11/11/2012 Sunday Politics North East and Cumbria

A big increase in size and a new name for the Territorial Army, but

can it really plug the gaps left by a government cuts in the regular

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2142 seconds

The warmest of welcomes to your local part of the show. Coming up,

is the government right to use the expanded Territorial Army to fill

gaps left by cuts to the regular armed forces? Joining me to talk

about that and the rest of the week's news,... Stephen Hughes,

let's talk about the Bishop of Durham becoming the head of the

Church of England. What do you make of it? I'm pleased that he's been

elevated in that way. It is a pity he wasn't around a bit longer. I

was very impressed by his grasp of the problems facing young people in

the area. He has got the ability that will allow him to form --

perform extremely well at a national level. The new Archbishop

of Canterbury, it poses quite a challenge for the Prime Minister.

He's been outspoken on poverty -- and the economy. It is wonderful

what he has done so far. I have seen him up with the Banking

Commission and he said a lot of things I would like to hear more.

It is wonderful that we have a genuine theologian going down from

the North East the Westminster. is also an opponent of gay marriage.

Another potential clash with the Prime Minister. Her we will see

what happens when that pans out. Not worried about it? No. OK. Let's

move on to another subject and verb government is to expand a

Territorial Army. It will be doubled in size. With a cut of

20,000 personnel planned in the regular army, can those TA

reservists really fill the gap? I want you to look at the board and

copied down... He Eton Manor School, Newcastle, and in front of class,

Mr Parker. I and the schools inclusion manager, but I have

another responsibility which includes managing the dinner duties.

I am at the liaison officer as well. But Mr Parker is also known as

something else, a major part of. For 90 days a year he serves as a

Territorial Army officer. Today he is in charge of the school's own

cadet force Remembrance Day parade, but he has served with the

Territorial Army all over the world. I've served in Northern Ireland as

an infantry soldier and in 2004 I was deployed to Iraq. In 2009 by

deployed to Afghanistan. The Territorial Army and the army as a

whole, they give you values and standards. If you display those in

schools as well, at the pupils respond well. By and large they

treat you with the same kind of values. In the future Major

Parker's Odette might have more chance of combining a military

career with real guns and an outside job. The government wants

to double the Territorial Army's size. Employers will be given more

idea when staff are needed. At the moment the end of this can be

called up -- caught up adjust a fortnight's notice. What it brings

to us is not easily replicated by the members of staff. Sometimes we

have fat to buy in to replace. We tolerate it and I think we probably

wish he did not have to go off sometimes, but that is the nature

of the beast. One more Remembrance Day when we

paid tribute to the armed forces past, but what will they look like

in the future? The expansion of the TA comes at a

sensitive time. Cuts to the regular army have angered many people. In

this time when money is tight, what is wrong with recruiting more

people like Major Parker, giving them extra training and making them

a key part of the armed forces? Don't get me wrong, I'm a great

supporter of the Territorial Army, I spent many years in the

Territorial Army. It is fantastic. However we have to look at the

Territorial Army as it is now. Basically, it is in a dire

situation. The Territorial Army was piecemeal destroyed in 1999. It has

not recovered since. Car aren't the government saying what they are

going to do? They will improve the training and make them fit for

purpose. Let's look at that. That I will take an example of a local the

Territorial Army unit. There establishment is 100 men. Their

current strength is 54. They have had five recruits through the door

since January this year. Of which two have already departed. The

Territorial Army are haemorrhaging personnel. If this plan goes ahead

and we start recruiting or relying more heavily on the TA, there's a

problem because we will have to make sure there's no overlap

between the regular army getting disbanded for the TA taking over.

Is it just numbers that concern you or are you worried that reservists

will never be able to do the job a regular service -- soldier?

Reservists can do the job very well. It they get the numbers right, that

will be OK? That is the million dollar question, can they get the

numbers? From what I'm hearing, and I speak to territorial officers on

a regular basis, that will be at a tall order. Thank you.

I suppose the allegation is this an attempt to devise a policy on the

cheap. As we changed the way in which we have an army going forward,

as we withdraw from Afghanistan, and as this comes in over a number

of years, with �1.8 billion that the government will commit to it,

you will basically have a territorial reserve, now known as

the Army Reserve, who will be better equipped, better funded, but

a lead and more effective as a fighting force. It won't mean

anything if you can't get the recruits. They have recruited a

local man from Northumberland who will lead the campaign to do that

recruitment. He commanded the forces in Iraq. This smacks of

other government problems. You think of a policy and actually it

takes a lot of catch-up to get to the position you are in. We cut the

regular forces, but there won't be these reservists in place to

replace them. We are not cutting the regular forces now. We are

planning for a long time in the future. None of this happens until

after 2015. Is this a sensible thing? The kind of thing happening

across European countries? It is happening across Europe. It's

estimated that between 2007 and 2014, we will see a 30 doesn't cut

back in defence spending across the European Union. -- 30% cutback.

America is not happy about that. There's another issue. Disbanding

the second Fusiliers is a mistake. If we are bothered about recruiting

reservists, we should also be bothered about recruiting regular

soldiers. The second Fusiliers have been good at that. If they are

disbanded and the forces from the second Fusiliers disburse to less

able regiments elsewhere, we may have a problem as Turk -- in terms

of regular recruits. Have a problem is that you will be expecting

employers to rip least people for longer periods. That will hit

businesses. You heard the concern about the inconvenience. I accept

there's a concern, but the present situation was made very clear in

your film. There's a 14 day lean time. You can be called up within

14 days. The way we will do it in the future is this will be planned

a long time in advance so you will be told of the best part of a year

or 18 months in advance. It is still an extra costs for employers,

an extra burden. High I don't think it is a burden provided it is well

planned and well executed. Shouldn't any responsible employer

be welcoming staff been involved in the TA? Are I think so. The vast

majority do. That teacher said it creates difficulties, but they are

right behind that reservist and that will be generally the case.

Look at the low ball -- local representatives. Councillors are

released from their jobs. This happens in a number of areas of

life. I want to know whether you are reassured by what you're

hearing. Not in the slightest. To get the Territorial Army back to

where it was in 1999 will probably take over 10 years. This time

period goes out of the window. With a corner, it is all very well

saying they will have a year before they are called up, but what

happens if we are faced with a situation such as Iran that could

block any moment and we needed deploy troops very, very rapidly?

We will not be able to do that in future. He is knocking down some of

your argument. I don't accept that we are going to be fighting ten-

year wars in places like Afghanistan and Iraq in the future.

There's no appetite in this country at the present time or going for it

for long ground wars as has been fought in the past. You look at the

example of Libya, not a single British soldier was on the ground

in Libya. Thank you. He could with the police commissioner elections

days away, there's been plenty of debate about how best to tackle

crime and one obvious way is to stop those break the law from doing

it again. It is not that easy. In Cumbria

almost half of the people who go to prison for short sentences reoffend

within 12 months. That is a higher figure than in big cities like

There's quite a good selection. years ago Stephen was sent to

Durham prison for stealing alcohol weeks after being policed. He went

on to refer the end again. His story is not unusual. Almost half

the people in Cumbria given short prison sentences go on to break the

law again. They gave us a train ticket to get me back home to

Carlisle. I had �40 in my pocket and that was it. Get out and get on

with it. Very little support. I could not find work. I got

depressed about it and I slipped back into my old ways. Stephen now

gets that support from a small charity in Carlisle. It works with

addicts who often haven't had help to beat their addictions during

that short time in prison. They come back to their old friends and

their old associations. If they've had drug or alcohol problems in the

past, to move on from that, you need support. Her Cumbria might be

the most sparsely populated area in the country, but when it comes to

reoffending rates in the north-west, it is top of the list. The latest

figures show just over 46% of Cumbrians given short sentences

went on to reoffend within a year of release. That is compared to 38%

in Merseyside and just over 36% in Greater Manchester. Unlike its more

urban neighbours, Cumbria lacks support services to bridge the gap

between prison and life back on civvy street. The population is so

desperately connected. We also need to get some additional results.

That will not be easy. It is also fair to say that we need to try to

create a better voluntary ethos, to get more volunteers involved to

help a real social problem. Ministry of Justice says it is

tackling the shamefully high reoffending rates by introducing a

rehabilitation revolution, but not everyone is convinced that

rehabilitation is the key to tackling reoffending. The public

perception is that prison just is not a deterrent. If we are going to

get offenders turning their lives around and being open to

rehabilitation, the stick has to be a punishment in prison. Not all

offenders are given prison sentences. Some are given community

sentences and those have a much lower rate of reoffending. But

still, more than a third go on to commit further crimes. As well as

people serving community sentences, Cumbria probation Trust plays a

central role in rehabilitating Cumbria's serious prolific

offenders, but it has no mandate of money to support people who have

been in prison for 12 months or less. So statutory agencies are not

funded to address that part of the population. Until something changes

around that, there's going to be difficulties in having resources

available to deal with those offenders. It is well known that

that -- that short sentences are not working and people need some

level of intervention. He the government is reviewing probation

services but it remain so to be seen whether it will help clear-up

Cumbria's reoffending challenges. The position is no better in the

North East. In Durham and Tees Valley, 47 out of every 100 people

sent to prison for less than a year end up reoffending within 12 months

of getting out. You've written a book about the changes you would

like to see in the prison system. What can we do to lower this

depressing rate of reoffending? Prison does work. It is a very good

punishment. But what I would like to see focus upon is what you do

with the prisoner inside. For far too long, incarceration involved 23

hours in a cell doing nothing. 50% of all prisoners can't read or

write. 50% of all prisoners were excluded as children. These people

are struggling, when they come out of prison, to get a job. Your

ability to change the way they behave have to be changed in the

prison itself. If you change that, you changed everything. At the

moment we have 70% reoffending. That is there were four statistic.

You need to have literacy, drug treatment and skills. If you get

those, you will change people. we got the balance wrong between

punishment and rehabilitation? don't think we have. If you look at

the example on the continent, particularly the Nordic countries

within the EU, the number of prisoners by 100,000 of the

population is half what it is here. In their prisons, for the emphasis

is not upon retribution, it is upon rehabilitation. It is on family

visits, training, education, anger management courses, outreach

courses to employers. These are the sorts of things... Usually half the

prison officers in male prisons in countries like Denmark are women.

The emphasis is on normalisation, trying to create a normal

environment for the prisoners. problem with the arguments you've

put his that you get that argument from the Police Federation, but the

public see military courses helping prisoners get qualifications as a

bit of a pampered life and not as a punishment. I don't have any

problem with sending people to prison. Both of us would agree that

if you have committed an offence, present is the right place for you.

Everybody agrees with that, but it is what you do with them in prison.

Either you have them locked up and doing nothing so they will not

change their behaviour. If they can't read or write, they will not

be able to get a job. If they are drug-addicted, of course they will

come out and commit offences. If they have no skills, how can you

ask them to get a job? Per that sounds great, but the reality

appears to be that some of the funding for these rehabilitation

programmes is being cut. Not in the slightest. Doncaster present is a

very successful payment by results present set up under that previous

government and expanded by this government. You have people turning

people around. The payment that the individual prison receives is

increased if they turn the person around and they don't reoffend.

government is looking to pay by results and cut reoffending and

bringing private companies in. Sensible? I've got no fundamental

objection to that. I am concerned about the regime's in the prisons.

Is the emphasis on rehabilitation, normalisation? If it is only about

punishment and retribution, it will not work. For the Nordic example...

The fact is that in those countries, the reoffending rate is half what

it is here. I talked about the caring approach inside prisons and

I think that works. I've read some of your ideas... I'm glad you've

read it! Literacy classes, drug programmes. They will cost money up

front and your Justice Secretary says he wants to see the money

spent go down. How we get the prison system cheaper and better is

you have less people going to prison. That will benefit the

public. It has to go in up front. A there's some consideration now, but

the way forward, Uni proper mentoring. Yi need people being

turned around. Are you convinced the government is prepared to spend

money? In the old days, five or 10 years ago, there were 47 key

performance indicators for a prison. All of them were security based.

Now the fundamental change is it is all about rehabilitation. Thank you.

When times get tough, one option is to sell off the family silver. That

is what Newcastle council has decided to do by flocking one of

A unique piece of Newcastle's Heritage is to be sold to hop luck

and �90 million funding gap. The Lord Mayor's official coach Dyldin

7090 it is up for sale. David Cameron paid a flying visit to

Carlisle on Friday end of next week's Police Commissioner

elections. Ministers say they are helping more people off benefit and

into work. That is not the view of Stephen Hedman. This government are

forcing sick people who have got cancer, who have got brain damage

and who are dying back into work. It is a disgrace. When will this

barbarity end? Her for Middlesbrough by-election will be

held on 29th November. The Conservatives will select in the

next few days. The government has called off the privatisation of

Durham jail, by three companies are still bidding to run Northumberland

prison. Ash dieback disease has been identified and clears from

County Durham and tie inside. -- I haven't persuaded my boss to get

me a car yet! Let's talk about ashtrays. This is not what we want

from Europe. What is your view on how this has been handled? Be it

has been spreading since the early 1990s, starting in Poland, Baltic

states, Germany, Sweden, Finland. At European level we have a plant

health regime that is being reviewed and has been for the last

two years and that should be finished in the next few months. It

will include a strengthening of early warning systems.

Unfortunately these things cost money. It is worth bearing in mind

that we need these mechanisms in place at European level. Or was it

inevitable that it would spread to the UK? Has their government done

anything wrong? I don't think so. I think for spores that they have

this disease can be weaned born and were probably wind born into the

areas affected in Norfolk and have probably spread further in any case.

There have been other pests we have managed to either a rest of control.

The Asian longhorn beetle, fire blight, these things have been far

more limited. In this case, the national identity cone reporting of

his problem was lacking across the continent. How worried should we

be? It has been found close to your consistency -- constituency. It was

found most recently in well there. It was found in a very mature tree

just outside the National Park. There's containment taking place.

It is going to be a problem and everyone should report any worrying

signs of deterioration to the Forestry Commission, who are doing

a fantastic job. Is there any danger that we could see parts of

the countryside shut down? I do think that is a real problem.

is an airborne disease. The there's nothing you can do about it

travelling. You just have to be very, very watchful. The Forestry

Commission have to watch our four Where does pop up. And also we have

to stop imports. Labour have criticised the government for

inaction. They would do that, wouldn't they? The first ever

discovery of this was in February. So in February to October, they

visited over 1,000 sites and have chopped down 100,000 trees. Thank

you. That's about it from us. You can keep up-to-date by following

the on Twitter. There's more on ideas on how to reform our prisons.