Browse content similar to 29/01/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Donald Trump's travel ban on refugees and citizens of seven | :01:07. | :01:11. | |
mainly Muslim countries sparks protests at several US airports. | :01:12. | :01:13. | |
The President says "it's working out very nicely" | :01:14. | :01:15. | |
After getting too close to comfort for some to the US President, | :01:16. | :01:19. | |
Theresa May refuses to condemn his refugee ban despite being asked | :01:20. | :01:22. | |
about it three times at a press conference. | :01:23. | :01:24. | |
Should she have spoken out more strongly? | :01:25. | :01:26. | |
We'll ask former Ukip leader and Trump confidant Nigel Farage | :01:27. | :01:28. | |
what he makes of the travel ban and the Prime Minister's | :01:29. | :01:31. | |
In London this week, the mayor, Sadiq Khan, | :01:32. | :01:34. | |
has been coming under pressure to explain his fares freeze | :01:35. | :01:36. | |
and why it doesn't apply to everybody. | :01:37. | :01:38. | |
And with me, the best and brightest political | :01:39. | :01:40. | |
panel in the business - Steve Richards, Julia | :01:41. | :01:41. | |
They'll be tweeting throughout the programme. | :01:42. | :01:44. | |
It was soon after Theresa May left the White House on Friday that | :01:45. | :01:47. | |
Donald Trump signed the executive order banning citizens from seven | :01:48. | :01:50. | |
President Trump's 90-day ban covers Iran, Iraq, | :01:51. | :01:56. | |
Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen and Syria, from | :01:57. | :01:59. | |
where refugees are banned from until further notice. | :02:00. | :02:03. | |
Donald Trump's executive order also imposes a complete ban | :02:04. | :02:06. | |
on all refugees coming to the US for the next 120 days. | :02:07. | :02:11. | |
Mr Trump said that the ban would keep radical Islamic terrorists out | :02:12. | :02:15. | |
But the ban has sparked protests across the US, | :02:16. | :02:24. | |
as people affected and already in the air were detained | :02:25. | :02:26. | |
US laws have begun legal action to challenge the ban, which many | :02:27. | :02:30. | |
At a press conference in Ankara, Turkey, Theresa May was asked | :02:31. | :02:36. | |
about the refugee ban three times before giving this response... | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
Well, the United States is responsible for the United States' | :02:41. | :02:43. | |
The United Kingdom is responsible for the United Kingdom's policy | :02:44. | :02:49. | |
on refugees, and our policy on refugees is to have a number | :02:50. | :02:52. | |
of voluntary schemes to bring Syrian refugees into the country. | :02:53. | :02:54. | |
Downing Street later issued a statement saying: | :02:55. | :03:09. | |
This morning, the Treasury Minister, David Gauke, was asked why | :03:10. | :03:12. | |
Theresa May had refused to condemn the travel ban at yesterday's | :03:13. | :03:14. | |
The Prime Minister is not a shoot-from-the-hip | :03:15. | :03:20. | |
She wants to see the evidence, she wants | :03:21. | :03:25. | |
to understand precisely what the implications are. | :03:26. | :03:29. | |
She'd been in a series of very lengthy meetings with | :03:30. | :03:32. | |
President Erdogan, and she's someone who wants to see the briefing and | :03:33. | :03:36. | |
understand it, and then will respond to that. | :03:37. | :03:39. | |
I think there are times where, you know, there's always | :03:40. | :03:42. | |
pressure to respond within a news cycle and so on. | :03:43. | :03:45. | |
The important thing is, we are saying we disagree with it | :03:46. | :03:47. | |
We're joined now from North London by the Conservative | :03:48. | :03:51. | |
Should the Government in general and Theresa May in particular be more | :03:52. | :04:03. | |
vocal in their criticism of Donald Trump's travel bans? Well, as David | :04:04. | :04:12. | |
just said, it is obviously right that Theresa has now said this is an | :04:13. | :04:15. | |
appropriate and not something we agree with in our Government, but I | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
wish she had said something at the time, not least because it affects | :04:20. | :04:26. | |
our own citizens. One of our own MPs, Nadhim, for example, because it | :04:27. | :04:30. | |
is also a global crisis. She had clearly built an excellent with | :04:31. | :04:37. | |
Donald Trump -- she had built an excellent relationship with him, but | :04:38. | :04:41. | |
she could have been firmer. Mrs May hasn't said any word of criticism | :04:42. | :04:45. | |
about the travel bans. She refused to say anything three times in | :04:46. | :04:51. | |
Ankara, and it is merely an anonymous Downing Street | :04:52. | :04:54. | |
spokesperson that has issued the subsequent mild criticism. We have | :04:55. | :04:57. | |
not heard from the Prime Minister at all on this matter in terms of | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
criticism. No, but the spokesperson will be speaking with her blessing, | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
so it is clearly something she has acknowledged. As I said before, I | :05:07. | :05:09. | |
wish she had said something at the time. The global climate at the | :05:10. | :05:13. | |
moment is delicate and we need our leaders to work together to address | :05:14. | :05:18. | |
things like the refugee crisis. Potentially, this plays into the | :05:19. | :05:22. | |
hands of Daesh. It is absolutely not the right message. What would you | :05:23. | :05:30. | |
like the Prime Minister to say? As with any new relationship, it is | :05:31. | :05:33. | |
about testing the boundaries. They had clearly got on well, so she | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
should have felt braver to say something there and then. I would | :05:38. | :05:40. | |
have preferred her to say, for example, I need to talk to Donald | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
Trump about this. It is not something I support and I want to | :05:44. | :05:46. | |
understand why because I believe there is a better way to deal with | :05:47. | :05:50. | |
the terrorist threat. I would have liked her to suggest that she would | :05:51. | :05:54. | |
engage with him to do that. The president has instituted a 90 day | :05:55. | :05:58. | |
temporary ban on people coming from seven mainly Muslim majority | :05:59. | :06:04. | |
population countries. The seven were on President Obama's list of the | :06:05. | :06:09. | |
biggest terrorist threats to the United States. Mr Trump wants this | :06:10. | :06:14. | |
temporary ban until he puts tougher vetting procedures in place. What is | :06:15. | :06:19. | |
wrong with that? Because it appeared to me that it wasn't thought through | :06:20. | :06:24. | |
and it was affecting ordinary citizens and some British citizens. | :06:25. | :06:27. | |
It can't be right that a president in that position of power can | :06:28. | :06:31. | |
arbitrarily come up with executive powers like that. It has already | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
been challenged by his own courts. So it is not the considered approach | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
