25/03/2012 Sunday Politics North East and Cumbria

In the North East and Cumbria: Battle lines are drawn over local

pay. Should civil servants, teachers and nurses in the north be

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1833 seconds

paid less than those elsewhere in A very warm welcome to this part of

the show. Coming up: the government says we need more skills like this

to help our economy. Why are they downgrading the course that these

teenagers are studying? Will talk about that, and the content of the

Budget. My guests are Bridget Phillipson and Jeremy Middleton.

Will start a public sector pay, some people in the North East to be

paid less for doing the same jobs and people in the other parts of

the UK. The Treasury set out the case for making public sector pay

more responsive to local markets. They say that public sector pay

pays more than necessary, making it hard for private sector employers.

They are called postcode pay-cuts. This business faces the challenge a

public sector employees getting paid more than they can afford to

pay. It is not just in relation to the hourly rate of pay, it is

flexible working, working practices. In the North East, public sector

salaries are 11% higher than those in the private sector. Women's pay

is over 18% higher. I have a fear that we are looking at a two-tier

country, with the North East very firmly in the bottom tear. We don't

wish to be known as a low-cost economy, certainly not a low-pay

economy. We need to pay competitive rates to attract the best talent

into North East. Some business leaders are worried,

but there is probably more nail- biting end there. There are 25,000

civil servants across the North East. Local MPs said be cautious

over local pay. It is going to take some time to try and implement. I

think the dust is far from settled on this issue. The Chancellor

pointedly kept Allied the point of local pay. But who wants it?

I can tell you he doesn't, B PCS union. -- The PCS union. Kevin

McHugh has joined money to discuss this. Each department has its own

rate of pay. Someone in Longbenton get paid at the same grade As

someone in Cardiff or Luton. We think this postal Descartes is a

moral -- postcode pay-cuts is immoral. Would you agree that if

you private sector company is trying to compete, it is hard to

find people to fill those jobs? think that some low-grade that is

true, but middle managers get paid more than in the civil service. It

is a bit of a myth. You're saying that those figures are wrong?

think they are slightly skewed. We have millions of people who one

employee at the moment, and in this region we have people queuing up

for every job. 7% of the Civil Service get paid less than �15,000

a year. When not talking great sums of money. If this goes ahead, how

strongly we commanders fight? Would they strike? I think they would.

The Civil Service has just had two years of a pay freeze, and again to

get a 1% cap in the next two years. George Osborne is saying that he

wants to give us less than people in the south. He's not saying that

an MP Newcastle will get less than Labour MP in Luton. That is

nonsense. What case is there for this? The government has announced

that they will be a review. They have said that departments can go

ahead with this. They have gone a little further. It all depends how

it will be implemented. I don't envisage they will be any pay cut

in the public sector. If they came in a tour, it would be bigger

increases in some parts of the country. I don't think it would be

universal. It won't be applied to doctors, teachers, nurses, people

who are not fundamentally mobile. They could be applied in some areas

of the Civil Service. It is only right that we look at some

potential benefits of that. For example, if it becomes cheaper to

run civil service operations in the North East, for example, as opposed

to London, then that would make a more attractive case for bringing

more people here. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing the Treasury

being relocated here. Bridget Phillipson, this is the key, it

might have made the North East more competitive? I think this will have

a devastating impact on the North East economy. It will increase the

divide between the north and south, and entrench those problems. I

think if you had a police officer and a paramedic doing a job in

Sunderland, they should receive the same level of pay as someone in

Southampton. If you're doing the same job, you should be paid the

same wage. It will suck demand out to the private sector in the North

East. These public servants spend money here. You have introduced

local pay rates in the Court Service when you ring government?

Bows were very different circumstances. -- of those were

very different circumstances. were pay increases in some parts of

the country, but not the North East? In the North East, you have

10 a jobseeker's chasing every job. There is not a lack of people who

are wanting employment. The private sector can take their pick of the

candidates. There is no evidence about this theory that having

higher public sector wages stopping the private sector from expanding?

I was talking to a businessman, he was talking about the wages that he

pays. I think we need to keep a reasonably open mind, until we can

see what the benefits could be. It could mean attracting more jobs

here, and there could be benefits of the private sector in attracting

some of the very best talent. I would like to understand what those

benefits could be. Thanks for a much for now.

There were a few other nuggets for the North in the Budget. Newcastle

become a super connected city, with ultra-fast broadband. There will be

local enterprise partnerships in the North East, and an increase in

personal allowances should lift 32,000 people out of tax altogether.

The fiscal measures to benefit a small, because of the lower pay

here. -- to benefit are more. think it is absolutely

extraordinary. They are letting it ordinary working people out of the

tax system. I would prefer to see a cut in VAT, putting money back in

the pockets of people. I would have preferred to see some investment in

manufacturing firms. We have a real challenge in the North East, and I

think it is a real problem, that people are being hit hard, there is

a squeeze on living standards, VAT has risen, tax, the government has

made deny a logical choice -- has made an ideological choice. This

was pretty thin pickings for the North East. No major infrastructure

investment, that must be disappointing? I think you are

right. The big change was taking people out of the tax net. We

benefited more than people in any other region. It was all paid for

by the increase in stamp duty. Less than 1% of houses over 2 million

are sold in this region. We wanted to see some structural investment,

none of that? They have been a whole series of measures coming

through, whether it be be regional growth fund, or the enterprise

zones, the government does want more investment. They have an extra

�1 billion for the regional growth fund. We have to secured that

funding, and invested. There are funds available. The government is

trying to make it a good place to do business. They have cut business

taxes, is that not a good move? wanted to see them are delivering

on jobs and growth. I wanted to see a fair Budget, it is unfair if

where pensioners are having to pay for a tax break for the richest.

what more could have been done? would have liked to see more

investment in manufacturing. We were pressing for a repeat in the

bank's tax. We have a real crisis hearing the North East, and the

government is not taking the action necessary. You stand accused of

doing very little? That is completely untrue. We are reducing

the deficit, keeping exchange rates low. That is why the private sector

is doing well. We have the only region which has a surplus.

Staying with the economy, the gunmen once more young people to

consider a career in Engineering. There are vocational courses which

allow them to study them at school, that is not necessarily the case

though. Getting under the bonnet of a

sports car. It is every teenager's dream. At this Teesside school it

also part of the curriculum. It is a fantastic opportunity to get them

involved in engineering. We Abri in other subject areas, maths, I T.

You get to see what engineering would be like in a real working

environment. We have built this car. We have been to France to do civil

engineering. That makes a practical and academic has made the

engineering diploma popular with employers as well as schools. These

are likely to be some of the last students to study its, that because

the government plans to cut the qualification's value from seven

GCSEs to one. These are our very best students. We will be limiting

them a massively, if they get downgraded. The students could come

out with a handful of GCSEs in the right subject areas would be

limited, it would be an injustice to take them out. Looking ahead,

that would be bad for the economy as well as young people. Business

and young people will lose the opportunity to catch these young

people at the point when they are most enthusiastic in their lives.

That point when they are at 16, wanting to make those decisions,

whether to move on to a Modern Apprenticeship, or a level courses

that are engineering based. This course is highly rated by pupils

and teachers, but there have been criticism of other vocational

qualifications available. There is a sense that the system is ripe for

reform. The government is drastically reducing the number a

subject. A former headteacher agrees there had been too many soft

options. Personal beauty care, horse care, aspects of engineering

which were of value. We need to get back to the basics of education,

get children properly educated to a high standard up to 16, and then

allow variety and depth in other ways after that. Even if a shake-up

is necessary, some question whether engineering was the right target.

Supporters of the Diploma include Rolls-Royce and JCB. This

engineering firm worries that any change will mean less recruits

coming through the ranks. We cannot attract people into engineering,

and one of the benefits is to get young people educated into thinking

that engineering is a good career choice. If we don't inspire the

next generation to make as well as study things, the price could be

paid not just in the classroom, but here on the factory floor.

Bridget Phillipson, whatever the merits, the will -- the real issue

was that schools were using these causes to inflate their results?

This engineering diploma was the -- was developed with businesses, so I

don't understand why the government feels the need to back down. Firms

such as Siemens and JCB were involved in developing its. I want

to see the government investing in vocational education. It is not a

dogmatic return to blazers and a style of education that no longer

exists. We want good jobs, building on the success of vital engineering

firms in the region. This Diploma sends a funny signal out.

Engineering say they want this course? It is vital. A message is

that if you want a job, and you want a good job, the best chance of

getting it is in engineering. does this pass the message on?

There is a complete commitment to that. The important background to

all of this is the report that said under the last administration,

there was a collapse in core skills. Maths, English, science. Why did

that happen? There was a massive reduction in those core skills. The

vast majority of those people were not being educated to a standard in

which they could get higher education, that had to change.

Let's do some maths, the school says this course takes a three

times as long to teach, it's only worth one GCSE, so they went

teacher? -- they won't teach it? is not been taken away. There are

only 4% other vocational such beds which are recognised -- 4% of a

vocational subject which are recognised. The government is

creating a lot of apprenticeships, and trying to utilise skills?

possible to support a traditional academic subject. -- support

traditional academic subject. It is important that the government does

not throw out anything that which is not traditional -- which is not

traditional. Thank you very much. The Chancellor to have just under

one hour to deliver his Budget. Our own Billy Whizz, Mark Denten, has

done the whole thing in 60 seconds. Almost 10,000 jobs will be cut by

local councils and the North East. The biggest cuts will be made in

Durham, Newcastle and Hillsborough. The Archbishop of York has been

hotly tipped to be the next Archbishop of Canterbury. He has

played down speculation. There has been a call for help for the

pharmaceutical industry. There has been a loss of 450 jobs. I want to

make use of the North East's potential. I want to keep that

manufacturing centre opened. I would like the government to assist

in the recovery of this centre. Opponents of the government's

changes to the NHS held a candlelight vigil in Newcastle. The

plans were approved by MPs. Finally, pies, pates and sausage rolls will

be more expensive in October because there VAT. It got a less

than warm response from the customers are great. -- all but