10/11/2013 Sunday Politics North East and Cumbria


10/11/2013

Andrew Neil and Richard Moss with the latest political news. With deputy Labour leader Harriet Harman, UKIP leader Nigel Farage, and a look at calls to remove the Sun's Page 3.


Similar Content

Browse content similar to 10/11/2013. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!

Transcript


LineFromTo

Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Ed Miliband's on

:00:35.:00:41.

the war path over pay day loans your energy bill and what he calls

:00:42.:00:43.

the war path over pay day loans the bedroom tax. His spinners say

:00:44.:00:47.

he's resurgent though the polls don't show it. We'll be talking to

:00:48.:00:52.

his right hand woman, Labour's Deputy Leader, Harriet Harman. From

:00:53.:00:56.

resurgent to insurgent. Nigel Farage won an award this week for being a

:00:57.:00:59.

political insurgent. We'll be talking to the UKIP leader. And

:01:00.:01:08.

Harriet hates, hates, hates page three. She wants rid of it. But what

:01:09.:01:10.

do you think? We sent Adam out with do you think? We sent Adam out with

:01:11.:01:13.

some balls. Stay. It is good fun Welcome to your lunchtime Look

:01:14.:01:21.

North. In the headlines this Welcome to your lunchtime Look

:01:22.:01:33.

row over the super sewer rumbles on. And with me, fresh from their

:01:34.:01:46.

success at yesterday's Star Wars auditions, Darth Vader. Obi Wan

:01:47.:01:52.

Kenobi and R2D2. Congratulations on your new jobs. We'll miss you. Nick

:01:53.:01:57.

Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. First, the talks with Iran in

:01:58.:02:01.

Geneva. They ended last night without agreement despite hopes of a

:02:02.:02:11.

breakthrough. America and its allies didn't think Iran was prepared to go

:02:12.:02:14.

far enough to freeze its nuclear programme. But some progress has

:02:15.:02:17.

been made and there's to be another meeting in ten days' time, though at

:02:18.:02:20.

a lower level. The Foreign Secretary, William Hague, had this

:02:21.:02:23.

to say a little earlier. On the question of, or will it happen in

:02:24.:02:28.

the next few weeks? There is a good chance of that. We will be trying

:02:29.:02:36.

again on 20th, 21st of November and negotiators will be trying again. We

:02:37.:02:44.

will keep an enormous amount of energy and persistence behind

:02:45.:02:48.

solving this. Will that be a deal which will please everyone? No, it

:02:49.:02:55.

will not. Compromises will need to be made. I had discussions with

:02:56.:03:00.

Israeli ministers yesterday and put the case for the kind of deal we are

:03:01.:03:03.

looking the case for the kind of deal we are

:03:04.:03:08.

interests of the whole world, including

:03:09.:03:14.

interests of the whole world, the world, to reach a diplomatic

:03:15.:03:15.

agreement we can be confident in in this issue. This otherwise will

:03:16.:03:22.

threaten the world with nuclear proliferation and conflict in the

:03:23.:03:26.

future. The interesting thing about this is that it seems

:03:27.:03:30.

future. The interesting thing about prepared to go far enough over the

:03:31.:03:36.

Iraq heavy water plutonium reactor it is building. The people who took

:03:37.:03:49.

the toughest line - the French. France has always had a pretty tough

:03:50.:03:56.

line on Iran. They see it as a disruptive influence in Lebanon I

:03:57.:04:00.

am reasonably optimistic a deal will be done later this month when the

:04:01.:04:03.

talks reconvene. Western be done later this month when the

:04:04.:04:07.

sanctions have had such an impact on Iran domestic league. They have

:04:08.:04:15.

pushed inflation up to 40%. Dashes-macro domestically. The new

:04:16.:04:19.

president had a campaign pledge Dashes-macro domestically. The new

:04:20.:04:26.

saying, I will deal with sanctions. I actually think, by the end of this

:04:27.:04:31.

year, we will see progress in these talks. Should we be optimistic? The

:04:32.:04:39.

next round of talks will be at official level. The place to watch

:04:40.:04:45.

will be Israel. The language which has been coming out of there is

:04:46.:04:50.

still incredibly angry, incredibly defensive. They do not want a deal

:04:51.:04:53.

at all. Presumably John Kerry has to defensive. They do not want a deal

:04:54.:05:03.

go away and tried to get Israel to be quiet about it, even if they

:05:04.:05:12.

cannot be happy about it. They cannot agree to a deal which allows

:05:13.:05:18.

cannot be happy about it. They the Iraq reactor with plutonium

:05:19.:05:24.

heavy water. You do not need that with a peaceful nuclear power

:05:25.:05:26.

programme will stop that is why the with a peaceful nuclear power

:05:27.:05:33.

Israelis are so nervous. If there is an international deal, Israel could

:05:34.:05:41.

still bomb that but it would be impossible. The French tactics are

:05:42.:05:48.

interesting. It says the French blocked it in part because they are

:05:49.:05:53.

trying to carry favour with Israel but also the Gulf Arab states, who

:05:54.:05:58.

are really nervous about and Iranians nuclear capability. Who is

:05:59.:06:04.

that? Saudi Arabia. Newsnight had a story saying that Pakistan is

:06:05.:06:10.

prepared to provide them with nuclear weapons. You are right about

:06:11.:06:18.

Saudi Arabia. They are much more against this deal than Israel. Who

:06:19.:06:24.

is Herman van Rompuy's favourite MEP? It is probably not Nigel

:06:25.:06:28.

Farage. He plummeted to the bottom of the EU president's Christmas card

:06:29.:06:31.

list after comparing him to a bank clerk with the charisma of a damp

:06:32.:06:35.

rag. And he's been at it again this week. Have a look. Today is November

:06:36.:06:44.

the 5th, a big celebration festival day in England. That was an attempt

:06:45.:06:49.

to blow up the Houses of Parliament with dynamite and destroy the

:06:50.:06:52.

Constitution. You have taken the Dahl, technocratic approach to all

:06:53.:06:59.

of these things. What you and your colleagues save time and again you

:07:00.:07:03.

talk about initiatives and what you are going to do about unemployment.

:07:04.:07:08.

The reality is nothing in this union is getting better. The accounts have

:07:09.:07:15.

not been signed off for 18 years. I am now told it is 19 and you are

:07:16.:07:20.

doing your best to tone down any criticism. Whatever growth figures

:07:21.:07:24.

you may have, they are anaemic. Youth unemployment in the

:07:25.:07:29.

Mediterranean is over 50% in several states. You will notice there is a

:07:30.:07:34.

rise in opposition dashed real opposition. Much of it ugly

:07:35.:07:39.

opposition, not stuff that I would want to link hands with. And Nigel

:07:40.:07:46.

Farage joins me now. Let me put to you what the editor of the Sun had

:07:47.:07:55.

to say. He says, UKIP will peak at the European election and then it

:07:56.:07:59.

will begin to get marginalised as we get closer to 2015 because there is

:08:00.:08:04.

now that clear blue water between Labour and the Tories. What do you

:08:05.:08:11.

say to that? There may be layered blue water on energy pricing but on

:08:12.:08:15.

Eastern Europe, there is no difference at all. When Ed Miliband

:08:16.:08:20.

offers the referendum to match Cameron, even that argument on

:08:21.:08:24.

Europe will be gone. The one thing that will keep UKIP strong, heading

:08:25.:08:30.

towards 2015, is if people think in some constituencies we can win. I

:08:31.:08:34.

cannot sit here right now and say that will be the case. If we get

:08:35.:08:39.

over the hurdle of the European elections clearly, I think there

:08:40.:08:44.

will be grounds to say that UKIP can win seats in Westminster. You are

:08:45.:08:51.

going to run? Without a shadow of a doubt. I do not know which

:08:52.:08:57.

constituency. The welcome I got in Edinburgh was not that friendly

:08:58.:09:01.

Edinburgh is not everything in Scotland. I think we have a

:09:02.:09:06.

realistic chance of winning those elections. If we do that, we will

:09:07.:09:12.

have the momentum behind us. You might be the biggest party after the

:09:13.:09:17.

May elections. The National front is likely to do very well in France as

:09:18.:09:22.

well. They have won the crucial by-election in the South of France.

:09:23.:09:28.

Have you talked about joining full season in Parliament? The leader has

:09:29.:09:37.

tried to take the movement into a different direction than her father.

:09:38.:09:42.

The man she beat, to become leader, actually attended the BNP

:09:43.:09:47.

conference. The problem she has with her party and we have with her party

:09:48.:09:52.

is that anti-Semitism is too deep and we will not be doing a deal with

:09:53.:09:57.

the French national government. You can guarantee you will not be

:09:58.:10:04.

joining such groups. I can guarantee that. Let's move on to Europe. Let's

:10:05.:10:10.

accept that the pro-Europeans exaggerate the loss of jobs that

:10:11.:10:15.

would follow the departure of Britain from the UK. Is there no

:10:16.:10:23.

risk of jobs whatsoever? No risk whatsoever. There is no risk at all.

:10:24.:10:31.

There have been some weak and lazy arguments put around about this We

:10:32.:10:38.

will go on doing business - go on doing trade with Europe. We will

:10:39.:10:44.

have increased opportunities to do trade deals with the rest of the

:10:45.:10:49.

world and they will create jobs The head of Nissan, the head of Hitachi

:10:50.:10:58.

and CBI many other voices in British business, when they all expressed

:10:59.:11:05.

concern about the potential loss of jobs and incoming investment, we

:11:06.:11:10.

should just ignore them. With Nissan, the BBC News is making this

:11:11.:11:20.

a huge story. The boss did not say what was reported. He said there was

:11:21.:11:26.

a potential danger to his future investment. They have already made

:11:27.:11:32.

the investments. They have built the plant in Sunderland, which they say

:11:33.:11:36.

is operating well. We should be careful of what bosses of big

:11:37.:11:40.

businesses say. This man said they may have two leaves Sunderland if we

:11:41.:11:45.

did not join the euro. I do not take that seriously. As for the CBI, they

:11:46.:11:49.

wanted us to join the euro and now they do not. Even within the CBI,

:11:50.:11:55.

there is a significant minority saying, we do not agree with what

:11:56.:12:00.

the CBI director-general is saying. The former boss of the organisation

:12:01.:12:04.

is saying we need a referendum and we need a referendum soon. It

:12:05.:12:10.

depends on the renegotiation. There is not the uniformity. What we are

:12:11.:12:16.

beginning to see in the world, is, manufacturing and small businesses

:12:17.:12:21.

are a lot more voices saying, the costs of membership outweigh any

:12:22.:12:25.

potential benefit. If you look at the polls, if Mr Cameron does

:12:26.:12:35.

repatriate some powers and he joins with Labour, the Lib Dems, the

:12:36.:12:41.

Nationalists in Scotland and Wales, most of business, all of the unions

:12:42.:12:45.

to say we should stay in, you are going to lose, aren't you? In 1 75,

:12:46.:12:55.

the circumstances were exactly the same. Mr Wilson promised a

:12:56.:12:58.

renegotiation and he got very little. The establishment gathered

:12:59.:13:02.

around him and they voted for us to stay in. I do not think that will

:13:03.:13:08.

happen now. The scales have fallen. We do not want to be governed by

:13:09.:13:15.

Herman Van Rompuy and these people. These people are Eurosceptic but

:13:16.:13:18.

they do not seem to feel strongly enough about it that they are going

:13:19.:13:22.

to defy all the major parties they vote for, companies that employ

:13:23.:13:29.

them, unions they are members of. I am absolutely confident there will

:13:30.:13:33.

be a lot voices in business saying, we need to take this opportunity to

:13:34.:13:37.

break free, give ourselves a chance of a low regulation lowball trader.

:13:38.:13:50.

-- global trade. In 1970 53 small publications said to vote yes. I am

:13:51.:14:06.

not contemplating losing. The most important thing is to get the

:14:07.:14:11.

referendum. If UKIP is not strong, there will not be a referendum.

:14:12.:14:17.

Earlier in the year, your party issued a leaflet about the remaining

:14:18.:14:21.

sample parents being able to come to this country. The EU will allow 29

:14:22.:14:27.

million Bulgarians and remaining is to come to the UK. That is

:14:28.:14:37.

technically correct but we both know that is not the case. It is an open

:14:38.:14:49.

door to these people. Why take the risk? By make out there are 29

:14:50.:15:00.

million people? I stand by that verdict. It is an open door. 29

:15:01.:15:10.

million are not going to come. They can if they want. Also 29 million

:15:11.:15:16.

people from France can come. After these countries have joined, we will

:15:17.:15:21.

do another leaflet saying that Mr Cameron wants to open the door to 70

:15:22.:15:28.

million people from Turkey. That is scaremongering. I would not say

:15:29.:15:35.

that. We have a million young British workers between 16 and 4

:15:36.:15:40.

without work. A lot of them want work and we do not need another

:15:41.:15:44.

massive oversupply in the unskilled labour market. Why did you have such

:15:45.:15:49.

a bad time on question Time this week? The folk that did not buy your

:15:50.:15:59.

anti-immigration stick. Do you think that group of people in the room was

:16:00.:16:02.

representative of the voters of Boston? What would make you think it

:16:03.:16:07.

was unrepresentative? When the county council elections took place

:16:08.:16:11.

this year in Boston, of the seven seats, UKIP won five and almost won

:16:12.:16:15.

the other two. I don't think that audience reflected that, but that

:16:16.:16:19.

doesn't matter. How an audience is put together, how a panel is put

:16:20.:16:23.

together, on one programme, it doesn't mean much at all. It shows

:16:24.:16:28.

that your anti-immigrant measure doesn't fly as easily as you hoped

:16:29.:16:32.

it would? The opinion polls which will be launched on Monday that we

:16:33.:16:35.

are conducting and nearing completion, they show two things.

:16:36.:16:39.

Firstly, an astonishing number of people who think it's irresponsible

:16:40.:16:44.

and wrong to open the doer to Romania and Bulgaria, secondly and

:16:45.:16:49.

crucially, a number of people whose vote in the European elections and

:16:50.:16:52.

subsequent general elections may be determined by the immigration

:16:53.:16:54.

issues. This does matter. It would be the perfect run group the

:16:55.:16:58.

European elections in May for you if a lot of Bulgarians and remainians

:16:59.:17:03.

flooded in. You would like that to happen? I think it will happen.

:17:04.:17:06.

Whether I like it or not, it will happen. You think it will be good

:17:07.:17:11.

for you, it will stir things up If you say to people in poor countries,

:17:12.:17:15.

you can come here, get a job, have a safety net of a benefits system

:17:16.:17:21.

claim child allowance for your kids in Bucharest, people will come You

:17:22.:17:24.

are ready with the arguments already? You will be disappointed if

:17:25.:17:30.

only ten turn up? Whether lots come or not we should. Taking the risk

:17:31.:17:33.

and yes, we are going to make it a major issue in the European

:17:34.:17:36.

election. Let's leave it there. Thank you very much, Nigel Farage.

:17:37.:17:40.

The summer of 2013 was not good for Ed Miliband, with questions over his

:17:41.:17:44.

leadership, low ratings and complaints about no policies. He

:17:45.:17:47.

bounced back with a vengeance at the Labour Conference in September,

:17:48.:17:50.

delivering a speech which this week won the spectator political speech

:17:51.:17:55.

of the year aword. In that speech he focussed on the cost-of-living and

:17:56.:17:58.

promised a temporary freeze on energy prices. Even said this. The

:17:59.:18:03.

next election isn't just going to be about policy. It's going to be about

:18:04.:18:10.

how we lead and the character we show. I've got a message for the

:18:11.:18:17.

Tories today. If they want to have a debate, about leadership and

:18:18.:18:26.

character, be my guest And if you want to know the difference between

:18:27.:18:30.

me and David Cameron, here is an easy way to remember it. When it was

:18:31.:18:35.

Murdoch v the McCanns, he took the side of Murdoch. When it was the

:18:36.:18:39.

tobacco lobby versus the cancer charities, he took the side of the

:18:40.:18:44.

tobacco lobby. When the millionaires wanted a tax cut as people pay the

:18:45.:18:49.

bedroom tax, he took the side of the millionaires. A come to think of it,

:18:50.:18:52.

here is an easier way to remember it. David Cameron was a Prime

:18:53.:18:55.

Minister who introduced the bedroom tax. I'll be the Prime Minister who

:18:56.:19:05.

repeals the bedroom tax There we go, that will go down with the party

:19:06.:19:11.

faithful on Tuesday. There will be a debate on the bedroom tax. Labour's

:19:12.:19:16.

Deputy Leader, Harriet Harman, joints me now. Let's begin with the

:19:17.:19:24.

bedroom tax or bedroom subsidy. Nearly 11% of people who've come off

:19:25.:19:30.

Housing Benefits all together after their spare room subsidy was

:19:31.:19:33.

stopped, isn't that proof that reform was necessary? No. I think

:19:34.:19:38.

that the whole way that the bet room tax has been attempted to be

:19:39.:19:42.

justified is completely wrong. What it's said is that it will actually

:19:43.:19:46.

help take people off the waiting lists by putting them into homes

:19:47.:19:50.

that have been vacated by people who've downsized by being

:19:51.:19:55.

incentivised by the bedroom tax so basically if you are a council

:19:56.:19:59.

tenant or Housing Association tenant in a property with spare bedrooms,

:20:00.:20:03.

then because the penalty is imposed, you will move to a smaller property.

:20:04.:20:07.

That is the justification for it. But actually, something like 96 of

:20:08.:20:11.

the people who're going to be hit by the bedroom tax, there isn't a

:20:12.:20:14.

smaller property for them to move into. I understand that. Therefore

:20:15.:20:18.

they are, like the people in my constituency, if they have got one

:20:19.:20:22.

spare bedroom, they are hit by 700 a year extra to pay and that is

:20:23.:20:28.

completely unfair As a consequence of people losing the subsidy for

:20:29.:20:33.

their spare room, they have decided to go out and get work and not

:20:34.:20:37.

depend on Housing Benefit at all? 11% of them. What's wrong with that?

:20:38.:20:42.

Well, they are going to review the way 2 the bedroom tax is working.

:20:43.:20:47.

What is wrong with that? But that's not working. That's the result of

:20:48.:20:52.

Freedom of Information, 141 councils provided the figures, 25,000 who've

:20:53.:20:56.

come off benefits, of the 233,0 0 affected, it's about 11%. These

:20:57.:21:00.

people were clearly able to get a job was having the Housing Benefit

:21:01.:21:04.

in the first place? But of course the people who're on the benefits

:21:05.:21:09.

who're not in work are always looking for work and many of them

:21:10.:21:12.

will find work which is a good thing, but for those who don't find

:21:13.:21:17.

work, or who find work where it s low-paid and need help with their

:21:18.:21:21.

rent, it's wrong to penalise them on the basis of the fact that their

:21:22.:21:25.

family might have grown up and moved away and so you have either got to

:21:26.:21:29.

move out of your home, away from your family and your neighbourhood,

:21:30.:21:33.

or you've got to stay where you are and, despite the fact that you are

:21:34.:21:37.

low-paid or unemployed, you have got to find an extra ?700 a year because

:21:38.:21:42.

of your rent. So it's very unfair The Government that was

:21:43.:21:45.

commissioning independent research on the impact of this work change

:21:46.:21:50.

and welfare policy, particularly on the impact on the most vulnerable,

:21:51.:21:52.

some of which you have been talking about there, shouldn't they have

:21:53.:21:56.

waited until you have got the independent research, that

:21:57.:21:59.

independent investigation before determining your policy? No. In

:22:00.:22:02.

fact, the Government should have waited until they'd have done their

:22:03.:22:07.

independent research before they bought into effect something and

:22:08.:22:10.

imposed it on people in a way which is really unfair. They could have

:22:11.:22:16.

known. Why didn't you wait? What they could have done is, they could

:22:17.:22:20.

have asked councils, are people going to be able to Manifest into

:22:21.:22:24.

smaller homes if we impose the bedroom tax and the answer from

:22:25.:22:28.

councils and Housing Associations would have been no, they can't move

:22:29.:22:31.

into smaller homes because which haven't got them there. They should

:22:32.:22:35.

have done the evaluation before they introduced the policy. We are

:22:36.:22:38.

absolutely clear and you can see the evidence, people are falling into

:22:39.:22:43.

rent arrears. Many people, it's a terrifying thing to find that you

:22:44.:22:46.

can't pay your rent, and some of the people go to payday loan companies

:22:47.:22:51.

to get loans to pay their rent. It is very, very unfair. The

:22:52.:22:55.

justification for it, which is people will move, is completely

:22:56.:22:59.

bogus. There aren't places for them to go. On the wider issue of welfare

:23:00.:23:05.

reform, a call for the TUC showed that voters support the Government's

:23:06.:23:08.

welfare reforms, including a majority of Labour voters. Why are

:23:09.:23:13.

you so out of touch on welfare issues, even with your own

:23:14.:23:16.

supporters? Nobody wants to see people who could be in a job

:23:17.:23:20.

actually living at the taxpayers' expense. That's why we have said

:23:21.:23:24.

that we'll introduce a compulsory jobs guarantee, so that if you are a

:23:25.:23:28.

young person who's been unemployed for a year, you will have to take a

:23:29.:23:32.

job absolutely have to take a job, and if you have been unemployed as

:23:33.:23:36.

somebody over 25, there'll be a compulsory thing after two years of

:23:37.:23:41.

unemployment. So if you have been on welfare two years? So the main issue

:23:42.:23:45.

about the welfare bill actually is people who're in retirement who need

:23:46.:23:49.

support. We have said for the richest pensioners, they shouldn't

:23:50.:23:53.

have to pay their winter fuel allowance. My point wasn't abouts

:23:54.:23:58.

the sub stance, it's about how you don't reflect public opinion --

:23:59.:24:02.

substance. The Parliamentary aid said the political backlog of

:24:03.:24:07.

benefits and social security is "not yet one that we have won. Labour

:24:08.:24:12.

must accept that they are not convincing on these matters,". Well,

:24:13.:24:17.

redo have to convince people and explain the policies we have got and

:24:18.:24:21.

the view we take. So, for example, for pensioners, who're well off we

:24:22.:24:24.

are saying they don't need the Winter Fuel Payment that. 's me

:24:25.:24:27.

saying to you and us saying to people in this country, we do think

:24:28.:24:32.

that there should be that tightening. For young people, who've

:24:33.:24:36.

been unemployed, they should be offered jobs but they've got to take

:24:37.:24:39.

them. So yes, we have to make our case. OK. The energy freeze which we

:24:40.:24:45.

showed there, on the speech, as popular. The living wage proseles

:24:46.:24:49.

have been going down well as well. Why is Labour's lead oaf the

:24:50.:24:53.

Conservatives being cut to 6% in the latest polls? Ed Miliband's own

:24:54.:24:57.

personal approval rating's gotten worse. Why is that? I'm not going to

:24:58.:25:02.

disdues ins and outs of weekly opinion polls with you or anybody

:25:03.:25:06.

else because I'm not a political commentator, but let me say to you

:25:07.:25:10.

the facts of what's happened since Ed Miliband's been leader of the

:25:11.:25:15.

Labour Party. We have got 1,950 New Labour councillors, all of those...

:25:16.:25:21.

But you're... All those who've won their seats against the

:25:22.:25:23.

Conservatives or the Liberal Democrats and no, Andrew you don't

:25:24.:25:28.

always get that in opposition. In 1997 after Tony Blair was elected,

:25:29.:25:33.

the Tories carried on losing council seats. Exceptional circumstances and

:25:34.:25:40.

these days Mr Blair was 25% ahead in the polls. You were six. The economy

:25:41.:25:45.

grew at an annual rate of 3% in the third quarter just gone. Everybody,

:25:46.:25:49.

private and public forecasters now saying that Britain in this coming

:25:50.:25:52.

year will grow faster than France, Italy, Spain, even Germany will grow

:25:53.:25:57.

faster. Your poll ratings are average when the economy was

:25:58.:26:00.

flatlining, what happens to them when the economy starts to grow

:26:01.:26:04.