I want to see in a global leader. Who do you believe will be hurt by | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
this, given that there can be exceptions on a case-by-case basis? | :06:46. | :06:59. | |
I think potentially, our global reputation is going to be hurt by | :07:00. | :07:04. | |
this. I have been to the refugee camps in Europe myself. There are | :07:05. | :07:09. | |
desperate people trying to free persecution who will be hurt by | :07:10. | :07:12. | |
this. We are trying to heal the wounds in this country not only | :07:13. | :07:16. | |
because of Brexit. This is a time of coming together, not about saying it | :07:17. | :07:19. | |
is located discriminatory against race and religion in this way. Do | :07:20. | :07:23. | |
you believe that Mr Trump's state visit should go ahead? Well, he is | :07:24. | :07:30. | |
the leader of America, so it does need to go ahead and we need to work | :07:31. | :07:33. | |
with him. I believe Theresa has started in a positive manner was | :07:34. | :07:37. | |
that she just needs to continue in that vein. If he comes to our | :07:38. | :07:40. | |
country, he needs to respect the way we feel about things. But yes, he is | :07:41. | :07:46. | |
the president, so he does need to come to the UK. There is some debate | :07:47. | :07:50. | |
within Westminster as to where it is appropriate for him to speak to MPs, | :07:51. | :07:54. | |
but it is right that he comes. But if he does come on a state visit, | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
should he be granted what this country has always thought of as a | :07:59. | :08:01. | |
great honour, which is a joint address to both Houses of | :08:02. | :08:07. | |
Parliament? I haven't been an MP long enough to understand the | :08:08. | :08:10. | |
protocol of where is the right location for him to do that, but I | :08:11. | :08:15. | |
believe in the past, it has been the greatest leaders, when they have | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
achieved great things globally, it is Westminster Hall. But there are a | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
number of MPs saying that is not the most appropriate place and I am | :08:25. | :08:28. | |
inclined to agree. You don't think he should be accorded the privilege | :08:29. | :08:31. | |
of speaking to a joint session of Parliament? I think there are places | :08:32. | :08:36. | |
where he can do that, but Westminster Hall is not yet the | :08:37. | :08:39. | |
right place. Thank you for joining us. | :08:40. | :08:50. | |
Steve, within 24 hours, we have seen the difficulty of becoming Donald | :08:51. | :08:56. | |
Trump's best friend. On the one hand, it could have huge advantages, | :08:57. | :09:00. | |
particularly for a Brexit Britain. On the other hand, if you are going | :09:01. | :09:05. | |
to be his best friend, you don't have to give a running commentary on | :09:06. | :09:10. | |
every major thing he does. Yeah. We have learned a bit about Theresa | :09:11. | :09:15. | |
May, that when she has to produce a set piece speech which she has time | :09:16. | :09:21. | |
to prepare, she can get it totally right and sometimes more than right. | :09:22. | :09:25. | |
When she is faced with a fast-moving story, she is leaden footed and | :09:26. | :09:34. | |
can't think quickly on her feet. We know, did she regret not saying | :09:35. | :09:38. | |
more? Evidently she did, because we got a statement from the Downing | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
Street spokesperson saying more. So she can't think quickly. She's going | :09:43. | :09:46. | |
to have to think very quickly in response to some of the things he's | :09:47. | :09:49. | |
going to be doing, because she will be asked about it all the time. It | :09:50. | :09:54. | |
does highlight the wider danger that the assumption that the special | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
relationship is always a safe and fertile place to be has been proven | :10:00. | :10:03. | |
wrong before and I think it will be proven wrong big-time in this case. | :10:04. | :10:08. | |
You're shaking your head. I don't see why we are responsible for | :10:09. | :10:13. | |
American domestic policy. I am as appalled as the next person by what | :10:14. | :10:16. | |
Donald Trump has done. He said he was going to do this, which was why | :10:17. | :10:22. | |
I did not want Americans to vote for him. In fact, what he has | :10:23. | :10:25. | |
implemented is much less than what he said he would do when he was | :10:26. | :10:30. | |
campaigning. I have always felt that the campaigning Trump was the real | :10:31. | :10:36. | |
Trump. But what he has done is actually constitutional. He has the | :10:37. | :10:39. | |
executive power to issue this order. It is within the rules in terms of a | :10:40. | :10:45. | |
class of aliens deemed to be a risk to the United States. It is a 90 day | :10:46. | :10:49. | |
limited ban. The last president who did this was a Democrat president, | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
President Carter. He did it in the aftermath of the Iranian crisis. | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
Well, given the spate of terror attacks on American territory in | :11:00. | :11:03. | |
recent years, you could argue that he meant well. I don't agree with | :11:04. | :11:11. | |
Donald Trump. But have people from these countries that he has banned | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
been involved in terrorist attacks? That is the absurdity. He has not | :11:16. | :11:20. | |
included Egypt or Pakistan. But I don't remove everyone getting in | :11:21. | :11:23. | |
such a state about President Carter. The reality is that it is a legal | :11:24. | :11:26. | |
thing for him to do. I don't like it. But it is not my territory. It | :11:27. | :11:36. | |
is illegal, because they have been given a right to remain by a judge | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
in Brooklyn and another judging Alexandra. That is a different issue | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
for people who have already gone through the vetting. I don't agree | :11:47. | :11:52. | |
with this. However, I don't think it's reasonable to say that Theresa | :11:53. | :11:56. | |
May, because she wants to do a deal with Donald Trump, I don't give is | :11:57. | :12:01. | |
reasonable to say she have to agree with each of his policies. It is | :12:02. | :12:07. | |
nonsense. But the issue, Janan, is not whether she needs to agree with | :12:08. | :12:11. | |
him. The question is that she will be questioned about him all the time | :12:12. | :12:17. | |
now. And although these are matters of domestic policy, the refugee | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
policy is international. They speak to issues that affect Britain as | :12:22. | :12:27. | |
well, and I would suggest that she will not get away with this | :12:28. | :12:31. | |
anonymous statement from Downing Street. People will demand a she | :12:32. | :12:35. | |
says something on the record. She would get away with it indefinitely. | :12:36. | :12:39. | |
