Browse content similar to 02/10/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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This programme contains some flashing images. | :00:00. | :00:08. | |
We're live from sunny Birmingham on day one of | :00:09. | :00:10. | |
the Conservative Party Conference, where, three months after Britain | :00:11. | :00:12. | |
voted to leave the European Union, the Prime Minister has given | :00:13. | :00:15. | |
us her first inkling of how she plans to do it. | :00:16. | :00:51. | |
Morning, folks - welcome to the Sunday Politics. | :00:52. | :00:54. | |
Theresa May says she will trigger Article 50, starting the two year | :00:55. | :00:57. | |
process of negotiations that will culminate in Britain | :00:58. | :00:59. | |
leaving the EU, before the end of March next year. | :01:00. | :01:03. | |
So Brexit by Easter 2019 - but what kind of relationship | :01:04. | :01:05. | |
A Great Repeal Bill will also be voted on next Spring, | :01:06. | :01:13. | |
but won't be enacted until we leave, at which point EU laws will be | :01:14. | :01:18. | |
And what do Conservative MPs want to hear from their new leader? | :01:19. | :01:34. | |
We catch up with a Brexiteer and a Remainer as they pack | :01:35. | :01:37. | |
In the capital, if London was defined by the conservatism of the | :01:38. | :01:46. | |
Notting Hill set, what now? We explore the potential rise of Sidcup | :01:47. | :01:48. | |
Man. So far no Great Repeal Act to get | :01:49. | :01:51. | |
rid of the Sunday Politics Panel - Steve Richards, Rachel Sylvester | :01:52. | :01:57. | |
and Tom Newton Dunn. It's 100 days since we voted | :01:58. | :02:05. | |
to leave the EU and the clamour has grown for the Government to tell us | :02:06. | :02:08. | |
what Brexit would look like. This morning, as the Tory faithful | :02:09. | :02:11. | |
gather in Birmingham, we still don't expect to be told | :02:12. | :02:16. | |
what Brexit means but we do know more about the timetable | :02:17. | :02:20. | |
and the extrication process. A Bill will go before parliament | :02:21. | :02:22. | |
this spring to repeal the 1972 European Communities Act, | :02:23. | :02:25. | |
which legalised our membership But it won't actually come | :02:26. | :02:27. | |
into force until we leave. Theresa May also told | :02:28. | :02:37. | |
the Andrew Marr Show that Article 50 would be invoked | :02:38. | :02:39. | |
by March of next year - starting the two year process | :02:40. | :02:42. | |
of renegotiation before we leave. I have been saying we would not | :02:43. | :02:52. | |
trigger it before the end of this year, so that we get confirmation in | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
place. I will be saying in my speech today that we will trigger before | :02:57. | :02:59. | |
the end of March next year. The remaining members of the EU have to | :03:00. | :03:03. | |
decide what the process of negotiation is. I hope, and I will | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
be saying to them, that now they know what the time is going to be, | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
it is not an exact date, but they know it will be the first quarter of | :03:12. | :03:17. | |
next year, that we will be able to have some preparatory work so that | :03:18. | :03:20. | |
once the trigger comes we have a smoother process of negotiation. | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
Theresa May, on this channel, just over an hour ago. What do you make | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
of it? Saggy as you said, we know more about when but we don't know | :03:29. | :03:32. | |
what Brexit is going to be. We don't know how the relationship will work | :03:33. | :03:38. | |
out, we don't know what the Prime Minister's negotiation position will | :03:39. | :03:41. | |
be, we haven't worked out anything about the free market access and | :03:42. | :03:44. | |
freedom of movement. All of the substance. It is a significant | :03:45. | :03:48. | |
announcement but we don't actually know anything really big about what | :03:49. | :03:52. | |
our lives are going to be like in future. Is there a risk from the | :03:53. | :03:57. | |
Prime Minister? Is there a risk putting this before Parliament to | :03:58. | :04:03. | |
repeal the 1972 Communities Act? Undoubtedly. Anything you put before | :04:04. | :04:12. | |
the House of Commons or the House of Lords, where there is no Tory | :04:13. | :04:14. | |
majority, let alone a Brexit majority, risks getting amended. She | :04:15. | :04:19. | |
runs the risk. There is also a risk of not saying this, not having the | :04:20. | :04:23. | |
greater appeal, which is actually a great repeal act, when is being | :04:24. | :04:32. | |
repealed, but she needed to throw the Tory right red meat, and they | :04:33. | :04:36. | |
got it this morning. There is always the potential of a constitutional | :04:37. | :04:42. | |
crisis. If the Lords were to dig in over this, or even digging over | :04:43. | :04:47. | |
Article 50, demand a vote on that, lawyers are arguing whether you need | :04:48. | :04:50. | |
it or not, it may not be plain sailing when you have a majority of | :04:51. | :04:55. | |
12? It definitely isn't going to be with a majority of 12. The scope for | :04:56. | :05:00. | |
constitutional crisis is many. Clashes with the Lords, clashes with | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
the Commons, Scotland is still there in the background allows a | :05:06. | :05:11. | |
significant factor. It will always be there, but perhaps in a different | :05:12. | :05:15. | |
context. I don't think this will be the trigger for a constitutional | :05:16. | :05:21. | |
crisis. You have to admire the elegant choreography. I was told | :05:22. | :05:25. | |
ages ago that she knew she could not keep carry on saying Brexit means | :05:26. | :05:29. | |
Brexit, there will have to be new lines. This is beautiful. We kind of | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
knew that Article 50 was going to be triggered early in next year. David | :05:35. | :05:38. | |
Davis even said that. It was a fair bet it would be before Easter. They | :05:39. | :05:43. | |
couldn't spend the next two years negotiating Brexit and refocusing | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
the entire legislative programme to spend the next two years rejigging | :05:50. | :05:52. | |
the mountain of legislation we are affected with. They have turned a | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
logistical, unavoidable inevitability into a sense of | :05:57. | :06:00. | |
momentum this weekend. Very clever presentation. There are going to be | :06:01. | :06:07. | |
huge crises to come over this. Picking off the 1972 Act, putting it | :06:08. | :06:14. | |
all into British law and legislation, rather than dependent | :06:15. | :06:19. | |
on Europe, that is what the Brexiteers wanted. To that extent, | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
she has thrown them a bit of red meat today? Yes, but we still don't | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
know what Brexit is going to be. But a bit of red meat keeps you going | :06:29. | :06:34. | |
for a while. Maybe get them through to lunch time. Today or tomorrow? | :06:35. | :06:42. | |
Really just today. The tactic is to get some stuff about Brexit out, get | :06:43. | :06:46. | |
them talking about that and then move onto agenda she wants, | :06:47. | :06:52. | |
domestic. What do you think? Good luck with that! Are you reading my | :06:53. | :07:00. | |
script coming up? It was on the autocue, I'm sorry! Clearly, she is | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
accessed about not making his premiership all about Brexit. It | :07:04. | :07:09. | |
will be, but she is desperate. She needs to define herself away from | :07:10. | :07:14. | |
Brexit, who is Theresa May, what did she really believe? We have heard | :07:15. | :07:17. | |
whispers, but the next few days as a chance to do that. The fringe, Liam | :07:18. | :07:27. | |
Fox is talking at two fringes. Two opportunities for a story. David | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
Davis as well. These two men of great talent and potentially great | :07:32. | :07:34. | |
ego, they will not be able to stop themselves having feelings heard. | :07:35. | :07:41. | |
And Boris. Boris who? I have not seen him on the fringes. Fringe | :07:42. | :07:46. | |
meetings have been quite dull at party conferences recently. Because | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
of this issue, I think people are going to pack them out. That is | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
where words might be said, explosive words. We live for fringe meetings! | :07:56. | :07:58. | |
The PM hopes her announcement will deal with Brexit on day one | :07:59. | :08:01. | |
so the conference can get on to talk about other matters. | :08:02. | :08:03. | |
But as you can see from this not so slim tome - the conference guide- | :08:04. | :08:13. | |
there are plenty of other issues to talk, maybe even argue about. | :08:14. | :08:18. | |
Our Ellie caught up with two Tory MPs from different sides | :08:19. | :08:20. | |
of the party before they set off, to see what they think lies in store | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
# Just can't wait to get on the road again | :08:25. | :08:33. | |
# The life I love is making music with my friends | :08:34. | :08:37. | |
# And I can't wait to get on the road again...# | :08:38. | :08:42. | |
Do you actually enjoy going to conference? | :08:43. | :08:44. | |
It's not as much fun as when you're not an MP, | :08:45. | :08:48. | |
because now people want to talk to you and everybody | :08:49. | :08:51. | |
But do you make contacts, do you network? | :08:52. | :08:56. | |
Do think Theresa May gets nervous about conference, | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
I think if you are performing on a big stage, whoever you are, | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
you ought to have a few nerves jangling around. | :09:06. | :09:07. | |
But she's a polished performer, I'm sure she'll know | :09:08. | :09:10. | |
Theresa May will also know she has several contentious issues she needs | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
It is perhaps not surprising, then, that day one of | :09:16. | :09:19. | |
We're pretty well balanced between those of us like myself, | :09:20. | :09:29. | |
representing constituencies with really high levels | :09:30. | :09:30. | |
of research, science and agriculture, who will be very | :09:31. | :09:32. | |