Well, I've just said to you, I'm not a political commentator or a pundit

:26:05.:26:10.

on opinion polls. We are putting policies forward and we are holding

:26:11.:26:12.

the Government to account for what they are doing and we think that

:26:13.:26:17.

what they did opt economy pulled the plugs from the economy, delayed the

:26:18.:26:20.

recovery, made it stagnate and we have had three years lost growth. I

:26:21.:26:24.

understand that, but it's now starting to grow. Indeed. If you are

:26:25.:26:31.

no political commentator, let me ask you this, you anticipated the

:26:32.:26:34.

growth, so you switched your line to no growth to this is growth and

:26:35.:26:37.

living standards are rising. If the economy does grow up towards 3% next

:26:38.:26:42.

year, I would suggest that living standards probably will start to

:26:43.:26:45.

rise with that amount of growth What do you do then? We have not

:26:46.:26:49.

switched our line because the economy started to grow. All the way

:26:50.:26:52.

along, we said the economy will recover, but it's been delayed and

:26:53.:26:57.

we have had stagnation for far too long because of the economic

:26:58.:27:01.

policies. We have been absolutely right to understand the concerns

:27:02.:27:05.

people have and recognise that they are struggling with the

:27:06.:27:09.

cost-of-living. Sure. And we are right to do that. What kind of

:27:10.:27:13.

living standards stuck to rise next year? -- start to rise next year. I

:27:14.:27:19.

hope they will. For 40 months of David Cameron's Prime Ministership,

:27:20.:27:23.

for 39 of those, wages have risen slower than prices, so people are

:27:24.:27:27.

worse off. I understand that. You will know that the broader

:27:28.:27:31.

measurement, real household disposable income doesn't show that

:27:32.:27:34.

decline because it takes everything into account. Going around the

:27:35.:27:39.

country, people feel it. They say where's the recovery for me. Living

:27:40.:27:45.

standards now start to rise? If that happens, what is your next line

:27:46.:27:50.

There is a set of arguments about living standards, the National

:27:51.:27:52.

Health Service, about the problems that there is in A, which caused

:27:53.:27:58.

-- are caused by the organisation. I can put forward other lines. All

:27:59.:28:04.

right. Let me ask you one other question If no newspapers have

:28:05.:28:09.

signed up to the Government-backed Labour-backed Royal Charter on press

:28:10.:28:12.

regular lace by 2015 and it looks like the way things are going none

:28:13.:28:18.

will have, if you are in power, will a Labour Government legislate to

:28:19.:28:21.

make them? They don't have to sign up to the Royal Charter, that's not

:28:22.:28:26.

the system. What the Royal Charter does is create a recogniser and

:28:27.:28:29.

basically says it's for the newspapers to set up their own

:28:30.:28:32.

regulator. They are doing that. My question is... Let me finish. If

:28:33.:28:37.

they decide to have nothing to do with the Royal Charter that was

:28:38.:28:41.

decided in Miliband's office in the wee small hours, will you pass

:28:42.:28:45.

legislation to make them? The newspapers are currently setting up

:28:46.:28:48.

what they call... I know that, Harriet Harman. Just let me finish.

:28:49.:28:53.

OK. Because the newspapers are setting up the independent Press

:28:54.:28:57.

Standards Organisation. Right. If it is independent, as they say it is,

:28:58.:29:01.

then the recogniser will simply say, we recognise that this is

:29:02.:29:05.

independent and the whole point is that, in the past when there's been

:29:06.:29:09.

skaen deals a tend press have really turned people's lives upside down

:29:10.:29:12.

and the press have said OK we'll sort things out, leave it to us

:29:13.:29:17.

then they have sorted things out but a few years later they have slipped

:29:18.:29:21.

back, all this recogniser will do is check it once every three years and

:29:22.:29:25.

say yes, you have got an independent system and it's remained independent

:29:26.:29:29.

and therefore that is the guarantee things won't slip back. Very

:29:30.:29:32.

interesting. Thank you for that That's really interesting that if

:29:33.:29:37.

they get their act right, you won't force the alternative on them. We

:29:38.:29:42.

want the system as set forward by Leveson which is not statute and

:29:43.:29:47.

direct regulation. I want to stick with the press because I want to

:29:48.:29:52.

ask, is this a British institution or an out-of-date image for a by

:29:53.:29:56.

gone age. The Sun's Page 3 has been dividing the nation since it first

:29:57.:30:01.

appeared way back in 1970. That s 43 years ago. Harriet Harman's called

:30:02.:30:06.

for it to be removed, so we sent Adam out to ask whether the topless

:30:07.:30:23.

photographs should stay or go. We have asked people if page three

:30:24.:30:35.

should stay or go. Page three. What do you think? Nothing wrong with it

:30:36.:30:45.

at all. I think it is cheap and exploits women. It is a family

:30:46.:30:56.

newspaper. Should it stay or go Go. I will look like the bad guy. It

:30:57.:31:07.

should go. You have changed your mind. It is free choice. Girls do

:31:08.:31:16.

not have to be photographed. Old men get the paper just for that. Know

:31:17.:31:30.

when your age does that? Not really. Dashes-macro know what your age

:31:31.:31:34.

Page three girls, should they stay or go? I am not bothered. There are

:31:35.:31:45.

other ways of getting noticed. Page three of the Sun newspaper every

:31:46.:31:49.

day, there is a woman with no top on. We got rid of that about 40

:31:50.:31:58.

years ago in Australia. I am not in favour of censorship. It has been

:31:59.:32:05.

long enough. It can stay there. What is wrong with it? We want to

:32:06.:32:11.

encourage children to read the newspapers. I do not want my

:32:12.:32:17.

children to look at that. It is degrading. Do you think we will see

:32:18.:32:24.

the day when they get rid of it Yes, I do. I am wondering if I can

:32:25.:32:29.

turn this into some kind of a shelter. It is tipping it down. I

:32:30.:32:43.

think the council should do something about their car parks

:32:44.:32:49.

Mother nature, the human body. It should stay. Is some people like it,

:32:50.:32:57.

that is fine. I have nothing against it. You know what has surprised me,

:32:58.:33:04.

lots of women saying it should stay. Maybe they are seeing it as

:33:05.:33:11.

empowering. As I have a baby daughter in there, I am happy to see

:33:12.:33:19.

it go. Imagine my grandad opening up his paper and they're being my bats!

:33:20.:33:28.

It should go. There is nothing wrong with it. He wants it to go. What

:33:29.:33:36.

about people who think that page three should be banned? Idiots. Do

:33:37.:33:44.

you know a girl called Lacey, aged 22, from Bedford? Good luck to her.

:33:45.:33:53.

I do not know her as a person that I have heard she is nice. What about

:33:54.:34:00.

her decision to be on page three? Nothing to lose. Do you think she

:34:01.:34:09.

has made Bedford proud? That is not hard. What have we learned? More

:34:10.:34:15.

people want page three to stay down for it to go. Most people do not

:34:16.:34:25.

really seem to care, do they? You have heard a range of views. I am

:34:26.:34:31.

not arguing it should be banned I have not argued for it to be banned

:34:32.:34:37.

but I have disapproved of it since the 1970s. You do not think it

:34:38.:34:50.

should be banned? I do not think there should be dictating content

:34:51.:34:51.

but I do think, if you arrive from there should be dictating content

:34:52.:34:57.

outer space in this country in 21st-century Britain, and asked

:34:58.:34:58.

yourself what was the role of women 21st-century Britain, and asked

:34:59.:35:03.

in society... To stand in their knickers and nothing else, I think

:35:04.:35:07.

women have more to aspire to than to be able to take their clothes off in

:35:08.:35:18.

public. The sun no longer has the circulation, or the political

:35:19.:35:20.

importance, that it had in the 980s circulation, or the political

:35:21.:35:24.

when page three was at its height. Aren't people just voting with their

:35:25.:35:30.

feet anyway? The market is sorting this out. Half the number of people

:35:31.:35:33.

buy it now than they did 20 years this out. Half the number of people

:35:34.:35:39.

ago. Until the time the sun does not have page three any more, I am

:35:40.:35:44.

entitled to my view that it is outdated and wrong. I am happy to

:35:45.:35:51.

ban it. What should happen? Should ban it. What should happen? Should

:35:52.:35:59.

people boycott the paper? I have people boycott the paper? I have

:36:00.:36:03.

never implied or said it should be banned. I have always been

:36:04.:36:09.

forthright. Should people boycott the paper? I have not called for a

:36:10.:36:15.

boycott. The women's movement, of which I am part, and this is not

:36:16.:36:20.

about politicians censoring the press. I am part of the movement

:36:21.:36:23.

which says women can do better than press. I am part of the movement

:36:24.:36:30.

in their knickers in the newspapers. in their knickers in the newspapers.

:36:31.:36:36.

Why don't you do something about it? I am doing something about it by

:36:37.:36:43.

saying it is outdated. I am not doing anything more about it. Should

:36:44.:36:48.

people buy the paper as long as there is a page three? Would you

:36:49.:36:52.

like to say to viewers, as long as like to say to viewers, as long as

:36:53.:36:56.

page three is in the sand, you should not buy it? Dashes-macro be

:36:57.:37:05.

Son. I am saying, wake up to what the role of women in society should

:37:06.:37:09.

be, which is more than page three. If they changed it in Australia

:37:10.:37:13.

which is where Rupert Murdoch came from, why can they not change it in

:37:14.:37:20.

this country? You're watching the Sunday Politics. Coming up in just

:37:21.:37:24.

over 20 minutes... I'll be talking to man

:37:25.:37:25.

Welcome to your lunchtime Look North. In the headlines this

:37:26.:37:29.

Welcome to your lunchtime Look North. In the I Hello

:37:30.:37:30.

Welcome to your lunchtime Look Hello and a warm welcome to your

:37:31.:37:33.

local part of the show for the North East and Cumbria. Coming up: are we

:37:34.:37:44.

doing enough to help foster children once they reach 18? A charity calls

:37:45.:37:48.

for a change in the law. And my guests this week: the

:37:49.:37:52.

Gateshead Labour MP, Ian Mearns, and Northumberland Conservative

:37:53.:37:54.

Councillor Wayne Daley. A warm welcome to you both.

:37:55.:37:57.

And we start this Remembrance Sunday with continuing arguments over the

:37:58.:38:00.

size and scope of the Government's cuts to the Armed Forces. The number

:38:01.:38:04.

of regular soldiers is set to fall from 102,000 to 82,000 over the next

:38:05.:38:08.

decade, leaving the Army half the size it was during the Cold War era.

:38:09.:38:12.

A campaign is under way to save the 2nd Battalion Royal Regiment of

:38:13.:38:15.

Fusiliers, which recruits heavily in the North East and North West and is

:38:16.:38:19.

one of those due to be lost. It was an issue raised this week in the

:38:20.:38:23.

Commons. I joined over 100 supporters of the

:38:24.:38:26.

2nd Battalion Royal Regiment of Fusiliers as they marched on

:38:27.:38:29.

Parliament against the government's decision to scrap it. Ministers

:38:30.:38:32.

believe that the 2nd Battalion can be replaced by reservists, yet the

:38:33.:38:35.

chairman of the Northumberland Fusiliers Association is very

:38:36.:38:37.

concerned that it simply won't be possible to recruit the numbers

:38:38.:38:43.

needed. The Government wants the number of

:38:44.:38:47.

reservists to double to 30,000 but ministers say they are not a direct

:38:48.:38:49.

replacement for regular troops. The change of the role of reservists

:38:50.:38:53.

and the changes in the structure of the Army are not simply about trying

:38:54.:38:56.

to recruit reservists to replace disbanded battalions of infantry.

:38:57.:38:59.

Most of the reservists we are recruiting will be specialists,

:39:00.:39:09.

unlike the infantry role. Ian Mearns, I gather the Battalion

:39:10.:39:12.

of Fusiliers is one that is close to your heart?

:39:13.:39:19.

Indeed, my dad was a member of the Northumberland Royal Fusiliers

:39:20.:39:22.

before and during the Second World War.

:39:23.:39:28.

Clearly there is emotional resonance but I suppose the danger is that we

:39:29.:39:32.

could let emotions cloud the hard decisions that have to be made with

:39:33.:39:36.

the lack of resources meaning that some regiments will have to go.

:39:37.:39:43.

That is probably right but we have to look at the criteria the

:39:44.:39:46.

Government are using for the decisions that they have taken. When

:39:47.:39:52.

we look at The Royal Regiment of Fusiliers, there are two

:39:53.:39:54.

well`recruited battalions ` one in the North East, the other in the

:39:55.:39:58.

North West. If we take out one of those battalions it brings the whole

:39:59.:40:01.

regiment into question because under the government's own criteria,

:40:02.:40:04.

single battalion regiments are ones they are looking to cut further.

:40:05.:40:11.

Wayne Daley, the whole process of this doesn't seem right.

:40:12.:40:14.

Conservatives are presiding over cuts that a lot of people in your

:40:15.:40:21.

own party will be horrified by. It is important to understand that

:40:22.:40:23.

Northumberland Conservatives have supported a motion which supports

:40:24.:40:26.

the retention of the 2nd Battalion, particularly the Northumberland

:40:27.:40:29.

Regiment within that. It is very important for us to retain

:40:30.:40:36.

historical links. This goes back to something much wider, which was the

:40:37.:40:39.

defence review in 2010. Both parties at that general election were

:40:40.:40:42.

committed to doing this and the reason was simple: there was a ?3.3

:40:43.:40:48.

billion overspend in the last year of the Labour Government, a ?38

:40:49.:40:51.

billion hole in total over the last ten years on defence expenditure.

:40:52.:40:54.

That's the context but the reality is that as an unintended

:40:55.:40:57.

consequence, a historic regiment which recruits from the North East,

:40:58.:40:59.

particularly Northumberland, is now likely to be disbanded and as

:41:00.:41:03.

Conservatives in the area we are fundamentally opposed to that and we

:41:04.:41:06.

are writing to Philip Hammond to ask him to review the situation because

:41:07.:41:17.

it is the wrong decision. The Government says that reservists

:41:18.:41:20.

aren't supposed to be a replacement but realistically people will look

:41:21.:41:27.

at them as such. The plan is to have 30,000

:41:28.:41:34.

reservists by 2020. In the first month of recruitment, around 1500

:41:35.:41:37.

have been recruited so the MOD are saying they are on track. I don't

:41:38.:41:45.

know whether that's correct but what I am seeing as a Conservative is

:41:46.:41:48.

that I have concerns about that and many in my party have concerns about

:41:49.:41:52.

replacing a full`time Regiment with reservists and we need to monitor it

:41:53.:41:55.

very carefully because the MOD does not have a good history of delivery

:41:56.:42:02.

of its projects. Ian Mearns, I understand there is

:42:03.:42:05.

some emotion around this particular Regiment but every week Labour

:42:06.:42:08.

politicians come on here to say "don't cut this", "don't cut that",

:42:09.:42:11.

but realistically there is only so much money and the Government has

:42:12.:42:14.

got to take action. If you look at what the two

:42:15.:42:17.

battalions deliver on the ground, they are exactly what the modern

:42:18.:42:22.

army would need in the future. The MOD's website tells you exactly what

:42:23.:42:25.

the range of skills are within these two battalions and it exactly fits

:42:26.:42:29.

the criteria of what needs to be retained. I think that the MOD and

:42:30.:42:35.

the Army need to look elsewhere. Thank you both for now.

:42:36.:42:39.

Many of our local councillors have been running campaigns to attract

:42:40.:42:42.

more foster parents and it does seem to have worked. But what happens

:42:43.:42:46.

when those children reach 18? It seems many social service

:42:47.:42:48.

departments are not willing to keep funding of their foster placements

:42:49.:42:51.

and that can leave vulnerable young people faring for themselves without

:42:52.:42:55.

a job or a secure family home. The Government is now being urged to

:42:56.:43:02.

change the law. Like a lot of 18`year`olds, Arran

:43:03.:43:06.

has a busy schedule. Along with work as a swimming pool lifeguard, he is

:43:07.:43:09.

also training to be a sports coach. That means trips to the gym as well

:43:10.:43:14.

as study at college and through all this has foster mum is vital.

:43:15.:43:17.

Heather takes me everywhere, pretty much. She makes all my food. She

:43:18.:43:20.

gives me encouragement to do what I want and I have confidence that

:43:21.:43:22.

Heather believes in me. Of course, in most households,

:43:23.:43:35.

staying in the family home into your 20s has become the norm rather than

:43:36.:43:41.

the exception. But foster children are different. The vast majority

:43:42.:43:48.

still leave care before their 18th birthday. Campaigners say that's too

:43:49.:43:54.

young. Arran's foster carer agrees. There aren't a lot of people who

:43:55.:43:58.

leave home at 18 and most people of that age don't want to think about

:43:59.:44:02.

it, so I think all young people in foster care should be given the

:44:03.:44:05.

choice and the opportunity if they wish to stay on after 18.

:44:06.:44:12.

All the evidence suggests that people who have been in the care

:44:13.:44:16.

system are much more likely to end up unemployed or with poor health.

:44:17.:44:19.

But those who remain with their foster families for longer tend to

:44:20.:44:25.

do better. Why then, across the country, does only one in 20 remain

:44:26.:44:28.

fostered until the age of 19? It might be that there is just not

:44:29.:44:32.

that expectation, that principle that says come 18, you can stay with

:44:33.:44:36.

your foster carer. We have to try and break through that and make it

:44:37.:44:40.

clear to everybody that it is a good thing to do and that the thought of

:44:41.:44:44.

moving into a flat, which might be attractive to some young people,

:44:45.:44:47.

actually isn't so attractive once you have done it as it can be a very

:44:48.:44:52.

lonely time. That sense of isolation is something

:44:53.:44:55.

Ashleigh knows all about. She is now 19, living in supported

:44:56.:44:59.

accommodation and doing well. But after a childhood in the North East

:45:00.:45:03.

that alternated between foster care and unsuccessful returns to her

:45:04.:45:05.

birth family, she was placed alone in a hostel, aged only 16.

:45:06.:45:12.

It was horrible, people knocking on your door all the time, shouting and

:45:13.:45:18.

fighting. What sort of people?

:45:19.:45:21.

Like, alcoholics... How much help and support did you

:45:22.:45:24.

get at that time? Not really much... None.

:45:25.:45:33.

The answer, say some MPs, is to give teenagers like Ashleigh a new legal

:45:34.:45:36.

right to stay in foster care until 21.

:45:37.:45:39.

I think that we as a society have a responsibility to support young

:45:40.:45:42.

people who end up in the care system through no fault of their own. We

:45:43.:45:46.

should give them some of the advantages that young people in

:45:47.:45:48.

stable family relationships end up with.

:45:49.:45:52.

The Government has so far resisted new legislation but ministers say

:45:53.:45:55.

that they are pushing councils to support those in foster care for

:45:56.:45:59.

longer. They appear to share the view that teenagers like Arran

:46:00.:46:03.

deserve someone else to share their burden.

:46:04.:46:09.

Wayne Daley, isn't it a dereliction of duty that we saw someone like

:46:10.:46:14.

Ashleigh there aged only 16, ending up in a hostel facing the things she

:46:15.:46:16.

described? It's not good. In fact, on Friday

:46:17.:46:22.

the Government produced a wide`ranging cross`departmental

:46:23.:46:24.

strategy which is looking at young people in care. It is encouraging

:46:25.:46:27.

local authorities to continue that care and support for them post`18.

:46:28.:46:33.

Encouraging, but not forcing or providing resources.

:46:34.:46:36.

At the moment, it is a cross departmental strategy...

:46:37.:46:37.

A "cross`departmental strategy" ` that doesn't cut any ice...

:46:38.:46:44.

What that means is, let's look at Northumberland. In Northumberland,

:46:45.:46:47.

we have a 'staying put' strategy, which means we can help young people

:46:48.:46:51.

stay with their foster families past the age of 18. In Northumberland, to

:46:52.:46:55.

the age of 25 we have dedicated workers who will support those young

:46:56.:47:00.

people. There are pilot projects, we need to look at that and as we have

:47:01.:47:04.

seen in the film, the Government may be minded to look at legislation. My

:47:05.:47:08.

personal view is that it is such an important issue for those young

:47:09.:47:12.

people that we need to enshrine it in legislation. But at the moment

:47:13.:47:19.

what the Government is saying to local authorities is: continue to

:47:20.:47:22.

give the ?2000 grant to help set up a home, if they want it. Continue to

:47:23.:47:26.

provide the educational bursary of ?1200 a year, but also continue to

:47:27.:47:29.

provide that post`18 care, and like in Northumberland, which is a very

:47:30.:47:32.

good example, continue to offer that one`to`one support, and I think we

:47:33.:47:39.

can learn from that. Ian Mearns, some councils seem to be

:47:40.:47:42.

able to offer support, others don't. Is this more about their will to do

:47:43.:47:45.

it rather than resources? It's very patchy across the country

:47:46.:47:49.

and one of the things we have to accept is that previous governments

:47:50.:47:52.

have introduced the concept of local authorities as corporate parents and

:47:53.:47:55.

from my perspective, the corporate parenting responsibility does not

:47:56.:47:58.

end when a young person becomes 18 years old. If we're going to take

:47:59.:48:01.

the role of corporate parenting as seriously as we would parenting our

:48:02.:48:05.

own children, then it has to go on into young adulthood and into

:48:06.:48:08.

adulthood itself. These are vulnerable young people who have

:48:09.:48:10.

been through traumatic experiences, so we cannot cast them aside at the

:48:11.:48:12.

age of 18. We're does it stop, though? 21? 25?

:48:13.:48:27.

30? I mean, there are limits to resources.

:48:28.:48:32.

I think in the role of the corporate parent should be as a back`up

:48:33.:48:36.

facility, a guardianship role. I don't think we can get away from the

:48:37.:48:39.

fact that that will be resource`intensive but I think the

:48:40.:48:43.

problem we have to face up to is that far too many youngsters come

:48:44.:48:46.

through the care system and end up in the criminal justice system,

:48:47.:48:50.

which has far too many youngsters in it who've been failed by the care

:48:51.:48:53.

system. The costs there are dramatic to the criminal justice system. So

:48:54.:48:57.

we need to think about spending some money to support those young people

:48:58.:49:01.

into adulthood in order to prevent later unnecessary expenditure and

:49:02.:49:05.

harm. Thank you very much.

:49:06.:49:11.

There was a time when bus companies were owned and run by local councils

:49:12.:49:17.

but then Mrs Thatcher came along and the industry was deregulated. These

:49:18.:49:20.

days, it is the big transport operators like Stagecoach and Arriva

:49:21.:49:23.

which control bus services across the North East and the taxpayer

:49:24.:49:26.

still contributes ?62 million a year in subsidy. But could things be

:49:27.:49:30.

about to change? In Tyne Wear, the transport authority is consulting on

:49:31.:49:32.

plans that could see politicians taking back control over buses.

:49:33.:49:37.

The transport authority says that bus companies profits are excessive.

:49:38.:49:43.

If they took control, they'd promise better services and more joined up

:49:44.:49:46.

ticketing with the metro. But the bus companies have hit back. They

:49:47.:49:50.

say that the councils want to take money out of bus services to pay for

:49:51.:49:54.

the loss`making Metro and Shields ferry, while council tax bills will

:49:55.:50:01.

rise. So, who's right? Both sides in an

:50:02.:50:05.

increasingly bitter dispute are with me now. Jonathan Bray, tell us why

:50:06.:50:09.

this would be good news for bus passengers.

:50:10.:50:11.

This proposition is to take the ?60 million that the authorities have

:50:12.:50:15.

already put in and use also the excessive profits that the operators

:50:16.:50:18.

are making to provide a single integrated public transport network

:50:19.:50:21.

for Tyne Wear, where we can guarantee through contracts that the

:50:22.:50:24.

fares will be protected to RPI and also that 80% of passengers will

:50:25.:50:27.

start off any position where they will be better off or the same as

:50:28.:50:32.

they are now. This will be the first city outside of London to have a

:50:33.:50:34.

fully integrated transport system where buses coordinate with each

:50:35.:50:38.

other and with the Metro and it will be something similar to the Oyster

:50:39.:50:42.

card that will allow you to use all of the system together.

:50:43.:50:45.

OK, that is the case for. Phil Medlicot, why is it such a bad idea?

:50:46.:50:47.

Where we are today is that the Tyne Where we are today is that the Tyne

:50:48.:50:51.

Wear bus network, outside of London, is the next`most heavily

:50:52.:50:55.

used network in the whole of the UK. We also have one of the most

:50:56.:50:58.

satisfied customer bases outside of London, in fact including London. We

:50:59.:51:08.

have said that we will work with the Tyne Wear ITA and Nexus to

:51:09.:51:11.

introduce a partnership, as in many other cities in the UK. That is the

:51:12.:51:22.

normal process nowadays. From that, we can introduce a lot of things

:51:23.:51:26.

that Jonathan is talking about, for example, guaranteed levels of

:51:27.:51:28.

investment, real`time information, Wi`Fi, etc.

:51:29.:51:44.

Is is that this is about you protecting profits. . That is not

:51:45.:52:07.

true. ?42 million of that 62 million is actually to pay for concessionary

:52:08.:52:10.

fares so it is actually paying for the travellers that use the service.

:52:11.:52:21.

Are you making profits of 20%? Around that amount but we reinvest

:52:22.:52:27.

back into the service. We have invested over ?10 million into the

:52:28.:52:35.

economy in Tyne Wear. This is about taking money away from

:52:36.:52:40.

profitable alias and subsidising the loss`making metal and Shields

:52:41.:52:49.

ferry. It is all about profit. In London, where they have the same

:52:50.:52:51.

system that Tyne Wear want to bring in here, the only nickname

:52:52.:52:59.

percent. It is all about profit levels. If councils get the figures

:53:00.:53:11.

wrong it is the taxpayer that will suffer. This is the normal system

:53:12.:53:32.

for providing services. This system works. Argos is safe in your hands?

:53:33.:53:52.

`` are buses safe in your hands? Statistics are classic and you can

:53:53.:53:57.

always go back far not to say whether or not asked passengers have

:53:58.:54:09.

or haven't fallen. Actually, bus passenger levels are relatively

:54:10.:54:14.

stable. It is the numbers on the Metro but have fallen. Are bus

:54:15.:54:33.

passengers getting a good deal? I use the buses a great deal. We have

:54:34.:54:44.

one area of regional Government in England, that is London, but why is

:54:45.:54:51.

it one rule for London and another rule for provincial England? I use

:54:52.:54:58.

an Oyster card in London and it is so convenient. Let's not forget that

:54:59.:55:06.

when the buses where the regulated, the bus companies were sold off from

:55:07.:55:17.

public ownership at a very cheap premium. That actually proves that

:55:18.:55:30.

they were just about giving them away. What about support a

:55:31.:55:40.

Northumberland? The town council are supporting the proposal for these

:55:41.:55:47.

buses because they come into Northumberland. I think it would be

:55:48.:55:58.

good for our area. From the information that I have seen, it

:55:59.:56:05.

looks like a good idea because it provides a surety of service. This

:56:06.:56:12.

is curious that a conservative is backing what is in effect a kick in

:56:13.:56:22.

the teeth to private companies. It is not a kick in the teeth, it is

:56:23.:56:33.

falling Boris Johnson's example. It is taking profits. It is not about

:56:34.:56:47.

taking profits. It works in London and can work for the people in Tyne

:56:48.:57:19.

Wear and Northumberland. It is a. . The police caught on

:57:20.:57:28.

one key study identified that young lady has been taxed and now only has

:57:29.:57:54.

84p per day to live on. It is an absolute scandal. The head of Nissan

:57:55.:58:00.

wants the car`maker would have to reconsider its future in the UK if

:58:01.:58:04.

Britain pulled out of the European Union.

:58:05.:58:14.

Former DJ Mike Reed will be in the region next weekend for his new role

:58:15.:58:19.

as culture spokesman. I will be interviewing the party

:58:20.:58:34.

leader Nigel farads. That is next week.

:58:35.:58:41.

It came as a surprise when a Northumberland MP said he wanted to

:58:42.:58:43.

take over the studio and grill me for a change. Here I am, facing a

:58:44.:58:49.

quickfire question round for Children In Need.

:58:50.:59:04.

Here with me today as Richard Moss. You are a celebrity here in the

:59:05.:59:09.

North East so we have if you questions to ask you. Who would play

:59:10.:59:14.

you in the film your life? That is a good question and I would like to

:59:15.:59:22.

think it would be Brad Pitt. But party there might be a better

:59:23.:59:29.

match, in all honesty. You work`out? Songs in my head, yes! What is your

:59:30.:59:44.

message to the world? If you want Mr universe? I want to promote world

:59:45.:59:53.

peace. Daniel Craig Sean Connery? Daniel Craig. What do you want to

:59:54.:00:04.

be? I harbour ambitions to be a bus driver.

:00:05.:00:13.

Your consumer of that this Friday for Children In Need.

:00:14.:00:25.

more equipment so they can see cyclists. Back to you, Andrew.

:00:26.:00:37.

We learned this week that no more warships will be built at

:00:38.:00:42.

Portsmouth, the home of the Royal Navy since the days of the Mary Rose

:00:43.:00:46.

and Francis Drake. But has the city been sacrificed to save jobs on the

:00:47.:00:49.

Clyde in Scotland? Is England the loser in an effort to keep the

:00:50.:00:53.

United Kingdom intact? Let's speak to Eddie Bone, he leads the campaign

:00:54.:01:03.

for an English Parliament. Is England the loser in this attempt to

:01:04.:01:07.

doubt, Andrew. We would look at it from the campaign for the English

:01:08.:01:15.

Parliament that the British governance is bribing the Scots to

:01:16.:01:20.

stay with the union at the cost of English jobs. What is the best

:01:21.:01:26.

outcome for England when Scotland votes in the referendum next year?

:01:27.:01:30.

We have got to have an English parliament. What I mean by that is

:01:31.:01:33.

an endless governor and with a first minister speaking on behalf of the

:01:34.:01:40.

people of England. -- and English government. If Scotland votes for

:01:41.:01:44.

independence, that is the union coming to an end. It will be

:01:45.:01:51.

dissolved legally. England would be going to negotiating table without

:01:52.:01:58.

true representation. The union continues but it continues without

:01:59.:02:03.

Scotland. I want to come back to my... That is the constitutional

:02:04.:02:08.

position. You may not agree with me but that is the constitutional

:02:09.:02:13.

position. Do you want Scotland to vote for independence next year We

:02:14.:02:19.

want a fair deal with equality for England. If that can be maintained

:02:20.:02:24.

or England can have a fair deal within the union, that is brilliant.

:02:25.:02:29.

Let's have a federal system are all the nations are treated equally If

:02:30.:02:33.

that cannot happen and Scotland decides to stay, if Scotland goes,

:02:34.:02:42.

it is an independent England, isn't it? If Scotland votes to leave the

:02:43.:02:47.

union, what is left of the United Kingdom would be so dominated by

:02:48.:02:51.

England at Westminster would, in effect, Beale English Parliament,

:02:52.:02:56.

wouldn't it? I do not agree with you. I think that is a British, deny

:02:57.:03:03.

list approach. The act of union was a fusion with the King of England to

:03:04.:03:08.

the King of Scotland. That would come to an end. The Welsh are very

:03:09.:03:12.

concerned. They are a very small nation. If you have a botched

:03:13.:03:17.

British come English Parliament the Welsh would be in a very vulnerable

:03:18.:03:22.

situation. They would not be listened to. Also a situation with

:03:23.:03:27.

Northern Ireland. There are voices in Northern Ireland talking about

:03:28.:03:30.

trying to reunite Northern Ireland. It would be a very volatile

:03:31.:03:35.

situation. Would you prefer England to become an independent nation

:03:36.:03:40.

separate from what was left of the UK, which would be Wales and

:03:41.:03:44.

Northern Ireland? Would you like to see England have a seat in the UN? I

:03:45.:03:50.

want their representation for the people of England. English jobs were

:03:51.:03:57.

sacrificed because the British government wanted Scotland to

:03:58.:04:04.

remain... You have answered that very quickly. I am -- very clearly.

:04:05.:04:13.

Would you want England, without Northern Ireland and Wales to become

:04:14.:04:19.

a separate nation state? If that is what it takes for people of England

:04:20.:04:23.

to have their representation - representation that looks at

:04:24.:04:27.

policies of the NHS, education very different from Wales and Northern

:04:28.:04:31.

Ireland - then so be it. Independence will need to be the way

:04:32.:04:35.

forward. We have a small window of opportunity that the federal system

:04:36.:04:47.

might still work. D1 indenting have a system like Scotland? -- do you

:04:48.:04:55.

want England to have a system like Scotland? What we need to do now is

:04:56.:05:01.

implement the process is to get their representation for England. I

:05:02.:05:07.

would urge your viewers to join our campaign because it is the only way

:05:08.:05:12.

to protect jobs in England, protect the NHS, protect education.

:05:13.:05:18.

Otherwise we will see the people in England continually penalised by the

:05:19.:05:20.

British government is trying desperately to save the union by

:05:21.:05:26.

giving more to Scotland and Wales. Nice to talk to you. Helen, on this

:05:27.:05:31.

business of the Clyde versus Portsmouth, it would have been

:05:32.:05:36.

pretty inconceivable of the British government that believes in the

:05:37.:05:40.

union to have allowed the Clyde to close. That would have been a

:05:41.:05:45.

disaster. It would have been. It's dumped Nicola Sturgeon. Hang on a

:05:46.:05:50.

minute, if there was Scottish independence, England were not allow

:05:51.:05:53.

its warships to be built in a foreign country. She was unable to

:05:54.:05:58.

admit there were any downsides to Scottish independence. It would be

:05:59.:06:03.

dangerous for Scotland to talk about this. You have a Lib Dem and a

:06:04.:06:07.

Conservative MP with reasonable majorities. They will find that a

:06:08.:06:12.

killer on their doorstep in the next election. There are no results in

:06:13.:06:18.

this for Mr Cameron. He has one MP and he will be lucky to have two.

:06:19.:06:23.

And the South of England, I know Portsmouth is quite an industrial

:06:24.:06:29.

area, but the South of England is overall Tory territory. He has

:06:30.:06:33.

backed the Clyde where there are no Tory votes. The Tory problem in

:06:34.:06:37.

Scotland is crucial. The trend to look out for is the rise of English

:06:38.:06:41.

nationalism within the Conservative Party. They have the word Unionist

:06:42.:06:46.

in their official title. If, in election after election, they failed

:06:47.:06:50.

to win a significant presence in Scotland, and they are failing to

:06:51.:06:53.

win a majority in Westminster because of that, it is not hard to

:06:54.:07:00.

imagine that in ten years time that would be a party which has more

:07:01.:07:08.

autonomy. One person we know who does not sign up to that. David

:07:09.:07:13.

Cameron is a romantic Unionist at heart he may say that are not any

:07:14.:07:17.

vote in Scotland but he want to keep the union together. With the Clyde,

:07:18.:07:24.

you saw a rival together of economic and political interests. It is

:07:25.:07:28.

economic or the case the greatest shipbuilding capability in the

:07:29.:07:31.

United Kingdom is in the Clyde. It is politically very helpful for this

:07:32.:07:35.

government to say to people in Scotland, look at the benefits of

:07:36.:07:39.

being in the United Kingdom and under their breath, or in the case

:07:40.:07:43.

of Alistair Carmichael to a camera, look what might go if you leave

:07:44.:07:50.

That came together very conveniently to the government. Now, how do you

:07:51.:07:54.

like your politicians? Squeaky clean with an impeccable past? Or are you

:07:55.:07:57.

happy for them to have a few skeletons in the closet? Well, last

:07:58.:08:00.

week the Toronto Mayor Rob Ford admitted smoking crack cocaine. He

:08:01.:08:03.

said he took the drug about a year ago whilst in a drunken stupor. So,

:08:04.:08:07.

what impact do confessions have on a political career? In a moment, we'll

:08:08.:08:11.

hear what our panel has to say, but first, take a look at this. Yes I

:08:12.:08:20.

have smoked crack cocaine. Am I an addict? No. Have I tried it?

:08:21.:08:24.

Probably one of my drunken stupor is, about a year ago. I have used

:08:25.:08:31.

drugs in the past. I have used class a drugs in the past. About 30 years

:08:32.:08:38.

ago at university, I did smoke cannabis. I took cannabis is a few

:08:39.:08:44.

times at university and it was wrong. Have you snorted cocaine I

:08:45.:08:51.

tried to but unsuccessfully years ago. I sneezed. The people around

:08:52.:09:16.

you who took cocaine, they went .. Is it better to confess or the that

:09:17.:09:23.

get you into even more hot water? It is absolutely better. The confession

:09:24.:09:29.

by Jacqui Smith was without glamour. Finding a Labour politician who once

:09:30.:09:35.

smoked cannabis 25 years ago... I do not think it makes you think that

:09:36.:09:41.

she cannot be a serious politician. Politicians should brace thing about

:09:42.:09:45.

them which everyone knows. In the case of Ed Miliband, he should not

:09:46.:09:51.

deny being geeky. That would reek of in authenticity. The Tory MP meant

:09:52.:10:02.

to be regarded as a rising star turns out he was claiming to heat

:10:03.:10:07.

his horses stables at the expense of the tax payer. He had made a

:10:08.:10:13.

generous claim for energy bills in his constituency home. He went

:10:14.:10:16.

through the papers and found he had been using it to heat the stables

:10:17.:10:20.

and he laid it all out and did the right thing. He was completely

:10:21.:10:26.

honest. Is that the end of it? It will still haunt in because energy

:10:27.:10:34.

is such a big issue. He was right to be honest about it. Helen was

:10:35.:10:39.

saying, absolutely, you need to be honest about your past. Harriet

:10:40.:10:43.

Harman said she smoked pot at university. If you have smoked pot,

:10:44.:10:48.

you can have a front line career. If you have taken class a drugs, you

:10:49.:10:56.

cannot have a front line career There is the politician confessing

:10:57.:10:58.

and the remarkable willingness of the public to forgive. It is

:10:59.:11:03.

enlightened and progressive to forgive a politician for an affair

:11:04.:11:08.

or taking soft drugs at university. To smoke crack cocaine and demand be

:11:09.:11:13.

mad of following the Mayor of Toronto does astonishes me. There

:11:14.:11:18.

was an example in America a few years ago. It was crack cocaine He

:11:19.:11:24.

was elected having confessed to smoking crack cocaine. I draw the

:11:25.:11:31.

line around class a drugs. We will put the team on to investigate him.

:11:32.:11:37.

Help to Bible come back into the headlines again. Mr Cameron will

:11:38.:11:40.

surroundings by the people who are benefiting from buying their homes

:11:41.:11:44.

on this scheme in the same way that this is that you used to visit those

:11:45.:11:50.

who had bought their council houses. It will become hugely politicised.

:11:51.:11:54.

The Bank of England thinks that unemployment will drop late 201 ,

:11:55.:12:02.

early 2015. They will put interest rates up. Those with 95% mortgages

:12:03.:12:07.

will have two find an extra ?40 a month to pay them off. I would not

:12:08.:12:12.

be surprised if David Cameron is setting up himself with this

:12:13.:12:24.

trouble. They will not want to raise interest rates. Mark Carney was very

:12:25.:12:33.

careful to give himself three get out clauses. If unemployment hits a

:12:34.:12:37.

certain level, Key has three measures which have to be fulfilled

:12:38.:12:41.

before he goes ahead and raises interest rates. As a Tory

:12:42.:12:45.

strategist, would you rather go into the election with low and implement

:12:46.:12:50.

or low interest rates? I think they would stick to low interest rates.

:12:51.:12:59.

-- low unemployment. It is not just panellists who are raising questions

:13:00.:13:03.

about it, it is senior figures people in senior economic positions.

:13:04.:13:10.

They are saying the scheme is fine at the moment. David Cameron will be

:13:11.:13:14.

surrounded by people who have taken mortgages out at low levels and it

:13:15.:13:19.

is all fine right now but if interest rates go up, it will not be

:13:20.:13:25.

cosy. That's all folks. The Daily Politics is back tomorrow on BBC Two

:13:26.:13:28.

at midday. I'll be back next Sunday at the normal time of 11am.

:13:29.:13:31.

Remember, if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.

:13:32.:13:42.

Download Subtitles

SRT

ASS