These situations will recur every time Donald Trump says or does | :12:40. | :12:43. | |
something contentious. She will be pressed to this associate her | :12:44. | :12:48. | |
administration from his. She will probably be in a better logistical | :12:49. | :12:52. | |
situation to do so. She has spent a big chunk of the past 72 hours in | :12:53. | :12:57. | |
the air. She flew from Washington to Ankara, than from Ankara to London. | :12:58. | :13:01. | |
We don't have Air Force One, we don't have those frictionless | :13:02. | :13:04. | |
communications with the ground. She would have been incommunicado for | :13:05. | :13:08. | |
large periods of time when this story was breaking. That doesn't | :13:09. | :13:12. | |
excuse the stiff response when she landed and issued a statement via | :13:13. | :13:16. | |
Downing Street. But during that delay, she did have a plausible | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
excuse. She has also got a much more tricky geopolitical situation than | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
many other world leaders. She has to strike a favourable trade deal with | :13:25. | :13:29. | |
the new US president. It is all very well people saying Justin Trudeau of | :13:30. | :13:33. | |
Canada was much more vociferous in his criticism of Donald Trump. He is | :13:34. | :13:36. | |
already in Nafta, he is not striking a new deal. For how long, we don't | :13:37. | :13:42. | |
know. Exactly, he's trying to stay in Nafta, but he is in a less tricky | :13:43. | :13:44. | |
situation than she is. Now, Theresa May's was the first | :13:45. | :13:49. | |
foreign leader to meet President Trump and the visit | :13:50. | :13:51. | |
was seen as quite a coup for the Prime Minister, | :13:52. | :13:54. | |
keen for a new trading relationship with the United States | :13:55. | :13:56. | |
in the wake of Brexit. The Prime Minister congratulated | :13:57. | :13:58. | |
the new US President for his "stunning election victory" | :13:59. | :14:00. | |
but might not have intended to be pictured walking | :14:01. | :14:03. | |
through the White House with him That picture of Donald Trump helping | :14:04. | :14:05. | |
Theresa May down the steps through the White House colonnade | :14:06. | :14:09. | |
will be the enduring image Mrs May said the President | :14:10. | :14:12. | |
told her he was "100% behind Nato". And for her part, the Prime Minister | :14:13. | :14:20. | |
said she would work hard to make sure other Nato countries | :14:21. | :14:24. | |
increased their defence spending It's been announced | :14:25. | :14:27. | |
that there will be a new trade negotiation agreement, | :14:28. | :14:33. | |
with high-level talks The hope is that this will lead | :14:34. | :14:35. | |
to a new trade deal between the two countries as soon as | :14:36. | :14:40. | |
Britain leaves the EU. Mr Trump said he believed "Brexit's | :14:41. | :14:45. | |
going to be a wonderful thing". On Russia, Theresa May made clear | :14:46. | :14:47. | |
to Donald Trump her continued | :14:48. | :14:50. | |
backing for sanctions. And following the controversy over | :14:51. | :14:56. | |
the President's support for torture, Mr Trump said he would defer | :14:57. | :14:58. | |
to his Secretary of Defense, General James Mattis, who argues | :14:59. | :15:01. | |
that the practice doesn't work. And I'm joined now by the former | :15:02. | :15:04. | |
Ukip leader, Nigel Farage. Do you agree with Mr Trump's | :15:05. | :15:20. | |
decision to ban Syrian refugees indefinitely from entering the | :15:21. | :15:25. | |
United States? I agree with the concept of democracy, a point which | :15:26. | :15:29. | |
appears to be missed by almost all commentators including the BBC. He | :15:30. | :15:33. | |
was elected to get tough and say he would do everything in his power to | :15:34. | :15:37. | |
protect America from infiltration by ISIS terrorists. There are seven | :15:38. | :15:45. | |
countries on that list. He's entitled to do this. I didn't ask if | :15:46. | :15:51. | |
he was entitled, I asked if agree with it. I do, because if you just | :15:52. | :15:57. | |
look at what's happening in France and Germany, if you look at Angela | :15:58. | :16:00. | |
Merkel's policy which was to allow virtually anyone in from anywhere, | :16:01. | :16:06. | |
look what it led to. You said in 2013 there's a responsibility on all | :16:07. | :16:10. | |
of us in the free west to help some of those people fleeing Syria | :16:11. | :16:15. | |
literally in fear of their lives. That's the Christian community in | :16:16. | :16:20. | |
virtually all of those country, it is almost too late because many have | :16:21. | :16:23. | |
been wiped out but if you are looking for a genuine definition of | :16:24. | :16:29. | |
a refugee, going back to 1951, it is someone in direct fear of | :16:30. | :16:34. | |
persecution of their life because of their race, religion or beliefs. But | :16:35. | :16:38. | |
you didn't talk about only Christians, and in January 2014 you | :16:39. | :16:42. | |
said, I seem to recall it was Ukip who started the debate on allowing | :16:43. | :16:46. | |
Syrian refugees, you seem to be in favour of allowing proper refugees | :16:47. | :16:53. | |
into this country. If they can be defined. Mr Trump won't let any in. | :16:54. | :17:01. | |
He is running American policy, not British policy. Since I made those | :17:02. | :17:05. | |
comments, we have had the Angela Merkel madness and I think Trump's | :17:06. | :17:09. | |
policy in many ways has been shaped by what Angela Merkel did. He is | :17:10. | :17:14. | |
fully entitled to do this, and as far as we are concerned in this | :17:15. | :17:17. | |
country, I would like to see extreme vetting. Since 9/11 can you name any | :17:18. | :17:27. | |
terrorist event in the United States that has involved refugees that have | :17:28. | :17:32. | |
been allowed into the country? No, in fact the terrorist events have | :17:33. | :17:36. | |
been US citizens radicalised. When you have a problem already, why | :17:37. | :17:41. | |
would you wish to add to it? I would remind you that of the eight people | :17:42. | :17:44. | |
that committed those atrocities in Paris, five of them had got into | :17:45. | :17:48. | |
Europe posing as refugees so there is an issue here. But perhaps not | :17:49. | :17:54. | |
for America because it has the most rigorous and lengthy screening | :17:55. | :17:58. | |
process in the world, especially for Syrians. You have to register with | :17:59. | :18:03. | |
the UN agency for refugees, which then recommend certain names to | :18:04. | :18:07. | |
America, they then go through biometric screening, database | :18:08. | :18:11. | |
screening, intelligent screenings, including four separate intelligence | :18:12. | :18:22. | |
agencies screening you. How more rigorous would you want it to be? It | :18:23. | :18:29. | |
is much more rigorous than we are or the rest of Europe. This is why we | :18:30. | :18:33. | |
have elections, so voters can make choices and they voted for Donald | :18:34. | :18:36. | |
