13/01/2013 Sunday Politics North East and Cumbria

In the North East and Cumbria: And other benefits bombshell. The

unemployed and low income families have to pay council tax for the

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2535 seconds

Hello and a belated happy New Year. Welcome to your local part of the

show. Joining me around the table, the Labour MP for Washington and

Sunderland West, Sharon Hodgson, and the Conservative MP for

Carlisle. Coming up, did a �9 billion public health scheme really

help people in Middlesbrough get any fitter? The decision to limit

the increase in benefits for the next three years. Benefits like

jobseeker's allowance, Working Tax Credit and maternity play would

normally go up with inflation but now they will be capped to 1%.

Sharon Hodgson, like most of the Labour Party he voted against these

plans, but a lot of people believe it is right to cut the welfare bill.

It is right to cut the welfare bill and we need to do that by getting

more people into work and higher- paid jobs so that the tax credits

Bill comes down, but it is the unfairness of it. It is much easier

to swallow one % rise which is in effect a cut when you're working

and getting a salary than it is when you are on benefit because you

have no capacity within the benefits. You say it is easier to

swallow but a lot of public sector workers face this pay cap and their

taxes are going to pay for benefits which you wanted to see operated by

3%. When you're working, you have that capacity, that bit more money.

Not everyone would agree with you. If you are talking about you only

have �70 a week and you have to take a cut on that to see if you

have only got �300 a week, it is easier on �300 a week to swallow a

cut down on 70. John, this is hitting the poorest people in the

pocket for three years to come. have to accept the backdrop of this.

We have a budget deficit that is huge. But you are picking on the

poorest people, that is the accusation. We are back -- asking

people in the public sector to take one % increase in the next three

years. It is only reasonable to ask people on benefits to do the same.

Those in benefits in the last few years have received a 20% increase

whereas those in employment have only received a 12 % increase.

lot of people who will be affected are not working. Those who are in

work, what we have done with that is increased their personal

allowance. For those 2 million people now are not paying income

tax because of the increase in personal allowance, on top of that,

those on the minimum benefit have seen their tax half. We will come

back to the issue of benefits because another bit of a change is

about to take place, the abolition of council tax benefit. That is the

help make available to those who cannot pay their full council tax.

There will be 10% less money from central Government to fund it. It

is now up to local councils to decide who will qualify for

exemptions. That could mean some unemployed people on low income

families have to pay a share of their council tax for the first

time. The Meadow Well Estate in North

Tyneside, high unemployment, high dependency on benefit. So many

people here do not pay council tax. From April that could change. The

council is protecting that for every one of working age, they pay

at least 20% of their bill, or �200 a year minimum. Do I am already

struggling. As you can see, that is already worrying people who get

council tax benefit. People like part-time worker Denise and

unemployed single parents colic and Philippa. Everyone has to take

their fair share but this feels like another thing. When is it

going to end? What is next? It makes people feel very vulnerable.

I am a single parent with one child and that is asking not just me to

live on less than what I am physically able to live on, but

asking my child to do the same. People will struggle to pay and end

up going to court and all the areas they will have to pay mean it is

extra money on top of that. But the council says it needs to find a way

of bridging the gap between the benefit bill and the money given it

by the Government. It says unless everyone contributes, including

those who have never played before, there will have to be cuts to

services. There is a �1.8 billion gap to be found. If it does not

come to this -- from this scheme it will have to come from other

services. We have already done a lot of work to save money and

responses from residents indicated that the majority feel people

should make some contribution and a higher percentage felt that there

should be a scheme which fits within the finances that are

available. North Tyneside will not make a final decision on their

council tax benefit regime until the end of January but others are

looking at other solutions. Hambleton and Richmondshire in

North Yorkshire are looking for residents to pay a minimum of 8.5 %,

as are Newcastle, but other councils still believe they can

prevent the poorest from paying any council tax. That includes Durham.

It is managing to protect people who qualify for council tax benefit

by removing discounts for second- home owners and raising the charge

to 150 % on some empty hands. used to receive �55 million in

grant funding from the Government. We now have a short for. If we pass

that on to the working age households, they will have to find

an average of �250 a year. This is money they have not got. So we

thought for the first 12 months we would protect them. The council

says it can only guarantee that support for one year and with many

expecting even less Government funding in the future, it seems

likely that more and more of the poorest will be asked to pay more

and more council tax. Monica Burns is from the National

Housing Federation which represents housing associations, many of the

tenants of which will have to pay council tax in the future. If they

do, what sort of impact will that have? Huge. We are talking about

people whose incomes are already really stretched. It is actually

the lowest paid, some are working, on benefits, but they really do not

have much disposable income and flexibility within that. This is

yet another thing that is asked of them. It is on top of the bedroom

tax which we are very concerned about, which is going to be a huge

thing for a lot of people. People in over occupancy of homes, three

bedrooms when there is only one of them. Court Two bedrooms when there

is only two of them. That is deemed to be under occupying. People are

asked to pay extra per room. reality is the Government needs to

save money and we need to share the pain, that is what they say.

