18/09/2016 Sunday Politics London


18/09/2016

Similar Content

Browse content similar to 18/09/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Jeremy Corbyn insists he can re-unite the Labour Party if he wins

:00:36.:00:46.

the leadership contest next week, but, as threats to deselect MPs

:00:47.:00:48.

opposed to Mr Corbyn come to light, is Labour heading for meltdown?

:00:49.:00:51.

She won the Ukip leadership on Friday, and by Saturday

:00:52.:00:55.

was facing internecine spats and calls for her to ditch

:00:56.:00:58.

So how can Diane James pull her party together,

:00:59.:01:03.

and what's the point of Ukip post-Brexit?

:01:04.:01:05.

Theresa May insists she doesn't need to call a fresh election,

:01:06.:01:11.

so will she deliver every promise made in the 2015

:01:12.:01:16.

We've updated our Manifesto Tracker to check how much of it

:01:17.:01:26.

the Government is delivering, and how much it has been junked.

:01:27.:01:31.

In London, the fightback began 12 months ago but they finished fifth

:01:32.:01:36.

in the London assembly election. Is it all over for the Lib Dems in the

:01:37.:01:38.

capital? And with me, as always,

:01:39.:01:44.

the best and the brightest political panel in the business -

:01:45.:01:46.

Tim Shipman, Helen Lewis and Isabel Oakeshott,

:01:47.:01:49.

who'll be tweeting throughout the programme using

:01:50.:01:50.

the hashtag #BBCSP. By this time next week we'll know

:01:51.:01:55.

whether Jeremy Corbyn will remain Labour leader,

:01:56.:01:57.

or if his challenger, Owen Smith, Whoever wins, they face a big

:01:58.:01:59.

challenge to reunite the party after months of hostilities

:02:00.:02:07.

between Corbyn supporters in the grassroots and

:02:08.:02:09.

the majority of Labour MPs. Tomorrow, two television

:02:10.:02:16.

documentaries are scheduled to air - on BBC One and Channel 4 -

:02:17.:02:19.

which report on the Speaking to the BBC's deputy

:02:20.:02:22.

political editor John Pienaar for Panorama, Len McClusky,

:02:23.:02:25.

general secretary of the Unite union, said opponents

:02:26.:02:32.

of Mr Corbyn need to get back Some of the MPs have behaved

:02:33.:02:34.

absolutely despicably and disgracefully,

:02:35.:02:40.

and they've not shown any respect So those vocal dissidents

:02:41.:02:42.

who do not show the respect to the leader that you describe,

:02:43.:02:49.

when it comes to deselection they would simply be

:02:50.:02:51.

asking for it, you say? I think they would, I think anybody

:02:52.:02:55.

who behaves in a way that is totally disrespectful,

:02:56.:02:58.

and outwith the culture of the Labour Party,

:02:59.:03:03.

is basically asking to be Meanwhile, Channel 4's Dispatches

:03:04.:03:05.

programme secretly filmed a meeting of Momentum activists in London -

:03:06.:03:14.

that's the organisation set up to support Jeremy Corbyn's

:03:15.:03:20.

leadership, where the former chairman of the Brighton Labour

:03:21.:03:22.

Party set out his views on opponents of Corbyn,

:03:23.:03:25.

including the local And we've been joined by the Labour

:03:26.:03:26.

MP for Hove, Peter Kyle. Are you nervous about your future? I

:03:27.:04:29.

have seen that clip for the first time now. I made three promises when

:04:30.:04:34.

I was up for selection, that I would be the hardest working candidate,

:04:35.:04:37.

bring politics back to the high street and engage with the public in

:04:38.:04:41.

a way that they never had in the constituency before, and beat the

:04:42.:04:44.

Tories, and I have done all three of those things. I have been incredibly

:04:45.:04:48.

hard-working with my team to make sure politics is driven deeper and

:04:49.:04:51.

wider into the local constituency than it ever has been before. We are

:04:52.:04:57.

more inclusive than any point before and more hard-working... I want to

:04:58.:05:07.

ask you another question... If they want to get me out of that seat,

:05:08.:05:10.

they have to work hard to do so. Is there an organised campaign to

:05:11.:05:13.

remove you? You have just seen the chair of my local party talking in a

:05:14.:05:15.

secret meeting somewhere to have me ousted, so clearly there is a

:05:16.:05:19.

movement locally. I have been a member of the Labour Party my whole

:05:20.:05:23.

life, there are people who have fought for other parties their whole

:05:24.:05:25.

lives who have joined in the last few weeks and are trying to beat the

:05:26.:05:29.

Labour Party in a different way, by getting rid of me. I am going to

:05:30.:05:34.

carry on doing my job. They are trying to get rid of

:05:35.:05:45.

you, aren't they? They are trying to get rid of the only Labour seat for

:05:46.:05:50.

a 200 mile stretch of coastline. That is extraordinary, we are

:05:51.:05:52.

surrounded down there by Tories and they are aiming fire at a Labour MP

:05:53.:05:55.

working harder than any other down there, trying to solve problems of

:05:56.:05:57.

the rail, the health service, hosting a debate last week about

:05:58.:05:59.

abuse in the family Court against women, all of these core issues for

:06:00.:06:02.

the Labour Party and that is what they are aiming fire act. It does

:06:03.:06:06.

not seem to make any difference of Mr Sandall, who was the head of the

:06:07.:06:12.

constituency, who was once suspended, he says he does not --

:06:13.:06:19.

you do not represent them any more? He said I did not support the

:06:20.:06:24.

doctors, I did, I took the line given by Heidi Alexander at the

:06:25.:06:28.

time, which was not to go to the particular picket line. I have held

:06:29.:06:32.

round tables with doctors, spoken in the chamber about doctors. He said a

:06:33.:06:37.

list of different areas where I have not supported the Labour socialist

:06:38.:06:42.

left line, every one of them he is absolutely categorically wrong. On

:06:43.:06:46.

rail renationalisation, I have never spoken against it. I said it cannot

:06:47.:06:51.

happen for ten years so in the meantime I am making sure I can make

:06:52.:06:54.

people's journeys home from work better than the journey to work,

:06:55.:06:58.

which is what people expect. Who will have the support, you all the

:06:59.:07:04.

people who want to get wood of you? I don't think about that for a

:07:05.:07:08.

second, my job is to represent the people who elected me. There is a

:07:09.:07:13.

34% increase in the Labour vote in Hove because of the way that my team

:07:14.:07:18.

ran the campaign. But they know all that and they still want rid of you.

:07:19.:07:24.

Clive Lewis, fellow Labour MP, said to the BBC this morning it is

:07:25.:07:28.

democratic selection. There is nothing democratic about what they

:07:29.:07:29.

are doing, there is nothing reaching out about

:07:30.:07:50.

what they are doing. Jeremy is the first person I have come across who

:07:51.:07:53.

uses an olive branch as a weapon to beat people with. On the same day

:07:54.:07:56.

they hold out an olive branch, they released a list of MPs who they say

:07:57.:07:59.

hate Jeremy. This is not the kind of inclusive leadership I would expect.

:08:00.:08:02.

If you face a battle to hold your seat, you don't expect any help from

:08:03.:08:05.

Jeremy Corbyn? He has come down to Brighton and said he would not stand

:08:06.:08:08.

in the way of my deselection. I am 100% focused on delivering for the

:08:09.:08:10.

people he elected me and I represent, that is what I am in

:08:11.:08:13.

politics for, so if they want to defeat me they have to work harder

:08:14.:08:16.

than me for the constituency, just like the Tories would have to do.

:08:17.:08:20.

You have made that point several times. You talk about being one of

:08:21.:08:25.

the few Labour seats in a sea of Conservative seats in what in McLeod

:08:26.:08:29.

used to call the deep South, he did that for a reason, but isn't your

:08:30.:08:34.

Brighton and Hove Labour party a bit of a basket case? There have been

:08:35.:08:40.

examples of abusive behaviour, in ballot, the NEC suspended it in

:08:41.:08:45.

July, it is a bit of a mess. When I go out campaigning, which is every

:08:46.:08:48.

weekend, I have a massive team around me, I am part of an

:08:49.:08:52.

incredible movement in Brighton and Hove, and the vast majority of

:08:53.:08:56.

people in the Labour Party in Brighton and nationwide want to do

:08:57.:08:58.

the right thing, they care about social values and delivering it. We

:08:59.:09:03.

just have to win the argument but we have to be more electable and Jeremy

:09:04.:09:07.

is not showing the calibre of leadership that the

:09:08.:09:21.

official opposition needs, the Labour Party needs, and the country

:09:22.:09:25.

needs to look to if we are going to make the leap from opposition into

:09:26.:09:27.

power. Thank you for being with us this morning. Later in the programme

:09:28.:09:30.

we hope to be joined by James Schneider of Momentum.

:09:31.:09:32.

Allen, how typical is this situation? Are a number of Labour

:09:33.:09:38.

