They said, the guy from money

:05:11.:05:18.

supermarket. The Governor of the Bank of England is the closest you

:05:19.:05:22.

get in the political sphere. This is a real problem for the Leave

:05:23.:05:29.

campaign, they don't have enough people who preach beyond the

:05:30.:05:35.

converted. I was at the premiere of Brexit The Movie. I felt that was a

:05:36.:05:41.

missed opportunity. So many commentators were wheeled out who

:05:42.:05:44.

were over the age of 50, the audience loved it but will it appeal

:05:45.:05:50.

beyond? I worry about that. Commentators over the age of 50 will

:05:51.:05:54.

never catch on. What did you take of it? There was a John Major called

:05:55.:06:00.

and Iain Duncan Smith winced with fury. You realised this Tory civil

:06:01.:06:09.

war, the wounds were first fleshed out 30 years ago. This stuff goes

:06:10.:06:14.

deep. Clearly immigration is his strongest card and the idea that it

:06:15.:06:18.

is a conspiracy between these people to keep us in, that is going to be

:06:19.:06:23.

their strongest card. That and immigration. He did effectively call

:06:24.:06:27.

for the resignation of Mark Carney. Now the rhetorical heat has been

:06:28.:06:33.

turned up on both sides Let's just compare David Cameron's

:06:34.:06:36.

language in November last year Some people seem to say that really

:06:37.:06:40.

Britain couldn't survive, couldn't do OK outside

:06:41.:06:43.

the European Union. Let's be frank, Britain

:06:44.:06:49.

is an amazing country. We've got the fifth biggest economy

:06:50.:06:54.

in the world, we are If we vote to leave on the 23rd

:06:55.:06:57.

of June, we will be We will be voting for fewer jobs,

:06:58.:07:03.

we will be voting for lower growth. We will be voting

:07:04.:07:09.

potentially for a recession. He has dined out on the Euro-sceptic

:07:10.:07:28.

shilling for all these years and it contrasts hugely with what he is

:07:29.:07:32.

saying no. It was bound to come back and haunt her. It is remarkable the

:07:33.:07:37.

extent to which David Cameron has been radicalised by his own

:07:38.:07:41.

campaign. Being in number ten is like being in a cult. He has lost

:07:42.:07:48.

everything about his heritage. He is fundamentally Euro-sceptic. Now we

:07:49.:07:56.

hear somebody banging the drum as if Armageddon is happening if we vote

:07:57.:08:04.

out. It is bizarre. It is a problem, what is the true David Cameron? Is

:08:05.:08:07.

it the one that we had only last November? We should go back into the

:08:08.:08:14.

archives further, to see what he is saying then,. But is it the one who

:08:15.:08:20.

says if we leave there will be armed conflict? The issue for me, if you

:08:21.:08:25.

believe this, why would you risk armed conflict for minor changes to

:08:26.:08:33.

our welfare balance? There is a really interesting difference

:08:34.:08:36.

between him and Theresa May. She said the sky will not fall in but in

:08:37.:08:43.

a dispassionate way, on balance I want us to remain in. That is

:08:44.:08:46.

realistic. Jeremy Corbyn has handled this better than a it Cameron. That

:08:47.:08:53.

is another politician who is naturally Euro-sceptic comedy

:08:54.:08:56.

follows the left-wing line that there is a democratic deficit,

:08:57.:08:59.

corporate interests. When he is asked about it he gives an answer as

:09:00.:09:04.

he did yesterday that is about social protections and workers and

:09:05.:09:09.

sounds quite convincing. What do you make of it? When David Cameron and

:09:10.:09:14.

owns the referendum it was born of panic. The cause we have short-term

:09:15.:09:22.

culture in politics, it was brought about by the rise of Ukip, Nigel

:09:23.:09:27.

Farage was doing fantastically well. Little did they know that they would

:09:28.:09:31.

only get one MP and it has backfired massively. If this was going to risk

:09:32.:09:37.