Exactly, and we feel that people are being asked to share too much

of that pain. We have talked to many people. People are talking

about going without food, heating, a lot of people are already relying

on food banks and that is before these cuts to come in. So we are

very concerned about the impact. Does it worry you that this will

vary from place to place, different schemes and different councils. In

neighbouring areas you can have one place where you pay council tax and

another way you do not. Yes, and it will be difficult for housing

associations to get on top of it as well because they may have stock in

different areas and people in different areas will be eligible

for different amounts of money. It will be difficult for us to

manipulate. John Stevenson, this really is yet another cut to some

of the poorest people, effectively. The councils have to try to take

the flak. There are two issues, localism and the financial aspect.

I welcome the decision because localism is important, allowing

local authorities to decide what is right for their own communities. It

is interesting to hear that innovation is coming from Durham

council compared to the other councils. It is up to individual

councils to decide what they do. It is up to the councils to decide

what their priorities are. They can move resources if they wished so

that there is no change or they can do other things. The road has been

pulled from under them by a cutting the funded by 10%. For a lot of

councils there is no choice, that either cut services or they start

to raise council tax on the very poorest people in society. There is

a variety of things they can do. Some councils are increasing second

home council tax. In Carlisle, they have decided to retain the present

system but they are increasing the council tax for second homes. So it

is up to individual councils to decide. The reality is actually

that when North Tyneside asked people, they said they thought it

was right that people made a contribution, whatever their income.

I am sure some people would think that but I cannot help but think

what a mess this is, to be honest. It has Eric Pickles all over of it.

-- all over it. I am sure he must not speak to Iain Duncan Smith at

all because my understanding was we would get universal credit which

would put all benefits under one system. For some reason they have

left council tax benefit out of it. They have set to councils, we are

going to give you a grand but only 90% so you have to find 10% from

council tax. But they can find other ways of doing it. When you

talk about the layering of the effect of all these changes on

people, the poorest people, there is also the same effect on the

council. They have had huge cuts to their budget and this is another

one on top. It is also ludicrous. For the last two years we had

something called a council tax freeze. They said, we are not

putting the council tax Cup, to help people. Now they are putting

it up 10%. Different councils doing different things. Sunderland, a

Labour council in your area, will charge a quick 5% minimum. Another

council says people should pay 30%. It is just going to be confusion.

Your viewers watching this today probably have not heard that this

was going to happen. They might have heard about bedroom tax and

universal credit. For some it will be the first they have heard of it,

and the panic that will ensue. People will think, shall I move?

For full Cannes people who do not have that option, what will they

do? There will be some big problems for councils. They are asking for

money from people who are likely to default. It is up to local councils

as to what they want to do. There is an argument to suggest that if

people are making a contribution to council tax, however small, they

will take a much greater interest in the day-to-day activities of

that council and want to see the services of that council improved.

In this case, why has the Government decided to exempt goal

that people from this, who seemed to keep their benefits almost all

the time. -- exempt all the people. We have said that elderly people

will be protected. Why are they more vulnerable than a single

parents? They are elderly and have different issues. But for people in

work, we are helping those and at the lower end it is up to councils

to decide what is the right policy for their area.

This week, the Government announced an increased budget for public

health, badly-needed despite good progress in reducing smoking and

other long term illnesses. Four years ago the Labour Government

thought it had part of the answer. It launched an initiative to try to

change behaviour, but what long- The a core is the cruellest month,

then January is surely the toughest, forcing gardeners out when it is

dead cold. This garden sits in the middle of an Easter side housing

estate, created through the healthy town programme. It helps me keep

involved. It is a social thing as well. It gives me a lot of self-

esteem. There are vegetables at the end of the day. We harvest and,

sell them on. The difference is phenomenal. In terms of physical

health, they are getting out doors, fresh-air, different activities. In

terms of mental health, well-being the increases. Without this

programme we would not have had the resources. Along with the fresh

fruit and vegetables produced on an urban farm like this, money from

the scheme is also used to great sporting opportunities in

Middlesbrough. �3,472 helped create a fencing club. A roller hockey

club got �5,000 worth of equipment, and �750,000 bills a cycling centre.

