23/10/2016 Sunday Politics London


23/10/2016

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There's another candidate in the race to become Ukip's next

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leader: Suzanne Evans, the party's former deputy chairman,

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This man might have something to say about that.

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Paul Nuttal was Nigel Farage's deputy for many years.

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So is he now ready to throw his hat in the ring?

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The battle for Mosul: the Iraqi army and its allies advane

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on the country's second city which has been in the hands of

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But what will be the fallout from this key clash?

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London this week, slum conditions in one of the richest cities in the

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world. Should all private landlords be licensed to help tackle the

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squalor? And with me - as always -

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the best and the brightest political panel in the business: Toby Young,

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Polly Toynbee and Tom Newton Dunn - The last leader was in the job

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a mere 18 days before she decided The favourite to succeed her then

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quit the party after a now infamous Ukip's biggest donor says the party

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is at "breaking point". This morning, the former

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Deputy Chairman, Suzanne Evans, announced that she would be

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running for the leadership. I've thought long and hard

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about this leadership bid, and one of the reasons I've perhaps

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delayed announcing it is because I wanted to be absolutely

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sure that I had the support And I can confirm that I have

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more than enough signatures on the nomination form already

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to be able to go forward. Let's not forget that 3,000 people

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signed a petition in support of me I know head office was besieged

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with letters in support. I would not be doing this

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if I didn't have the backing of our members, because our members

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are the most important Well, Paul Nuttall was

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Nigel Farage's deputy for many years and plenty of people saw him

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as a leader-in-waiting. Let's ask the man himself -

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Paul Nuttall joins me now. Yes. I've made the decision that I'm

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going to put my name forward to be the next leader of Ukip. I have huge

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support across the country, not only amongst people at the top of the

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party in Westminster and with the MEPs, but also the grassroots. I

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want to be the unity candidate. Ukip needs to come together. I'm not

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going to gild the lily. Ukip is looking over a political cliff at

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the moment. It will either step four step back, and I want to tell us to

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step backwards. You say it faces an ex-distension or threat, which means

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it's possible it has no future at all. Students of political history

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know that political parties take a long time to get going. They can

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disappear pretty quickly. Ukip is facing an existential crisis. What

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happened over the summer has put us on a... We could be on a spiral that

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we can't get off. But I believe I am the man to bring the factions

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together, to create unity within the party, and to build on the structure

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and get us ready for the common challenges. Why didn't you stand

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last time? Because I have spent the last four or five years of my life

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travelling around the country. I have done more Ukip meetings than

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anybody else, spending a lot of time away from home. With Brexit, I felt

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that my job and Nigel's job was done and we could hand over to the next

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generation. That doesn't seem to be the case, and maybe it's time for

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someone who is an old hand. I'm very experienced and I know the party

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inside out. Maybe it's time to step in and bring the party together You

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told the Liverpool Echo on the night of July that you didn't wish to take

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on Nigel Farage, you didn't want that to happen to your family and

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friends. What has changed? The party is facing an existential crisis and

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I want to make sure that Ukip is on the pitch to keep the ball into the

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open net we have in politics. We have a Conservative Party who is

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moving toward Brexit, but we have to be there too. Why would you be

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better than Suzanne Evans? Suzanne would be an excellent candidate I

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thought the 2015 manifesto was the best out of all the political

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parties. I would be the best candidate because of my experience.

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I am not part of any faction within the party. Is she? I get on well

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with everybody, and I believe I could be the man to bring the party

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together. Do you get on with Iain Banks, -- Aaron Banks, who is

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supporting one of your rivals? Yes, I get on well with him. He is able

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to choose whoever he wants to be the next leader of the party. After

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November 28, the leadership election, we all say, the past the

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past. It becomes Daisy row for the new leader. We forget all that has

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before and move on. You won the referendum. Mrs May is adopting some

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of your policies, like grammar schools. What is the point of Ukip

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these days? Twofold. We don't have Brexit. Mrs May said she would not

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invoke Article 50 until the end of March, and we don't know if that

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will happen. We need to ensure a strong Ukip to make sure that Brexit

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really does mean Brexit. We have a huge opportunity in working class

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communities where the Labour Party no longer represents them. I believe

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Ukip can become the voice of working people. If you were the leader,

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would Ukip be a bigger threat to Labour in the north or the Tories in

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the South? You save Labour in the north, and people often to make that

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mistake. There's working class communities right across the country

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is. There are working-class communities in Bristol just

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as in Newcastle. We are second in a number of northern seats, and

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southern seats as well, and I believe the party can move into

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these communities. It can only do so if Ukip is on the pitch, and I

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intend to make sure that's the case. I don't think we have portrayed a

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good image over the summer. Is that called British understatement? A

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bit. It is dysfunctional. We have to move on beyond Nigel Farage. We have

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to build a strong national Executive Committee. We need to ensure our

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branches are ready for the fight and concentrate on local elections. I've

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got the experience. I'm now throwing my hat into the ring, and I'm the

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only person who can keep Ukip in the game. What role would you give Nigel

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Farage, if any? I will be the candidate of compromise. I would see

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what Nigel wanted to do. Would you keep in the leader of the freedom

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and democracy group in the European Parliament? There would have to be

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compromise on both sides, and we would need to talk about it. I don't

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know what Nigel wants to do. Do you think his support, his association

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with Donald Trump, helps Ukip win female votes in this country?

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Personally, I would not have gone out and campaigned or said anything

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about Donald Trump, but I don't think Ukip has come out and backed

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Donald Trump 100%. Personally, I wouldn't have even spoken about the

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American election, because I think the two candidates are quite

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appalling. Some up for us. If you win, what would be the hallmark of

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your Ukip leadership? The first couple of months would be ensuring

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that Ukip unifies. Saying no to factions, bringing people together.

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Suzanne Evans, Nigel Farage, all of the MEPs, and ensuring that Ukip can

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move forward. If we don't unify Ukip will not be around for much

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longer. Thanks for being with us this morning.

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We won't have to wait too long to find out who Ukip's

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new leader will be - the winner will be announced

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Who would be the best leader for Ukip? I think the difference between

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the field a few weeks ago and today is that this field is a lot

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stronger. Whether it's Paul or Suzanne, I think... It is hard to

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say, with Aaron Banks and apparently Nigel Farage hacking another

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candidate, Raheem, but I want Ukip to be a strong force in British

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politics. I think the fact there is a stronger field now is good news

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for Ukip. Is it a Labour's worst nightmare in the north of England?

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It is. I think the personality difference and presentational

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difference is interesting. Suzanne Evans is going for the Conservative

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county vote. There's a lot to be taken there by Ukip. He would

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probably be more appealing to the Labour vote. It is interesting. At

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the moment, pollsters say that the Ukip vote splits pretty easily

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between Labour and Tory. But things always collapse. When they have made

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inroads into Tower Hamlets and Barking, they collapse, because they

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fight amongst each other so much. But not always with fists! Does Ukip

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have a future? And who would best secure that future? It does for at

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least two years, until we Brexit. We have to believe that that will

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happen. That was an impressive pitch there from Paul, certainly as the

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unity candidate, after the car crash we have seen on TV screens this

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morning. But it doesn't go beyond May 20 19. What then? There is no

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point being called the United Kingdom Independence party any

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longer. What will happen after May 2019? If you want to hoover up votes

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of the back of Brexit, you need to start looking further ahead than two

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years. The person who wins that leadership contest is the person who

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will sum that up the best. We shall see.

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In June 2014, the group which calls itself the Islamic State in Iraq

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and the Levant captured Iraq's second city, Mosul.

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Later that month the group announced it was establishing a 'caliphate',

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or an Islamic state, on the territories it

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This week 30,000 Iraqi troops, aided by Iranian-backed Shia fighters

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Kurdish Peshmerga and Western air support, began the assault

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Then they spot a truck bomb from so-called Islamic State.

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They destroy it before it destroys them.

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These are the first steps in the battle for Mosul,

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the Northern Iraqi city IS has made its stronghold since 2014.

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Controlling the city of around 2 million people means

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that they established governance, they establish a territorial base.