Trump to become president and he said he would put bans in place and | :18:37. | :18:42. | |
then move towards extreme vetting. As far as the Syrians are concerned | :18:43. | :18:45. | |
he's made that decision but that's what he was voted in fourth. Since | :18:46. | :18:52. | |
you know him, you have met him, you are confident of his, I'm testing | :18:53. | :18:57. | |
you on the logic of it. Not that he's democratically elected, I'm not | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
asking about that, I'm trying to get the case, particularly since if you | :19:02. | :19:04. | |
take the seven countries of which the ban applies for 19 days, again, | :19:05. | :19:11. | |
of these seven countries, its citizens have not been involved in | :19:12. | :19:14. | |
terrorist attacks in the United States. It would be a mistake to say | :19:15. | :19:19. | |
it is just Muslim countries because the biggest Muslim countries in the | :19:20. | :19:22. | |
world have not been included in this. The point is they have made | :19:23. | :19:25. | |
this assessment, they bought themselves 90 days to think about | :19:26. | :19:31. | |
the policy. This is exactly what Trump's voters would have wanted him | :19:32. | :19:37. | |
to do. You said the President's rhetoric on immigrants made even you | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
feel very uncomfortable. Because he started by saying there was a total | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
ban, then amended it to say there would be vetting. My guess is that | :19:47. | :19:51. | |
what he will do is try to genuinely help Syrian people and he will be | :19:52. | :19:55. | |
talking about the creation of some safe zones. Let's see. He hasn't. We | :19:56. | :20:02. | |
will see. I suspect something like that is coming down the trap. What | :20:03. | :20:08. | |
advice did you give to the president and his advisers ahead of Theresa | :20:09. | :20:14. | |
May's visit? That I wanted us to talk about trade and to give the | :20:15. | :20:18. | |
Prime Minister the impression that actually... When she has been | :20:19. | :20:22. | |
surrounded by her whole career by civil servants and politicians who | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
say that everything takes five years or seven years or ten years, to make | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
it clear to the Prime Minister that if there is will, these things can | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
be done quickly. Isn't there a danger of a British Prime Minister | :20:36. | :20:39. | |
who has to deal with the president of the United States, to Ally | :20:40. | :20:44. | |
herself so closely with such an unpredictable, controversial | :20:45. | :20:50. | |
president, banning Muslims in certain ways and refugees, building | :20:51. | :20:54. | |
a war with Mexico, threatening trade was with other countries, thinking | :20:55. | :20:58. | |
of ending sanctions against Russia? I missing something here, what is | :20:59. | :21:03. | |
controversial about defending the Mexican border? Bill Clinton spoke | :21:04. | :21:08. | |
in tough terms, George Bush built six miles of fence, and because it | :21:09. | :21:13. | |
is Donald Trump there is uproar. So you think there is no risk of the | :21:14. | :21:16. | |
British by Minister being the best friend of this type of president? I | :21:17. | :21:20. | |
think there is no risk in putting together a trade deal and no risk in | :21:21. | :21:24. | |
her being the bridge between America and the rest of Nato to say to Nato | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
members if you don't pay your 2% he is serious so on those things there | :21:30. | :21:35. | |
is no risk at all. It was clear from her Lancaster house speech that the | :21:36. | :21:39. | |
Brexiteers in the Government had won pretty much every argument in terms | :21:40. | :21:43. | |
of negotiations to come out. What you want from her? She was very good | :21:44. | :21:51. | |
as Home Secretary, Tory party conferences, the Tory press saying | :21:52. | :21:54. | |
this was the new Thatcher and she failed. She even failed to control | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
immigration from outside the European Union so yes, it was a good | :22:00. | :22:03. | |
speech and for many on the Eurosceptic side of the argument, I | :22:04. | :22:07. | |
could scarcely believe that a British Prime Minister was saying | :22:08. | :22:10. | |
things which I had been roundly abused and vilified for. But I have | :22:11. | :22:17. | |
a feeling we may be in for a very frustrating 2017. The mood as I can | :22:18. | :22:21. | |
see it in Brussels is that negotiating with Britain is not a | :22:22. | :22:25. | |
priority, they are far more worried about Dutch elections, French | :22:26. | :22:29. | |
elections, German elections and possibly even Italian elections. I | :22:30. | :22:34. | |
worry that by the end of this year we may not have made much progress | :22:35. | :22:37. | |
and that's why the Trump visit suddenly things brings into focus. | :22:38. | :22:44. | |
What if by the middle of June, for argument 's sake, the Americans say | :22:45. | :22:48. | |
OK we reached this position with the British, compromised on the tough | :22:49. | :22:52. | |
stuff, food standards and things like that, we are ready to sign a | :22:53. | :22:58. | |
deal now, and Theresa May is to say actually Mr Juncker says I cannot | :22:59. | :23:02. | |
sign this until we leave. What will they do? They cannot throw us out, | :23:03. | :23:08. | |
we are living anyway. But everybody agrees you can talk about the deal, | :23:09. | :23:12. | |
maybe even do the heads of agreement but you cannot sign a treaty until | :23:13. | :23:17. | |
we have left the EU. Let me predict that at the end of this year we will | :23:18. | :23:21. | |
find a European Union who frankly don't want to talk to us and | :23:22. | :23:24. | |
countries around the world that want to get on and do things and that | :23:25. | :23:29. | |
will be the big tension for Mrs May over the course of this year. If the | :23:30. | :23:33. | |
Prime Minister is giving you everything you want on Brexit, you | :23:34. | :23:37. | |
agree that she's trying to get from your point of view the right things. | :23:38. | :23:41. | |
If she delivers on that and get Brexit on the terms of which you | :23:42. | :23:46. | |
approve, what's the point of Ukip? You could argue that about any | :23:47. | :23:51. | |
political party. If we have achieved the goal that we set out to achieve, | :23:52. | :23:56. | |
there are right now out there 4 million people who are Ukip | :23:57. | :24:00. | |
loyalists. They are delighted that by voting Ukip we got a referendum, | :24:01. | :24:05. | |
they will be even happier if they seek us leave the European Union and | :24:06. | :24:09. | |
I think there is still a gap in British politics for a party that | :24:10. | :24:14. | |
says it as it sees it, is not afraid by political correctness and is seen | :24:15. | :24:17. | |
to be on the side of the little people, and that's why, with the | :24:18. | :24:22. | |
