22/09/2013 Sunday Politics North East and Cumbria


22/09/2013

Andrew Neil and Richard Moss with the latest political news, interviews and debate.


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over the two thirds of the ethnic minority vote but now stands accused

:00:10.:01:38.

of institutional racism. Are they right? With me, the best and the

:01:38.:01:47.

brightest political panel in the business. Isabel Hardman, Janan

:01:47.:01:51.

be tweeting like demented Damians throughout the programme. First

:01:52.:01:55.

today, scrapping the bedroom tax. Universal childcare for primary

:01:55.:02:01.

school kids. More apprenticeships. Labour Conference only begins in

:02:01.:02:03.

earnest today, but the policy and spending commitments are coming

:02:03.:02:08.

according to the Labour leader's critics. He's been out and about

:02:08.:02:12.

this morning and told Andrew Marr that he knew it was going to be

:02:12.:02:22.

this morning and told Andrew Marr It is about a party that lost office

:02:22.:02:26.

three years ago. We are trying to be a one term opposition. That is

:02:26.:02:31.

tough. I believe it is a fight that we can win and I am up for that

:02:31.:02:38.

fight. The stakes are so high for young people who want a job, for

:02:38.:02:42.

people whose living standards are being squeezed. For people who think

:02:42.:02:48.

that this is not good enough for Britain. So what do key Labour Party

:02:48.:02:54.

activists - its councillors - think about the direction Mr Miliband

:02:54.:02:58.

activists - its councillors - think taking their party? Adam Fleming is

:02:58.:03:00.

in Brighton at the Party Conference with all the details of our latest

:03:00.:03:07.

exclusive Sunday Politics survey. conference set. Let us unwrap them.

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With the help of an opinion poll we surveyed 1350 Labour councillors

:03:17.:03:21.

across England and Wales. We wanted to find out what they think as

:03:21.:03:26.

Labour gathers for its conference. The Labour leader warmed up for

:03:26.:03:30.

Labour gathers for its conference. week by taking to his soap box in

:03:30.:03:32.

Brighton city centre. It is great week by taking to his soap box in

:03:32.:03:40.

councillors said they did not think Ed Miliband was doing a good job as

:03:40.:03:46.

leader. 30% said they thought the party would have a better chance if

:03:46.:03:50.

someone else was in charge at the next election. You will see more of

:03:50.:03:58.

Ed Miliband as we run-up to general election. He has been in the job for

:03:58.:04:08.

three years! Now it is crunch time. The other Ed, Ed Balls, was disliked

:04:08.:04:13.

by roughly one third of the party as well. Ed Balls is not a pop your

:04:13.:04:19.

man. He says things and he speaks his mind. -- not a popular man.

:04:19.:04:31.

diplomatic. Sadly Ed Balls did not seem to be that bothered about our

:04:31.:04:36.

survey. Over at a conference centre When it comes to relations with

:04:36.:04:43.

trade unions, the majority of Labour councillors thought things were

:04:43.:04:49.

absolutely fine. Just 9% thought things with the unions were a little

:04:49.:04:53.

bit too close. Tricky because Ed Miliband want to loosen the link.

:04:53.:04:58.

The shadow environment secretary arrived in Brighton ride bicycle

:04:58.:05:03.

from London to raise money for councillors what they would do if

:05:03.:05:10.

the next election results in a hung parliament, just over half said

:05:10.:05:15.

the next election results in a hung would tell the lid Dems to get on

:05:16.:05:16.

their bikes. We would never say would tell the lid Dems to get on

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to going into coalition. It gives us the chance to be in government and

:05:21.:05:24.

prepare some of the damage of the last three years. So are you going

:05:24.:05:29.

to start being nice about the Lib Dems? I always treat them with

:05:29.:05:35.

courtesy. And the parties admitted that perhaps they had opened the

:05:35.:05:38.

door to too many immigrants. It that perhaps they had opened the

:05:38.:05:44.

our survey Labour councillors of warming the felt that immigration

:05:44.:05:51.

We're now joined by the Shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury, Rachel

:05:51.:06:00.

Reeves. Good morning. Let us start with Ed Miliband. Is it true that

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the team insisted that he be called the leader? I just call him Ed and I

:06:05.:06:12.

think the rest of the Shadow Cabinet do. Do you welcome working for a

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leader that says he is winning back socialism? We are a democratic

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important thing is that we have socialism? We are a democratic

:06:26.:06:35.

policies that will improve people 's lives and tackle the cost of living

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crisis facing so many families. Policies like expanding childcare,

:06:40.:06:46.

offering more apprenticeships, all policies that I think the country

:06:46.:06:51.

are calling out for after three years of a flat-lining economy and

:06:51.:06:58.

seeing prices rise faster than wages for 38 out of the 39 months but

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Minister. I think that is the most important thing. So it is OK now to

:07:05.:07:10.

risk their to the Labour Party again as the Socialist party? The clue is

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in the name, we stand up for working people. You are socialist party

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according to the leader. We have always been the Labour Party, that

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is our name and we stand up for working people, not the privileged

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few like this government with their tax cuts for millionaires. Those are

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privileged few. The Labour Party is about helping everyone in Britain,

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all families. Interesting that your run don't use the word socialist. In

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our survey one third of Labour councillors said Ed Miliband was not

:07:50.:07:56.

doing a good job as leader. If he councillors, who can he convince?

