17/07/2016 Sunday Politics London

Morning folks, and welcome to the Sunday Politics.

After Friday's failed coup, the crackdown in Turkey begins

with thousands of arrests and threats of retribution,

including the death penalty for rebels.

What does the turmoil mean for Turkey's future,

Nato and the fight against Islamic State?

I wish you all the best and I am supporting you all the way. Do I get

a hug? Jeremy Corbyn's confident

that his fans will ensure he's re-elected - but he tells us

that the rules of Labour's leadership election are unfair

and the party's national executive She was a "Remainer"

but Theresa May's promised to deliver on the voters' verdict

and take us out of the EU - but how quickly will Brexit come

and what should it look like? In London, with Labour in turmoil,

we're profiling the place with the largest party membership

in the UK. What's drawing people

to Labour in London? Since we broadcast last week,

a new Prime Minister, a new government, carnage in Nice

and an attempted coup in Turkey The unexpected is now

commonplace, major news events But one thing that doesn't change

here on Sunday mornings is that we always bring you the best

and the brightest political panel in the business -

Steve Richards, Isabel Oakeshott So Friday night's attempted army

coup in Turkey failed and President Erdogan has moved

ruthlessly to re-establish He says the coup was "a gift from

God" because it gives him a reason A major clampdown on dissent is now

widely anticipated, Let's get the latest

from our Correspondent Is it underway? Is it expected to be

pretty ruthless? Yes. It is underway. The crackdown has already

taken place. Around 3000 soldiers have been detained including

high-ranking generals and around 3000 judges have been dismissed from

their posts. Many judges have also been detained. President Recep

Tayyip Erdogan had already said that those behind the coup attempt would

be paying a heavy price and that is what we are seeing at the moment.

Many people think that the crackdown will further deepen. The government

thinks that the movement of Fethullah Gulen is behind this

attempt. That is something that Fethullah Gulen denies. He is a

cleric based in Pennsylvania, Annex aisle who used to be on good terms

with the government, and Mr Hird one himself. -- Mr Erdogan. Fethullah

Gulen has said he has been involved includes himself, but he played no

part in this one. Although the square would normally be packed with

hundreds of tourists, the beauty of Istanbul being celebrated, but last

night it was a different story, packed with hundreds of supporters

of the government, chanting slogans like, God is great, in protest of

the coup attempt. They adhered to the call coming from President

Erdogan to take it out to the streets. They were jubilant because

they felt empowered, in the part they played in suppressing the coup

attempt. If there was a source of resistance to President is Erdogan,

it was not the army, and I would suggest that he is going to take

over the army, and he will have complete control. He was already

pretty authoritarian before this happened. Is Turkey now in danger of

a dictatorship? That is a question that many people asked. In Turkey

and in the world. People who do not necessarily aligned themselves with

the government policies were already cautious about Mr Erdogan's

tendencies about getting more executive powers. It is no secret

that President Erdogan once to change the parliamentary system in

Turkey to a presidential system which would give him powers that no

other president has seen before in Turkey. And now that he has managed

to suppress this coup attempt, many people in Turkey fear that this

could actually play into the hands of Mr Hird one, and turn the country

into an alt. Chrissie, as you have said. -- way into the hands of Mr

Erdogan. But on the other hand, Mr Erdogan's supporters are jubilant

and they think that this was a victory of democracy. Yesterday the

Turkish parliament convened an extraordinary session and all the

opposition parties supported the government. The portrayed a stand

against the coup attempt. The Prime Minister thanked them and said that

this could be a threshold moment for Turkish politics but considering

that Turkey is a polarised country and politics is divided, whether the

government can bring everybody together after these 48 hours of

trauma, it is a difficult task. They give very much. -- thank you very

much. We're joined by the Foreign Affairs

analyst, Tim Marshall. Let's look back at what happened

here. The Turkish army, traditionally does not like Islamist

leaning governments and has mounted three successful coups, turning

Turkey to a more secular at two secular government. What was this, a

gang that could not shoot straight or the keystone cops to make a bit

of both. It was white, they did most of the right things but they did not

have the depth above them. Above them, they had no support. They made

two massive errors. They did not kill President Erdogan. That is the

first thing you should do. I am not advocating it! It is a 101 guide to

coups! But that is paragraph one, kill or at least capture the

president. And shut down the media. They went to the state television,

and in the 20th century, all the media was in one building and you

would close it down. But they forgot that in the 21st-century, there was

CNN Turkey still on a, and they did not close down social media, so Mr

Erdogan, who hates social media and Twitter, pepper and --

hypocritically gets onto Facebook and says to Turkey, get into the

streets and because the coup is white and not deep, very soon the

call to prayer goes out, and they know it is not the proper time, and

it means going to the street. Within half an hour, the people outnumber

the troops and the pendulum swings the other way. If Turkey faces a

serious clamp-down, a move from authoritarianism to something

bordering on dictator -- a dictatorship, this surely has huge

obligations for Turkey's relations with America and the EU? And for the

fight with Islamic State. This goes from being a domestic event to one

with regional and geopolitical implications. And a Nato member

It's funny, we talk about him all the time, but as your correspondent

said, this is a parliamentary republic, where traditionally the

president is simply a figurehead but because he is so dominant and has

total control of the HK party, all he had to do was switch from one job

to the next. And all the power went with him because of the atmosphere

at not because of the law. But he tried last year to move the powers

legally into his office. He is closing down the media, he is now

getting rid of the remnants in the Army that art not with him, and he

has the support of the mosques and parliament. It is becoming a

democratic dictatorship, a phrase I came up with for the loss of itch in

Serbia, you bring two new radio stations out that broadcast so

loudly that free speech is still allowed, but it cannot be heard

Remember the Civil War was the Kurds? That will just be utterly

ruthless. This is a hugely historic event in Turkey's history because

previous army coups have won and he will now take out the army as an

independent force and it will become much more authoritarian, perhaps

even autocratic. Where does this leave Western relations with Turkey?

I think we can agree that it is not going to join the European Union any

time soon so we can scotch that one. I think the ultimate dilemma must be

for Nato. It is a security organisation but it is also an

organisation defined by certain values and practices and if

President Erdogan responds to the coup attempt by tightening freedoms

further, by intervening against the judiciary and the Armed Forces

further, then there must be a dilemma at some stage for Nato. I

thought it might have been telling that three or four hours, I don t

know if Tim agrees, for the US at least, if not Nato, to say anything

about the coup, when they did they did not mention President Erdogan by

name. I don't know if that suggests they know what side there bread is

buttered on and they were waiting to see if the coup would succeed. But

it is a huge event for the West and Turkey. The state was founded on

secular ideals. The Armed Forces have always been seen as an

invigilator of government. I am right in saying that the Turkish

president has never been commander-in-chief, officially, in

the way that a US president would be. Or a French president. Many

people think that what he wants to do is create an executive style

French presidency. You would still have a parliament and a Prime

Minister but it would be the president that matters, rather than

just being head of state. Turkey has been so pivotal, first of all in

dealing with the migrant crisis in the eastern Mediterranean, with the

situation in Syria, and Islamic State, and in the region as a

regional superpower that balances Iran and even Saudi Arabia. We don't

know where this is going to lead now. And has been talk for a long

time about how it is massively in the interest of the West to have a

stable Turkey. It has not been stable for some time and it will not

be, even if this coup was a somewhat silly, ill thought through coup it

is clearly destabilising and will have consequences for a long time to

come. I would be interesting to -- I would be interested to hear from Tim

whether the EU has some leveraged because Turkey's desire to join it.

That dynamic, although clearly not the agenda in spite of the farcical

things said during the referendum campaign, that gives the EU some

leveraged in reshaping what happens in Turkey. You wonder if that is

even on his mind. It will not be. But the president has so many

domestic fish to fry, and that might not be a very good metaphor given

what he is about to do. If he is about to reintroduce the death

penalty, it becomes very difficult to talk about Turkey being part of

the EU. What do our diplomats do? It is in our interest to encourage the

dreamer but it does not look compatible with the way that things

are being carried out. Remarkably, these events in Gneiss had been

overshadowed by Turkey and yet it only happened on Thursday night and

this is Sunday morning. I suggest that the reaction in France to Nice

is going to be very different. Charlie Hebdo, the Bataclan, there

was great solidarity and it brought France together. I think this is

different because people have had enough and it is different because

there are clear security questions. No barrier on the promenade. We are

told that there was a barrier when the military parades took place but

it was removed after words, and already the politicians are ganging

up on the government and this is becoming a major pre-election issue.

That's right. The election is next year and Marine Le Pen is

positioning herself very strongly with the National Front. There is a

public divided on how to approach it and even if this is not Islamic

State, and I am not convinced that it is, it happens in the context of

Islamic State and of mass slaughter in the name of something. It is

another chip away at our freedoms. And that is, in itself, a success.

They are going to continue. I believe the rise of the right is far

from Peking. And it plays absolutely into next year's presidential

election. Going back from the presidential election, that all

comes into what the EU is going to look like. We are in a state of

flux. You are old enough, forgive me, Andrew, to know that everybody

always says it has never been as bad as now and it is always untrue. But

it is actually more corrugated than I have ever known it. And you may

agree. I do agree. The Conservatives completed

their leadership contest in a matter of days,

Labour's has barely begun. There are now two candidates

standing against Jeremy Corbyn Angela Eagle and Owen Smith -

but the Labour Leader has told us that the rules which exclude

recently signed up members from voting in the contest

are unfair and he wants the party's national executive

to change them. Adam Fleming went for a walk

in the park with Mr Corbyn. This is the lake that was built

here in the 19th century, rather strange lake on the top

of the hill. I went for a stroll

round the Labour leader's favourite local beauty spot -

Finsbury Park in north London. Do you have time to take a casual

stroll with a journalist Yes, because doing things

in a relaxed way is important, and doing other things is important,

so going to a park, being in your However busy I am, my

allotment is tended. It's in good order, we had a good

crop of broad beans and we ate A slightly less relaxing

part of his week. At a meeting of Labour's national

executive on Tuesday, Jeremy Corbyn secured an automatic

place in the leadership election. But he's not happy with new rules

that say people who joined the party There's going to be some quite

intense discussions over the next few days, I suspect,

and I hope our party officials and National Executive will see

sense on this and recognise that those people who have freely

given their time and money to join the Labour Party should be welcomed

in and given the opportunity to take part in this crucial debate,

whichever way they decide to vote. I'm hoping there will be

an understanding that it is simply not very fair to say to people that

joined the party in the last six months, "sorry, your participation

is no longer welcome because we are having

a leadership contest." In the next few days,

various Labour factions will be racing to sign people up

as registered supporters, It costs ?25, not ?3

like in the last contest. For people who can't afford the 25

quid, what would you suggest If they can't afford the ?25,

what they do? It seems to me the ?25 bar is quite

high and not really reasonable. A lot of people have said to me

people stop me in the street saying, "I would love to vote in this

election but I can't afford ?25 " He is also disappointed that

virtually all local party meetings have been suspended over

fears of intimidation. I haven't stopped party meetings

taking place and I actually I think party meetings

should take place. Intimidation of any sort by anybody

is absolutely wrong, but to cancel meetings

because of the perception that intimidation might take place

I think is a big mistake. The issues appear to be that

where meetings have taken place far more people have attended

than were expected and so there has been issues about how people

can get in the room, whereas there's a fairly

simple answer to that - Talking of meetings,

who was he with when Theresa May was taking over as Prime Minister

earlier this week? I was with an all-party group,

including Conservatives, talking to two of the Miami five

who had been in prison in Miami and were released

by the court decisions of USA and the new rapprochement with Cuba

and actually welcoming the fact there had been an agreement

reached in Cuba. I was actually with Conservatives

and Labour people. I was there for about 20 minutes,

then I went back to my office And so you felt that was a good use

of your time at that point when the country was transitioning

from one Prime Minister to another? Informing yourself by listening

to people from all kinds of walks This morning I was on the phone

to friends in Istanbul and Ankara And so when an issue happens

anywhere in the world, obviously I read all the briefings

that I've been given, obviously I follow the news

and information, but also I quite often know people in different

places around the world so I call Can I get a hug

for that? He also seems to know a lot

of people in this park. What do you think about

Angela Eagle and Owen Smith I have been trying to unregister

from the Green Party so that I can register with the Labour Party

so that I can support you. We were walking round

with Jeremy Corbyn, What did you shout

out when you saw him? I don't know what I said,

something awful like... Something like "you've

ruined the Labour Party". Something like, "step aside and stop

ruining the Labour Party," I guess. And I couldn't let Jeremy go

without introducing him to the craze sweeping the nation,

Pokemon Go. He didn't seem that bothered

but then he's playing a much bigger game, trying to hold onto his job,

and that's no walk in the park. Our work this morning has not

been in vain. And a longer version of that

interview with Jeremy Corbyn We're joined now from Salford

though by the Shadow Education Secretary,

Angela Rayner. Welcome to the programme. Jeremy

Corbyn wants to allow people who joined in the last six months of

your party to vote, he thinks the ?25 fee is too high. Isn't it just

typical of the chaos Labour is now in that you are holding a leadership

contest before you have agreed rules? Good morning, I think it s

important we recognise the Labour Party is transformed with now over

half a million members joined, which is fantastic. We are the largest

democratic social party across Europe. For me it is about

democracy. I asked about the rules, should you be having a contest

before you have agreed rules? The rules were decided at the NEC

meeting which lasted seven hours, quite a lengthy marathon... You want

to change them? People need to reflect upon the current situation

and there has been outrage. 130 000 people have joined since the

referendum, and we have got to give them the opportunity to have their

voice heard. Have these 130,000 that joined after the referendum been

properly vetted? That is a situation that the NEC and our party has got

to approve and go through. We did it last time, we had a huge number of

people join our party recently. Have that number been vetted or not? You

have got to allow democracy. What we do is we ensure we get more people,

more staff, more ability to deal with that issue because democracy is

important, it is enshrined. Hold on, you are starting the leadership

campaign and you still haven't vetted those who may be allowed to

vote, that's what I mean by chaos, if not fast. I don't think it's

chaotic to have over half a million people join our party and want to

have a say, it is a positive step. It is if you cannot vet them come

you don't know if they are members of the Socialist workers party, the

Greens, the Communists, the National front, the Conservatives. You have

no idea. We have 130,000 people who have joined in the last three weeks,

which the Conservative Party have around 150,000 members per se. We

have over half a million members so we are doing a great job. The

Trotskyists and other groups you are suggesting may be trying to join our

party, they are not in the great numbers we see at the moment. It is

important to give people a say about the future of our country and party.

I love democracy. Will you definitely be voting for Mr Corbyn

this time because you didn't last time. No, I supported Andy Burnham

last time, but I recognise Jeremy Corbyn had a significant mandate to

lead our party. I don't think it's time to have a leadership contest. I

will not be nominating another candidate, I will be recognising our

democratically elected leader. I asked who you will be voting for. I

will be supporting -- our democratically elected leader. Can

you say the words, I will vote for Jeremy Corbyn? I have made it clear

what my position is, and that's about democracy and our members

making... Are you or aren't you I have told you I will be supporting

our democratically elected leader of our party. I want to hold the

Government to account, we have a bill coming up on Tuesday... I'm

puzzled, are you voting for Mr Corbyn? Your viewers want to see us

holding this Government to account. I have tried to answer your question

but you don't want to listen to my answer. Could you name the person

you will be voting for in this election? I will be listening to our

membership and in the meantime holding the Government to account

and supporting our democratically elected leader of our party, which

is Jeremy Corbyn. A new poll shows Theresa May leads Jeremy Corbyn 58%

to 19, on who would make the better Prime Minister. It shows 40% of

Labour voters think Theresa May would make a better Prime Minister.

Why are you backing, if you are I'm still not clear, why are you backing

a loser? Our party is seen as quite divided and divided parties never

win elections. We don't disagree on policy points, we have to get our

policy points across to the electorate and then they will

decide. Theresa May has the challenge of bringing her

Conservative Party together. There was no competition, no democracy

within the Conservative Party in terms of who they wanted as leader.

She has a job to do because the country has never been more divided

than it is now and that's directly as a result of the Conservatives.

You all seem to have a job to do. Speaking of Mrs May, is the Labour

Party now the nasty party? No, Theresa May had it right, the

Conservatives continue to be so They are cutting education funding

by up to 8% in this Parliament, they want to prioritise the NHS and have

already been creeping that in. They are not on the side of ordinary

people in this country. Theresa May has said she wants the Conservatives

to be a party for everybody and working people across the country.

Now her words have to be matched by actions. Let me ask you this about

Labour. Meetings of constituency Labour parties have been suspended

from fear of intimidation. There are death threats and violence, a brick

thrown through the window of the office block where Angela Eagle s

constituency is housed. Police have had to investigate. I ask again is

it not Labour that is the nasty party? I think any act of abuse and

intimidation is disgusting in politics and many politicians from

all sides of the house have had death threats and threats of

violence, and that has got to be stamped out of a modern democracy.

Why is it in the Labour Party this is happening? It happens across the

spectrum in politics and it is disgusting. But it cannot stop

democracy either, we have got to continue to uphold and enshrined our

democracy in everything we do because it is important. It means a

lot to a lot of people but you cannot win on democracy by abusing,

threatening and intimidating the other side of the argument. You have

got to have a constructive debate and people have got to have their

democratic right to vote. Thanks for being with us this morning.

Now, despite signing up to David Cameron's Remain strategy,

our new Prime Minister has put navigating the UK's departure

from the EU and retaining the union at the centre

We're joined now by the Conservative MP and former attorney-general

The appointment of three key Cabinet positions to Brexiteers - Boris

Johnson, David Davis, and Liam Fox - reflects this.

A few days before his appointment, the Brexit Secretary set

out how he'd proceed with separation from the EU.

He said triggering new trade talks were a

priority and wanted the UK to negotiate free-trade deals with

Mr Davis believes the UK should not budge on control of our borders but

the tariff-free access to the EU single market is still his preferred

The Brexit Secretary acknowledged that talks with the

Scottish, Welsh, and Northern Ireland governments

And Theresa May made the first step on Thursday, telling

Nicola Sturgeon in Edinburgh that she is willing to listen

to options on Scotland's future relationship

Mrs May said Britain would not rush into

Brexit negotiations and would need some time to prepare.

However, Mr Davis said Article 50 should be

and mean Britain would be out of the EU by January

We're joined now by the Conservative MP and former attorney-general

Dominic Grieve, who campaigned for Remain, and the Labour MP

who chaired the Vote Leave campaign, Gisela Stewart.

We are joined by Dominic Grieve and the chairman of the boat Leave

campaign, Gisela Stuart. -- Vote Leave. As Theresa May delivered I

think she has. I think it was important that you made clear that

Brexit meant Brexit. We had to make a clear that there was no second

referendum in the offering. That required certainty for the country.

Are you satisfied with that? I am completely satisfied with her

approach, yes. It is clear that the vote, as expressed in the

referendum, has to be respected We have to take forward a programme for

removing the United Kingdom from the EU. Really that is going to be an

immensely comported process and it also carries with it economic risks,

certainly in the short to medium term. I am also open-minded as to

how one best does that. I think we're going to have to respond to

events as well as trying to shape them. We have seen a blueprint

published by my friend and colleague, David Davis, about

Britain's outside the EU. I expect that 99.9% of conservatives would

subscribe to that but getting to it is more congregated. We need to

unpick this bit by bit. When do we trigger article 50? You need to go

in reverse, like a reverse accession process. The most important thing is

trade negotiations. As I understand that you cannot have a bilateral

agreement unless you have notified Article 50. But you must have some

idea of the time? The sooner the better. When do you think we should

trigger article 50. I think we should trigger at when there is some

clarity as to what the scope of the negotiations that will follow will

be. This is the first big hurdle. Clearly if our European partners do

not want to negotiate with us at all, even informally, prior to

triggering Article 50, that might presents difficulties but from the

point of view of the Prime Minister, she will make up her own mind.

Actually getting some clear idea of what it is that the United Kingdom

is seeking in terms of a future relationship is going to very

important. And I think it is impossible to give a particular time

frame. But I agree with Gisela Stuart. But the time frame has to

work and it has to be done in good time for the 2020 election, so you

can work back from that. I think you can, but I think that she needs the

Prime Minister needs to be given maximum flexibility about this

because boxing herself in to how she goes about what is going to be one

of the most difficult political transformations this country has

gone through in modern times, I think that requires pragmatism. Does

it require a vote of Parliament to trigger Article 50? Not necessarily.

Let's come back to something. This is not just about our relationship

with the EU, it is our relationship with the rest of the world.

Triggering Article 50 has also been interpreted into how we talk with

other countries. But we can talk with them without concluding deals?

But in terms of negotiations, there comes a point that to make it

meaningful, you have to trigger it. But I want to ask you, do we need a

vote in parliament to trigger Article 50? Undoubtedly. It is a

matter of convention. The idea that a government could take a decision

of such massive importance to the United Kingdom without Parliamentary

approval, it seems to me to be extremely far-fetched. It is not

about law. It is about convention and reality. Do you agree? I can see

the arguments from both sides but I don't think you absolutely have to

do it. We have not got a lot of time, would you vote for triggering

Article 50? Yes. I have made it quite clear that the result of the

referendum must mean that we have to be willing to embark on the process.

I put in one rider to that which is that it seems to me that any

sensible decision has to be made at the time you make it. But that is

not a suggestion that I am going to suddenly decide not to support

triggering Article 50, but triggering Article 50 is an

important political step to withdraw from the EU. One has to keep that in

mind. Do you worry that people like Dominic Grieve are teeing themselves

up to call for a second referendum on the nature of the deal we will

do? I do. I think if there is one thing the European Union is very

good at, it is that when political necessity is in the interest of both

sides, they are capable of rewriting the rules. So the European Union

itself has to look at the problems it faces, and then at what the best

deal is. There is a danger that those who do not like the outcome of

the referendum get themselves hooked on Article 50, rather than saying

that there is a new reality out there and we need to deal with that

in the interests of the United Kingdom. If you could bring it

about, you would have a second referendum, wouldn't you? Not

necessarily. The justification for having a second referendum is if the

circumstances that prevail at the time and justify it because there is

some legitimate question to put to the electorate. I am very wary of

circumscribing oneself. The referendum is no different from the

general election in this sense. It is a statement at the time of what

people want in terms of the way policy is taken forward. If people's

opinions change, it would be extraordinary. And I think the only

way you can judge that is by looking and listening to what people are

saying to you. Opinion polls can measure it. Like the opinion polls

that told you your site was going to win the referendum? I am not sure I

ever believe those polls. But they did. If you take a decision on the

base of those polls... But what is the question that one might be

asking. What the public have asked us to do is quite clear. They have

given, by a majority of 1.2 million people, not insubstantial, they have

said they want a fundamental change to the UK's relationship with the EU

and they see that relationship as being one where we are outside of

it. I have to respect that. And we have not got much time so I am going

to interrupt. You have had a good save. Gisela Stuart, here is the

point. There is a lot of people on the Labour side listening to Dominic

Grieve and nodding their heads. Owen Smith, one of the leadership

contenders, he basically wants a second referendum, and you are going

to have to start gearing up for that. Do you fear that this could be

foisted upon you? I think it would be a disastrous step because both

political parties need to search why they were so out of step with the

electorate, particularly the Labour Party. It is a Parliamentary

democracy were we get elected to do a job and that is to either hold the

government to account or to be the government. We have asked them and

they have reflected, in large numbers, they have said that we want

to leave. And they expect us to get on with the job. I am sorry to rush

you but we have been short of time. It's just gone 11.35,

you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers

in Scotland and Wales, who leave us now for Sunday Politics Scotland

and Sunday Politics Wales. Coming up here in 20

minutes, the Week Ahead. First though, the Sunday

Politics where you are. What can we learn about Labour's

current turmoil from the membership Mike Gapes, Labour MP

for Ilford South, is here And alongside him, Mike Freer,

Conservative MP for First off - with Theresa

May's Cabinet in place, can we divine anything much yet

about what the capital might expect? The in tray marked "London" awaiting

a new Prime Minister is already Airport expansion in the south-east

predominates with the seemingly never-ending delay over a decision

on the third runway at Heathrow Perhaps significantly,

whilst in opposition, Theresa May predicted that a third

runway would result in additional flights, increased noise and more

pollution, insisting the country needed a better Heathrow,

not a bigger Heathrow. And recently elevated Cabinet

colleagues Justine Greening, MP for Putney, and Boris Johnson,

MP for Oxbridge and South Ruislip, are both vehemently opposed

to a third runway. Rail and the ongoing dispute

between Southern and unions are still causing severe transport

disruption, with passengers One way of sorting it out

would be handing it over to Transport for London,

get the Mayor to run it, given that the Mayor's railways tend

to be rather more popular The former Home Secretary's imprint

on policing in the capital will be keenly watched,

and the terrible events in Nice this week brought further scrutiny

on the capital's state of preparedness to deal

with future terrorist attacks. Theresa May will have to work

closely with Sadiq Khan about the policing of London

because you can't get away from the fact that a big city

like London is always With the make-up of the new Cabinet

overwhelmingly southern, it will be interesting to see

whether the Government will make additional efforts support the north

or focus attention What a good starting off point. This

sense of southern axis, to the Cabinet. What do you might say about

the priorities they might have? I think it is right that London has a

strong voice. We continue to be the engine of the UK economy. And the

fact that we have some strong voices around the Cabinet can only be good

for the south-east. But Theresa May has said that she is not going to,

she wants to ensure that the whole of the UK benefits from government.

I think we will see a balanced approach but clearly things like

Crossrail and Heathrow will be high on the agenda for the transport

department. Almost implying there that there is a danger that you

overcompensate, because you might be perceived as to Sutherland, which

could have an adverse effect. I think Theresa May is too clever to

overcompensate. She will make sure there is a balanced approach. We

have the northern powerhouse policy, which will continue. But in terms of

the issue facing the transport infrastructure in the south-east,

that has already been signed off to a large degree. They have to go

through a formal process, and I hope they come to a decision soon. I

think I saw you raising an eyebrow about the northern powerhouse. Some

of my colleagues from the northern England is questioning, who is the

northern powerhouse minister and is it anything more than a George

Osborne slogan? Will it continue? It is not clear yet. What do you make

of Theresa May's elevation and the Cabinet two I predicted weeks ago

that it would be Theresa May. I thought she would beat Michael Gove

in a run-off. If you have to have a Conservative Prime Minister, I would

rather have one who is competent and experienced and can try to deal with

the crises that the country faces. I am also pleased that we have someone

who voted to remain as Prime Minister, and therefore will try to

bring the country together rather than being very divisive and

controversial. Does she worry you in any respect, in terms of policing

our immigration, things she has done before? She was the Home Secretary

who scent they go home vans down Guildford high road in my

constituency and gimmicks like that are not to be continued. Do you feel

like her tenure in the Home Office is going to put her slightly out of

step with the instinctive, pro immigration stance that we have in

London? I have always found her very open to persuasion. If you present a

strong argument, I find that she listens. In terms of the issues

facing her, having Theresa May, who has been a successful Home Secretary

on policing, in the driving seat... She is going to know they met inside

and out. She knows all of our security issues. -- the Are met

Having heard in the driving seat is very reassuring, given what is going

on in the world. You mentioned Heathrow, where are we there? Do you

know what her position is currently? Do you know what Philip Hammond s

opinion is currently? I have never discussed those issues with either

of them. What would you like them to do? I supported HS2 and Heathrow and

Crossrail. I think we have to continue to play catch up with our

European colleagues in terms of infrastructure investment. If we are

to ensure that economic growth continues across the UK, the

northern powerhouse might be more broadly based than it was under

George Osborne but I think it still will be delivering infrastructure

and growth. And the case for expanding Heathrow, does that become

greater because of the Brexit decision? If you look at the outside

of the EU, the case for Heathrow is stronger. I also have no problem

with Gatwick expanding. In terms of our major hub airport, with the

international links, that is Heathrow and it is becoming

increasingly important in our non-EU trade deals. But with Theresa May,

in a constituency just outside London, and Philip Hammond, both of

them have expressed concerns before about the effect of the congestion.

Boris Johnson, as we know, in Oxbridge, a long-term opponent.

Justine Greening. Do you think that is spelling out the end of the

notion of a third runway? There's a big difference between

those who have expressed opposition and those who have expressed

concerns. Round the Cabinet table they will have to do what is best

for the national interest and that is what they are doing round the

Cabinet, is not their constituency interests so I trust them to make

the right decision for the UK, to expand Heathrow. Would you be

confident of that? I hope so. We have Crossrail coming in, halving

the journey time to Heathrow. Frankly Gatwick is a difficult place

to get to if you are in the north. You are in favour of expanding

Heathrow? I am indeed. Do you think it might be an opportunity for her

to stump her mark on taking that decision? The key problem is this

has dragged on so long, a decision has got to be taken, and I think

there are real risks if you weaken the existing hub airport, and people

in the north of England, Scotland, are all in favour of Heathrow. We

have got to think of the national interest, not the constituencies

under the flight path. Let's move on.

It may seem to many as if Labour is locked in a struggle

But in parts of London, the party has never been stronger.

Take Hornsey and Wood Green which is the largest constituency

Scores of new members are signing up every day.

Andrew Cryan reports on what's going right.

In north-east London lies the constituency

of Hornsey and Wood Green, now thought to be the largest

Labour Party anywhere in the country,

So, a decade ago, there were 1, 00 members, there are now 4,500,

a quarter of who joined just since the referendum.

Where I'm standing at the moment is Stroud Green ward,

where an amazing one in ten people on the electoral register is now

If you want to know why, there's probably a clue in the fact

that just over the boundary there is Islington North,

Put it another way, this is Corbyn country.

It's a part of the world with a certain spread of politics,

one that, according to this local councillor, doesn't

We saw that, that really came to a head in the EU referendum.

Here in Crouch End we had 80% of people voting to remain.

We woke up the day after that feeling quite shocked at the way

We have got a leadership that is quite divorced

The Parliamentary party that is divorced from

And a membership of the party that, as you say, is somewhat

Don't assume the local party is just a hotbed of Corbynistas.

Constituency chairman Steve Hart is a veteran trade unionist.

He is undecided on who to support in the leadership, but unlike other

parts of the country, the internal debates

Round here I think we operate fairly, democratically,

respectfully, overwhelmingly, but I've seen the temperature rise.

E-mails to me and to the secretary of the constituency that

are frankly way over the top, and people getting very hot under

the collar, making accusations that are beyond reasonable.

We can handle it round here but I am... well, so far.

But there has been a little local difficulty, which was all due

an airing at the party's general meeting this Tuesday,

Labour's governing body, the NEC, has suspended all such meetings

At that meeting, there was due to be a showdown -

a candidate from the Corbyn-supporting group Momentum

was standing to be chairman of the local party.

In effect, take over the control of running Hornsey

Liam McNulty is the Momentum man making the challenge.

He took us to a local cafe and explained why he was doing it.

People on the local council might want to listen to this bit.

We need to bring in all these new members who have

There is good work being done in that, we need to continue that

but also we need to work with our colleagues in Tottenham CLP

as well, and make sure that what the local council is doing

and Haringey Council is brought under the democratic

But the Momentum grouping are yet to completely win the love

of local MP Catherine West, who was one of the few members

of Parliament who didn't rebel against Jeremy Corbyn.

The members who have joined the Labour Party recently

There is an associated group which is a Momentum group,

I don't really believe in groups within groups.

I think we should be in the Labour Party,

and so I think perhaps if you ask other Momentum groups etc,

there may have been meetings and things but the important thing

is the actual Labour Party Hornsey in Wood Green is very strong,

it's very large, it's a very open and courteous party.

But one thing that does unite almost everyone we spoke to here locally,

a strong desire to stop the party splitting, regardless of the outcome

But then again, this is no ordinary local party.

Joining me, journalist and author Rachel Shabi.

Why are people joining? Who are they? What are their motivations for

joining Labour at the moment? We are told it is in crisis. It's an

important point to make that we don't have to agree with it or like

it, but it seems Jeremy Corbyn has been a catalyst and galvanise for a

resurgence of the left, partly to do with his anti-austerity politics,

partly to do with his style. Is this another wave happening here? This is

what it looks like when you give people hope and optimism and faith

in a party political system, assist in which they haven't had faith or

hope and have been actively disconnected from Anderson

franchised from for so long. What we seeing is a resurgence. --

disenfranchised from. The local MP was saying she thinks it is people

joining Labour but they are not necessarily from the left, as in

Momentum, but from across the board, is that true? I think it is. It s

quite dismissive of Momentum and the fresh Labour intake to describe them

as Trotskyists or militants, actually they are fairly ordinary

people from across-the-board. Many haven't been engaged in politics

ever. Many of them are former Labour supporters who were disenfranchised

by New Labour politics and are now coming back, but this is a broad

spectrum of people and to dismiss them as fringe is not understanding

what is happening in politics I think. Even if Labour is gaining

huge increases in membership in London, that is not going to win

them the seats they need in the north of England or the Midlands.

What about this sense or danger of rather metropolitan London bias

which is not speaking to the heartlands where Ukip has been

speaking? Firstly I think it is happening nationwide. Certainly

Labour constituents from across the country are speaking of this kind of

resurgence, but it is important to remember these are the people after

all, these are the campaigning backbone of any party, these are the

people that campaign, these are the people that persuade voters across

the country. There is no reason to dismiss that capacity and power

that is actually a significant thing. When we are told daily of

people's disaffection and removal from the political process, here you

have Labour seeing this great increase in membership, it is

something to be welcomed, isn't it? I certainly welcome Labour Party

supporters joining, but last year we found significant numbers of Green

Party, even Tory and Lib Dem and Ukip nominators for local elections

who had come in and that's why there was a compliance unit, to make sure

there wasn't infiltration. There is no suggestion of that now, this is

genuine. I have no idea because we don't have the data of the people

joining. I suspect large numbers are young people, some have previously

been members, they were members when Tony Blair was leader. But being

attracted by your party at this time, you must welcome this.

Possibly. And there are an organised group coming in from Trotskyists and

others. The Menton are not just ordinary members, the people at the

core of that are people who include non-Labour Party people and they are

running a campaign to try to deselect Labour MPs in a number of

constituencies. We have got a mixed picture here and we have no idea

what the politics of the new members are, and I suspect many are joining

also because they want a credible leadership that can take on the

Conservatives if there is an early general election. Jeremy Corbyn said

he thinks it is not done and dusted, the sense of who will vote, he wants

the NEC to look again. He seems to be happy the NEC put him on the

ballot, he cannot pick and choose. Are you talking about a legal

challenge? No, the NEC might look at these rules. That is a matter for

the NEC but ultimately they are the guardian of the rules and the whole

process is decided by the NEC. There is an open window to become

registered over the next few days. ?25? Jeremy Corbyn thinks that is a

lot. That is the decision the NEC have taken. What do you make of the

opposition party? Does it worry you that we have a party on the move in

terms of its membership, albeit what the press are saying about the

Labour situation at the moment? I want to see a strong opposition not

having opposition holding us to account is not good for government.

It might be fun for a short period of time but we need the opposition

to get their act together so we can have a proper functioning

parliament. In terms of the new membership, if people are joining in

their tens of thousands for genuine policy debate, that should be

welcomed. Engagement is good. If desired effect is the abuse and

anti-Semitism, that's not good and it needs to be weeded out. A couple

of points, have you been concerned about some of the tone, intimidation

and so on, but answer this, why are people joining a party which the

media is saying is not electable? I think it is a really serious issue,

the abuse is completely disgusting and unacceptable. We know that it is

most often targeted, but it is important we tackle this together.

We don't say it is the fault of the extreme left, actually a lot of this

is coming from the far right. We need to tackle this together and it

is not helpful to single out a particular group of any party and

say, it is your fault, you fix it, it is happening collectively and we

need to deal with it collectively. Why are people joining a party whose

leader apparently is so unelectable? Because they don't believe in the

media definitions of electability. The decades people have been

disenfranchised by politics, that have neglected them and scorned

them, caused huge inequalities in wealth, huge economic hardship that

people struggle with everyday so when that same media that has sold

those parties to them starts to talk about electability, it obviously has

no credibility. Good to see you thanks for coming in.

Now for the rest of the news in 60 seconds.

London Mayor Sadiq Khan has pledged ?400,000 to tackle the growing

problems of knife crime and youth violence.

Four teenagers have been stabbed to death since January,

while there were 12 teenage deaths and 291 serious injuries from knife

The Mayor urged hospital staff to report all knife

Oxford Street will be pedestrianised by 2020.

All traffic, including buses and taxis, will be banned

from the shopping street as part of Sadiq Khan's plans

City Hall said the project would be rolled out in two stages to reduce

More than 4 million people visit Oxford Street every week.

And the previous London mayor, Boris Johnson, has been

In his former role, he travelled the world selling London,

but managed to cause some consternation with his ability

Briefly, the former Mayor of London now in the Foreign Office. Looking

at his record when he was the Mayor of London, he was very good at it so

I think people should not make the mistake that he a buffoon and I

think he will step up to the job. How long can this go on? I am on the

foreign affairs select committee so we will be interviewing him closely.

We have Philip Hammond last week so I have no doubt we will have Boris

Johnson soon. I think there's a problem because of the public

statements he made about watermelon smiles and his comments... Perhaps

he will explain them to you and make the point they are not racist. If a

foreign government wants to take offence, and it has an issue where

it wants to be difficult, then the first question they will ask is

Foreign Secretary, you said the following about our country, and put

him on the back foot. Do you think that will have a serious impact I

think hopefully he will be much more serious in his negotiating style and

of course we have excellent diplomats in the Foreign Office we

have experienced people around him who will give him, hopefully, a

message that is more acceptable to the countries. Which is why this is

an extraordinary opportunity for him and many people think he will rise

to it, and an incredibly interesting decision from Theresa May. This is

where he will show himself to be a grown-up politician and I don't

think he will waste that opportunity. Has he got the

gravitas? You have met him many times, you know the size of his

brain, he's a very clever man. He will have to drop the clowning

around and be a serious politician and I have no doubt that's what he

will do. Thank you. To bring you up-to-date on the

developing situation in Turkey, it looks like they have detained 6 00

people, the numbers have shot up since we came on a, following

Friday's coup attempt. The cleansing operation is continuing, says the

Justice minister in Turkey. In a television interview, some 6000

detentions have taken place and the number could surpass 6000. I think

most of us expected that it will. Now, earlier, the two Labour MPs

challenging Jeremy Corbyn for the leadership of the Labour

Party were on the Andrew Marr show. Let's have a listen

to what they had to say. How do you decide between

the two of you who is more How do you resolve this question

over which of you goes forward? We have got a nominations process,

I think it is very clear. So whoever gets the more

nominations... That is one way which we could do

it, or we could make an agreement between ourselves, but my

view is that whoever commands the largest degree

of support in the PLP is the unity candidate and that s

the person who should go forward I think we have to have the person

that is most likely to beat Jeremy Corbyn,

and I think that's me. Right, so you're not standing aside

under any circumstances. Granita Restaurant is still

open you know! We're not going to do

a deal here on your sofa, Steve, Angela Eagle seemed a little

uncomfortable they are talking about the need for their only to be one

candidate. Will we proceed with two Norman Corbynistas? Or will we

whittle down? She is uncomfortable because she wanted to be her and

left still think there will be enormous pressure from Labour MPs to

only go forward with one. The purpose of this is to get rid of

Jeremy Corbyn and if you split the vote from the beginning, this mad

dysfunctional sequence, that will lessen the possibility, which is

already pretty limited, of them removing him. So I imagine there

will be pressure this week for it to be down to one, but who knows

whether they will agree to that those two sitting on the sofa early

this morning. As someone who lives and breathes the British party

politics, among others, if anyone was to ask me this morning, what is

the franchise that will choose the next Labour leader, I could not

answer that question. Can you? I think Angela Eagle, on this show

last week, could not answer it. They asked onto themselves about the

central party machine. We are all right, but the burden is on them and

they cannot do it. I imagine Jeremy Corbyn's ultimate advantage in this

contest is the relative obscurity of the challengers. Angela Eagle and

all and Smith have a lot going for them but this is not Blair and

Brown, they are second-tier politicians. He can justifiably say,

ten months on from a commanding mandate, do either one of these two

justify a huge shift in the vote? And I do not think they do. If he

was to win, the Labour moderates will do their best to defeat him but

if he was to win for the second time in a year, surely the game is up? I

understand that it is a tribal party scarred by memories of the SDP, but

surely a second victory for Corbyn will justify a resignation of the

whip, by a large number of Labour MPs and at least an attempt to

become a different kind of centre-left party. That would be a

schism, and a broader one than when the social Democrats were formed

against Michael Foot's Labour Party. I would agree with what they both

said on that. I think it is remarkable how quiet the more

prominent figures of the moderates are. It is left to Angela Eagle and

Owen Smith, second-tier politicians that most people will not have heard

of. What has happened to people like Jack Carmona, people with more

recognisability, particularly in London? They seem to be sitting it

out. -- Chuka Umunna. I think moderate MPs, we will see a lot of

younger MPs are leaving politics for a few years. Whether they choose to

trigger by-elections is another question but I don't think that many

of those who have come into politics will want to see this through for

another few years. If Mr Corbyn is re-elected and I guess he must be

favourite, Owen Smith said that he would show loyalty to whoever wins

this morning, but will most of the 80% of Labour MPs who have no

confidence, will they buckle down and be prepared to serve in a Corbyn

Cabinet? No. I am doing a thing on Radio 4, the next one is tomorrow

night, I think about Corbyn's first year, and if you stand back from the

chaos, two things are obvious. Jeremy Corbyn cannot continue

reading with this current set of MPs, hence the talk selections and

the rest of it. These MPs cannot carry on serving under Jeremy

Corbyn. Those things are strikingly obvious. -- the talk of

deselections. When you chronicle what has happened, those two things

stand. It Jeremy Corbyn carried on bleeding, he will need another set

of MPs, and the current set will have to go in a different direction.

Nothing else is feasible. And none of that can happen this side of

2020, meaning they will all have to be deselected. That would mean that

Labour would go in on the basis that there is not, they would go in in a

state of civil war to the election cycle. No, you would have a separate

Parliamentary party forming. And what is interesting for the people I

have spoken to, the bigger Parliamentary party would become the

opposition. The main opposition So whoever let that, it would go with

that. But who keeps the Labour brands? As others have said, whether

you have the people around big enough to navigate these hurdles is

a huge question. There are big figures who were around in the late

70s and early 80s in the Labour Party, another symptom of

dysfunction is the lack of these big figures, that are no longer around.

There is a fight for the soul of the Labour Party going on and were some

adverts that appeared in the paper this morning. I think we can have a

look at one. 48 hours to save labour. Saving labour is the

hashtag. I think this is from the non-Corbynista part. Do you know who

is behind this? There was a sort of attempt, it is now ?25 to sign up.

And you have to days to do that There was an attempt to get people

to sign up to join the Labour Party and vote but that has now been

rendered invalid by this convoluted set of rules were people who join

from February or something cannot now vote. Even you don't know and

you have just made a documentary! I don't know if anyone was listening!

But I think there will be an attempt to get as many... If Jeremy Corbyn

wins, they will not have another leadership contest. Either they have

to buckle under or... Or they decide to back him or do something else.

But not another leadership contest, surely. You would've thought by now,

in terms of joining, that we had reached peak Trot, that there are

not any more Trots out there. But are the run-off moderate Labour

supporters out there are? I have seen them during moderate Labour

supporters to come in. Are the run-off to make a difference? We may

not have reached peak Trot. Getting moderates to sign up, that has

always been a project talked about within the Labour Party ever since

Corbyn emerged. The reason it is difficult is that by definition if

you are a political moderate, you particularly engaged to join and pay

?25? People of moderate views are often defined by being indifferent

to the process. Are they not all in Tuscany? In 20 seconds, he energised

more than the so-called hard left last summer because there were a

range of people going to rallies, some drawn into politics for the

first time. Lots of young people. And so it is a wider appeal, but it

is one that Labour MPs will not sign up to and that is the problem. I'm

sure we will have plenty of time to discuss this as the months unfold.

We have all been surprised by the radical nature of the changes in

Theresa May's government. It suggests to me that she has been

thinking about this for much longer than we ever thought, and kept quiet

during the referendum campaign. We now know what she was really doing.

And you want to put the smack of your in print as you come in, but

has she unnecessarily made enemies of people that she did not have to

make enemies of, like young Dominic Rab? I think she has certainly made

some pretty staunch enemies. -- Dominic Rabb. I received a call on

Friday night from somebody who was hopping mad at the treatment of

people in Downing Street, the scale of the revolution that has gone on

inside Number Ten, and we have seen characters like Anna Super League,

who was ostensibly an Theresa May's side of the argument, a remain and a

senior minister and she has now flounced off, saying she is not

prepared to serve. And these people could be powerful enemies. I think

Theresa May has made a strong statement, and actually, very

impressively, she has put the people she wants in places, and it will be

up to those ministers who she has put in, the Brexiter years, to make

a good fist of it. -- the Brexiteers. I understand that she

wanted to put on stamp on it, but as she made some enemies of people that

she did not need to make enemies of? I am sure she has and it is a risk

to take when your majority is just 12 seats. That means she assumes it

will not be 12-16 seats within a year's time because the option of

going to the country again while Labour are in disarray and the

majority is so weak is there before her, maybe not this winter because

it would be unconventional but in the spring, if she is ten or 15

points ahead in the polls, all it would take is for the repeal of the

fixed term parliament's act for her to go to the country. But she would

have to get that through the Lords as well as the Commons. Many of the

Lords were not thrilled with the act when it was introduced under the

coalition. Let's rule this out, let's rule out autumn but might she

go next spring? I think autumn is the only chance to do it. If you

drag it on and on, it becomes very difficult. She would have to rule it

out unequivocally. Not next spring but possibly November. Then we

better get a summer break. That is it for us.

I'm off to America for the Republican and Democratic

conventions, but the Daily Politics continues lunchtime tomorrow

The Sunday Politics will return in time for the party conference

And maybe Steve's collection as well.

Remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics

Do you want to try Mandy's healthy pork burgers?

This week, Gregg and Chris show how spending less on food. .

..might be easier... It took me literally two minutes to make it.

..healthier... Look! We've got a little veg workshop going!