keen, but probably pragmatically understanding that we are not | :09:33. | :09:35. | |
going to hear everything tomorrow, and the rest | :09:36. | :09:36. | |
of the party who are just desperate for information. | :09:37. | :09:41. | |
If they don't think the deal is going in the right way, | :09:42. | :09:45. | |
they will want to say something about it. | :09:46. | :09:47. | |
I think the time frame is pretty clear. | :09:48. | :09:49. | |
We are going to trigger Article 50 at some point relatively | :09:50. | :09:52. | |
That means we will get the negotiations done a good year | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
The rest is going to be important meat on the bones. | :09:57. | :09:59. | |
But, in terms of the core strategy, Theresa May goes into this | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
So, a unified front, albeit perhaps fragile. | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
But then there is the question of grammar schools. | :10:06. | :10:09. | |
Depends whether we hear more about it. | :10:10. | :10:12. | |
You know, the concept in its one-dimensional sense, | :10:13. | :10:14. | |
you can't have a problem with that, can you? | :10:15. | :10:19. | |
Giving parents choice, giving bright children the chance | :10:20. | :10:21. | |
But, for me, for many of us, it has to be a package | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
Our teachers are pretty stressed and overworked | :10:26. | :10:27. | |
I'm not actually sure this is the right time. | :10:28. | :10:31. | |
I would rather see emphasis being put on fairer funding. | :10:32. | :10:34. | |
Constituencies like mine have been underfunded for decades. | :10:35. | :10:35. | |
If you go into politics and government scared | :10:36. | :10:38. | |
of your own shadow, unprepared to do anything bold or brave, | :10:39. | :10:40. | |
I think there is no risk-free option. | :10:41. | :10:45. | |
Of course, people have different views on grammar schools | :10:46. | :10:47. | |
and it is a totemic political issue as well. | :10:48. | :10:49. | |
But I think if you read the green paper, the Prime Minister has set | :10:50. | :10:53. | |
out a very sensible, carefully calibrated approach, | :10:54. | :10:54. | |
not just to grammar schools but the wider | :10:55. | :10:56. | |
The new PM also faces big strategic decisions on expensive projects | :10:57. | :11:04. | |
like airport expansion, an area even her Cabinet | :11:05. | :11:06. | |
With all these big infrastructure projects, HS2, Heathrow, | :11:07. | :11:12. | |
issues around fracking, nuclear as well, I think we have got | :11:13. | :11:15. | |
to take the right decisions for the country, make sure Britain | :11:16. | :11:17. | |
Each one of those is thorny in its own right. | :11:18. | :11:24. | |
But what I think is most important is we look at it very carefully, | :11:25. | :11:27. | |
That is where we all start to see the metal in Theresa, | :11:28. | :11:31. | |
Whilst on the one hand, having a Prime Minister - | :11:32. | :11:36. | |
nobody could have been more delighted than me that we managed | :11:37. | :11:38. | |
to cut the tax credits changes - but having a Prime Minister | :11:39. | :11:41. | |
that sticks to her guns, I'm not for U-turning, | :11:42. | :11:43. | |
How confident are you, going to this conference, | :11:44. | :11:49. | |
that it is all going to be sorted and you are going to be | :11:50. | :11:52. | |
Well, people predicted an economic nosedive after the referendum. | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
People said there would be political chaos. | :11:57. | :11:58. | |
Actually, the economy has proved resilient. | :11:59. | :12:00. | |
I think there is a sense of resolve on all sides of the party | :12:01. | :12:08. | |
on all of these different issues to get behind this Prime Minister | :12:09. | :12:11. | |
Last year, you got into a bit of trouble, being quite vocal | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
Some suggestion you weren't a proper conservative. | :12:17. | :12:19. | |
I think I am absolutely a proper conservative. | :12:20. | :12:22. | |
I think my party needed reminding what conservative was. | :12:23. | :12:26. | |
Our job is to help people who need a leg up. | :12:27. | :12:28. | |
Her opening speech in Downing Street told me she absolutely is. | :12:29. | :12:37. | |
Like all of these things, we will hear more about this week. | :12:38. | :12:40. | |
# And I can't wait to get on the road again. # | :12:41. | :12:51. | |
And we're joined now by the Transport Secretary, | :12:52. | :12:53. | |
who was a leading Leave campaigner, Chris Grayling. | :12:54. | :12:59. | |
Welcome back to the programme. The great repeal act, what exactly does | :13:00. | :13:09. | |
it repeal? It repeal the 1972 European Communities Act. It means | :13:10. | :13:12. | |
the European Court of Justice no longer has sway in the United | :13:13. | :13:15. | |
Kingdom. It means the European Commission and Parliament no longer | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
make laws for us. As of today, in our system, European law is supreme | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
over UK law, and it repeal that. Except what it does is it | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
consolidates all existing European legislation into British law. It | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
would be more accurate to call it the great Consolidation act? Is This | :13:33. | :13:37. | |
is what I argued for during the League campaign. The remaining | :13:38. | :13:40. | |
campaign said you could not do it, it will take years, it will be a | :13:41. | :13:45. | |
disaster. My response then is what it is now, the best way to do it is | :13:46. | :13:49. | |
to consolidate existing legislation, much of which we will want to keep, | :13:50. | :13:54. | |
the environmental measures, the workers' rights measures, what we | :13:55. | :13:58. | |
want to do is to make sure we can get certainty before the event and | :13:59. | :14:02. | |
after the event, for workers, businesses, but what the legal | :14:03. | :14:06. | |
position will be. Over time, we have the freedom, outside the European | :14:07. | :14:10. | |
Union, free from the control of the European Court, to change our legal | :14:11. | :14:13. | |
system in the way that we want. It does mean we would leave the EU with | :14:14. | :14:18. | |
all of this EU law still part of British law. Now, what would you | :14:19. | :14:25. | |
wish to change in the aftermath? There is a whole variety of | :14:26. | :14:28. | |
different things we will be looking at a change. For example, if you | :14:29. | :14:32. | |
want a practical one, it is unlikely that after we have left the European | :14:33. | :14:36. | |
Union we will still be paying child benefits to children that have never | :14:37. | :14:39. | |
even entered the United Kingdom. That is the kind of thing we will be | :14:40. | :14:43. | |
free to change after we have left. What else? Much of it we will want | :14:44. | :14:47. | |
to keep, environmental measures, not all that has been done in the | :14:48. | :14:51. | |
European Union for 40 years has been bad for Britain. How long will it | :14:52. | :14:55. | |
take to pick all of this after we leave? Will be down to the | :14:56. | :15:00. | |
Government to decide... Ten years? 20 years? It will take it as long as | :15:01. | :15:06. | |
we choose. What is right and proper is that on the day after there is a | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
degree of certainty for businesses. It would not be fair for a company | :15:11. | :15:14. | |
to be operating under a set of rules, for there to be a cliff edge | :15:15. | :15:17. | |
where they do not know what is going to happen the day after. Let's make | :15:18. | :15:24. | |
it an evolution, not a revolution. A lot of the things you have to agree | :15:25. | :15:27. | |
to enter negotiations mean it will have to remain law even after we | :15:28. | :15:31. | |
leave? This clearly the case that if a business in this country is | :15:32. | :15:34. | |
continuing to sell a product in the European Union, it will have to make | :15:35. | :15:37. | |
the standards of the European Union. Those rules will apply. That is the | :15:38. | :15:42. | |
same if we're selling to the United States, the rules of the United | :15:43. | :15:45. | |
States would apply to a business planning to sell a product there. | :15:46. | :15:53. | |
What happens if you lose the vote? It is inconceivable that Parliament | :15:54. | :15:56. | |
can look at the view of the British public and ignore it. Parliament | :15:57. | :16:00. | |
voted overwhelmingly for the referendum to take place in the | :16:01. | :16:03. | |
first place, the people have given a mandate and I am certain Parliament | :16:04. | :16:05. | |
will fulfil it. What would happen? You have a | :16:06. | :16:15. | |
majority of only 12 and there was a majority for remain in the Commons | :16:16. | :16:21. | |
and there is a large majority in the house of lords. If the parliament | :16:22. | :16:26. | |
does not seamlessly agree for what you call the great repeal act, what | :16:27. | :16:31. | |
would happen? Both houses are full of Democrats and they will respect | :16:32. | :16:39. | |
the will of the people. But we could be faced with a constitutional | :16:40. | :16:45. | |
crisis? We have taken the decision to leave and parliament voted for | :16:46. | :16:49. | |
the referendum and it is inconceivable that Parliament would | :16:50. | :16:53. | |
not allow that process to go forward. If the inconceivable | :16:54. | :17:02. | |
happen, you'd have to cores and -- call an election. Inconceivable is a | :17:03. | :17:09. | |
bit of a stretch. Plenty of voices, particularly in the House of Lords, | :17:10. | :17:19. | |
would use this as a an opportunity to thwart you. And I don't think the | :17:20. | :17:24. | |
House of Lords will turn around and say we should not fulfil that. There | :17:25. | :17:28. | |
may be dissenting voices but they will view it as a democratic mandate | :17:29. | :17:34. | |
that we have to fulfil. Has your party don soundings in the Commons | :17:35. | :17:38. | |
to make sure you can get this through? I've not been involved in | :17:39. | :17:44. | |
that discussion but parliament will respond to the will of the people. | :17:45. | :17:49. | |
That's the way this country works. That's what you hope. We shall see | :17:50. | :17:57. | |
how it works. We've been told by the Prime Minister this morning that | :17:58. | :18:00. | |