Armageddon it was stupid and irrational of the Prime Minister. I

:09:38.:09:43.

wanted to ask you about the polls but we've not got time. By next

:09:44.:09:52.

week, maybe when it has sunk in so far we have not seen any difference

:09:53.:09:53.

in the polls. Now, viewers in the North West

:09:54.:09:56.

will have just seen Conservative MP for Cheadle Mary Robinson challenged

:09:57.:09:58.

about whether expenses for volunteers on a Conservative

:09:59.:10:00.

election Battle Bus in the run-up to last year's general election

:10:01.:10:03.

should have been charged to her local campaign

:10:04.:10:05.

or the national party. The Conservative Party are under

:10:06.:10:07.

investigation for failing to declare these expenses -

:10:08.:10:13.

something they put down to an administrative error -

:10:14.:10:15.

but Ms Robinson insisted The party was quite clear to us

:10:16.:10:21.

locally that it would be included in the national spend

:10:22.:10:27.

and that was what we relied on, and from my point of view

:10:28.:10:30.

it was never going to be a national The national party told you this

:10:31.:10:33.

was going to be a national expense? The national party was clear that it

:10:34.:10:37.

was part of the national expense. It is not going away. It is really

:10:38.:10:45.

important. Journalists come under a lot of flak. This is a very

:10:46.:10:51.

difficult story to report. It is about minor details, accounting

:10:52.:10:55.

This has been kept alive entirely by journalists. Particularly Michael

:10:56.:11:03.

Crick on Channel 4 News. Exactly. Things come out and it is hard to

:11:04.:11:07.

keep them down. People sitting at home thinking journalism is all

:11:08.:11:12.

terrible, for once people will think happier. Think of the fury of the

:11:13.:11:19.

Labour moderates, this is an open goal, a well-organised Labour Party,

:11:20.:11:24.

strong leadership, it might be exposed a bit, but they should

:11:25.:11:28.

exploit this. They have got complete silence. So far you've got 11 police

:11:29.:11:32.

forces investigating the Conservative Party about fraud and

:11:33.:11:38.

not a pipsqueak. The reason there are so quiet is because they are up

:11:39.:11:44.

to their necks in it as well. That is the difficulty, that it has been

:11:45.:11:48.

very difficult for broadcasters to get MPs on from other parties

:11:49.:11:51.

because they are all concerned that they have too much to hide. When I

:11:52.:11:57.

asked Alan Johnston about it, he did not know anything about it. Michael

:11:58.:12:00.

Portillo did not know about it either. I found that quite

:12:01.:12:09.

remarkable. It is a hard story to digests. What is the one sentence

:12:10.:12:16.

explanation for that? When there is all this blunder about the EU, it is

:12:17.:12:22.

crowding everything out. The money was charged to the national campaign

:12:23.:12:26.

which was under the legal limit It should have been charged to the

:12:27.:12:30.

local campaigns but that would have put it over the legal limit and that

:12:31.:12:33.

is where the criminal penalties are. This is a big story about the way

:12:34.:12:37.

elections are funded, which is ridiculous. As soon as somebody gets

:12:38.:12:44.

into government they lose interest in it. You need to cover American

:12:45.:12:49.

elections if you think that is ridiculous. I'm serious, the

:12:50.:12:54.

evidence we have is about the Conservatives, how serious? I think

:12:55.:13:02.

they will get away with it. I don't think the Labour Party is well

:13:03.:13:08.

placed to exploit it. The problem is it will solidify and consolidate a

:13:09.:13:10.

feeling lots of people have that politicians are a bunch of crooks,

:13:11.:13:17.

most of them are not. This certainly stinks. We shall see. The police

:13:18.:13:25.

investigations are going on. That is it for today. Thank you to all of my

:13:26.:13:30.

guests. I will be back at the same time next week here on BBC One. The

:13:31.:13:37.

Daily Politics is back tomorrow If it is Sunday, it is the Sunday

:13:38.:13:39.

Politics.

:13:40.:13:46.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS