23/10/2016 Sunday Politics North East and Cumbria

There's another candidate in the race to become Ukip's next

leader: Suzanne Evans, the party's former deputy chairman,

This man might have something to say about that.

Paul Nuttal was Nigel Farage's deputy for many years.

So is he now ready to throw his hat in the ring?

The battle for Mosul: the Iraqi army and its allies advane

on the country's second city which has been in the hands of

In the North East and Cumbrha.. from this key clash?

Would thousands of pounds persuade you to back fracking near your home?

And fears for our A Es and maternity units,

as health managers look for big savings.

one of the richest cities in the world. Should all private landlords

be licensed to help tackle the squalor?

And with me - as always - the best and the brightest political

panel in the business: Toby Young, Polly Toynbee and Tom Newton Dunn -

The last leader was in the job a mere 18 days before she decided

The favourite to succeed her then quit the party after a now infamous

Ukip's biggest donor says the party is at "breaking point".

This morning, the former Deputy Chairman, Suzanne Evans,

announced that she would be running for the leadership.

I've thought long and hard about this leadership bid,

and one of the reasons I've perhaps delayed announcing it is

because I wanted to be absolutely sure that I had the support

And I can confirm that I have more than enough signatures

on the nomination form already to be able to go forward.

Let's not forget that 3,000 people signed a petition in support of me

I know head office was besieged with letters in support.

I would not be doing this if I didn't have the backing

of our members, because our members are the most important

Well, Paul Nuttall was Nigel Farage's deputy for many years

and plenty of people saw him as a leader-in-waiting.

Let's ask the man himself - Paul Nuttall joins me now.

Yes. I've made the decision that I'm going to put my name forward to be

the next leader of Ukip. I have huge support across the country, not only

amongst people at the top of the party in Westminster and with the

MEPs, but also the grassroots. I want to be the unity candidate. Ukip

needs to come together. I'm not going to gild the lily. Ukip is

looking over a political cliff at the moment. It will either step four

step back, and I want to tell us to step backwards. You say it faces an

ex-distension or threat, which means it's possible it has no future at

all. Students of political history know that political parties take a

long time to get going. They can disappear pretty quickly. Ukip is

facing an existential crisis. What happened over the summer has put us

on a... We could be on a spiral that we can't get off. But I believe I am

the man to bring the factions together, to create unity within the

party, and to build on the structure and get us ready for the common

challenges. Why didn't you stand last time? Because I have spent the

last four or five years of my life travelling around the country. I

have done more Ukip meetings than anybody else, spending a lot of time

away from home. With Brexit, I felt that my job and Nigel's job was done

and we could hand over to the next generation. That doesn't seem to be

the case, and maybe it's time for someone who is an old hand. I'm very

experienced and I know the party inside out. Maybe it's time to step

in and bring the party together. You told the Liverpool Echo on the night

of July that you didn't wish to take on Nigel Farage, you didn't want

that to happen to your family and friends. What has changed? The party

is facing an existential crisis, and is facing an existential crisis and

I want to make sure that Ukip is on the pitch to keep the ball into the

open net we have in politics. We have a Conservative Party who is

moving toward Brexit, but we have to be there too. Why would you be

better than Suzanne Evans? Suzanne would be an excellent candidate I

thought the 2015 manifesto was the best out of all the political

parties. I would be the best candidate because of my experience.

I am not part of any faction within the party. Is she? I get on well

with everybody, and I believe I could be the man to bring the party

together. Do you get on with Iain Banks, -- Aaron Banks, who is

supporting one of your rivals? Yes, I get on well with him. He is able

to choose whoever he wants to be the next leader of the party. After

November 28, the leadership election, we all say, the past the

past. It becomes Daisy row for the new leader. We forget all that has

before and move on. You won the referendum. Mrs May is adopting some

of your policies, like grammar schools. What is the point of Ukip

these days? Twofold. We don't have Brexit. Mrs May said she would not

invoke Article 50 until the end of March, and we don't know if that

will happen. We need to ensure a strong Ukip to make sure that Brexit

really does mean Brexit. We have a huge opportunity in working class

communities where the Labour Party no longer represents them. I believe

Ukip can become the voice of working people. If you were the leader,

would Ukip be a bigger threat to Labour in the north or the Tories in

the South? You save Labour in the north, and people often to make that

mistake. There's working class communities right across the country

is. There are working-class communities in Bristol just

as in Newcastle. We are second in a number of northern seats, and

southern seats as well, and I believe the party can move into

these communities. It can only do so if Ukip is on the pitch, and I

intend to make sure that's the case. I don't think we have portrayed a

good image over the summer. Is that called British understatement? A

bit. It is dysfunctional. We have to move on beyond Nigel Farage. We have

to build a strong national Executive Committee. We need to ensure our

branches are ready for the fight and concentrate on local elections. I've

got the experience. I'm now throwing my hat into the ring, and I'm the

only person who can keep Ukip in the game. What role would you give Nigel

Farage, if any? I will be the candidate of compromise. I would see

what Nigel wanted to do. Would you keep in the leader of the freedom

and democracy group in the European Parliament? There would have to be

compromise on both sides, and we would need to talk about it. I don't

know what Nigel wants to do. Do you think his support, his association

with Donald Trump, helps Ukip win female votes in this country?

Personally, I would not have gone out and campaigned or said anything

about Donald Trump, but I don't think Ukip has come out and backed

Donald Trump 100%. Personally, I wouldn't have even spoken about the

American election, because I think the two candidates are quite

appalling. Some up for us. If you win, what would be the hallmark of

your Ukip leadership? The first couple of months would be ensuring

that Ukip unifies. Saying no to factions, bringing people together.

Suzanne Evans, Nigel Farage, all of the MEPs, and ensuring that Ukip can

move forward. If we don't unify, Ukip will not be around for much

longer. Thanks for being with us this morning.

We won't have to wait too long to find out who Ukip's

new leader will be - the winner will be announced

Who would be the best leader for Ukip? I think the difference between

the field a few weeks ago and today is that this field is a lot

stronger. Whether it's Paul or Suzanne, I think... It is hard to

say, with Aaron Banks and apparently Nigel Farage hacking another

candidate, Raheem, but I want Ukip to be a strong force in British

politics. I think the fact there is a stronger field now is good news

for Ukip. Is it a Labour's worst nightmare in the north of England?

It is. I think the personality difference and presentational

difference is interesting. Suzanne Evans is going for the Conservative

county vote. There's a lot to be taken there by Ukip. He would

probably be more appealing to the Labour vote. It is interesting. At

the moment, pollsters say that the Ukip vote splits pretty easily

between Labour and Tory. But things always collapse. When they have made

inroads into Tower Hamlets and Barking, they collapse, because they

fight amongst each other so much. But not always with fists! Does Ukip

have a future? And who would best secure that future? It does for at

least two years, until we Brexit. We have to believe that that will

happen. That was an impressive pitch there from Paul, certainly as the

unity candidate, after the car crash we have seen on TV screens this

morning. But it doesn't go beyond May 20 19. What then? There is no

point being called the United Kingdom Independence party any

longer. What will happen after May 2019? If you want to hoover up votes

of the back of Brexit, you need to start looking further ahead than two

years. The person who wins that leadership contest is the person who

will sum that up the best. We shall see.

In June 2014, the group which calls itself the Islamic State in Iraq

and the Levant captured Iraq's second city, Mosul.

Later that month the group announced it was establishing a 'caliphate',

or an Islamic state, on the territories it

This week 30,000 Iraqi troops, aided by Iranian-backed Shia fighters,

Kurdish Peshmerga and Western air support, began the assault

Then they spot a truck bomb from so-called Islamic State.

They destroy it before it destroys them.

These are the first steps in the battle for Mosul,

the Northern Iraqi city IS has made its stronghold since 2014.

Controlling the city of around 2 million people means

that they established governance, they establish a territorial base.

This is what has obsessed everyone, because with a territorial base

you are capable of doing more than if you are simply an insurgency

movement in the fabric of another society.

It's being billed as the biggest military operation in Iraq

since the war in 2003, the biggest moment in the international effort

Here is how the various forces are approaching the city.

Heading to Mosul from the south, the elite troops of the Iraqi army.

Known as the Golden division, trained and accompanied

From the North, a force made up of Kurds, known as the Peshmerga,

Also from the South, a militia made up of Shia fighters

who have been accused of human rights abuses.

British planes have bombed outlying villages, reportedly guided

in by British personnel on the ground.

To the North West, a corridor has been left for some

of the 3000 plus IS fighters, in theory an escape route

which could limit the bloodshed when fighting starts in the city.

We've had 4-5 days of battle and it's taking place

in the outlying villages and there have been some

successes and some failures, but the momentum is building.

And the real question will be when the attackers get

towards the city itself, how strong are the defences?

It will crack but it might crack within 48 hours or 2-3 weeks.

IS has fought back, on Friday they attack sites

in the city of Kirkuk, including a power station.

The United Nations believes hundreds of thousands of families

have been rounded up as potential human shields.

The battle could be bloody, but what about when it's over?

The Shia militias, the Iraqi army, the Peshmerga guerrillas,

some of the Turkish elements, they all want a share of the action.

They are in Mosul, not for altruistic reasons.

They are there because they want to be part of whatever happens next.

The biggest issue is how the Sunni majority in Mosul reacts to the Shia

militias which have helped to liberate them.

ARCHIVE FOOTAGE: When Sir Francis Humphrey went to Mosul

If it all seems like something from the archive, when the Middle

East went up in flames and was then carved up,

it is because that is what is happening in Iraq right now.

National identity has been cut across by other identities such

And that means that putting together a so-called nation state again

Almost certainly there will be a new form of Kurdish state,

almost certainly in northern Iraq at the end of this crisis,

and what is happening in Mosul is a microcosm of what is happening

elsewhere across the Levant which is that it is melting down.

Big questions, questions that come after the battle.

The coalition forces are advancing but this is just the beginning.

I'm joined now by the International Development Minister Rory Stewart.

In a former life he was the coalition Deputy-Governor of two

provinces in Southern Iraq following the Iraq intervention of 2003.

Is there any doubt that at some stage Mosul will fall to the forces

of Iraq and its allies? The first thing is that war is very uncertain

and there are cliches about it being the graveyard of predictions and we

don't want to make confident predictions but the basic structure

is that there are 30,000 Iraqi forces outside and only a few

thousand Daesh fighters inside and I would say it is overwhelmingly

likely that the batter will one STUDIO: -- the battle the won by the

Iraqi forces. June 2014 was a great success, they

took a city of over in people and they created what they tried to

create a million state of 7 million people, stretching across the Iraqi

Syrian border, but since then they have lost territory quite rapidly.

Now they are losing the outskirts of Mosul, and that is a fundamental

blow. Islamic State is all about territory and holding state, that is

what makes it different from Al-Qaeda. If they lose Mosul that

will be a cynic -- significant blow to their credibility. Hillary

Clinton said on Wednesday's presidential debate that when Iraqi

forces with their allies including the United Kingdom gain control of

Mosul they should continue to press into Syria to take back Raqqa which

is the de facto capital of the caliphate, what is left of it, do we

want Iraqi forces to pursue IS into Syria? Very important question.

Delayed in Raqqa needs to come from people on the Syrian side of the

border and that is an important principle -- the lead. In the end of

that enemy, Islamic State, is a common enemy for odd members of the

coalition including the Iraqi government. -- all members. There is

likely to be a humanitarian crisis especially if it ends up with street

to street fighting and IS are difficult to dislodge what are we

doing about that? We are doing very detailed scenario planning. It is

very uncertain what the scenario will be but much investment has gone

into creating a network of camps, refugees STUDIO: Refugee camps

around cash refugee camps, and that is where money, British money, ?40

million has gone recently into supporting that, especially in terms

of medical support to people. The United nation's emergency response

budget is ?196 million but only one third funded which sounds like we

are putting up a big chunk of what is already being funded. Why is

that? The international committee can't say they haven't seen this

assault coming, and the humanitarian fallout they may see from it. You

are absolutely right. We have seen it coming and we have been planning

since debris and we have put in about ?167 million into this --

planning since February. There has been a change in the nature of the

appeal, and if there is a lag in the accounting of it, but the money we

need at this stage is in place and we do have the support structure in

place for those refugees. You are right the United Nations is

continuing with its appeal and is asking for more money at the moment.

The converse magazine wrote this week that preparations for a big

exodus of people leaving the city have been made -- Economist

magazine. But confidence is not high in the preparations, is that a

unfair conclusion? If you can imagine the different scenarios, it

could be a few thousand and it could be a few hundred thousand coming out

of the city through a front line where the war is going on, that is

very difficult. You have to screen those people and disarm them, and

keep families together, and transport them and you have to bring

them into the refugee camps. The people working on this have been

working on this for long time, we have mapped the different routes we

have good camp infrastructure in place and we have people who have

worked in south to dam and other areas who are putting their

structures in place -- South Sudan. It is never easy but I think we have

done everything we can in the preparation for this. What is the

British role in what will probably be an even bigger issue, assuming

that Mosul is liberated and retaken, the humanitarian crisis is dealt

with, what role will we play in the rebuilding of Mosul? That will be

crucial to the future of Iraq, the second-biggest city and it will need

to be rebuilt. It will need to be rebuilt as a community as well as

bricks and mortar. And eight Sunni community that is not harassed by

the Shia. -- and eight. You are right. One of the core drivers is

that the Sunni community felt excluded and they did not feel they

have the trust from the Baghdad government. A lasting solution is

stopping some of Islamic State coming back, that involves making

sure the Sunni community have a stake in their future. That is

making sure that the governing structures are in place. The UK s

response is twofold, we have got to get the humanitarian aid right, that

is the short term, people who might be malnourished, coming out of the

front line. The second thing is working with the Iraqi government to

make sure that as we rebuild Mosul we do so in a way that that

population feels a connection to the Iraqi state. Islamic State is losing

territory everywhere in the Levant, it is almost finished in Iraq, we

think. It is down to one district in Libya, as well, just one small part

of the town. I suppose the risk is, if life is becoming more difficult

across these areas, it can start to look more in Europe and the United

Kingdom as a place to continue its terrorist attacks? That is a real

danger. You are right. This is a group which has proved over the last

five years very unpredictable and it changes for it quickly full stop

often it does unexpected things. In often it does unexpected things In

2009 its predecessor had been largely wiped out in Iraq and when

it was under pressure in Syria it went back into Iraq, and in the past

it didn't hold territory but now it holds territory, so you are right.

There is a serious risk that as it gets squeezed in the middle East it

will try to pop up somewhere else and Mac could include Europe and the

United States -- that could. They say that is something they have

focused on full stop we also have a big focus on counterterrorism

security and making sure that we keep the United Kingdom and Europe

say. One final question. -- say -- safe. Maybe events in Mosul could

add to the migration crisis in Europe, is that a possibility?

Again, you are right, we have seen in Syria it can push migration, the

biggest push the migration was the conflict in Syria, and that's the

reason why we have but so much energy into getting those refugee

camps in place and getting the humanitarian response in place --

humanitarian response in place - put so much energy. People will want

to remain in their homes, this is their country, but we have got to

make it possible for them and that means in the short term looking

after their shelter and in the medium to long-term making sure they

have livelihoods, jobs and an economic development which is why

our support in Iraq is in the UK National interests because it deals

with these issues of migration and terrorists. Thanks for joining us.

I'm joined now by the Shadow Defence Secretary.

Does Labour support British participation in this offensive? We

participation in this offensive We fully support the participation in

this offensive, extremely important move forward and we voted for this

back in 2014. We are asking the government question is, of course, I

was asking the Secretary of State this week about this very offensive

but we are fully behind our RAF pilots out there and be trading that

has been going on to help the forces on the ground. -- the training full

stop that is very clear. I wonder if you'll lead it shares that clarity

and that position. -- is your leader. This is what Jeremy Corbyn

has said. What's been done in Iraq

is done by the Iraqi government, and currently

supported by the British government. I did not support it

when it came up. Well, I'm not sure how successful

it's been, because most of the action now appears to be

moving in to Syria, so I think we He doesn't sound very supportive.

The issue about Mosul, it has been very carefully prepared as Rory

Stewart said and I hope we have learned the lessons from previous

offensives where we haven't learnt sufficiently, and that is going to

be crucial in this context. How the aftermath is going to be dealt with.

Of course will stop that clip was from November last year, and things

have changed. Two weeks ago he told the BBC" I'm not sure it is

working", in reference to air strikes in Iraq, but it is working.

We have got to see what happens in Mosul, it is a very high-risk

operation, but we also have to face the fact that the people there are

living under tyranny at the moment. We have to ask very cirrus question

shall stop he says he's not sure it is working, when Mosul is the last

major target be cleared of Islamic State in Iraq. The combination of

Allied air power has worked, why is he not sure it is working? Because

we have seen difficulties in the past. But this was two weeks ago. It

is essential that the work is done, both planning for the refugees as

Rory Stewart referred to, but also in terms of reconstruction of the

city and its community as you mentioned. These are vital. This was

about the ability to make progress with Allied air power, special

forces in Iraq, on the ground, do you accept so far that has a

strategy that seems to be working to read Iraq of Islamic -- to read Iraq

of Islamic State the question of the car began placement. Ulloa -- we

can't be complacent. The problems they are creating where ever they

are urged that we must continue to pursue them. This is the first time

we have spoken to since you have become the Shadow Defence Secretary.

