08/05/2016 Sunday Politics London

A thumping big win for Labour over the Conservatives in London -

but what do Thursday's less impressive results across

the country mean for Jeremy Corbyn's chances of getting to Number 10

We'll hear from both sides of the debate

Here's one Tory riding high at least.

Scottish Conservative leader Ruth Davidson has managed to take

the party once thought of as too toxic for Scotland

And with the elections now over it's back to the biggest political

The Cabinet's heavyweights have been trading blows

In London - Sadiq Khan emerged triumphant from an often rancorous

And how will the Khan- Corbyn combo work?

giving media interviews this morning, I'm joined in the studio

by the aristocracy, the upper crust, the royalty

Tom Newton-Dunn, Julia Hartley-Brewer and Steve Richards.

We're going to have a whip round after the show

and get Steve a double-barrelled surname too.

So, this week's elections were an extraordinary

demonstration of modern democracy in the United Kingdom.

There was good and bad for almost every political party

across the nations and regions, and that's meant a feast

of spinning, analysis, claim and counter-claim.

Well today with almost all of the results now in -

although we're still waiting for a few police and crime

commissioners and one English council - we're going to try

First here's Adam with his behind-the-scenes look at how

It's election night, and my chance to annoy the big

And this is the most depressing bit.

Are you expecting to get a bit of a headache?

It's a two day extravaganza of results.

Will Jeremy Corbyn be staying up all night tonight?

Jeremy doesn't go to bed on nights like this!

We're old mates, we've been together 30 years on these different things

So you're both proper election night geeks?

The Labour telly addicts watched their party lose one council

and a handful of councillors in England, not a lot,

but not amazing either, as even Jeremy Corbyn admitted.

We were getting predictions that Labour was going to lose councils,

Although he celebrated winning two by-elections in pretty

This is the first time I've ever had a desk at one of these things.

The SNP got close to a majority in the Scottish Parliament,

It is a vote of confidence in the record in government

of the SNP, and it is a vote of trust in the SNP to lead

Davidson, Ruth - Scottish and Conservative and Unionist..

The biggest smile belongs to Ruth Davidson, leader

of the Scottish Tories, who displaced Labour to become

Have you been looking in the results in Scotland than just going whoa?

Even if you look at some of the seats...

We've just seen a few come through, the SNP have hold of one, but,

actually, with huge swings from the SNP to the Conservatives.

In Wales Ukip won their first seats on the Assembly,

meaning a comeback for the former Tory MP Neil Hamilton,

who managed to offend one Welshman within seconds.

I'm thoroughly Welsh through and through,

Here were are in virtually your hometown of Llanelli.

Just one correction, Neil, of course it's not

virtually my hometown - it is my hometown.

So let's be very accurate about that, shall we?

By lunchtime on Friday, us media types had realised that

nothing especially dramatic had happened, so we all hotfooted

it to City Hall to see Labour's Sadiq Khan elected

Though most of the chat among the hacks in the press room

was about the campaign run by his Tory rival, Zac Goldsmith,

which was described as mean and divisive.

I personally never went near central office in either

of my campaigns, and I don't think Boris Johnson did either.

Is that because they're not very good?

That's because you are the candidates, it is

your campaign and you should run it your way.

And Labour nabbed another mayor in Bristol, taking over

The results from other campaigns around the UK are still

It's not been super exciting, but we have got a nice view

So with almost all the counting and number crunching across England,

Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland now finished, let's take a look

The SNP won the Scottish election, and will be the largest party

But Nicola Sturgeon's party fell two short of a majority, and will govern

Ruth Davidson's Conservatives overtook Labour to become the second

biggest party north of the border, with 31 seats.

Scottish Labour were pushed into 3rd place -

with 24 seats, down 13 from the last Holyrood election

Labour remains the dominant party in Wales, winning 29

And Leanne Wood's Plaid Cymru pipped the Conservatives 12 to 11 to become

taking 7 seats in Wales - the first time they've sat

In Northern Ireland, the DUP will once again

They won 38 seats, with the next biggest party Sinn Fein on 28.

Results in the English councils were seen as a major test

And the party had a mixed night winning the most councils -

but losing 23 councillors since the last elections in 201 .

There were two Westminster by-elections - with Labour

holding the seats of Sheffield Brightside and Ogmore

And the Labour party won in London too -

where Sadiq Khan beat Zac Goldsmith to the mayoralty,

winning 57% of the vote on first preferences, to Goldsmith's 43%

The Green Party came third in the London elections -

with their highest vote tally yet in the capital.

There were also new Mayors chosen in Bristol, Salford and Liverpool -

Finally, voters in 40 police forces in England and Wales

elected their new Police and Crime Commissioner.

With the Tories and Labour triumphing over independents.