MPs now going to face deselection challenges? I think lots of people

:09:39.:09:42.

in the PLP are worried, more of them are women than men, I don't know if

:09:43.:09:45.

that is coincidence or speaks to something broader, but the boundary

:09:46.:09:49.

changes give golden opportunity for some rethinking, Jeremy Corbyn is

:09:50.:09:53.

talking about selection. The idea if you have a boundary change, if you

:09:54.:10:00.

have 40%, your steak on the seat is the same but anybody not in that

:10:01.:10:03.

situation has to play a game of musical chairs and that is seen as a

:10:04.:10:07.

good chance to reconfigure the party. It is good this is coming out

:10:08.:10:11.

into the open because we have heard for months from Jeremy Corbyn's team

:10:12.:10:15.

that this is a terrible smear but it seems to be something that people

:10:16.:10:19.

like Len McCluskey, very close to the Labour leadership, want to

:10:20.:10:25.

happen. It has been denied, but we had Len McCluskey now saying he is

:10:26.:10:29.

up for the changes, particularly for people who have been very rude about

:10:30.:10:36.

Mr Corbyn, Clive Lewis talking it -- calling it democratic selection,

:10:37.:10:39.

Momentum, as we have seen from the film, clearly organising to move in

:10:40.:10:43.

on a number of MPs, it is going to happen? Yes, I think it is, the

:10:44.:10:49.

phrase Clive Lewis used this morning is a natural churn, are turn of

:10:50.:10:53.

phrase which suggest the label -- upheaval. People are saying that

:10:54.:11:00.

Jeremy Corbyn will reach out to all of these people, ask what he has

:11:01.:11:04.

done wrong and bring everybody back together. The people on the other

:11:05.:11:08.

side think that is a chance to line up loyalty pledges. Meanwhile we

:11:09.:11:12.

hear this morning in the newspapers that Corbyn and the people around

:11:13.:11:15.

him had a meeting in a country house a month ago in which they are not

:11:16.:11:20.

just planning to go after MPs but also the leadership of the Labour

:11:21.:11:23.

Party itself in terms of the staffing, the Management, the

:11:24.:11:26.

general secretary is for the high jump, we hear, and the guy they are

:11:27.:11:31.

thinking of lining up for that is one of Mr Paloschi -- Len

:11:32.:11:39.

McCluskey's friends at Unite, you cannot imagine they would put too

:11:40.:11:42.

many barriers in his way. That appears to be what is going on

:11:43.:11:46.

behind the scenes. At every single stage where the moderates say this

:11:47.:11:50.

is the worst thing that could happen, the Corbynistas said, oh,

:11:51.:11:54.

no, it isn't, and you find out something worse is going on. If Mr

:11:55.:12:00.

Corbyn is re-elected comfortably, perhaps by even more of a majority

:12:01.:12:04.

than he was last time, isn't it only natural that they should then work

:12:05.:12:10.

for the MPs to reflect more the views of the new membership? One of

:12:11.:12:17.

the interesting aspects of what is going on it it seems to be the new

:12:18.:12:22.

MPs like Peter Kyle who we have just had on who were under so much threat

:12:23.:12:26.

here, and the reason is because they have not got that hinterland with

:12:27.:12:29.

their party association, they have not built up that long-term trust.

:12:30.:12:36.

One of the things that is furious about this party leadership contest

:12:37.:12:40.

is that normally once a leadership contest is over, it is a cue for a

:12:41.:12:45.

period of stability and calm, it brings things to

:12:46.:13:11.

ahead everybody settles down and falls into line. I think the

:13:12.:13:15.

opposite will happen here. There is absolutely no sign that Jeremy

:13:16.:13:17.

Corbyn's return, as we expect to happen, to the leadership will in

:13:18.:13:20.

some ways take the steam out of this thing. They do have a plan, I think,

:13:21.:13:22.

at the moment, to give the Parliamentary party some more power

:13:23.:13:25.

over the selection of the Shadow Cabinet, and that could be a way of

:13:26.:13:27.

trying to work together better, but I can't see it working. We will talk

:13:28.:13:30.

more about this later. Let's move on to the Conservatives.

:13:31.:13:32.

Theresa May insists her Government will be markedly different

:13:33.:13:35.

from David Cameron's, but doesn't appear to want

:13:36.:13:36.

an early general election to provide her with a new mandate.

:13:37.:13:39.

So, does that mean she'll stick by everything in Conservatives'

:13:40.:13:41.

We've been busy crawling through the promises

:13:42.:13:44.

made by David Cameron, and updated our Manifesto Tracker

:13:45.:13:46.

to check which policies are being pursued and which have been ditched.

:13:47.:13:49.

It's been an eventful period since we launched

:13:50.:13:52.

Britain has voted to leave the EU and a new Prime

:13:53.:13:56.

Minister is in place, but the Conservative Government

:13:57.:13:58.

under Theresa May will still be held to the promises it made ahead

:13:59.:14:01.

of the 2015 general election in their manifesto, and a few other

:14:02.:14:04.

big commitments made during the campaign.

:14:05.:14:06.

And this is how we are keeping track of their progress.

:14:07.:14:09.

We have identified 161 pledges and loaded them into

:14:10.:14:11.

We grouped them into categories covering all the major areas

:14:12.:14:18.

of Government policy, from the constitution

:14:19.:14:20.

And we have given each of the promises a colour rating.

:14:21.:14:27.

Red means little or no progress so far.

:14:28.:14:31.

Amber means the Government has made some progress.

:14:32.:14:36.

While green is for delivered pledges.

:14:37.:14:40.

Let's start by looking at one here in foreign affairs and defence,

:14:41.:14:43.

The promise to hold a referendum on our EU membership.

:14:44.:14:55.

We have changed that to green, as the Government did deliver

:14:56.:14:58.

in June, even if it didn't get the result it wanted.

:14:59.:15:00.

Many of the promises made while David Cameron was leader

:15:01.:15:03.

were based around what he hoped he could achieve in his

:15:04.:15:05.

renegotiation of our relationship with the EU, particularly

:15:06.:15:08.

The manifesto said that EU migrants who want to claim tax credits

:15:09.:15:17.

and child benefits must live here and contribute

:15:18.:15:20.

The deal offered to David Cameron by the rest of the EU was a much

:15:21.:15:27.

weaker version of the pledge, which, like the rest

:15:28.:15:30.

of the renegotiation, was rejected by the voters

:15:31.:15:32.

So we have given this a red, although it is possible

:15:33.:15:40.

the Government could deliver on it once we have left the EU.

:15:41.:15:45.

The same goes for the promise that if a child of an EU migrant

:15:46.:15:49.

is living abroad, they should receive no child benefit

:15:50.:15:52.

David Cameron's renegotiation failed to secure this policy

:15:53.:15:59.

in full and it would be up to Theresa May's Government if it

:16:00.:16:02.

The vote to leave has had big implications for manifesto

:16:03.:16:09.

commitments in other areas, like here in the economy.

:16:10.:16:14.

One of the central promises made by David Cameron

:16:15.:16:17.

and George Osborne was this one, to eliminate the deficit and start

:16:18.:16:20.

But after the Brexit vote, Theresa May confirmed that

:16:21.:16:29.

while the Government aims to achieve a budget surplus,

:16:30.:16:32.

it has dropped the target of doing so by the end

:16:33.:16:39.

Now, those are some areas where the Government has made little

:16:40.:16:45.

Well, it fought a major battle in Parliament to tighten the rules

:16:46.:16:52.

This promise, which said strike action can only be called

:16:53.:16:59.

when at least half the eligible workforce have voted, is now law,

:17:00.:17:02.

As does this one, meaning that strikes affecting essential public

:17:03.:17:08.

services like health, education, fire and transport,

:17:09.:17:10.

will need the backing of at least 40% of those eligible to vote.

:17:11.:17:20.

We have marked the majority of policies as amber,

:17:21.:17:23.

meaning at least some progress is being made.

:17:24.:17:28.

Here in welfare, for example, we have got the Government's

:17:29.:17:31.

flagship reform, universal credit, which has been rolled out

:17:32.:17:33.

for some job-seekers, although the timetable for full

:17:34.:17:36.

delivery has been pushed back repeatedly and is currently

:17:37.:17:39.

And another here, under the environment.

:17:40.:17:48.

That's the promise to create a so-called bluebelt of protected

:17:49.:17:51.

conservation zones in the water around the UK's coast.

:17:52.:17:57.

That has been given amber, as the programme still

:17:58.:17:59.

Now let's see how the Government is doing overall.

:18:00.:18:05.

Out of 161 election commitments, the number of commitments we have

:18:06.:18:07.

The number marked amber falls to 90, and the number of green or delivered

:18:08.:18:17.

We will be returning to the Manifesto Tracker again,

:18:18.:18:24.

but in the meantime you can find all of the data on the politics

:18:25.:18:27.

And you can see the full details of our Manifesto Tracker

:18:28.:18:35.

on the BBC website - that's bbc.co.uk/news.

:18:36.:18:46.

I'm joined by the Conservative Cabinet minister, the leader

:18:47.:18:48.

of the House of Commons, David Lidington.