This cycling club was the star prize in the programme. It is a

place where ordinary cyclists can come and exercise safely and elite

cyclists can stop their quest to compete at the next Olympic Games.

But Middlesbrough's most recent Hulk report card show that the town

still has high rates of obesity, smoking, drug and alcohol abuse and

death from a stroke. So does the council think that spending

millions on a health promotion scheme has been value for money?

The cost of surgery for the City for one person can run into many

thousands of pounds. Treatments for diabetes, high blood pressure,

heart disease that you get as a result, and diabetes. All these

things add up. It is a very good expenditure of money. It is what we

should be spending money on. Back at the bike track, the councillor

responsible for the programme says it was �9 million well spent. But

it may be some time before its true legacy is realised. Without the

scheme we would be in a much worse place than we are at the moment. It

was the precursor of helping people to change their eating habits,

exercise habits. We have a way to go. We have to prepare to be in it

for the long term and not take our foot off the pedal.

Sharon Hodgson, the skin has clearly helped some people -- the

scheme. But it may not immediately help the problem of obesity. Yes,

and one of my new year's resolutions is to lose weight. I am

aware that I am slightly larger than I should be. One of the areas

I cover is school food and I really believe that is where we have to

start. Something called the Food For Life partnership works across

some of our schools and it is so amazing that I would ask any

cancels out there when they are spending their money to look at

this partnership. They do cooking, growing food, exactly what we have

seen, in school, and healthier school meals. It transforms the

eating habits of those children. Isn't it time, forgive the pun,

that this is all carrot activity to lure people in but don't you

actually need to tax unhealthy food? I know they have entered into

all of these responsibility deals with the McDonald's of this world

and Coca-Cola and Pepsi. I do not think they are working. Andy

Burnham this week launched a campaign saying we should do just

that and put some targets on how much salt they should be in things,

and sugar and fat. That would be a start. If people are going to eat

that food, making less fattening. That is the point, isn't it? If we

are treated obesity like cigarettes we would wrap up the tax? No one

seems to have the appetite to take on these food companies. There are

some new ideas and innovation within local authorities. On the

issues you are talking about, Government has a role, industry has

a role. But most importantly, the individual has a role. We have to

take responsibility for our own lives. Parents have a role, and the

education system does. Also, people smoke perhaps more when it was

cheaper. They did. That is one possibility, to go down the

legislative rich. I would be inclined not to. I think it is

through education and personal responsibility that you can improve

the health of a nation. The move to public health going into local

authorities I think is a good way of encouraging local authorities to

come up with good ideas that can improve the health of their local

authority. Are they doing the right thing here? The move to public

health and local authorities? Yes. I hope they use it wisely. They

might not have as much many -- money to spend as they would like

to. I have already broken my new year's resolution to be kinder to

MPs. I cannot help it. I hope you are faring better. We persuaded our

correspondent Mark to go on a cheap seat regime but now he insisted

instead this year's new year's resolution would be to squeeze even

more political stories in 260 Seconds.

The number of Sure Starts centres is falling. Darlington, Gateshead

and Redcar are among centres where they have been merged or shut down.

Protests were held in Newcastle against the plans to close

libraries. A local MP says the level of cuts face by Newcastle is

unfair and disproportionate. All I am asking is that they treat

Newcastle City Council and my constituents with the respect they

deserve and act urgently upon these concerns. It should be made easier

to switch to an elected mayor, according to a Cumbrian MP. He says

too many voters have to sign a petition before a referendum can be

helped. At present this is 5% of the electorate, a barrier that is

too high. And a big hole in the Government -- not in the

Government's coffers but here, where the road has collapsed. Danny

Alexander was there to announce superfast broadband for the town.

He promised to look into it. He hasn't got any new jokes for

2013 but Sharon Hodgson, why do you think Sure Starts centres have been

closed by its some local authorities, whereas Lib Dem and

Conservative councils in some places have managed to keep theirs?

The basic answer is the cuts. Huge budget cuts that start at around

40% across nearly all local authorities. And difficult

decisions. It is localism but it puts the cuts that central

Government has given to local Government and it blows the blame

on local Government and it is the biggest broken promise that Cameron

has made, when he said that he would protect Sure Start. The issue

of mayor's. It surprises me that people are still flocking this.

Heseltine's solution for improving growth in the region is the unitary

authorities and strong local leadership. I think people should

get the choice. That is all I am saying. I want to see more

petitions, the threshold reduced from say 5% to 1%. But then it is

up to the local area to decide if they want an elected mayor. Then we

will see is people can be offered again. Thank you Berry much. That

is it from us. There is more about the council tax changes on my block.

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