I hope we will have a longer interview. Will Labour's next

manifesto include a commitment to the renewal of Trident? It will We

made that commitment in 2007, that is a firm commitment and we will

honour that to our coalition allies and our industrial partners and that

is the vote which was taken democratically and repeatedly has

been reaffirmed by Labour conference and we are a democratic party vote

up you have squared that with Jeremy Corbyn? He's in favour of democracy

and he understands the situation, but we also want to push for the UK

to play a much bigger role on the international stage on multilateral

disarmament talks. You were very clear there, I thank you for that.

Support for Trident will be in the next Labour manifesto. What has

happened to Labour's review of Trident policy? That review has been

taking place over the year, we had a very clear reaffirmation in the

conference boat this year, we are reaffirming our commitment to

Trident -- vote. The review can t Trident -- vote. The review can't

change that? There is a process of review and a fair number of issues

related to defence, all parties do this. Of course. The review can t

this. Of course. The review can't change the commitment to Trident? We

are not changing the commitment to Trident. Russia is now the main

strategic threat to this country? It is a major strategic threat and we

have got to work with our Nato allies very closely and make sure

that we respond and that we do not let things pass. For example, we

should be calling out Russia for the way it has been a bombing

humanitarian aid and we should be taking them to international court

over this, but we should also be strengthening sanctions, somewhat

imposed over Ukraine. We try to do that, but the Italians wouldn't let

us. The Italians did not want to participate in the European

initiative but that doesn't stop individual countries for the Britain

should step up? Yes, we should look at what is practical to impose.

Thanks for joining us. Mosul is not the only major battle

being waged in the Middle East. The city of Aleppo in northern Syria

has seen some of the heaviest bombardment since Syria's

five-year-long civil war began. This week Russian warships,

in a deliberate show of power, sailed west through the English

channel en route to Syria. Nato says it's Russia's "largest

surface deployment" since the end of the Cold War in what is thought

to be preparation for a final assault

on the besieged city of Aleppo. In the city itself fighting

resumed overnight - following a 3-day ceasefire -

with more air strikes and heavy clashes in the city's

rebel-held eastern districts. Almost 500 people have been

killed and 2,000 injured since Syrian government forces,

backed by Russian air strikes, This week Theresa May condemned

Vladimir Putin's involvement in Syria, accusing Moscow

of being behind "sickening atrocities" in support

of President Assad's regime. But European leaders are divided

on how to respond and, with the United States preoccupied

with domestic politics, President Putin senses this

is his moment to bring the Syrian I'm joined now by the BBC's former

Diplomatic and Moscow Correspondent, Bridget Kendall, who is now Master

of Peterhouse College in Cambridge. Welcome. Good to see you in the BBC

studio again. Let me put up this satellite image of Aleppo here, to

get an idea of the scale. It was the biggest city in Syria. It was the

commercial capital and a huge cultural hub as well. Almost the New

York of Syria, to give you an idea of its significance to the country.

Let me show you now how it's been divided. The rebels are now in

control of the eastern part, about eight miles long and three miles

wide there, they're in purple. They are under great attacks still. Is it

inevitable that that purple part falls to the regime? That is what

President as Saad, the Russians and the Iranians hope. The fierce

bombardments we have seen is part of that. I'm reminded very much in the

Russian tactics of what happened in grudgingly in Chechnya in 2000, when

the Russians said, a warning for all civilians to lead, and then they

went ahead and they basically raised it to the ground. They are talking

about Al Nusrah as being one of the rebel groups. They got rid of all of

the terrorists. They talk about it being an Al-Qaeda offshoot. The

purpose of going in is to get rid of them. You get the civilians out and

then you take it. But this isn't like Chechnya. It is much more

complex. We have seen an attempt to take Aleppo before, and then there

was a rebel counter offensive. It's not so certain. And there are so

many different parties involved. We have seen the alarm in the west of

the extent of the civilian casualties. There have been

rumblings in the west of, shouldn't the United States do something?

Shouldn't they stop the Syrian air force? This Russian aircraft carrier

steaming its way towards the Eastern Mediterranean is a symbolic gesture,

both to its own people, but also to the West, to say, don't get involved

in Aleppo if we go ahead. Don't try and stop us because we could up the

ante. They have not been great visual pictures, because the

aircraft carrier looks a bit clapped out, belching out smoke! If the

rebel controlled area does fall it would be seen as a great victory for

President as Saad and his Russian allies. What is the aim of Russia

here? What would they then do, if Aleppo Falls? It is part of a plan

that President Putin set out in his UN speech in 2014, before Russia

went into Syria. The aim is to put President Assad back in charge.

President Putin said this weekend that either is Assad in Damascus, or

its Al Nusrah. There is nothing in between. They want to eliminate the

argument for a moderate opposition. They want to make it plain that the

only way to get a stable Syria is to have Assad back in charge. Even sue

argue for a rump steak lit, leaving aside what is happening with IAS.

They have already said they want to have an enlarged military presence

at their bases. And they have a big naval base. It is. It is a chance to

push for this when he sees the West is being distracted and divided.

Europe and America, by elections and so on. Just before the US elections.

The Americans are worried about that, Europeans are being distracted

by Brexit. He can push to his maximum advantage now, before there

is a new US president. If they do take that part of Aleppo, and that

part of northern Syria, does Mr Putin want us to recognise, to

admit, that that is now his sphere of influence? I think the rhetoric

from the Russians is that they want the West to recognise that they are

an equal powerful partner. It's not just the US that runs the writ in

the Middle East. Russia is as important as it is. It is engaging

with Saudi Arabia and has mended fences with Turkey. Syria is the

place from which it can launch its message that it is a big player in

the Middle East. Russia wants the West to understand that this isn't a

country that was dismembered after the end of the Soviet Union and is

now a week. It is back, and it is strong. That is an important

message. Looking at the economy. strong. That is an important

message. Looking at the economy It message. Looking at the economy. It

is in recession. GDP has been falling, partly because of the price

of oil. It is highly dependent on hydrocarbons, and is expected to

fall again. Its people are falling again. People don't realise how

small the Russian economy is. Its GDP is about the size of Italy's. It

is smaller than the UK economy. Bigger than it was 15 or 20 years

ago. But so is Britain's does it help to take people's mind of this?

A huge shock to the Russian economy was a drop in the price of oil and a

price of gas. A drop in the price of the ruble as well. This is hurting

the people of Russia. On the one hand, it is the war in Syria, which

is very important for Russia to sort out that part of the world and

dispensed terrorists who might be danger to -- is dangerous to Russia.

But he had also has presidential election is going up. They are

supposed to be 2018, but some feel he will bring them forward to 2 17,

he will bring them forward to 2017, because the economy is not doing so

well. But you need a good story for the Russian people. Thank you very

much. We say goodbye to viewers

in Scotland who leave us now Hello and welcome to your

local part of the show. More spending than ever before

on the NHS, yet still acciddnt and emergency departments

and maternity units We report on health managers' plans

to find more than ?1 billion in savings.

Labour Shadow Cabinet member and MP for Wansbeck, Ian Lavery,

is here to talk about that. Alongside him, the Conservative MP

for Thirsk and Malton, will a cash handout be enough

to persuade householders to allow fracking for shale gas

near their homes? Inflation up to 1% this week

and likely to head higher with the rising price of petrol

and food imports. Unemployment in the region

has fallen, though - down 9,000 on the last quarter

in the North East. There were falls too in the numbers

claming Job Seekers' Allowance Ian Lavery, is there really

a cause for concern here? Inflation is still historic`lly low

and 1%, we would be celebrating another times

if inflation was that low. Jobs figures show that our

economy is in good shape? It doesn't show that the economy

is in good shape. The reality, in context

with regards to employment, we are still as a region

the highest region for We are still the region

where there is least employment, we are a blackspot for zero hours

contracts, for part-time employment. We have got the lowest wages

in the whole of the UK. Not really something

we should be celebrating. But it's what type of employment

we have here in the North E`st. And we are in a low-wage economy

in a -- and spiralling down. And it will cause huge problems

if there is a continued increase in inflation, an increase in prices

for people who already... We have a record number of people

in work claiming benefits Using food banks, we cannot do too

much in terms of celebrating Kevin Hollinrake, that's

the point, isn't it? With inflationary pressures growing,

it will be the poorest, a lot of people in our

region, who will suffer. Nationally, we are one

of the fastest-growing economies Our economy was in recession

in 2010, there has been a miracle There have been 2 million jobs

created in the private Generally, record employment,

record low unemployment. Do you expect that to continue

with all the pressure is a head? Certainly, there are question marks

over what our future relationship We need to get that right,

to secure our job prospects, But at the moment, the economy

is growing, it is growing a decent levels and we need to make

sure that is the case. Clearly, the lowering

of sterling in terms of world I'm sure those issues will be

discussed many times over the next A protest to protect the local

NHS began this weekend with marchers making their way

from North Yorkshire They say hospital services

in their area, including accident and emergency departments

and maternity units, But as the NHS across the region

looks to save money, The government says efficiencies

are vital but denies We're marching from the hospital

in Northallerton to Darlington Jo and her friends have become

so concerned about what might happen to the services where they live

they are marching from hospital All services in our NHS footprint

area, which is the area that we are walking,

are under threat. The NHS Trust bosses and CCGs have

denied the existence of these documents but we have seen them,

we know that we could end up I found out about this

through googling and The NHS exec hasn't been sharing

this with us. They haven't been open

and transparent, as far What Jo and other campaigners

are worried about are what hs known about sustainability

and transformation plans. These have been drawn up

for each health region, or footprint, across

the country and have now bedn In the North East and Cumbrha,

draft plans and other documents this programme has seen says that this

NHS here will be more than ?1 billion over budget by 021

if it doesn't make efficiency savings and change the way

health care is delivered. On Teesside, that might mean

the downgrading of accident and emergency units at either

or both the North Tees Hosphtal in Stockton, or here

at the Darlington Memorial Hospital. And across the wider Teesside area,

the delivery of acute medicine and surgery,

orthopaedics, gynaecology, maternity, neonatal,

intensive care and paediatrhc This is going to have

massive impact in my area. The North East is one of thd areas

in the country that has the lowest life expectancy,

the poorest health. These aren't savings, or efficiency,

these are cuts to the NHS btdget at a time when, because of an ageing

population and because of complex health needs, we need to have more

spent on the NHS in the North East. This is going to have

a devastating blow. We asked those behind the NHS

sustainability and transforlation plans for Durham and Teesside

for an interview, but they declined. We were also given only very limited

information and details of their plans for health

care in the area. But the Health Secretary told

a select committee this week that a more efficient health service does

not mean a worse one. What I don't accept is that in order

to make those efficiency savings, you have to make changes that will

impact negatively on patient care. And I think that there are of course

those easy ways to make savings, which is to reduce the availability

of care for patients and there is the harder way,

but the right way, which is to ways that improve care and improve

efficiency at the same time. With winter approaching,

the NHS is under pressure. And in the longer term,

what the NHS does and what hs spent on it is once more becoming a battle

ground between the Well, the Prime Minister was this

week asked to intervene to save a maternity unit

in Cumbria from closure. Copeland's MP Jamie Reed urged

Theresa May to take up the hssue. Removal of 24-hour consultant-led

maternity services from the West Cumbria Hospital

in Whitehaven will cost livds. And this is a decision

which ultimately, the government Will the Prime Minister please

commit today to visit my constituency to see what the effect

of this decision will be upon West Cumbrian families,

women and children. I say to the honourable gentleman,

I recognise that this is not the first time he has

raised his concerns in relation Can I say to him that the point of

the way in which we are approaching this is that decisions are taken

and generated from the local level. It is at the local area

that they will be looking at the services that

are necessary for people. Kevin Hollinrake, called

deficiencies, savings, ?1 billion that needs to be found

in an overstretched health service. As Labour says, that sounds

like a crisis. I want to take issue with one

of the comments by Ian Wright. There is record amounts of spending

going into the health service. More than any other political

party has committed to. Also, the money spent

in the North East is far greater per person than is spent

in North Yorkshire. So what we do need to make sure

is that taxpayers' money So it is quite right,

within the NHS, the way it's managed, that services come

together, whether that be hdalth trusts, local authorities

or the Clinical Commissioning Groups which commission the care,

to make sure they are using that But ?1 billion is an awful

lot of money. And the suspicion is,

whatever Jeremy Hunt says, You will see accident

and emergency services going. In some of those documents that

were leaks, there were suggestions -- in some of those documents that

were leaked, The budget is not being cut

but the NHS needs to work This is taxpayers' money,

this is patient care. It is quite right that we look

to make efficiencies and work The financial figures are there

more money is going in. The problem is that Labour's answer

appears to be don't close anything, I think it's important that we keep

what we got in the NHS. the reality is the savings, or cuts,

in real terms to the NHS, what it will result in in otr area

is closure is of A E, closures of maternity units and it

might even mean closures The Northumberland, Tyne

and Wear Trust by 2021 is looking If they have got that deficht,

how on earth can they cut that without cutting services

and closing hospitals? Because as Kevin Hollinrake says,

the government is putting more money The government are not putting more

money in the NHS in real terms. . When we look at the situation,

these five-year plans... These footprints, these secret

meetings which are taking place these meetings where you cannot get

sight of any minutes, where there isn't any

accountability, there isn't any transparency within these

footprints committees, And the general public

are loose any confidence... -- the general public are losing

confidence. There is real terms growth in NHS

spending from central government and the vicious need to Google that,

Google King 's fund, an independent The only place that has had real

terms cuts is Wales, which hs run Let me raise one issue

which Labour did raise. It's very difficult for members

of the public to try and ways through, and even the journ`list,

to find out what is going on with these proposals

and these trust. And that can lead to scare stories

but also reality is being hhdden. These proposals were published

in December, the idea for those were published

in December 2015 by the NHS. But the trust are not telling us

what they are proposing? Jeremy Hunt, when he came up

to the hospital in Cramlington on a private visit, wouldn't talk

to journalists and ended up interviewing himself

on social media. This is going into consultation

I've had into this consultation. -- I have had input into thhs

consultation. and the commissioning groups should

listen, as should central government, to make sure th`t we get

this right and we don't make cuts where that will cost lives,

but is absolutely right that we have an efficient hdalth

service and that is What is the answer, Ian Lavdry?

It can't just be about more money. The sustainability and

transformation five-year pl`ns, there are 44 footprints

across the country. They are not consulting

with anybody, they are not providing any evidence.

There is no transparency. Is that the way to operate such

a great institution? The Labour Party is quite fhrm

and the polls show that the general public believe that the NHS is much

safer in the hands When not in the business of looking

to the cut the budget for the NHS... Kevin Hollinrake, if Theresa May

sticks to her decision that she doesn't want to put any

more money into the NHS, any extra, there will be

a winter crisis, won't that? Well, of course we have got to make

sure that the efficiencies, We committed to a budget colmitment

to the NHS leading through the 2020 that was exactly

what Simon Stephens asked for, who was the Chief

Executive of the NHS. She has said that we have to work

within that budget. Beyond that, we have to look again

at health services and at adult social care to make sure th`t we

have a properly funded system. Now, we know there are plenty

of protests when people find an open cast coal mine or a wind farm

is planned near their homes. But to make it more palatable,

it's long been the case that areas affected by such planning decisions

receive compensation to bendfit Well, the Government is taking that

idea a stage further when it comes to the controversial issue

of drilling for shale gas - High in the Durham Dales,

these turbines have been Generating power and clocking up

cash for nearby Esh Winning. The village community centrd's

kitchen is the latest to be kitted out with cash from a fund sdt up

by the wind farm developer. In the last year alone,

?200,000 from such communitx benefit funds has been doled

out in County Durham. I think it's really important that

local communities who have in their environment,

in this case, renewable energy sources, contributing

to the national need for renewable energy, they receive

some benefits for that. And because these benefit ftnds

are awarded from a community panel, it is the community panel

that make the decision, it's a great way for

the local community to take But can cash really

over, controversy? Protesters hoping to hold plans

to extract shale gas They failed and now

fracking, as some call it, Behind those green gates

are the sites that have Where the shale gas

will be extracted. But the government says communities

around here could share in this Bit like the wind farms,

proceeds from shale gas extraction But in nearby Kirby Misperton,

opposition seems undimmed. There may be more

temptation on the way. To corrupt a famous catchphrase

the government doesn't just want to give communities this

cheque, it is also considerhng Consulting on whether individual

householders get up to ?20,000 The fund will get 10% of the tax

revenues from shale gas. ?20,000 to accept fracking near your

home, Deal or no Deal? Definitely no Deal.

You can keep it. I think it's a cynical ploy, it s

a bribe to try to get people onside. Firstly, you could get to ?20,0 0,

but you have to price will fall. -- but you will house price will

fall. -- but your house price. Secondly, it's very poor

compensation for the risks that people are going

to face from these wells. Their health and their well,being,

implications of fracking. It's an unknown industry

in this country, still. This holiday complex

is run by Lorraine. She sees no problem

in the communities or individuals benefiting from an industry

she welcomes. If they are near a shale gas

well and they've got to have the inconvenience

of trucks going past for a temporary amount of time,

then why shouldn't And imagine the trade that `ll this

activity would bring for all the different businesses

in this area. The government consultation on how

the Shale Welfare Fund But so far, there are plentx

of people in Ryedale who are not yet persuaded their community

will be better off. Kevin Hollinrake, the protesters

are right, this is bribery? The decision to push ahead

with shale gas exploration was taken in Parliament by 2015,

passed by a huge majority, 250 beds, because it is

a national opportunity. 22 million homes in the UK tse gas

to heat their homes. So if we've got it

and we can produce it, Because if you import it,

then you export jobs. Now, of course when it comes local

at that point, some people are bound to have concerns and tempor`rily

have some inconvenience in terms of noise pollution, light pollution,

traffic movements... So individual payments are fine

from your point of view? I think it's right that local people

who suffer the inconvenient should But it's for inconvenience,

not for pollution I think those are scare stories that

are absolutely without foundation. The particular development

in your constituency in Kirby Misperton,

is subject to a High Court How confident are you that it

will still go ahead. But one thing viewers should

look at, in your clip, you were studied in front

of what is actually a gas wdll pad. And all you can see

is a collection of trees. That will not industrialise

the countryside in Ryedale. If it did, or there was a likelihood

that it would, I was up -- Ian Lavery, the principle

is the same, why shouldn't I'm not sure that anybody living

next to an opencast mine has Individuals haven't

as yet, but you agree The government came up inithally

with the compensation in terms of the shale wealth fund

for the communities to prob`bly use for infrastructure programmds,

skills and development. They have changed their view now

because that was not widely received in the communities and now

they are trying to bribe individuals, but neighbour

against neighbour, friend Well, Labour was lukewarm

on fracking, now it And yet, as Kevin Hollinrake says,

a lot of imported gas, why not Well I was on the energy select

committee for five years I gave fracking a chance,

by the way, I thought it was important...

Your party doesn't. What is really important is

that we listen to what commtnities And it's quite obvious that

communities want no part What happened to localism

in the Conservative Party? He has made that same point

for housing development, We as MPs get complaints

about all these things. I understand that communitids

are concerned and I have worked very hard over the last 18 months to meet

those concerns, to reduce the numbers of well pads,

to make sure we have the proper regulations in place

and the supervision. Because that is what they

are concerned about. But there are too many scard

stories going around. Now, contrasting fortunes for

libraries in the region this week. And a visit to Westminster

for council leaders on Teesside Just a couple of the stories making

the news in our regular Council leaders in the Tees Valley

have met Local Government Secretary Sajid Javid to the final totches

to the devolution deal. The Minister says

Teesside will benefit. He criticised those other

counties in the North East And that's really bad for local

people in terms of jobs and growth Berwick MP Anne Marie Trevelyan has

told a Westminster debate that changes to the way homes

are provided for military personnel could drive families away from bases

into privately rented homes, increasing isolation

and damaging morale. Many families have been sayhng to me

this would be the last straw, A public hearing is taking place

in Carlisle about planned boundary changes which could see West Cumbria

lose a parliamentary seat. And finally, The Word,

a ?1.6 million library and cultural It's part of South Tyneside

Council's plan to regenerate In Sunderland, councillors blamed

government cuts for the closure of their city centre

library and its relocation Ian Lavery, to bring up the

libraries. To Labour councils, different outcomes. South Tyneside

has a nice new one and Sunddrland has a nice new one and Sunddrland

bemoaning removing theirs. Doesn't it show that this is local

decision-making, not blaming government cuts? We have to look at

government cuts. When you look at the grand system which in Tory hails

councils, they have had a cut of councils, they have had a cut of

something like ?60 per household. In the Labour seat,, it is nearly

300... Still a lot of money coming here rather than the south. I feel

really sorry for these councils. Councillors do not go into the

business of running local authorities to keep cutting and

cutting. Libraries are very important. I think they havd got

cutting. Libraries are very important. I think they have got a

important. I think they havd got a duty to look at where they needed

pay... They are so important, I need to ask the other guest! This is

happening in your area. Libraries handed the volunteers. My area as

well as suffering from cuts. You may be point that my local area gets a

lot less from central government grant than urban areas. We get a

worse deal but we are still getting cuts. The library services hn terms

cuts. The library services in terms of their budgets have been cut. We

haven't seen any closures ydt. haven't seen any closures yet.

Community groups are setting in which is good. But we are still in

this country is spending ?70 billion a year more than...

And that's about it from us for this week.

So, Brexit, airports, Calais and the chances

With what Rory Stewart was saying there, it is clear that Islamic

State is losing territory in Iraq now, and could come under pressure

in Syria as well. It used to control a whole swathe of the coast of

Libya, and is now down to a small area of Sirte in Libya. But

curiously, it could make them more dangerous here if they are being

driven out of the Maghreb and the Levant, they could be more dangerous

here. Discuss. That was a very interesting admission from a

government minister, of all people, and a well-informed one. Chasing

Isis around the Middle East is about... Like chasing Al-Qaeda

around Afghanistan and Pakistan. You smash them somewhere, and they pop

up somewhere else. He is right to warn that these guys will go

somewhere. And it may well be, in Sirte, for example, across the magic

oration -- across the Mediterranean into Italy. A lot of the foreign

fighters in Mosul have already gone, we heard, which raises the question,

to where? I think it is quite right for government ministers to warn

that it might have repercussions here. We have been involved in this,

with full public consent, as far as we can tell. If it doesn't happen,

if there are horrors and outrages here and in the rest of Europe,

that's fine. If it does happen, at least the government is prepared. We

knew surprised about how categorical Nia Griffith was? She was

categorical about support for the Allied action in Iraq, and

categorical about Russia. So much so that perhaps written should take

tougher sanctions on its own, even if it can't get the Europeans to

fall in line. I found that interesting. I was surprised by

that. Tom may be right that Rory said more than perhaps he was

intending, but I thought that some of what she said sounded politically

imprudent in the current context of the Labour Party. I'm not sure she

cleared those lines with the Labour office. I'm not sure she and Jeremy

are in the same place about it. I'm not sure there is that much

leadership. People at the moment get out there and say what they think

it's right for the party. She sounded dead right to me. Whether it

is ill-advised or not, people should answer... I want to move on, because

Brexit never goes away. This week we saw Hilary Benn, former Shadow

Foreign Secretary. He is going to be the chair of the select committee in

the Commons which will monitor the Department for Brexit. All sorts of

people will be coming to give testimony and so one. Let's hear

what he told Andrew Marr. I think it will be very important

for the government to indicate that if it is not possible within the two

years provided for by Article 5 to negotiate both our withdrawal

agreement and a new trading relationship, market access,

including for services, 80% of our economy, million jobs,

in financial services, that it should tell the House

of Commons that it will seek a transitional arrangement

with the European Union. If the deal is not done at the end

of the two-year Article 50 process, would the government go for an

interim agreement, or would it fall back on WTO, World Trade

Organisation, Rawls? My understanding is the article 15

negotiation doesn't specifically include what Britain's future

trading relationship with the EU would be. It is perfectly possible

that Article 50 could be triggered, and after two years we don't have a

trade deal, but the trade deal negotiations are ongoing when we are

outside the EU. But the trade deal negotiations are the most important

thing. If Article 50 doesn't cover it, what is it about? Absolutely

essential. The trade deal with Canada has taken nine years, and now

it looks like it is fading, because of the Walloons. Just one small part

of the country. If you cannot do a free-trade deal with Canada, a

progressive, social Democratic Canada, who can the EU do a trade

deal with? You would think it would be easy with us, because we have all

of the level playing field agreements in place. You would hope

it would be easier, but it may not be, because in the end, it will

hinge on the single market and if we are in or out. If we are in, can we

have a small break on immigration? It looks like not. What is

interesting about the opinion polls is, in the last two opinion polls

there was a significant change in public opinion, where people are now

saying they think that actually trade, the economy, the single

market is more important than immigration. If it is really true,

as the observer is reporting today, that banks are on the move, and in a

year's time there could be a significant collapse in the income

we get from finance, the income that the Treasury gets, then public

opinion might change. They may say, we don't want more immigration, but

this isn't a price worth paying. Everything tends to be seen through

the Brexit lens at the moment. Things are not always as they seem.

The Canadian- EU free trade agreement was about increasing free

trade between the EU and Canada, and trade between the EU and Canada and

therefore subject to the ratification of all members. Any

deal we do will not give us the same access we have at the moment. The

question is, how much will it be diminished? It may not be subject to

the same ratification process. Absolutely right. Another

unbelievably technical point that we still don't know is, if we can get

this free-trade deal with the EU at the same time as our Brexit talks

and deal, the divorce deal as well as the remarriage deal, then one

gets signed off by QM V. The trade deal may still need all 28, all 27,

including the people from the Walloons. And the MEPs. The majority

of parliament. This is exactly why Theresa May would like the

transitional deal to push this one deeper. I was surprised to hear

Hilary Benn pushing this line this morning. The remainers have been all

over the place. They wanted a vote after Article 50 had been triggered

about the deal. Then they wanted a vote before Article 50. Now they are

talking about a vote before article Article 50 is triggered about a

trade deal. They need to make up their minds about what it is they

are pushing for, and what their best hope of obstructing Brexit is, and

stick with it. Something else we see through the Brexit lens, which isn't

always helpful, is Calais. The French bulldozers will move in

tomorrow. We will see some pretty disturbing scenes on the TV. We will

see some horrible scenes. The government has handled this very

badly. Having passed an amendment in April saying we would take something

like 3000 children, a lot of those children have disappeared. Save the

Children, one of the charities there, are very worried that people

traffickers have been in there, and a lot of those children have

vanished. We haven't sent social workers in. No preparations have

been made what ever. You are raising an interesting point. We don't know

how many we are meant to be taking. The huge argument has arisen over

what the age is of some of the ones coming in. Is this another problem

for the Home Office? To some extent. Didn't Theresa May 's too well to

survive six weeks of this? Amber Rudd has been there for three

months. It is clear that the Home Office didn't prepare for this. They

didn't prepare for the age verification or when it will go. It

needs to be an perfect. We don't know how many we will take, because

the Home Office will not say. I want to talk about airport capacity, but

I won't, because I don't think we have anything to say about it until

the statement on Tuesday from Transport Minister Grayling. When

you look at the polls and see the decision on airport runway expansion

being kicked into the long grass for a year, are we heading for an early

election next year or not? I think Theresa May will do everything she

can to avoid it. If there is an election before 2020, it is bound to

be about Europe, and that is a much harder case for her to win than just

a question of who is the best Prime Minister. She will have a tough

time, because it will be a general election about in or out of the

single market. Half of her party will peel away. How do she conduct a

general election when the likes of Anna Soubry will not stand on the

same platform? It will be difficult. But she may reach such a stalemate

that she just calls one. No general election next year because it will

split the Tory party. There will be won in 2019 when she cannot get

Brexit through the House of Commons. You really can have too much of a

good thing. I just want to show a little clip of the former Shadow

Chancellor, Ed Balls, from Strictly last night. Let's just watch this.

There he is. Where is the hand? That is the

worrying bit! We will no longer be saying that Ed Balls is a safe pair

of hands! Can we agree on that? Remarkable that he was once the man

most feared by David Cameron! Labour leader 2021. He has hit popular

culture in the way that many few politicians do. Charm, gusto,

bravery, no worries about being embarrassed. All the things that you

don't like about being a politician. We have run out of time. You can get

it on social media. Jo Coburn will be back

with the Daily Politics tomorrow And I'll be back here next

Sunday at the same time. Remember if it's Sunday,

it's the Sunday Politics. Everyone's living these

amazing lives, You're like a...

Different person? Delve deeper.

Ordinary Lives continues... They have something on me

that I can actually remember. They have something on me

that I can actually remember. The final chapter between

Gibson and Spector.