:07:56.:08:02.

Well you could say that two thirds of councillors think that he is

:08:02.:08:07.

Well you could say that two thirds right leader. But these are Labour

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councillors. The overall majority of Labour councillors think that he is

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doing a good job. What matters is the results on election day. Two

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thirds of councillors think that he is doing a good job. That us see

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what they say at the end of this week. Because I think the policies

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he is announcing will go down well week. Because I think the policies

:08:32.:08:37.

with Labour Party people and will also resonate with the British

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public. Policies like expanding apprenticeships, giving a break

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public. Policies like expanding struggling. I think people will

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public. Policies like expanding what kind of a leader that he is.

:08:49.:08:53.

Well he has a mountain to climb among all voters. Let me ask the

:08:53.:09:02.

question. Just 12% see him as a Prime Minister in waiting, just

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question. Just 12% see him as a see him as a natural leader. Why? If

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question. Just 12% see him as a you look at the overall opinion

:09:10.:09:14.

polls, we are consistently ahead in those polls. It is hard being leader

:09:14.:09:19.

demonstrate how you would be Prime Minister. By nature you are in

:09:19.:09:26.

opposition. But he has taken on Rupert Murdoch and the press barons.

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That is strong leadership, standing up to the vast majority. If you

:09:31.:09:37.

That is strong leadership, standing at his reforms to our relationship

:09:37.:09:41.

with the trade unions, strengthening ties with individual members. I

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think that he is a strong leader making the right decisions. If that

:09:48.:09:51.

is the case, why has the Labour making the right decisions. If that

:09:51.:09:57.

gone from 14 points one year ago to at most four points now. What went

:09:57.:10:04.

wrong? Well we are six or eight are six or eight points ahead in the

:10:04.:10:08.

consistently ahead. It looks as are six or eight points ahead in the

:10:08.:10:14.

we would get an overall majority if there was an election tomorrow.

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we would get an overall majority if we have more work to do to convince

:10:17.:10:18.

more people to vote for Labour. we have more work to do to convince

:10:18.:10:25.

a one term Labour opposition. I this is a historic challenge, to be

:10:25.:10:29.

a one term Labour opposition. I believe that Ed Miliband will be the

:10:29.:10:32.

next Labour Prime Minister and will be an excellent Prime Minister. The

:10:32.:10:38.

big policy announcement today is the guaranteed childcare for all primary

:10:38.:10:41.

school children. How much will that government, they ring fenced money

:10:41.:10:52.

after-school and breakfast clubs. We think that money should be ring

:10:52.:10:55.

fenced again. How much will it cost? We are saying that schools

:10:55.:11:01.

within their budgets should be able to provide that. At the moment they

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can charge for children to come to provide that. At the moment they

:11:05.:11:12.

their first clubs. But this is a additional money. As it was under

:11:12.:11:17.

the last Labour government it will be about ring fencing money because

:11:18.:11:22.

we think that this is a priority. This is something that the schools

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should do. You cannot ring fenced money you do not have. You saying

:11:28.:11:37.

schoolchild from eight o'clock in the morning until six o'clock at

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night and it will not cost any more money? Well we did ring fence that

:11:41.:11:46.

money in the last Labour government. That money is gone! It has not gone.

:11:46.:11:52.

It is about priorities and we are saying that it should be a priority

:11:52.:12:02.

where is the money being spent now that you would take it from? If

:12:02.:12:07.

where is the money being spent now look at some of the things that

:12:07.:12:09.

where is the money being spent now government is doing, building free

:12:09.:12:11.

schools in areas where there are already enough. That is capital

:12:11.:12:19.

spending. We are ring fencing that priorities. We had the ring fence

:12:19.:12:26.

when we were in government. It would be reintroduced so that schools

:12:26.:12:29.

when we were in government. It would to offer that wraparound care. Of

:12:29.:12:31.

course schools can charge a small to offer that wraparound care. Of

:12:32.:12:36.

fee for their breakfast clubs and after-school DVDs. But the important

:12:36.:12:41.

thing is that provision is there for parents going out to work. Ed Balls

:12:41.:12:48.

and Ed Miliband are at the heart of the Brown project. Damien Wright was

:12:48.:12:55.

the hit man. Is it not inconceivable that they did not know what he was

:12:55.:12:59.

the hit man. Is it not inconceivable up to. It is inconceivable that

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the hit man. Is it not inconceivable did not -- Damian McBride. I am

:13:08.:13:09.

asking about Damian McBride. What did not -- Damian McBride. I am

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asking about Damian McBride. What I'm saying is that I was not there.

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I was not there under the last Labour government. But I do know

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that these things are not happening under the leadership of Ed Miliband.

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that backstabbing going on. There is no plotting against Ed Balls going

:13:37.:13:42.

on? I do not see that. And anyone who briefed against colleagues

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should be sacked, I agree with that. Nick Clegg's conference speech made

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it clear he was repaired to work with Ed Miliband in the event of a

:13:55.:14:00.

hung parliament. Are you excited by that prospect or is it just boring?

:14:00.:14:09.

That is very generous of Nick Clegg to say that. With his poll ratings

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of 9%. I think it is up to the general public to decide who they

:14:17.:14:21.

want to form a government. We are campaigning for an overall Labour

:14:21.:14:23.

that just boring boring? I want campaigning for an overall Labour

:14:23.:14:38.

serve in a Labour government is campaigning for an overall Labour

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a coalition government. That is campaigning for an overall Labour

:14:41.:14:44.

we are campaigning for. Thank you for joining us. Steve Richards,

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we are campaigning for. Thank you has Ed Miliband got to do this

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week? He has got to start to win the argument about the economy. I think

:14:55.:15:01.

they will be quite clever on that in terms of saying that the recovery

:15:01.:15:05.

has begun but it is not going to benefit many of the voters. Unlike

:15:05.:15:10.

previous economic recoveries. That is a strong line and they need to

:15:10.:15:24.

make that again and again. The recovery has barely started. The

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make that again and again. The interesting thing, Isabel, they

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make that again and again. The to make a living standards the issue

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let's return to living standards which have been squeezed. The polls

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show that twice as many people blame Labour for the living standards

:15:36.:15:42.

show that twice as many people blame the Conservatives. It is a great

:15:42.:15:44.

scene for them to mine, and it is the only one before they announce

:15:44.:15:48.

big policies, but they have not gained the trust of voters on the

:15:48.:15:52.

economy, so the Conservatives can say they are finishing the job of

:15:52.:15:56.

fixing the recovery now and then cannot quite trust us with the

:15:56.:16:02.

economy but we will talk about living standards. Ed Miliband's

:16:02.:16:09.

economy but we will talk about elucidating policies and not just

:16:09.:16:12.

incredibly vulnerable. The only thing worse than not having a policy

:16:12.:16:18.

for an opposition leader is to have a policy. It gives the opposition

:16:18.:16:24.

something to attack, the media something to scrutinise and it makes

:16:24.:16:26.

you bold rubble and you can see something to scrutinise and it makes

:16:26.:16:31.

coming through already before the conference has started. You have

:16:31.:16:41.

childcare. Spigot can he provide wraparound childcare for free?

:16:41.:16:47.

childcare. Spigot can he provide can he provide wraparound childcare

:16:47.:16:49.

for free? I don't even know what it is. Opposition is emphatically an

:16:49.:16:56.

art form, and the art form, and artform for them at the moment is to

:16:56.:17:00.

announce policies without spending any money and it is very difficult

:17:00.:17:05.

to do. You gave an illustration any money and it is very difficult

:17:05.:17:09.

how difficult it is. They are under huge pressure, for the last year, to

:17:09.:17:14.

announce policies and they announce one on childcare and you immediately

:17:14.:17:18.

say, how do you paper it? And she immediately says, we will not spend

:17:18.:17:22.

a penny on it, because they are terrified of spending anything.

:17:22.:17:28.

a penny on it, because they are is where it an artform. The tax

:17:28.:17:32.

suspension before and election is crazy, because they will find money

:17:32.:17:37.

one way or another, but in another way, they cannot say we will spend

:17:37.:17:41.

money on this. It is a real problem. How do you measure the state of

:17:41.:17:44.

money on this. It is a real problem. coalition after the Liberal Democrat

:17:44.:17:47.

conference? The Liberal Democrats were in a very strong position after

:17:47.:17:51.

their conference, Nick Clegg had faced and activists on some issues,

:17:51.:17:55.

including fracking, which they supported, which seem to be the

:17:55.:17:59.

including fracking, which they important part of the conference. In

:17:59.:18:02.

terms of the coalition, the Tories have had to sit and watch as Vince

:18:02.:18:06.

Cable, Nick Clegg and Coe have basically criticised them and said

:18:06.:18:10.

they are evil and only the Lib Dems can make sure the Government is

:18:10.:18:13.

they are evil and only the Lib Dems and works properly. So in terms

:18:13.:18:14.

they are evil and only the Lib Dems how the coalition works, you can

:18:14.:18:17.

expect to see some revenge at the Tory conference. The Lib Dems, Nick

:18:17.:18:25.

Clegg's followers, they had their revenge. Mister Clegg may have

:18:25.:18:32.

convinced his own activists to stay behind him, but he has a bigger

:18:32.:18:38.

convincing the British people. There is some interesting polling they

:18:38.:18:41.

have done privately that suggests there is a market of about 25% of

:18:41.:18:46.

the electorate which is plausibly open to them, and all they have

:18:46.:18:49.

the electorate which is plausibly do is target policies remorselessly

:18:49.:18:51.

at that group, rather than the broader public, in order to do well

:18:51.:18:55.

enough at the next election to hold the balance of power. That is why

:18:55.:18:57.

policies that seem weird to us, the balance of power. That is why

:18:58.:19:01.

free school meals regardless of income, may perversely make sense to

:19:01.:19:15.

them. Because it appeals to their political world we are in, the

:19:15.:19:17.

Labour strategists think they can political world we are in, the

:19:17.:19:19.

Labour strategists think they can win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going

:19:19.:19:20.

to concentrate on 25. The Tories win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going

:19:20.:19:22.

to concentrate on 25. The Tories have seized to be a national party

:19:22.:19:24.

any more. We haven't been used to it for a long time. In the 80s, one

:19:24.:19:28.

party dominated, the Tories. In for a long time. In the 80s, one

:19:28.:19:32.

90s into the 21st century, the policy matter delayed the Labour

:19:32.:19:39.

Party dominated. -- the Labour party dominated. We are now here but we

:19:39.:19:42.

have other parties hoping that dominated. We are now here but we

:19:42.:19:46.

will give them a small overall majority and it is the best they can

:19:46.:19:49.

get. It is a very odd situation where the main two parties feel

:19:49.:19:55.

get. It is a very odd situation can lose and the Lib Dems are openly

:19:55.:20:00.

targeting only 25%. They have gotten rid of 75% already and it is a long

:20:00.:20:05.

way from the policies of last couple of decades Nick Clegg talked about

:20:05.:20:12.

all of the policies he had locked. There is a real opportunity for

:20:12.:20:15.

all of the policies he had locked. Conservatives to say that he is

:20:15.:20:17.

blocking all of the things that voters outside of our bays are

:20:17.:20:21.

interested in, top immigration policy, human rights reform, that

:20:21.:20:26.

sort of thing. David Cameron can say that in Manchester next week. One

:20:26.:20:30.

thing was quite clear, it came out of this awayday, and and this is

:20:30.:20:46.

this, that when you look at Mister Miller band's polls, the Tories

:20:46.:20:51.

this, that when you look at Mister going to make this a presidential

:20:51.:20:57.

Which is why I am curious why they When the strength of your party

:20:57.:21:03.

Which is why I am curious why they against his opponents, why not have

:21:04.:21:07.

him or her juxtaposed against them in 90 minutes three times a week.

:21:07.:21:09.

past week has given us inklings When the Lib Dems gathered for their

:21:09.:21:17.

Government is planning on fighting When the Lib Dems gathered for their

:21:17.:21:23.

annual shindig in Glasgow, some ministers were non-too complimentary

:21:23.:21:25.

about their blue blood fellows. ministers were non-too complimentary

:21:25.:21:31.

bedfellows. Vince Cable led the ministers were non-too complimentary

:21:31.:21:36.

Tories had reverted to type as a nasty party and describe their

:21:36.:21:40.

politics as ugly, cynical, callous and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not

:21:40.:21:44.

restrict himself to policies that and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not

:21:44.:21:47.

the Lib Dems had champion, such and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not

:21:47.:21:49.

increasing the amount you can earn before paying tax. The Deputy Prime

:21:49.:21:58.

Minister proudly listed all of the things he had stopped the Tories

:21:58.:22:01.

from doing. Speak of scrapping housing benefit the young people,

:22:01.:22:05.

no. No to ditching the human rights act. No to weakening the protections

:22:05.:22:13.

in the equalities act. So how much of a break have the yellow brigade

:22:13.:22:16.

being on Conservative ambitions question mark in the two leaders

:22:16.:22:18.

shake hands again after the 20 question mark in the two leaders

:22:18.:22:22.

election, what policies were David Cameron insist on. -- 2015? No

:22:22.:22:29.

matter how many times Nick Clegg And Grant Shapps joins me the Sunday

:22:29.:22:32.

Grant Shapps, good morning. Nick self-styled. He boasted to his

:22:32.:22:48.

conference that he had stopped the Tories from going ahead with 16

:22:48.:22:52.

policies in government. Is this accurate? I don't know but what

:22:52.:22:56.

policies in government. Is this can tell you, as your commentator

:22:56.:22:59.

Isabel said, some of the policies that we wanted them if we were a

:22:59.:23:02.

majority government sent out to that we wanted them if we were a

:23:02.:23:05.

very popular things, like reforming the human rights act and some of the

:23:05.:23:10.

problems that provides when it comes to sending people who have no right

:23:10.:23:11.

to be in this country back. So there to be in this country back. So there

:23:11.:23:14.

may be some things we could have inheritance tax cut? I don't know

:23:14.:23:24.

the details, but I think it is negotiation and sometimes you can't

:23:24.:23:30.

get everything you want, and we negotiation and sometimes you can't

:23:30.:23:35.

done the best, given where the electoral maths left us. That is why

:23:35.:23:37.

70 people in this country say they electoral maths left us. That is why

:23:37.:23:39.

70 people in this country say they would rather see a single party

:23:39.:23:42.

running the country -- why so many people. I have to say I agree. They

:23:42.:23:49.

Give me a couple of major policies that you would introduce if you

:23:49.:23:53.

Give me a couple of major policies had a majority in 2010 and were

:23:53.:23:55.