article 50 will be triggered by the end of March. That means that we are | :18:01. | :18:07. | |
out by Easter 2019. Can you confirm that those British members of the | :18:08. | :18:11. | |
European Parliament currently in Strasberg, there will be no more for | :18:12. | :18:18. | |
them after this. If we have left by the end of the two-year period. It | :18:19. | :18:24. | |
is technically possible to extend it. After that period, there | :18:25. | :18:27. | |
wouldn't be EP is after that point in 2019. -- MEPs. For Brexit to mean | :18:28. | :18:48. | |
Brexit, the famous phrase, which is basically tautology. It would mean | :18:49. | :18:51. | |
the freedom to have our own trade laws. It would mean the ability to | :18:52. | :19:00. | |
do that? You are leading me to answer questions about the specific | :19:01. | :19:08. | |
legal structures. It means our own free-trade deals? Correct. It would | :19:09. | :19:17. | |
mean we are no longer subject to the rules of the European Court of | :19:18. | :19:27. | |
Justice. Also correct. And we would have whatever control we desire over | :19:28. | :19:32. | |
immigration? The Prime Minister has been clear that we need to control | :19:33. | :19:35. | |
the flow of immigration into the country. Any of these counts as out | :19:36. | :19:41. | |
from being a member of the single market. So can we agree that there | :19:42. | :19:48. | |
is no way we can remain a member of the single market? There is no such | :19:49. | :19:52. | |
thing as a member of the single market. There are a number of | :19:53. | :19:55. | |
different trading agreements within the EU. We are effectively a member | :19:56. | :20:01. | |
of the single market now but we can't be after this. The question | :20:02. | :20:08. | |
you have asked me, do we want to be Norway, Switzerland, Canada when it | :20:09. | :20:13. | |
comes to trading arrangements? We want to be the United Kingdom. We | :20:14. | :20:17. | |
are the biggest customer of German car-makers, French farmers... I | :20:18. | :20:24. | |
don't want to have the referendum fight again. It seems as black as | :20:25. | :20:30. | |
black or as White is white that if you want all of that we cannot be a | :20:31. | :20:35. | |
member, we can have access on terms yet to be agreed, we will have a | :20:36. | :20:40. | |
relationship, but why cannot you say that we won't be a member in the way | :20:41. | :20:44. | |
that we are currently a member of the single market? We won't be a | :20:45. | :20:51. | |
member of the European Union but there is no such thing as a member | :20:52. | :20:56. | |
of the single market. There is no single market in services, for | :20:57. | :21:02. | |
example. There is but it is not as developed as goods. I believe we | :21:03. | :21:06. | |
will end up with a trading partnership with the European Union | :21:07. | :21:09. | |
on terms to be agreed that will work for both of us. Access but not | :21:10. | :21:16. | |
membership. You cannot be a fully paid-up member of the single market | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
without the European Court of Justice ruling on it and you don't | :21:21. | :21:24. | |
want that. I don't understand your problem. Your pre-merging -- | :21:25. | :21:33. | |
prejudging the outcome of negotiations. We want the best | :21:34. | :21:37. | |
possible trading arrangements with European neighbours and that is what | :21:38. | :21:40. | |
we will work towards. Where different to the other countries | :21:41. | :21:46. | |
that have been involved in these negotiations before. We have heard | :21:47. | :21:50. | |
all that before in the referendum and we wanted some clarity on what | :21:51. | :21:54. | |
it would mean. Transport, when will you give is the decision on runway | :21:55. | :22:00. | |
expansion? I'm not going to set a date today. I've spent the summer | :22:01. | :22:04. | |
looking at the three different options. We have three very well | :22:05. | :22:08. | |
presented packages. The airport commission has looked at it | :22:09. | :22:11. | |
carefully and the Prime Minister and I want to understand the options in | :22:12. | :22:15. | |
detail and understand the strengths and weaknesses of each and we will | :22:16. | :22:21. | |
reach our decision shortly. I'm not going to set a date on it. Shortly | :22:22. | :22:29. | |
means in this year, surely. I don't want to wait unnecessarily long to | :22:30. | :22:33. | |
take the decision but nor do I want to set a date so to to work towards | :22:34. | :22:41. | |
that. Will there be a free vote? I need to identify the best option for | :22:42. | :22:45. | |
Britain and take the best possible approach to get the support of | :22:46. | :22:50. | |
parliament Porritt. Will there be a free vote? Decisions have not been | :22:51. | :22:58. | |
taken but we will do the best for the interests of the country. | :22:59. | :23:06. | |
Theresa May has said the options for an expansion to Heathrow are | :23:07. | :23:14. | |
seriously flawed. Philip Hammond has described the Heathrow option as | :23:15. | :23:18. | |
dead as a Norwegian parrot. Can you be sure that the Prime Minister and | :23:19. | :23:21. | |
Anna Chancellor will vote for your proposal? We are looking at three | :23:22. | :23:27. | |
options that are very new. One of them is Heathrow. Warrant -- they | :23:28. | :23:37. | |
are very different options to what has been proposed in the past. They | :23:38. | :23:42. | |
are all very well crafted proposals. They are interesting and have | :23:43. | :23:47. | |
potential and we need to decide. That is why I am asking you. HS2, | :23:48. | :23:55. | |
high-speed train, can you state categorically it will go ahead? It's | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
due to start construction in the spring. The hybrids Bill Haas to | :24:01. | :24:04. | |
continue its passage through the house of law -- the hybrid Bill Haas | :24:05. | :24:14. | |
to continue through its passage in the house of lords. Will it be 2026? | :24:15. | :24:28. | |
Will it be on-time and on budget? The select committee of MPs said it | :24:29. | :24:33. | |
is unlikely and will certainly be over budget. I expected be | :24:34. | :24:46. | |
absolutely clear and on -- expected to be absolutely on-time and on | :24:47. | :24:51. | |
budget. The latest estimate for phase one, the core cast is ?14 | :24:52. | :24:56. | |
billion but there is contingency on top of that. How much? It is set to | :24:57. | :25:05. | |
Treasury rules. It is always going to be over. If you really believed | :25:06. | :25:11. | |
in the Northern powerhouse wouldn't this money be better spent instead | :25:12. | :25:19. | |
of making it quicker to come to and Birmingham from London in under 90 | :25:20. | :25:24. | |
minutes, which you already can, wouldn't it be better to spend the | :25:25. | :25:29. | |
money on state of the art road links between East and West in the north. | :25:30. | :25:45. | |
I think we need to do both. We can't get more freight onto rail without | :25:46. | :25:50. | |
creating more space. By taking fast trains off the West Coast main line | :25:51. | :25:56. | |
which is already busy and put fast freight trains onto the new route, | :25:57. | :26:03. | |
you create more capacity for places like Milton Keynes Dons Northampton, | :26:04. | :26:06. | |
Coventry. It is about making sure we have a transport system that can | :26:07. | :26:12. | |
cope with the demands of the 21st-century. Thank you very much. | :26:13. | :26:15. | |
Now, as we speak, voters in Hungary are going to the polls to vote | :26:16. | :26:18. | |
on whether to accept mandatory EU quotas for relocating migrants. | :26:19. | :26:21. | |
The country's government has been campaigning for voters to reject | :26:22. | :26:23. | |
the EU's proposals and has run a highly controversial campaign, | :26:24. | :26:26. | |
accusing migrants of terrorism and crime - and the Prime Minister | :26:27. | :26:29. | |
Viktor Orban has said today he'll quit if the country votes | :26:30. | :26:31. | |
In response to the ongoing migrant crisis, the EU wants to establish | :26:32. | :26:36. | |
a permanent European resettlement programme, under which, | :26:37. | :26:38. | |
member states must take their fair share of asylum seekers, | :26:39. | :26:40. | |
depending on the size of each country's population and economy. | :26:41. | :26:44. | |
If countries refuse, the European Commission has proposed | :26:45. | :26:46. | |
that they would incur a financial penalty of 250,000 euros per person, | :26:47. | :26:51. | |
to cover the cost of another country taking them. | :26:52. | :26:56. | |
Hungarian Foreign Minister Peter Szijjarto said the plan | :26:57. | :26:58. | |
Last year, Hungary rejected an emergency EU plan that would have | :26:59. | :27:03. | |
seen tens of thousands of refugees transferred out of the country | :27:04. | :27:07. | |
in return for accepting a quota of almost 1300 refugees | :27:08. | :27:10. | |
As an EU border country, Hungary has received 18,500 | :27:11. | :27:16. | |
In 2015, it received the most asylum applications relative | :27:17. | :27:23. | |
to its population of any EU state - 1800 for every 100,000 local people, | :27:24. | :27:28. | |
though the majority of those then travelled onwards to other | :27:29. | :27:31. | |
Although the referendum result will have no affect | :27:32. | :27:38. | |
on the EU's decision, the Hungarian government hopes | :27:39. | :27:40. | |
the weight of public opinion will help it resist the plans, | :27:41. | :27:43. | |
running a very controversial referendum campaign. | :27:44. | :27:46. | |
For example, this poster saying migrants carried out | :27:47. | :27:48. | |
We're joined now from Budapest by our Correspondent, Nick Thorpe. | :27:49. | :27:56. | |
I understand that the polls are pretty clear that the government | :27:57. | :28:04. | |
will win this referendum but it needs a turnout of at least 50% for | :28:05. | :28:09. | |
it to matter. What indication of turnout so far? As of 11am, turnout | :28:10. | :28:20. | |
was just over 16% of the electorate. We have an electrode of 8.3 million, | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
the government is campaigning strongly for a no vote. The | :28:26. | :28:31. | |
government have framed the question in such a way that it is hard to | :28:32. | :28:37. | |
vote, yes, we do want this imposed on us. The issue of turnout is | :28:38. | :28:49. | |
important because the opposition have campaigned not to vote or to | :28:50. | :28:57. | |
spoil votes. Even if the government wins on the numbers, if more people | :28:58. | :29:02. | |
vote against the quotas, is it a symbolic defeat for the government | :29:03. | :29:08. | |
if that was to happen? Some people will argue it would be a symbolic | :29:09. | :29:16. | |
defeat if they don't get 50%. We've heard that ministers are backing off | :29:17. | :29:20. | |
the whole issue of turnout. They are hoping for at least 3 million people | :29:21. | :29:27. | |
to vote. Even 4 million which would be the 50%, voting no to migrant | :29:28. | :29:33. | |
quotas. They say that all of those votes will give them a strong moral | :29:34. | :29:38. | |
hand. In the words of the Prime Minister, it will sharpen the | :29:39. | :29:41. | |
Hungarian sword in the battles ahead. Thank you very much. | :29:42. | :29:45. | |
Malin Bjork is Swedish MEP and Vice Chair of | :29:46. | :29:49. | |
the Confederal Group of the European United Left | :29:50. | :29:51. | |
Welcome to the programme. The quota system proposed already seem to be | :29:52. | :30:06. | |
dying if the Hungarians vote the way they are expected to today, that | :30:07. | :30:10. | |
will kill it, will it not? I think we should have it as a point of | :30:11. | :30:18. | |
departure whether we have seen that Hungary is a model in any of the | :30:19. | :30:24. | |
fields that we want hungry -- Europe to be. I don't think Hungary is the | :30:25. | :30:30. | |
model. I don't think we should give him the kind of weight that he | :30:31. | :30:35. | |
actually claims. He wants more weight to this referendum. I don't | :30:36. | :30:37. | |
think we should give it to him. It is not just Hungary, is it? There | :30:38. | :30:49. | |
are meant to be 100,000 migrants covered by the quota system, fewer | :30:50. | :30:53. | |
than 5% have been covered by it. It is just not happening, whether | :30:54. | :30:59. | |
Hungary votes for or against? No, it is totally... But that means it is | :31:00. | :31:03. | |
not operational, it is simply not working. There are serious | :31:04. | :31:06. | |
criticisms to have towards implementing partners in this. But I | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
do think when it comes to the political course, Hungary is playing | :31:11. | :31:15. | |
a very dangerous, racist and right nationalist game. I don't think we | :31:16. | :31:20. | |
should adapt to it. If it comes to it, we have to be prepared to be | :31:21. | :31:25. | |
behind those that do not want to be the Europe that is taking | :31:26. | :31:28. | |
responsibility globally. Let me clarify what you mean by that. The | :31:29. | :31:33. | |
Foreign Minister of Luxembourg has already said that Hungary should be | :31:34. | :31:37. | |
expelled from the European Union. Is that what you are saying as well? | :31:38. | :31:44. | |
No, no. You know what I think? As a progressive politician on the left | :31:45. | :31:48. | |
side, I do have a lot of criticisms to the European Union. But there are | :31:49. | :31:53. | |
planets apart from the kind of models that Viktor Orban is trying | :31:54. | :31:59. | |
to build, where he does not respect human rights, laws and media | :32:00. | :32:03. | |
freedoms, and now he attacks refugee rights. Given all of that, let's | :32:04. | :32:08. | |
accept what you say is true about that, others may dispute it, but | :32:09. | :32:13. | |
let's accept that as true, why should Hungary remain a member of | :32:14. | :32:17. | |
the European Union? Well, it is up to each country that has voted to | :32:18. | :32:21. | |
stay, and voted to become members, voting to stay, I don't think Orban | :32:22. | :32:27. | |
has any intention of leaving EU. I think he wants more influence in the | :32:28. | :32:31. | |
EU. I think he wants more influence domestic league through the | :32:32. | :32:34. | |
referendum and more influence in the EU. The question the rest of the | :32:35. | :32:37. | |
countries have to ask themselves is if we are going to give it to him or | :32:38. | :32:42. | |
adapt to his politics in any of these fields he is active in? I | :32:43. | :32:45. | |
think we should make a stand against it. We should have political forces | :32:46. | :32:49. | |
in other countries that have exactly the same kind of agendas, which we | :32:50. | :32:55. | |
don't want to see strengthened. Isn't the problem that may be | :32:56. | :32:59. | |
Hungary is on the trend, and you are not? We have seem the right, some | :33:00. | :33:03. | |
may call it the far right even, on the march in Austria, Poland and in | :33:04. | :33:09. | |
Hungary, even in Germany, with the recent elections in Berlin and | :33:10. | :33:14. | |
Angela Merkel's backyard, even progressive social Democratic | :33:15. | :33:16. | |
Sweden, your third biggest party is now the Sweden, Democrats, a hard | :33:17. | :33:25. | |
right nativist party. Why are forces on the move, and while the forces | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
used and four on the defensive? The more progressive forces, I think | :33:31. | :33:34. | |
they are growing in many countries also, such as Spain, Ireland and | :33:35. | :33:38. | |
other countries. It is not just for the left, it is for the broader | :33:39. | :33:42. | |
political spectrum to counteract nationalist, right-wing and racist | :33:43. | :33:46. | |
forces. We know where they lead, a dead end. It is a challenge in the | :33:47. | :33:51. | |
European countries. Why is Europe going in this direction? In 2016, | :33:52. | :33:55. | |
why are the forces of the rights so strong? To be honest, I think we | :33:56. | :34:05. | |
have to be a little bit more humble and say are we failing people in | :34:06. | :34:09. | |
some way? Yes, austerity policies are not working. Inequalities have | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
grown for over 20 years in Europe. Of course it is a failure. We are | :34:14. | :34:19. | |
capable of saving banks, but not refugees. People see this. It is | :34:20. | :34:23. | |
political failure and I think we have to sit down and create | :34:24. | :34:26. | |
different pacifists. What is happening now is worrying. I see | :34:27. | :34:30. | |
some of the political forces in Europe. -- create different | :34:31. | :34:35. | |
patterns. I see parties in Europe adapting to racism nationalist | :34:36. | :34:44. | |
voices. I think we have to be the different parties that will not | :34:45. | :34:47. | |
adapt to nationalist stories. They paint imaginary enemies. A huge | :34:48. | :34:54. | |
chunk of Hungary's public spending comes from the European Union, net | :34:55. | :34:58. | |
contributors like Sweden and the United Kingdom. If Hungary votes | :34:59. | :35:03. | |
this way, should that continue? Should we continue to bankroll it? | :35:04. | :35:10. | |
The way Europe and the European Union, individual members develop, | :35:11. | :35:13. | |
of course we should lead discussions about money and heel spending to the | :35:14. | :35:19. | |
respect for rule of law, the respect for human rights and the respect for | :35:20. | :35:25. | |
international rights that are being infringed by the Hungarian | :35:26. | :35:28. | |
government. Of course, we have to have such a discussion and it has to | :35:29. | :35:30. | |
be frank. It's just gone 11.35, | :35:31. | :35:33. | |
you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers | :35:34. | :35:35. | |
in Scotland who leave us now In 20 minutes I will be talking to | :35:36. | :35:38. | |
Iain Duncan Smith. First, though, the | :35:39. | :35:47. | |
Sunday Politics where you are. I'm delighted to say this week, | :35:48. | :35:53. | |
with me, Kwasi Kwarteng, the Conservative MP for Spelthorne, | :35:54. | :35:58. | |
and Labour MP for Hampstead and Coming up a little bit later, | :35:59. | :36:01. | |
what is the new London Tory style? Are we seeing the demise | :36:02. | :36:07. | |
of Notting Hill conservatism and the beginning of the ascent | :36:08. | :36:10. | |
of Sidcup Man? First, this seemed to catch | :36:11. | :36:15. | |
everyone by surprise. Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe announced | :36:16. | :36:17. | |
he was standing down nearly as London's police chief, | :36:18. | :36:19. | |
attracting commendations for good service from a range | :36:20. | :36:21. | |
of public figures, Well, I, of course, | :36:22. | :36:23. | |
was the Home Secretary who first appointed Bernard Hogan-Howe | :36:24. | :36:30. | |
as Commissioner of the I must say, he's done | :36:31. | :36:32. | |
an excellent job in his time. He has been responsible | :36:33. | :36:37. | |
for the policing of London at what has been a difficult time, | :36:38. | :36:39. | |
given the level of terrorist threat He came with an excellent record | :36:40. | :36:42. | |
from Merseyside and I think His approach to total policing, | :36:43. | :36:50. | |
I think, has been of real I just wish him all the very best | :36:51. | :36:55. | |
for the future. Plenty of speculation, | :36:56. | :36:59. | |
as you would imagine, I have worked with people right | :37:00. | :37:01. | |
across different parties, different characters | :37:02. | :37:06. | |
over the last 15 years, really, as chairs of police | :37:07. | :37:08. | |
authorities in Merseyside, and Mayors down here, | :37:09. | :37:10. | |
and I have always The thing you have to build | :37:11. | :37:12. | |
is trust, and the thing you share as a common vision, | :37:13. | :37:16. | |
you have to keep people safe. Keith Prince has come | :37:17. | :37:19. | |
in for this first section, the Conservative assembly member | :37:20. | :37:23. | |
for Havering and Redbridge. As I suggested, a certain | :37:24. | :37:25. | |
amount of speculation He is going six months early, | :37:26. | :37:28. | |
which feels like a time Well, I think it is the | :37:29. | :37:35. | |
relationship, isn't it? Clearly, he does not | :37:36. | :37:45. | |
get on with Sadiq Khan. I think that is more of Sadiq's | :37:46. | :37:47. | |
making than it is Sir Bernard's. Sir Bernard has done a great job | :37:48. | :37:51. | |
in the five years he has been there. Many a time in public, | :37:52. | :37:55. | |
Sidiq has been critical, Well, we have asked questions | :37:56. | :37:59. | |
of Sadiq in our meetings and he has He was critical around | :38:00. | :38:07. | |
the issue around what people They were to prevent people | :38:08. | :38:10. | |
spitting at officers, and Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe had | :38:11. | :38:15. | |
recommended a pilot scheme, introducing this, and Sadiq Khan | :38:16. | :38:18. | |
made it clear he didn't We have already had one officer | :38:19. | :38:20. | |
who had hepatitis C as a result So, they were there | :38:21. | :38:34. | |
to protect officers. As soon as Sadiq heard about this, | :38:35. | :38:38. | |
he blocked it. Does he care about his image | :38:39. | :38:41. | |
or our hard-working servicemen? Are you saying this is something | :38:42. | :38:45. | |
new, what are you suggesting? That he is actively involving | :38:46. | :38:47. | |
himself in operational matters? He should not be involving himself | :38:48. | :38:49. | |
in operational matters, and he is. He wants to call the shots, he wants | :38:50. | :38:56. | |
to dictate what is going on. Clearly Sir Bernard, | :38:57. | :38:59. | |
being the gentleman that he is and being a professional, | :39:00. | :39:01. | |
and also being a Yorkshireman, has his own views on how he thinks | :39:02. | :39:04. | |
the police should be run. Tulip Siddiq, what do | :39:05. | :39:07. | |
you think about this? I think, actually Keith | :39:08. | :39:17. | |
is being unfair on Sidiq Khan. At the hustings I attended, | :39:18. | :39:19. | |
Sidiq was talking about how good Sir Bernard had been, | :39:20. | :39:22. | |
how much work he had done, especially in policing | :39:23. | :39:24. | |
the Olympics and the 2011 riots. Look, he's choosing to go, | :39:25. | :39:27. | |
he's choosing to retire early. He has his own reasons | :39:28. | :39:32. | |
for doing that. But we shouldn't talk about politics | :39:33. | :39:34. | |
because Amber Rudd is going to have a say in selecting | :39:35. | :39:37. | |
who the next person is. It also has to be someone | :39:38. | :39:39. | |
who has reached that rank. You can't just pluck a figure out | :39:40. | :39:42. | |
of the air and decide, right, he's going to have the most | :39:43. | :39:45. | |
important job in policing. It will be a combination | :39:46. | :39:48. | |
of Sadiq Khan and Amber Rudd, who I may remind everyone | :39:49. | :39:50. | |
is actually a Conservative You all know the system, | :39:51. | :39:52. | |
it is the Home Secretary that makes We know what happened in terms | :39:53. | :39:58. | |
of Boris Johnson and Theresa May There is no doubt that there | :39:59. | :40:04. | |
is some politics involved. I think you are quite right to say | :40:05. | :40:09. | |
that there is some friction Is it worth pointing out, | :40:10. | :40:12. | |
just at this stage, that Boris Johnson and his deputy, | :40:13. | :40:17. | |
Steven Greenhouse, were not aware of this trial of the policy around | :40:18. | :40:20. | |
spit hoods either? You could argue Sadiq Khan was just | :40:21. | :40:25. | |
saying that we need to have some public consultation on this | :40:26. | :40:29. | |
before you introduce that. There is a narrow line | :40:30. | :40:31. | |
about whether that is I think Sidiq has | :40:32. | :40:33. | |
been very political. He has political skills, | :40:34. | :40:36. | |
that is why he is where he is. I think he has taken a view, | :40:37. | :40:40. | |
and Sir Bernard has taken a view that it is best for the both of them | :40:41. | :40:44. | |
if Sir Bernard's resignation, That, actually, he had five very | :40:45. | :40:47. | |
good years, a new Mayor comes in with a new mandate, | :40:48. | :40:53. | |
do you think we shouldn't have a problem with a Mayor thinking | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
he wants somebody new? I am a politician, | :40:58. | :40:59. | |
I know what politicians In any organisation, | :41:00. | :41:02. | |
not just politics, people want to get their own people around | :41:03. | :41:05. | |
them because they feel We have just had a reshuffle | :41:06. | :41:08. | |
earlier this year in Government, where lots of people | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
left the Government. It is completely inevitable that | :41:13. | :41:14. | |
a new leader will want a new team. I think this has been elegantly | :41:15. | :41:17. | |
managed. But we can't pretend | :41:18. | :41:19. | |
that everything... You know, that they had a great | :41:20. | :41:21. | |
working relationship If that was the case, | :41:22. | :41:23. | |
that they didn't particularly have a good relationship, | :41:24. | :41:28. | |
there is a personal thing, he's going to be going in September | :41:29. | :41:30. | |
anyway, it is a few months, plenty of time to | :41:31. | :41:33. | |
choose his successor? The man was probably going to go | :41:34. | :41:35. | |
in September anyway. That would have given the Mayor | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
and the Home Secretary, and don't forget, it has to go past | :41:41. | :41:42. | |
the Queen as well come We know there is no one actually | :41:43. | :41:45. | |
outstanding that is It's going to take quite a few | :41:46. | :41:50. | |
months to sort that out. By the time February comes, | :41:51. | :41:55. | |
will we have somebody in post, or will London be | :41:56. | :41:58. | |
without a commissioner? Keith Prince, we can probably point | :41:59. | :42:00. | |
out, here is somebody going of their own choosing, | :42:01. | :42:03. | |
at least the transition will not be one of crisis that we | :42:04. | :42:06. | |
have had in the past? Thanks very much indeed | :42:07. | :42:09. | |
for coming in. Now, given the importance | :42:10. | :42:11. | |
of international talent, foreign workers to London's economy, | :42:12. | :42:14. | |
would it be possible, post-Brexit, for more flexible immigration | :42:15. | :42:17. | |
arrangements than the rest Some like the idea of a London | :42:18. | :42:19. | |
visa or work permit. This week I tried to find out | :42:20. | :42:25. | |
whether the Prime Minister might be What we are doing in | :42:26. | :42:29. | |
the preparations we are making before we trigger Article 50, | :42:30. | :42:36. | |
and of course those are preparatory for negotiations for Brexit, | :42:37. | :42:38. | |
is listening to various sectors of the economy, listening to various | :42:39. | :42:40. | |
parts of the country, of the United Kingdom, | :42:41. | :42:43. | |
to make sure we understand the particular issues that | :42:44. | :42:46. | |
are there that we need to take account of as we prepare | :42:47. | :42:49. | |
for these negotiations. We are going to make | :42:50. | :42:53. | |
a success of Brexit. We are going to make a success | :42:54. | :42:57. | |
of the opportunities that will then be available to us when we leave | :42:58. | :43:01. | |
the European Union as well. Would you contemplate | :43:02. | :43:04. | |
looser immigration Suggestions have been made for work | :43:05. | :43:05. | |
permits or visas that are separate for London, | :43:06. | :43:08. | |
to reflect that it has a slightly more liberal attitude | :43:09. | :43:11. | |
towards immigration? Well, one of the clear | :43:12. | :43:13. | |
messages that came in controlling movement from | :43:14. | :43:18. | |
the European Union into the United Of course, we're talking | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
to all parts of the country. And all businesses across all parts | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
of the country and that includes the City | :43:27. | :43:28. | |
of London about the needs that they will have in relation to | :43:29. | :43:31. | |
the negotiations for Brexit and what they hope for when we've | :43:32. | :43:35. | |
left the European Union. Do you accept that your perceived | :43:36. | :43:38. | |
brand of toughness on immigration is something that | :43:39. | :43:40. | |
could potentially damage Well, the response I'm giving | :43:41. | :43:43. | |
in relation to immigration is based on the views | :43:44. | :43:53. | |
of the British people. People voted to leave | :43:54. | :43:56. | |
the European Union. They wanted to see their government | :43:57. | :43:57. | |
able to control the movement of people into the EU into | :43:58. | :44:02. | |
the UK and we will deliver on that. If there is a difference | :44:03. | :44:06. | |
in London, which people say there is, how are | :44:07. | :44:11. | |
you going to deal with that? I don't see why London should | :44:12. | :44:14. | |
get special status. The whole point about controlling | :44:15. | :44:16. | |
freedom of movement is that we want to stop people, as it | :44:17. | :44:19. | |
were, coming on spec. If you've got a job, | :44:20. | :44:25. | |
you'll be able to come, I imagine. So, there's no reason, | :44:26. | :44:28. | |
if that operates, why London should be treated | :44:29. | :44:30. | |
differently from the rest of the What do you think | :44:31. | :44:32. | |
about the concept of a There are examples of regionalised | :44:33. | :44:45. | |
systems, like Canada, I do think London is a special case, | :44:46. | :44:49. | |
in terms of the number of people who I think, what I worry about, | :44:50. | :44:54. | |
listening to Theresa May is that the EU referendum was not a proxy | :44:55. | :45:00. | |
vote on immigration. For me, we do need to talk | :45:01. | :45:02. | |
about the benefits of immigration and how much money | :45:03. | :45:07. | |
European migrants have actually In the last ten years, | :45:08. | :45:09. | |
it's been ?20 billion that they've contributed | :45:10. | :45:14. | |
and we need to talk about that. I do agree that we need to have some | :45:15. | :45:19. | |
system where we monitor how many people | :45:20. | :45:24. | |
are in the country, how many people leave, | :45:25. | :45:30. | |
but let's not forget the benefits proxy vote on immigration which is | :45:31. | :45:32. | |
what it seems to have happened. I mean, everyone's is son | :45:33. | :45:37. | |
or daughter of an immigrant at some point in their history but, | :45:38. | :45:42. | |
you know, lots of recent arrivals have made a huge impact, | :45:43. | :45:45. | |
there's no The issue that has always been | :45:46. | :45:46. | |
the case is one of control. Under the EU rules, you've got this | :45:47. | :45:50. | |
issue of free movement which millions of people have an issue | :45:51. | :45:54. | |
with because you're essentially saying, you're going to import | :45:55. | :45:56. | |
150,000 people every single year. I think the vote, there | :45:57. | :45:59. | |
were lots of things that drove people to vote, | :46:00. | :46:07. | |
influenced the Brexit vote, but I think a lot of it was to do | :46:08. | :46:09. | |
with being able to control Wasn't it for your leader | :46:10. | :46:13. | |
to say, not really hung up by numbers, I'm not | :46:14. | :46:16. | |
going to impose any kind of limit, in other words, it was read | :46:17. | :46:19. | |
as we can have Look, what I would | :46:20. | :46:22. | |
say, certainly in my constituency, immigration enriches | :46:23. | :46:24. | |
the community that we live in. In terms of the number | :46:25. | :46:27. | |
of people, we've already seen that putting an | :46:28. | :46:29. | |
arbitrary figure on how many people can come into the country has not | :46:30. | :46:31. | |
worked for Theresa May, has not I don't think you can | :46:32. | :46:34. | |
actually put an arbitrary figure or cap on it | :46:35. | :46:37. | |
because they certainly didn't meet But you can indicate an absolute | :46:38. | :46:40. | |
direction of travel and a I think the intent is to | :46:41. | :46:50. | |
monitor how many people Don't forget about the thousands | :46:51. | :46:56. | |
of British people who live outside and who live in Europe, | :46:57. | :47:00. | |
what are we going to do about them? I think you have to have an overall | :47:01. | :47:03. | |
picture before you make a decision Are you assuming that Theresa May | :47:04. | :47:09. | |
and your government will not go down I haven't really thought | :47:10. | :47:14. | |
about how you would implement it, in reality, | :47:15. | :47:22. | |
having a London only permit. Would that prevent you from going | :47:23. | :47:28. | |
to Watford, or Oxford, or wherever | :47:29. | :47:31. | |
it might be, to work? I don't know how that | :47:32. | :47:36. | |
would work in practice. What I would say about | :47:37. | :47:38. | |
Jeremy Corbyn is, I'm going to say nice things | :47:39. | :47:41. | |
about him, he's honest. He honestly believes | :47:42. | :47:43. | |
that we shouldn't really be | :47:44. | :47:44. | |
looking at targets. He represents Islington, | :47:45. | :47:47. | |
very multicultural community and he's very happy with not having | :47:48. | :47:50. | |
a cap on immigration. His problem is that a large section | :47:51. | :47:54. | |
of his base in the Labour Party, also Labour MPs, | :47:55. | :47:57. | |
do feel there should be some degree of oversight in terms of how many | :47:58. | :48:01. | |
people come in and they think it's I don't think it gets | :48:02. | :48:04. | |
said very often, so I'll definitely report back | :48:05. | :48:14. | |
to Jeremy. Are we in a position | :48:15. | :48:15. | |
to define what Theresa May's conservativism | :48:16. | :48:21. | |
will feel like in London yet? Is it goodbye to Notting | :48:22. | :48:24. | |
Hill and hello Sidcup? A place where, a little over ten | :48:25. | :48:26. | |
years ago, a group of ambitious Tories are said to have planned | :48:27. | :48:36. | |
a takeover of their party and then David Cameron, George Osborne, | :48:37. | :48:40. | |
Michael Gove, and their friends were called | :48:41. | :48:45. | |
the Notting Hill set. A phrase coined by the journalist | :48:46. | :48:56. | |
Peter Oborne. Peter knows a bit | :48:57. | :48:58. | |
about the neighbourhood. You may not be very close | :48:59. | :48:59. | |
to the English working class but you're really | :49:00. | :49:01. | |
close to the hedge fund managers. There are hedge fund managers | :49:02. | :49:04. | |
spikes all over here. So, how might all this inform | :49:05. | :49:07. | |
the way you saw the world? Immigration is only a good thing | :49:08. | :49:09. | |
if you live in Notting Hill because you have your expensive | :49:10. | :49:12. | |
house, and your surly English plumber is undercut by the go-ahead | :49:13. | :49:19. | |
Polish plumber, If you're a shareholder | :49:20. | :49:20. | |
of the company, you have shares in, the price of labour has been driven | :49:21. | :49:26. | |
down by mass immigration and that's terrific because it | :49:27. | :49:29. | |
means more profits for you take a benign view | :49:30. | :49:33. | |
of immigration and it only impacts on you personally | :49:34. | :49:38. | |
as a good thing. So, could it be that | :49:39. | :49:42. | |
Notting Hill was part It's not as ridiculous | :49:43. | :49:44. | |
as, perhaps, it immediately sounds | :49:45. | :49:48. | |
because if the vote to leave the EU | :49:49. | :49:59. | |
really was, as some people think, a rebellion | :50:00. | :50:01. | |
against a metropolitan, wealthy, liberal elite, the idea | :50:02. | :50:02. | |
that the most powerful in the country were happiest around | :50:03. | :50:04. | |
here in a bistro, Just hours into the job a Prime | :50:05. | :50:07. | |
Minister, Theresa May wasted no time telling the nation that she wasn't | :50:08. | :50:11. | |
trapped in an elitist bubble. I know that sometimes | :50:12. | :50:14. | |
life can be a struggle. The government I lead will be | :50:15. | :50:16. | |
driven, not by the interests So, how is Theresa May going down | :50:17. | :50:19. | |
in places like Sidcup Where ?400,000 still buys | :50:20. | :50:23. | |
you a house and not There's even a grammar | :50:24. | :50:26. | |
school around the corner. Do you think she's more likeable | :50:27. | :50:30. | |
than David Cameron? Probably not. | :50:31. | :50:32. | |
It's hard to say. Well, let's give her a chance. | :50:33. | :50:34. | |
I personally don't think so. But, to be fair, | :50:35. | :50:39. | |
we've got to give her a chance. I think she's got God in her life | :50:40. | :50:41. | |
and I think, you know, I don't know too much about her just | :50:42. | :50:45. | |
yet so it's not fair for me to say anything about her until I know | :50:46. | :50:50. | |
more about her myself. For all those locals looking | :50:51. | :50:58. | |
for a steer on what the new Prime Minister is like, | :50:59. | :51:00. | |
they could do worse After all, he worked with | :51:01. | :51:03. | |
Theresa May for five years at the Home Office as a minister. | :51:04. | :51:06. | |
His name is James Brokenshire. Whether it's in Bexley, | :51:07. | :51:09. | |
where I am, Bethnal Green and Bow, or maybe out | :51:10. | :51:14. | |
into Barnet, it is that message of opportunity | :51:15. | :51:25. | |
of allowing people to get get a good school, get a good job | :51:26. | :51:27. | |
and ensure that they are seeing a really positive opportunity | :51:28. | :51:31. | |
from wherever they come from. Conservatives say that their | :51:32. | :51:34. | |
conference this week is going to We'll ask the new Housing minister | :51:35. | :51:36. | |
to give us a tip-off. One thing he told us to look out | :51:37. | :51:41. | |
for is recognition for people not just wanting to buy | :51:42. | :51:44. | |
a home but renters, as well. There's a lot of people in London | :51:45. | :51:47. | |
that rent as well and we need to have a policy | :51:48. | :51:49. | |
that is balanced, that seeks to try and improve their housing | :51:50. | :51:53. | |
conditions, so I want more people building homes for people to own, | :51:54. | :51:55. | |
more people building homes to rent in the private sector and more | :51:56. | :51:58. | |
affordable rented homes, as well. London is also going | :51:59. | :52:01. | |
to get new devolution and a decision on Heathrow's third | :52:02. | :52:04. | |
runway any day now. All will be spun as being decisions | :52:05. | :52:07. | |
made for ordinary people but, at least at the moment, | :52:08. | :52:10. | |
what's missing from all what the Prime Minister | :52:11. | :52:15. | |
is going to do about leaving the EU and | :52:16. | :52:17. | |
immigration. We've already talked about that, | :52:18. | :52:20. | |
so let's talk about this. Tulip, what do you see as a change | :52:21. | :52:23. | |
of style here? Is it more dangerous | :52:24. | :52:25. | |
to you in labour than the Look, I don't think she's been | :52:26. | :52:28. | |
in the job that long but Don't forget, this is the lady that | :52:29. | :52:32. | |
signed off the "Go home" vans. If we're talking | :52:33. | :52:37. | |
about immigration they caused huge discontent in my | :52:38. | :52:39. | |
constituency and within Hamstead and Kilburn generally, | :52:40. | :52:45. | |
which is very multicultural. Are you worried about her | :52:46. | :53:10. | |
as an electoral risk? Weakening your own | :53:11. | :53:12. | |
position, Labour's? Actually, you know | :53:13. | :53:13. | |
what I am worried about? I'm worried about the fact | :53:14. | :53:15. | |
that she said Brexit is Brexit but that actually not elaborated | :53:16. | :53:18. | |
on what it means. It feels like she's | :53:19. | :53:21. | |
only person in the world who knows what Brexit means. | :53:22. | :53:24. | |
What's really worried me in the last few weeks, | :53:25. | :53:27. | |
and I'm sure you're aware of it is that this harks back to | :53:28. | :53:30. | |
You can't sit on the steps of Downing Street and talk | :53:31. | :53:34. | |
about not working for a privileged few and then talk about bringing | :53:35. | :53:37. | |
That has worried me tremendously. | :53:38. | :53:39. | |
What have we seen in these early days? | :53:40. | :53:43. | |
I think she has a less gilded sheen about her. | :53:44. | :53:46. | |
You've got to remember, she was a Conservative | :53:47. | :53:49. | |
councillor in Wimbledon for ten years, I think. | :53:50. | :53:51. | |
She's someone who knows the party, has come from the | :53:52. | :53:54. | |
grassroots, she's the daughter of a vicar, she herself went | :53:55. | :53:56. | |
Do you think there will be this very cultural move from Notting | :53:57. | :54:00. | |
I'm not trying to denigrate David Cameron I think | :54:01. | :54:03. | |
But I think people in my constituency will relate to someone | :54:04. | :54:07. | |
if not more, than they did to David Cameron. | :54:08. | :54:10. | |
We've heard about grammar schools but we've had to suggestions | :54:11. | :54:14. | |
What you think about breaking with David Cameron's legacy | :54:15. | :54:17. | |
I think she is evolving. Parties evolve. | :54:18. | :54:26. | |
That's why the Conservative Party is a successful party. | :54:27. | :54:28. | |
They evolve, they have different messages, they have | :54:29. | :54:30. | |
I think we're evolving. I think a new leadership. | :54:31. | :54:33. | |
I happen to support grammar schools, I think | :54:34. | :54:36. | |
It seems odd to me that of the people who are | :54:37. | :54:40. | |
against them tend to go to selective schools | :54:41. | :54:50. | |
What about the clear signal being sent about | :54:51. | :54:54. | |
shifting away from a lot of the resources and attention that went | :54:55. | :54:57. | |
into home ownership to renting, would you go with that? | :54:58. | :55:00. | |
Especially in a place like Spelthorne, which is | :55:01. | :55:03. | |
just outside London and within London itself. | :55:04. | :55:05. | |
You know, it costs, sometimes, ?400,000, as you said, to | :55:06. | :55:07. | |
So people feel that renting is something which is more | :55:08. | :55:11. | |
If they are moving towards addressing issues around rent, which | :55:12. | :55:15. | |
they acknowledge they have not been doing, that's important for | :55:16. | :55:17. | |
You share that and agree with that shift? | :55:18. | :55:21. | |
If that is what it is for the Conservative Party? | :55:22. | :55:24. | |
I support policies if they benefit constituents who are around me and | :55:25. | :55:27. | |
So, in the last manifesto, the Conservative Party | :55:28. | :55:29. | |
didn't mention anything about private renting, | :55:30. | :55:31. | |
So, if they are looking to address it, it's very important | :55:32. | :55:35. | |
because more and more people are renting and we need to protect | :55:36. | :55:38. | |
a lot of people who are renting from what goes on with private landlords | :55:39. | :55:41. | |
Jeremy Corbyn already mentioned it in his speech. | :55:42. | :55:45. | |
We've got to have some form of rent control if we want people to | :55:46. | :55:49. | |
Some people are saying that, maybe, a measure we | :55:50. | :55:52. | |
need is the stamp duty holiday, or to reverse some | :55:53. | :55:54. | |
of the restrictions put on people renting out property. | :55:55. | :55:57. | |
I tended to be slightly sceptical about those sorts of policies | :55:58. | :55:59. | |
because, if you're imposing taxes, essentially, on people who are | :56:00. | :56:02. | |
wanting to enter the rental market as landlords, | :56:03. | :56:04. | |
you're just going to reduce the supply of those | :56:05. | :56:06. | |
properties, which will drive up the price of rents. | :56:07. | :56:08. | |
I was always slightly sceptical about that. | :56:09. | :56:16. | |
We'll have to review it. I think what Tulip said is right. | :56:17. | :56:20. | |
We've got to be realistic about the housing need in | :56:21. | :56:22. | |
London and the provision and renting is an increasingly important part of | :56:23. | :56:25. | |
Now, for the rest of the political news | :56:26. | :56:30. | |
At the Labour Party conference in Liverpool, Sadiq Khan | :56:31. | :56:34. | |
set out his vision for Labour in emphatic terms. | :56:35. | :56:37. | |
He mentioned his leader just the once. | :56:38. | :56:52. | |
Prior to the conference it is alleged that the | :56:53. | :56:57. | |
London mayor and Labour's party leader | :56:58. | :57:00. | |
Nevertheless, when Jeremy Corbyn delivered his keynote speech | :57:01. | :57:06. | |
to the party faithful, he included a positive | :57:07. | :57:08. | |
In the May elections we overtook the Tories to become | :57:09. | :57:12. | |
We won back London with a massive win for Sadiq Khan, the | :57:13. | :57:24. | |
first Muslim mayor of Western capital city. | :57:25. | :57:25. | |
Well, it was very entertaining. How many times did he mention it? | :57:26. | :57:40. | |
I mean, he's clearly on a high, he's just become | :57:41. | :57:44. | |
Mayor of London, he wants power, I think he wants | :57:45. | :57:46. | |
Should you be scared? Very scared? | :57:47. | :57:49. | |
I think he's very driven by power and he's a successful politician. | :57:50. | :57:54. | |
I think he's eminently beatable, certainly, in the country. | :57:55. | :57:56. | |
If I were Jeremy, I'd be very worried. | :57:57. | :58:02. | |
Not to mention him once and talk about power. | :58:03. | :58:04. | |
I'm pretty sure he beat your candidate quite badly. | :58:05. | :58:12. | |
Slight problem when you've got mayor and leader so obviously wanting | :58:13. | :58:15. | |
I think that is being too harsh on him. | :58:16. | :58:21. | |
Sadiq Khan is being harsh on Jeremy Corbyn? | :58:22. | :58:26. | |
No, I think you are being harsh on Sadiq. | :58:27. | :58:28. | |
He didn't want to smile and applaud when he was being mentioned. | :58:29. | :58:35. | |
Do you think this is going to become a narrative now, | :58:36. | :58:38. | |
people will constantly see him as the leader across the water? | :58:39. | :58:40. | |
I think Sadiq has just got the job of Mayor of London. | :58:41. | :58:43. | |
I think he is going to do a much better job than | :58:44. | :58:46. | |
And we're joined now by the former Work and Pensions Secretary | :58:47. | :59:06. | |
and Leave campaigner, Iain Duncan Smith. | :59:07. | :59:13. | |
it you said we could be out of the European Union by 2018? My senses if | :59:14. | :59:25. | |
you keep their process as simple as possible and don't try to get | :59:26. | :59:30. | |
special pleading and try to be a member of the single market which | :59:31. | :59:34. | |
they are not going to grant you, if you go for a clear and simple | :59:35. | :59:41. | |
position on trade and find an agreement then the more complex | :59:42. | :59:46. | |
issues then disappear. Theresa May has said that when she brings the | :59:47. | :59:53. | |
act forward to repeal the 1972 act, at the same time you binding the | :59:54. | :59:59. | |
European Law and you speed the process up. Keeping it simple, | :00:00. | :00:04. | |
keeping up pace is what we recommended. It allows you to get | :00:05. | :00:06. | |
the end point quicker. You talk about member of the single | :00:07. | :00:15. | |
market, Chris Grayling told me there was no such thing, which slightly | :00:16. | :00:20. | |
puzzled me. You clearly think that there is. What you want, as I | :00:21. | :00:25. | |
understand it, is a free-trade agreement with the European Union. | :00:26. | :00:30. | |
That could not be done by 2018? We want free trade. There are two | :00:31. | :00:33. | |
approaches to getting free trade with the European Union. The first | :00:34. | :00:39. | |
is that you say, OK, in this process, if we sympathise and ask | :00:40. | :00:43. | |
ourselves, if we now have a new relationship, we have left, we want | :00:44. | :00:50. | |
capital goods, we want to access each other's markets, it benefits | :00:51. | :00:54. | |
you more than us, but we are happy not to have tariff barriers on your | :00:55. | :00:58. | |
trade, we have an agreement of no tariff barriers. Financial services | :00:59. | :01:02. | |
are outside, a separate issue, more of a regulatory issue. That is also | :01:03. | :01:06. | |
approaching a deal on equivalence that we could accelerate. The point | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
I am saying is if you do not go down the road trying to nominate | :01:11. | :01:14. | |
individual bits and pieces and say it is a good agreement for us both, | :01:15. | :01:18. | |
you could reach that by agreement. If you don't and you can't, you | :01:19. | :01:22. | |
could fall back on the WTO arrangements and say, well, later | :01:23. | :01:27. | |
on, we will continue that negotiation discussion to decide | :01:28. | :01:32. | |
whether or not we want a free-trade position. If you fall back on that, | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
what you say to the boss of Nissan, who says he will not invest again in | :01:37. | :01:41. | |
this unless the government back row compensates him, he faces tariffs? | :01:42. | :01:46. | |
The answer to that is that first of all I did not believe we will end up | :01:47. | :01:51. | |
in a situation where it is, in any way, a financial benefit for the | :01:52. | :01:53. | |
European Union to want to impose any kind tariff. Right now you are 12% | :01:54. | :02:01. | |
better off anyway. The level of the pound has made it 12% more | :02:02. | :02:04. | |
competitive with European partners, even if you slapped on 10% tariff. | :02:05. | :02:10. | |
It goes up and down, but you asking him to take investment decisions, | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
multi-billion pound decisions, head of Jaguar, saying roughly the same | :02:16. | :02:18. | |
thing, at a time of real uncertainty. Until it is resolved, | :02:19. | :02:27. | |
investment in Britain will slow down, if not dry up? They invest | :02:28. | :02:31. | |
because this is a darn good place to sell your businesses. You heard from | :02:32. | :02:35. | |
the head of the publishing sector in Germany, he said Britain in five | :02:36. | :02:38. | |
years' time will be much more profitable than anywhere else and | :02:39. | :02:46. | |
will be the boom place. Outside the European Union it will be more | :02:47. | :02:49. | |
flexible to set out arrangements. I am with him on this. I was in | :02:50. | :02:52. | |
business before I came into politics. Nobody knows what the | :02:53. | :02:58. | |
future holds for anything. For car makers and others that want to build | :02:59. | :03:02. | |
stuff, they are here because they want a flexible workforce, much | :03:03. | :03:07. | |
lower levels of cost, and a much better contract law base. 85% of | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
Nissan's output goes to the single market. That is right, they also | :03:12. | :03:18. | |
sell here. 15%? You are not suddenly going to meet a massive tariff wall, | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
a closet is not in the interests of the European Union to set up a | :03:24. | :03:26. | |
massive tariffs. Guess who sells more to us than we do to them? The | :03:27. | :03:30. | |
European Union. The Germans themselves are behind-the-scenes | :03:31. | :03:35. | |
talking to us. We had a lot of that during the referendum. Let me move | :03:36. | :03:39. | |
onto some other things. Damian Green is now running your old department. | :03:40. | :03:43. | |
He is scrapping repeated tests for the seriously disabled, people that | :03:44. | :03:47. | |
you know are not going to be able to improve. Why didn't you do that? We | :03:48. | :03:54. | |
wanted to change this, it was a programme given to us by the last | :03:55. | :03:58. | |
Labour government, we did quite a lot to improve it. The big problem, | :03:59. | :04:02. | |
the programme as it exists at the moment, it does not deal with health | :04:03. | :04:05. | |
conditions, it deals with ability to work. That is the problem. If you | :04:06. | :04:09. | |
want to scrap it for people with health conditions, you have to | :04:10. | :04:12. | |
change the criteria by which they are being assessed. That has always | :04:13. | :04:16. | |
been the issue. For disability payments, it is a different matter. | :04:17. | :04:28. | |
They are assessed on their condition. The problem for that... | :04:29. | :04:30. | |
He will stop the assessments of people that are seriously disabled, | :04:31. | :04:32. | |
why didn't you do that? This is not seriously disabled, it is people | :04:33. | :04:34. | |
that suffer from sickness conditions, not necessarily | :04:35. | :04:37. | |
full-time disability. There are two elements. When I was in Government, | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
we have always set out a process that said we needed to change the | :04:42. | :04:44. | |
way the sickness benefit system was assessed. That was so you could rule | :04:45. | :04:50. | |
out conditions, some progressive, some absolute, on a medical basis, | :04:51. | :04:54. | |
on the approval of the Health Service, so they would say this is a | :04:55. | :04:58. | |
condition that will change, it will mean they cannot work now but they | :04:59. | :05:02. | |
might be able to work for a bit. You put it into a box marked medical | :05:03. | :05:06. | |
conditions. That was already on the box. He has just done that, to | :05:07. | :05:11. | |
acclaim. Why didn't you do it, if it is that simple? We needed to get | :05:12. | :05:16. | |
agreement in Government and we have not reached the Provo ease approval. | :05:17. | :05:21. | |
It is a wider plan. This could have been incremented on its own? But you | :05:22. | :05:26. | |
have to change the way you do it. I was in favour of a bigger plan that | :05:27. | :05:33. | |
brought in changes all into one, because they are competing with each | :05:34. | :05:36. | |
other and do not have the kind of effect that you want. It is the | :05:37. | :05:40. | |
right thing to do. Until now, there have not been a huge number of | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
assessments taking place because the system has not been able to cover | :05:44. | :05:50. | |
it. There is a lot of talk about trying to reposition the Tory party | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
on the centre ground, even the centre-left, talking about worker's | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
rights and so on. It is not credible until she does something. 6 million | :05:59. | :06:05. | |
people earn less than the Living Wage, after six years of | :06:06. | :06:08. | |
Conservative government. 6 million people earn less than the Living | :06:09. | :06:12. | |
Wage. That is the reality, not Tory erect a wreck that we are hearing in | :06:13. | :06:21. | |
the hall. -- that is the Tory rhetoric. Raising the minimum wage | :06:22. | :06:27. | |
was making sure that you identify that and raise the blood. There are | :06:28. | :06:34. | |
still 6 million below. The mantra of this government was to make work | :06:35. | :06:40. | |
pay. 50% of families in poverty have at least one family member working. | :06:41. | :06:46. | |
They are still in poverty, waiting, doing difficult and unpleasant jobs, | :06:47. | :06:49. | |
long hours, they are still in poverty. Many people in this country | :06:50. | :06:56. | |
work and still it is the equivalent of poverty. That does not pay, work | :06:57. | :07:03. | |
does not pay for them. Huge problems down the low skill level of work. | :07:04. | :07:13. | |
This is the one area, the level of skills at that point is arguably | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
some of the lowest in the Western world. Companies too often do not | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
invest in skills because of the nature of the tax credit system, you | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
have them in packets of 16 hours, it is not worth investing. Universal | :07:27. | :07:29. | |
Credit will change all of that quite dramatically. It allows people to | :07:30. | :07:33. | |
work more of the hours, invest more in them. The second aspect is back | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
to the migration issue. That has had a very damaging effect on low | :07:38. | :07:40. | |
workers. There are two elements of this. It is not just the statutory | :07:41. | :07:46. | |
migration, it is that what happened is that a lot of people come for | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
under one year. They do part-time work, they claim full benefits, | :07:51. | :07:57. | |
Migration Watch proved it is over 4 billion per year. That allows them | :07:58. | :08:02. | |
to go and do cash in hand work. It is a big problem, it has only now | :08:03. | :08:07. | |
become clear how damaging that has become to British people working at | :08:08. | :08:11. | |
low income level. What does this party, if it is this self-styled | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
Workers Party, what does it have to do in a country where 6 million | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
people get less than the Living Wage, 50% of people in poverty are | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
already in work and poverty levels among those in work are at record | :08:25. | :08:32. | |
levels. So much for the worker's party? The answer is it has to do a | :08:33. | :08:41. | |
lot, we have been talking about Brexit a lot, Theresa May has | :08:42. | :08:43. | |
dropped a lot of hints about what she wants to do. The announcement | :08:44. | :08:49. | |
yesterday morning about this massive review, led by a Blairite, Matthew | :08:50. | :08:54. | |
Taylor, to completely re-examine employment rights. Thereby meaning, | :08:55. | :08:59. | |
for the low paid and the casual workers, holiday pay for Uber | :09:00. | :09:07. | |
drivers, it opens a massive area of things, grammar schools... You need | :09:08. | :09:20. | |
high-quality technology schools to up-skill its? She has all of this on | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
her agenda, possibly more interesting than even Brexit. I was | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
planning not to mention Brexit in this segment, but I think I did. | :09:30. | :09:34. | |
There was a lot of flesh to be put on his bones before it is | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
convincing? Theresa May is playing a political game of trying to dump the | :09:39. | :09:44. | |
nasty party image, become a more compassionate conservative. She is | :09:45. | :09:51. | |
changing from the David Cameron era, instead of being the bottom 10% or | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
15% of people that he was focusing on, as well as the wealthier elite, | :09:56. | :10:00. | |
she is looking at the people earning more than ?16,000, up to ?21,000, | :10:01. | :10:05. | |
those who have children that are not on free school meals, not the most | :10:06. | :10:11. | |
deprived, she calls them the just managing classes, they might have | :10:12. | :10:14. | |
one for holiday each year, they might want to send their kids to | :10:15. | :10:18. | |
piano lessons or the local Football Club, they are not the poorest | :10:19. | :10:23. | |
people on welfare. That could have an impact on what you're saying, it | :10:24. | :10:27. | |
could also undermine her reputation for being compassionate if she is | :10:28. | :10:30. | |
seen to be abandoning the people that need help most. There is always | :10:31. | :10:34. | |
a political case for doing something for Middle Britain, where most | :10:35. | :10:38. | |
people are. They call at Middle America over there and so on. But | :10:39. | :10:41. | |
these are not the in work but in poverty. Being a worker's party, one | :10:42. | :10:48. | |
that dines out on its support for work, if it is to do anything, it | :10:49. | :10:53. | |
has to do something about these people? The key issue is what the | :10:54. | :11:00. | |
economic policies are in this new government. Nobody on the programme | :11:01. | :11:03. | |
this morning has talked about the deficit, which George Osborne framed | :11:04. | :11:12. | |
everything around, to the point where, as they know better than | :11:13. | :11:16. | |
anyone, he struggles to get welfare reforms affected because of our | :11:17. | :11:19. | |
budget cuts that hit those on low income in work. Until we know the | :11:20. | :11:25. | |
degree to which the framing of that deficit strategy has changed, we | :11:26. | :11:29. | |
will not really know the space they will have to make sure that does not | :11:30. | :11:33. | |
happen over the next few years and the opposite happens. That applies | :11:34. | :11:37. | |
to all of these issues, actually. The economy will provide the space, | :11:38. | :11:42. | |
or not, to do these things. The Treasury is telling the Chancellor | :11:43. | :11:48. | |
that the slowdown in the economy, not as slow as they thought, but | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
still a slowdown, that, in itself, will widen the deficit. Therefore, | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
he is not going to have a tonne of money to throw around on top of | :11:58. | :12:01. | |
that, which would widen the deficit even further. There is room for | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
manoeuvre which may be quite slight? Not quite true. He has abandoned | :12:07. | :12:12. | |
George Osborne's fiscal targets. Having already taken this into | :12:13. | :12:15. | |
account by what they think is the slowing of the economy. They have | :12:16. | :12:18. | |
been wrong in the past, but that is why they have done that. There is | :12:19. | :12:23. | |
not a turn of money around to spend billions on infrastructure, unless, | :12:24. | :12:27. | |
of course, like Mr Corbyn, you want to borrow it. When you say you are | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
not going to eradicate the deficit by 2020, that is what you mean. If | :12:32. | :12:37. | |
he needs to cushion the Brexit impact, if there is one, I don't | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
think we could pay off the deficit by 2020. Then you'll have all of | :12:43. | :12:46. | |
this money to do what you want with. Final thought? There is also the | :12:47. | :12:50. | |
attitude about business and the attitude to the super rich and well. | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
I think Theresa May will concentrate on that more than David Cameron, | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
alleviating concerns. The Autumn Statement from the Chancellor will | :12:59. | :13:01. | |
be as big as any of the statements we hear this week. I am glad to hear | :13:02. | :13:06. | |
it, it will be coming up live on a Daily Politics special. | :13:07. | :13:09. | |
at the Conservative Party conference here in Birmingham. | :13:10. | :13:12. | |
Fear not, I'll be back tomorrow at 11am for a two-hour special | :13:13. | :13:15. | |
as Chancellor Philip Hammond takes to the stage. | :13:16. | :13:18. | |
We are back on Tuesday and Wednesday bringing Theresa May's speech on | :13:19. | :13:26. | |
Wednesday just before lunch. We will be back next Sunday as well. | :13:27. | :13:28. | |
In the meantime, remember - if it's Sunday, it's | :13:29. | :13:31. |