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This is what has obsessed everyone, because with a territorial base

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you are capable of doing more than if you are simply an insurgency

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movement in the fabric of another society.

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It's being billed as the biggest military operation in Iraq

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since the war in 2003, the biggest moment in the international effort

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Here is how the various forces are approaching the city.

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Heading to Mosul from the south the elite troops of the Iraqi army.

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Known as the Golden division, trained and accompanied

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From the North, a force made up of Kurds, known as the Peshmerga,

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Also from the South, a militia made up of Shia fighters

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who have been accused of human rights abuses.

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British planes have bombed outlying villages, reportedly guided

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in by British personnel on the ground.

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To the North West, a corridor has been left for some

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of the 3000 plus IS fighters, in theory an escape route

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which could limit the bloodshed when fighting starts in the city.

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We've had 4-5 days of battle and it's taking place

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in the outlying villages and there have been some

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successes and some failures, but the momentum is building.

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And the real question will be when the attackers get

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towards the city itself, how strong are the defences?

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It will crack but it might crack within 48 hours or 2-3 weeks.

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IS has fought back, on Friday they attack sites

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in the city of Kirkuk, including a power station.

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The United Nations believes hundreds of thousands of families

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have been rounded up as potential human shields.

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The battle could be bloody, but what about when it's over?

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The Shia militias, the Iraqi army, the Peshmerga guerrillas,

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some of the Turkish elements, they all want a share of the action.

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They are in Mosul, not for altruistic reasons.

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They are there because they want to be part of whatever happens next.

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The biggest issue is how the Sunni majority in Mosul reacts to the Shia

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militias which have helped to liberate them.

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ARCHIVE FOOTAGE: When Sir Francis Humphrey went to Mosul

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If it all seems like something from the archive, when the Middle

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East went up in flames and was then carved up,

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it is because that is what is happening in Iraq right now.

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National identity has been cut across by other identities such

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And that means that putting together a so-called nation state again

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Almost certainly there will be a new form of Kurdish state,

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almost certainly in northern Iraq at the end of this crisis,

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and what is happening in Mosul is a microcosm of what is happening

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elsewhere across the Levant which is that it is melting down.

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Big questions, questions that come after the battle.

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The coalition forces are advancing but this is just the beginning.

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I'm joined now by the International Development Minister Rory Stewart.

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In a former life he was the coalition Deputy-Governor of two

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provinces in Southern Iraq following the Iraq intervention of 2003.

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Is there any doubt that at some stage Mosul will fall to the forces

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of Iraq and its allies? The first thing is that war is very uncertain

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and there are cliches about it being the graveyard of predictions and we

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don't want to make confident predictions but the basic structure

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is that there are 30,000 Iraqi forces outside and only a few

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thousand Daesh fighters inside and I would say it is overwhelmingly

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likely that the batter will one STUDIO: -- the battle the won by the

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Iraqi forces. June 2014 was a great success, they

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took a city of over in people and they created what they tried to

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create a million state of 7 million people, stretching across the Iraqi

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Syrian border, but since then they have lost territory quite rapidly.

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Now they are losing the outskirts of Mosul, and that is a fundamental

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blow. Islamic State is all about territory and holding state, that is

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what makes it different from Al-Qaeda. If they lose Mosul that

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will be a cynic -- significant blow to their credibility. Hillary

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Clinton said on Wednesday's presidential debate that when Iraqi

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forces with their allies including the United Kingdom gain control of

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Mosul they should continue to press into Syria to take back Raqqa which

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is the de facto capital of the caliphate, what is left of it, do we

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want Iraqi forces to pursue IS into Syria? Very important question.

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Delayed in Raqqa needs to come from people on the Syrian side of the

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border and that is an important principle -- the lead. In the end of

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that enemy, Islamic State, is a common enemy for odd members of the

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coalition including the Iraqi government. -- all members. There is

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likely to be a humanitarian crisis especially if it ends up with street

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to street fighting and IS are difficult to dislodge what are we

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doing about that? We are doing very detailed scenario planning. It is

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very uncertain what the scenario will be but much investment has gone

:18:43.:18:46.

into creating a network of camps, refugees STUDIO: Refugee camps

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around cash refugee camps, and that is where money, British money, 40

:18:57.:19:02.

million has gone recently into supporting that, especially in terms

:19:03.:19:05.

of medical support to people. The United nation's emergency response

:19:06.:19:13.

budget is ?196 million but only one third funded which sounds like we

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are putting up a big chunk of what is already being funded. Why is

:19:16.:19:20.

that? The international committee can't say they haven't seen this

:19:21.:19:23.

assault coming, and the humanitarian fallout they may see from it. You

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are absolutely right. We have seen it coming and we have been planning

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since debris and we have put in about ?167 million into this --

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planning since February. There has been a change in the nature of the

:19:40.:19:43.

appeal, and if there is a lag in the accounting of it, but the money we

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need at this stage is in place and we do have the support structure in

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place for those refugees. You are right the United Nations is

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continuing with its appeal and is asking for more money at the moment.

:19:55.:19:59.

The converse magazine wrote this week that preparations for a big

:20:00.:20:02.

exodus of people leaving the city have been made -- Economist

:20:03.:20:08.

magazine. But confidence is not high in the preparations, is that a

:20:09.:20:13.

unfair conclusion? If you can imagine the different scenarios it

:20:14.:20:17.

could be a few thousand and it could be a few hundred thousand coming out

:20:18.:20:20.

of the city through a front line where the war is going on, that is

:20:21.:20:25.

very difficult. You have to screen those people and disarm them, and

:20:26.:20:28.

keep families together, and transport them and you have to bring

:20:29.:20:32.

them into the refugee camps. The people working on this have been

:20:33.:20:36.

working on this for long time, we have mapped the different routes we

:20:37.:20:40.

have good camp infrastructure in place and we have people who have

:20:41.:20:47.

worked in south to dam and other areas who are putting their

:20:48.:20:50.

structures in place -- South Sudan. It is never easy but I think we have

:20:51.:20:54.

done everything we can in the preparation for this. What is the

:20:55.:20:58.

British role in what will probably be an even bigger issue, assuming

:20:59.:21:04.

that Mosul is liberated and retaken, the humanitarian crisis is dealt

:21:05.:21:10.

with, what role will we play in the rebuilding of Mosul? That will be

:21:11.:21:16.

crucial to the future of Iraq, the second-biggest city and it will need

:21:17.:21:21.

to be rebuilt. It will need to be rebuilt as a community as well as

:21:22.:21:26.

bricks and mortar. And eight Sunni community that is not harassed by

:21:27.:21:30.

the Shia. -- and eight. You are right. One of the core drivers is

:21:31.:21:37.

that the Sunni community felt excluded and they did not feel they

:21:38.:21:40.

have the trust from the Baghdad government. A lasting solution is

:21:41.:21:46.

stopping some of Islamic State coming back, that involves making

:21:47.:21:51.

sure the Sunni community have a stake in their future. That is

:21:52.:21:56.

making sure that the governing structures are in place. The UK s

:21:57.:22:01.

response is twofold, we have got to get the humanitarian aid right, that

:22:02.:22:06.

is the short term, people who might be malnourished, coming out of the

:22:07.:22:11.

front line. The second thing is working with the Iraqi government to

:22:12.:22:14.

make sure that as we rebuild Mosul we do so in a way that that

:22:15.:22:18.

population feels a connection to the Iraqi state. Islamic State is losing

:22:19.:22:25.

territory everywhere in the Levant, it is almost finished in Iraq, we

:22:26.:22:30.

think. It is down to one district in Libya, as well, just one small part

:22:31.:22:36.

of the town. I suppose the risk is, if life is becoming more difficult

:22:37.:22:40.

across these areas, it can start to look more in Europe and the United

:22:41.:22:46.