:18:49.:18:52.

Your biggest manifesto fail to date is immigration, how are you ever

:18:53.:19:02.

going to get net migration below 100,000? A number of different

:19:03.:19:06.

measures and clearly the nature of the renegotiation now as we leave

:19:07.:19:09.

the European Union will have a very important bearing on that, but one

:19:10.:19:13.

thing the Prime Minister set out very clearly is that we remain

:19:14.:19:18.

committed to getting the reduction in net migration that she has talked

:19:19.:19:23.

about consistently, but there's no quick fixes. People come to this

:19:24.:19:27.

country through a number of different routes, son to marry

:19:28.:19:32.

citizens, some for work reasons, some for asylum claims, some of the

:19:33.:19:35.

study, and we have got to look at each of those and work out how we

:19:36.:19:38.

can make sure the numbers are managed and controlled in the way

:19:39.:19:43.

people would expect. But you have been in power for six years and you

:19:44.:19:48.

have been in control of non-EU migration for six years, and it is

:19:49.:19:52.

still running at 190,000 net per year, even on the part of migration

:19:53.:19:59.

you are on complete control, you are nowhere near the 100,000 target.

:20:00.:20:05.

Why? Because in part our economy has been very sexual and other

:20:06.:20:11.

universities have been successful in attracting people to come here. We

:20:12.:20:16.

need to make sure that people, when they come here legitimately, to do a

:20:17.:20:21.

university course or take out a work permit opportunity for a limited

:20:22.:20:25.

period of time, do actually return home after they have completed that

:20:26.:20:31.

time they are permitted here, that we, as we have done, cut the number

:20:32.:20:40.

of bonus colleges... 190,000 net per year of non-EU, and you didn't say

:20:41.:20:46.

we will cut it to 100,000 unless we run the economy well. There were no

:20:47.:20:52.

ifs, no buts, was David Cameron's exact phrase. Can we get some

:20:53.:20:57.

honesty here, this whole project is Mission impossible. The meteor

:20:58.:21:02.

manifesto pledge, you would have to cut EU migration to below 50000 and

:21:03.:21:10.

non-EU migration to below 50,000. It's not going to happen, is it? We

:21:11.:21:15.

are committed to the ambitions, the object of the Prime Minister has set

:21:16.:21:20.

out. I think the public accepts that people who come here bona fides as

:21:21.:21:29.

tourists, workers to fill a skills gap we have got, that's fine but

:21:30.:21:34.

they expect people then to go back after their term here. And they also

:21:35.:21:39.

expect, which we are doing, to make sure school leavers have the

:21:40.:21:42.

opportunity to be trained so they can take the jobs that are

:21:43.:21:46.

available. They expect you to meet the promise you have made twice. He

:21:47.:21:52.

made it in the 2010 manifesto and again in the 2015 manifesto. I think

:21:53.:21:56.

many people watching this will say, why do you repeat a pledge you know

:21:57.:22:03.

you cannot keep? I don't agree it cannot be kept, but what I have said

:22:04.:22:08.

to you is that this is a complex challenge. There are no quick fixes

:22:09.:22:13.

to this, this is something Theresa May has repeatedly said. But just as

:22:14.:22:18.

we have introduced restrictions on access to benefits that we have

:22:19.:22:24.

introduced a requirement for people coming to marry a British citizen to

:22:25.:22:27.

speak English and reach a certain standard before they come here, we

:22:28.:22:33.

need to look at that level of detail at each of the tracks that people

:22:34.:22:37.

used to come here. Net migration is running at three times your target.

:22:38.:22:42.

In the manifesto you said you would insist EU migrants would need to

:22:43.:22:46.

live and work here for four years before they could claim welfare

:22:47.:22:52.

benefits. The EU said no. Now we are leaving the EU, is that the minimum

:22:53.:22:58.

we will insist on? Clearly anything to do with EU citizens already here

:22:59.:23:05.

and prospective inward migration by EU citizens or British citizens to

:23:06.:23:09.

other EU countries is part of the negotiation. Is that still a pledge?

:23:10.:23:19.

That specific pledge was part of the last manifesto, it was actually

:23:20.:23:23.

delivered in a number of different ways through the restrictions that

:23:24.:23:28.

we did place upon, and are still in force, on EU migrants coming here

:23:29.:23:34.

seeking work and getting access to out of work benefits. The big issue

:23:35.:23:39.

at the renegotiation David Cameron lead was access to tax credits and

:23:40.:23:43.

in work benefits. He came to a deal on that which limited it, but that

:23:44.:23:50.

failed after the referendum. It wasn't that you don't get anything

:23:51.:23:55.

unless you have been here for four years, your manifesto also promised

:23:56.:23:59.

the required EU job seekers to leave if they haven't found a job within

:24:00.:24:05.

six months. Will that be fulfilled pledge in this Parliament? That is

:24:06.:24:18.

already a policy we have taken. How many EU citizens have you removed? I

:24:19.:24:23.

think we can agree to close the norm. You have not kept that pledge,

:24:24.:24:30.

EU job seekers are here, aren't they? That is one very important

:24:31.:24:38.

part of the exit negotiation is now under way, but it wouldn't be

:24:39.:24:41.

sensible to give a running commentary on the detail of that.

:24:42.:24:45.

Post Brexit, it would be reasonable to think EU migrants still coming

:24:46.:24:49.

here would be regarded more favourable than non-EU migrants? We

:24:50.:24:55.

were part of the club for 40 years. What they get more favourable

:24:56.:25:01.

treatment if they were EU citizens? That is speculation about what comes

:25:02.:25:05.

out of the negotiation, and we will go into that with a range of

:25:06.:25:09.

objectives, both in terms of control over migration by EU citizens, which

:25:10.:25:14.

I think is what British people expected when they voted as they

:25:15.:25:18.

did, but also with the objective of getting the best possible outcome

:25:19.:25:22.

for British business. On tax and spend, one of the key promises in

:25:23.:25:27.

the manifesto was to move to fiscal surplus from fiscal deficit by the

:25:28.:25:32.

end of the decade, do you still intend to keep that? The PM said she

:25:33.:25:42.

remains committed, but not by the end of the parliament. When you look

:25:43.:25:46.

at the fact there is uncertainty in the world economy, clearly some

:25:47.:25:49.

uncertainty in the aftermath of the referendum outcome, that was a

:25:50.:25:52.

sensible, pragmatic decision to take. So do we have an idea of when

:25:53.:26:04.

the target of surplus will be? The Chancellor will give his Autumn

:26:05.:26:08.

Statement in the next few weeks, and will set out the Government's plan.

:26:09.:26:14.

The pledge to start a move towards surplus in the 2018/19 manifesto, it

:26:15.:26:20.

said we are set to move into surplus of them, that is now off the cards?

:26:21.:26:32.

We are committed to it, but not with that timing. When you set out to a

:26:33.:26:36.

destination, if the traffic conditions say you should take

:26:37.:26:42.

different route, that's what you do. But we don't know if Brexit will be

:26:43.:26:46.

as dire as people like you predicted, so until we do know that,

:26:47.:26:50.

why ditch the planned to head the surplus that you promised the

:26:51.:26:56.

British people? Because there is uncertainty in the world economy. It

:26:57.:27:00.

seems sensible to make that adjustment, but the destination

:27:01.:27:04.

still remains. You have no evidence anything has changed. You work on

:27:05.:27:12.

the basis of evidence remains but Philip will be working on these

:27:13.:27:15.

details in the Autumn Statement shortly. Will Theresa May's ferment

:27:16.:27:24.

continued to implement the 2015 manifesto? Is she committed to it in

:27:25.:27:30.

its entirety as much as David Cameron? Yes, she was very clear out

:27:31.:27:34.

her first cabinet meeting that she wanted every departmental minister

:27:35.:27:37.

to go back to the manifesto on which we were elected with a majority, and

:27:38.:27:44.

to ensure that we were delivering on those objectives. I think your

:27:45.:27:49.

tracker is a good idea. Just not when it comes to the surplus or

:27:50.:27:55.

immigration? One point of the tracker is that it enables you and

:27:56.:27:59.

the public to see where we are making progress, as we are for

:28:00.:28:03.

example on getting more poorer people out of tax and into work and

:28:04.:28:07.

so on, and where we have taken the decision to alter the course of it.

:28:08.:28:12.

I'm glad you think the tracker is a good idea. Come back in the future

:28:13.:28:14.

and we will talk more about it. She says Ukip is the official

:28:15.:28:17.

opposition in waiting. But how can Ukip's new leader,

:28:18.:28:19.

Diane James, stop the infighting and factionalism that's threatened

:28:20.:28:22.

to destroy the party's And what's the point

:28:23.:28:24.

of Ukip now that the UK Diane James joins me

:28:25.:28:27.

live in just a moment. First, Ellie Price reports

:28:28.:28:30.

from Ukip's party conference in Bournemouth, where the new leader

:28:31.:28:32.

moved swiftly to put her stamp It is an absolute pleasure

:28:33.:28:35.

to announce, with 8451 votes, the leader of the UK

:28:36.:28:42.