Labour Party is fundamentally split, and it really is totally split over | :24:23. | :24:27. | |
this European question, I think Ukip is in good shape. That proposition | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
will be put to test at the Stoke Central by-election, one of Ukip's | :24:32. | :24:36. | |
best prospects in the country. Some people call it the capital of | :24:37. | :24:40. | |
Brexit. Labour is in chaos over Article 50, is picked a candidate to | :24:41. | :24:47. | |
fight Stoke Central who has described Brexit is a pile of notes. | :24:48. | :24:56. | |
If your successor, Paul Nuttall, cannot win the Stoke by-election, | :24:57. | :25:00. | |
there's not much hope for you, is there? I think he will. I've always | :25:01. | :25:04. | |
been told don't make predictions but I think he will win. If you doesn't | :25:05. | :25:10. | |
it will be tough, we will still have our 4 million loyalists, but if it | :25:11. | :25:15. | |
does we can actually see Labour are beatable in their heartlands and | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
Ukip will be off to the second big stage. Nigel Farage, thank you for | :25:20. | :25:22. | |
being with us. It's just gone 11.25, | :25:23. | :25:23. | |
you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers | :25:24. | :25:25. | |
in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 15 minutes, I'll | :25:26. | :25:28. | |
be talking to our political panel. First though, the Sunday | :25:29. | :25:32. | |
Politics where you are. We've got a shorter segment | :25:33. | :25:41. | |
for you this week, but ready to pack a lot in are our guests | :25:42. | :25:48. | |
Clive Efford, Labour MP for Eltham, and Chris Philp, Conservative MP | :25:49. | :25:56. | |
for Croydon South. Let's kick off with proposals | :25:57. | :25:58. | |
to devolve more financial powers to the Mayor | :25:59. | :26:02. | |
and the capital's boroughs. The suggestions are contained | :26:03. | :26:04. | |
in the second report of the London Finance | :26:05. | :26:07. | |
Commission, out this week. The first report, you may remember, | :26:08. | :26:09. | |
happened under Mayor Boris Johnson. This one's gone further in what it's | :26:10. | :26:12. | |
asking for: retention of income tax, maybe a share of VAT, | :26:13. | :26:15. | |
as well as control of property taxes And it recommends looking | :26:16. | :26:18. | |
at new taxes like a London tourism The commission chair | :26:19. | :26:22. | |
is Tony Travers. What we're recommending that's | :26:23. | :26:26. | |
different this time is that in the spirit of further devolution, | :26:27. | :26:28. | |
which the Government itself has been talking about, | :26:29. | :26:30. | |
the possibility of greater health devolution, skills and further | :26:31. | :26:32. | |
education, possibly more transport devolution and so on, | :26:33. | :26:36. | |
that you could begin not only to devolve property | :26:37. | :26:38. | |
taxes fully to London, but go beyond that and take part | :26:39. | :26:43. | |
of income tax or VAT and assign part That wouldn't mean that | :26:44. | :26:47. | |
London set the tax rates, but they would keep part | :26:48. | :26:54. | |
of the yield that was generated here and could therefore drive up | :26:55. | :26:57. | |
the yield by pursuing particular economic policies that would make | :26:58. | :27:00. | |
the City grow faster and therefore, London's boroughs and | :27:01. | :27:02. | |
the mayor would keep more Chris Philp, an awful lot of detail | :27:03. | :27:20. | |
in there but in principle anything you hear in there you wouldn't go | :27:21. | :27:25. | |
and do, or do you guard against any of this stuff? I think the idea of | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
devolution to London is a good idea, the one idea I didn't hear in the | :27:30. | :27:33. | |
film was the idea of letting London keep some of its business rates or | :27:34. | :27:43. | |
keep... What about some of the other ones income tax, VAT, it is getting | :27:44. | :27:47. | |
a portion of it that is raised in London. I think the idea is to have | :27:48. | :27:50. | |
a starting point that is fiscally neutral, and of some of these taxes | :27:51. | :27:55. | |
grow, meaning the economy is growing, they generate more | :27:56. | :27:57. | |
receipts, London would keep that growth as an incentive to London to | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
help London grow. For me, business rates is the most sensible one | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
because it is directly linked to encouraging business. The Chancellor | :28:07. | :28:19. | |
has said that in the budget coming up this spring, he will be making a | :28:20. | :28:22. | |
financial devolution offer to London and the Mayor of London, and I would | :28:23. | :28:24. | |
certainly support that, particularly in this area of business rates. | :28:25. | :28:28. | |
Clive Efford comedy you sign up to London has taken a big hit as a | :28:29. | :28:32. | |
result of the Government's changes but I think this discussion is | :28:33. | :28:37. | |
overdue because, I mean I know it is becoming a cliche to say in this | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
post Brexit period, but London is a huge shop window for Britain, and | :28:42. | :28:47. | |
what this report is talking about is giving London the resources to | :28:48. | :28:52. | |
generate that economic activity that is so vital for the whole country, | :28:53. | :28:58. | |
and not cutting off the important redistribution of taxes from the | :28:59. | :29:03. | |
economic activity that is concentrated around London and the | :29:04. | :29:06. | |
south-east. That is an important thing and it gives London the | :29:07. | :29:10. | |
devolved power to be able to make those decisions that will drive that | :29:11. | :29:15. | |
forwards. What do you say about tourism tax though, it dangerous? It | :29:16. | :29:21. | |
has to be looked up, but I would be very careful about how we do it | :29:22. | :29:25. | |
because we already have a very high rate of VAT compared with our | :29:26. | :29:28. | |
European competitors, and what we want is more tourism to come here. I | :29:29. | :29:35. | |
would look at possibly the Government on areas like hospitality | :29:36. | :29:38. | |
and things like that, looking to be more competitive with their European | :29:39. | :29:43. | |
partners, for instance it is half the rate in France, and bring more | :29:44. | :29:49. | |
tourism in. To be clear from you, Chris, do you believe the Government | :29:50. | :29:53. | |
is committed to going anywhere near some of this stuff? Stamp duty, for | :29:54. | :29:58. | |
instance, you know how much is raised in the capital, why isn't a | :29:59. | :30:02. | |
lot more of that retained? The list we have seen in the report is a very | :30:03. | :30:07. | |
long list, there is a balance to strike so I think it's right London | :30:08. | :30:10. | |
gets more control of its tax base, so things like business rates make | :30:11. | :30:16. | |
sense. If you push it too far, as Clive was saying, you impede the | :30:17. | :30:18. | |