Kingdom as a place to continue its terrorist attacks? That is a real

:22:47.:22:52.

danger. You are right. This is a group which has proved over the last

:22:53.:22:56.

five years very unpredictable and it changes for it quickly full stop

:22:57.:23:02.

often it does unexpected things In 2009 its predecessor had been

:23:03.:23:07.

largely wiped out in Iraq and when it was under pressure in Syria it

:23:08.:23:11.

went back into Iraq, and in the past it didn't hold territory but now it

:23:12.:23:15.

holds territory, so you are right. There is a serious risk that as it

:23:16.:23:18.

gets squeezed in the middle East it will try to pop up somewhere else

:23:19.:23:23.

and Mac could include Europe and the United States -- that could. They

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say that is something they have focused on full stop we also have a

:23:28.:23:33.

big focus on counterterrorism security and making sure that we

:23:34.:23:35.

keep the United Kingdom and Europe say. One final question. -- say --

:23:36.:23:47.

safe. Maybe events in Mosul could add to the migration crisis in

:23:48.:23:51.

Europe, is that a possibility? Again, you are right, we have seen

:23:52.:23:58.

in Syria it can push migration, the biggest push the migration was the

:23:59.:24:01.

conflict in Syria, and that's the reason why we have but so much

:24:02.:24:03.

energy into getting those refugee camps in place and getting the

:24:04.:24:08.

humanitarian response in place - put so much energy. People will want

:24:09.:24:13.

to remain in their homes, this is their country, but we have got to

:24:14.:24:16.

make it possible for them and that means in the short term looking

:24:17.:24:20.

after their shelter and in the medium to long-term making sure they

:24:21.:24:23.

have livelihoods, jobs and an economic development which is why

:24:24.:24:29.

our support in Iraq is in the UK National interests because it deals

:24:30.:24:32.

with these issues of migration and terrorists. Thanks for joining us.

:24:33.:24:40.

I'm joined now by the Shadow Defence Secretary.

:24:41.:24:47.

Does Labour support British participation in this offensive We

:24:48.:24:59.

fully support the participation in this offensive, extremely important

:25:00.:25:03.

move forward and we voted for this back in 2014. We are asking the

:25:04.:25:09.

government question is, of course, I was asking the Secretary of State

:25:10.:25:13.

this week about this very offensive but we are fully behind our RAF

:25:14.:25:18.

pilots out there and be trading that has been going on to help the forces

:25:19.:25:23.

on the ground. -- the training full stop that is very clear. I wonder if

:25:24.:25:27.

you'll lead it shares that clarity and that position. -- is your

:25:28.:25:34.

leader. This is what Jeremy Corbyn has said.

:25:35.:25:36.

What's been done in Iraq is done by the Iraqi

:25:37.:25:38.

government, and currently supported by the British government.

:25:39.:25:40.

I did not support it when it came up.

:25:41.:25:42.

Well, I'm not sure how successful it's been, because most

:25:43.:25:46.

of the action now appears to be moving in to Syria, so I think we

:25:47.:25:50.

He doesn't sound very supportive. The issue about Mosul, it has been

:25:51.:25:59.

very carefully prepared as Rory Stewart said and I hope we have

:26:00.:26:02.

learned the lessons from previous offensives where we haven't learnt

:26:03.:26:07.

sufficiently, and that is going to be crucial in this context. How the

:26:08.:26:11.

aftermath is going to be dealt with. Of course will stop that clip was

:26:12.:26:17.

from November last year, and things have changed. Two weeks ago he told

:26:18.:26:25.

the BBC" I'm not sure it is working", in reference to air

:26:26.:26:29.

strikes in Iraq, but it is working. We have got to see what happens in

:26:30.:26:33.

Mosul, it is a very high-risk operation, but we also have to face

:26:34.:26:35.

the fact that the people there are living under tyranny at the moment.

:26:36.:26:40.

We have to ask very cirrus question shall stop he says he's not sure it

:26:41.:26:48.

is working, when Mosul is the last major target be cleared of Islamic

:26:49.:26:52.

State in Iraq. The combination of Allied air power has worked, why is

:26:53.:26:57.

he not sure it is working? Because we have seen difficulties in the

:26:58.:27:02.

past. But this was two weeks ago. It is essential that the work is done,

:27:03.:27:06.

both planning for the refugees as Rory Stewart referred to, but also

:27:07.:27:09.

in terms of reconstruction of the city and its community as you

:27:10.:27:15.

mentioned. These are vital. This was about the ability to make progress

:27:16.:27:19.

with Allied air power, special forces in Iraq, on the ground, do

:27:20.:27:24.

you accept so far that has a strategy that seems to be working to

:27:25.:27:36.

read Iraq of Islamic -- to read Iraq of Islamic State the question of the

:27:37.:27:45.

car began placement. Ulloa -- we can't be complacent. The problems

:27:46.:27:52.

they are creating where ever they are urged that we must continue to

:27:53.:27:57.

pursue them. This is the first time we have spoken to since you have

:27:58.:28:01.

become the Shadow Defence Secretary. I hope we will have a longer

:28:02.:28:05.

interview. Will Labour's next manifesto include a commitment to

:28:06.:28:12.

the renewal of Trident? It will We made that commitment in 2007, that

:28:13.:28:15.

is a firm commitment and we will honour that to our coalition allies

:28:16.:28:19.

and our industrial partners and that is the vote which was taken

:28:20.:28:23.

democratically and repeatedly has been reaffirmed by Labour conference

:28:24.:28:26.

and we are a democratic party vote up you have squared that with Jeremy

:28:27.:28:35.

Corbyn? He's in favour of democracy and he understands the situation,

:28:36.:28:38.

but we also want to push for the UK to play a much bigger role on the

:28:39.:28:42.

international stage on multilateral disarmament talks. You were very

:28:43.:28:48.

clear there, I thank you for that. Support for Trident will be in the

:28:49.:28:53.

next Labour manifesto. What has happened to Labour's review of

:28:54.:28:57.

Trident policy? That review has been taking place over the year, we had a

:28:58.:29:01.

very clear reaffirmation in the conference boat this year, we are

:29:02.:29:05.

reaffirming our commitment to Trident -- vote. The review can t

:29:06.:29:13.

change that? There is a process of review and a fair number of issues

:29:14.:29:16.

related to defence, all parties do this. Of course. The review can t

:29:17.:29:23.

change the commitment to Trident? We are not changing the commitment to

:29:24.:29:27.

Trident. Russia is now the main strategic threat to this country? It

:29:28.:29:31.

is a major strategic threat and we have got to work with our Nato

:29:32.:29:34.

allies very closely and make sure that we respond and that we do not

:29:35.:29:39.

let things pass. For example, we should be calling out Russia for the

:29:40.:29:42.

way it has been a bombing humanitarian aid and we should be

:29:43.:29:47.

taking them to international court over this, but we should also be

:29:48.:29:52.

strengthening sanctions, somewhat imposed over Ukraine. We try to do

:29:53.:29:57.

that, but the Italians wouldn't let us. The Italians did not want to

:29:58.:30:02.

participate in the European initiative but that doesn't stop

:30:03.:30:07.

individual countries for the Britain should step up? Yes, we should look

:30:08.:30:12.

at what is practical to impose. Thanks for joining us.

:30:13.:30:18.

Mosul is not the only major battle being waged in the Middle East.

:30:19.:30:21.

The city of Aleppo in northern Syria has seen some of the heaviest

:30:22.:30:24.

bombardment since Syria's five-year-long civil war began.

:30:25.:30:27.

This week Russian warships, in a deliberate show of power,

:30:28.:30:30.

sailed west through the English channel en route to Syria.

:30:31.:30:34.

Nato says it's Russia's "largest surface deployment" since the end

:30:35.:30:37.

of the Cold War in what is thought to be preparation

:30:38.:30:40.

for a final assault on the besieged city of Aleppo.

:30:41.:30:44.

In the city itself fighting resumed overnight -

:30:45.:30:48.

following a 3-day ceasefire - with more air strikes and heavy

:30:49.:30:53.

clashes in the city's rebel-held eastern districts.

:30:54.:30:56.

Almost 500 people have been killed and 2,000 injured

:30:57.:30:59.

since Syrian government forces, backed by Russian air strikes,

:31:00.:31:03.

This week Theresa May condemned Vladimir Putin's involvement

:31:04.:31:11.

in Syria, accusing Moscow of being behind "sickening

:31:12.:31:13.

atrocities" in support of President Assad's regime.

:31:14.:31:17.