Independence Party, Diane James! There you have it,

:28:43.:28:48.

the biggest non-surprise in politics in years -

:28:49.:28:50.

Diane James is the She's been the frontrunner in this

:28:51.:28:52.

election campaign all summer. Of course, the challenge now

:28:53.:28:56.

is going to be convincing this lot What I will be doing is stepping

:28:57.:28:59.

into his leadership shoes, but I will be doing everything

:29:00.:29:17.

to achieve the political success that he's handing over to me

:29:18.:29:22.

and to you. But, as the new leader, Diane James

:29:23.:29:26.

knows she has big shoes to fill. Nigel's a great almost wartime

:29:27.:29:31.

leader, he said that during his speech, and I think

:29:32.:29:34.

Diane's a different kind of leader. There's talk of war,

:29:35.:29:37.

there's talk of peace times, but unfortunately there aren't peace

:29:38.:29:41.

times within Ukip at the moment. I think this pretty much

:29:42.:29:44.

settles the issue. Diane is strong on these

:29:45.:29:46.

sorts of issues. In many ways, Nigel

:29:47.:29:48.

was slightly weak, actually. There's really only about four

:29:49.:29:54.

or five people who cause trouble in Ukip, and I'm pretty sure that's

:29:55.:29:57.

the end of the story. But just before a live interview

:29:58.:30:01.

with Ukip's Steven Woolfe, I was literally caught in the middle

:30:02.:30:04.

of what you could describe You've seen and heard what was said

:30:05.:30:07.

in the media, and so... The reason for Neil

:30:08.:30:20.

Hamilton's anger? Diane James had rewritten the next

:30:21.:30:25.

day's conference schedule It certainly seems like a quixotic

:30:26.:30:27.

decision from somebody who an hour or two ago was talking

:30:28.:30:34.

about the need for party unity. He was replaced by his rival

:30:35.:30:37.

in Welsh Ukip. You said to me the other day

:30:38.:30:41.

there would be a bloodbath, Is this the beginning

:30:42.:30:44.

of the bloodbath? I think it's the beginning of Diane

:30:45.:30:50.

putting her foot down, showing that she is the leader,

:30:51.:30:53.

and that she wants the rest of the conference to go the way

:30:54.:30:55.

that she wants it to go. We're fine, just

:30:56.:30:59.

wondering who you are? That's Douglas Carswell,

:31:00.:31:02.

by the way, the party's only MP. The now ex-leader thinks

:31:03.:31:04.

he knows exactly who he is, and was using his new-found

:31:05.:31:06.

freedom to explain. During the referendum campaign,

:31:07.:31:11.

he's really done all he can But the new leader was there,

:31:12.:31:13.

symbolically, to greet him. Damaging comments from

:31:14.:31:21.

Mr Farage this morning, Lots of people in politics say

:31:22.:31:23.

all sorts of things. Diane James was also

:31:24.:31:27.

more than happy to share Diane, I give you 110% of

:31:28.:31:31.

my support. This conference ends

:31:32.:31:34.

on a conciliatory note, and there are signs this

:31:35.:31:48.

party is already moving And we've been joined by

:31:49.:31:50.

the new leader of Ukip, Diane James. Good morning, thank you. What is the

:31:51.:32:15.

point of Ukip? We are the only party 100% committed to Brexit, we have a

:32:16.:32:20.

Tory Government that is still split, a Labour Party that has no idea

:32:21.:32:23.

which direction it is going in. You have what is left of the Liberal

:32:24.:32:28.

Democrats relying on their voice in Europe, their single voice in

:32:29.:32:31.

Europe, to get their message across, and we are the one party that will

:32:32.:32:35.

stand up for the over 17 million people that wanted to leave the

:32:36.:32:39.

European Union, simple. Except that you are dysfunctional? No, we are

:32:40.:32:52.

embarking on a brand-new era, as I said on a conference. I know you

:32:53.:32:55.

will pick up on the changes I made to the programme but the new leader

:32:56.:32:57.

has the prerogative to do that. I understand that, and leaders should

:32:58.:33:00.

lead, but Paul Nuttall, the outgoing deputy leader, has spoken of a

:33:01.:33:02.

cancer at the heart of the party that has led to leading light using

:33:03.:33:07.

Ukip as a football. You have huge problems in Wales, its huge problems

:33:08.:33:11.

with the NEC, an issue with Nathan Gill, with many favoured candidates

:33:12.:33:18.

who ended up not standing, senior colleagues falling out, membership

:33:19.:33:22.

and funding declining, which bit of that is not dysfunctional? Thank you

:33:23.:33:26.

for reminding me of the issues I have got to tackle over the next few

:33:27.:33:31.

weeks. I made it clear in my events around the country that I would have

:33:32.:33:35.

a 100 day plan, focusing on precisely the sort of issues you

:33:36.:33:38.

have outlined. I don't agree with one of them, by any means, but in

:33:39.:33:43.

100 days I hope to be able to show that we are turning a corner and

:33:44.:33:47.

that we are embarking on a new era. You claim you will be the real

:33:48.:33:50.

opposition to Government but you only have one semidetached MP in

:33:51.:33:57.

Westminster, it is delusional? No, it is not, look where we are at this

:33:58.:34:02.

point, potentially four by-elections, we said we would not

:34:03.:34:06.

stand in one out of respect to Jo Cox but three others, look at those

:34:07.:34:11.

by-elections in the context of the dysfunctional position Labour is in,

:34:12.:34:15.

and we are ripe to take those seats. Do you accept your only MP, Douglas

:34:16.:34:20.

Carswell, is pretty semidetached at best? I would not call him

:34:21.:34:24.

semidetached, I heard the speech he gave at the conference, the

:34:25.:34:29.

endorsement he gave me and the endorsement he has given

:34:30.:34:31.

subsequently, and I see him as being a member of the Ukip team going

:34:32.:34:35.

forward. You have asked to move a Private members Bill to invoke

:34:36.:34:43.

article 50, has he agreed? He stated he would do his level best. That is

:34:44.:34:47.

not the same as agreeing. He made the point that there is another

:34:48.:34:51.

option, to repeal the European communities act and instigate a

:34:52.:34:54.

debate on that. We have an individual prepared to launch a two

:34:55.:34:58.

pronged attack in the House of Commons and forced Theresa May into

:34:59.:35:03.

doing something. A two pronged one-man attack. He told me on Friday

:35:04.:35:10.

that Ukip should be, quote, a free-market Libertarian party. If

:35:11.:35:14.

that your vision? If I can remind you, from my speech, my vision is

:35:15.:35:20.

probably slightly different words, it is global, positive, outward

:35:21.:35:23.

looking, enterprise building and making this country great again

:35:24.:35:27.

outside of the EU control. But if it free-market and libertarian? That is

:35:28.:35:34.

his vision, I am trying to work out the vision -- if the vision of your

:35:35.:35:40.

only MP is the same as the new leader? OK, I will say it is the

:35:41.:35:45.

same. So you are free-market and libertarianism? Yes, we are about

:35:46.:35:50.

enterprise Britain... Given the leadership campaign was a policy

:35:51.:35:54.

free zone, what will be the most distinctive policies Ukip will stand

:35:55.:35:59.

for under Diane James? Certainly the issue of migration and immigration,

:36:00.:36:04.

certainly the issue of defence, giving us back the ability to defend

:36:05.:36:08.

this country... These are existing policies? No, these need a major

:36:09.:36:15.

refresh out of EU control. The aspect of Homeland Security, the

:36:16.:36:19.

aspect we have not got a functioning Border Force, we have not got a

:36:20.:36:22.

functioning passport control system, we have even got a Home Secretary

:36:23.:36:30.

continuing the project via aspect of a beaver charge for people going

:36:31.:36:35.

into Europe or coming to the UK. Absolutely bizarre. I am just trying

:36:36.:36:39.

to find out what the policies will be. The major one for me, given my

:36:40.:36:45.

background, the state that the NHS is in, and if we can show a very

:36:46.:36:49.

clear vision and stand up to what Jeremy Hunt is doing in terms of

:36:50.:36:54.

decimating the NHS, I will be delighted. You will agree that is

:36:55.:36:56.

not a policy but an attitude... It is a policy in terms of the NHS.

:36:57.:37:12.

We don't know about the policy because you refused to debate with

:37:13.:37:14.

other candidates during the leadership campaign and campaigned

:37:15.:37:16.

on a no policy platform, white? I launched my own series of national

:37:17.:37:19.

events, nationwide, and I gave members and activists, and, in fact,

:37:20.:37:23.

the press, the media, anybody who wanted to come along, there was not

:37:24.:37:27.

a bar in terms of membership only, to come along and interact with me

:37:28.:37:32.

for two hours. That gave individuals, all of the members in

:37:33.:37:36.

the audience, a solid two hours to scrutinise what I had to say. That

:37:37.:37:40.

was a much higher quality programme that anything hustings would have

:37:41.:37:44.

given. But why not debate with your rivals? Because there was no need,

:37:45.:37:49.

we were not fighting a general election, we were fighting, if you

:37:50.:37:53.

wish to use the phrase, to elect the new leader of Ukip, and I chose to

:37:54.:37:57.

go direct to the members, to interact with them directly and give

:37:58.:38:00.

them quality time with me and respond to all of their questions.

:38:01.:38:06.

Many think Ukip's best chance is to win over disaffected working-class

:38:07.:38:09.

Labour voters in the north, so how does the epitome of the Home

:38:10.:38:14.

Counties bourgeoisie do that? You tell me! It is not my job. I have

:38:15.:38:21.

never heard such convoluted language! Can you simplify that so

:38:22.:38:26.

we know what you are talking about? There have been a number of leaders

:38:27.:38:30.

your party could have chosen, Paul Nuttall, Steven Woolfe, who would

:38:31.:38:33.

have had a clear, more distinct appeal to the north. Paul Michael

:38:34.:38:41.

chose not to stand. You need to ask him his reason. I'm just asking how

:38:42.:38:48.

you will appeal to the North. Steven Woolfe, a superb colleague of mine,

:38:49.:38:52.

regretfully there were issues in terms of getting his information in

:38:53.:38:56.

in time. The point I have made throughout my programme of events is

:38:57.:39:00.

that I want to have two chiefs of staff, people who will ably assist

:39:01.:39:04.

me in developing our programme, our policies, our strategy is to appeal

:39:05.:39:08.

both to the north and also the south. What will you do about Wales,

:39:09.:39:13.

where Ukip seems to be involved in civil war? I will ask Neil Hamilton

:39:14.:39:26.

to focus on Welsh Assembly, on winning the elections in Wales, and

:39:27.:39:29.

I will ask Nathan to continue doing a superb job he does in terms of

:39:30.:39:31.

representing Wales in the European Union and Parliament, and in the

:39:32.:39:34.

voting in Strasbourg. So you will have two Kings? No, Nathan has my

:39:35.:39:37.

complete and utter support, he has had a huge legacy in terms of his

:39:38.:39:41.

membership, a huge wealth of knowledge in terms of the issues

:39:42.:39:46.

facing Wales if Mrs May does not action about to leave the European

:39:47.:39:52.

Union. He has got my full support. Neil, I am asking you, step up to

:39:53.:39:58.

the plate, but focus on Wales and the assembly. One of your party's

:39:59.:40:04.

main funders was an errant banks, in the process of turning leave. EU

:40:05.:40:11.

into a momentum of the right, to mirror the Jeremy Corbyn movement on

:40:12.:40:14.

the left, do you have a problem with that? I have just been elected head

:40:15.:40:26.

of a political party. If he wishes to support a political movement,

:40:27.:40:29.

that is his decision. Other than Vladimir Putin, who is your main

:40:30.:40:34.

political hero? Certainly not Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton. I did not

:40:35.:40:40.

ask who was not, who is? I cannot think of anybody apart from Margaret

:40:41.:40:44.

Thatcher and Winston Churchill. Putin, Churchill and Thatcher. We

:40:45.:40:46.

hope to see you again. Thank you. It's just gone 11.40,

:40:47.:40:51.

you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers

:40:52.:40:53.

in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 20 minutes,

:40:54.:40:56.

the Week Ahead. First though, the Sunday

:40:57.:40:59.

Politics where you are. Hello and welcome to

:41:00.:41:07.

the London part of the show. Coming up later: The Mayor

:41:08.:41:10.

is in North America drumming up trade deals

:41:11.:41:15.

for the capital, post-Brexit. But will his message be heard

:41:16.:41:19.

amidst the sound and fury Joining me for the duration

:41:20.:41:21.

of the show, Greg Hands, the Conservative MP for Chelsea

:41:22.:41:30.

and Fulham, who is Minister Tom Brake, the Lib Dem

:41:31.:41:34.

MP for Carshalton and Wallington, and Neil Coyle,

:41:35.:41:37.

Labour MP for Bermondsey One issue preoccupying MPs this week

:41:38.:41:39.

- the looming boundary changes, which will mean a cull of 50

:41:40.:41:46.

of the existing 650 MPs, something that will arguably affect

:41:47.:41:49.

London more than any other region. Do you think this is gerrymandering

:41:50.:42:01.

by the Tories? I do, very much so. Not only does it give the Tories an

:42:02.:42:06.

advantage on top of the cuts to funding for political parties and

:42:07.:42:09.

changes in the voter registration system, it fails to take into

:42:10.:42:13.

account population growth in London and the level of casework all

:42:14.:42:18.

oversee cross-party as London MPs that is disproportionate to, for

:42:19.:42:22.

example, bits of Suffolk or Wales. You have to admit it gives you an

:42:23.:42:26.

advantage, Labour will lose more seat in the redrawing of the

:42:27.:42:45.

boundaries and you have not taken into account the latest register?

:42:46.:42:48.

What Labour and the Lib Dems are saying is a total travesty. This is

:42:49.:42:50.

about creating equal sized Parliamentary constituencies which

:42:51.:42:53.

has been a central tenet of British democracy for 200 years since the

:42:54.:42:55.

chartists in the 1830s were campaigning for equal sized... What

:42:56.:42:57.

Neal has said is he wants to go, and Tom, I'm expecting, to a situation

:42:58.:43:00.

where they favour a equal sized constituencies. It is untenable.

:43:01.:43:02.

What is wrong with equal sized constituencies? It should not be

:43:03.:43:04.

fair that one constituency need so many more votes to elect the MP than

:43:05.:43:12.

others? The fact is, we support the principle of equal sized

:43:13.:43:14.

constituencies, no problem with that whatsoever. The issue here is

:43:15.:43:20.

particularly metropolitan areas where there is a very high level of

:43:21.:43:26.

under registration of electors, and therefore the numbers this is based

:43:27.:43:31.

on severely underestimate the number of people in certain areas, and they

:43:32.:43:34.

tend to be perhaps more Labour inclined voting areas than they

:43:35.:43:39.

would be Conservatives. Tom voted for the legislation in 2011 which

:43:40.:43:43.

set the process by which the electorate in 2015 if by statute, by

:43:44.:43:50.

law, the electorate... You brought forward the date... That is what we

:43:51.:43:57.

need to do... Don't talk over each other. Let's be clear, you did bring

:43:58.:44:02.

forward the date, and what that has meant, rightly or wrongly, is that

:44:03.:44:06.

around 2 million voters have not been included, that is true? But the

:44:07.:44:10.

solution from Labour and the Lib Dems would appear to be to go back

:44:11.:44:15.

to the electorate that we use from the year 2000, which by then would

:44:16.:44:22.

be 20 years out of date. If you were interested in equal sized the

:44:23.:44:26.

population, you should be looking at the whole population, so in London

:44:27.:44:29.

and other cities, where there are many more younger people and people

:44:30.:44:35.

from outside the UK living, so you get far more, for example in my

:44:36.:44:39.

constituency I have done in 1400 bits of immigration casework, many

:44:40.:44:43.

of those people cannot register to vote... How is there a system by

:44:44.:44:48.

which there is an equal number of electors... Let me come to this

:44:49.:44:52.

point, what is happening with your seat, Greg, because the mantra of

:44:53.:44:56.

your party, I paraphrase, is no colleague should be left behind, but

:44:57.:45:01.

your seat will be carved up? In my current constituency, it will be

:45:02.:45:06.

divided into two. I will wait and see the process because the boundary

:45:07.:45:10.

map could well be redrawn, it was in the last review, and I will see what

:45:11.:45:14.

the situation looks like in 2018. We will leave it there.

:45:15.:45:18.

A year ago, Tim Farron was elected Lib Dem leader on a new punchy

:45:19.:45:21.

12 months on, and in London the fightback lacked bite,

:45:22.:45:25.

seeing Britain's former third party sink to fifth place

:45:26.:45:27.

Is it all over for the Lib Dems in London?

:45:28.:45:31.

Andrew Cryan has been talking to some of the party's senior figures.

:45:32.:45:35.

Since their disastrous general election last year,

:45:36.:45:37.

there's been big talk from the Liberal Democrats,

:45:38.:45:39.

But, at its first big test in London, May's

:45:40.:45:49.

election for City Hall, they came fourth in the mayoral race

:45:50.:45:51.

Yes, we would love to have done a little better in the Assembly

:45:52.:45:58.

elections but Caroline Pidgeon is a wonderful leader for us

:45:59.:46:00.

here in London, whose voice really cut through.

:46:01.:46:03.

But I think the moment the Liberal Democrats' fortunes

:46:04.:46:06.

in London transformed was the moment after the referendum,

:46:07.:46:09.

when it became very clear to the people of London

:46:10.:46:12.

that the only party backing our future in Europe, still believing

:46:13.:46:16.

there is a possibility that we can have a vote that could keep us

:46:17.:46:20.

in the European Union, is the Liberal Democrats.

:46:21.:46:22.

They call it a fightback, but what can you actually

:46:23.:46:25.

One of the party's biggest losses at the general election

:46:26.:46:30.

was in Bermondsey and Old Southwark, which they had held for 30 years.

:46:31.:46:35.

It's never the end of Simon Hughes, once said the former Lib Dem MP

:46:36.:46:40.

I don't think it was an anti-Simon vote, an anti-local Liberal Democrat

:46:41.:46:48.

vote, I think it was to do with what had happened nationally,

:46:49.:46:51.

and I think we can win the seat back.

:46:52.:46:53.

I don't want to have it taken from me.

:46:54.:46:56.

Once we have won it back, then in time I can give

:46:57.:46:58.

Simon took us to meet people in his stronghold on the patch.

:46:59.:47:03.

He has been looking after - he don't care who you are, what you are.

:47:04.:47:12.

We will make sure people understand that there is a personal choice

:47:13.:47:21.

between the MP they had before and the MP they have just had

:47:22.:47:25.

for the last little while, and then there's a political choice

:47:26.:47:28.

and it's a Labour Liberal Democrat political choice.

:47:29.:47:35.

But the Lib Dem fall-back in London hasn't just been to Labour.

:47:36.:47:38.

In Twickenham, former Cabinet minister Vince Cable lost his seat

:47:39.:47:41.

Now, it's hard to think of anywhere in London that is more different

:47:42.:47:45.

to Bermondsey than where I'm standing in Twickenham.

:47:46.:47:47.

The politics here are completely different as well.

:47:48.:47:49.

They kicked out the Lib Dems, and instead voted Conservative,

:47:50.:47:52.

suggesting that it's unlikely the problem

:47:53.:47:56.

here was that they were seen as being too close to the Tories.

:47:57.:48:01.

The key slogan that the Conservatives had was

:48:02.:48:03.

Well, we have no longer got Cameron and we have got the chaotic

:48:04.:48:08.

aftermath of the Brexit vote, which of course the majority

:48:09.:48:11.

So, according to the party, they lost in leafy Twickenham

:48:12.:48:16.

because a vote for the Lib Dems was seen as a vote for Labour

:48:17.:48:19.

in the inner city, because voting for them was a vote for the Tories,

:48:20.:48:23.

You know, we have strongholds, we have areas where we formally had

:48:24.:48:33.

MPs, and I think we are realistic that the fightback

:48:34.:48:36.

There's not going to be some sort of miraculous overnight recovery

:48:37.:48:40.

of the position we had before the coalition,

:48:41.:48:42.

but there is a very positive attitude in the party.

:48:43.:48:44.

We feel we have really got something to say.

:48:45.:48:48.

But with just one MP left in London one council under their control,

:48:49.:48:52.

and since May one Assembly member, there is a long, hard battle ahead

:48:53.:48:55.

The big question is, Tom Brake, are you known as dad in your

:48:56.:49:12.

constituency? But moving on, Simon Hughes making that claim! This Lib

:49:13.:49:17.

Dem fightback is not going very well, is it? As Vince Cable set out,

:49:18.:49:23.

it will be a battle, we are realistic about that, but since the

:49:24.:49:27.

general election we have seen party membership increase by 120% and that

:49:28.:49:32.

has increased in areas where we are not very strong as well so that is a

:49:33.:49:38.

good sign for the party in the longer term. Apart from the 2015

:49:39.:49:41.

mayoral elections and Assembly election, which have always been a

:49:42.:49:49.

difficult nut to crack, because as it is a two horse race... You did

:49:50.:49:58.

really badly in that. It has always been a battle between Ken

:49:59.:50:02.

Livingstone and Boris Johnson, or in this case Sadiq Khan and Zach

:50:03.:50:07.

Johnson, it is difficult to break through that. But we have held a

:50:08.:50:11.

seat in my constituency, in Kingston, in Southwark, and indeed

:50:12.:50:16.

we took seats from Conservatives in Richmond. Richmond is interesting

:50:17.:50:21.

because if Zac Goldsmith does what he said he will do and resign when

:50:22.:50:26.

we expect the third runway to be announced at Heathrow, that is a

:50:27.:50:30.

borough in which we have won a seat from the Tories on the council and

:50:31.:50:35.

it is an interesting prospect for us. At the moment as things stand,

:50:36.:50:40.

in vast swathes of London, you are nowhere. In vast swathes of London

:50:41.:50:47.

what we have also just had is the EU referendum, and across the country

:50:48.:50:51.

we had 48% of people voting to stay in, and we are the only party united

:50:52.:50:56.

on that issue. So why didn't it translate into votes? Maybe it will

:50:57.:51:05.

do in the future. People only have one party to come to and that's the

:51:06.:51:11.

Liberal Democrats. If we look at the mayoralty again, Caroline Pidgeon

:51:12.:51:14.

came fourth, in terms of the London mayoral elections, Lib Dems came

:51:15.:51:22.

fifth, even Ukip did better. Diane James is the new party's leader. She

:51:23.:51:29.

will be hoping to build on that. How do you come back from that? London

:51:30.:51:36.

is a city which is open and tolerant, and people want parties

:51:37.:51:40.

that are united, parties that are not united suffer, and we are that

:51:41.:51:46.

party. You had better not be complacent, Neil Coyle. Simon Hughes

:51:47.:51:50.

is still loved by some of his constituents. He is God! Do you feel

:51:51.:52:01.

under pressure? I think it is deeply patronising for the Liberal

:52:02.:52:04.

Democrats to keep selecting the same people. They are not bringing

:52:05.:52:07.

forward anyone else, they are not bringing forward anyone who doesn't

:52:08.:52:14.

have the same attachment to the regions that people did not vote Lib

:52:15.:52:20.

Dems last year. Simon voted for the bedroom tax, devoted to cut legal

:52:21.:52:26.

aid. Tuition fees increase. Simon is attached to those issues. You think

:52:27.:52:31.

they are being punished for those issues but after a certain amount of

:52:32.:52:35.

time they will regain a uniqueness that isn't there perhaps at the

:52:36.:52:39.

moment. Certainly not by selecting the same candidates that were part

:52:40.:52:43.

of the Government, ministers within a Conservative government. Do you

:52:44.:52:48.

think Jeremy Corbyn will help the defender of seats like yours? There

:52:49.:52:55.

is a progressive vote in my constituency and I will be working

:52:56.:52:59.

hard. The casework I do every week... You didn't ask the question

:53:00.:53:06.

-- answer the question whether Jeremy Corbyn will help. Owen Smith

:53:07.:53:12.

will potentially the our new leader next week. He worked with the Lib

:53:13.:53:18.

Dems in Government, what do you say? To some extent may have taking the

:53:19.:53:22.

pain, they paid a high price for working with you. I don't see any

:53:23.:53:30.

sign of a Lib Dem revival. 8% in the opinion polls, actually lower than

:53:31.:53:36.

after the election. They lost the tooting by-election... We didn't

:53:37.:53:45.

lose it, we didn't win the seat. There was a survey done which found

:53:46.:53:53.

interesting that more Ukip voters identify themselves with the centre

:53:54.:53:56.

of politics than Liberal Democrats, presumably because they feel

:53:57.:54:01.

post-Brexit they are more in tune with the national psyche than your

:54:02.:54:05.

party. Our party traditionally has appealed to issues to do with

:54:06.:54:10.

environment and Civil Liberties and part of the process we are going

:54:11.:54:14.

through is reconnecting with people who were perhaps disillusioned with

:54:15.:54:17.

the fact we went into coalition. That is the first age of the process

:54:18.:54:22.

but actually if you look outside London, where there have been a

:54:23.:54:26.

significant number of council by-elections, we are the party since

:54:27.:54:30.

May last year, which has gained seats. 8% in the polls, Tom. Let me

:54:31.:54:42.

just interrupts there to say to Greg Hands. As you will know, there have

:54:43.:54:46.

been some quite senior defections from Ukip to the Conservative Party.

:54:47.:54:52.

Obviously you have been sworn enemies in elections recently, are

:54:53.:54:56.

you welcoming back those people into the Tory party? We have just

:54:57.:55:00.

welcomed back a former Liberal Democrat MP who defected back to us.

:55:01.:55:08.

I'm talking about Ukip. We generally welcome people who rejoin the party.

:55:09.:55:12.

There is a process involved, but in general of course. I welcome more

:55:13.:55:17.

people into the Conservative Party, I am a Conservative. Thank you.

:55:18.:55:22.

The Mayor, Sadiq Khan, is in North America drumming

:55:23.:55:24.

up trade for London, but also - many think -

:55:25.:55:26.

making a point about Republican Presidential candidate

:55:27.:55:28.

Donald Trump's proposed ban on Muslims travelling to the USA.

:55:29.:55:30.

Khan was with Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau on Thursday.

:55:31.:55:33.

There are people in Daesh and so-called ices who say it is

:55:34.:55:43.

incompatible to be a Muslim and to hold Western liberal values, and by

:55:44.:55:47.

the way there are far right politicians in the USA, in the UK

:55:48.:55:51.

and elsewhere, saying the same thing. Greg Hands, is he doing a

:55:52.:55:57.

better job than the Government at the moment in terms of sale London

:55:58.:56:02.

and the UK is open for business? Actually we are both doing the same

:56:03.:56:07.

job. I was out in the state last month, Liam Fox was also in the

:56:08.:56:12.

States last month, drumming up support for UK business and US

:56:13.:56:17.

investment. 1 million people in this country go to work every day to work

:56:18.:56:22.

for US company. We need to make sure the message is heard loud and clear,

:56:23.:56:26.

Britain is open for business, whether it comes from me, Theresa

:56:27.:56:31.

May or Sadiq Khan I support that message. So you think he is doing

:56:32.:56:38.

good job? I support the London mayor talking about the importance of

:56:39.:56:40.

inward investment into the London economy. In a way he is doing Liam

:56:41.:56:48.

Fox's job for him, isn't he? As I said, Liam Fox was in the USA before

:56:49.:56:53.

Sadiq Khan so nobody is doing each other's job. The more voices we have

:56:54.:56:57.

saying Britain is open for business after Brexit, and by the way for

:56:58.:57:01.

Sadiq Khan I think it is the convenient time to be away. OK,

:57:02.:57:08.

sideswipe there at Labour but if we get back to what the Government is

:57:09.:57:13.

doing, do you think it was helpful Liam Fox described businessmen as

:57:14.:57:17.

fat and lazy in his bid to say we are for business? I think he was

:57:18.:57:22.

making a general point that we need to do better on exports as a

:57:23.:57:26.

country. Only 10% of British companies currently export and we

:57:27.:57:31.

want to get that increased. He's not going to ingratiate himself with the

:57:32.:57:34.

business community if he's criticising them at that personal

:57:35.:57:38.

level. The most important point is that we have got to send the message

:57:39.:57:42.

that we need to be exporting more, we are open for business, we are

:57:43.:57:49.

helping overseas direct investment. Clearly it will not be helpful, him

:57:50.:57:54.

describing businesses here as being fat and lazy and that was a

:57:55.:57:57.

regrettable statement. What he has also got to try to do is convince

:57:58.:58:01.

businesses for instance, a business here in the UK that wants to start

:58:02.:58:06.

exporting to other countries is now, once we have left the EU, will have

:58:07.:58:11.

a double dose of regulations to deal with so he will need to be

:58:12.:58:16.

particularly careful in trying to help those businesses. You should

:58:17.:58:20.

talk to businesses that export now to the European Union because that

:58:21.:58:25.

is what they are saying. I would say businesses are interested in the

:58:26.:58:29.

process but they recognise, most businesses recognise the British

:58:30.:58:33.

people voted on the 23rd of June to leave the European Union. It is now

:58:34.:58:37.

a question of getting the right relationship with the EU. Brexit

:58:38.:58:41.

must be Brexit and we need to get on with it. You say you want to send a

:58:42.:58:46.

message that Britain is open for business. What would demonstrate

:58:47.:58:49.

that very poignantly would be giving the green light to a third runway at

:58:50.:58:57.

Heathrow, wouldn't it? We are making that decision shortly based on the

:58:58.:58:59.

environmental study that was done, looking back at the Davis

:59:00.:59:02.

commission. That decision will be made shortly. We have been waiting

:59:03.:59:09.

for years and we are still waiting. Where do you stand on this issue?

:59:10.:59:13.

You have said repeatedly in the last few minutes we are open for

:59:14.:59:24.

business. This would be a massive confidence boost to businesses. We

:59:25.:59:30.

are committed to expansion in the south-east, that is the most

:59:31.:59:37.

important thing. I am supportive of expanding our runway capacity, and

:59:38.:59:41.

it is up to the Cabinet committee and the Prime Minister to make that

:59:42.:59:46.

decision. How difficult is it for Sadiq Khan in a city like London

:59:47.:59:51.

which voted to remain, but is working in Brexit UK having to sell

:59:52.:59:56.

London abroad? I think it is incredibly tough and it doesn't help

:59:57.:00:00.

to have other ministers making negative comments about British

:00:01.:00:05.

business. For me and my constituents I'm proud Sadiq Khan is trying to

:00:06.:00:09.

attract foreign businesses and ease those businesses that know it will

:00:10.:00:13.

be hard to recruit some staff and trade am a potentially. But also he

:00:14.:00:19.

could also be making the case, and I'm working with Sadiq Khan on

:00:20.:00:23.

infrastructure development within the constituency, and again he's

:00:24.:00:27.

making a positive case. Let's leave it there.

:00:28.:00:30.

Now for the rest of the political news in brief.

:00:31.:00:37.

A report from the London greenbelt council claims demand to create more

:00:38.:00:40.

homes in the capital is putting unprecedented pressure

:00:41.:00:42.

It says there are 203 applications to build on greenbelt land in London

:00:43.:00:46.

That will deliver more than 120,000 new homes but campaigners say this

:00:47.:00:51.

There were angry exchanges at Mayor's question time this week,

:00:52.:01:00.

following Sadiq Khan's decision to veto plans to create

:01:01.:01:02.

a new private pension scheme at City Hall.

:01:03.:01:05.

The only person stopping us having that pension is you.

:01:06.:01:12.

And on the BBC's Victoria Derbyshire Show, Labour MP for Bermondsey

:01:13.:01:18.

and Old Southwark, Neil Coyle, said he would consider taking legal

:01:19.:01:20.

action against Jeremy Corbyn over being named on the list

:01:21.:01:23.

Yes, and it would be the leader, not the party, because this has been

:01:24.:01:28.

issued apparently by someone in his campaign team,

:01:29.:01:30.

Let me echo that, wow, indeed. Are you going ahead with it? I am yet to

:01:31.:01:52.

have the apology I have been promised and I will base my

:01:53.:01:56.

decision... I still have not been told what I am accused of doing,

:01:57.:02:00.

which is why it is damaging. I have had a torrent of abused caused by

:02:01.:02:08.

Jeremy and John McDonnell and I am waiting for my apology. What sort of

:02:09.:02:13.

abuse? Trolling, insults, accusations that I do not belong in

:02:14.:02:17.

a political party, lots of parts of the anatomy have been mentioned as

:02:18.:02:21.

well. Yes, this is a daytime programme, we won't go into detail!

:02:22.:02:26.

Have you spoken to the leaders' offers about this? Some of his staff

:02:27.:02:30.

claim he did not know about it but clearly he did when he spoke on sky

:02:31.:02:34.

News and it again demonstrates that when Jeremy himself -- whether

:02:35.:02:39.

Jeremy himself indulges in this, you certainly create the environment,

:02:40.:02:44.

his staff have been fingered, if you like, for causing the leak, they are

:02:45.:02:47.

doing it and telling their fan base to do it. You are supporting Owen

:02:48.:02:52.

Smith, who is challenging Jeremy Corbyn, and when Jeremy Corbyn was

:02:53.:02:57.

asked about the list, I think 30 MPs including you who have been

:02:58.:03:00.

disloyal, he said, it is a fact, they have been disloyal. Is it as

:03:01.:03:06.

big a deal as you are making out? I don't know the nature of the full

:03:07.:03:11.

accusation, but what has been said since, I know the reaction I have

:03:12.:03:16.

experienced, so I know what I have received as a direct result of this

:03:17.:03:20.

list being published. My position in the Labour Party is solely that I

:03:21.:03:24.

want us to be in the best place to make sure my constituents don't have

:03:25.:03:27.

to put up with further housing crisis and damage from the

:03:28.:03:31.

Conservative Government, I want a Labour Government and believe Owen

:03:32.:03:34.

will put us in the right place for that. Briefly. We have a Government

:03:35.:03:41.

committed to spending ?18 billion on Hinkley Point C and the major

:03:42.:03:44.

opposition party is in the business of suing its party leader. We want

:03:45.:03:48.

an opposition that is capable of turning on the Government. Neal

:03:49.:03:54.

nominated Jeremy Corbyn and is it interesting what happened in the one

:03:55.:03:56.

year since. My thanks to Greg Hands,

:03:57.:03:57.

Tom Brake and Neil Coyle, Will Jeremy Corbyn be able

:03:58.:04:01.

to reunite the Labour Party if he's If Theresa May facing a backbench

:04:02.:04:10.

rebellion over her Brexit strategy? And does Tim Farron have any chance

:04:11.:04:23.

of staging a Lib Dem comeback Back with me now is Helen Lewis,

:04:24.:04:26.

Isabel Oakeshott and Tim Shipman. Also, following on from our

:04:27.:04:39.

interview with Labour MP Peter Kyle, who's complained that some Corbyn

:04:40.:04:41.

supporters are trying to deselect him, we can

:04:42.:04:43.

speak to the national organiser for Momentum,

:04:44.:04:46.

James Schneider, who joins James, there is mounting evidence

:04:47.:04:58.

that one of the purposes, one of the purposes, of Momentum is to get more

:04:59.:05:04.