With 36 of the 40 election results having declared, the Tories have won

What does this mean, in the round, for Labour? It is the worst possible

result for Labour, because it isn't good enough, and it isn't bad

enough, which is the worst-case scenario for anyone who wants Labour

to win in 2020. This is concerning the likes of Jeremy Corbyn and John

McDonnell, but it is the point of being a political party, winning

elections. Is it the worst of both worlds because they didn't do badly

enough? To justify ousting Corbyn, but they didn't do well enough to

suggest that Corbyn's people were right, and there was a groundswell

of opinion moving to the far left. We saw the message coming out from

the deputy leader on Friday morning, stand-down everyone, not yet. Do you

agree? No. Even if these results had been much worse, as many expected it

would be in the media and beyond, it still wouldn't have been the mood

now. It is all being played out in public. Tom Watson, the deputy

leader, gave an interview on Friday where he called ambiguously for

patients. What he meant was, it is far too early to remove a leader who

got an overwhelming mandate nine months ago in September. And he s

right about that. You can't do it if the party membership overwhelmingly

backs the leader. But what he meant by patients was, you don't have to

translate it, there is a time-limit to this. Jeremy Corbyn needs more

time to show he can put together a winning formula. If he fails in

that, at some point, there will be he and others who will trigger some

kind of challenge. So he's on a leasehold? Yes. He's not doing well

enough to suggest he will win the next election. I don't agree with

Julia that people are indifferent about winning elections. But party

members who voted for Jeremy Corbyn are absolutely different to winning

elections. I don't know. I assume that people who go out knocking on

doors want to win. Sadiq Khan. That was the big result for Labour, and

he won very comfortably. He won very strongly in the GLA as well. The

Tories did very badly. We have this strange situation where, despite

Sadiq Khan being the poster boy for the night, he still hasn't met

Jeremy Corbyn. Is Mr Khan going to be an alternative Labour Party based

around London City Hall? He tells us he's going to meet Jeremy Corbyn

tomorrow. Corbyn said they were going to meet today. It is a real

problem for Jeremy now because he is up against someone else with their

own mandate, an enormous one. 1 3 million Londoners, together with

their second preferences. A huge number. I think Sadiq Khan will use

that to be the mouthpiece of the moderates, the soft left. I would

suggest that if we were not looking at this through the prism of what it

means for Mr Corbyn, we may be pointing out that the Tories didn't

have a great night. They lost seats in England and Wales, they lost

London and their share of the vote in London is now under 30%. They

only got eight seats on the Greater London assembly. They are in their

worst position since 2004, which was the second time we had a London

election. It isn't brilliant for them. They would save the first year

in government, do get this kind of reaction. Or worse ones. At what is

overlooked in all this is that the last Labour government's post-9

devolution proposals has transformed UK politics. In Scotland, the

Conservatives are thrilled because they came second, but that wasn t

about David Cameron, it was about Ruth Davidson, their leader there.

In London, when people voted for Sadiq Khan, they were not thinking

about Jeremy Corbyn. They were voting for him. Unintentionally

those devolution proposals have transformed UK politics, fracturing

the UK parties, and will no longer allow any single party to make those

sort of thousand seat gains that Blair did. But the Tories shouldn't

be too complacent about this. It wasn't a great result. It wasn't,

but who would expect it? The party is an absolute disarray, the deepest

divisions. We have had a senior Cabinet Minister resign, criticising

the Prime Minister and the Chancellor. If they did well this

time, I would be surprised. So the Tories should have done worse? They

should. I would disagree with your hypothesis to begin with, because

they are, in some parts of this country, making remarkable progress,

like Scotland. They could have lost seats. We know the Ruth Davidson

story. If David Cameron can show his own party he's still a winner, six

years into government, I would suggest he is pretty safe

post-referendum. Well, that is our panel's verdict.

So the high point for the Conservatives this week

was undoubtedly in Scotland, where a party once known

as the toxic Tories has become Ruth Davidson's Conservatives,

replacing Labour as Scotland's second party and becoming

the official opposition to the SNP at Holyrood.

Ruth Davidson successfully positioned herself as the only

person capable of standing up to Nicola Sturgeon over independence

This morning Nicola Sturgeon says "bring it on2.

Well we can speak now to Ruth Davidson, she joins us

Good morning. Are the Scottish Conservatives now quite separate

from the Tories? There was no appearance in your campaign from

ministers in Westminster. But our campaign was launched in March?

Other than that, did anybody come up to campaign for you? This was not

about London. It is a sophisticated electorate in Scotland. People knew

what they were voting for. This wasn't about who would be Prime

Minister. This was about who would be the First Minister of Scotland,

and who would be the Leader of the Opposition in Scotland. I made a

very clear campaign of what I would do if I were to be the Leader of the

Opposition, how I would hold the SNP to account, how I would say no to a

second independence referendum, and how I would concentrate on the

things that matter to ordinary Scots. Let's not go over the

campaign again! I could probably say those lines in my sleep! In what

ways to you now regard yourself as distinctive and different from the

English Tories? Since I took over as leader I was

the first leader in Scotland to be the leader of the entire party in

Scotland. In terms of fundraising, Pelissie... What made you different?

You had seen me takes on different policy decisions from my colleagues

down south, if you compare the manifestos you will see differences,

for one example, the right to buy for housing association houses. We

don't think that is appropriate for the housing market in Scotland. How

colleagues did down south. There is a distinct difference that. I wonder

if it was a Scottish Conservative idea or not. The title was Ruth

Davidson, a strong opposition. It did say Scottish Conservatives twice

on the front cover. And multiply many times inside. In the Times the

roof, the whole truth and nothing but the roof. You created a new Tory

brand. -- Ruth the. We don't fight just as conservatives

in Scotland but conservatives in the Unionist party. The echoes of the

Unionist party played quite loud in this election was that they were

looking for people who would unequivocally stand up for the

decision we made just 20 months ago. I think that was an area we fought

strongly on now we have had some success. While I recognise a win for

the Scottish National party, they are now in a third term of

government, and I congratulated the First Minister, what was really

significant about the result is we managed to stop them having a

majority. They slipped back. This idea that they didn't put a clear

mandate for a referendum in their manifesto, unlike in 2011, and now

they don't even have a majority that takes the second referendum off

the table for five years and give Scotland's stability. You say a

second referendum is off the cards and I understand the reasons why. I

suggest that means unionists in the rest of the UK you would like to

back Brexit can now do so without the fear of the second independence

referendum? I argued all through this campaign irrespective of what

happens with a referendum on Europe, that is not trigger point for a

second referendum. I haven't heard anyone in the SNP argued

successfully if there are was a Brexit... It is important we stay

part of the union in which we export so many goods and services. I have

yet to have anyone in the SNP explain it. But I look forward in

the coming weeks to hear them make the argument for that. Last time the

SNP were a majority government the Scottish Tories gave them crucial

support on budget votes. Can you see us of doing that again? I think

times move on. The SNP is no longer led by Alex Salmond... We know that.

I think we will be robust. I will seek to put forward alternatives. I

want to be as positive as I can be, not just crudely and blocking and

questioning, although all of that is important. The debate we haven't had

in Scotland for the last five years, but I want to put forward

alternatives. One area I think we can make common cause is reforming

education, it is a disgrace our school performances have gone back

in Scotland in recent years. We used to have the best education system

anywhere in the world. That is no longer the case. There is a lot I

can do to try and bring the SNP onto our ground. I managed in the last

parliament coming from third, in terms of school testing and money

not just being handed to local authorities, I think we got a wink,

teach first. There are real areas I think we can help the debate in

Scotland and put forward is positive or turn at its. You shouldn't

overplay your part. The SNP is still the dominant party in Holyrood, you

are second, but all the other opposition parties are to the left

of you. You're still a minority voice and won't be able to count on

the opposition, other opposition parties ganging up on your side We

are a hugely important voice precisely because of the other side

in voices you have identified. The First Minister, like the Prime

Minister has competing and conflicting areas of interest: how

one way or another. You are right to say Nicola Sturgeon has that she

wants to make Scotland the highest in the UK. The other parties are

trying to drag a further left, taking more money out of the pocket

of ordinary working Scots. Our voice is crucial to pull her back to the

centre, saying that is not the way to look after the Beeb all working

hard and deserve a break in Scotland but also not the way to look after a

Scottish economy. Last month's figures, 20,000 rise in unemployment

in the UK, most of which came from Scotland. Our economic growth is a

fraction of the rest of the UK. We need to become a more competitive

country. That is an odd and I can make very strongly. Let me ask you

this, when you look at the huge powers that have been devolved

Scotland, and more on their way over schools, education, hospitals,

health, transport and now a chunk of tax as well, is it ever conceivable

that a Scottish MP from a Scottish constituency could ever again be

Prime Minister of the United given that they would have no

responsibility for so many things that affect the rest of the UK? Of

course. Typically in the last Labour government you had a health minister

who came from Lanarkshire in John Reid you had a chance of that came

from Edinburgh. Is that conceivable again, that you could have a Home

Secretary from a Scottish constituency, where everything on

the home front is essentially devolved to Scotland? It was

devolved at the time it was being taken over by John Reid. I know he

played Parliamentary bingo and got a lot of big jobs. If you have English

votes for English laws, a Scottish Prime Minister wouldn't even get to

vote on his own policies. Andrew, you and I have talked about this

many times. You saw our Strathclyde commission report, the basis that

the Smith commission, the devolution of all these powers on one of the

key aspects of that, looking at great detail with constitutional

expert, was to ensure it wouldn t divest Scotland away from the rest

of the UK. I don't think it does. In terms of all of the big jobs, I

think you will see another Scottish Prime Minister, or from Wales or

Northern Ireland. Talent will out. Do you think you've Zac Goldsmith

bought the kind of campaign you fought in Scotland the Conservatives

might have held on to the mayor I don't qualify to talk about that,

I've only been to London once this year. I knew I had a job to deliver

here in Scotland. Even though I am a political geek I didn't watch the

London mayoral race that closely I had a job to do the. Thank you.

So Labour ended the week with a big result to feel cheerful about thanks

to Sadiq Khan's thumping win over Zac Goldsmith to become

The numeric macro has used his big job in office to reach out beyond

the activists, which sounds like criticism of Jeremy Corbyn. He was

talking to Andrew Marr earlier. We in Labour, our mission is to

improve people's lives, and change We only do that

by winning elections, by having a mandate

to improve people's lives. What are the challenges

facing Londoners? How do you tackle

the housing crisis? How do you ensure we have a modern

and affordable transport system How do young people get

the skills of tomorrow? We only do that by speaking to those

people who previously By speaking to Tory voters,

to those outside of our tent. And my point is, we've got to

stop talking about ourselves. Well, to discuss this we're joined

from Leeds by Caroline Flint, she was of course a former minister

and was in Ed Miliband's Welcome back to the programme

Caroline Flint. Let me put Sadiq Khan's quote to you. So-called

natural Labour voters alone will never be enough to win a general

election. Have you seen any progress from Thursday's results that Jeremy

Corbyn's Labour Party is making progress in appealing to beyond the

faithful? We need to make a lot more progress, Andrew. Although we had a

fantastic result in London with Sadiq Khan, and I have to say the

Tory campaign was both shameful and disgusting. We won in Bristol with

Marvin and held onto councils like Crawley, Southampton and Redditch

and Hastings, where I have been many times. It is not enough. We have to

show that we are a party that is competitively challenging the

government. That is why, as Sadiq said in his interview in the

Observer today, we have to reach out beyond the big cities and reach out

to those people who voted Conservative to vote Labour. Then we

can have big politics for a big election and when it. What you say

to John McDonnell, been a bit too in your party, saying I think we are on

a steady course for victory in 020. We are laying the foundations for

that long haul victory in 2020. Is he right or wrong? I believe in

honest straight talking politics. John McDonnell said in the run-up to

these elections, we are looking to hang on. Looking to hang on isn t

enough. This is the worst result for an opposition party after a general

election in 30th. The year after Michael foot was elected we gained

1000 council seats. Tony Blair 800, Ed Miliband over 800. We actually

had a loss of 28. In fact, the Tories, when you look at directly

contested elections, gained three. It doesn't take away from the hard

work on the ground by Labour councillors, Parliamentary

candidates and members in these elections, but we need to be making

far more inroads to be within an opportunity to win in 2020. That is

the challenge for Jeremy. He deserves the right to lead, won the

election, but he has to show, what have the loan from these elections?

Will he talked people like Sadiq Khan to think about how we broaden

our appeal so we can be in a very strong position, 2020. How long has

it got to learn these lessons? Our members were only elected in

September last year. I said he won on a huge mandate. He has not only

won the right to be leader, he is the leader and our members believe

Labour leaders should have the time to prove themselves. But, you know

we know when the election is going to be, that is something relatively

new to our politics in Britain. We also know this election we have to

be honest about what the positive aspects and also about what didn't

work and where we need to gain ground. How long have you got?

People will be looking to hear from Jeremy what he's run and how he will

take us forward and they will be looking... We have elections next

year and the year after, but we have to ask ourselves is a party. I think

this is a really big task for Jeremy Tilse. We are having a debate about

what is the Labour Party for? We have to decide, are we a party of

protest or a mainstream, democratic socialist party which is

competitively challenging for government? If we are the latter,

which we should be, we need to have the politics and the leadership to

actually talk about that much, much more and take us board. That is

really important for all of us. We have to ask ourselves is well, we

have ten years of opposition here. We don't need another five on top of

that. John McDonnell thinks you begrudge things. He says, for

goodness sake get behind the leader, it is time to put up or shut up I

am someone who loves the Labour Party. I joined in 1979, I know what

it's like... Put up or shut up? I am putting up. I put up in the House of

Commons, where I am working with John McDonnell's team on tax

transparency measures. We have a Tory party that should be absolutely

on the ropes. A jet measures they had to drop on tax credits, Sunday

trading they have had to drop, and I knew turned since the last general

election. The education policy in tatters, the Panama papers, it goes

on and on. The truth is we need to be making sure that the public know

about that and we have an alternative to that. At the moment,

despite all those issues facing the Tory party, we didn't make as much

progress as we showed. Let's be honest about these results, let s be

honest about we need to reach out beyond our core vote, just as Sadiq

Khan said. I hope John McDonnell will back me on that. Lets see if we

can continue with this honesty. Given Scotland is now effectively a

no go area for Labour, how could you ever hope to win the 2020 election

on England alone? You would need a 13 point lead, a bigger lead than

Tony Blair had. That is just not conceivable. It is a massive

challenge, Andrew. In Scotland are very disappointing night for

Scotland. I think how Scottish friends all know that the way back

for Labour will take some time. I wouldn't blame Jeremy Corbyn for

what happened in Scotland either. You are right. My understanding is

if we don't make the sort of comeback we need to in Scotland in

the numbers were used to be able to rely on, we need to gain something

like 100 seats, 100 seats in England to have a majority. We need to have

that sort of talking within the party. Activists realise protests in

themselves will not be enough. Labour votes won't be enough and I'm

looking to Jeremy Corbyn to provide the leadership that.

A final question. What you say to several Tory MPs who have said to

me, and I quote, Mr Corbyn's survival is the single most

important thing for Tories for 020? If we are not winning elections

they will say that. In many respects, the Tories were probably

relatively relieved. Despite the shameful campaign they ran in

London, given everything that's been going on in government in the last

eight months, they should be quite relieved in terms of the result We

need to show them that Jeremy can stand up and face those criticisms,

and the way he does that is by reaching out, as Sadiq Khan has

done, as have many councils across the country in keeping their seats,

and do the right thing for Labour. We need to move on, Caroline. Thank

you. So that's the view of one former

member of the Labour frontbench - we're joined now by the current

shadow energy minister Clive Lewis, he's in our Norwich studio -

welcome to the Sunday Politics. Morning, Andrew. Caroline Flint was

saying that George Osborne's latest budget is in ruins, the Tories are

tearing themselves apart over Europe, Iain Duncan Smith resigned

because of what the government is doing to the working poor. The best

Mr Corbyn could say was, we hung on. Is that good enough? Let's have a

look at the focus of the media to -- the media and the punditry. It was

issued in the Labour Party that was the core focus for you guys. You

brought that on yourselves. The bottom line is, at the start of your

programme, you began that the results of the Labour Party, when

actually, we were up 2% in the national share vote and the Tories

were down 5%. Yet you in your commentators started on how it was a

result for Labour. I'm not saying it was anything to shout about. But

let's look at the results. You need 13 points to win, so I would suggest

that one or two points is neither here nor there was yellow Caroline

Flint hit the nail on the head in that we have a massive task in front

of us. But infighting is not the way forward. That is not going to help

us achieve victory in 2020. We all know it is a massive uphill

struggle. We need to think how we can make the best effort to win in

2020, and that is what the next few weeks and months need to be about. I

agree with with so much of what Sadiq Khan said in his interview.

Why doesn't Jeremy Corbyn meet with him? I think he will. But he won the

capital city, by 14 points. It was an incredible victory, the first

Muslim leader of a major city in Europe. And Mr Corbyn, we haven t

seen him anywhere near him yet. It is a fantastic victory. Sadiq Khan

nominated Jeremy. He didn't vote for him, which is a brilliantly

principled position. Corbyn and Khan are comrades and good friends. They

have a lot to learn from each other. Sadiq Khan won because he was with

Jeremy Corbyn. All the people in London who are supporting the Labour

Party under Jeremy Corbyn and reaching out. I am sure that Sadiq

and Jeremy will meet in the near future. It is certainly unusual

Caroline Flint has just told us that the Conservatives should be happy

and relieved by Thursday's results. I don't think they should. In Exeter

they lost four seats. In Ipswich, there were seats we didn't even win

in 97. Their share of the vote is down 5%. They didn't make the games

expected in Wales. I don't think it is a fantastic result for them at

all. I expect the Conservatives will try to turn the focus back on to

Labour, but I don't think they've got anything to crow about either at

the moment. What do you say to Ian Murray, the Scottish Secretary, the

only Labour MP in Scotland. He says, I don't think the public see the UK

Labour Party led by Jeremy Corbyn as being a credible party of future

government in 2020. I listened to the whole interview, and I respect

Ian Murray great real. I heard his statement. I think he was saying,

basically, where we are as a party at the moment isn't good enough I

don't think you'll find anyone in the Labour Party who would disagree

with that. We need to move forward and consolidate. These results were

not the disaster that you and the punditry were predicting. We were

told 150 or 200 seats lost -- would be lost. We were told Jeremy Corbyn

wouldn't win, and then he won with a landslide. We won -- we heard that

the old by-election would be a disaster. And he won. I think the

thing to think about now is that politics is in flux. In the US, we

have a socialist running Hillary Clinton to the wire, but then you

have Donald Trump standing as well. People are concerned and angry, and

things are changing, and the punditry needs to take that into

account and reflect that things are changing. We will take that into

account. I never use the word disaster to talk about Labour's

performance on Thursday. Let's stick with that. I put to you that surely

the real lesson from Scotland is this - if you continue to attack

north of the border, as you have been, you need to do better in

England than even Tony Blair did in 97, and that, I put to you, is

frankly fantasy. Let's look at Scotland. It was a very difficult

night for us. I would rather you looked at England and tell me how

you will do well. This is the issue - what we have done in this weeks

election is consolidate our vote in 2015 and improve it by 2%. We now

need to move forward. We now have next to no chance of winning in 2020

if we remain a divided house, and that is what has happened at the

moment. What we can all learn from Sadiq was explaining is -- in his

interview is that we have consolidated our vote in 2015 and

improved it, and now we have to move on small businesses, to those who

are affected by the government cuts on public services. We need to reach

out to people who have voted Conservative in the past. I think it

is a message that Jeremy Corbyn has two and will listen to. But the key

thing is that a house divided has no chance of being able to do that in

2020. Thank you for joining us. It's just gone 11.35am -

you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers

in Scotland, who leave us now we're going to be talking

about a big week ahead First, though, the Sunday

Politics where you are. Sadiq Khan gained more votes

than his two predecessors managed in their victories -

1.3 million when you take into account first and second

preferences. People are saying that does

effectively give him the biggest ever personal mandate

in UK electoral history. And it is being read not just

as a rejection of Conservative tactics during the campaign,

but giving a real endorsement to his platform of more housing

cheaper transport, more Here with me for the duration

this morning Labour MP for Stoke Newington Diane Abbott;

and Greg Hands, Conservative MP This morning the new mayor has

described his opponent's campaign People were approaching me

during the campaign, dozens and dozens and dozens

of parents, uncles and aunties, grandparents, saying look,

we've done well in business or in accountancy or in law,

and we're encouraging our children and nephews and nieces,

our grandchildren to get But after the way we've seen you be

treated, why should we? After we've seen what you've gone

through, why should we? I've spent my entire

life encouraging those in minority communities,

encouraging those underrepresented to get involved in civic

society, to get involved I've been fighting extremism

and radicalisation all my life. I think when you conduct politics,

you should conduct it in a positive way, to energise and enthuse people

to get involved in politics. But let's just remind

ourselves how we got here - I therefore declare Sadiq Khan to be

elected as the new Mayor of London. More votes than anybody else to hold

the job and the highest turnout London has today chosen hope over

fear, and unity over division. It didn't take long for Tories

to turn on their own campaign. Former Cabinet minister Sayeed Warsi

tweeted it had been "appalling" Even Zac Goldsmith's sister said it

didn't reflect the brother she knew. When Boris got elected we went

from more unified view of London, and it's a real shame

that the politics drifted back And that's what you feel they were,

was nasty and divisive? There was a tinge of that

that was unworthy of Zac and unworthy of the Conservative

Party and unworthy of Sadiq Khan. To his credit, I think Sadiq Khan

handled it with great The location of his swearing-in

ceremony was quite deliberately I wanted to do this signing

in ceremony here, in the very heart of our city, surrounded

by Londoners of all backgrounds Sadiq Khan is now the most powerful

Labour politician in the country - something he's achieved

by being more than willing on the campaign trail to contradict

his party's leadership. Jeremy Corbyn didn't

even make it down here Well, it's an open invite, I'm not

sure what Jeremy was doing today, we'll have to find out

what he was doing. There are people here

from all parties, not just Labour. I'm really proud, as

a mayor, I've done that. And early signs are that the team

running City Hall will be filled with the big names

of the New Labour era. Oona King, former Home Secretary

Jacqui Smith and even Andrew Adonis, one of Tony Blair's closest allies

who left the Labour Party last year in order to work

with the Conservative Government. So, will Sadiq Khan's City Hall

inevitably now be seen as an alternative vision

of what the Labour Party could look like, in particular

when compared to Jeremy Corbyn? Sadiq has been absolutely

clear, he's running Where he disagrees with

Jeremy Corbyn, he's going to be I think that the tradition that

Sadiq will follow in London is that of the great city mayors

in the United States. He'll be on the detail here,

he'll be less of a factional figure in national politics,

and he's certainly not I don't think he's looking

for the next job, I think he's very focused on the job that

he's just inherited. Which may very well be the case

but there were still speculation at City Hall about what Sadiq Khan's

next job might be when the votes The mayoralty can be the making

of a politician, that's been the case with Boris,

and I suspect that will be the case Will we see him lead

the Labour Party now? I think it's certainly possible

it's certainly possible. He will want to use it, I imagine,

as a stepping stone to something In the meantime London's new mayor

will have to make good on his promise of tackling

the capital's housing problems. They will almost certainly

think themselves to have The commitment is to try and build

up to 50,000 homes a year, make many of them affordable -

these are promises which if they are not fulfilled,

will come back to haunt those who made them, and certainly

in the case of Sadiq Khan as the winner, he's going to have

to try and find a way of getting all the boroughs to double

the amount of house building And by the way, to get

lots of cheap housing, as well. What ever the years ahead may hold,

the headline this weekend is Londoners have just made

Sadiq Khan arguably the most powerful British Muslim

in all of history. Diane Abbott, was this that

surprising? It shows that Labour's show was broadly the same in last

year 's general election? He did face an exceptionally nasty

campaign. I was with Ken Clarke on Thursday, and he said that he

suspected there would be some one nation Tories, and Muslim Tories,

who in response to the campaign would either not vote or vote for

Sadiq. I think it will inflict long-term damage on the Tories. And

it didn't even win. It might have been a question of one in one out,

it was said, because there was also Ken Livingstone the week before with

the question of anti-Semitism. There was also an issue with what Ken

chooses to say, and ex-politician, and also the Prime Minister, the

leader of the Conservative Party, standing up in the House of Commons

twice to put up forward the clue in sinew and that Sadiq might be some

kind of Muslim extremist. I have never seen that before. I have never

seen a Prime Minister promote that kind of intime of rhetoric. Do you

accept that? Did you accept that the responsibility for the defeat and

the tone of the campaign, right from the top, the man who use it behind

every week at PMQs? I don't accept that. Throughout the campaign we

were asking legitimate questions, which have now been answered. Let me

congratulate Sadiq Khan on his victory. We look forward to him

working with us. In government, we have a big agenda for London. We are

looking forward to working with the new met of London to deliver

housing, transport improvements air quality improvements and so on. I

think the thrust of the campaign was actually about Zach Goldsmith's

programme for London. And that was against Sadiq Khan's programme for

London, which proved to be more popular, which is one of the reasons

why he won the election. London has been a difficult place for the

Conservative Party. In last year's Enrile election, where Labour

performed quite poorly, the Labour vote went up in London by 7% at the

time it was static and the rest of the country. London has been

difficult for us in recent elections.

