02/03/2014 Sunday Politics North East and Cumbria


02/03/2014

Richard Moss with the latest political news. Andrew Neil interviews shadow education secretary Tristram Hunt and minister of state for skills Matthew Hancock on apprenticeships.


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Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.

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Fears that Ukraine could face invasion escalate this morning as

:00:41.:00:42.

Russian forces take control of Crimea. President Obama and his

:00:43.:00:47.

European allies tell President Putin to back off. It doesn't sound like

:00:48.:00:51.

he's listening. Shadow Education Secretary Tristram

:00:52.:00:54.

Hunt has started spelling out Labour's plans for schools. So

:00:55.:00:58.

what's the verdict - full marks or must try harder? He joins us for the

:00:59.:01:04.

Sunday Interview. And all the big political parties

:01:05.:01:06.

are desperate to broaden their And all the big political parties

:01:07.:01:07.

appeal. We'll look at some Wembley. And all the glory of the

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Northern Lights. We're showing In the north`east and Cumbria, our

:01:11.:01:16.

Northern Lights. We In In the north`east and Cumbria, our

:01:17.:01:19.

government welfare increasing poverty. Cumbria and say they pay

:01:20.:01:23.

more changes. And tightening household

:01:24.:01:29.

finances. And with me, as always, three

:01:30.:01:32.

journalists who'd make a clean sweep if they were handing out Oscars for

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political punditry in LA tonight. But just like poor old Leonardo

:01:37.:01:40.

DiCaprio they've never won so much as a Blue Peter badge! Yes, it's

:01:41.:01:45.

Nick Watt, Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. Instead of acceptance

:01:46.:01:48.

speeches they'll be tweeting faster than the tears roll down Gwyneth

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Paltrow's face. Yes, that's as luvvie as we get on this show.

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Events have been moving quickly in Ukraine this weekend. The interim

:01:58.:02:01.

government in Kiev has put the Ukrainian military on full combat

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alert after Russia's parliament rubber-stamped the deployment of

:02:04.:02:08.

Russian troops anywhere in Ukraine. Russian troops seem already to be in

:02:09.:02:11.

control of the mainly Russian-speaking Crimea region,

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where Russia has a massive naval base. President Obama told President

:02:15.:02:18.

Putin that Russia has flouted international law by sending in

:02:19.:02:20.

Russian troops but the Kremlin is taking no notice. This is now

:02:21.:02:27.

turning into the worst stand-off between Russia and the West since

:02:28.:02:30.

the conflict between Georgia and Russia in 2008, though nobody

:02:31.:02:33.

expects any kind of military response from the West. Foreign

:02:34.:02:39.

Secretary William Hague is on his way to Kiev this morning to show his

:02:40.:02:42.

support for the new government, though how long it will survive is

:02:43.:02:46.

another matter. We can speak to our correspondent David Stern, he's in

:02:47.:02:53.

Kiev. As things look from Kiev, can we

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take it they've lost Crimea, it is now in all essence under Russian

:03:00.:03:07.

control? Yes, well for the moment, Crimea is under Russian control

:03:08.:03:11.

Russian troops in unmarked uniforms have moved throughout the peninsula

:03:12.:03:19.

taking up various positions, also at the Ismis which links Ukraine into

:03:20.:03:26.

Crimea. They've surrounded Ukrainon troops there. Three units have been

:03:27.:03:30.

captured according to a top officials. We can say at the moment

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Russia controls the peninsula. It should also be said, also they have

:03:36.:03:40.

the support of the ethnic Russian population. The ethnic Russians make

:03:41.:03:44.

up the majority of the population. They are also not entirely in

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control because there are other groups, namely the Tatar as and the

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ethnic Ukrainian speakers who are at least at the moment tacitly

:03:56.:04:01.

resisting. We'll see what they'll start to do in the coming days.

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David, I'm putting up some pictures showing Russian troops digging in on

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the border between Crimea and Ukraine. I get the sense that is

:04:14.:04:18.

just for show. There is, I would assume, no possibility that the

:04:19.:04:24.

Ukrainians could attempt to retake Crimea by military force? It seems

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that the Ukrainians are weighing their options right now. Their

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options are very limited. Any head-to-head conflict with Russia

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would probably work against the Ukrainians. They seem to be taking

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more of a long-term gain. They are waiting for the figs's first move.

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They are trying not to create any excuse that the Russians can stage

:04:50.:04:54.

an even larger incursion into Crimea or elsewhere, for that matter. They

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also seem to be trying to get international support. It should be

:05:00.:05:03.

said, this is a new Government. It has only been installed this week.

:05:04.:05:06.

They are trying to gain their footing. This is a major crisis

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They have to count on the loyalty of the army they might have some

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resistance from solders from the eastern part of the country who are

:05:17.:05:20.

Russian speaking. They probably could count on Ukrainian speakers

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and people from the centre and west of the country as well as regular

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Ukrainians. A lot of people are ready to fight to defend Ukrainian

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Terre Tory. Where does the Kremlin go next? They have Crimea to all

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intents and purposes. There's a weak Government in Kiev. Do they move to

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the eastern side of Ukraine which is largely Russian speaking and there's

:05:47.:05:50.

already been some unrest there? That's the big question, that's what

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everybody's really asking now. Where does this go from here? We've had

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some unrest in the eastern part of the country. There have been

:05:59.:06:03.

demonstrations and clashes. More ominously, there have been noises

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from the Kremlin they might actually move into eastern Ukraine. Putin in

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his conversation with Barack Obama said they might protect their

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interests there. It should be said, if they do expand, in fact, they've

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also said they are dead against the new Government seeing it as

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illegitimate and fascist. It does contain risks. They will have to

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deal with international reactions. America said there will be a deep

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reaction to this and it will affect Russia's relations with Ukraine and

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the international community. They have to deal with the reaction in

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Ukraine. This may unite Ukrainians behind this new interim Government.

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Once Russia moves in, they will be seen as an invading force. It plays

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on historical feelings of Russia being an imperial force.

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Joining me is MP Mark Field who sits on the security Security and

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Intelligence Committee in the House of Commons. What should the western

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response be to these events? I can understand why William Hague is

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going to Kiev tomorrow to stand side by side whizz whoever's in charge.

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They need to CEOP sit numbers and also President Putin. The truth is

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we are all co significant fatries to the Budapest Memorandum of almost 20

:07:43.:07:48.

years ago which was designed to maintain the integrity of the

:07:49.:07:52.

Ukraine and Crimea. There needs to be a discussion along those lines.

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The difficulty is President Putin has watched events in recent months,

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in relation to Syria, it is palpable President Obama's focus of attention

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ask the other side of the Pacific rather than the Atlantic. The vote

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in the House of Commons, I was very much against the idea of military

:08:15.:08:19.

action or providing weapons to the free Syrian army. My worry is,

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events proved this, the majority of the other options toed as sad are

:08:24.:08:30.

rather worse. It is clear now we are in a constitutional mess in this

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country. We cannot even contemplate military action without a

:08:36.:08:38.

parliamentary vote that moves against quick reaction that is

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required from the executive or, I suspect, there will be very little

:08:44.:08:47.

appetite for any military action from the West over in Ukraine. We

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are corn tours under the agreement of less than 20 years ago. We may be

:08:56.:09:00.

but we've guaranteed an agreement which it is clear we haven't the

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power to enforce. You wrote this morning, Britain is a diminished

:09:04.:09:09.

voice. Clams Iley navigating the Syrian conflict we relick wished

:09:10.:09:14.

decisions to the whims of parliamentary approval. That may or

:09:15.:09:20.

may not be but the Kremlin's not watching how we voted on the Syrian

:09:21.:09:27.

issue? In relation to Syria, it was where is the western resolve here.

:09:28.:09:33.

The truth ask Putin's position is considerably less strong. In

:09:34.:09:37.

diplomatic terms. He had a victory in Syria in relation to chemical

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weapons and in relation to the West's relationship with Iran. Putin

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is a vital inter locking figure In demographic and economic terms,

:09:51.:09:55.

Russia's in very deep trouble. The oil price started to fall to any

:09:56.:10:00.

degree, oil and gas price, given the importance of mineral wealth and

:10:01.:10:05.

exports for the Russian economy Putin would be in a lot of trouble.

:10:06.:10:12.

It requires an engagement from the EU and the EU are intending to look

:10:13.:10:16.

at their internal economic problems and will be smarting from the

:10:17.:10:21.

failure within a matter of hours of the deal they tried to broker only

:10:22.:10:25.

nine days' ago. You say if Mr Putin decides to

:10:26.:10:29.

increase the stakes and moves into the east, takes over the whole

:10:30.:10:33.

place, our Government, you say, will find itself with another colossal

:10:34.:10:39.

international headache. Some people watching this will be thinking,

:10:40.:10:43.

what's it got to do with us? It s a long way away from Britain. We

:10:44.:10:48.

haven't a dog in this fight? We have in this regard for the longer term

:10:49.:10:54.

here. I think if there were to be some military action in Ukraine the

:10:55.:10:58.

sense of Russia taking over, it could have a major impact on the

:10:59.:11:03.

global economy in very quick order. You should not deny that. There will

:11:04.:11:08.

be move to have sanctions against Russia. The escalation of that will

:11:09.:11:12.

be difficult. The other fact is looking at our internal affairs and

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reform, partners, the Baltic states, Finland, Poland, the Czech Republic,

:11:21.:11:26.

they will be looking at a resurgent Russia now and think they'll need to

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hold as tightly as possible to the EU institutions and the power of

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Germany at the centre of that. This whole appetite for the reforms

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politically and economically will be closed very much within a matter of

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a short period of time. It has longer term implications. Mark

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Field, thank you. We're joined now by BBC News night's

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Diplomatic Editor Mark Urban. Is there any prospect of a western

:12:03.:12:07.

military response? Clearly at the moment, it is nil. The boat has

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sailed with the Crimean. It has been per performed by Russian forces It

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is now a matter of coordinating a plate cal line. European foreign

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ministers tomorrow. To say what will our future limits be? Where could we

:12:28.:12:32.

possibly draw red lines? To try to think a couple of steps down this,

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what happens if Russia interrupts energy supplies to EU member states

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ornate owe countries? These are the important steps they have to think

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about. It is quite clear we are in a different world here now. Also,

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Ukraine is facing a urgent foreign exchange crisis. Within literally a

:12:52.:12:54.

few weeks they could run out of money. All of these are rushing

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towards decision makers very fast. There is an interim and I suggestion

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unstable Government in Kiev. Crimea semi-to be under Russian control.

:13:07.:13:10.

There are clashes between the reformers and Russian nationals in

:13:11.:13:13.

the east of the country. What does Mr Putin do next? He has lots of

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options, of course. He has this carte blanch carte blanch from his

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Parliament to go in to the rest of Ukraine if he wants to. His military

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deployment suggests the one bite at a time, just Crimea to start with.

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See what response comes from the Ukrainian Government. Of course so

:13:35.:13:38.

far, there hasn't been a coherent response. The really worrying thing

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about recent months, not just recent days, are the indications that the

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future of Ukraine as a unitary state is now in doubt. Look at it from the

:13:49.:13:56.

other side of the equation. The President when faced with

:13:57.:14:01.

demonstrations, many extremists he was unable to deal with that. Now we

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have the other side, if you like, the Russian speakers, the other side

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of the fight, Russian nationalists showing they can get away with

:14:11.:14:15.

unilateral action more or less with impunity. The Ukrainian chiefs have

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been sacked. I think there are considerable questions now as to

:14:25.:14:27.

whether Ukraine is falling apart and, if that happens, we're into a

:14:28.:14:34.

Yugoslav-type situation which will continue posing very serious

:14:35.:14:39.

questions for the EU and NATO for months or years to come. So, Janan,

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Ukraine is over? Where the west to concede to the Russian in Crimea, it

:14:48.:14:52.

would perversely be a net loss for Russia. You'd assume the rest of

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Ukraine would become an un unambiguously a member of the the

:15:01.:15:06.

EU, maybe NATO. On top of that a Russian dream of Eurasion dream

:15:07.:15:13.

they will look at Putin's behaviour and is a, no, thanks, we'll head

:15:14.:15:18.

towards the EU. It is a short-term victory for Putin which backfires on

:15:19.:15:31.

his broader goals in Well, many people said if he grabs Crimea, he

:15:32.:15:38.

loses Ukraine, which is your point. We have seen violent demonstrations

:15:39.:15:42.

in the big eastern cities in Ukraine yesterday. People taking control of

:15:43.:15:47.

certain buildings. The risk is there of spreading beyond Crimea. I think

:15:48.:15:53.

the lack of any unified or visible response from Ukrainian armed

:15:54.:15:55.

forces... They allowed Russian troops to walk into the bases in

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Crimea. They have supposedly gone on red alert but they have done

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absolutely nothing. We don't see them deploying from barracks. There

:16:05.:16:07.

are serious questions about whether they would just fall apart. Putin is

:16:08.:16:15.

not going to let them split away. I would have thought he would like the

:16:16.:16:20.

entire Ukraine to come into the Russian ambit. Barack Obama is

:16:21.:16:26.

saying this will not stand. He has a 90 minute conversation with Vladimir

:16:27.:16:31.

Putin and what is his response? I am suspending my cooperation in the

:16:32.:16:34.

run-up to the Sochi Summit. What is the EU doing? Nothing. There is

:16:35.:16:41.

nothing they can do and Putin knows there are a series of lines that he

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is able to cross and get away with it. Why should Berlin, London,

:16:46.:16:53.

Washington be surprised by the strength of Vladimir Putin's

:16:54.:16:57.

reaction? It was never going to let Ukraine just fall into the arms of

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the EU. That is the interesting point. And who does he listen to?

:17:02.:17:06.

Paddy Ashdown was saying sent Angela Merkel because she is the only

:17:07.:17:09.

person who can talk to him and I find that response worrying. We need

:17:10.:17:13.

to speak with a united voice but nobody knows what we should be

:17:14.:17:18.

saying. Military intervention is out for the West so we go to economic

:17:19.:17:22.

sanctions. Doesn't Vladimir Putin just say, oh, you want sanctions? I

:17:23.:17:29.

have turned off the gas tap. Yes, it is move and countermove, and it is

:17:30.:17:33.

difficult to predict where it will end up. In all these meetings that

:17:34.:17:38.

are being held, they do think a step or two ahead and try and set out

:17:39.:18:12.

clear lines. Thank you for coming in this morning.

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Labour has been struggling since 2010 to decide exactly how to take

:18:14.:18:15.

education secretary Michael Gove, one of the boldest reformers of the

:18:16.:18:18.

coalition and most divisive figures. Ed Miliband appointed TV historian

:18:19.:18:20.

Tristram Hunt and many thought Labour had found the man to teach

:18:21.:18:23.

Michael Gove a lesson. But how much do we really know about the party's

:18:24.:18:25.

plans for England's schools? Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland are a

:18:26.:18:27.

devolved matter. Child has been back to school to find out. A politician

:18:28.:18:30.

once told me, do you know why education secretaries changed

:18:31.:18:32.

schools? Because they can. Michael Gove might dispute the motive but he

:18:33.:18:34.

is changing schools, like this one. The changes he is ringing in our

:18:35.:18:37.

encouraging them to be academies, free from local authorities to

:18:38.:18:39.

control their own budgets, ushering in free schools, focusing on

:18:40.:18:41.

toughening exams and making them the core of the curriculum with less

:18:42.:18:43.

coursework, and offering heads more discretion on tougher discipline.

:18:44.:18:49.

And he is in a hurry to put all this in place. But has that shut out any

:18:50.:18:53.

chance for a Labour Government to change it all themselves and do they

:18:54.:18:58.

really want to? Any questions? Visiting a different school, first

:18:59.:19:04.

in line to get a crack at that would-be Labour's third shadow

:19:05.:19:07.

education secretary since 2010, Tristram Hunt. In post, he has not

:19:08.:19:11.

been taken about fine tuning previous direct opposition to free

:19:12.:19:15.

schools and he has also suggested teachers in England would have to be

:19:16.:19:19.

licensed under a Labour Government, allowing the worst to be sacked and

:19:20.:19:22.

offering training and development to others and of course ending

:19:23.:19:27.

coalition plans to allow unqualified teachers into classrooms. Full

:19:28.:19:31.

policy detail is still unmarked work. Your opinion about evolution?

:19:32.:19:42.

What is very clear is that Labour's education policy is still evolving.

:19:43.:19:47.

We are learning that they have some clear water, but we also seem, from

:19:48.:19:52.

the sting at the back, to get the feeling that there is not a great

:19:53.:19:55.

deal of difference from them and the current Government on types of

:19:56.:20:00.

schools and the way education should proceed. -- from listening at the

:20:01.:20:06.

back. So what exactly is different about their policy? What Tristram

:20:07.:20:11.

Hunt's job is to do is to be open and honest about the shared agenda

:20:12.:20:15.

between us and the Tories. There are a lot of areas where there is clear

:20:16.:20:19.

water between us and Tristram Hunt as to turn his back, shared agenda,

:20:20.:20:24.

stop fighting it, and forge our agenda, which I think people will be

:20:25.:20:30.

really interested in. The art of Government, of course, is to balance

:20:31.:20:35.

competing pictures of policy, even inside your own party. It is fair to

:20:36.:20:39.

say that if Labour reflects and draws its own visions of a shared

:20:40.:20:43.

agenda, it might have to square that idea with teaching unions, who are

:20:44.:20:46.

already unhappy with the pace and tone of change that the Government

:20:47.:20:51.

had sketched out. What we sincerely hope is that if Labour were to form

:20:52.:20:56.

the next Government, that they would look at a serious review of

:20:57.:21:19.

accountability measures. That is really what ways on teachers every

:21:20.:21:21.

single day. Actually they would look at restoring the possibility, for

:21:22.:21:24.

example, of local councillors to be able to open schools. That seems

:21:25.:21:26.

eminently sensible. If they are not going to move back from the free

:21:27.:21:28.

schools and academies programme at the very least they need to say that

:21:29.:21:31.

academy chains will be inspected because at the moment they are not.

:21:32.:21:34.

Labour have balls in the air on education and are still throwing

:21:35.:21:36.

around precise policy detail. There are areas that they could grab hold

:21:37.:21:39.

of and seize possession. A focus on the rounding of the people,

:21:40.:21:41.

developing character, the impact of digitalisation on the classroom

:21:42.:21:43.

Also the role and handling of teachers in the system and the

:21:44.:21:46.

interdependence of schools. That is all still to play for. Currently I

:21:47.:21:52.

think the difference between the parties is that the coalition

:21:53.:21:55.

policies, while we do not agree with all of them, are clear and explicit,

:21:56.:22:00.

and Labour's policies are yet to be formulated in a way that everybody

:22:01.:22:07.

can understand clearly. I don't think that Tristram Hunt or Miliband

:22:08.:22:10.

will want to pick unnecessary fights before the election. I think we will

:22:11.:22:18.

have quite a red, pinkish fuzziness around the whole area of policy but

:22:19.:22:23.

after the election there will be grey steel from Tristram Hunt. But

:22:24.:22:30.

if fuzzy policy before the election is the lesson plan, it does rather

:22:31.:22:34.

risk interested voters being left in the dark.

:22:35.:22:38.

Tristram Hunt joins me now for the Sunday interview.

:22:39.:22:50.

Welcome. Thank you. Which of Michael Gove's school reforms would you

:22:51.:22:55.

repeal? We are not interested in throwing a change for the sake of

:22:56.:22:58.

it. When I go round schools, teachers have been through very

:22:59.:23:02.

aggressive changes in the last three years, so when it comes to some of

:23:03.:23:05.

the curriculum reforms we have seen, we are not interested in changing

:23:06.:23:09.

those for the sake of it. Where we are interested in making change is

:23:10.:23:14.

having a focus on technical and vocational education, making sure

:23:15.:23:18.

that the forgotten 15% is properly addressed in our education system.

:23:19.:23:23.

What we saw in your package was an interesting description of how we

:23:24.:23:26.

have seen structural reforms in the names of schools. Academies, free

:23:27.:23:30.

schools, all the rest of it. International evidence is clear that

:23:31.:23:34.

it is the quality of leadership of the headteachers and the quality of

:23:35.:23:36.

teaching in the classroom that transforms the prospects of young

:23:37.:23:40.

people. Instead of tinkering around the names of schools, we focus on

:23:41.:23:45.

teacher quality. Viewers will be shocked to note that this Government

:23:46.:23:49.

approves of unqualified teachers in the classroom. We want to have fully

:23:50.:24:04.

qualified, passionate, motivated teachers in the classroom. It sounds

:24:05.:24:06.

like you might not repeal anything. You might build on it and you might

:24:07.:24:09.

go in a different direction, with more emphasis on technological

:24:10.:24:11.

education but no major repeal of the reforms of Michael Gove? I don't

:24:12.:24:14.

think you want to waste energy on undoing reforms. In certain

:24:15.:24:18.

situations they build on Labour Party policy. We introduced the

:24:19.:24:24.

sponsored academy programmes and we began the Teach First programmes,

:24:25.:24:27.

and we began the London challenge which transformed the educational

:24:28.:24:33.

prospects of children in London We want to roll that out across the

:24:34.:24:37.

country. You have said there will be no more free schools, which Michael

:24:38.:24:43.

Gove introduced, but you will allow parents let academies, which just

:24:44.:24:45.

means free schools by a different name. No, because they will be in

:24:46.:24:55.

certain areas. We want to create new schools with parents. What we have

:24:56.:24:59.

at the moment is a destructive and market-driven approach to

:25:00.:25:03.

education. I was in Stroud on Thursday and plans for a big new

:25:04.:25:07.

school, in an area with surplus places, threatened to destroy the

:25:08.:25:11.

viability of local, rural schools. We want schools to work together in

:25:12.:25:15.

a network of partnership and challenge, rather than this

:25:16.:25:19.

destructive market-driven approach. You say that, but your version of

:25:20.:25:45.

free schools, I think, would only be allowed where there is a shortage of

:25:46.:25:48.

places. That means that where there is an excess of bad schools, parents

:25:49.:25:50.

will have no choice. They still have to send their kids to bad schools.

:25:51.:25:53.

And we have to transform bad schools and that was always the Labour way

:25:54.:25:56.

in Government. At the moment we just have an insertion of new schools.

:25:57.:25:58.

Schools currently underperforming are now underperforming even more.

:25:59.:26:00.

Children only have one chance at education. What about their time in

:26:01.:26:02.

school? Our focus is on the leadership of the headteacher and

:26:03.:26:05.

having quality teachers in the classroom. So they cannot set up new

:26:06.:26:07.

better schools and they have to go to the bad schools. Tony Blair said

:26:08.:26:10.

it should be easier for parents to set up new schools where they are

:26:11.:26:12.

dissatisfied with existing schools. You are not saying that. Even where

:26:13.:26:16.

they are dissatisfied with existing schools, they cannot set up free

:26:17.:26:19.

schools and you are reneging on that. We live in difficult economic

:26:20.:26:25.

circumstances where we have got to focus public finances on the areas

:26:26.:26:31.

of absolute need. We need 250,0 0 new school places. 150,000 in London

:26:32.:26:37.

alone. We have to focus on building new schools and where we have to put

:26:38.:26:44.

them. And secondly... Absolutely not. Focusing on those schools.

:26:45.:26:48.

Making sure we turned them around, just as we did in Government. We

:26:49.:26:53.

have had a remarkable degree of waste under the free school

:26:54.:26:57.

programme. If you think of the free school in Derby, the Academy in

:26:58.:27:02.

Bradford, and as we saw in the Telegraph on Friday, the free

:27:03.:27:06.

schools in Suffolk, a great deal of waste of public money on

:27:07.:27:09.

underperforming free schools. That is not the Labour way. We focus on

:27:10.:27:12.

making sure that kids in schools at the moment get the best possible

:27:13.:27:18.

education. Except that in your own backyard, in Stoke, only 34% of

:27:19.:27:24.

secondary school pupils attend a good or outstanding school. 148 out

:27:25.:27:32.

of 150 of the worst performing local authorities and it is

:27:33.:27:34.

Labour-controlled. Still terrible schools and yet you say parents

:27:35.:27:39.

should not have the freedom to start a better school. We have great

:27:40.:27:43.

schools in Stoke-on-Trent as well. We face challenges, just as

:27:44.:27:46.

Wolverhampton does and the Isle of Wight and Lincolnshire. Just like

:27:47.:27:52.

large parts of the country. What is the solution to that? Making sure we

:27:53.:27:57.

share excellence among the existing schools and making sure we have

:27:58.:28:01.

quality leadership in schools. Those schools in Stoke-on-Trent are all

:28:02.:28:04.

academies. It is not a question only of structure but of leadership. It

:28:05.:28:09.

is also a question of going back to the responsibility of parents to

:28:10.:28:12.

make sure their kids are school ready when they get to school. To

:28:13.:28:16.

make sure they are reading to their children in the evening. We can t

:28:17.:28:50.

put it all on teachers. Parents have responsibilities. I understand that

:28:51.:28:53.

but you have told me Labour's policy would not be to set up new schools

:28:54.:28:55.

which parents hope will be better. Parents continue to send their kids

:28:56.:28:58.

to bad schools in areas like Stoke. Labour has had plenty of time to

:28:59.:29:01.

sort out these schools in Stoke and they are still among the worst

:29:02.:29:03.

performing in the country. You are condemning these parents to having

:29:04.:29:06.

to send their kids to bad schools. Where we have seen the sett ing up

:29:07.:29:09.

of Derby, Suffolk, we have seen that is not the simple solution. Is

:29:10.:29:11.

simply setting up a new is not a successful model. What works is good

:29:12.:29:14.

leadership. I was in Birmingham on Friday at a failing comprehensive is

:29:15.:29:16.

not a successful model. What works is good leadership. I was in

:29:17.:29:19.

Birmingham on Friday at a failing comprehensive school and now people

:29:20.:29:21.

are queueing round the block to get into it. You can turn around schools

:29:22.:29:23.

with the right leadership, passionate and motivated teachers,

:29:24.:29:25.

and parents engaged with the learning outcome of their kids. In

:29:26.:29:30.

the last few years of the Labour Government, only four kids from your

:29:31.:29:36.

this Government would set up the new school. In Birmingham, they got in a

:29:37.:29:38.

great headmaster and turned the school around and now people are

:29:39.:29:41.

queueing round the block to get into it. You can turnaround schools with

:29:42.:29:43.

the right leadership, passionate and motivated teachers, and parents

:29:44.:29:45.

engaged with the learning outcome of their kids. In the last few years of

:29:46.:29:48.

a Labour Government, only four kids from your area of and you had plenty

:29:49.:29:51.

of chances to put this right but only four got to the two and you had

:29:52.:29:54.

plenty of chances to put this right but only four got to the two leading

:29:55.:30:00.

universities. Traditionally young people could leave school at 16 and

:30:01.:30:04.

walking two jobs in the potteries, the steel industry, the

:30:05.:30:07.

traditionally young people could leave school at 16 and walking two

:30:08.:30:09.

jobs in the potteries, the steel industry, the but also to get an

:30:10.:30:16.

apprenticeship at Jaguar Land Rover, JCB, Rolls-Royce. That is why

:30:17.:30:22.

Ed Miliband's focus on the forgotten 15%, which we have just not seen

:30:23.:30:28.

from this Government, focusing on technical and vocational pathways,

:30:29.:30:39.

is fundamental to Your headmaster was guiles Slaughter. Was he a good

:30:40.:30:55.

teacher? He He never taught me. Over 90% of teeners in the private

:30:56.:31:03.

sector are qualified. They look for not simply teachers with qualified

:31:04.:31:06.

teacher status. Teachers with MAs. Teachers who are improving them

:31:07.:31:10.

cephalitis. Becoming better educators.

:31:11.:31:19.

cephalitis. Becoming better teaching. You were taught by

:31:20.:31:20.

unqualified teachers. Your parents paid over ?15,000 a year for you

:31:21.:31:25.

being taught by unqualified teachers. Why did you make such a

:31:26.:31:30.

big deal of it? Because we've seen right around the world those

:31:31.:31:34.

education systems which focus on having the most qualified teachers

:31:35.:31:40.

perform the best. It cannot be right that anyone can simply turn up, as

:31:41.:31:47.

at the moment, have schools at veritising for unqualified teachers

:31:48.:31:50.

teaching in the classroom. We want the best qualified teachers with the

:31:51.:31:57.

deepest subject knowledge, for the passion in learning for their kids.

:31:58.:32:03.

It is absurd we are having arguments about this. Simply having a paper

:32:04.:32:07.

qualification doesn't make you a great teacher. Let me take you to

:32:08.:32:13.

Brighton college. It is gone from the 147th to the 18 18th best

:32:14.:32:19.

private school in the land. Fllt the headmaster says:

:32:20.:32:34.

This is the top Sundaytimes school of the year. The school in derby

:32:35.:32:46.

where this Government allowed unqualified teaching assist taints.

:32:47.:32:49.

We had teachers who could barely speak English. That is because if

:32:50.:32:53.

you have unqualified teachers you end up with a dangerous situation.

:32:54.:32:58.

The problem with that school was not unqualified teachers. People were

:32:59.:33:02.

running that school who were unfit to run a school. We have an issue

:33:03.:33:08.

about discipline and behaviour management in some of our schools.

:33:09.:33:12.

Some of the skills teachers gain through qualifications and learning

:33:13.:33:16.

is how to manage classes and get the best out of kids at every stage It

:33:17.:33:20.

doesn't end with a qualified teacher status. That's just the beginning.

:33:21.:33:26.

We want our teachers to have continue it will development. It is

:33:27.:33:31.

not good enough to have your initial teacher trainingaged work through

:33:32.:33:37.

your career for 30 years. You need continual learning. Learning how to

:33:38.:33:42.

deal with digital technology. Refresh your subject knowledge. As

:33:43.:33:46.

an historian I help teachers. You've taught as an unqualified teacher.

:33:47.:33:52.

Not in charge of a subject group. I give the odd lecture. I'm-y to go to

:33:53.:33:58.

as many schools as possible. I don't blame you. It is uplifting. Would

:33:59.:34:03.

you sack all unqualified teachers? We'd want them all to gain teacher

:34:04.:34:11.

status. What if they say no? If they are not interested in improving

:34:12.:34:16.

skills and deepening their knowledge they should not be in the classroom.

:34:17.:34:23.

If a free school or academy hired a teach thinking they are a great

:34:24.:34:28.

teacher but unqualified, if they are then forced by you to fire them

:34:29.:34:33.

they will be in breach of the law. They are being urged by us to make

:34:34.:34:37.

sure they have qualified teacher status. We've lots of unqualified

:34:38.:34:42.

teachers as long as they are on the pathway to making sure they are

:34:43.:34:46.

qualified. But if they say they don't want to do this, will you fire

:34:47.:34:51.

them? It is not an unreasonable suggestion is that the teachers in

:34:52.:34:55.

charge of our young people have qualifications to teach and inspire

:34:56.:34:59.

our young people particularly when we face global competition from

:35:00.:35:05.

Shanghai, Korea and so on. The head teacher of Brighton college finds

:35:06.:35:10.

incredibly inspeechational teachers who don't' necessarily have a

:35:11.:35:16.

teaching qualifications. It is a different skill to teach ten young

:35:17.:35:23.

nice boys and girls in Brighton to teaches 20 or 30 quids with

:35:24.:35:27.

challenging circumstances, special educational needs, different

:35:28.:35:31.

ability. Being a teacher at Brighton college is an easy gig in comparison

:35:32.:35:36.

to other schools. Where we want teachers to have a capacity to teach

:35:37.:35:43.

properly. Do you think Tristram could ever lead the Labour Party? I

:35:44.:35:50.

think Ed is a great leader, the reforms yesterday were a real sign

:35:51.:35:55.

for his leadership. And the fact David Owen, the man with a

:35:56.:35:58.

pre-history with our party is back with us. It is great. Even Gideon

:35:59.:36:03.

had to change his name to George. Have you thought of switching to

:36:04.:36:12.

Tommy or Tony? Maybe not Tony! Michael Foot was called Dingle Foot.

:36:13.:36:17.

I love the Labour because it accepts everybody from me to Len McCluskey.

:36:18.:36:21.

We are a big, broad happy family on our way to Government. Thank you

:36:22.:36:24.

very much. our way to Government. Thank you

:36:25.:36:29.

You're watching The Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers in

:36:30.:36:34.

Scotland who leave us for Sunday politics Scotland. In over 20

:36:35.:36:51.

A warm and springlike welcome to you. This week are government

:36:52.:36:57.

welfare reforms increasing poverty? We asked the Archbishop of

:36:58.:37:05.

Newcastle. We are in Cumbria meeting residents who say they are getting a

:37:06.:37:10.

raw deal. We have the man recently named a rising star, James Wharton.

:37:11.:37:18.

With him the woman tried to hit the high spots, . The government's

:37:19.:37:32.

welfare reforms are causing concerns. 27 Anglican bishops signed

:37:33.:37:37.

a letter blaming welfare cuts and failure is in the benefit system for

:37:38.:37:40.

the increase in the use of the banks. Now the Bishop of Newcastle

:37:41.:37:45.

has also signed a letter and he as been speaking to us. I believe one

:37:46.:37:50.

of the marks of a civilised society is how well we care for the progress

:37:51.:37:58.

and most fun rubble and midst. `` vulnerable. The fact that people are

:37:59.:38:02.

having to resort to such measures, they are on the breadline, that is

:38:03.:38:08.

an indictment on is all I think. Part of me thinks to myself we

:38:09.:38:12.

should be ashamed of ourselves to allow this to happen. Yes, we have

:38:13.:38:17.

got a crisis. And I think that the food banks are merely putting as ``

:38:18.:38:29.

a plaster over the wound. If you have David Cameron note `` standing

:38:30.:38:35.

in front of you, what would you say to him? Please take a look at it.

:38:36.:38:43.

The government says it's reforms are giving people new hope and freeing

:38:44.:38:50.

them from a cycle of dependency. One MP said that David Cameron should

:38:51.:38:54.

make that clear to critics in the clergy. There is nothing

:38:55.:39:09.

particularly wrong about pouring more even borrowed money into

:39:10.:39:12.

systems which contract people in poverty and trap them into

:39:13.:39:19.

dependence. Is the church right to get involved in such a controversial

:39:20.:39:23.

and political debate? Who has the moral high ground when it comes to

:39:24.:39:33.

these changes? Punishing the Pru, do you take note of them? `` the poor.

:39:34.:39:43.

Relative child poverty has decreased to the lowest level since 1986. We

:39:44.:39:48.

have to reform welfare because it was trapping people on benefits.

:39:49.:39:54.

There is nothing dispiriting than getting trapped on benefits and

:39:55.:39:58.

state holding you back rather than helping you go forward. It is right

:39:59.:40:03.

that benefit should be there for those who need it. The clergy may be

:40:04.:40:12.

more clued up than the government. They are seeing in reality what is

:40:13.:40:18.

happening with your policies. No one is arguing that we have gone through

:40:19.:40:24.

a very difficult economic period. The poorest have been made to

:40:25.:40:30.

suffer. 1.3 million people I know in work. We see relative child poverty

:40:31.:40:35.

decreasing to levels not seen before the 1980s. The government is helping

:40:36.:40:41.

those who want to get into work, get into work. Are they wrong? They are

:40:42.:40:48.

telling one side of the story. There is nothing moral and leaving people

:40:49.:40:54.

and welfare. It is good for the people and the taxpayer. There is

:40:55.:40:57.

nothing moral about leaving people in welfare. They want to change a

:40:58.:41:05.

system that will lift people with no incentives to get out of benefits.

:41:06.:41:09.

Everyone wants to bring the welfare bill down. The way we do it as the

:41:10.:41:16.

key. Bedroom tax, people have been forced to use the food bank is a

:41:17.:41:20.

moral in my opinion. For the first time ever, there are more children

:41:21.:41:25.

living in poverty and working families than ever before. After

:41:26.:41:30.

Labour took 1 million people out of poverty, there are more no going

:41:31.:41:34.

back into poverty. The focus is getting people back into work. That

:41:35.:41:39.

is the key route out of getting people `` of getting people out of

:41:40.:41:44.

poverty. It is the right type of work as well. It is not people in

:41:45.:41:49.

part`time jobs looking for full`time jobs. Not having working tax

:41:50.:42:05.

benefits paying as... It is not just people and work `` out of work true

:42:06.:42:15.

in poverty, it is people who are in work. We want more, we have a long

:42:16.:42:23.

way to go, particularly in regions in the north`east where unemployment

:42:24.:42:28.

has been high for generations. Steel`making is back in Teeside.

:42:29.:42:32.

This government is bringing jobs to this region. The bishops are still

:42:33.:42:37.

concerned. They are concerned that the system is not working right.

:42:38.:42:40.

There are gaps were people get no benefits. Nobody should be left with

:42:41.:42:45.

a gap where they do not get any benefits. It is not happening on a

:42:46.:42:51.

huge scale, where it is happening, people should get advice and sort

:42:52.:42:55.

out what the problem is. We have a functioning welfare system that

:42:56.:42:58.

looks after people who need it. It does not do everything it needs to

:42:59.:43:03.

do to help people get into work. If somebody finds that it does not work

:43:04.:43:07.

for them, it is important they go and see their MP or citizens and

:43:08.:43:13.

bass to get help. `` citizens advice. Do you think people should

:43:14.:43:30.

be paid more? There are people being attacked by their welfare reforms.

:43:31.:43:33.

It is standing up for everybody. James talks about all these jobs

:43:34.:43:37.

that have been created. If they are not enough to subsidise a family and

:43:38.:43:41.

paid for your family, it is not a good enough job.

:43:42.:43:46.

If you live in a rural area like Cumbria, Northumbria or North

:43:47.:43:51.

Yorkshire, you will earn less than you live in a city. The amount spent

:43:52.:43:56.

on your local services will be lower as well. MPs representing these a

:43:57.:44:03.

want that to change and they are supporting a rural campaign for

:44:04.:44:07.

fairer share. This is one of the's jobs. She runs

:44:08.:44:13.

a mobile hairdressing business, works as a provincial photographer

:44:14.:44:22.

and is a trained firefighter. `` professional. Most people like you

:44:23.:44:28.

talk to now have more than one job. The reason is because bills are

:44:29.:44:33.

high, fuel is a huge thing. You have to spend a lot on fuel to travel

:44:34.:44:38.

around remote areas. To make ends meet you need four or five jobs to

:44:39.:44:42.

pay the wages because nobody takes people on full time any more. They

:44:43.:44:47.

are all part`time jobs, there is nothing permanent and full`time.

:44:48.:44:50.

That is why I have four different jobs. This is the most sparsely

:44:51.:44:57.

populated district. Council tax is high and so is the cost for

:44:58.:45:04.

providing local services. It is a basic service but it eats up council

:45:05.:45:08.

cash. What we want is a level playing field. I think it is not

:45:09.:45:15.

difficult to see how the costs of services in our area differ if you

:45:16.:45:19.

take collecting refuse. The truck that has been down here to do ``

:45:20.:45:25.

today will have travelled 75 miles today. There are plenty of benefits

:45:26.:45:29.

to living in the countryside, all this praise glorious views and fresh

:45:30.:45:34.

air. But there are downsides to when it comes to local services. Rural

:45:35.:45:39.

councils receive far less funding than their urban counterparts.

:45:40.:45:43.

Cumbria and Northumberland to get just over ?940 a head. Well

:45:44.:45:52.

Newcastle and its `` Gateshead get 1040. This man travels around the

:45:53.:45:56.

region doing sheep shearing. He is fed up getting a raw deal. Not

:45:57.:46:02.

getting as good as service as urban areas as the county the county. No

:46:03.:46:06.

street lights, bus routes are nonexistent. The do not run that

:46:07.:46:14.

often, our closest is 2.5 miles away, it is potentially going to

:46:15.:46:19.

close. Our roads of the last ones to get gritted and called weather. With

:46:20.:46:24.

all local authorities losing money in the recent years, the argument

:46:25.:46:31.

for equality is clear, the fight to win it could get messy.

:46:32.:46:37.

The MP for Penrith is supporting rural fairer share campaign. What

:46:38.:46:44.

changed you want to see here? What we would like is a commitment from

:46:45.:46:48.

the government that over a five`year period they rebalance this, they

:46:49.:46:53.

begin to get a fairer deal for rural areas so we get something closer

:46:54.:46:58.

power had to what urban areas get. We understand this will be difficult

:46:59.:47:01.

for urban areas because they will lose. We would like to see a

:47:02.:47:04.

direction of travel, we would like to see the government say this is

:47:05.:47:11.

planned over the five years and we want to close up the gap. Are you

:47:12.:47:18.

going to say that you are going to take money from the urban areas and

:47:19.:47:23.

give it to the countryside? We have to be clear that these things are

:47:24.:47:27.

difficult to measure. There is deprivation in urban areas but you

:47:28.:47:30.

must not underestimate the problem is rural areas are facing. Our homes

:47:31.:47:35.

are very difficult to heat because they are old`fashioned homes. We pay

:47:36.:47:41.

more on fuel, people are far away from schools and shops. We pay more

:47:42.:47:47.

in council tax and we receive less and services. So we cannot get into

:47:48.:47:52.

a world where we feel that the only people who are struggling urban

:47:53.:47:55.

areas. Rural areas also have a tough time. Your government is full of

:47:56.:48:01.

rural representatives, they would say they are parties of the

:48:02.:48:12.

countryside, one council lost ?800,000 from this one. It was ?24

:48:13.:48:16.

million in funding this year. It will not make a lot of difference.

:48:17.:48:20.

The amount of government money we get is not enough. We need to change

:48:21.:48:24.

the formula. The way the decisions are made need to change. In the long

:48:25.:48:31.

run I believe that we need to take more control of our own finances. We

:48:32.:48:35.

need a more clear relationship between the amount of money we pay a

:48:36.:48:40.

tax and the services we receive. The time is coming when we need to look

:48:41.:48:45.

more at an American model where we have more localism, where we have

:48:46.:48:48.

more control in an area of our finances. The key is the money. Your

:48:49.:48:54.

government has been in power three years, and so far it is chicken

:48:55.:48:58.

feed. That is the message. And it is not changing. Exactly will stop and

:48:59.:49:03.

we need them to change. Why are they not changing? It is because the

:49:04.:49:08.

urban areas are saying we have huge deprivation and they are reluctant

:49:09.:49:13.

to lose anything. If you look at NHS funding at the moment, it is

:49:14.:49:17.

difficult to change the status quo, because every time to `` you make it

:49:18.:49:24.

more equitable, the people who lose that are very angry. We have this

:49:25.:49:28.

incredible problem that will only be resolved when we get out of central

:49:29.:49:32.

government playing God and deciding how much an urban or rural area gets

:49:33.:49:37.

I'm giving more control to the local area saw local councils raised local

:49:38.:49:43.

taxes and to local spending. I know you feel passionately about this. It

:49:44.:49:51.

was dominated lately by the bedroom tax, whether Scotland should be

:49:52.:49:56.

independent. You think it is between love between the two countries and

:49:57.:50:00.

sentiment. The only thing that will keep us together as remembering we

:50:01.:50:05.

are family. You cannot say when a family is breaking apart that you

:50:06.:50:09.

say it is going to be too expensive. You need to be to say we

:50:10.:50:13.

will miss you. What I would like to see where everybody, Northumbria and

:50:14.:50:19.

Cumbria, finds a way of saying, in an understated, funny, British way,

:50:20.:50:27.

not pompous, we may have our differences, but in the end we love

:50:28.:50:31.

you. Rory Stewart, thank you. This week the government revealed

:50:32.:50:35.

its new strategy on child poverty and says it is still committed to

:50:36.:50:40.

eliminating it by 2020. But Labour is not convinced. Alan Milburn says

:50:41.:50:46.

coalition policy is making it worse. It is a target that will be

:50:47.:50:53.

missed by a country mile. Here we have some of the highest levels of

:50:54.:51:01.

child poverty. This is where I `` average incomes are less than

:51:02.:51:06.

national incomes. 67% of children live in poverty. In Newcastle's

:51:07.:51:16.

Westgate Ward, the figure is 59%. In Cumbria, four out of ten children in

:51:17.:51:24.

one area live in poverty. The work and pensions Secretary Iain Duncan

:51:25.:51:26.

Smith said those figures are discredited because they are linked

:51:27.:51:31.

to average incomes which go up and recently have gone down. He wants a

:51:32.:51:37.

better way of measuring child poverty. Money is always going to be

:51:38.:51:51.

an issue about what you do with that money is important. If you do not

:51:52.:51:56.

get your kids to school, if you do not get children to school, they do

:51:57.:51:59.

not have a way out of poverty any way. We have to start with where

:52:00.:52:04.

these children are and help their parents to getting them to school in

:52:05.:52:08.

the morning. They need to know it is the most important thing they can do

:52:09.:52:12.

for them, safety and schooling, that is what it is all about. That is not

:52:13.:52:17.

about a check, that is about a way of life. To have one child poverty

:52:18.:52:23.

measure light Labour dead, is simplistic. Relative income can

:52:24.:52:27.

change according to circumstances. It does not matter if a mother has a

:52:28.:52:32.

heroin addiction, you cannot use just that. We need to do something

:52:33.:52:41.

about child poverty instead and something more practical. The

:52:42.:52:45.

projected figures there, there will be another 400,000 children in

:52:46.:52:48.

poverty by the end of this government. I was talking to someone

:52:49.:52:53.

from my local food bank and there are 300 referrals that the moment to

:52:54.:52:58.

the food bank in parallel. We need to do something about it because

:52:59.:53:02.

there are children involved and that as well. James Wharton, the

:53:03.:53:06.

statistics we had about this region are depressing. There are no size it

:53:07.:53:12.

is getting better, is there? 100,000 fewer children in relative poverty.

:53:13.:53:19.

We are all being paid less. This is what Iain Duncan Smith is saying.

:53:20.:53:25.

The whole measure is wrong. Money is important but if we need to look at

:53:26.:53:28.

a whole range of factors that influence how a child is made ``

:53:29.:53:33.

brought up. If you have more money, whether your parents spend it on

:53:34.:53:38.

alcohol, drugs or satellite television, that will not let you

:53:39.:53:42.

out of poverty. We need an intelligent and sensible approach.

:53:43.:53:51.

It is going to get `` to be about getting people off benefits. We have

:53:52.:53:57.

the Universal Credit which is in chaos. It is not in courage in, is

:53:58.:54:07.

it? You cannot have it both ways. The reality is that we are seeing

:54:08.:54:10.

people being lifted out of poverty by getting people back into work.

:54:11.:54:15.

That is what we have to do as a government. We are heading in the

:54:16.:54:20.

right direction, we have to continue to do that. Where people need

:54:21.:54:24.

support, the welfare system must give them that. Lee Sheriff, your

:54:25.:54:32.

government `` party wants to be in government beyond 2015. With the

:54:33.:54:40.

welfare reform, if their family have sanctioned their benefits, it is the

:54:41.:54:46.

children that will suffer. There is no more money. Can you eradicate

:54:47.:54:52.

child poverty by 2020? The last Labour government proved it. There

:54:53.:54:57.

were 1 million children taken out by `` out of poverty. There are 400,000

:54:58.:55:08.

going back in there. Where you have working people who are still in

:55:09.:55:13.

poverty. So more state subsidy? Again it comes down to the

:55:14.:55:17.

employees. If people are working, they need to have waged to allow the

:55:18.:55:22.

family to live so there is less need for tax credits which brings down

:55:23.:55:28.

the welfare as well. You are never going to reach this target, so why

:55:29.:55:32.

bother with it? It is never a bad thing to have a target to reduce

:55:33.:55:37.

child poverty. We must understand child poverty in a mature and they

:55:38.:55:44.

are away. It is about what it means to that child and what it means to

:55:45.:55:49.

that child's life. I would not like the government to scrap it. Some

:55:50.:55:53.

signs are that it is getting better. The solution will not be

:55:54.:55:57.

Labour's solution to throw more money at it. There is no money

:55:58.:56:02.

there. One police force covers the whole of Scotland. Do we need three

:56:03.:56:06.

in the north`east? That is one question being at as the area is

:56:07.:56:12.

looking at ways of reducing costs in this region.

:56:13.:56:23.

Labour's floating the idea of merging police forces. Chris Leslie

:56:24.:56:27.

said the current structure 43 separate forces may not be

:56:28.:56:33.

affordable in the future. Robert Goodwill who is the MP for

:56:34.:56:37.

Scarborough and Whitby was at Newcastle airport to launch a new

:56:38.:56:44.

business park. It is a good example of how an effective and successful

:56:45.:56:47.

regional airport can be part of the whole economy. The water in `` this

:56:48.:56:59.

MP said selling services should have an impact on jobs in Durham. It

:57:00.:57:04.

could lose more jobs and its new budget. The north`east is to get an

:57:05.:57:13.

extra ?7 million to extensive fast broadband. Extend its.

:57:14.:57:27.

Would you be prepared to see police forces merged if it would save

:57:28.:57:37.

jobs? We need to find out how it will work most effectively. It is it

:57:38.:57:42.

`` is it something you could stomach if it was merged? It is something we

:57:43.:57:46.

have said we would look at. But you personally, would you justify that

:57:47.:57:52.

to your constituents? If the consultation said it was the best

:57:53.:57:56.

way to go forward, then yes. You said Cleveland police are in the

:57:57.:58:01.

last chance alone. I am not convinced about having saying a ``

:58:02.:58:16.

is single regional police force. Their management has staggered from

:58:17.:58:21.

one disaster to another. He seems more interested in appointing people

:58:22.:58:29.

at ?85,000 a year to manage it. The public generally do not want to see

:58:30.:58:41.

the `` their police forces merged. In Cleveland police force, we are

:58:42.:58:49.

still seeing problems. The new chief constable is trying to get to grips

:58:50.:58:52.

with that. If there are more problems there, there may be a need

:58:53.:59:00.

for change and this could be it. Could you merge police forces and

:59:01.:59:04.

still keep the local knowledge? If you have a police constable based in

:59:05.:59:10.

Lancaster, it could be a problem? It is a case of looking at it and

:59:11.:59:15.

seeing how it could work. If we can work together without merging that

:59:16.:59:18.

could be the way to do it. It is something to look at, there are no

:59:19.:59:23.

definite and so is there, no definite decisions been made. That

:59:24.:59:28.

is it from us. If you want more from me, check out my blog. Next week we

:59:29.:59:36.

will be asking if the government's Government to change it. Thank you

:59:37.:59:41.

both for being here. Andrew, back to you.

:59:42.:59:49.

This week grant Shap said he wanted to rebrand the Tories as the

:59:50.:59:57.

workers' party to show it can reach out to

:59:58.:00:00.

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