Government's ability to help out other parts of the country, which do | :30:19. | :30:23. | |
need help. It would also impede London and the vital infrastructure. | :30:24. | :30:32. | |
He has said he will do this. You have to strike a balance between | :30:33. | :30:37. | |
letting London keep a larger proportion of taxes raised here. | :30:38. | :30:41. | |
That is right. But at the same time, you have to give the government | :30:42. | :30:44. | |
financial firepower to look after the whole of the UK. As a London MP, | :30:45. | :30:48. | |
I do want to see the balance shift towards London and I am confident | :30:49. | :30:51. | |
that we will see that in spring budget. | :30:52. | :30:54. | |
Talking of money, the mayor's budget proposals for next year | :30:55. | :30:57. | |
are currently being pored over at City Hall. | :30:58. | :30:59. | |
And there's been more talk about whether Sadiq Khan | :31:00. | :31:01. | |
was as clear as he might have been when he promised to freeze fares. | :31:02. | :31:04. | |
It did not, as it turned out, mean keeping all fares down, | :31:05. | :31:07. | |
as those using trains and travelcards have found out. | :31:08. | :31:09. | |
Back when he was running for office last year, this | :31:10. | :31:14. | |
I've got a fully funded package to freeze fares... | :31:15. | :31:17. | |
Over four years, so Londoners won't pay a penny more... | :31:18. | :31:20. | |
But after winning the keys to City Hall, he clarified | :31:21. | :31:27. | |
that the freeze would only apply to single fares and not travelcards. | :31:28. | :31:32. | |
Travelcards cover all public transport in London, | :31:33. | :31:43. | |
including suburban rail services, which are run by private companies | :31:44. | :31:45. | |
The fares on those lines are set by the Government and this | :31:46. | :31:52. | |
So, the mayor says, it's out of his hands. | :31:53. | :31:55. | |
That, however, is not necessarily the impression that people got | :31:56. | :31:58. | |
For example, in an article about his fares freeze, | :31:59. | :32:02. | |
In fact, it now turns out that even | :32:03. | :32:15. | |
Transport for London had assumed that meant a freeze in travelcards. | :32:16. | :32:18. | |
Details emerged last week, when the MayorWatch blog got hold | :32:19. | :32:21. | |
of a briefing document written by TfL, detailing how they had built | :32:22. | :32:24. | |
a travelcard freeze into their costings of the policy. | :32:25. | :32:28. | |
People did not accidentally come away with the impression | :32:29. | :32:31. | |
that Sadiq was talking about freezing travelcards. | :32:32. | :32:34. | |
He wrote an article in the Evening Standard | :32:35. | :32:36. | |
where he cited the rising cost of travelcards, the sacrifices | :32:37. | :32:38. | |
people needed to make on their food bills, | :32:39. | :32:40. | |
their ability to feed their kids, the pressure caused | :32:41. | :32:42. | |
He raised it repeatedly, the cost of travelcards | :32:43. | :32:45. | |
and the impact it had on Londoners' income and disposable income. | :32:46. | :32:48. | |
He engineered a situation where people thought that the fares | :32:49. | :32:50. | |
freeze would encompass all transport fares in London, and it doesn't. | :32:51. | :32:55. | |
And he's pulled away from it saying he didn't have the power, | :32:56. | :32:58. | |
and this document proves that not only did he have the power | :32:59. | :33:01. | |
and the money, but even people at Transport for London, | :33:02. | :33:03. | |
who are being paid to monitor his manifesto, | :33:04. | :33:06. | |
thought that a freeze on travelcards was something he had in mind. | :33:07. | :33:09. | |
And the fact that TfL had put a figure on the cost of freezing | :33:10. | :33:12. | |
travelcards suggests to some that despite by what the mayor says, | :33:13. | :33:16. | |
He could make that decision and choose to use his | :33:17. | :33:22. | |
transport funding to freeze or fares for Londoners. | :33:23. | :33:24. | |
He was given advice on how much it would cost and how | :33:25. | :33:31. | |
Questions have also been asked about a policy | :33:32. | :33:34. | |
that appears on Sadiq.London, Mr Khan's website from when he was | :33:35. | :33:38. | |
campaigning for office. It clearly says that bus fares would not be | :33:39. | :33:41. | |
frozen in his first year in office, but cut, and that hasn't happened. | :33:42. | :33:49. | |
In fact, that's not in the manifesto. | :33:50. | :33:50. | |
I think that was in a sort of discussion paper | :33:51. | :33:53. | |
When the mayor finally published his manifesto, | :33:54. | :33:56. | |
it was very clear about freezing fares and going for a hopper ticket. | :33:57. | :34:01. | |
The front page of the City Hall website clearly states | :34:02. | :34:04. | |
that the mayor is freezing fares in 2017, and then gives | :34:05. | :34:06. | |
details about exactly how it's going to apply. | :34:07. | :34:09. | |
But it won't stop some arguing that there should have been this | :34:10. | :34:12. | |
Do you think he should have been clearer, Clive? Let's be clear. He | :34:13. | :34:28. | |
has frozen the fares for every feather which he receives the fare | :34:29. | :34:32. | |
box. So all the fares he has control over, he has frozen in line with his | :34:33. | :34:36. | |
promise. But he should have been clear that it is all fares. Even | :34:37. | :34:43. | |
with travelcards, when he said about people struggling to say, he then | :34:44. | :34:50. | |
didn't say we are going to freeze them. The challenge here is for the | :34:51. | :34:55. | |
Government, who control the rail fares, to take the lead from the | :34:56. | :34:58. | |
Mayor of London and freeze the fares. We are getting an appalling | :34:59. | :35:04. | |
service. Don't forget, the Conservative mayoral candidate went | :35:05. | :35:07. | |
into the mayoral election saying they were going to put London's | :35:08. | :35:12. | |
fares up by 70%. But should the Labour candidate have been clear | :35:13. | :35:17. | |
that he was only going to put up TfL fares? He can only put up the fares | :35:18. | :35:22. | |
for which he has the powers of control. But Transport for London | :35:23. | :35:26. | |
had the impression that he meant all fares as well. The figure that has | :35:27. | :35:32. | |
been quoted is the figure that it would have cost TfL, had the | :35:33. | :35:35. | |
Government frozen fares in line with the Mayor's freeze on fares. That is | :35:36. | :35:40. | |
the 600 million figure that is being bandied around. So it is a bit | :35:41. | :35:43. | |
dishonest to suggest that that figure would cover the cost of | :35:44. | :35:45. | |
subsidising fares of private rail providers. Those be clear. Sadiq | :35:46. | :35:52. | |
Khan grossly misled Londoners. What he said during the mayoral election | :35:53. | :35:56. | |
campaign, he said, no ifs, no buts, no one will pay a penny more. | :35:57. | :36:01. | |
Nothing about travelcards or single fares. No one will pay a penny more | :36:02. | :36:05. | |
is what he said. It is not true. But he has gone on after the mayoral | :36:06. | :36:09. | |
election, where he is trying to excuse what he has done. He claimed | :36:10. | :36:12. | |