Do you regret the campaign in anyway? The bigger issue on the

doorstep was none of this. Do you regret it at all? Any part of the

way the campaign was handled at all? In terms of the campaign, of course.

Whole range of issues crop up in a campaign. On the issue of the focus

from the Prime Minister down on links with extremists? I disagree

with the premise of the question, I don't believe that was the focus of

the campaign. I believe that is the focus of the debrief or analysis of

commentators since the election but you are right, a week ago the

election was dominated by only row with Labour and anti-Semitism. If

the Tories were just asking reasonable questions, why has the

campaign been condemned by Ken Clarke, and a Tory member of the

House of Lords? Tories would be queueing up to distance themselves

from this campaign... I don't accept that. If you look at what having was

saying, we do have to look at some aspects of the campaign. But I don't

think he was condemning the campaign. I was with Ken Clarke on

Friday. You say there is nothing to learn question what from every

campaign there is always things to learn, even from the most humble

by-election all the way through to general election. In politics you

must always learn from campaigns, particularly unsuccessful campaigns.

My career in politics, some of my first campaigns were quite

unsuccessful. You learn from those in stakes. I will not pass

particular comment. One of the issues I will say that cropped up

was the EU, which has been an element we haven't really focused on

which is a big backdrop to this campaign. Let's not for this moment.

Zac Goldsmith has had a long principled position on the EU which

I respect, but it hasn't helped and that cropped up on the doorstep far

more than anything about religion or race or anything in relation to

that. Diane Abbott, it was important for the Conservatives would be

important for anyone to raise questions and explore aspects of a

man's life if they are going to represent this capital city? Sure.

But it is not Labour people it is Tories, and in particular black and

ethnic Tories who have complained about this campaign. Some of them

have written that they couldn't bring themselves to vote. It isn't

just the stuff about Sadiq possibly being a Muslim extremist, but those

different leaflets to Sikhs, Hindus, which particularly upset the Asian

community in London because they felt it was both patronising and

wrong to send leaflets to Hindus about Sadiq is going to take your

gold jewellery and whatever it was. That was particularly nasty and

upset a lot of people. What impact is that going have? Will you be

fighting elections in London in the next two or three is? I don't agree

with the premise of what Diane is saying. I don't that was on the

doorstep. On the doorstep these issues were not a big part of the

campaign. The issues that were a big part of the campaign were housing,

transport, Ed quality and the European Union. You know how

important the issue crime, safety, the terror threat is. Is London

where safe now because of Sadiq Khan as mayor? I think London is as safe

as it can be, with the government working together with American

London, the Metropolitan Police the structures are replaced to make sure

that is the case. Your position is the same as Home always answering it

with in terms of the government With Sadiq Khan as mayor, is London

on safe question what I have no concerns with Sadiq as mayor in

relation to safety concerns in London. The Mayor of London must

work with the government, with the Metropolitan Police. I am looking

forward to us all working together to ensure London remains as safe as

it possibly can be from terrorism. Do you expect, conversely, Sadiq

Khan to take a slightly more critical, could we expect tense

relations with the Metropolitan Police? Not just given his past as a

lawyer representing people who have allegedly been in dispute with the

police, but because generally as a lawyer he has taken a stance against

patent search on things at that I don't think so. Sir Bernard Bogen

was at his installation. -- Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe. I think they

will want to work closely together for one of Ken's best moments as

mayor came when he worked closely with the police. You have some

control of the purse strings. Do you think now we have a Labour mayor,

you won't provide as much up to the city, given the Struthers structure

it need? The Chancellor and I provided a lot of funding for

London. A big package on TFL, 1 billion over the course of the

spending review. A big package on housing, to provide for low-cost

shared ownership, shared homes, state regeneration and so on. We

published the National air quality plans. A lot of action coming from

the government, in relation to London, even ahead of the election.

You're not going to punish Londoners for voting Labour? Of course we will

work with the new mayor in the interest of London and making sure

Londoners get the best possible deal. I say that as a London MP

Chief Secretary to the Treasury I look at all the money going into

London and am satisfied London is getting a good deal. A good deal. I

hope they don't punish Londoners for voting Labour. Why would they, Z is

very important to any government? It would be wrong and

counter-productive but we are going to have to wait and see. It would be

wrong and that is why we're not going to do it. It is incredibly

important. London is one of big engines of this country, going

forward. The government absolute director Clive is the importance of

London, and that is right at the core of a lot of the debate. --

absolutely core. It would be a fair expectation of Londoners to expect

help from the government to keep affairs down because you gave that

to Boris Johnson in the last three years of the Conservative

administration? It would be fair for Londoners to expect that? We have a

very generous settlement for transport of London up until 20 1.

In terms of the money that is given by the government to transport for

London, it is up to them area macro and transport for London to decide

how to spend that money. We have given money to Crossrail as well two

months ago. Our commitment to transport in London cannot be

questioned. With all the attention on the mayoral contest it was easy

to forget the London assembly also had its election.

Raphael Sheridan has been taking a look at what happened.

The Assembly's main political clout rests in its ability

to amend the mayor's budget, but this requires

However, on the night, Labour stopped any chance of that

happening by retaining 12 of the 25 seats.

The Conservatives were down one, on 8.

The Greens retained their two seats, with two new Assembly members,

and Ukip made what Nigel Farage called "a breakthrough",

winning two seats, the first they have held since 2004.

Well, it's a breakthrough, and what's behind it is we are

a very different party to the one that stood here last time around.

We've made big gains in the European elections, general elections,

local elections all over the United Kingdom.

But it was a poor night for the Liberal Democrats,

who were reduced to just one assembly member -

its mayoral candidate, Caroline Pidgeon.

So whilst there might be new faces on the Assembly,

perhaps what this election suggests is that, despite mixed support

the Labour nationally, London has reasserted itself

That is the shape of the body that hold Sadiq Khan to come.

We are beginning to get a sense of what his administration might be.

There might be people like Lord Adonis, who might come and be an

adviser, a Blairite individual like that being a key figure, what do you

think? I think it would be great to bring Lord Adonis in. Anyone who is

mayor would call on Lord Adonis for study gets things done. Do you get

the impression Sadiq Khan's administration might look fairly

Blairite and moderate impaired yours all Jeremy Corbyn's? I think Sadiq

Khan will do what is best for London. I am confident Sadiq will do

that. Has anyone let you know where Jeremy was during that splendid

service at Southwark Cathedral yesterday? I think he was on his way

to Bristol. I know this is not West of England programme, we had a

fantastic result with Marvin becoming the Labour mayor of

Bristol. But he wasn't there? I think you will find that Jeremy and

Sadiq are going to be working closely together. Jeremy is not just

the leader of the party but a long-standing MP and has a

particular interest in issues which will be at the heart of Sadiq's

programme. Tech three housing. Is it possible he wasn't there because he

doesn't like the way and maybe you don't either, that Sadiq Khan has

distanced himself in the campaign from him? And that is not

respectful, doesn't recognise Jeremy Corbyn's mandate? That is a media

live. Jeremy and Sadiq will work closely together, what have to work

closely together. The party in London will expect that and that is

what will happen. What do you think Sadiq Khan should do in terms of

administration? I think that is a question better put to Sadiq Khan.

I'm sure he will be working closely with the government on a number of

these really important issues important to Londoners across the

board. I am looking forward to speaking to him. What about people

like Lord Adonis, Jacqui Smith? That is a decision for Sadiq Khan. Lord

Adonis he works with very closely. He has in very capable in the work

he has done for the National infrastructure committee. It is up

to Sadiq Khan. He has that mandate. It is up to him to deliver that

Would it be another indication perhaps Sadiq Khan was as extremist

as some might have portrayed him? Again, I said disagree with the

premise in that suggestion. The government will work with

whoever the London mayor is. Sadiq Khan, whatever political party, in

the interests of Londoners and the country. People are going to

constantly now at the two of them, the individuals, Jeremy Corbyn and

Sadiq Khan and find differences it's inevitable. People are going to

point out that he was an electoral winner. What was a winner in London,

is what is always a winner in London, the Labour Party. We had

fantastic results, even last in a bad general election. I will say

this, I was all over London in the run-up and on the day, from 7-1 at

night and there were very many people giving me the thumbs up and

coming to me in the street who wanted to win this for Jeremy. Not

everybody, but people wanted a good result for Jeremy London. How much

do think it was an important factor? Sadiq Khan says success has many

parents. Which parent was more important question mark I wouldn't

like to say but there were a lot of activists working their socks off

for Sadiq macro. Andrew was talking to Caroline Flint earlier. Sadiq

Khan said we will be never trusted to govern unless we reach out and

engage with all voters, regardless of background. It has been very

clearly interpreted as having to be much more inclusive than the

messaging around Labour led by Jeremy Corbyn. Every London MP, as I

am and as Jeremy is, an average property in Hackney now costs ?

million. I can't win Hackney and Jeremy can't win Islington on the

basis of people living in council estates. It is naturally the case in

these... You supported the mansion tax? Did I? I think I expressed very

clearly my reservations about the mansion tax. You have to be

inclusive to win seats in London. Jeremy is inclusive and Sadiq will

be. Is this quite a problem for the Conservatives, is Sadiq Khan really

Jeremy Corbyn's man question that was thrust of the campaign up until

now. How you approach this? I think he is going to work with us and we

will work with him, in delivering for London. In terms of the internal

Labour warfare going on, that has been going on for the last year or

longer, I think that is a problem for Labour and not really a problem

for the Conservatives on the government. We will be getting on

with governing the country and leave the internal squabbling to the

Labour Party. You worked really hard in your seat for years and years.

Quite urban, although as a lovely postcode in Fulham, you have set

back, the Conservative cause has been set back by this campaign? I

don't agree. I don't think the issues you have mentioned were the

issues cropping up on the issues were the bread and butter issues and

I will say it again, the European Union referendum, which seems in

Congress but a lot of people in west London, which are overwhelmingly

parts of London, most pro-remain part of Britain were saying they had

problems without candidate because of his position on the EU. We have

run out of time. That is an issue we will be exploring in the next few

weeks. Thank you for joining us Andrew, from here in London, back to

you. Welcome back. The panel is

assembled, and we will be talking about the EU referendum shortly

particularly about Tory splits in that referendum. First, let's get a

reaction to what you have been hearing on the show. Caroline Flint

was very interesting. She said the things that the moderates have said

before, we will need to do better than this, for example. She also

repeated the Tom Watson line, which is that our members think that he

deserves more time. I'm not even sure that if he had lost London

there would have been a coup. There was lots of talk and rumbles, but

there is going to be this one this year for sure. The argument from the

moderates is that he needs more time because of the mandate. At no point

have the Labour voters who voted for Jeremy Corbyn going to say, time is

up now. In 2020 when Labour go to a landslide defeat, they will still

not think there was an argument for Corbyn not to be leader. There is

nothing to be gained by waiting and everything to be lost. When I hear

about people talking about the need for unity and lack of squabbling, it

did remind me of the appeals that used to be made among Tories during

the Maastricht debacle in the early 90s, but it never happened, of

course. When there are divisions, you can't hide them. This drama is

being played out in public. Tom is right. What the so-called moderates

are doing now is much more sensible, which is to say, there won't be a

coup. The hints that there might be have stopped. There will not be a

coup for now, and they are framing it very sensibly with that Watson

line, patience. He has this mandate from last September. It's far too

early to challenge the mandate when he is still popular with the

membership. But let's frame it to see whether he can be an election

winner, and that is fair. If he isn't an election winner, they hope

at some point to persuade the membership... That they will not

persuade the membership. The polls told the members he would not be an

election winner and they voted for him anyway. What was always not a

feasible option to them, although some were contemplating it, was

moving now. It's too early. There is a caveat there, which is that there

is no electoral trigger in 2017 He will not be electorally tested in

2017, as it is all about the shires. With the local elections over

you can expect the referendum campaign to get as hot as a Sunday

afternoon in early May. And, in case you'd forgotten, this

is an argument which has pitched former close Cabinet allies

against one another. Here's Justice Secretary Michael

Gove and Chancellor George Osborne They are giving part of the economic

case for each side of the debate. If we look at the arguments that

are made now about how Britain might suffer outside the European Union

economic play, they are all arguments that are a reprise,

a rerun of the original case that was made against staying

outside the single currency. But more than that, you can see how

countries which are outside the European Union are able to forge

trade deals and to grow faster One of the striking things

about the EU, is that is has brought economic insecurity and massive

youth unemployment to countries I'm pretty clear that there will be

a significant hit to the value of people's homes and to the cost of

mortgages. That's one example of the kind of economic impact that we get

from leaving the youth. The Leave campaign is today saying they would

leave the single market. For me that is an absolutely catastrophic

economic mistake our country. Michael Gove said this morning to

Andrew Marr that the relations between the warring Tory cabinet

ministers were still cordial. Do you believe them, or have a squadron of

pigs just flown over the studio Of course it isn't cordial. No more

than what is going on in the Labour Party right now. There is this

debate going on. I have wanted a referendum for many years on this

issue. It is extraordinary that we have just had the Chancellor of the

Exchequer, who has supported the idea of the EU referendum, saying it

is catastrophic the dash it would be catastrophic. If one of the options

is catastrophic, how irresponsible to have it. In September, they were

saying, we haven't finished the negotiations yet and we don't know

which way we are going to go. He either lied then, or he is lying

now. Which is it? Has this not turned out to be more rancorous

even much more rancorous, than Mr Cameron and George Osborne ever

envisaged to three months ago. If you go back to the row we were

initially having in January about collective responsibility, which is,

will Cameron allow or not allow his cabinet to campaign for leave, and

he lost that one. But in May, using key had a point. Michael Gove, Boris

Johnson, big hitters doing immense damage to the Tory brand and to Tory

unity. Things bubbling up of late are the way that ministers like

Priti Patel going for issues like NHS funding. We can pay the NHS more

if we left the EU, which means we are not paying enough. That hits

right at the heart of government policies. The moment collective

responsibility ends, a spell that is cast over us that they all agree

with everybody about everything we never see it in the same way again.

In 75 with Harold Wilson - will you remember that? And never again they

say that Mr Benn and Mr Wilson and all those people were on the same

song sheet. He very clever Rees said an agreement to differ -- very

cleverly said. But it was the differing that stood out. We all

were two young! But Harold Wilson never played the prominent part in

the campaign that David Cameron has played. He kind of stood back from

it all. Very clever. But also, using the government's power, it has

turned nasty because of the way that the government's Remain side has

played it. And some of the ridiculous claims that have been

made. People come up to me all the time and say, wide you think this?

We want facts. People are crying out for the facts. The Chancellor saying

it is going to be catastrophic is absolute and utter nonsense. We know

that because the Prime Minister said last year himself that it wouldn't

be. Michael Gove said today that he wasn't bothered about being part of

the single market. Given that the economic debate is... If you look at

the private polling they are doing, the Remain side think they are

winning the economic argument. The Leave side think that they will win

on immigration, controlling borders and national sovereignty and so on.

To say that it doesn't matter if we are in the single market, even if

there is a price to pay, could come to haunt the Leave side. I think it

is an error. When in the Scottish referendum campaign, Alex Salmond

was fudging over the currency issue, the fact that he fudged it meant

that he could never say what would actually happen. I think a lot of

people will be bothered about being out of the single market, including

a lot of their natural supporters, and some business people. I think

they are losing the debate on the economy, and that will be more

pivotal in the end. The ordinary response to the Remain campaigners

about being in the single market is... If you seriously think that

BMW is going to go to Angela Merkel and say that they are happy to have

3% WTO tariffs to our biggest market in the UK, that is insane. Gordon

Brown has been brought out for the Remain campaign. He had an

intervention in the Scottish referendum. I wonder if it could be

a repeat for months, because I wonder how much Mr Brown resonates

south of the border? You would be tempted to think absolutely not

because Gordon Brown is still a hugely respected figure in Scotland,

perhaps less in England. But the key voters, the undecideds, art those

middle ranking people. Not those posh people or the people who have

made up their minds to leave. The public sector worker, perhaps,

middle ranking people. They could crucially play a row role in

organising -- galvanising Labour voters. How do you persuade them

enough to care? Referendums are dangerous for Prime Minister. They

produce wacky sequences. David Cameron was a king for Jeremy Corbyn

to do well when he was making a speech in support of staying in

That is what happens in referendums, you become desperate for your

previous enemies to survive and flourish. The Labour vote is

important. If that doesn't come out, it would be disastrous for Remain.

And people in favour of Brexit are going to be more keen to vote

because they feel more passionately. It is difficult to be passionate

about remaining in the EU. And those who are passionate about coming out

are quite eurosceptic. -- about staying in our quite eurosceptic. Mr

Cameron and Mr Osborne would put themselves in that category. The EU

is constantly being reformed. But not in the direction we want to And

the heads of MI5 and MI6 supported staying in this morning. George

Osborne wants to play the security card. Whether they are right or

wrong, I would suggest that security, in terms of fighting

terrorism and keeping our borders secure, is not something that

British people associate naturally with the EU. You are absolutely

right. The remainers started off thinking that security would be a

big catchphrase, but it hasn't worked. It is a score draw at best,

largely because migration has come to play in this security argument. A

former head of MI6 has said that it doesn't matter. Remain have got to

say something in this. The best they can hope for is, their best suit is

the economy, and leave immigration. That is the danger of the security

issue. If you bring up security you can quickly move on to immigration.

They can say, you cannot really be secure and less you can control our

borders. The moment you got on to immigration, it is highly emotive

and the doubters have got some - those who support out have got some

clout on this. As long as the economy is centre stage, and most

people assume that Remain are winning that argument, I think that

is as Sagna second as going back to 75. The polls show that they are

ahead on the economy. The 200 page Treasury document was predicated on

GDP, but actually it was predicated on an extra 3 million immigrants

coming to this country by 2030. We shall see

what happens in the next couple of months.

We'll be back at the same time, 11.00 next week.

You can watch the Daily Politics every day this week at noon.

Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.