Give me a couple of major policies held back by the Lib Dems. Speaking

:23:55.:24:01.

the one I just mentioned would be Country, we have had 1,000 years of

:24:01.:24:07.

than capable of putting in place developing the law and we are more

:24:07.:24:11.

than capable of putting in place sensible laws. you would have left

:24:11.:24:14.

the European Court of human rights. We have already started the process

:24:14.:24:18.

of negotiation. There was some progress, but limited, and we would

:24:18.:24:23.

like to move further. Let me give you one other. I think this country

:24:23.:24:27.

has a great future but we can only ourselves the best place in the

:24:27.:24:30.

world to come and set up a business. ourselves the best place in the

:24:30.:24:34.

If we make ourselves the best place entrepreneurship and I think there

:24:34.:24:39.

are a host of things we could do to go further on cutting back red tape.

:24:39.:24:44.

And the Lib Dems have stopped you? I think that is the case. In what

:24:44.:24:52.

ways, if any, have the Lib Dems improved the coalition process? It

:24:52.:24:56.

has been a stable government. No one talks about when the next election

:24:56.:24:58.

will come, we know it is in May talks about when the next election

:24:58.:25:04.

but that is in part being in a coalition. The Tories wouldn't have

:25:04.:25:10.

done that? It wasn't the plan of any party to go from... In the old days,

:25:10.:25:16.

there would have been speculation. debate, you changed the British

:25:16.:25:21.

constitution in a fundamental way and nobody got a say. It was debated

:25:21.:25:27.

on the floor of the Has, as all constitutional changes are and there

:25:27.:25:33.

was a lot of agreement -- of the House. Nobody has ever said to me

:25:33.:25:36.

that it is a problem that we now have a fixed term parliament. Here

:25:36.:25:44.

it is, every five years. This is what it has done, it has provided

:25:44.:25:49.

stability in an incredibly uncertain economic time and that has been

:25:49.:25:52.

stability in an incredibly uncertain for the economy. we will chalk that

:25:52.:26:01.

up to delete -- Lib Dem. What about taking people out of tax, the Lib

:26:01.:26:08.

Dems did that question mark it is a great policy. It is a conservative

:26:09.:26:15.

led government, it is a Conservative This is a screen grab from your

:26:15.:26:21.

party's website, income tax cut This is a screen grab from your

:26:21.:26:25.

25 million people. You are taking the credit for it, it wouldn't have

:26:25.:26:29.

happened without the Lib Dems. It certainly came about because of

:26:29.:26:33.

happened without the Lib Dems. It coalition and we put it in the

:26:33.:26:35.

coalition agreement. It could not have happened without a Conservative

:26:35.:26:36.

Chancellor making it happen. It have happened without a Conservative

:26:36.:26:41.

right, 25 million people taken out of tax. Another 17 by this April

:26:41.:26:48.

will not be paying tax at all. you didn't want to do it. Look at what

:26:48.:26:52.

David Cameron told Nick Clegg during What Nick Clegg is promising is

:26:52.:27:06.

David Cameron told Nick Clegg during £17 billion tax cut. We are saying,

:27:06.:27:10.

stop the waste of 6 billion to stop the national insurance rise. I would

:27:10.:27:14.

love to take everyone out of their first £10,000 of income tax, it

:27:14.:27:17.

love to take everyone out of their beautiful idea but we cannot afford

:27:17.:27:24.

unaffordable and now you are taking the credit for it. I feel like it is

:27:24.:27:30.

having a three year afterwards argument, and we got into coalition

:27:30.:27:33.

because the British people put us there and we agreed to make the

:27:33.:27:37.

because the British people put us of it. And as it happens, if you

:27:37.:27:41.

absolutely think it is the right thing to take as many people out of

:27:41.:27:45.

tax entirely as possible. Two points 7 million people pay no tax at all

:27:45.:27:54.

threshold. -- 2.7 million. I'm pleased it worked out. What are

:27:54.:27:59.

threshold. -- 2.7 million. I'm most important thing is a majority

:27:59.:27:59.

Tory government would do after most important thing is a majority

:27:59.:28:05.

unencumbered by the Lib Dems? I think produce even more jobs when

:28:05.:28:07.

unemployment goes down, because think produce even more jobs when

:28:07.:28:11.

are the most entrepreneurial place to set up a business. Are more

:28:11.:28:16.

free-market economy? We make our money because we are out global

:28:16.:28:20.

trading economy. That is why it money because we are out global

:28:20.:28:26.

so important that we have to make sure it is easy to trade around

:28:26.:28:30.

so important that we have to make world. One simple example, it is

:28:30.:28:32.

crazy in my view that we have global tariffs that prevent some of the

:28:32.:28:34.

hardest other countries in the tariffs that prevent some of the

:28:34.:28:36.

hardest other countries in the world, in developing parts of the

:28:36.:28:36.

world, from exporting to us and world, in developing parts of the

:28:36.:28:43.

versa. I'm giving you a platform of things that I think we would be

:28:43.:28:47.

versa. I'm giving you a platform of interested in progressing in. It

:28:47.:28:50.

sounds like you are talking about even more Thatcherite, market led

:28:50.:28:52.

agendas. I think that you did a even more Thatcherite, market led

:28:52.:28:59.

amount to show this country that if you want to help the least well

:28:59.:29:02.

amount to show this country that if people in society, and the least

:29:02.:29:05.

well off people in the world, around the globe, the way to do it is to

:29:05.:29:09.

trade, and I think we should have an economy which is much more open

:29:09.:29:14.

trade, and I think we should have an free trade. If there is another

:29:14.:29:15.

trade, and I think we should have an parliament, and the poll suggest

:29:15.:29:19.

there might be, at the moment it is all to play for on both sides, what

:29:19.:29:24.

would your non-negotiable Red Line speak? We are still two years away

:29:24.:29:31.

from that, it is a long way away, but there is a lot we want to lay

:29:31.:29:35.

out. What we are going to be saying to this country is most people want

:29:35.:29:40.

a single party running the country, they think it is clean and clear and

:29:40.:29:44.

you don't end up with negotiation setting out a very clear platform

:29:44.:29:49.

which will be for hard-working people in this country who want

:29:49.:29:52.

which will be for hard-working work hard and get on in life. We

:29:52.:29:55.

would, I think, want to see the welfare state that we have got into,

:29:55.:29:59.

where it is no longer about helping those most in need but became a

:29:59.:30:02.

situation where you are better off not working than in worker, I think

:30:02.:30:08.

we plan to ensure that this is an incredibly fair place to go out

:30:08.:30:11.

we plan to ensure that this is an do a day's work and get the money at

:30:11.:30:14.

the end of the day rather than thinking there is an alternative.

:30:14.:30:17.

you have promised a referendum on UK membership of the EU in 2017, that

:30:17.:30:19.

must be your first Red Line? We membership of the EU in 2017, that

:30:19.:30:27.

clear, we want to see a referendum, a reform European Union. So no

:30:27.:30:35.

poll... ? I should remind viewers that there is an act of Parliament,

:30:35.:30:38.

a bill going through Parliament right now, for a referendum on the

:30:38.:30:46.

EU, which comes back to the House. It is past the report stage and

:30:46.:30:49.

comes back in November and we will be discussing it. The Lib Dems,

:30:49.:30:55.

Labour, will have an opportunity to support what the British people

:30:55.:31:00.

want. Lots may have changed. But it would be a Red Line for any future

:31:00.:31:04.

coalition government question mark we are clear that it is time to

:31:04.:31:13.

coalition government question mark manifesto. What is wrong with yes or

:31:13.:31:16.

no? I cannot write the manifesto for 2015. You are asking me to project

:31:16.:31:21.

beyond that and see in advance the election result and carry out the

:31:22.:31:26.

negotiations that are yet to come. I'm just trying to work out how

:31:26.:31:31.

much... I know you are committed but she won't tell me. Let's move on.

:31:31.:31:41.

Your party has been described as nasty and blinkered. What do you

:31:41.:31:47.

feel when he says that? We are interested in helping the most

:31:47.:31:54.

vulnerable people in society. I think we're doing all that and more.

:31:54.:32:01.

And it is a shame that that language was used because we have made so

:32:01.:32:05.

much progress together. Are you getting to the end of your tether

:32:05.:32:07.

with Mr King? I do not think it getting to the end of your tether

:32:07.:32:22.

terribly helpful for any Cabinet minister to make comments like that.

:32:22.:32:24.

What I would say is that Nick Clegg minister to make comments like that.

:32:24.:32:35.

is the leader of the Lib Dems and himself. Look at these figures on

:32:35.:32:44.

party membership. Why has your party lost half of its members since Mr

:32:45.:32:50.

Cameron became leader? I would like it to be more. But I think the world

:32:50.:32:53.

has changed. People do not rush it to be more. But I think the world

:32:53.:32:58.

and join political parties as they used to. Instead they support you in

:32:58.:33:07.

different ways. If I released the number of people who give to the

:33:07.:33:11.

party in different ways, through donations for example, through

:33:12.:33:18.

friend memberships. If you include that that figure goes back up. But

:33:18.:33:23.

a time when UKIP has doubled. I that that figure goes back up. But

:33:23.:33:35.

not want to to misinterpret what I want to say. It is important to

:33:35.:33:43.

not want to to misinterpret what I members. I think we will have done

:33:43.:33:47.

election. But one statistic of interest, in the last election I had

:33:47.:33:57.

constituency. The difference was I deliver leaflets and knock on the

:33:57.:34:04.

doors. The Conservative party has changed. We now have an army of

:34:05.:34:14.

only if the ball comes to me. Bob Blackman and Sadiq Khan, thanks

:34:14.:00:32.

only if the ball comes to me. Bob much. Leafing through the papers the

:00:32.:00:33.

only if the ball comes to me. Bob last few days has taken me back

:00:33.:00:38.

only if the ball comes to me. Bob my youth. The halcyon days of the

:00:38.:00:39.

2000s, when the warring Blairite and Brownite tribes fought over who

:00:39.:00:44.

Brown's chief spin doctor Damian should run the Labour Party. Gordon

:00:44.:00:46.

Brown's chief spin doctor Damian McBride - McPoison, or worse, to his

:00:46.:00:48.

enemies - has published his memoirs, timed for maximum impact in the

:00:48.:00:57.

enemies - has published his memoirs, of Labour's Conference. They detail

:00:57.:00:58.

how Mr McBride briefed against colleagues, brought down Cabinet

:00:58.:01:02.

Ministers, that is - and fought tooth and nail to promote the man he

:01:02.:01:06.

called "the greatest man he ever met" - Gordon Brown. Joining us

:01:06.:01:13.

called "the greatest man he ever is Tony Blair's former Director

:01:13.:01:14.

called "the greatest man he ever Communications, Alastair Campbell.

:01:14.:01:20.

You are angry about what he has Communications, Alastair Campbell.

:01:20.:01:28.

in this book. Why is that. It is partly the fact that he has done it

:01:28.:01:35.

in a way that will be -- will be damaging to the Labour Party at

:01:35.:01:38.

in a way that will be -- will be time. But also because of the lies

:01:38.:01:41.

that he told at the time that he now communications and trying to hold

:01:41.:01:51.

the thing together, build the team. There was also Charlie Whelan and

:01:51.:01:58.

others. And that job was made more difficult than it should have been.

:01:58.:02:03.

I used to challenge Gordon Brown about it. And there came a stage

:02:03.:02:07.

where I said if Whelan does not about it. And there came a stage

:02:07.:02:15.

I will go. And when Damian McBride was on the scene I was clear that I

:02:15.:02:20.

was not going to have anything to do with him. Because of what he is

:02:20.:02:26.

was not going to have anything to do admitting to, I think they played

:02:26.:02:29.

quite a significant part in pushing Labour out of power. Because the

:02:29.:02:34.

public were being fed by them, this public were being fed by them, this

:02:34.:02:40.

narrative, the whole time. That Blair was useless, Charles Clarke

:02:40.:02:47.

was useless. And I think that we where the government and had very

:02:47.:02:51.

good ministers trying to do big things for the country. I said this

:02:51.:02:58.

morning it was like being a foot tall team were on the pitch you

:02:58.:03:04.

morning it was like being a foot your own players kicking the star

:03:04.:03:07.

players. That is why I am angry about it because I think they helped

:03:07.:03:10.

usher in a conservative government. If we had all stuck together I think

:03:10.:03:17.

did not win the last election, that is a reasonable point. But surely

:03:17.:03:25.

undermine Tony Blair and to promote their man, Gordon Brown. It is

:03:25.:03:30.

inconceivable then that Gordon Brown did not know about it. Well in spite

:03:30.:03:39.

reasonably good relationship with Gordon Brown. I used to challenge

:03:39.:03:42.

him a lot about what Whelan was doing. He would always say, I will

:03:42.:03:50.

sort it out. Another thing that annoys me is this sense put forward

:03:51.:03:57.

by the right wing media that there was this sense of equivalence.

:03:57.:04:03.

People like Steve who I have known for years, there is not a single

:04:03.:04:10.

journalist with the very occasional exception where I lost my temper,

:04:10.:04:14.

who would honestly be able to tell you that I ever breathed against

:04:14.:04:20.

ministers. That was my golden rule. People say you were the forerunner.

:04:20.:04:28.

I know it was not the case. One People say you were the forerunner.

:04:28.:04:41.

the reasons why I do despise what they did, the whole spin thing which

:04:41.:04:52.

associated with, once I wrote a actually within the government,

:04:52.:05:02.

associated with, once I wrote a had a principle of maximum openness

:05:02.:05:03.

and trust. Anyone could come to had a principle of maximum openness

:05:03.:05:08.

morning meetings on condition that what was discussed their state as

:05:08.:05:14.

part of the team. I had to say to Gordon Brown, your people are not

:05:14.:05:16.

coming. Because I knew where it Gordon Brown, your people are not

:05:16.:05:22.

coming from. Did you know that the time but Charles Clarke and others

:05:22.:05:26.

were effectively being destroyed from within the Labour government? I

:05:26.:05:31.

certainly knew that they thought that. I did know journalists telling

:05:31.:05:39.

me that that was what was happening. Ultimately, this is why I never

:05:39.:05:50.

me that that was what was happening. leaders, it is ultimately up to

:05:50.:05:57.

me that that was what was happening. litre. Possibly in a different age

:05:57.:06:01.

Gordon Brown would have been an amazing Prime Minister. He was a

:06:01.:06:04.

great chancellor. But he had a flaw, this need for truly horrible

:06:04.:06:11.

people to be around him doing truly horrible things in politics and

:06:11.:06:14.

giving him and the Labour Party horrible things in politics and

:06:14.:06:18.

politics a bad name. That is why I'm still angry about Damian McBride.

:06:18.:06:28.

What do you make of it? The current administration is a contrast. We

:06:28.:06:32.

have rival factions occupying the same offices but they still get

:06:32.:06:38.

have rival factions occupying the The only time they have a row is

:06:38.:06:41.

when something really big happens. But with that one party in Downing

:06:41.:06:44.

Street there was fighting the whole time. Did Ed Balls know about this.

:06:44.:06:50.

I would assume so. I spoke with time. Did Ed Balls know about this.

:06:50.:07:03.

about it at the time. He told me at the time that he had spoken about it

:07:03.:07:13.

with Gordon Brown. So I think there was a concern from within that camp

:07:13.:07:18.

about some of these activities at equivalence, in life you expect

:07:18.:07:28.

about some of these activities at see that there is full on both

:07:28.:07:28.

sides. But I do not buy it in this see that there is full on both

:07:28.:07:34.

case. If you look at the testimonies see that there is full on both

:07:34.:07:37.

over the years, what you can surmise about the character of Gordon Brown

:07:37.:07:42.

and of Tony Blair, it was ultimately driven by Gordon Brown and the

:07:42.:07:48.

people around him. The Blairites did things but they did then by way

:07:48.:07:52.

people around him. The Blairites did retaliation rather than initiation.

:07:52.:07:56.

The one-time when I did lose it retaliation rather than initiation.

:07:56.:08:01.

the whole psychological force thing. That came at the end of a period

:08:01.:08:03.

when we were relentlessly being That came at the end of a period

:08:03.:08:09.

in by Charlie Whelan and his gang of journalists. I would go along to

:08:09.:08:12.

colleagues would be there and I journalists. I would go along to

:08:12.:08:20.

had to sit there and not hit back. Saying I cannot believe Gordon Brown

:08:20.:08:25.

would have anything to do with this. You get to the stage where your

:08:25.:08:28.

would have anything to do with this. credibility is on the line. Coming

:08:28.:08:29.

promotion of alcohol awareness. credibility is on the line. Coming

:08:29.:08:40.

before that the Labour Party, you never had to deal with this in

:08:40.:08:44.

opposition because you were pretty far ahead in the polls by midterm.

:08:44.:08:48.

This time that is not the case. far ahead in the polls by midterm.

:08:48.:08:57.

is surprisingly narrow. What advice would you give to Ed Miliband? To

:08:57.:09:04.

keep his head out side of this bubble but it's all about him. And

:09:04.:09:09.

to use this week to really speak to the British people about himself,

:09:09.:09:16.

particularly the kind of policy agenda he is shaping for the future.

:09:16.:09:23.

And start to heart -- start to hit the Tories hard. They're not pop,

:09:23.:09:28.

they're not competent. They're screwing up the health service.

:09:28.:09:34.

they're not competent. They're yet they are neck and neck. I would

:09:34.:09:36.

say that the whole Shadow Cabinet understand that you win elections by

:09:36.:09:43.

wanting to win elections every minute of every day. There is too

:09:43.:09:50.

much complacency. A small lead now you have to grow that. You do that

:09:50.:09:55.

with energy and conviction and policy. Tony Blair had a huge pole

:09:55.:10:04.

bead in the run-up to 1997. We were winning seat where we had not even

:10:04.:10:11.

campaigned and he was saying, why celebrate because we have not won

:10:11.:10:13.

yet. You are promoting your alcohol celebrate because we have not won

:10:13.:10:17.

yet. You are promoting your alcohol awareness campaign. Perhaps the

:10:17.:10:19.

party conference is not the best place to do that! That is one reason

:10:19.:10:28.

why I am doing that. I'm hosting probably the only alcohol free

:10:28.:10:34.

reception of the week! There is nothing worse than a convert, I

:10:34.:10:41.

reception of the week! There is that. But I travel a lot. I travel

:10:41.:10:47.

around the world and Britain has a something we should be ashamed of.

:10:47.:10:57.

Why is that, is it cultural? I think it is historical. But I dig David

:10:57.:11:04.

Cameron was right to go for minimum unit pricing and wrong to do a

:11:04.:11:16.

reversal. 6% of alcoholics get treatment. I expect that drugs are a

:11:16.:11:19.

problem but we spent £2 billion treatment. I expect that drugs are a

:11:19.:11:26.

100,000 problem drug takers and treatment. I expect that drugs are a

:11:26.:11:28.

million on 1.6 million problem have written this book about a young

:11:28.:11:41.

million on 1.6 million problem alcoholic, a teenager. And it is in

:11:41.:11:45.

the first person. People could think you are writing about yourself.

:11:45.:11:48.

did you choose a teenage girl? Well did you choose a teenage girl? Well

:11:48.:11:56.

partly, I dedicated this to the Southampton. He told me when he

:11:56.:12:06.

started his career that his patience was split nine to one, men to women

:12:06.:12:13.

and it is now 50 - 50. They're getting younger and younger. One

:12:13.:12:21.

doctor looking after me said I will take you around this hospital and

:12:21.:12:27.

the problems of alcohol are in every single ward. Not just accident and

:12:27.:12:33.

emergency. I watched the foot all, advertisements for gambling and

:12:33.:12:41.

advertising. How have we allowed this to happen, ? We are just awash

:12:41.:12:52.

with it. What we did I think on Availability and price either too

:12:52.:12:59.

means by which you can bring this down. And the country that has had

:12:59.:13:05.

the biggest success on this is Russia, bizarrely. Thank you very

:13:05.:13:17.

much for that. That's all for today. Thanks to all our guests. I'll be

:13:17.:13:22.

with live coverage of Labour Party Conference, including the speech

:13:23.:13:26.

from the man who wants to be the next Chancellor, Ed Balls. Remember

:13:26.:13:27.

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