he didn't have the power over these other fares. He claimed it was | :36:13. | :36:13. | |
outside of his power to do a complete their freeze. | :36:14. | :36:31. | |
He has also made it clear since then that he knows that theoretically, he | :36:32. | :36:33. | |
could pay. Why didn't you point this out before the election? We all | :36:34. | :36:36. | |
pointed out that what he was promising was undeliverable, and he | :36:37. | :36:38. | |
got into a strap about it. For what reason? For financial reasons. He | :36:39. | :36:41. | |
said after the election that he didn't have the power to do a | :36:42. | :36:43. | |
complete freeze. This request by London travel watch shows that TfL | :36:44. | :36:47. | |
gave him advice that it was possible. It shows it can be done, | :36:48. | :36:51. | |
because it was done with the help of government money which froze the | :36:52. | :36:56. | |
rail element the previous year. He couldn't assume that that element is | :36:57. | :37:01. | |
going to be there, could he? If he had chosen to, he could have used | :37:02. | :37:05. | |
City Hall money to have a complete their freeze. That is what the TfL | :37:06. | :37:09. | |
paper advised him he could do. He chose not to do with that. He chose | :37:10. | :37:15. | |
not to keep his promise and tried to cover it up by claiming it was | :37:16. | :37:19. | |
impossible. Was he being disingenuous or was he ignorant when | :37:20. | :37:24. | |
he covered it up? I can't speak for whether he was ignorant on it, but | :37:25. | :37:27. | |
it is evident that when you make a promise about freezing fares, you | :37:28. | :37:31. | |
can only freeze those over which you have control. The increase on rail | :37:32. | :37:35. | |
cards is a government decision. It is for the Government to follow the | :37:36. | :37:38. | |
lead of the London mayor and freeze fares. The overground service is | :37:39. | :37:49. | |
part of TfL and it is frozen. If the Government were to hand over the | :37:50. | :37:52. | |
franchises of suburban rail to Mayor Khan, those fares would be frozen. | :37:53. | :38:01. | |
So you go and bring your friend. Sadiq Khan has now accepted he could | :38:02. | :38:05. | |
have frozen these fares if he had chosen to spend City Hall money on | :38:06. | :38:07. | |
it. He chose to break his promise. Now it's time for the rest | :38:08. | :38:09. | |
of the political news in 60 seconds. The cost of West Ham's London | :38:10. | :38:20. | |
stadium, almost entirely paid for by the taxpayer, | :38:21. | :38:23. | |
is to be investigated by City Hall. Mayor Sadiq Khan said "We need | :38:24. | :38:25. | |
to find out how on earth the transformation costs | :38:26. | :38:28. | |
were allowed to skyrocket, whether appropriate checks were made | :38:29. | :38:30. | |
before key decisions were made." The cost of the building has already | :38:31. | :38:32. | |
reached more than ?753 million. Staying with football, | :38:33. | :38:39. | |
and Lewisham Council has abandoned the controversial compulsory | :38:40. | :38:41. | |
purchase of land around Millwall FC had argued | :38:42. | :38:43. | |
the development could Lewisham Council said, | :38:44. | :38:48. | |
"Any decision that the council may take in the future will be | :38:49. | :38:52. | |
a wholly new decision." A very high air pollution warning | :38:53. | :38:58. | |
has been issued for London for the first time under | :38:59. | :39:02. | |
a new alert system. Warnings are being issued | :39:03. | :39:05. | |
at bus stops, roadside signs and tube stations, | :39:06. | :39:07. | |
under the new system set up Millwall season-ticket holder. But | :39:08. | :39:26. | |
we are not going to talk about that. Air pollution, very high alerts. | :39:27. | :39:31. | |
What difference will this make? It will draw public attention to the | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
problem we have, 9500 premature deaths a year due to air pollution. | :39:37. | :39:41. | |
So this is an important issue. We have got to review things like | :39:42. | :39:43. | |
decisions over future road-building and said, is this going to make air | :39:44. | :39:49. | |
quality worse and if it is, we have to rethink the decision. It is an | :39:50. | :39:55. | |
issue that is going. Just telling us that it is high, does that serve a | :39:56. | :40:00. | |
purpose? I agree that it is a problem. My wife is asthma -- | :40:01. | :40:07. | |
asthmatic and I have three-year-old twins. Governments of both colours | :40:08. | :40:10. | |
have encouraged diesel cars over the years via the tax system. That has | :40:11. | :40:14. | |
been catastrophic for the country and for London, so we need action to | :40:15. | :40:18. | |
get those diesel cars off our roads. Would you support that? We do need | :40:19. | :40:24. | |
to review the use of diesel vehicles and yes, we need to prioritise | :40:25. | :40:31. | |
air-pollution. Thank you for being here. | :40:32. | :40:38. | |
Welcome back and let's get back to Donald Trump's travel ban | :40:39. | :40:42. | |
on refugees and citizens from seven mainly Muslim countries. | :40:43. | :40:47. | |
Earlier, the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, told ITV that a state | :40:48. | :40:51. | |
visit by President Trump to the UK should not go ahead | :40:52. | :40:53. | |
I think it would be totally wrong for him to be coming here while that | :40:54. | :41:06. | |
situation is going on. He has to be challenged on this. So until the ban | :41:07. | :41:10. | |
is lifted, you don't think he should come? I am not happy about him | :41:11. | :41:15. | |
coming here until the ban is lifted. Look at what is happening with those | :41:16. | :41:20. | |
countries. What will be the long term effect of this on the rest of | :41:21. | :41:25. | |
the world? Is this state visit going to become a matter of huge political | :41:26. | :41:30. | |
debate in this country? It would be anyway, but it is a temporary ban, | :41:31. | :41:34. | |
so Jeremy Corbyn is on safe territory. It will be over by April | :41:35. | :41:38. | |
and he is not due to come until summer. But there are three bands. | :41:39. | :41:43. | |
There is the 90 day ban on people coming from the southern countries. | :41:44. | :41:48. | |
There is the 120 day ban on refugees from anywhere in the world, and | :41:49. | :41:52. | |
there is the indefinite ban on Syrian refugees. So there may still | :41:53. | :41:57. | |
be some bans in place. But bear in mind the number of Syrian refugees | :41:58. | :42:02. | |
and refugees from around the world that President Obama took over his | :42:03. | :42:05. | |
eight years. There were years when it was not even up to 50 Syrian | :42:06. | :42:09. | |
refugees that were taken since the civil war has started. This is an | :42:10. | :42:15. | |
ongoing American policy. 12,500 Syrian refugees have come in the | :42:16. | :42:21. | |
last year. Before that, it was a hundred and sometimes under 50. But | :42:22. | :42:29. | |
they are reasonable numbers now, although not something America | :42:30. | :42:32. | |
couldn't absorb. Donald Trump is discovering that being a president | :42:33. | :42:38. | |
is different from being a business man. And Jeremy Corbyn has to learn | :42:39. | :42:42. | |
the art of leadership, having been a backbench MP, and has struggled to | :42:43. | :42:46. | |
do it, as we are about to discuss with article 50. With this, you have | :42:47. | :42:50. | |
to dramatise the politics of this, and this is what he has done with | :42:51. | :42:55. | |
that statement. Most controversial ever state visit now? I would | :42:56. | :43:00. | |
imagine so. Even regardless of any opposition from the opposition to | :43:01. | :43:05. | |
trump's physical presence in the streets, the presence of | :43:06. | :43:10. | |
demonstrators will be an international new story. If trump's | :43:11. | :43:13. | |
demands for the details of the visit are quite as extreme and as picky as | :43:14. | :43:17. | |
some of the Sunday papers have suggested, that could also be the | :43:18. | :43:21. | |
source of controversy. What do you have in mind? Isn't he anxious that | :43:22. | :43:26. | |
only certain members of the Royal Family turn up? He doesn't want a | :43:27. | :43:30. | |
one-on-one with Prince Charles. Who would, though! Some people may be | :43:31. | :43:38. | |
sympathetic on that. It is the one subject where he is in line with | :43:39. | :43:42. | |
British opinion. Playing golf in front of the Queen may be a higher | :43:43. | :43:48. | |
priority. We have to be realistic. Given the other people from around | :43:49. | :43:50. | |
the world that the Queen has played host to, like the Chinese president | :43:51. | :43:54. | |
and Saudi kings and the like, we have had a lot worse come to visit | :43:55. | :43:59. | |
than Donald Trump. Brexit - how serious our neighbour's problems on | :44:00. | :44:05. | |
this? Very serious, but they often are with Europe. Labour were splits | :44:06. | :44:09. | |
when we joined in the 70s, and still won general elections, in 1974 and | :44:10. | :44:14. | |
1975. There were all over the place in terms of the single currency. | :44:15. | :44:18. | |
Blair said one thing one day and the opposite the next day. Brown did the | :44:19. | :44:19. | |
same. Brown usually set the opposite of | :44:20. | :44:33. | |
what Blair said! They won landslide because they have the political | :44:34. | :44:37. | |
skills to put all of the pressure on the major government, even though | :44:38. | :44:39. | |
their position on the single currency was the same as major's. It | :44:40. | :44:44. | |
is about with Europe the art of leadership. You have to be a | :44:45. | :44:50. | |
political conjuror, you have to dissemble authoritative leak when | :44:51. | :44:54. | |
you lead a divided party over Europe, and Jeremy Corbyn to his | :44:55. | :44:57. | |
personal credit cannot dissemble, but he's not an individual person on | :44:58. | :45:03. | |
this. He's leading a split party in danger of falling apart, and you | :45:04. | :45:08. | |
need the skills of a political conjurer. Clearly self-evidently | :45:09. | :45:13. | |
he's not displaying it because we are talking about the chaotic split | :45:14. | :45:16. | |
which will manifest itself in that vote on Article 50. Labour and the | :45:17. | :45:20. | |
SNP and the Lib Dems too I would have thought will all put amendments | :45:21. | :45:25. | |
down to the short Article 50 piece of legislation. Do they have any | :45:26. | :45:31. | |
chance of succeeding? No substantial world is changing amendments. I | :45:32. | :45:35. | |
don't think Theresa May has much to worry about actually. I think if | :45:36. | :45:40. | |
anything the reason she's pushed the legal appeal is that it helps her to | :45:41. | :45:44. | |
have a big chunk of the media and a big chunk of public opinion worrying | :45:45. | :45:48. | |
that the popular will of last year is in danger of being overturned and | :45:49. | :45:53. | |
so even if it was a completely hopeless legal appeal, it generated | :45:54. | :45:59. | |
headlines for a week that as an incumbent Prime Minister trying to | :46:00. | :46:02. | |
execute believe vote suits you politically. I think it is a much | :46:03. | :46:06. | |
bigger problem for Labour, we've already seen some Shadow Cabinet | :46:07. | :46:10. | |
issues in the previous week. You have got to remember it's not just a | :46:11. | :46:14. | |
majority of Labour MPs that want to stay in the European Union, but a | :46:15. | :46:21. | |
majority of Labour constituencies, and a majority of labour macro | :46:22. | :46:24. | |
voters wanted to stay as well so we have three lines of division. One | :46:25. | :46:29. | |
amendment that might get through if it was called, and it is in the | :46:30. | :46:32. | |
hands of the Deputy speaker who will be chairing these debates, and that | :46:33. | :46:37. | |
will be an amendment that said regardless of how the Europeans | :46:38. | :46:41. | |
treat our citizens in Europe, all EU citizens here will be afforded full | :46:42. | :46:46. | |
rights to remain. That might get through. It may indeed and lots of | :46:47. | :46:54. | |
backbench MPs would backpack. We all know there will not be mass | :46:55. | :46:59. | |
deportations, it is not legal, it won't happen, it is simply a | :47:00. | :47:03. | |
negotiating tactic. I agree with those who say you shouldn't be using | :47:04. | :47:07. | |
people as a negotiating tactic, but the reality as it is the EU leaders | :47:08. | :47:12. | |
that are doing that because it's already been offered. The remain as | :47:13. | :47:16. | |
should be attacking the EU governments for not offering that in | :47:17. | :47:21. | |
return. Article 50 is the easy bit for her. I agree with other members | :47:22. | :47:25. | |
of the panel that she will get it through and the court case almost | :47:26. | :47:29. | |
helps her by getting an easy journey through Parliament, then it gets | :47:30. | :47:33. | |
really difficult. All of this has been a preamble and once she begins | :47:34. | :47:38. | |
that nightmarish negotiation, there will be opportunities for a smart | :47:39. | :47:43. | |
opposition to make quite a lot of the turmoil to come. Whether Labour | :47:44. | :47:50. | |
are capable of that, let's wait and see. The divisions in Labour are | :47:51. | :47:56. | |
nightmarish for them but by no means unprecedented. Arguably it was much | :47:57. | :48:00. | |
more complicated in the early 1970s when you had Titans on either side, | :48:01. | :48:05. | |
big ex-cabinet ministers... Tony Benn... Michael Foot, they were all | :48:06. | :48:14. | |
at it. The fundamental issue of in or out, and they won two elections, | :48:15. | :48:19. | |
so you have got to be really clever. But also how money more Labour MPs | :48:20. | :48:25. | |
will resign. We shall find out this week. | :48:26. | :48:27. | |
The Daily Politics is back tomorrow at midday and all | :48:28. | :48:30. | |
I'll be back here on BBC one next week. | :48:31. | :48:34. | |
Remember - if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :48:35. | :49:07. | |
a free five-a-side tournament that's for everyone. | :49:08. | :49:22. | |
For more information, go to the Get Inspired website. | :49:23. | :49:26. |