But European leaders are divided on how to respond and,

:31:18.:31:21.

with the United States preoccupied with domestic politics,

:31:22.:31:23.

President Putin senses this is his moment to bring the Syrian

:31:24.:31:27.

I'm joined now by the BBC's former Diplomatic and Moscow Correspondent,

:31:28.:31:35.

Bridget Kendall, who is now Master of Peterhouse College in Cambridge.

:31:36.:31:43.

Welcome. Good to see you in the BBC studio again. Let me put up this

:31:44.:31:51.

satellite image of Aleppo here, to get an idea of the scale. It was the

:31:52.:31:59.

biggest city in Syria. It was the commercial capital and a huge

:32:00.:32:03.

cultural hub as well. Almost the New York of Syria, to give you an idea

:32:04.:32:07.

of its significance to the country. Let me show you now how it's been

:32:08.:32:13.

divided. The rebels are now in control of the eastern part, about

:32:14.:32:21.

eight miles long and three miles wide there, they're in purple. They

:32:22.:32:24.

are under great attacks still. Is it inevitable that that purple part

:32:25.:32:31.

falls to the regime? That is what President as Saad, the Russians and

:32:32.:32:37.

the Iranians hope. The fierce bombardments we have seen is part of

:32:38.:32:43.

that. I'm reminded very much in the Russian tactics of what happened in

:32:44.:32:49.

grudgingly in Chechnya in 2000, when the Russians said, a warning for all

:32:50.:32:54.

civilians to lead, and then they went ahead and they basically raised

:32:55.:32:59.

it to the ground. They are talking about Al Nusrah as being one of the

:33:00.:33:04.

rebel groups. They got rid of all of the terrorists. They talk about it

:33:05.:33:08.

being an Al-Qaeda offshoot. The purpose of going in is to get rid of

:33:09.:33:13.

them. You get the civilians out and then you take it. But this isn't

:33:14.:33:18.

like Chechnya. It is much more complex. We have seen an attempt to

:33:19.:33:23.

take Aleppo before, and then there was a rebel counter offensive. It's

:33:24.:33:28.

not so certain. And there are so many different parties involved We

:33:29.:33:31.

have seen the alarm in the west of the extent of the civilian

:33:32.:33:35.

casualties. There have been rumblings in the west of, shouldn't

:33:36.:33:45.

the United States do something? Shouldn't they stop the Syrian air

:33:46.:33:47.

force? This Russian aircraft carrier steaming its way towards the Eastern

:33:48.:33:51.

Mediterranean is a symbolic gesture, both to its own people, but also to

:33:52.:33:59.

the West, to say, don't get involved in Aleppo if we go ahead. Don't try

:34:00.:34:04.

and stop us because we could up the ante. They have not been great

:34:05.:34:09.

visual pictures, because the aircraft carrier looks a bit clapped

:34:10.:34:14.

out, belching out smoke! If the rebel controlled area does fall it

:34:15.:34:21.

would be seen as a great victory for President as Saad and his Russian

:34:22.:34:25.

allies. What is the aim of Russia here? What would they then do, if

:34:26.:34:30.

Aleppo Falls? It is part of a plan that President Putin set out in his

:34:31.:34:35.

UN speech in 2014, before Russia went into Syria. The aim is to put

:34:36.:34:40.

President Assad back in charge. President Putin said this weekend

:34:41.:34:45.

that either is Assad in Damascus, or its Al Nusrah. There is nothing in

:34:46.:34:51.

between. They want to eliminate the argument for a moderate opposition.

:34:52.:34:56.

They want to make it plain that the only way to get a stable Syria is to

:34:57.:35:03.

have Assad back in charge. Even sue argue for a rump steak lit, leaving

:35:04.:35:12.

aside what is happening with IAS. They have already said they want to

:35:13.:35:17.

have an enlarged military presence at their bases. And they have a big

:35:18.:35:22.

naval base. It is. It is a chance to push for this when he sees the West

:35:23.:35:27.

is being distracted and divided Europe and America, by elections and

:35:28.:35:35.

so on. Just before the US elections. The Americans are worried about

:35:36.:35:39.

that, Europeans are being distracted by Brexit. He can push to his

:35:40.:35:44.

maximum advantage now, before there is a new US president. If they do

:35:45.:35:53.

take that part of Aleppo, and that part of northern Syria, does Mr

:35:54.:36:01.

Putin want us to recognise, to admit, that that is now his sphere

:36:02.:36:06.

of influence? I think the rhetoric from the Russians is that they want

:36:07.:36:11.

the West to recognise that they are an equal powerful partner. It's not

:36:12.:36:15.

just the US that runs the writ in the Middle East. Russia is as

:36:16.:36:21.

important as it is. It is engaging with Saudi Arabia and has mended

:36:22.:36:26.

fences with Turkey. Syria is the place from which it can launch its

:36:27.:36:32.

message that it is a big player in the Middle East. Russia wants the

:36:33.:36:37.

West to understand that this isn't a country that was dismembered after

:36:38.:36:40.

the end of the Soviet Union and is now a week. It is back, and it is

:36:41.:36:45.

strong. That is an important message. Looking at the economy It

:36:46.:36:52.

is in recession. GDP has been falling, partly because of the price

:36:53.:36:57.

of oil. It is highly dependent on hydrocarbons, and is expected to

:36:58.:37:02.

fall again. Its people are falling again. People don't realise how

:37:03.:37:07.

small the Russian economy is. Its GDP is about the size of Italy's. It

:37:08.:37:14.

is smaller than the UK economy. Bigger than it was 15 or 20 years

:37:15.:37:22.

ago. But so is Britain's does it help to take people's mind of this?

:37:23.:37:27.

A huge shock to the Russian economy was a drop in the price of oil and a

:37:28.:37:33.

price of gas. A drop in the price of the ruble as well. This is hurting

:37:34.:37:39.

the people of Russia. On the one hand, it is the war in Syria, which

:37:40.:37:44.

is very important for Russia to sort out that part of the world and

:37:45.:37:49.

dispensed terrorists who might be danger to -- is dangerous to Russia.

:37:50.:37:56.

But he had also has presidential election is going up. They are

:37:57.:38:01.

supposed to be 2018, but some feel he will bring them forward to 2 17,

:38:02.:38:05.

because the economy is not doing so well. But you need a good story for

:38:06.:38:10.

the Russian people. Thank you very much.

:38:11.:38:13.

We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now

:38:14.:38:15.

Coming up here in 20 minutes, the Week Ahead.

:38:16.:38:19.

First, though, the Sunday Politics where you are.

:38:20.:38:25.

Hello and welcome to the London part of the show.

:38:26.:38:28.

Slum conditions in one of the richest cities on earth

:38:29.:38:33.

Should all private landlords be licensed to help tackle the squalor?

:38:34.:38:39.

Joining me for the duration of the show - Andrew Rosindell,

:38:40.:38:41.

Conservative MP for Romford, and Dawn Butler, Labour MP

:38:42.:38:44.

for Brent Central, and newly promoted to Labour's front bench.

:38:45.:38:50.

MPs are going to get a vote on Brexit -

:38:51.:38:54.

that is, a vote on the terms on which we plan to leave the EU.

:38:55.:38:58.

But what signs yet that London's interests are at the forefront

:38:59.:39:00.

of the government's mind as it starts to think about

:39:01.:39:03.

Dorner, any view? I think that it is lucky that we have Sadiq Khan

:39:04.:39:18.

pushing the London perspective. And in Parliament, we have to hold the

:39:19.:39:23.

government to account. I think the government is in a mess. The reason

:39:24.:39:28.

why we are getting a vote on the terms is because, in opposition we

:39:29.:39:32.

put forward a good argument, and the government had to accept it. All in

:39:33.:39:37.

all, I think David Davis was a bit pathetic in his comeback. The

:39:38.:39:44.

government is in a mess. Should London be getting important

:39:45.:39:48.

treatment, prominence, in any kind of negotiations in terms of Brexit

:39:49.:39:53.

because of its economic status? No. London is part of the UK, our

:39:54.:40:00.

capital city. Although in London not everyone voted for Brexit, you have

:40:01.:40:04.

to look at the entire interests of the UK. We had a democratic vote.

:40:05.:40:10.

There is going to be a Brexit. We need to get a good agreement for

:40:11.:40:13.

trade and cooperation to benefit the whole country. Talking about seats

:40:14.:40:20.

at tables, negotiating seats, and Scotland and Wales having a

:40:21.:40:25.

prominence. Would you expect London to have a parity? Not at all. The

:40:26.:40:31.

long-term interest of our country is to trade globally again, decide our

:40:32.:40:36.

own immigration policy. All of those things are really UK wide issue

:40:37.:40:40.

London can express its views, that it is the UK Government who has to

:40:41.:40:45.

make the decisions. That shows why the Tory party is in such a mess.

:40:46.:40:53.

London is ABBA financial capital. It needs to have some special

:40:54.:40:57.

consideration. It is crazy. Let s move on.

:40:58.:40:59.

It didn't happen last week - but looks like it it's

:41:00.:41:01.

Of course, it now feels like it won't be much

:41:02.:41:05.

and her special cabinet sub-committee decide that Heathrow

:41:06.:41:08.

But the decision would only set in train a complex process,

:41:09.:41:14.

After years of deliberation and delays, the government's

:41:15.:41:17.

decision on airport expansion is finally expected next week.

:41:18.:41:22.

And in all likelihood, it's going to be this place - Heathrow.

:41:23.:41:26.

But there are a number of reasons why those awaiting the third runway

:41:27.:41:29.

The Prime Minister is being accused of further dithering,

:41:30.:41:34.

after she signalled this week that Parliament won't vote

:41:35.:41:37.

There is, then, a formal process that has to be undertaken.

:41:38.:41:45.

So the government will identify its preferred option of site.

:41:46.:41:51.

That will then go to a statutory consultation.

:41:52.:41:53.

The government will then consider the results of the statutory

:41:54.:41:56.

consultation and bring forward an Airports National Planning

:41:57.:41:59.

Statement on which this house will vote.

:42:00.:42:03.

Critics say the Prime Minister's running scared

:42:04.:42:05.

She's relaxing cabinet collective responsibility to allow

:42:06.:42:10.

the likes of Boris Johnson and Justine Greening to speak out

:42:11.:42:13.

There's also a rebellion threatened in Richmond.

:42:14.:42:16.

Zac Goldsmith has pledged to step down and fight a by-election.

:42:17.:42:20.

Richmond Tories this week said they'd back him as an independent

:42:21.:42:23.

And then there are the legal challenges from local councils.

:42:24.:42:30.

No matter what party is in control, the government cannot break the law.

:42:31.:42:33.

That's what the judge told them in 2010, and that's

:42:34.:42:36.

what will happen if they try to move on without dealing

:42:37.:42:39.

Next week's decision might seem historic to some,

:42:40.:42:45.

but this wouldn't be the first time governments have announced

:42:46.:42:48.

Just as the idea of expanding Heathrow seems like it

:42:49.:42:54.

might finally take off, there's every reason to believe it

:42:55.:42:56.

Andrew Rossendale, do you think the time has come to go for this? No.

:42:57.:43:12.

This has gone on for far too long. We need to make long-term decisions

:43:13.:43:16.

in the interest of the whole country. Whilst we are delaying

:43:17.:43:22.

these decisions, we are potentially damaging our economy. I think it

:43:23.:43:25.

really is the time to make a decision and get on with it. In

:43:26.:43:30.

terms of managing expectations, people will not be surprised if

:43:31.:43:36.

Theresa May says we will go for Heathrow this week, after all the

:43:37.:43:39.

controversy. It has taken so long. Just make a decision and then let's

:43:40.:43:43.

talk about the decision that needs to be made. I don't think that

:43:44.:43:50.

Heathrow should be the priority decision. I think it should actually

:43:51.:43:57.

be Gatwick. Back in 2009, 2010, when you are trying to be elected, you

:43:58.:44:02.

were supporting it. That is before I knew how many people died because of

:44:03.:44:07.

poor air quality around my area almost 10,000 people a year. I don't

:44:08.:44:13.

think we can overlook that. That has to be a consideration on airport

:44:14.:44:17.

expansion. Why don't Unite, the biggest union, say that this is the

:44:18.:44:27.

biggest, most important thing for jobs. It is important for jobs, but

:44:28.:44:32.

it doesn't necessarily have to be at Heathrow. It might be the case in

:44:33.:44:36.

future that both airports need expanding. We need to tackle the

:44:37.:44:41.

air-quality issue. Lots of senior Labour figures, when they decided on

:44:42.:44:44.

this policy several years ago, didn't feel it would happen either,

:44:45.:44:49.

because they felt there would be legal challenges or air quality

:44:50.:44:51.

would be an issue. Do you really think that will happen? I have

:44:52.:44:58.

always been a bit sceptical about it, and I haven't been 100% for

:44:59.:45:04.

Heathrow. But I think we are at a stage that if we don't hurry up and

:45:05.:45:08.

get on with something, we will regret this long-term. We will lose

:45:09.:45:12.

jobs and damage our economy. There are other airports on the other side

:45:13.:45:16.

of the English Channel, in the Netherlands and in France, that

:45:17.:45:19.

could potentially compete and take away the prominence of Heathrow as a

:45:20.:45:25.

major airport in this part of Europe. So we need to get on with

:45:26.:45:30.

the job and make a decision. What about the politics and the party

:45:31.:45:35.

management? The prominent critics, Justine Greening and Boris Johnson,

:45:36.:45:40.

paying a lot of attention at the Prime Minister spoke. To allow them

:45:41.:45:45.

time-limited to criticise or to speak out. What do you think of

:45:46.:45:50.

that? When something is affecting our local community, such as a major

:45:51.:45:56.

road, or Crossrail, coming through my constituency. I was very unhappy

:45:57.:46:00.

with it initially, because it will do damage to one part of the

:46:01.:46:04.

community. We have got over that, and now we are pleased that

:46:05.:46:08.

Crossrail is coming through. It will take an hour to get to Heathrow from

:46:09.:46:13.

Romford. What do you say to Boris Johnson about what he should say

:46:14.:46:18.

about the decision, and the history airport?

:46:19.:46:23.

MPs are entitled to raise concerns if it affects their constituencies,

:46:24.:46:30.

but we have to make a decision, as a government, to make a decision for

:46:31.:46:32.

the long-term interests of the United Kingdom. What is going to

:46:33.:46:36.

happen to your party when you have the Mayor of London and people like

:46:37.:46:42.

yourself who say it isn't something that should happen? If the

:46:43.:46:50.

government endorses the Davis report, you will be split, as well,

:46:51.:46:57.

won't you,? We have got to look at the report in detail. We have been

:46:58.:47:02.

waiting for quite a while. There will be different views and

:47:03.:47:05.

differing views and I will have a different view because of how it

:47:06.:47:10.

affects my constituency and when our tests have been looked through and

:47:11.:47:16.

analysed we will probably come to a collective decision as a party for

:47:17.:47:22.

the Zac Goldsmith has said he will stand down, but he has also said he

:47:23.:47:26.

will stand as an independent if the Conservatives put up a candidate

:47:27.:47:29.

against him. They have got to do that, haven't they? I hope he won't

:47:30.:47:35.

stand as an independent, David Davis stood in a by-election which he

:47:36.:47:40.

created and he stood again as a conservative or stop it has said he

:47:41.:47:47.

-- he has said he will divorce that is a matter for him and the party. I

:47:48.:47:57.

respect his decision if he goes a by-election, but at the end of the

:47:58.:48:01.

day democracy has got to decide where we build this new runway and

:48:02.:48:04.

if it is Heathrow we have got to get on with it. OK, thanks.

:48:05.:48:11.

Now, to counter rogue landlords the Liberal democrats are calling

:48:12.:48:13.

for a London-wide licensing system for all people who

:48:14.:48:15.

A few authorities do this now, like Newham -

:48:16.:48:18.

though the government hasn't decided yet whether it's

:48:19.:48:20.

going to allow the council to renew its scheme,

:48:21.:48:23.

Officers from Newham Council this week making a surprise inspection.

:48:24.:48:26.

Every landlord in the borough needs a licence from the local

:48:27.:48:33.

You might not be able to smell this, but there's quite a serious gas leak

:48:34.:48:40.

We think it's coming from the cooker.

:48:41.:48:43.

We've got a room here where everyone in the property is smoking.

:48:44.:48:48.

There's no fire detection, and then we've got a very tight

:48:49.:48:50.

kitchen with a cooker that is blocking

:48:51.:48:53.

So if there was a fire, and you're in that room,

:48:54.:49:00.

This would originally have been part of the garden,

:49:01.:49:04.

but someone's thrown up some walls and turned that into the bathroom.

:49:05.:49:07.

And if we come in, particularly unpleasant bathroom,

:49:08.:49:09.

The question is, how does this make you feel if you're living here?

:49:10.:49:19.

What impact does this have on your life?

:49:20.:49:21.

And if you're here, you can tell it's going to have a big impact

:49:22.:49:24.

There's a dehumanising element to it.

:49:25.:49:26.

How does it make you feel to live here?

:49:27.:49:28.

But you haven't got any where else to go?

:49:29.:49:33.

New research by the Liberal Democrats on the London Assembly,

:49:34.:49:40.

seen exclusively by Sunday Politics, has found that Newham are far

:49:41.:49:42.

and away the toughest council in London, taking 286 prosecutions

:49:43.:49:48.

against landlords in the last year we have figures for,

:49:49.:49:53.

In contrast, 16 London boroughs have prosecuted fewer than ten.

:49:54.:50:02.

A further eight didn't prosecute any.

:50:03.:50:03.

The Lib Dems say they want Newham-style landlord

:50:04.:50:05.

Quite a few boroughs in London have partial schemes

:50:06.:50:08.

for part of their borough, but what I want, for across

:50:09.:50:12.

London there to be a blanket licensing scheme.

:50:13.:50:14.

Landlords can offset the costs against their tax returns so it

:50:15.:50:16.

What it does mean, it enables local authorities to have the officers

:50:17.:50:22.

in place who can take action where it is needed and I think

:50:23.:50:25.

across London in the last year there have been 4000 cases

:50:26.:50:27.

where very serious hazards have been found.

:50:28.:50:30.

Whether it is not having electricity, not having

:50:31.:50:32.

People should not be living in London in those

:50:33.:50:38.

But would mandatory licensing risk punishing all the good landlords?

:50:39.:50:49.

By making them unfairly pay for all of the rogue ones.

:50:50.:50:52.

Richard Blanco from the National Landlords Association

:50:53.:50:54.

In Newham of the 22,000 landlords that have been licensed only 4%

:50:55.:51:03.

of them are deemed as being of concern and I would hope

:51:04.:51:05.

that the local authority could use their existing resources

:51:06.:51:13.

to find that relatively small number of non compliant landlords.

:51:14.:51:15.

The government seems to have no appetite for mandatory licensing.

:51:16.:51:18.

There is an issue here, you are asking every single

:51:19.:51:20.

landlord, many of whom do a perfectly good job,

:51:21.:51:22.

There's an argument for concentrating on the properties

:51:23.:51:31.

in the particular geographical area where you think

:51:32.:51:33.

That said, in Newham's case they were able to go ahead

:51:34.:51:37.

with the borough wide scheme and I think that is part of London

:51:38.:51:40.

where the problem has been at its worst.

:51:41.:51:42.

But could the government be about to call time

:51:43.:51:44.

It is due to wind up next year and the council have to reapply

:51:45.:51:48.

We will wait to see the evidence first.

:51:49.:51:52.

I think it is my job to look at the evidence of what they have

:51:53.:51:55.

done and then I will take a decision at that point in time.

:51:56.:51:59.

But what I do want your viewers to be clear about is

:52:00.:52:01.

that the government is determined to crack down on rogue landlords.

:52:02.:52:04.

It is not just that it is a disgrace that vulnerable people should be

:52:05.:52:08.

forced to live in this kind of accommodation,

:52:09.:52:09.

it is also very unfair to the legitimate people

:52:10.:52:12.

who are good landlords who are being undercut by people

:52:13.:52:14.

So, could it be, rather than the Lib Dems call for schemes

:52:15.:52:18.

like Newham to be rolled out across the capital,

:52:19.:52:21.

that we are actually about to see it all scaled back?

:52:22.:52:23.

I am joined by Sir Robin Wales, Mayor of Newham.

:52:24.:52:25.

The point made by the landlords association, just a small number

:52:26.:52:28.

that you end up tackling but everyone is buying. Two things

:52:29.:52:33.

happen, the scheme is ?1 80 per week for a landlord. -- everyone is

:52:34.:52:41.

paying. There are amateur landlords that we can help and advice, it is a

:52:42.:52:45.

supportive scheme, but they are also criminal landlords who are packing

:52:46.:52:51.

people into homes and exploiting people and the amount of anti-social

:52:52.:52:56.

behaviour that happens in these places is astonishing and that is

:52:57.:52:59.

why we originally did it across the borough, and since we have done that

:53:00.:53:03.

anti-social behaviour has fallen by 60% in those properties. You being

:53:04.:53:09.

overzealous, you are far and away out there doing it? -- you are. Why

:53:10.:53:16.

is that? We have put money into law-enforcement. Is the problem

:53:17.:53:20.

worse there than in other places? Yes. But there are other bad places,

:53:21.:53:28.

as well. Why did they not do what you have done? We have decided it

:53:29.:53:32.

was important to our residents and we put money into it. About 120

:53:33.:53:39.

people who spend a significant part of the time in forcing. It is no

:53:40.:53:44.

good having a licensing scheme unless you in force and we have got

:53:45.:53:53.

criminal landlords, which we call them, and those properties become

:53:54.:53:58.

family homes rather than places in which people live in those

:53:59.:54:03.

conditions you saw. Brent, there must be problems there? We don't

:54:04.:54:11.

have full landlord licensing in all areas of Brent, in three areas, so

:54:12.:54:14.

we are not doing as well as Newham in that respect. There is a problem

:54:15.:54:19.

with rogue landlords and they need to be weeded out. Brent prosecuted

:54:20.:54:26.

50 rogue landlords and there was one who had a daughter property. -- who

:54:27.:54:34.

had a lot of property. There is a problem? There is a scheme which

:54:35.:54:39.

issues but landlords, if they need help and people are not paying their

:54:40.:54:43.

rents, -- which is helpful to landlords. It is a scheme which is

:54:44.:54:48.

weeding out rogue landlords and making sure people have a decent

:54:49.:54:51.

place to live because those people renting in Brent has gone up 86 and

:54:52.:54:55.

that is a lot of people renting spending a lot of money for

:54:56.:55:00.

substandard accommodation. One of your local authorities is about to

:55:01.:55:02.

introduce it, do you think they should? Is it a big problem. It is

:55:03.:55:09.

becoming a real problem, and I think what Robin is saying is right. If

:55:10.:55:13.

you don't deal with it across the board you will have loopholes and

:55:14.:55:18.

people will slip through, and also you push it out. If it is dealt with

:55:19.:55:24.

in one borough but not the next the problem is pushed out further, and

:55:25.:55:27.

in Hay bring we are taking decisive action to deal with it. -- pave

:55:28.:55:33.

ring. Hopefully we will work with Newham to look at the best practice

:55:34.:55:36.

to make sure this works impractical terms. The Newham scheme is

:55:37.:55:44.

time-limited, should it be extended? Sometimes you have to let local

:55:45.:55:49.

authorities have flexibility. I m not convinced that everything needs

:55:50.:55:54.

to go via the government, there is a problem in London and it is

:55:55.:55:57.

happening across the whole of the capital, including outer London

:55:58.:56:02.

boroughs where I am, we need some kind of licensing to clamp down on

:56:03.:56:06.

these people, they are ruining local communities and destroying nice

:56:07.:56:09.

family homes and turning it into a place that no one wants to live You

:56:10.:56:14.

are organising it and paying for it and administrating it. Why should

:56:15.:56:19.

the government determine whether you should carry it on? I think it

:56:20.:56:23.

should be dealt with locally, like most things, Brent is doing partial,

:56:24.:56:28.

that is fine. They know their local situation better than government.

:56:29.:56:32.

Leaving us free to do it would be effective. I give you an example,

:56:33.:56:37.

21% of the people in my borough do not get the national minimum wage

:56:38.:56:44.

because government enforces. We have been campaigning to enforce so we

:56:45.:56:47.

stopped exploiting people in the workplace as well as in where they

:56:48.:56:50.

live, but because government hasn't given us those powers it is not

:56:51.:56:57.

enforced. Make local authorities make the decisions locally. You re

:56:58.:57:05.

not going to have a bridge going across from Galleon 's reach. You

:57:06.:57:13.

wanted that? You are disappointed? They will be a public transport link

:57:14.:57:17.

but we want more than that and we will continue to campaign along with

:57:18.:57:21.

most of East London, to say we want that bridge, but to be fair Sadiq

:57:22.:57:25.

Khan is looking at things and considering it. He has not been in

:57:26.:57:30.

that long. Let's wait eight years, if he has failed for eight years

:57:31.:57:34.

like Boris Johnson, maybe we can criticise him. He has said he might

:57:35.:57:40.

consider another DLR, but not a road. We gave up with Boris. You're

:57:41.:57:49.

going to give up with Sadiq Khan? I'd tell you the difference, Boris

:57:50.:57:53.

Johnson gave as a cable car, Sadiq Khan is talking about a proper

:57:54.:57:58.

transport link. He is listening and we will discuss it with him and we

:57:59.:58:03.

will keep campaigning. We are very helpful and very optimistic, but I

:58:04.:58:05.

will criticise him after eight years of failure like Boris. OK, we will

:58:06.:58:11.

leave you with that. Thank you. Now for the rest of the political

:58:12.:58:15.

news - in 60 seconds. London Mayor Sadiq Khan has begun

:58:16.:58:18.

lobbying for a London visa. So that businesses in the capital

:58:19.:58:22.

can continue to hire from abroad, after an anticipated end to free

:58:23.:58:25.

movement from within the EU. This is a critical issue for London

:58:26.:58:29.

business and higher education. Access to talent is a vital part

:58:30.:58:33.

of London's economy, creating jobs The Conservatives have hit out

:58:34.:58:36.

at boundary review proposals the North West London,

:58:37.:58:44.

in an attempt to keep Under current proposals

:58:45.:58:47.

Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson s seat of Uxbridge and South Ruislip

:58:48.:58:53.

will be split between the new seat of Hillingdon and Uxbridge

:58:54.:58:55.

and the existing Ruislip Northwood and Pinner seat represented by Tory

:58:56.:58:59.

minister Nick Hurd. The UK Government has been hauled

:59:00.:59:02.

back before the courts over its failure to

:59:03.:59:05.

tackle air pollution. In a case beginning this week

:59:06.:59:09.

a group called Client Earth is asking the High Court to order

:59:10.:59:13.

ministers to come up with a better If London can cope, culturally and

:59:14.:59:31.

in its attitudes, to more immigration, and needs them for its

:59:32.:59:36.

economy, should it have a special treatment, a regionalised Visa

:59:37.:59:42.

system? In order for there not to be huge panic, and currently there is,

:59:43.:59:46.

businesses are panicking, people already here are panicking about

:59:47.:59:49.

whether they will have security of job, then, yes, it makes sense. The

:59:50.:59:55.

mayor has got his campaign to say that London is open for business and

:59:56.:59:58.

he is running a very successful campaign, and I think it is so

:59:59.:00:02.

important. We need London to give thriving in the UK. We have known

:00:03.:00:07.

your position, but now this is a reality, Brexit, do you not have any

:00:08.:00:13.

concerns when you hear the City of London and big business, people

:00:14.:00:15.

saying they are worried and they worried about skills? I'm not a

:00:16.:00:21.

slightest bit worried, but I'm really pleased we now have the

:00:22.:00:24.

opportunity to have a fair immigration system. It means whether

:00:25.:00:29.

you are Italian or Indian you get the same equal chance to live and

:00:30.:00:33.

work in Britain, the current policy by being in the EU is discrimination

:00:34.:00:38.

against the Commonwealth. What about a London wide thing? It depends how

:00:39.:00:45.

you define London. I'm in Romford which is on the edge of London, is

:00:46.:00:49.

that really part of London in this context? It is a UK wide policy

:00:50.:00:55.

which is needed, definitely flexibility, where there are regions

:00:56.:00:59.

which need certain kinds of immigration and people that need

:01:00.:01:02.

work permits for particular jobs, the governor has to be sensible

:01:03.:01:06.

about implementing that policy, but it has to be our policy -- the

:01:07.:01:10.

government. We are running out of time. The mayor Sadiq Khan is going

:01:11.:01:14.

to choose whether he would like to go ahead with this policy, I know.

:01:15.:01:16.

And now back to Andrew. So, Brexit, airports,

:01:17.:01:25.

Calais and the chances With what Rory Stewart was saying

:01:26.:01:47.

there, it is clear that Islamic State is losing territory in Iraq

:01:48.:01:51.

now, and could come under pressure in Syria as well. It used to control

:01:52.:01:58.

a whole swathe of the coast of Libya, and is now down to a small

:01:59.:02:06.

area of Sirte in Libya. But curiously, it could make them more

:02:07.:02:09.

dangerous here if they are being driven out of the Maghreb and the

:02:10.:02:14.

Levant, they could be more dangerous here. Discuss. That was a very

:02:15.:02:19.

interesting admission from a government minister, of all people,

:02:20.:02:24.

and a well-informed one. Chasing Isis around the Middle East is

:02:25.:02:32.

about... Like chasing Al-Qaeda around Afghanistan and Pakistan You

:02:33.:02:35.

smash them somewhere, and they pop up somewhere else. He is right to

:02:36.:02:44.

warn that these guys will go somewhere. And it may well be, in

:02:45.:02:56.

Sirte, for example, across the magic oration -- across the Mediterranean

:02:57.:03:01.

into Italy. A lot of the foreign fighters in Mosul have already gone,

:03:02.:03:04.

we heard, which raises the question, to where? I think it is quite right

:03:05.:03:13.

for government ministers to warn that it might have repercussions

:03:14.:03:17.

here. We have been involved in this, with full public consent, as far as

:03:18.:03:22.

we can tell. If it doesn't happen, if there are horrors and outrages

:03:23.:03:26.

here and in the rest of Europe, that's fine. If it does happen, at

:03:27.:03:33.

least the government is prepared. We knew surprised about how categorical

:03:34.:03:41.

Nia Griffith was? She was categorical about support for the

:03:42.:03:47.

Allied action in Iraq, and categorical about Russia. So much so

:03:48.:03:54.

that perhaps written should take tougher sanctions on its own, even

:03:55.:03:59.

if it can't get the Europeans to fall in line. I found that

:04:00.:04:04.

interesting. I was surprised by that. Tom may be right that Rory

:04:05.:04:09.

said more than perhaps he was intending, but I thought that some

:04:10.:04:14.

of what she said sounded politically imprudent in the current context of

:04:15.:04:18.

the Labour Party. I'm not sure she cleared those lines with the Labour

:04:19.:04:23.

office. I'm not sure she and Jeremy are in the same place about it. I'm

:04:24.:04:28.

not sure there is that much leadership. People at the moment get

:04:29.:04:31.

out there and say what they think it's right for the party. She

:04:32.:04:36.

sounded dead right to me. Whether it is ill-advised or not, people should

:04:37.:04:42.

answer... I want to move on, because Brexit never goes away. This week we

:04:43.:04:48.

saw Hilary Benn, former Shadow Foreign Secretary. He is going to be

:04:49.:04:52.

the chair of the select committee in the Commons which will monitor the

:04:53.:04:56.

Department for Brexit. All sorts of people will be coming to give

:04:57.:05:00.

testimony and so one. Let's hear what he told Andrew Marr.

:05:01.:05:03.

I think it will be very important for the government to indicate that

:05:04.:05:06.

if it is not possible within the two years provided for by Article 5

:05:07.:05:09.

to negotiate both our withdrawal agreement and a new trading

:05:10.:05:12.

relationship, market access, including for services,

:05:13.:05:13.

80% of our economy, million jobs, in financial services,

:05:14.:05:15.

that it should tell the House of Commons that it will seek

:05:16.:05:18.

a transitional arrangement with the European Union.

:05:19.:05:24.

If the deal is not done at the end of the two-year Article 50 process,

:05:25.:05:33.

would the government go for an interim agreement, or would it fall

:05:34.:05:38.

back on WTO, World Trade Organisation, Rawls? My

:05:39.:05:43.

understanding is the article 15 negotiation doesn't specifically

:05:44.:05:46.

include what Britain's future trading relationship with the EU

:05:47.:05:51.

would be. It is perfectly possible that Article 50 could be triggered,

:05:52.:05:56.

and after two years we don't have a trade deal, but the trade deal

:05:57.:06:01.

negotiations are ongoing when we are outside the EU. But the trade deal

:06:02.:06:12.

negotiations are the most important thing. If Article 50 doesn't cover

:06:13.:06:14.

it, what is it about? Absolutely essential. The trade deal with

:06:15.:06:17.

Canada has taken nine years, and now it looks like it is fading, because

:06:18.:06:25.

of the Walloons. Just one small part of the country. If you cannot do a

:06:26.:06:34.

free-trade deal with Canada, a progressive, social Democratic

:06:35.:06:37.

Canada, who can the EU do a trade deal with? You would think it would

:06:38.:06:42.

be easy with us, because we have all of the level playing field

:06:43.:06:45.

agreements in place. You would hope it would be easier, but it may not

:06:46.:06:51.

be, because in the end, it will hinge on the single market and if we

:06:52.:06:56.

are in or out. If we are in, can we have a small break on immigration?

:06:57.:07:05.

It looks like not. What is interesting about the opinion polls

:07:06.:07:07.

is, in the last two opinion polls there was a significant change in

:07:08.:07:12.

public opinion, where people are now saying they think that actually

:07:13.:07:16.

trade, the economy, the single market is more important than

:07:17.:07:21.

immigration. If it is really true, as the observer is reporting today,

:07:22.:07:26.

that banks are on the move, and in a year's time there could be a

:07:27.:07:30.

significant collapse in the income we get from finance, the income that

:07:31.:07:34.

the Treasury gets, then public opinion might change. They may say,

:07:35.:07:45.

we don't want more immigration, but this isn't a price worth paying

:07:46.:07:48.

Everything tends to be seen through the Brexit lens at the moment.

:07:49.:07:56.

Things are not always as they seem. The Canadian- EU free trade

:07:57.:07:59.

agreement was about increasing free trade between the EU and Canada and

:08:00.:08:04.

therefore subject to the ratification of all members. Any

:08:05.:08:08.

deal we do will not give us the same access we have at the moment. The

:08:09.:08:14.

question is, how much will it be diminished? It may not be subject to

:08:15.:08:20.

the same ratification process. Absolutely right. Another

:08:21.:08:22.

unbelievably technical point that we still don't know is, if we can get

:08:23.:08:29.

this free-trade deal with the EU at the same time as our Brexit talks

:08:30.:08:34.

and deal, the divorce deal as well as the remarriage deal, then one

:08:35.:08:42.

gets signed off by QM V. The trade deal may still need all 28, all 27,

:08:43.:08:51.

including the people from the Walloons. And the MEPs. The majority

:08:52.:08:57.

of parliament. This is exactly why Theresa May would like the

:08:58.:09:01.

transitional deal to push this one deeper. I was surprised to hear

:09:02.:09:05.

Hilary Benn pushing this line this morning. The remainers have been all

:09:06.:09:09.

over the place. They wanted a vote after Article 50 had been triggered

:09:10.:09:14.

about the deal. Then they wanted a vote before Article 50. Now they are

:09:15.:09:22.

talking about a vote before article Article 50 is triggered about a

:09:23.:09:27.

trade deal. They need to make up their minds about what it is they

:09:28.:09:31.

are pushing for, and what their best hope of obstructing Brexit is, and

:09:32.:09:37.

stick with it. Something else we see through the Brexit lens, which isn't

:09:38.:09:42.

always helpful, is Calais. The French bulldozers will move in

:09:43.:09:46.

tomorrow. We will see some pretty disturbing scenes on the TV. We will

:09:47.:09:51.

see some horrible scenes. The government has handled this very

:09:52.:09:55.

badly. Having passed an amendment in April saying we would take something

:09:56.:10:01.

like 3000 children, a lot of those children have disappeared. Save the

:10:02.:10:04.

Children, one of the charities there, are very worried that people

:10:05.:10:08.

traffickers have been in there, and a lot of those children have

:10:09.:10:16.

vanished. We haven't sent social workers in. No preparations have

:10:17.:10:21.

been made what ever. You are raising an interesting point. We don't know

:10:22.:10:27.

how many we are meant to be taking. The huge argument has arisen over

:10:28.:10:31.

what the age is of some of the ones coming in. Is this another problem

:10:32.:10:38.

for the Home Office? To some extent. Didn't Theresa May 's too well to

:10:39.:10:43.

survive six weeks of this? Amber Rudd has been there for three

:10:44.:10:48.

months. It is clear that the Home Office didn't prepare for this. They

:10:49.:10:51.

didn't prepare for the age verification or when it will go It

:10:52.:10:59.

needs to be an perfect. We don't know how many we will take, because

:11:00.:11:05.

the Home Office will not say. I want to talk about airport capacity, but

:11:06.:11:09.

I won't, because I don't think we have anything to say about it until

:11:10.:11:15.

the statement on Tuesday from Transport Minister Grayling. When

:11:16.:11:19.

you look at the polls and see the decision on airport runway expansion

:11:20.:11:22.

being kicked into the long grass for a year, are we heading for an early

:11:23.:11:27.

election next year or not? I think Theresa May will do everything she

:11:28.:11:32.

can to avoid it. If there is an election before 2020, it is bound to

:11:33.:11:40.

be about Europe, and that is a much harder case for her to win than just

:11:41.:11:43.

a question of who is the best Prime Minister. She will have a tough

:11:44.:11:47.

time, because it will be a general election about in or out of the

:11:48.:11:52.

single market. Half of her party will peel away. How do she conduct a

:11:53.:11:58.

general election when the likes of Anna Soubry will not stand on the

:11:59.:12:03.

same platform? It will be difficult. But she may reach such a stalemate

:12:04.:12:12.

that she just calls one. No general election next year because it will

:12:13.:12:15.

split the Tory party. There will be won in 2019 when she cannot get

:12:16.:12:19.

Brexit through the House of Commons. You really can have too much of a

:12:20.:12:23.

good thing. I just want to show a little clip of the former Shadow

:12:24.:12:28.

Chancellor, Ed Balls, from Strictly last night. Let's just watch this.

:12:29.:12:32.

There he is. Where is the hand? That is the

:12:33.:12:44.

worrying bit! We will no longer be saying that Ed Balls is a safe pair

:12:45.:12:52.

of hands! Can we agree on that? Remarkable that he was once the man

:12:53.:12:56.

most feared by David Cameron! Labour leader 2021. He has hit popular

:12:57.:13:05.

culture in the way that many few politicians do. Charm, gusto,

:13:06.:13:11.

bravery, no worries about being embarrassed. All the things that you

:13:12.:13:18.

don't like about being a politician. We have run out of time. You can get

:13:19.:13:20.

it on social media. Jo Coburn will be back

:13:21.:13:23.

with the Daily Politics tomorrow And I'll be back here next

:13:24.:13:25.

Sunday at the same time. Remember if it's Sunday,

:13:26.:13:29.

it's the Sunday Politics. Everyone's living these

:13:30.:14:03.

amazing lives, You're like a...

:14:04.:14:05.

Different person? Delve deeper.

:14:06.:14:16.

Ordinary Lives continues... They have something on me

:14:17.:14:25.

that I can actually remember. They have something on me

:14:26.:14:26.

that I can actually remember. The final chapter between

:14:27.:14:30.

Gibson and Spector.

:14:31.:14:35.

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