Corbyn friendly Labour MPs elected. Are you still denying that? There is

:05:05.:05:09.

not mounting evidence that Momentum is campaigning for the. We are not

:05:10.:05:17.

campaigning for the selections. The one person who is apparently going

:05:18.:05:24.

to appear in a documentary tomorrow calling for Peter Kyle to be

:05:25.:05:28.

deselected isn't a member of Momentum. So you would urge all

:05:29.:05:33.

Momentum supporters in Brighton and Hove to back Mr Kyle, the sitting

:05:34.:05:38.

MP? That is not what I'm saying, I'm saying selections are a matter for

:05:39.:05:41.

local party members and affiliates and it is their right to decide what

:05:42.:05:45.

they would like to decide. Momentum is not campaigning to reselect any

:05:46.:05:55.

particular MPs. So why was Mr Sandel addressing a group of Momentum

:05:56.:06:00.

supporters, telling them how to go about deselecting anti-Corbin Labour

:06:01.:06:04.

MPs? He was invited by one local group. In a big organisation which

:06:05.:06:13.

is very, very active, 150 groups, 18,000 members, tens of thousands of

:06:14.:06:17.

activists, people have democratic debate and get invited for talks,

:06:18.:06:22.

that is normal. One meeting does not dictate national policy. Are you

:06:23.:06:27.

telling us today that Momentum, at the local level, is not and will not

:06:28.:06:34.

be involved in any efforts to replace sitting MPs? What I'm

:06:35.:06:37.

telling you is that the selections are a matter for local Labour Party

:06:38.:06:42.

members and affiliates. It is their right to choose through the

:06:43.:06:45.

mechanisms laid down by party conference and the National

:06:46.:06:50.

Executive Committee, to do that, that is completely normal. What I am

:06:51.:06:55.

saying is Momentum is not campaigning for any deselection.

:06:56.:07:01.

Even at a local level? Momentum is not campaigning for deselection. Are

:07:02.:07:05.

you telling me Momentum is not involved in trying to get rid of

:07:06.:07:09.

local MPs at local level, is that what you are saying? Andrew, what

:07:10.:07:14.

I'm telling you is that selections and elections within the Labour

:07:15.:07:19.

Party are the democratic right for members and affiliates. We are not

:07:20.:07:25.

trying to interfere with that, one way or the other. There may be

:07:26.:07:31.

members of Momentum who are members of the Labour Party who take a

:07:32.:07:35.

particular view on their MP, for example myself, I am a member of

:07:36.:07:38.

Momentum and the Labour Party, I take the view on my MP, I really

:07:39.:07:44.

like my MP. Who is your MP? Keir Starmer. So his position is safe

:07:45.:07:53.

from Momentum? All MPs' positions are safe... We have got Len

:07:54.:07:57.

McCluskey of Unite saying it is time to get rid of MPs who have been

:07:58.:08:02.

overcritical of Mr Corbyn, Mark Sandell lecturing Momentum on how to

:08:03.:08:08.

unseat sitting MPs, Clive Lewis describing deselection as simply

:08:09.:08:12.

democratic selection. Have you not had the memo yet? Andrew,

:08:13.:08:19.

selections, as I keep on saying, are the democratic right of local party

:08:20.:08:25.

members and affiliates. I am not trying to stop anybody having those

:08:26.:08:29.

rights, those rights are extremely important in a democratic party, but

:08:30.:08:33.

what I'm not going to do is be goaded into saying something I don't

:08:34.:08:37.

think, which is that Momentum should be organising for deselection is

:08:38.:08:40.

because that is not what we are doing. You are not being goaded,

:08:41.:08:44.

simply questioned. Is it correct that Momentum would like to have, or

:08:45.:08:50.

plans to have, what it is calling an engagement officer in every

:08:51.:08:54.

constituency Labour Party just to keep an eye on what is going on? Can

:08:55.:08:58.

you tell us what the engagement officer would do? It is half true.

:08:59.:09:04.

If you look at the guidelines on Momentum's website, to be a verified

:09:05.:09:09.

local Momentum, you need positive engagement with your local Labour

:09:10.:09:14.

Party, local trades union branches, community and activist groups, so

:09:15.:09:17.

each group has Labour Party engagement officers so that people

:09:18.:09:21.

are making sure they are taking part in the party, we want people to be

:09:22.:09:25.

as involved in the Labour Party as they can be, to be campaigning and

:09:26.:09:36.

part of a Democratic Party. Thank you, I know this was short notice,

:09:37.:09:38.

thank you for joining us this morning.

:09:39.:09:39.

Let's move on because we talked about Labour at the beginning. To

:09:40.:09:42.

the Lib Dems. Theoretically, the Lib Dems, at this point, given what is

:09:43.:09:45.

happening to Labour, given Mrs May and grammar schools, there could be

:09:46.:09:48.

an opening for the Lib Dems, but is there any sign of it? At the moment

:09:49.:09:53.

the thing that Tim Farron could do to get noticed would be to go

:09:54.:09:56.

skinny-dipping off Brighton beach because it might get him some press

:09:57.:09:59.

attention. He gave quite an interesting speech which I'm afraid

:10:00.:10:03.

I read on my mobile phone rather than watching in person, which tells

:10:04.:10:05.

a tale itself. This is a guy trying to rebuild locally, get

:10:06.:10:24.

councillors elected again, being relatively successful at that, they

:10:25.:10:26.

just got a 38% swing in athletes the other day against the Labour Party,

:10:27.:10:29.

but it is a long road back and at the moment they are not exploiting

:10:30.:10:32.

the national opportunity they have got. I think the problem they have

:10:33.:10:34.

got is their grassroots network is so depleted, the opposite situation

:10:35.:10:37.

to the Labour Party. They do not have the kind of infrastructure any

:10:38.:10:40.

more, there are no resources, human or financial resources, they don't

:10:41.:10:44.

have the people to go out there and knock on doors. Tim Farron, a great

:10:45.:10:48.

and lovely guy, but he doesn't provide the most charismatic of

:10:49.:10:51.

leadership and they really deep to find something to pin a revival on,

:10:52.:10:57.

and at the moment it isn't there. I am more upbeat than these two, it is

:10:58.:11:01.

a long road back that there is a space down the middle between their

:11:02.:11:07.

Labour is and the Conservatives are, it is very authoritarian at the Home

:11:08.:11:11.

Office which opens up a space for a Liberal party. They have only got

:11:12.:11:14.

eight MPs, if they had more, we would be paying more attention to

:11:15.:11:18.

them. Attention is one of the problems, getting attention is

:11:19.:11:21.

difficult for them, there will not be that many senior journalists at

:11:22.:11:25.

the Lib Dem conference. Then never used to be. We are going way back to

:11:26.:11:30.

where it Lib Dems used to be a long time ago. But it is worse, if you

:11:31.:11:44.

look ten years ago at least they had a reasonable cohort but I don't

:11:45.:11:48.

think the number of MPs is the issue. To get attention you have got

:11:49.:11:51.

to be spiky, punchy, pumping out controversial press releases, they

:11:52.:11:53.

are not doing that. But they have an advantage over Labour, they are used

:11:54.:11:56.

to talking to people who disagree with them, there are relatively few

:11:57.:11:58.

friendly ears for the Lib Dem, and I think there are some signs of

:11:59.:12:01.

resurgence but it is a long road back. There is a new Tory group

:12:02.:12:07.

campaigning for hard Brexit. It is fair to say that the longer Mrs May

:12:08.:12:13.

waits to trigger article 50, the more Tory divisions will come to the

:12:14.:12:19.

surface? I think that is fair enough, absolutely, but I have some

:12:20.:12:24.

sympathy with her position of leaving it until she has got her

:12:25.:12:28.

ducks in a row. Once Article 50 is triggered, there is a limited time

:12:29.:12:32.

frame to work out the negotiations, and you had an interesting guest

:12:33.:12:37.

earlier, we had David Liddington who spent so long on the European

:12:38.:12:42.

diplomatic circuit, and his view is that you do need time to work all

:12:43.:12:46.

this out before you press the button on it. So not this side of New Year?

:12:47.:12:52.

But you cannot leave it forever because there are European elections

:12:53.:12:55.

coming up, it would be ludicrous to be in a position where we are

:12:56.:13:02.

re-elected MEPs. I will out myself as a moaning Remainer. Nigel Farage

:13:03.:13:08.

this morning said people voted to get out of the single market. Did

:13:09.:13:13.

they? Again, no one knows what Brexit means. We will talk more

:13:14.:13:14.

about that as autumn progresses. Jo Coburn will be back

:13:15.:13:17.

on BBC Two tomorrow at noon with coverage of the Lib Dem

:13:18.:13:21.

conference in Brighton. I will bring Tim Farron's speech on

:13:22.:13:23.

Tuesday. And I'll be back with more

:13:24.:13:27.

Sunday Politics live from the Labour conference in Liverpool

:13:28.:13:30.

here on BBC One next Sunday at 11am. Remember, if it's Sunday,

:13:31.:13:32.

it's the Sunday Politics.

:13:33.:13:39.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS