Browse content similar to 29/06/2014. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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No surprise that Mr Cameron didn't get his way at the European summit. | :00:38. | :00:48. | |
But does it mean Britain has just moved closer to the EU exit? | :00:49. | :00:51. | |
Doctors want to ban smoking outright. | :00:52. | :00:54. | |
A sensible health measure or the health lobby's secret plan all | :00:55. | :00:57. | |
Could Teesside get its own Boris Johnson? | :00:58. | :01:11. | |
And old trains, run`down stations and poor journey | :01:12. | :01:14. | |
times ` can the Government get rail services back on track? | :01:15. | :01:28. | |
And with me, as always, the best and the brightest political | :01:29. | :01:31. | |
panel in the business Nick Watt Helen Lewis and Janan Ganesh. | :01:32. | :01:42. | |
They've had their usual cognac, or Juncker as it's known in | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
Luxembourg, for breakfast and will be tweeting under the influence | :01:46. | :01:47. | |
He's a boozing, chain-smoking, millionaire bon viveur who's made | :01:48. | :01:49. | |
it big in the world of European politic. | :01:50. | :01:51. | |
I speak of Jean-Claude Juncker, the former Prime Minister of Luxembourg | :01:52. | :01:55. | |
He'll soon be President of the European Commission, | :01:56. | :01:59. | |
He wasn't David Cameron's choice of course. | :02:00. | :02:05. | |
But those the PM thought were his allies deserted him and he ended up | :02:06. | :02:09. | |
on the wrong end of a 26-2 vote in favour of Arch-Fedrealist Juncker. | :02:10. | :02:24. | |
-- on the wrong end of a 26-2 vote in favour of Arch-Federalist | :02:25. | :02:27. | |
So where does this leave Mr Cameron's hopes | :02:28. | :02:29. | |
of major reform and repatriation of EU powers back to the UK? | :02:30. | :02:32. | |
Let's speak to his Europe Minister David Lidington | :02:33. | :02:37. | |
Welcome to the programme. The Prime Minister says that now with Mr | :02:38. | :02:44. | |
Juncker at the helm, the battle to keep Britain in the EU has got | :02:45. | :02:47. | |
harder. In what way has it got harder? For two reasons. The | :02:48. | :02:52. | |
majority of the leaders have accepted the process that shifts | :02:53. | :02:57. | |
power, it will not careful, from the elected heads of government right | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
cross Europe to the party bosses, the faction leaders in the European | :03:03. | :03:09. | |
Parliament and and the disaffection was made clear in many European | :03:10. | :03:18. | |
countries. Mr Juncker had a distinguished period as head of | :03:19. | :03:21. | |
Luxembourg, and was not a known reformer, but we have to judge on | :03:22. | :03:24. | |
how he leads the commission and there were some elements in the | :03:25. | :03:27. | |
mandate that the heads of government gave this week to the new incoming | :03:28. | :03:32. | |
European Commission that I think are cautiously encouraging for us. The | :03:33. | :03:37. | |
Prime Minister talked about those that not everybody wants to | :03:38. | :03:44. | |
integrate and to the same extent and speed. Let me just interrupt you. | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
What is new about saying that Europe can go closer to closer union at | :03:50. | :03:53. | |
different speeds? That has always been the case. It's nothing new | :03:54. | :04:02. | |
Indeed there are precedents, and they are good examples of the | :04:03. | :04:12. | |
approach as part of the course and one of the elements that the Prime | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
Minister is taking forward in the strategy is to get general | :04:18. | :04:20. | |
acceptance that while we agree that most of the partners have agreed to | :04:21. | :04:25. | |
the single currency will want to press forward with closer | :04:26. | :04:29. | |
integration of their economic and tax policies, but not every country | :04:30. | :04:34. | |
in the EU is going to want to do that. We have to see the pattern | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
that has grown up enough to recognise there is a diverse EU with | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
28 member states and more in the future. We won't all integrate the | :04:43. | :04:48. | |
extent. It is a matter of a pattern that is differentiation and | :04:49. | :04:53. | |
integration. I understand that. John Major used to call it variable | :04:54. | :04:56. | |
geometry, and other phrases nobody used to understand, but the point is | :04:57. | :05:01. | |
that you're back benches don't want any union at any speed, even in the | :05:02. | :05:04. | |
slow lane. They want to go in the other direction. It depends which | :05:05. | :05:10. | |
backbencher you talk to. There's a diverse range of views. I think that | :05:11. | :05:23. | |
there is acceptance that the core of the Prime Minister's approaches to | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
seek reform of the European Union, for renegotiation after the | :05:28. | :05:29. | |
election, then put it to the British people to decide. It won't be the | :05:30. | :05:34. | |
British government or ministers that take the final decision, it's the | :05:35. | :05:37. | |
British people, provided they are a Conservative government, who will | :05:38. | :05:40. | |
take the decision on the basis of the reforms that David Cameron | :05:41. | :05:43. | |
secures whether they want to stay in or not. Is there more of a chance, | :05:44. | :05:48. | |
not a certainty or probability, but at least more of a chance that with | :05:49. | :05:53. | |
Mr Juncker in that position of Britain leaving the EU? I don't | :05:54. | :05:59. | |
think we can say that at the moment. I think we can say that the task of | :06:00. | :06:03. | |
reform looks harder than it did a couple of weeks ago. But we have do | :06:04. | :06:11. | |
put Mr Juncker to the test. I do think he would want his commission | :06:12. | :06:23. | |
to be marked and I think that there is, and I find this in numbers | :06:24. | :06:28. | |
around Europe, and there is a growing recognition that things | :06:29. | :06:32. | |
cannot go on as they have been. Europe, economically, is in danger | :06:33. | :06:36. | |
of losing a lot of ground will stop millions of youngsters are out of | :06:37. | :06:40. | |
work already that reform. There is real anxiety and a number of | :06:41. | :06:43. | |
countries now about the extent to which opinion polls and election | :06:44. | :06:46. | |
results are showing a shift of support to both left and right wing | :06:47. | :06:51. | |
parties, sometimes outright neofascist movements, expressing | :06:52. | :06:53. | |
real content and resentment at Howard in touch -- how out of touch | :06:54. | :07:01. | |
decisions have become. You say you are sensing anxiety about the | :07:02. | :07:05. | |
condition of Europe, so why did they choose Mr Juncker then? You would | :07:06. | :07:11. | |
have to put that question to some of the heads of European government. | :07:12. | :07:17. | |
Clearly there were a number for whom domestic politics played a big role | :07:18. | :07:20. | |
in the eventual decision that they took. There were some who had signed | :07:21. | :07:28. | |
up to the lead candidate process and felt they could not back away from | :07:29. | :07:32. | |
that, whatever their private feelings might have been, but I | :07:33. | :07:37. | |
think the PM was right to say that this was a matter of principle and | :07:38. | :07:40. | |
it shouldn't just be left as a stitch up by the European Parliament | :07:41. | :07:45. | |
to tell us what they do. He said, I can't agree to pretend to acquiesce. | :07:46. | :07:50. | |
They have to make the opposition clear that go on with reform. Are | :07:51. | :07:55. | |
the current terms of membership for us unacceptable? The current terms | :07:56. | :08:02. | |
of the membership are very far from perfect. Are they unacceptable? The | :08:03. | :08:08. | |
current terms are certainly not ones that I feel comfortable with. The | :08:09. | :08:15. | |
Prime Minister described them as unacceptable. Do you think they are? | :08:16. | :08:20. | |
We look at the views of the British people at the moment. If you look at | :08:21. | :08:25. | |
the polling at the moment, the evidence is that people are split on | :08:26. | :08:28. | |
whether they think membership is a good thing. I'm asking what you | :08:29. | :08:38. | |
think. David Cameron wants to in -- endorse changes in our interest but | :08:39. | :08:41. | |
also because the biggest market is going to suffer if they don't | :08:42. | :08:46. | |
challenge -- grasp the challenge of political and economic reform. | :08:47. | :08:51. | |
Newsnight, Friday night, Malcolm Rifkind the former Secretary of | :08:52. | :08:55. | |
State said to me that even if the choice was to stay in on the | :08:56. | :08:58. | |
existing terms, he would vote to stay in on the existing terms. He | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
doesn't necessarily like them, but he would vote to stay in. That is | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
the authentic voice of the Foreign Office, isn't it? That is the | :09:07. | :09:09. | |
position of your department. Is it your position? Malcolm Rifkind is a | :09:10. | :09:16. | |
distinguished and independent minded backbencher. He's not in government | :09:17. | :09:22. | |
now. But that is your position. No, the position of the government and | :09:23. | :09:24. | |
the Conservative Party in the government is that we believe that | :09:25. | :09:29. | |
important changes, both economic and political reforms, are necessary and | :09:30. | :09:33. | |
that they are attainable in our interest and those of Europe as a | :09:34. | :09:37. | |
whole. Would you vote to stay in on the existing terms? That's not going | :09:38. | :09:44. | |
to be a question that the referendum. Really? I know that in | :09:45. | :09:49. | |
2017 Europe is going to look rather different to how it looks today For | :09:50. | :09:53. | |
one thing our colleagues in the Eurozone will want and need to press | :09:54. | :09:56. | |
ahead with closer integration. That, in our view, needs to be done | :09:57. | :10:00. | |
in a way that fully respects the rights of those of us who remain | :10:01. | :10:06. | |
outside. Variable geometry, tackling things like the abuse of freedom of | :10:07. | :10:10. | |
migration. Those are all in the conclusions from the leader this | :10:11. | :10:13. | |
week and we should welcome that Very briefly, finally, when will | :10:14. | :10:17. | |
you, as a government, give us the negotiating position of the | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
government? Will you give us what you hope to achieve before the | :10:22. | :10:24. | |
election or not? David Cameron set out very clearly in his Bloomberg | :10:25. | :10:31. | |
speech that he wanted a Europe that was more democratically accountable, | :10:32. | :10:36. | |
more flexible, more at it -- economically competitive. That is | :10:37. | :10:40. | |
all very general. When will you lay out the negotiating position? It's | :10:41. | :10:43. | |
not general. It is very far from general. We have seen evidence in | :10:44. | :10:48. | |
the successful cut of the European budget, the reform of fisheries | :10:49. | :10:54. | |
those reforms have started to take effect. We have won some victories | :10:55. | :10:58. | |
and I'm sure the Prime Minister as we get towards the general election, | :10:59. | :11:02. | |
will want to make clear what the Conservative Party position is, and | :11:03. | :11:05. | |
perhaps other political leaders will do the same for their party. Thank | :11:06. | :11:13. | |
you for joining us this morning The harsh reality of this is that there | :11:14. | :11:17. | |
is a yawning gap between what the Prime Minister can hope to bring | :11:18. | :11:21. | |
back and what will satisfy his Conservative backbenchers. Yes, I | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
think the Parliamentary Conservative Party is divided into three parts, | :11:26. | :11:30. | |
those who would vote to leave the EU regardless, those who would stay | :11:31. | :11:33. | |
regardless, and a huge middle ground of people who want to stay in on | :11:34. | :11:36. | |
renegotiated terms. These are not three equal parts. Those who would | :11:37. | :11:41. | |
vote to stay in regardless are smaller and smaller. Compared to 20 | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
years ago, tiny. But the people in the middle, generally, would only | :11:46. | :11:49. | |
stay in if you secure a renegotiation that will not be | :11:50. | :11:53. | |
re-secured. In other words, they are de facto, out by 2017 and the | :11:54. | :12:00. | |
referendum. This whole saga of the recent weeks has been the single | :12:01. | :12:03. | |
biggest economy in foreign policy under this government. That's not | :12:04. | :12:08. | |
what the voters think. -- single biggest ignominy. I mean the failure | :12:09. | :12:13. | |
to secure the target. The opinion polls show that standing up against | :12:14. | :12:17. | |
Mr Juncker has proved rather popular. I suggest that is not Mr | :12:18. | :12:21. | |
Cameron's problem. His problem is that, if in the end he gets only | :12:22. | :12:25. | |
because Medic changes, and if he says he still thinks that with these | :12:26. | :12:30. | |
changes -- cosmetic changes. And he says that they should stay in, that | :12:31. | :12:33. | |
would split the Tory party wide open. Eurosceptics say would be the | :12:34. | :12:39. | |
biggest split since the corn laws. He wants to protect the position of | :12:40. | :12:44. | |
coming out, and you might get that. He wants to crack down on abuse of | :12:45. | :12:52. | |
benefits, and he might get that He wants to restrict freedom of | :12:53. | :12:54. | |
movement for future member states, and that's difficult, because it is | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
a treaty change. And he wants to deal with closer union, but that is | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
also treaty change. In the Council conclusions, David Cameron was | :13:03. | :13:05. | |
encouraged because it said, let s look at closer union, but it did not | :13:06. | :13:10. | |
say it would reform. All it said was ever closer union can be interpreted | :13:11. | :13:14. | |
in different ways. In other words, we're not going to change it. The | :13:15. | :13:17. | |
fundamental problem the David Cameron was that two years ago, when | :13:18. | :13:28. | |
he vetoed the fiscal compact, that showed Angela Merkel was unwilling | :13:29. | :13:31. | |
to help them and what happened in the last two weeks was that Angela | :13:32. | :13:34. | |
Merkel was unable to help him. There is not a single leader of the | :13:35. | :13:36. | |
European Union that once Juncker as president, and he doesn't want it, | :13:37. | :13:40. | |
he wants the note take a job at the European Council. But there was this | :13:41. | :13:44. | |
basic stitch up by the European Parliament that meant he was | :13:45. | :13:47. | |
presented, and when Angela Merkel put the question over his head there | :13:48. | :13:51. | |
was a huge backlash in Germany and she was unable to deliver. I | :13:52. | :13:56. | |
understand that, but I'm looking forward to Mr Cameron's predicament. | :13:57. | :13:59. | |
I don't know how he squares the circle. It seems inconceivable that | :14:00. | :14:05. | |
he can bring back enough from Brussels to satisfy his | :14:06. | :14:10. | |
backbenchers. No, you can't. Most of them fundamentally want out. They | :14:11. | :14:14. | |
don't want to be persuaded by renegotiations. Where it's hard to | :14:15. | :14:17. | |
draw conclusions from the polling is that if you ask people question that | :14:18. | :14:21. | |
sounds like, do you like the fact that our Prime Minister has gone to | :14:22. | :14:24. | |
Brussels and stuck it to the man, they say yes, but how many people | :14:25. | :14:28. | |
will go to the voting booths and put their cross in the box based on | :14:29. | :14:33. | |
Europe? We know mostly voters care about Europe as a proxy for | :14:34. | :14:40. | |
immigration fears. In ten people in this country could not tell you who | :14:41. | :14:42. | |
John Claude Juncker is Angela Weir is replacing. -- and who he is | :14:43. | :14:44. | |
replacing. And I'm joined in the studio now by | :14:45. | :14:48. | |
arch-Eurosceptic Conservative MEP, Daniel Hannan and from Strasbourg by | :14:49. | :14:51. | |
staunch European and former Liberal war? His declared objectives would | :14:52. | :15:12. | |
leave Britain still in the common agricultural policy, the common | :15:13. | :15:16. | |
foreign policy, the European arrest warrant, so the negotiating aims | :15:17. | :15:24. | |
which we just heard Nick setting out wouldn't fundamentally change | :15:25. | :15:26. | |
anything. It would be easy for the Government to declare war on any of | :15:27. | :15:35. | |
these things. The danger from your point of view as someone who wants | :15:36. | :15:40. | |
to stay in is that if David Cameron only gets cosmetic changes, the | :15:41. | :15:44. | |
chance of getting the vote to leave the European Union increases, | :15:45. | :15:49. | |
doesn't it? Hypothetically it probably does but we have two big | :15:50. | :15:57. | |
things to get through first in domestic politics before we even | :15:58. | :16:03. | |
reach a negotiation. One is are we going to have the United Kingdom | :16:04. | :16:07. | |
this time next year following the referendum in Scotland? Secondly, | :16:08. | :16:13. | |
are the Conservatives after the general election next year going to | :16:14. | :16:18. | |
be in a position to pursue a negotiation? In other words are they | :16:19. | :16:23. | |
going to be a majority government or even a minority government? For the | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
sake of this morning let's assume the answer to both is yes, the UK | :16:29. | :16:33. | |
stays intact and against the polls they were saying this morning, David | :16:34. | :16:38. | |
Cameron forms an overall majority after the election. There is a | :16:39. | :16:42. | |
danger, if he doesn't bring much back, that people will vote yes | :16:43. | :16:50. | |
correct? There is that danger and I see a lot of the British press | :16:51. | :16:54. | |
comment this morning saying this could be a rerun of the Harold | :16:55. | :16:59. | |
Wilson like negotiation of the 1970s, a bit cosmetic but enough to | :17:00. | :17:04. | |
say we have got new terms and you should go with it. I think what is | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
different however, and this is really an appeal if you like, it | :17:09. | :17:14. | |
cannot just be left to the Liberal Democrats and coalition government | :17:15. | :17:18. | |
to make this case on our Rome. A lot of interest groups across the land | :17:19. | :17:24. | |
will have to start being prepared to put their head above the parapet on | :17:25. | :17:28. | |
the fundamental - do you want Britain to remain in the European | :17:29. | :17:34. | |
Union? Yes or no? Are you willing to put your public reputations on the | :17:35. | :17:38. | |
line? We are not getting enough of that at the moment and it is getting | :17:39. | :17:42. | |
dangerously close to closing time. Daniel Hannan, David Cameron will | :17:43. | :17:54. | |
not get away with this, will he It will be an acceptable to his party. | :17:55. | :18:00. | |
If it is an acceptable to Tory backbenchers it is because it is | :18:01. | :18:05. | |
working and they are reflecting what their constituents say. A majority | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
of people in the country are unhappy with the present terms. They can see | :18:11. | :18:14. | |
there is a huge wide world beyond the oceans and we have confined | :18:15. | :18:20. | |
ourselves to this small trade bloc. There is a huge debate to be had | :18:21. | :18:24. | |
about whether we could be doing better outside. It is not danger, it | :18:25. | :18:31. | |
is democracy, trusting people. If the only person offering a | :18:32. | :18:34. | |
referendum at the moment is the Prime Minister, it has serious | :18:35. | :18:40. | |
consequences for his party, your party, that's what I'm talking | :18:41. | :18:46. | |
about. I am very proud of being part of the party that is trusting people | :18:47. | :18:51. | |
to offer this. If he only gets cosmetic changes he cannot carry his | :18:52. | :18:57. | |
party. But ultimately it will not be his party, it is the electorate as a | :18:58. | :19:02. | |
whole that has to decide whether the changes are substantive. Everything | :19:03. | :19:06. | |
we have been hearing just now is about staying out of future | :19:07. | :19:11. | |
integration, protecting the role of the non-euro countries. People are | :19:12. | :19:15. | |
upset about what is going on today with the EU. They can see laws being | :19:16. | :19:20. | |
passed by people they cannot vote for, friendships overseas are | :19:21. | :19:25. | |
prejudiced, and they conceive that the European Union has just put in | :19:26. | :19:29. | |
charge in the top slot somebody who wants a United States of Europe into | :19:30. | :19:34. | |
which we will eventually be dragged into as some kind of Providence | :19:35. | :19:40. | |
Jean-Claude Juncker is a Federalist, you are Federalist, why did the Lib | :19:41. | :19:50. | |
Dems oppose him? We shared the view that whilst you take account of what | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
the members of the European Parliament say, ultimately the | :19:55. | :19:58. | |
choice of the presidency in the commission should be the political | :19:59. | :20:02. | |
leaders, the governmental leaders at a national level, and that's why we | :20:03. | :20:07. | |
went down the route we did. It was more to do with the system than the | :20:08. | :20:12. | |
individual. Although I would say that you need to bear in mind, I | :20:13. | :20:17. | |
mean Daniel, I respect him personally and the integrity of his | :20:18. | :20:22. | |
views, as I think he does mine, but to dismiss the European Union as a | :20:23. | :20:29. | |
small trading block globally, when you have got the United States of | :20:30. | :20:34. | |
America, China and other countries acknowledging its importance, it is | :20:35. | :20:44. | |
really Walter Mitty land. Are we closer than... Daniel Hannan, are we | :20:45. | :20:56. | |
closer to an exit after what happened last week? Yes, because the | :20:57. | :21:02. | |
idea that we could get substantive reforms, gets a mythic and powers | :21:03. | :21:11. | |
back and be within a looser, more flexible European Union has plainly | :21:12. | :21:19. | |
been closed off. We have to face up to the actual European Union that | :21:20. | :21:24. | |
has taken shape on our doorstep Are we going to be part of that or are | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
we going to have a much more semidetached, looser relationship | :21:30. | :21:33. | |
with it which we can either achieve via a unilateral system of power or | :21:34. | :21:46. | |
another way. This debate is never-ending, it is going on and on | :21:47. | :21:50. | |
and has bedevilled British prime ministers for as long as I can | :21:51. | :21:54. | |
remember. Shouldn't the Lib Dems change their stance on the | :21:55. | :21:59. | |
referendum yet again let's just have this in-out referendum and have it | :22:00. | :22:05. | |
sided one way or another? Our position remains clear. If there is | :22:06. | :22:10. | |
a constitutional issue put before us in terms of treaty changes then we | :22:11. | :22:17. | |
will have a referendum. Why not now? I am probably the wrong person to | :22:18. | :22:27. | |
ask because I argued and voted for a referendum on Maastricht because I | :22:28. | :22:32. | |
thought that was a constitutional treaty. Anything that makes the | :22:33. | :22:36. | |
Queen a citizen of the European Union surely has constitutional | :22:37. | :22:43. | |
implications. Anyway, 20 years on we are where we are and we need to | :22:44. | :22:47. | |
established common vocabulary. You talk about federalism. What do we | :22:48. | :22:55. | |
mean? Most of the people operating in the European Parliament and the | :22:56. | :22:58. | |
institution across the road, the Council of Europe, they mean by | :22:59. | :23:04. | |
federalism decentralisation of powers, not a Brussels superstate | :23:05. | :23:11. | |
but actually the kind of decentralisation that maintains | :23:12. | :23:14. | |
national characteristics and pools resources and sovereignty where it | :23:15. | :23:23. | |
makes sense. Mr Juncker, who is now going to be in charge of the | :23:24. | :23:27. | |
Brussels commission, he believes in a single EU reform policy, an EU | :23:28. | :23:38. | |
wide minimum wage and EU wide taxes. You said this week that you | :23:39. | :23:42. | |
liked the sound of Juncker federalism. Does that sound good to | :23:43. | :23:49. | |
you? No, and I think the new president of the commission will be | :23:50. | :23:52. | |
disappointed if he puts forward these views because although we only | :23:53. | :23:58. | |
had Hungary voting with us, I think if you go to other countries, | :23:59. | :24:03. | |
France, Poland, Scandinavia, they are not going to buy that kind of | :24:04. | :24:10. | |
menu. What they mean by federalism is the continental concept, also the | :24:11. | :24:15. | |
North American concept, that we can sit very happily... They have an | :24:16. | :24:23. | |
army, a federal police force, federal taxation. Yes, but in terms | :24:24. | :24:33. | |
of the political institutions which is what we are discussing here, you | :24:34. | :24:37. | |
can have the supranational, the European level, whilst still having | :24:38. | :24:41. | |
the very vibrant national, and indeed as we are practising in the | :24:42. | :24:46. | |
United Kingdom the subnational. A very brief final word from you, | :24:47. | :24:52. | |
Daniel. That is ultimately going to be the choice. The European Union is | :24:53. | :24:58. | |
an evolving dynamic, we can see the direction it is going in. Do we want | :24:59. | :25:03. | |
to be part of that? I suspect Charles Kennedy would have loved a | :25:04. | :25:07. | |
referendum. I cannot help but notice his party is going downhill since he | :25:08. | :25:23. | |
was running it. It is illegal to light up in the workplace, pubs and | :25:24. | :25:28. | |
restaurants. Now the British Medical Association has voted to outlaw | :25:29. | :25:31. | |
everywhere but not everybody at once. It would apply to anyone born | :25:32. | :25:37. | |
after the year 2000. In a moment we will debate the merits of those | :25:38. | :25:41. | |
plans but first he is Adam. There was a time when to be British | :25:42. | :25:48. | |
was to be a smoker. 1948 was the year off peak fag with 82% of men | :25:49. | :25:53. | |
smoking mainly cigarettes but it was a pipe that Harold Wilson used as a | :25:54. | :25:58. | |
political prop to help with the hard-hitting interviews they did in | :25:59. | :26:02. | |
those days. The advertisements make out pipe smokers to be more virile, | :26:03. | :26:12. | |
more fascinating men than anybody else. Do you thought -- have that | :26:13. | :26:17. | |
thought anywhere in your mind? No. It changed in 2006 when smoking in | :26:18. | :26:28. | |
enclosed places was banned. I would rather be inside but unfortunately | :26:29. | :26:32. | |
we have got to do what this Government tells us to do. I think | :26:33. | :26:38. | |
it is good, it is calm and you can breathe. Research suggests it has | :26:39. | :26:44. | |
improved the health of bar workers no end and reduced childhood asthma. | :26:45. | :26:48. | |
Now just one in five adults is a smoker. Coming next, crackdowns on | :26:49. | :26:54. | |
those newfangled e-cigarettes, smoking in cars and possibly the | :26:55. | :26:59. | |
introduction of plain packaging There is still those who take pride | :27:00. | :27:06. | |
in smoking and see it as a war on freedom. | :27:07. | :27:19. | |
We're joined now by Dr Vivienne Nathanson | :27:20. | :27:22. | |
from the British Medical Association who voted for a graduated ban | :27:23. | :27:25. | |
on smoking at their conference last week, and Simon Clark | :27:26. | :27:29. | |
They're here to go head-to-head There are plenty of things which are | :27:30. | :27:38. | |
bad for our health, why single out cigarettes? We need some sugar in | :27:39. | :27:48. | |
our diets but the fact is that we need to stop people smoking as | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
children because if we can do that, the likelihood that they will start | :27:53. | :27:57. | |
smoking is very small. In no circumstances is smoking good for | :27:58. | :28:02. | |
you. There are lots of smokers who live long, healthy lives but we | :28:03. | :28:06. | |
totally accept smoking is a risk to your health and adults have to make | :28:07. | :28:11. | |
that decision, just as you make the decision about drinking alcohol | :28:12. | :28:16. | |
eating fatty foods and drinking sugary drinks. This proposal is | :28:17. | :28:20. | |
totally impractical. It will create a huge black market in cigarettes | :28:21. | :28:25. | |
which will get bigger every year. They say this is about stopping | :28:26. | :28:28. | |
children smoking but there is already a law in place that stops | :28:29. | :28:34. | |
shopkeepers from selling cigarettes to children. This target adults so | :28:35. | :28:39. | |
you could have the bizarre situation in the year 3035 for example where a | :28:40. | :28:45. | |
36-year-old can go into shops to buy cigarettes but if you are 35 you | :28:46. | :28:50. | |
will be denied that, which is ludicrous. The point is that the | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
younger you start smoking the more likely you will become heavily | :28:55. | :28:58. | |
addicted. I take the point, but the point he is saying is that if this | :28:59. | :29:04. | |
becomes law, down the road, if you go into shops to buy cigarettes you | :29:05. | :29:09. | |
would have to take your birth certificate, wouldn't you? We have | :29:10. | :29:13. | |
no idea how the legislation would be written but the key point is that if | :29:14. | :29:17. | |
we can stop young people from starting to smoke, we will in 2 | :29:18. | :29:23. | |
years have a whole group of people who have never smoked so you won't | :29:24. | :29:28. | |
have that problem of people who are smokers and they are now in their | :29:29. | :29:32. | |
20s and 30s. Or you will have a lot of younger people who get cigarettes | :29:33. | :29:36. | |
the way they currently get illegal drugs now. They are already getting | :29:37. | :29:39. | |
cigarettes illegally and we have to deal with that. We have got to get | :29:40. | :29:46. | |
better. The Government has not been able to stop it. We know this is | :29:47. | :29:56. | |
going to kill 50%... When you are 15 you think you will live for ever. | :29:57. | :30:01. | |
Indeed but they also do it as rebellion and because they see | :30:02. | :30:05. | |
adults and it is remarkably easy to buy cigarettes. Whatever the case is | :30:06. | :30:09. | |
for individual choice, won't most people agree that if you could stop | :30:10. | :30:14. | |
young people smoking, so that through the rest of their lives they | :30:15. | :30:17. | |
never smoked, that would be worth doing? You get 16 or 17-year-olds | :30:18. | :30:28. | |
who already do that. Is it worth trying? When the government | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
increased the age at which shopkeepers could sell from 16 to | :30:34. | :30:37. | |
18, we supported it. We don't support a ban on proxy purchasing, | :30:38. | :30:43. | |
we support reasonable measures, but this is unreasonable. This proposal | :30:44. | :30:46. | |
says a lot about the BMA, because this week the BMA also passed a | :30:47. | :30:52. | |
motion to ban the use of E cigarettes in public places. There | :30:53. | :30:55. | |
is no evidence that they are dangerous to health, so why are they | :30:56. | :30:59. | |
doing that? They are becoming a temperance society. This is not | :31:00. | :31:03. | |
about public health, it's an old-fashioned temperance society and | :31:04. | :31:06. | |
they have to get their act together because they are bringing the | :31:07. | :31:10. | |
medical profession into disrepute. We were having argument is about | :31:11. | :31:15. | |
things that people buy large accept, smoking in bars or public places, | :31:16. | :31:20. | |
but the real aim of the BMA was the total banning of cigarettes | :31:21. | :31:22. | |
altogether. This would suggest that that was true to claim that. It s | :31:23. | :31:28. | |
not about a ban, it's about a move to a country where nobody wants to | :31:29. | :31:33. | |
smoke and no one is a smoker. But it would be illegal to smoke. It would | :31:34. | :31:37. | |
be illegal to buy, not smoke, and there's a difference between two. So | :31:38. | :31:44. | |
even if I am born in the year 2 00, it would still be illegal to smoke, | :31:45. | :31:47. | |
just illegal to buy the cigarettes? Indeed. The point being that the | :31:48. | :31:54. | |
habit of smoking is very strongly linked to your ability to buy, so | :31:55. | :31:58. | |
that is why things like Price and availability and marketing are so | :31:59. | :32:02. | |
important. People will flood across the Channel with the cigarettes One | :32:03. | :32:06. | |
thing you will find is that throughout the world people is | :32:07. | :32:09. | |
looking at -- people are looking at the same kind of measures, and | :32:10. | :32:13. | |
different countries like Australia, they were the first with a | :32:14. | :32:17. | |
standardised packaging. Other countries will follow, because all | :32:18. | :32:20. | |
of us are facing the fact that we can't afford to pay for the | :32:21. | :32:26. | |
tragedy. There will be people waiting to flood the market with | :32:27. | :32:30. | |
cigarettes. This is nonsense. Thanks for both coming and going | :32:31. | :32:33. | |
head-to-head. "Unless we have more equal | :32:34. | :32:37. | |
representation, our politics won't be half as good as it should be " | :32:38. | :32:41. | |
So said David Cameron back in 2 09. So how's it going? | :32:42. | :32:43. | |
Well, you can judge the quality of the politics for yourself, | :32:44. | :32:45. | |
but we've been crunching the numbers to find out what | :32:46. | :32:48. | |
parliament might look like after the next year's general election. | :32:49. | :32:49. | |
Here's Giles. Politicians are elected to | :32:50. | :32:56. | |
Parliament to represent their constituents, but the make-up of | :32:57. | :32:59. | |
Parliament does not reflect society well at all the parties it. In 010 | :33:00. | :33:05. | |
more women and ethnic minority candidates entered Westminster but | :33:06. | :33:09. | |
not significantly more inner chamber still dominated by white males. | :33:10. | :33:17. | |
Looking at the current make-up of the Commons, Labour has 83 female | :33:18. | :33:23. | |
MPs, the Conservative have 47 women MPs, which is just over 47% -- and | :33:24. | :33:30. | |
the Lib Dems have 12% of the parties. All of the parties have | :33:31. | :33:34. | |
selected parliaments in those seats where existing MPs are retiring and | :33:35. | :33:37. | |
to fight seats at the next election, and they've all been | :33:38. | :33:40. | |
trying to up the number of women and ethnic minorities because discounts | :33:41. | :33:45. | |
and can be capitalised on. A picture tells a thousand words. Look at the | :33:46. | :33:50. | |
all-male front bench before us. And he says he wants to represent the | :33:51. | :33:55. | |
whole country. Despite the jibe the Labour Party know they have a long | :33:56. | :33:58. | |
way to go on the issue of being representative. So we | :33:59. | :34:10. | |
way to go on the issue of being look at this particular area of lack | :34:11. | :34:11. | |
of women and ethnic minorities. Women first. | :34:12. | :34:11. | |
In the most marginal, 40 have women candidates, that would mean if they | :34:12. | :34:43. | |
got just enough to win power, they would have 133 women, which is 1% | :34:44. | :34:49. | |
The Conservatives currently have 305 MPs and their strategy | :34:50. | :34:51. | |
at the next election is to concentrate on their 40 most | :34:52. | :34:54. | |
marginal seats, and the 40 seats most mathematically likely to turn | :34:55. | :34:56. | |
In those 40, 29 candidates have been selected | :34:57. | :35:00. | |
If they kept hold of their existing seats and won those 29 new ones | :35:01. | :35:05. | |
they would have 56 women MPs, around 17%, and up 2% from last time. | :35:06. | :35:09. | |
The Liberal Democrats are fighting to hold on to the 57 seats they won | :35:10. | :35:12. | |
at the last election, if they manage that, they would have | :35:13. | :35:15. | |
However all the indications are it could be | :35:16. | :35:20. | |
a bad night for the Lib Dems, if they lost 20 seats, on a uniform | :35:21. | :35:24. | |
swing it would leave them with just four women, 11% of the party. | :35:25. | :35:29. | |
One Conservative peer who thinks the party needs to look at all | :35:30. | :35:33. | |
options if it's female numbers go down in 2015, says Parliament is | :35:34. | :35:36. | |
The bottom line is, if 50% of our population is not being looked at | :35:37. | :35:51. | |
evenly, are we really using the best of our talent? And yes, women's life | :35:52. | :35:58. | |
experiences are different. They are not superior, they are not inferior. | :35:59. | :36:01. | |
They are different. But surely those life experiences need to be | :36:02. | :36:03. | |
represented here at Westminster So that's the Parliamentary | :36:04. | :36:07. | |
projection for gender, According to the last census | :36:08. | :36:09. | |
in 2011, 13% of people in the UK Labour currently has 16 MPs from | :36:10. | :36:15. | |
black, Asian or minority ethnic backgrounds or just over 6%, if they | :36:16. | :36:20. | |
get their extra 68 seats that figure would go up to 26, 8% of their party | :36:21. | :36:24. | |
were from BAME backgrounds. The Tories currently have 11 BAME | :36:25. | :36:28. | |
candidates, or 4% of the party. If they get an extra 29 seats, | :36:29. | :36:35. | |
that would mean 14 BAME MPs, The Liberal Democrats | :36:36. | :36:38. | |
don't have any BAME MPs. If they manage to cling | :36:39. | :36:47. | |
on to their current number of seats they would have two, | :36:48. | :36:52. | |
giving them a proportion of 4%. If they lost | :36:53. | :36:55. | |
their 20 most vulnerable seats, But even if you changed the mix | :36:56. | :36:57. | |
of gender and ethnicity in Parliament would that solve | :36:58. | :37:07. | |
the problem? Probably not. Only 10% of us have gone to | :37:08. | :37:09. | |
a private fee paid school. A Quarter of all Mps went to Oxford | :37:10. | :37:13. | |
or Cambridge. Only a fifth | :37:14. | :37:22. | |
of us went to any university. There is a huge disillusionment with | :37:23. | :37:29. | |
the political elite due to the fact that these people don't look like | :37:30. | :37:33. | |
us. They don't speak like us, they don't have our experiences and they | :37:34. | :37:36. | |
cannot communicate in a way we relate to. If you look at the | :37:37. | :37:41. | |
turnout, at the moment, if you are an unskilled worker, you are 20 | :37:42. | :37:44. | |
points less likely to turn and vote than a middle-class professional and | :37:45. | :37:47. | |
that is getting worse with single election. | :37:48. | :37:49. | |
And that's the key, evidence does suggest that if a | :37:50. | :37:52. | |
Party reflects the society it exists within, it is more likely to get | :37:53. | :37:55. | |
It's just gone 11.35pm, you're watching the Sunday Politics. | :37:56. | :38:04. | |
We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland who leave us now | :38:05. | :38:07. | |
Coming up here in 20 minutes, we'll have more from the panel. | :38:08. | :38:11. | |
First though, the Sunday Politics where you are. | :38:12. | :38:20. | |
Hello and a warm welcome to your local part of the show. | :38:21. | :38:22. | |
We're talking trains this wdek ` and taking a journey in West Culbria. | :38:23. | :38:26. | |
Passenger groups say lines like this are being neglected with old | :38:27. | :38:30. | |
Does the Government have a plan to do something about it | :38:31. | :38:35. | |
Who better to ask than the Transport Minister ` Scarborough and Whitby | :38:36. | :38:39. | |
Conservative MP Robert Goodwill ` he's with me in the studio. | :38:40. | :38:42. | |
With him, a member of Labour's Treasury team, Newcastle North's | :38:43. | :38:45. | |
But let's start with a new transport project ` High Speed Rail. | :38:46. | :38:52. | |
The Chancellor George Osborne this week floated the idea of HS3, | :38:53. | :38:55. | |
But just like HS2 from London to Birmingham, it wouldn't go | :38:56. | :39:01. | |
That's not good enough according to Cumbrian MP Tim Farron who wants | :39:02. | :39:06. | |
a more ambitious plan ` including a high speed line | :39:07. | :39:09. | |
Robert Goodwill, another high`speed rail link which is not coming | :39:10. | :39:27. | |
anywhere near us. That is not true. Because HS2 will go up to Bhrmingham | :39:28. | :39:34. | |
then form a Y `` a Y and cole to us. The trains will keep going tp | :39:35. | :39:45. | |
through leaves of the East Coast. Another high`speed link to cross | :39:46. | :39:51. | |
over into the Northeast? Thd Leeds and Manchester conurbations are two | :39:52. | :39:55. | |
powerhouses. We have committed to electrifying the line which will | :39:56. | :39:59. | |
have some benefits. But it hs a good idea to look at how we can love on | :40:00. | :40:04. | |
from HS2. People in Scotland have ideas and people in Wales as well. | :40:05. | :40:10. | |
That is decades away. We nedd to plan this. It is a major investment. | :40:11. | :40:15. | |
We need to look at where we can move on from HS2 for better investment. | :40:16. | :40:19. | |
The Chancellor has kicked the ball into play and we should kick it | :40:20. | :40:22. | |
around and see what the bendfits could be. Catherine McKinnell, plans | :40:23. | :40:29. | |
for HS3 have been welcomed by the Northeast Chamber of Commerce `` | :40:30. | :40:31. | |
change of commerce, which you welcome them? With a caveat. They | :40:32. | :40:41. | |
need to have benefits for the country north of Leeds. It `lmost | :40:42. | :40:45. | |
seemed like George Osborne had completely forgotten that this | :40:46. | :40:49. | |
reason exists. I think he h`s been trying to backpedal since the | :40:50. | :40:53. | |
announcement on Monday. We know that HS2 has taken a long time to | :40:54. | :40:57. | |
actually get on track. It is still not really on track. There has been | :40:58. | :41:02. | |
delayed. There have been huge increases in the cost of th`t | :41:03. | :41:07. | |
project. And so this talk of HS ultimately is jam tomorrow. But what | :41:08. | :41:14. | |
Labour going to do? They had no plans and they have no plans to go | :41:15. | :41:19. | |
beyond Leeds and Manchester? HS was a plan that was conceived under the | :41:20. | :41:24. | |
Labour government and we have seen huge delay in getting it gohng under | :41:25. | :41:30. | |
this government. We are going to set out our plans in the manifesto but | :41:31. | :41:34. | |
the ball is very much in thd government's court to get a grip on | :41:35. | :41:39. | |
HS2 rather than floating around pie in the sky idea about the ftture. We | :41:40. | :41:44. | |
would like to see HS2 on tr`ck and see the benefits actually rdach this | :41:45. | :41:47. | |
region which we did not hear the Chancellor even mention on Londay. | :41:48. | :41:52. | |
He mentioned Teeside, but not in connection with the railways. | :41:53. | :41:57. | |
Well, let's turn now to the state of our local railways | :41:58. | :42:00. | |
which is causing serious concern among passenger groups and LPs. | :42:01. | :42:02. | |
They point to trains that are nearly 30 years old, | :42:03. | :42:05. | |
inaccessible stations and ldngthy journey times on the Northern Rail | :42:06. | :42:07. | |
The Government says it'll invest ?1 billion over the next five xears | :42:08. | :42:11. | |
in making things better ` and has started a consultathon | :42:12. | :42:13. | |
This is the 9:38 from Carlisle to Lancaster via Barrow. | :42:14. | :42:21. | |
There is a fast train but this is the stopping tr`in. | :42:22. | :42:30. | |
It takes more than three and a half hours, | :42:31. | :42:32. | |
hugging the Cumbrian coastlhne as it chugs its way West, calling at | :42:33. | :42:35. | |
Many of the stations are by request only. | :42:36. | :42:42. | |
There is no ticket office hdre, or even a ticket machine. | :42:43. | :42:48. | |
You will not find any station staff and there are no public loos, | :42:49. | :42:51. | |
Many of the trains have been in service for decades, although some | :42:52. | :42:56. | |
Outside peak hours, they are rarely busy but regular | :42:57. | :43:00. | |
I think there could be an extra couple of trains late in thd day, | :43:01. | :43:06. | |
There is too big a gap between trains sometimes. | :43:07. | :43:10. | |
Yes, basically, somewhere to have a drink and amiable. | :43:11. | :43:14. | |
You can ask for whatever yot want, it wouldn't happen. | :43:15. | :43:17. | |
The latest National Rail Passenger Survey suggested continuing | :43:18. | :43:20. | |
dissatisfaction with Northern Rail, which runs the services. | :43:21. | :43:24. | |
Just 61% of those asked were satisfidd with | :43:25. | :43:27. | |
And only 64% said they were content with the cleanliness. | :43:28. | :43:34. | |
Both scores are lower than the national average. | :43:35. | :43:38. | |
Northern Rail said the figures are better than last year | :43:39. | :43:40. | |
and it is listening to customers and continuing to improve. | :43:41. | :43:44. | |
But among rail users, are were high hopes that whdn new | :43:45. | :43:47. | |
franchises start in 2016, they will deliver a much`needed make over | :43:48. | :43:52. | |
There is a crying need for new rolling stock. | :43:53. | :43:58. | |
You go down to the south and see the difference in condition. | :43:59. | :44:08. | |
It is vital for the economy of the area. | :44:09. | :44:10. | |
Lots of people use trains to get to hospitals in Hexham and Newcastle | :44:11. | :44:16. | |
For all sorts of reasons, we need a better service th`n now. | :44:17. | :44:22. | |
The ageing rolling stock and slow services are key targets for change. | :44:23. | :44:26. | |
Both on lines within Cumbri` and to the North East. | :44:27. | :44:30. | |
There are three specific areas where I think there c`n | :44:31. | :44:35. | |
One of them is the Carlisle to Newcastle route | :44:36. | :44:42. | |
We want the trains to stop `t very small stations along the rotte, but | :44:43. | :44:46. | |
we also want to see an exprdss line as well so there is a fast train. | :44:47. | :44:49. | |
There needs to be substanti`l investment because | :44:50. | :44:53. | |
the rolling stock is quite poor quality ` and of course connectivity | :44:54. | :44:56. | |
between Cumbria, between thd east and west and the north and south. | :44:57. | :44:59. | |
The government's consultation on rail services in the North runs | :45:00. | :45:02. | |
But with unions and campaigners already picking holes in thd | :45:03. | :45:08. | |
proposals, there is growing doubt that improvements that passdngers | :45:09. | :45:12. | |
Let's get the view of the unions. Is there room for hope there whll be a | :45:13. | :45:37. | |
big improvement? I don't sed any room for hope at all. One of the | :45:38. | :45:43. | |
things you need to ask Robert Goodwill today is whether the | :45:44. | :45:48. | |
trans`Pennine express services will continue to run from Scarborough in | :45:49. | :45:54. | |
his franchise proposals. Perhaps his colleagues Tim Farron would also | :45:55. | :45:57. | |
like to ask the DFT what is happening over the Windermere oxen | :45:58. | :46:03. | |
home service. That is under consultation as well, that could go | :46:04. | :46:12. | |
as well. Driver operated tr`ins `` driver only operated trains will be | :46:13. | :46:16. | |
the future and we think that is less customer focused. And also there's a | :46:17. | :46:23. | |
report over the horizon takhng away staff and ticket offices. And | :46:24. | :46:27. | |
another proposal is that he was to hand over stations to local | :46:28. | :46:29. | |
authorities which already cash`strapped. It is not workable. | :46:30. | :46:35. | |
So ?1 billion makes no diffdrence but your solution is to put this | :46:36. | :46:40. | |
into public hands. Out of that raise a single extra penny to improve | :46:41. | :46:46. | |
services? I think the railw`ys cost three or four times what thdy cost | :46:47. | :46:50. | |
under British rail when it was nationalised. The reality is that | :46:51. | :46:55. | |
the conservatives who privatise the railways and keep restructuring | :46:56. | :46:58. | |
them, because it is busy not working, one of the things H would | :46:59. | :47:03. | |
say is that we can stop thel taking money out in terms of these foreign | :47:04. | :47:08. | |
companies that run our railways The `` natural that the Dutch n`tional | :47:09. | :47:16. | |
railways and the German railways... But how can we raise the kind of | :47:17. | :47:20. | |
money to transform the servhces You have to have more public money. It | :47:21. | :47:24. | |
is not a matter of who owns it, it means more investment. You can't | :47:25. | :47:28. | |
make that argument unless you see how the railways funded at the | :47:29. | :47:33. | |
moment. And we are thinking about three or four times normallx than | :47:34. | :47:39. | |
British rail used. The forehgn`owned companies of Germany, Holland, the | :47:40. | :47:42. | |
examples we have in this arda, they take money out of the area that | :47:43. | :47:47. | |
could be used for rail investment. We already paying for the privatise | :47:48. | :47:51. | |
railways through the taxpaydr. We are saying it could be structured | :47:52. | :47:55. | |
better, publicly owned and publicly accountable. What we have got for | :47:56. | :47:59. | |
the Northern and Trans Pennhne franchises bad news all round. | :48:00. | :48:06. | |
Robert Goodwill, it is not just the RMT that are sceptical. The services | :48:07. | :48:12. | |
need improvement. Can you pdrsuade us that you have a plan for that? | :48:13. | :48:18. | |
Lets not forget that before the last election, there were people who were | :48:19. | :48:21. | |
saying we were embarking on a teaching style round of cuts and all | :48:22. | :48:27. | |
the stations would be shut down We have not done that. We have shown a | :48:28. | :48:31. | |
commitment to keeping local services. More than that, wd have | :48:32. | :48:35. | |
committed to a massive programme of electrification around the country | :48:36. | :48:38. | |
which means new electric tr`ins We are committed to electrifying 6 0 | :48:39. | :48:44. | |
miles of our rail network compared to eight miles from the previous | :48:45. | :48:49. | |
Labour government. We have ` ?3 billion package of improvemdnts to | :48:50. | :48:52. | |
our rail network. For specific services, what can you tell people | :48:53. | :48:58. | |
that will improve? Brisley, we have some very old rolling stock. Some of | :48:59. | :49:02. | |
it has been improved alreadx. We have a new station in Middldsbrough. | :49:03. | :49:07. | |
My constituents can get off at the hospital rather than travel | :49:08. | :49:10. | |
information is rough. And I would love to have a trains starthng in | :49:11. | :49:13. | |
Whidbey in the mornings so that people could come to work in | :49:14. | :49:20. | |
Middlesbrough. `` in which we. `` in Whitby. There are services that will | :49:21. | :49:35. | |
disappear, according to critics There is a service from Manchester | :49:36. | :49:39. | |
through to York. It is whether we have a train that runs on dhesel or | :49:40. | :49:43. | |
electric or whether we could increase the frequency of the | :49:44. | :49:46. | |
service from Scarborough into York. Not everybody who travels there goes | :49:47. | :49:50. | |
to Manchester. A lot of people get off and some of the complaints I get | :49:51. | :49:54. | |
from commuters going into York is that there is only one train and | :49:55. | :49:59. | |
hour at certain times of dax. Let's move it on. Catherine McKinnell | :50:00. | :50:04. | |
this has built up over decades. At least the coalition have a plan | :50:05. | :50:09. | |
What we need to see in this franchise plan is a commitmdnt, a | :50:10. | :50:13. | |
steady timetable and a promhse that this rolling stock will not | :50:14. | :50:19. | |
potentially be improved, but will actually be improved. These trains | :50:20. | :50:24. | |
are 30 years old. There is no heating in the winter. They are | :50:25. | :50:27. | |
totally inaccessible for people with mobility problems. We need to see a | :50:28. | :50:32. | |
proper guarantee that this rolling stock is going to be improvdd as | :50:33. | :50:37. | |
part of the franchising deal. It is all they get the moment in the | :50:38. | :50:42. | |
government's plans. What about the planned about `` what about the idea | :50:43. | :50:47. | |
of taking it into public ownership. Should Labour look at this? Craig | :50:48. | :50:52. | |
raise a very important point that a number of our railways incltding the | :50:53. | :50:58. | |
ones in Newcastle are run bx German state`owned railways. We have Dutch | :50:59. | :51:02. | |
owned railways, French owned railways. If we were in govdrnment, | :51:03. | :51:06. | |
we would not be rushing to put out to tender the East Coast Mahn Line | :51:07. | :51:10. | |
which by 2015 will have rettrned ?1 billion to the taxpayer. Wh`t about | :51:11. | :51:18. | |
other services. Would not bd rushing about `` we would be rushing for | :51:19. | :51:22. | |
ideological reasons to put the matter to tender. Would you put them | :51:23. | :51:28. | |
in public ownership? A statd`owned railway company could bid along with | :51:29. | :51:32. | |
other railway companies and bade against the foreign`owned state | :51:33. | :51:36. | |
companies to win the contract. At the moment, they are not actually | :51:37. | :51:40. | |
allowed to do that. We would change that. A final question. Would you | :51:41. | :51:44. | |
expect `` would you accept that there has been a huge imbal`nce in | :51:45. | :51:48. | |
spending between the north `nd south. The figures suggest ?200 per | :51:49. | :51:52. | |
head in London, ?5 per head in the North. Less is not forget that some | :51:53. | :51:57. | |
of the Crossrail `` let us not forget that some of the projects Lye | :51:58. | :52:03. | |
Cross well `` like Crossrail were planned by Labour. We bring it. We | :52:04. | :52:10. | |
are bringing investment back to the North. We are manufacturing train | :52:11. | :52:17. | |
plans in Sedgefield. Now London has too much powdr | :52:18. | :52:21. | |
and cities in the north need to work together | :52:22. | :52:23. | |
to compete with the capital. But this week it was coming | :52:24. | :52:26. | |
from George Osborne. He wants to create a | :52:27. | :52:29. | |
"northern powerhouse" with cities joining forces under elected mayors | :52:30. | :52:31. | |
in the style of Boris Johnson. And he's also promised more | :52:32. | :52:34. | |
investment in the north's science`based btsinesses | :52:35. | :52:35. | |
` if they come up with good ideas. So how have | :52:36. | :52:38. | |
the Chancellor's ideas gone down? Once known as I'm up a list, | :52:39. | :52:51. | |
Middlesbrough was a powerhotse. But it has some of the highest rates of | :52:52. | :52:58. | |
unemployment in the UK. The slow pace of regeneration here in | :52:59. | :53:03. | |
Middlesbrough is the way thd fact that it is not in northern | :53:04. | :53:07. | |
powerhouse. The Chancellor's solution is the choice of a Boris | :53:08. | :53:11. | |
Johnson style elected mayor not just for that as well, but for the whole | :53:12. | :53:16. | |
of the Teeside Valley. This man like the idea. He hopes to be | :53:17. | :53:21. | |
Middlesbrough's mayor next xear He says a beefed up Teeside version | :53:22. | :53:25. | |
could do much more. To have elected leaders trying to make decisions is | :53:26. | :53:32. | |
not the best way to do it. Things will work much better if thdre is a | :53:33. | :53:36. | |
Teeside wide body with one person at the top who is accountable `nd | :53:37. | :53:42. | |
responsible for taking big decisions, driving investment at a | :53:43. | :53:45. | |
level that affects everybodx, not just a tiny slice of the | :53:46. | :53:50. | |
conurbation. Would the region's voters be enthusiastic? Although | :53:51. | :53:57. | |
voters decided to keep their elected mayor, the three this year, voters | :53:58. | :54:02. | |
in Hartlepool got rid of thdirs In Darlington and in Newcastle, the | :54:03. | :54:05. | |
public have decided they did not want mayor is in charge of their | :54:06. | :54:11. | |
communities. Some think that the Chancellor's speech is more about | :54:12. | :54:14. | |
saving his team`mates and moving the north Bay division. He is in dire | :54:15. | :54:19. | |
need of political traction hn the north. He knows that the Tory brand | :54:20. | :54:24. | |
in the north and the North Dast in particular is toxic. He is doing | :54:25. | :54:28. | |
something for those regions where he has marginal MPs. I am afrahd that | :54:29. | :54:32. | |
the Chancellor is far too l`te and his MPs and those constituencies are | :54:33. | :54:37. | |
on a hiding to nothing. But the Chancellor also talked about | :54:38. | :54:40. | |
investment in cutting`edge science in places like this. Teesidd Centre | :54:41. | :54:44. | |
for process innovation is hdlping develop the technology to ttrn | :54:45. | :54:49. | |
rubbish into valuable fuel. It could create hundreds of jobs and he says | :54:50. | :54:56. | |
that this man says support for innovation capacity that produce a | :54:57. | :55:03. | |
positive reaction. We could get first`class academic capability and | :55:04. | :55:06. | |
full`scale industrial capabhlity and infrastructure in the sites that we | :55:07. | :55:09. | |
have. We are waiting for thdse opportunities and these jobs. With a | :55:10. | :55:14. | |
little help, Teeside's business leaders think they could be part of | :55:15. | :55:18. | |
a powerhouse. But they think that should include infrastructure | :55:19. | :55:21. | |
investment here and not just between Manchester and Leeds. We want to see | :55:22. | :55:26. | |
the opportunity for Middlesbrough to link with London, we won't | :55:27. | :55:28. | |
Darlington to have more frepuent stops on these Coast mainline. We | :55:29. | :55:34. | |
want is the electrification of the line through to Middlesbrough and to | :55:35. | :55:38. | |
Teesport. So there are several things on rail that we would want | :55:39. | :55:43. | |
but we would also lobby for whatever high`speed links are going to make | :55:44. | :55:48. | |
sure the North East is incltded 150 years ago, Middlesbrough was at the | :55:49. | :55:52. | |
centre of Britain's economic success. The Chancellor wants that | :55:53. | :55:56. | |
to be true today. Has he re`lly offered anything to fuel a | :55:57. | :56:13. | |
renaissance. Is this all data vu, Catherine McKinnell. What wd have | :56:14. | :56:21. | |
seen from this government is four years of sustained funding, things | :56:22. | :56:26. | |
shifted from areas in this region to areas in the south. We have seen | :56:27. | :56:31. | |
jobs in this region decreashng as a proportion of the number of jobs in | :56:32. | :56:36. | |
the whole economy. We have seen the North East lose out time and time | :56:37. | :56:41. | |
again. I share Tom Blenkinsop's cynicism about the timing of this | :56:42. | :56:44. | |
announcement. Ultimately, what we need to see is the local authority | :56:45. | :56:54. | |
groupings which were suggested as the replacements, it has taken a | :56:55. | :56:57. | |
long time to get them on thdir feet. And to bring investment to bring in | :56:58. | :57:03. | |
jobs to the area. They are only now just Artem to make progress. Labour | :57:04. | :57:11. | |
seems to be keen on these mdas. As an MP for Newcastle, could xou see | :57:12. | :57:19. | |
the advantage of a mayor covering that area? . Would you say, don t | :57:20. | :57:36. | |
think about mayor 's? It is unthinkable to the people. Hf a new | :57:37. | :57:39. | |
offer is put forward, it is up to people to think if that is what they | :57:40. | :57:46. | |
want. We need a strong regional voice to shout for investment. The | :57:47. | :57:51. | |
Chancellor's speech was short on detail. What powers would this may | :57:52. | :58:15. | |
have? I would like it to be somebody will like Boris Johnson with his | :58:16. | :58:19. | |
power. People always say whoever we vote for, the council gets Laginn. | :58:20. | :58:24. | |
But people feel they have pdople foisted on them. We would not foist | :58:25. | :58:32. | |
people on people. It comes down to the mayor is. You can have ` good | :58:33. | :58:36. | |
champion for a particular conurbation. We should look more | :58:37. | :58:41. | |
closely at this proposal. Pdople rejected John Prescott's big idea | :58:42. | :58:47. | |
and we need to keep it local. Somebody you can identify whth and | :58:48. | :58:56. | |
the buck. . I'm talking abott Boris! Labour going to make an announcement | :58:57. | :59:01. | |
which is raised similar, I suspect. If Labour makes out an annotncement | :59:02. | :59:06. | |
it will not leave out the entire Northeast. This is a very cxnically | :59:07. | :59:13. | |
timed announcement from the Chancellor and ultimately it is all | :59:14. | :59:19. | |
jam tomorrow. There is nothhng concrete in his proposals. There is | :59:20. | :59:23. | |
nothing that we can say, th`t will be grateful this region. We will | :59:24. | :59:25. | |
have to leave it there. The number of hospital admissions | :59:26. | :59:31. | |
as a result of eating disorders is 30% higher in the North East than | :59:32. | :59:34. | |
the national average. So plans to close | :59:35. | :59:37. | |
a specialist unit at the Roxal Victoria Infirmary in Newcastle were | :59:38. | :59:39. | |
likely to be controversial. It was taken up by a Tyneside MP | :59:40. | :59:41. | |
in the Commons this week. Here's Mark Denten with mord on that | :59:42. | :59:44. | |
and the rest of the week's news The problems caused | :59:45. | :59:50. | |
by shop closures in South Shields have been highlighted in thd Commons | :59:51. | :59:53. | |
by Emma Law Buck after Marks Spencer closed on King | :59:54. | :59:55. | |
Street after 80 years of tr`ding. An independent commission chaired | :59:56. | :00:00. | |
by the Bishop of Carlisle h`s called for benefit changes to reduce | :00:01. | :00:02. | |
the impact on vulnerable people The decision to close | :00:03. | :00:06. | |
down a specialist unit in Ndwcastle for eating disorders has bedn | :00:07. | :00:09. | |
criticised by Newcastle MP. She blamed it for sending pdople | :00:10. | :00:13. | |
to local units far from homd. That is how we have come to the | :00:14. | :00:19. | |
ridiculous and tragic situation of our National Health Service sending | :00:20. | :00:23. | |
vulnerable Tyneside patients to Glasgow, to Norwich, to London, when | :00:24. | :00:28. | |
there are empty beds in the centre And finally, | :00:29. | :00:33. | |
a new plan to transform the The ?74 million project aims to | :00:34. | :00:40. | |
create jobs And one extra bit of news from | :00:41. | :00:45. | |
West Cumbria. Where the | :00:46. | :00:54. | |
Workington MP Sir Tony Cunnhngham has announced he's to stand down | :00:55. | :00:56. | |
at the next General Election. He's been the MP | :00:57. | :00:59. | |
in the Labour seat since 2001. And that's about it from me | :01:00. | :01:03. | |
for this week. You can read more | :01:04. | :01:06. | |
about the northern powerhouse plans on my blog, and don't forget to | :01:07. | :01:08. | |
follow me on Twitter. Now though it's back to Andrew | :01:09. | :01:11. | |
for the rest of this week's show. been problems elsewhere in Europe, | :01:12. | :01:16. | |
but I take your point. Thanks to both of you today. Back to you, | :01:17. | :01:17. | |
Andrew. Now, there have been some | :01:18. | :01:23. | |
less-than-helpful remarks about the way the Labour party makes | :01:24. | :01:25. | |
policy, and they've come from the man who is heading Labour's | :01:26. | :01:27. | |
Policy Review, Jon Cruddas. In a speech to party activists he | :01:28. | :01:32. | |
was recorded saying that, "instrumentalised, cynical nuggets | :01:33. | :01:36. | |
of policy to chime with our focus groups and our press strategies and | :01:37. | :01:39. | |
our desire for a topline in terms of the 24 hour media cycle, | :01:40. | :01:42. | |
dominate and crowd out any He added that Labour's election | :01:43. | :01:45. | |
strategy was being hampered by a The shadow chancellor, Ed Balls | :01:46. | :01:55. | |
was asked about what Mr Cruddas had I talked to him a couple of days | :01:56. | :02:16. | |
ago, and he's not frustrated, he is excited about his policy agenda He | :02:17. | :02:22. | |
is frustrated that one report of 250 pages gets reduced down. So it's our | :02:23. | :02:27. | |
fault? That is the way we live in the world in which we live, but we | :02:28. | :02:32. | |
have big ideas about devolution long term infrastructure spending | :02:33. | :02:36. | |
and new manufacturing policy, new investment in skills, big changes | :02:37. | :02:40. | |
which, let's be honest, I'm really on George Osborne's agenda. How | :02:41. | :02:48. | |
serious is this? It is Wimbledon, so let's call it an unforced error You | :02:49. | :02:52. | |
go to the party speeches, and you don't know who is in the audience. | :02:53. | :02:56. | |
There is no need for something as serious as this to happen. It's | :02:57. | :03:00. | |
hugely serious because it speaks about something people have felt for | :03:01. | :03:03. | |
a long time, that they have doled out little nuggets of policy but no | :03:04. | :03:07. | |
overarching story. There was a quite saying the Ed Miliband has given as | :03:08. | :03:11. | |
a shopping list, not a narrative. When people in the party say things | :03:12. | :03:15. | |
that are true, it's very difficult for people to explain it away. Not | :03:16. | :03:20. | |
sure Mr Miliband can win here. He was recently criticised for not | :03:21. | :03:23. | |
having policies. Now he's being criticised for having too many. I | :03:24. | :03:28. | |
think this line of attack is particularly wounding because he | :03:29. | :03:30. | |
prides himself on being a politician of ideas. That is his unique selling | :03:31. | :03:36. | |
point, and the weight that David Cameron's prime ministerial nature | :03:37. | :03:41. | |
is his selling point. So it is wounding. If I was the Labour Party, | :03:42. | :03:44. | |
before announcing any policy, I would ask can help fix us on the | :03:45. | :03:50. | |
economy? It might be radicalised immolating on its own terms, but | :03:51. | :03:56. | |
it's politically useless. -- radical and innovative on its own terms I | :03:57. | :03:59. | |
don't think any member of the public does not think they are not radical | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
enough or creative enough. If anything, it's the opposite. They | :04:04. | :04:06. | |
are a bit nervous about what a Labour government could do and | :04:07. | :04:10. | |
nervous about the economic reputation. Reassurance, caution, | :04:11. | :04:14. | |
maybe a bit of timidity might be the notions that inform their policies | :04:15. | :04:18. | |
or should inform their policies in night -- my view, not the opposite. | :04:19. | :04:24. | |
I am worried for Jon Cruddas, because anyone who questions the | :04:25. | :04:27. | |
Labour Party are part of the nexus of the banking industry who are | :04:28. | :04:32. | |
terrified of a Labour victory. It's interesting that this goes to the | :04:33. | :04:34. | |
heart of the debate in the Labour Party, at the highest levels, do | :04:35. | :04:38. | |
they put a big offer to the British people, or a little off, John | :04:39. | :04:42. | |
Cruddas offer, or Douglas Alexander offer? Ed Miliband says that his | :04:43. | :04:49. | |
ideas about freezing energy prices and rent controls are a big offer, | :04:50. | :04:52. | |
but his policy chief clearly has real concerns that they don't go far | :04:53. | :04:57. | |
enough. How important a figure is John Cruddas in the project? He is | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
hell of the -- head of the policy review and has a huge amount of | :05:02. | :05:06. | |
power, and so him slagging off the policy review is a bad moment. He is | :05:07. | :05:12. | |
trusted in that inner circle and the problem for Ed Miliband from the odd | :05:13. | :05:15. | |
is that he has people with strong opinions, Maurice clasping is | :05:16. | :05:19. | |
another, big thinkers, but they maybe don't have a precaution that a | :05:20. | :05:24. | |
professional politician might have in terms of giving bland answers. | :05:25. | :05:29. | |
So, David Cameron had to apologise after his former director | :05:30. | :05:32. | |
of communications was convicted of phone hacking. | :05:33. | :05:33. | |
David Cameron's other former friend, Rebekah Brooks, had a better day. | :05:34. | :05:37. | |
At the same trial, she was cleared of all the charges against her. | :05:38. | :05:43. | |
I take full responsibility for employing Andy Coulson. I did some | :05:44. | :05:49. | |
on the basis of undertakings I was given by him about phone hacking and | :05:50. | :05:52. | |
those turned out not to be the case. I always said that if they turned | :05:53. | :05:56. | |
out to be wrong, I would make a full and frank apology, and I do that | :05:57. | :06:01. | |
today. I am extremely sorry that I employed him. It was the wrong | :06:02. | :06:06. | |
decision. I'm clear about that. When I was arrested it was in the middle | :06:07. | :06:11. | |
of a maelstrom of controversy, politics and of comment. Some of | :06:12. | :06:14. | |
that was there, but much of it was not, so I'm grateful to the jury for | :06:15. | :06:24. | |
coming to that decision. Not been a great week for David Cameron. Andy | :06:25. | :06:29. | |
Coulson found guilty, and another person who had worked in Downing | :06:30. | :06:31. | |
Street is also charged on an unrelated issue. And he was 26- on | :06:32. | :06:37. | |
the wrong end in Brussels, and there is a poll this morning which no one | :06:38. | :06:40. | |
seems to be talking about which puts Labour nine points ahead. Before all | :06:41. | :06:45. | |
that there was Dominic Cummings criticising the Downing Street | :06:46. | :06:49. | |
operation is being shambolic. Is Mr Cameron's judgement becoming an | :06:50. | :06:53. | |
issue? Yes, what often happens when one leader is under pressure for | :06:54. | :06:56. | |
long enough, as Ed Miliband has been the six months, we get bored. We | :06:57. | :07:01. | |
then switch the Gatling gun to the other guy. So David Cameron going | :07:02. | :07:04. | |
into the Conference season might be the man under pressure. The whole | :07:05. | :07:07. | |
Andy Coulson saga has raised questions about his judgement and | :07:08. | :07:11. | |
those around him, but any political damage she was going to sustain over | :07:12. | :07:14. | |
Andy Coulson and phone hacking was sustained years ago -- he was | :07:15. | :07:17. | |
going. It was Brother beyond the date the News of the World was | :07:18. | :07:21. | |
closed down three summers ago - it was probably on the date. As the | :07:22. | :07:26. | |
hacking trial cut through to the general public? Or is it just as | :07:27. | :07:32. | |
media and political obsessives? I am sure it has cut through in some way | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
but it didn't necessarily happen in recent days, more likely in recent | :07:37. | :07:40. | |
years. It was some time ago that Andy Coulson resigned in high | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
profile circumstances. It has had a slow burning effect over a few | :07:45. | :07:48. | |
years, and the Prime Minister fears the Big Bang. But there is one theme | :07:49. | :07:54. | |
and words that unites this week with Juncker and Andy Coulson, and that | :07:55. | :07:58. | |
is that the Prime Minister can be lackadaisical. He was lackadaisical | :07:59. | :08:01. | |
in not asking big question is when there was a lot in the public domain | :08:02. | :08:04. | |
about what had happened that the News of the World. And he was | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
lackadaisical with Juncker. He made a calculation that Angela Merkel | :08:09. | :08:11. | |
would support him and it turned out she couldn't. Maybe he needs to | :08:12. | :08:15. | |
change. He was late in understanding what was happening in Germany when | :08:16. | :08:19. | |
both the Christian Democrats, her party, wanted Juncker, and when the | :08:20. | :08:26. | |
actual Murdoch press of Germany said that they wanted him as well. He | :08:27. | :08:31. | |
never saw that. He only looks at one person in Germany, Angela Merkel, | :08:32. | :08:35. | |
and it is a grand coalition, and the SDP felt strongly about it. He is, | :08:36. | :08:40. | |
in a sense, an essay crisis Prime Minister. He is, in a sense, an | :08:41. | :08:42. | |
essay crisis Prime Minister. He s very good in an essay, and the SA | :08:43. | :08:48. | |
gets a double first the essay. Is Ed Miliband right to be angry? He has | :08:49. | :08:53. | |
John Cruddas attacking him, and that is the news leading in the Sunday | :08:54. | :08:58. | |
Times, and has not been a good week the Prime Minister and in which Mr | :08:59. | :09:01. | |
Miliband has a bigger lead in the polls than he has had some time so | :09:02. | :09:04. | |
he must be wondering why they are having a go at him. He made a | :09:05. | :09:08. | |
tactical error in Prime Minister's Questions by asking all the | :09:09. | :09:11. | |
questions about Andy Coulson. The one at the end about what Gus | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
O'Donnell said was rather hopeful in the extreme. Politicians can be out | :09:16. | :09:20. | |
of touch on all sides of the house. The problem is, and there is a great | :09:21. | :09:24. | |
quote by William Hague, is that the Tory party has two modes, panic and | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
complacency. At the moment they are complacent. They think Ed Miliband | :09:29. | :09:31. | |
will lose Labour election but I don't know if they have a positive | :09:32. | :09:34. | |
plan about how to win it. -- lose Labour the election. | :09:35. | :09:37. | |
Now, we knew Prince Charles had trouble keeping his views | :09:38. | :09:40. | |
about the environment and the countryside to himself, | :09:41. | :09:42. | |
but that's not the only thing he's passionate about according to | :09:43. | :09:44. | |
a radio four documentary to be broadcast this lunchtime. | :09:45. | :09:47. | |
Here's former Education Secretary, David Blunkett on how the Prince | :09:48. | :09:51. | |
had once attempted to influence his policy on schools. | :09:52. | :09:55. | |
I would explain that our policy was not to expand grammar schools, and | :09:56. | :10:01. | |
he didn't like that. He was very keen that we should go back to a | :10:02. | :10:07. | |
different era where youngsters had what he would've seen as the | :10:08. | :10:11. | |
opportunity to escape from their background, where as I wanted to | :10:12. | :10:12. | |
change their background. And you can hear that documentary - | :10:13. | :10:14. | |
it's called The Royal Activist Does it matter that Prince Charles | :10:15. | :10:24. | |
is getting involved in this kind of policy, released behind closed doors | :10:25. | :10:27. | |
question mark on the issue of grammar schools is not clear anybody | :10:28. | :10:33. | |
listened to him. I think it is a principal problem. I've spoken to | :10:34. | :10:36. | |
form a government members, and judging by what they say, if | :10:37. | :10:39. | |
anything we underestimate how much contacting makes with ministers And | :10:40. | :10:43. | |
how many representations he makes on the issue that interest him. There | :10:44. | :10:49. | |
has been an attempt to keep it hidden. It's almost a theological | :10:50. | :10:52. | |
question about whether the future monarch should be involved in the | :10:53. | :10:57. | |
public realm. If he wants to influence policy, shouldn't we know | :10:58. | :11:00. | |
what policy he's trying to influence and what position he is taking? | :11:01. | :11:05. | |
Sewer speech is better than private one-on-one lobbying. Possibly - so | :11:06. | :11:11. | |
a speech. Prince Charles's views are interesting. He's not a straight | :11:12. | :11:15. | |
down the light reactionary. He makes a left-wing case for rammer schools. | :11:16. | :11:19. | |
There is an interview with him in the Financial Times in which his | :11:20. | :11:24. | |
argument in favour for architectural development takes into account | :11:25. | :11:27. | |
affordable housing in the wake which no one would have suspected. He has | :11:28. | :11:30. | |
interesting views, but I'm not convinced on the point of principle | :11:31. | :11:34. | |
whether someone is dashing his position should be speaking. Your | :11:35. | :11:39. | |
former employer 's famously described him as the SDP king. You | :11:40. | :11:46. | |
slightly feel sorry for him. He s 66 and still an apprentice. He's in a | :11:47. | :11:53. | |
difficult position. We know what the powers of the monarch are. They are | :11:54. | :11:57. | |
to advise in courage and warned the Prime Minister of the day. These in | :11:58. | :12:00. | |
the difficult position where the problem for him is that there is a | :12:01. | :12:03. | |
line that isn't really defined, but you slightly feel he just gets a bit | :12:04. | :12:07. | |
too close to it and possibly crosses that line with the lobbying that | :12:08. | :12:12. | |
goes on. I think the worrying thing is that at some point he will become | :12:13. | :12:17. | |
King and will he know that he has got to work within that framework? | :12:18. | :12:22. | |
He is somebody that cannot win either. If he doesn't take an | :12:23. | :12:25. | |
interest in public policy, he will be thought to be a bit of a waster, | :12:26. | :12:29. | |
going round opening town halls, and when he does have an interest we | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
think, hey, you are in the monarchy, stay out. There's an interesting | :12:34. | :12:38. | |
parallel with first ladies who are encouraged to find a controversial | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
charitable project. Michelle Obama has bought childhood obesity, and | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
that is the standard thing. Everybody knows that that is a bad | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
thing, but you are not offering solutions that are party political. | :12:52. | :12:55. | |
I feel there must be a middle way with what he should be able to do | :12:56. | :12:58. | |
about finding big causes he can complain about without getting stuck | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
into lobbying ministers. Which can become a party political issue. He | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
has had some influence on architecture, because the buildings | :13:07. | :13:09. | |
we are putting up to date are better than the ones we used to put up | :13:10. | :13:11. | |
The Daily Politics is on BBC 2 at 11:00am | :13:12. | :13:16. | |
We'll be back here at the same time next week. | :13:17. | :13:20. | |
Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics. | :13:21. | :13:25. |