23/10/2016 Sunday Politics North East and Cumbria


Andrew Neil and Richard Moss are joined by former Ukip deputy leader Paul Nuttall, international development minister Rory Stewart and shadow defence secretary Nia Griffith.

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There's another candidate in the race to become Ukip's next


leader: Suzanne Evans, the party's former deputy chairman,


This man might have something to say about that.


Paul Nuttal was Nigel Farage's deputy for many years.


So is he now ready to throw his hat in the ring?


The battle for Mosul: the Iraqi army and its allies advane


on the country's second city which has been in the hands of


In the North East and Cumbrha.. from this key clash?


Would thousands of pounds persuade you to back fracking near your home?


And fears for our A Es and maternity units,


as health managers look for big savings.


one of the richest cities in the world. Should all private landlords


be licensed to help tackle the squalor?


And with me - as always - the best and the brightest political


panel in the business: Toby Young, Polly Toynbee and Tom Newton Dunn -


The last leader was in the job a mere 18 days before she decided


The favourite to succeed her then quit the party after a now infamous


Ukip's biggest donor says the party is at "breaking point".


This morning, the former Deputy Chairman, Suzanne Evans,


announced that she would be running for the leadership.


I've thought long and hard about this leadership bid,


and one of the reasons I've perhaps delayed announcing it is


because I wanted to be absolutely sure that I had the support


And I can confirm that I have more than enough signatures


on the nomination form already to be able to go forward.


Let's not forget that 3,000 people signed a petition in support of me


I know head office was besieged with letters in support.


I would not be doing this if I didn't have the backing


of our members, because our members are the most important


Well, Paul Nuttall was Nigel Farage's deputy for many years


and plenty of people saw him as a leader-in-waiting.


Let's ask the man himself - Paul Nuttall joins me now.


Yes. I've made the decision that I'm going to put my name forward to be


the next leader of Ukip. I have huge support across the country, not only


amongst people at the top of the party in Westminster and with the


MEPs, but also the grassroots. I want to be the unity candidate. Ukip


needs to come together. I'm not going to gild the lily. Ukip is


looking over a political cliff at the moment. It will either step four


step back, and I want to tell us to step backwards. You say it faces an


ex-distension or threat, which means it's possible it has no future at


all. Students of political history know that political parties take a


long time to get going. They can disappear pretty quickly. Ukip is


facing an existential crisis. What happened over the summer has put us


on a... We could be on a spiral that we can't get off. But I believe I am


the man to bring the factions together, to create unity within the


party, and to build on the structure and get us ready for the common


challenges. Why didn't you stand last time? Because I have spent the


last four or five years of my life travelling around the country. I


have done more Ukip meetings than anybody else, spending a lot of time


away from home. With Brexit, I felt that my job and Nigel's job was done


and we could hand over to the next generation. That doesn't seem to be


the case, and maybe it's time for someone who is an old hand. I'm very


experienced and I know the party inside out. Maybe it's time to step


in and bring the party together. You told the Liverpool Echo on the night


of July that you didn't wish to take on Nigel Farage, you didn't want


that to happen to your family and friends. What has changed? The party


is facing an existential crisis, and is facing an existential crisis and


I want to make sure that Ukip is on the pitch to keep the ball into the


open net we have in politics. We have a Conservative Party who is


moving toward Brexit, but we have to be there too. Why would you be


better than Suzanne Evans? Suzanne would be an excellent candidate I


thought the 2015 manifesto was the best out of all the political


parties. I would be the best candidate because of my experience.


I am not part of any faction within the party. Is she? I get on well


with everybody, and I believe I could be the man to bring the party


together. Do you get on with Iain Banks, -- Aaron Banks, who is


supporting one of your rivals? Yes, I get on well with him. He is able


to choose whoever he wants to be the next leader of the party. After


November 28, the leadership election, we all say, the past the


past. It becomes Daisy row for the new leader. We forget all that has


before and move on. You won the referendum. Mrs May is adopting some


of your policies, like grammar schools. What is the point of Ukip


these days? Twofold. We don't have Brexit. Mrs May said she would not


invoke Article 50 until the end of March, and we don't know if that


will happen. We need to ensure a strong Ukip to make sure that Brexit


really does mean Brexit. We have a huge opportunity in working class


communities where the Labour Party no longer represents them. I believe


Ukip can become the voice of working people. If you were the leader,


would Ukip be a bigger threat to Labour in the north or the Tories in


the South? You save Labour in the north, and people often to make that


mistake. There's working class communities right across the country


is. There are working-class communities in Bristol just


as in Newcastle. We are second in a number of northern seats, and


southern seats as well, and I believe the party can move into


these communities. It can only do so if Ukip is on the pitch, and I


intend to make sure that's the case. I don't think we have portrayed a


good image over the summer. Is that called British understatement? A


bit. It is dysfunctional. We have to move on beyond Nigel Farage. We have


to build a strong national Executive Committee. We need to ensure our


branches are ready for the fight and concentrate on local elections. I've


got the experience. I'm now throwing my hat into the ring, and I'm the


only person who can keep Ukip in the game. What role would you give Nigel


Farage, if any? I will be the candidate of compromise. I would see


what Nigel wanted to do. Would you keep in the leader of the freedom


and democracy group in the European Parliament? There would have to be


compromise on both sides, and we would need to talk about it. I don't


know what Nigel wants to do. Do you think his support, his association


with Donald Trump, helps Ukip win female votes in this country?


Personally, I would not have gone out and campaigned or said anything


about Donald Trump, but I don't think Ukip has come out and backed


Donald Trump 100%. Personally, I wouldn't have even spoken about the


American election, because I think the two candidates are quite


appalling. Some up for us. If you win, what would be the hallmark of


your Ukip leadership? The first couple of months would be ensuring


that Ukip unifies. Saying no to factions, bringing people together.


Suzanne Evans, Nigel Farage, all of the MEPs, and ensuring that Ukip can


move forward. If we don't unify, Ukip will not be around for much


longer. Thanks for being with us this morning.


We won't have to wait too long to find out who Ukip's


new leader will be - the winner will be announced


Who would be the best leader for Ukip? I think the difference between


the field a few weeks ago and today is that this field is a lot


stronger. Whether it's Paul or Suzanne, I think... It is hard to


say, with Aaron Banks and apparently Nigel Farage hacking another


candidate, Raheem, but I want Ukip to be a strong force in British


politics. I think the fact there is a stronger field now is good news


for Ukip. Is it a Labour's worst nightmare in the north of England?


It is. I think the personality difference and presentational


difference is interesting. Suzanne Evans is going for the Conservative


county vote. There's a lot to be taken there by Ukip. He would


probably be more appealing to the Labour vote. It is interesting. At


the moment, pollsters say that the Ukip vote splits pretty easily


between Labour and Tory. But things always collapse. When they have made


inroads into Tower Hamlets and Barking, they collapse, because they


fight amongst each other so much. But not always with fists! Does Ukip


have a future? And who would best secure that future? It does for at


least two years, until we Brexit. We have to believe that that will


happen. That was an impressive pitch there from Paul, certainly as the


unity candidate, after the car crash we have seen on TV screens this


morning. But it doesn't go beyond May 20 19. What then? There is no


point being called the United Kingdom Independence party any


longer. What will happen after May 2019? If you want to hoover up votes


of the back of Brexit, you need to start looking further ahead than two


years. The person who wins that leadership contest is the person who


will sum that up the best. We shall see.


In June 2014, the group which calls itself the Islamic State in Iraq


and the Levant captured Iraq's second city, Mosul.


Later that month the group announced it was establishing a 'caliphate',


or an Islamic state, on the territories it


This week 30,000 Iraqi troops, aided by Iranian-backed Shia fighters,


Kurdish Peshmerga and Western air support, began the assault


Then they spot a truck bomb from so-called Islamic State.


They destroy it before it destroys them.


These are the first steps in the battle for Mosul,


the Northern Iraqi city IS has made its stronghold since 2014.


Controlling the city of around 2 million people means


that they established governance, they establish a territorial base.


This is what has obsessed everyone, because with a territorial base


you are capable of doing more than if you are simply an insurgency


movement in the fabric of another society.


It's being billed as the biggest military operation in Iraq


since the war in 2003, the biggest moment in the international effort


Here is how the various forces are approaching the city.


Heading to Mosul from the south, the elite troops of the Iraqi army.


Known as the Golden division, trained and accompanied


From the North, a force made up of Kurds, known as the Peshmerga,


Also from the South, a militia made up of Shia fighters


who have been accused of human rights abuses.


British planes have bombed outlying villages, reportedly guided


in by British personnel on the ground.


To the North West, a corridor has been left for some


of the 3000 plus IS fighters, in theory an escape route


which could limit the bloodshed when fighting starts in the city.


We've had 4-5 days of battle and it's taking place


in the outlying villages and there have been some


successes and some failures, but the momentum is building.


And the real question will be when the attackers get


towards the city itself, how strong are the defences?


It will crack but it might crack within 48 hours or 2-3 weeks.


IS has fought back, on Friday they attack sites


in the city of Kirkuk, including a power station.


The United Nations believes hundreds of thousands of families


have been rounded up as potential human shields.


The battle could be bloody, but what about when it's over?


The Shia militias, the Iraqi army, the Peshmerga guerrillas,


some of the Turkish elements, they all want a share of the action.


They are in Mosul, not for altruistic reasons.


They are there because they want to be part of whatever happens next.


The biggest issue is how the Sunni majority in Mosul reacts to the Shia


militias which have helped to liberate them.


ARCHIVE FOOTAGE: When Sir Francis Humphrey went to Mosul


If it all seems like something from the archive, when the Middle


East went up in flames and was then carved up,


it is because that is what is happening in Iraq right now.


National identity has been cut across by other identities such


And that means that putting together a so-called nation state again


Almost certainly there will be a new form of Kurdish state,


almost certainly in northern Iraq at the end of this crisis,


and what is happening in Mosul is a microcosm of what is happening


elsewhere across the Levant which is that it is melting down.


Big questions, questions that come after the battle.


The coalition forces are advancing but this is just the beginning.


I'm joined now by the International Development Minister Rory Stewart.


In a former life he was the coalition Deputy-Governor of two


provinces in Southern Iraq following the Iraq intervention of 2003.


Is there any doubt that at some stage Mosul will fall to the forces


of Iraq and its allies? The first thing is that war is very uncertain


and there are cliches about it being the graveyard of predictions and we


don't want to make confident predictions but the basic structure


is that there are 30,000 Iraqi forces outside and only a few


thousand Daesh fighters inside and I would say it is overwhelmingly


likely that the batter will one STUDIO: -- the battle the won by the


Iraqi forces. June 2014 was a great success, they


took a city of over in people and they created what they tried to


create a million state of 7 million people, stretching across the Iraqi


Syrian border, but since then they have lost territory quite rapidly.


Now they are losing the outskirts of Mosul, and that is a fundamental


blow. Islamic State is all about territory and holding state, that is


what makes it different from Al-Qaeda. If they lose Mosul that


will be a cynic -- significant blow to their credibility. Hillary


Clinton said on Wednesday's presidential debate that when Iraqi


forces with their allies including the United Kingdom gain control of


Mosul they should continue to press into Syria to take back Raqqa which


is the de facto capital of the caliphate, what is left of it, do we


want Iraqi forces to pursue IS into Syria? Very important question.


Delayed in Raqqa needs to come from people on the Syrian side of the


border and that is an important principle -- the lead. In the end of


that enemy, Islamic State, is a common enemy for odd members of the


coalition including the Iraqi government. -- all members. There is


likely to be a humanitarian crisis especially if it ends up with street


to street fighting and IS are difficult to dislodge what are we


doing about that? We are doing very detailed scenario planning. It is


very uncertain what the scenario will be but much investment has gone


into creating a network of camps, refugees STUDIO: Refugee camps


around cash refugee camps, and that is where money, British money, ?40


million has gone recently into supporting that, especially in terms


of medical support to people. The United nation's emergency response


budget is ?196 million but only one third funded which sounds like we


are putting up a big chunk of what is already being funded. Why is


that? The international committee can't say they haven't seen this


assault coming, and the humanitarian fallout they may see from it. You


are absolutely right. We have seen it coming and we have been planning


since debris and we have put in about ?167 million into this --


planning since February. There has been a change in the nature of the


appeal, and if there is a lag in the accounting of it, but the money we


need at this stage is in place and we do have the support structure in


place for those refugees. You are right the United Nations is


continuing with its appeal and is asking for more money at the moment.


The converse magazine wrote this week that preparations for a big


exodus of people leaving the city have been made -- Economist


magazine. But confidence is not high in the preparations, is that a


unfair conclusion? If you can imagine the different scenarios, it


could be a few thousand and it could be a few hundred thousand coming out


of the city through a front line where the war is going on, that is


very difficult. You have to screen those people and disarm them, and


keep families together, and transport them and you have to bring


them into the refugee camps. The people working on this have been


working on this for long time, we have mapped the different routes we


have good camp infrastructure in place and we have people who have


worked in south to dam and other areas who are putting their


structures in place -- South Sudan. It is never easy but I think we have


done everything we can in the preparation for this. What is the


British role in what will probably be an even bigger issue, assuming


that Mosul is liberated and retaken, the humanitarian crisis is dealt


with, what role will we play in the rebuilding of Mosul? That will be


crucial to the future of Iraq, the second-biggest city and it will need


to be rebuilt. It will need to be rebuilt as a community as well as


bricks and mortar. And eight Sunni community that is not harassed by


the Shia. -- and eight. You are right. One of the core drivers is


that the Sunni community felt excluded and they did not feel they


have the trust from the Baghdad government. A lasting solution is


stopping some of Islamic State coming back, that involves making


sure the Sunni community have a stake in their future. That is


making sure that the governing structures are in place. The UK s


response is twofold, we have got to get the humanitarian aid right, that


is the short term, people who might be malnourished, coming out of the


front line. The second thing is working with the Iraqi government to


make sure that as we rebuild Mosul we do so in a way that that


population feels a connection to the Iraqi state. Islamic State is losing


territory everywhere in the Levant, it is almost finished in Iraq, we


think. It is down to one district in Libya, as well, just one small part


of the town. I suppose the risk is, if life is becoming more difficult


across these areas, it can start to look more in Europe and the United


Kingdom as a place to continue its terrorist attacks? That is a real


danger. You are right. This is a group which has proved over the last


five years very unpredictable and it changes for it quickly full stop


often it does unexpected things. In often it does unexpected things In


2009 its predecessor had been largely wiped out in Iraq and when


it was under pressure in Syria it went back into Iraq, and in the past


it didn't hold territory but now it holds territory, so you are right.


There is a serious risk that as it gets squeezed in the middle East it


will try to pop up somewhere else and Mac could include Europe and the


United States -- that could. They say that is something they have


focused on full stop we also have a big focus on counterterrorism


security and making sure that we keep the United Kingdom and Europe


say. One final question. -- say -- safe. Maybe events in Mosul could


add to the migration crisis in Europe, is that a possibility?


Again, you are right, we have seen in Syria it can push migration, the


biggest push the migration was the conflict in Syria, and that's the


reason why we have but so much energy into getting those refugee


camps in place and getting the humanitarian response in place --


humanitarian response in place - put so much energy. People will want


to remain in their homes, this is their country, but we have got to


make it possible for them and that means in the short term looking


after their shelter and in the medium to long-term making sure they


have livelihoods, jobs and an economic development which is why


our support in Iraq is in the UK National interests because it deals


with these issues of migration and terrorists. Thanks for joining us.


I'm joined now by the Shadow Defence Secretary.


Does Labour support British participation in this offensive? We


participation in this offensive We fully support the participation in


this offensive, extremely important move forward and we voted for this


back in 2014. We are asking the government question is, of course, I


was asking the Secretary of State this week about this very offensive


but we are fully behind our RAF pilots out there and be trading that


has been going on to help the forces on the ground. -- the training full


stop that is very clear. I wonder if you'll lead it shares that clarity


and that position. -- is your leader. This is what Jeremy Corbyn


has said. What's been done in Iraq


is done by the Iraqi government, and currently


supported by the British government. I did not support it


when it came up. Well, I'm not sure how successful


it's been, because most of the action now appears to be


moving in to Syria, so I think we He doesn't sound very supportive.


The issue about Mosul, it has been very carefully prepared as Rory


Stewart said and I hope we have learned the lessons from previous


offensives where we haven't learnt sufficiently, and that is going to


be crucial in this context. How the aftermath is going to be dealt with.


Of course will stop that clip was from November last year, and things


have changed. Two weeks ago he told the BBC" I'm not sure it is


working", in reference to air strikes in Iraq, but it is working.


We have got to see what happens in Mosul, it is a very high-risk


operation, but we also have to face the fact that the people there are


living under tyranny at the moment. We have to ask very cirrus question


shall stop he says he's not sure it is working, when Mosul is the last


major target be cleared of Islamic State in Iraq. The combination of


Allied air power has worked, why is he not sure it is working? Because


we have seen difficulties in the past. But this was two weeks ago. It


is essential that the work is done, both planning for the refugees as


Rory Stewart referred to, but also in terms of reconstruction of the


city and its community as you mentioned. These are vital. This was


about the ability to make progress with Allied air power, special


forces in Iraq, on the ground, do you accept so far that has a


strategy that seems to be working to read Iraq of Islamic -- to read Iraq


of Islamic State the question of the car began placement. Ulloa -- we


can't be complacent. The problems they are creating where ever they


are urged that we must continue to pursue them. This is the first time


we have spoken to since you have become the Shadow Defence Secretary.


I hope we will have a longer interview. Will Labour's next


manifesto include a commitment to the renewal of Trident? It will We


made that commitment in 2007, that is a firm commitment and we will


honour that to our coalition allies and our industrial partners and that


is the vote which was taken democratically and repeatedly has


been reaffirmed by Labour conference and we are a democratic party vote


up you have squared that with Jeremy Corbyn? He's in favour of democracy


and he understands the situation, but we also want to push for the UK


to play a much bigger role on the international stage on multilateral


disarmament talks. You were very clear there, I thank you for that.


Support for Trident will be in the next Labour manifesto. What has


happened to Labour's review of Trident policy? That review has been


taking place over the year, we had a very clear reaffirmation in the


conference boat this year, we are reaffirming our commitment to


Trident -- vote. The review can t Trident -- vote. The review can't


change that? There is a process of review and a fair number of issues


related to defence, all parties do this. Of course. The review can t


this. Of course. The review can't change the commitment to Trident? We


are not changing the commitment to Trident. Russia is now the main


strategic threat to this country? It is a major strategic threat and we


have got to work with our Nato allies very closely and make sure


that we respond and that we do not let things pass. For example, we


should be calling out Russia for the way it has been a bombing


humanitarian aid and we should be taking them to international court


over this, but we should also be strengthening sanctions, somewhat


imposed over Ukraine. We try to do that, but the Italians wouldn't let


us. The Italians did not want to participate in the European


initiative but that doesn't stop individual countries for the Britain


should step up? Yes, we should look at what is practical to impose.


Thanks for joining us. Mosul is not the only major battle


being waged in the Middle East. The city of Aleppo in northern Syria


has seen some of the heaviest bombardment since Syria's


five-year-long civil war began. This week Russian warships,


in a deliberate show of power, sailed west through the English


channel en route to Syria. Nato says it's Russia's "largest


surface deployment" since the end of the Cold War in what is thought


to be preparation for a final assault


on the besieged city of Aleppo. In the city itself fighting


resumed overnight - following a 3-day ceasefire -


with more air strikes and heavy clashes in the city's


rebel-held eastern districts. Almost 500 people have been


killed and 2,000 injured since Syrian government forces,


backed by Russian air strikes, This week Theresa May condemned


Vladimir Putin's involvement in Syria, accusing Moscow


of being behind "sickening atrocities" in support


of President Assad's regime. But European leaders are divided


on how to respond and, with the United States preoccupied


with domestic politics, President Putin senses this


is his moment to bring the Syrian I'm joined now by the BBC's former


Diplomatic and Moscow Correspondent, Bridget Kendall, who is now Master


of Peterhouse College in Cambridge. Welcome. Good to see you in the BBC


studio again. Let me put up this satellite image of Aleppo here, to


get an idea of the scale. It was the biggest city in Syria. It was the


commercial capital and a huge cultural hub as well. Almost the New


York of Syria, to give you an idea of its significance to the country.


Let me show you now how it's been divided. The rebels are now in


control of the eastern part, about eight miles long and three miles


wide there, they're in purple. They are under great attacks still. Is it


inevitable that that purple part falls to the regime? That is what


President as Saad, the Russians and the Iranians hope. The fierce


bombardments we have seen is part of that. I'm reminded very much in the


Russian tactics of what happened in grudgingly in Chechnya in 2000, when


the Russians said, a warning for all civilians to lead, and then they


went ahead and they basically raised it to the ground. They are talking


about Al Nusrah as being one of the rebel groups. They got rid of all of


the terrorists. They talk about it being an Al-Qaeda offshoot. The


purpose of going in is to get rid of them. You get the civilians out and


then you take it. But this isn't like Chechnya. It is much more


complex. We have seen an attempt to take Aleppo before, and then there


was a rebel counter offensive. It's not so certain. And there are so


many different parties involved. We have seen the alarm in the west of


the extent of the civilian casualties. There have been


rumblings in the west of, shouldn't the United States do something?


Shouldn't they stop the Syrian air force? This Russian aircraft carrier


steaming its way towards the Eastern Mediterranean is a symbolic gesture,


both to its own people, but also to the West, to say, don't get involved


in Aleppo if we go ahead. Don't try and stop us because we could up the


ante. They have not been great visual pictures, because the


aircraft carrier looks a bit clapped out, belching out smoke! If the


rebel controlled area does fall it would be seen as a great victory for


President as Saad and his Russian allies. What is the aim of Russia


here? What would they then do, if Aleppo Falls? It is part of a plan


that President Putin set out in his UN speech in 2014, before Russia


went into Syria. The aim is to put President Assad back in charge.


President Putin said this weekend that either is Assad in Damascus, or


its Al Nusrah. There is nothing in between. They want to eliminate the


argument for a moderate opposition. They want to make it plain that the


only way to get a stable Syria is to have Assad back in charge. Even sue


argue for a rump steak lit, leaving aside what is happening with IAS.


They have already said they want to have an enlarged military presence


at their bases. And they have a big naval base. It is. It is a chance to


push for this when he sees the West is being distracted and divided.


Europe and America, by elections and so on. Just before the US elections.


The Americans are worried about that, Europeans are being distracted


by Brexit. He can push to his maximum advantage now, before there


is a new US president. If they do take that part of Aleppo, and that


part of northern Syria, does Mr Putin want us to recognise, to


admit, that that is now his sphere of influence? I think the rhetoric


from the Russians is that they want the West to recognise that they are


an equal powerful partner. It's not just the US that runs the writ in


the Middle East. Russia is as important as it is. It is engaging


with Saudi Arabia and has mended fences with Turkey. Syria is the


place from which it can launch its message that it is a big player in


the Middle East. Russia wants the West to understand that this isn't a


country that was dismembered after the end of the Soviet Union and is


now a week. It is back, and it is strong. That is an important


message. Looking at the economy. strong. That is an important


message. Looking at the economy It message. Looking at the economy. It


is in recession. GDP has been falling, partly because of the price


of oil. It is highly dependent on hydrocarbons, and is expected to


fall again. Its people are falling again. People don't realise how


small the Russian economy is. Its GDP is about the size of Italy's. It


is smaller than the UK economy. Bigger than it was 15 or 20 years


ago. But so is Britain's does it help to take people's mind of this?


A huge shock to the Russian economy was a drop in the price of oil and a


price of gas. A drop in the price of the ruble as well. This is hurting


the people of Russia. On the one hand, it is the war in Syria, which


is very important for Russia to sort out that part of the world and


dispensed terrorists who might be danger to -- is dangerous to Russia.


But he had also has presidential election is going up. They are


supposed to be 2018, but some feel he will bring them forward to 2 17,


he will bring them forward to 2017, because the economy is not doing so


well. But you need a good story for the Russian people. Thank you very


much. We say goodbye to viewers


in Scotland who leave us now Hello and welcome to your


local part of the show. More spending than ever before


on the NHS, yet still acciddnt and emergency departments


and maternity units We report on health managers' plans


to find more than ?1 billion in savings.


Labour Shadow Cabinet member and MP for Wansbeck, Ian Lavery,


is here to talk about that. Alongside him, the Conservative MP


for Thirsk and Malton, will a cash handout be enough


to persuade householders to allow fracking for shale gas


near their homes? Inflation up to 1% this week


and likely to head higher with the rising price of petrol


and food imports. Unemployment in the region


has fallen, though - down 9,000 on the last quarter


in the North East. There were falls too in the numbers


claming Job Seekers' Allowance Ian Lavery, is there really


a cause for concern here? Inflation is still historic`lly low


and 1%, we would be celebrating another times


if inflation was that low. Jobs figures show that our


economy is in good shape? It doesn't show that the economy


is in good shape. The reality, in context


with regards to employment, we are still as a region


the highest region for We are still the region


where there is least employment, we are a blackspot for zero hours


contracts, for part-time employment. We have got the lowest wages


in the whole of the UK. Not really something


we should be celebrating. But it's what type of employment


we have here in the North E`st. And we are in a low-wage economy


in a -- and spiralling down. And it will cause huge problems


if there is a continued increase in inflation, an increase in prices


for people who already... We have a record number of people


in work claiming benefits Using food banks, we cannot do too


much in terms of celebrating Kevin Hollinrake, that's


the point, isn't it? With inflationary pressures growing,


it will be the poorest, a lot of people in our


region, who will suffer. Nationally, we are one


of the fastest-growing economies Our economy was in recession


in 2010, there has been a miracle There have been 2 million jobs


created in the private Generally, record employment,


record low unemployment. Do you expect that to continue


with all the pressure is a head? Certainly, there are question marks


over what our future relationship We need to get that right,


to secure our job prospects, But at the moment, the economy


is growing, it is growing a decent levels and we need to make


sure that is the case. Clearly, the lowering


of sterling in terms of world I'm sure those issues will be


discussed many times over the next A protest to protect the local


NHS began this weekend with marchers making their way


from North Yorkshire They say hospital services


in their area, including accident and emergency departments


and maternity units, But as the NHS across the region


looks to save money, The government says efficiencies


are vital but denies We're marching from the hospital


in Northallerton to Darlington Jo and her friends have become


so concerned about what might happen to the services where they live


they are marching from hospital All services in our NHS footprint


area, which is the area that we are walking,


are under threat. The NHS Trust bosses and CCGs have


denied the existence of these documents but we have seen them,


we know that we could end up I found out about this


through googling and The NHS exec hasn't been sharing


this with us. They haven't been open


and transparent, as far What Jo and other campaigners


are worried about are what hs known about sustainability


and transformation plans. These have been drawn up


for each health region, or footprint, across


the country and have now bedn In the North East and Cumbrha,


draft plans and other documents this programme has seen says that this


NHS here will be more than ?1 billion over budget by 021


if it doesn't make efficiency savings and change the way


health care is delivered. On Teesside, that might mean


the downgrading of accident and emergency units at either


or both the North Tees Hosphtal in Stockton, or here


at the Darlington Memorial Hospital. And across the wider Teesside area,


the delivery of acute medicine and surgery,


orthopaedics, gynaecology, maternity, neonatal,


intensive care and paediatrhc This is going to have


massive impact in my area. The North East is one of thd areas


in the country that has the lowest life expectancy,


the poorest health. These aren't savings, or efficiency,


these are cuts to the NHS btdget at a time when, because of an ageing


population and because of complex health needs, we need to have more


spent on the NHS in the North East. This is going to have


a devastating blow. We asked those behind the NHS


sustainability and transforlation plans for Durham and Teesside


for an interview, but they declined. We were also given only very limited


information and details of their plans for health


care in the area. But the Health Secretary told


a select committee this week that a more efficient health service does


not mean a worse one. What I don't accept is that in order


to make those efficiency savings, you have to make changes that will


impact negatively on patient care. And I think that there are of course


those easy ways to make savings, which is to reduce the availability


of care for patients and there is the harder way,


but the right way, which is to ways that improve care and improve


efficiency at the same time. With winter approaching,


the NHS is under pressure. And in the longer term,


what the NHS does and what hs spent on it is once more becoming a battle


ground between the Well, the Prime Minister was this


week asked to intervene to save a maternity unit


in Cumbria from closure. Copeland's MP Jamie Reed urged


Theresa May to take up the hssue. Removal of 24-hour consultant-led


maternity services from the West Cumbria Hospital


in Whitehaven will cost livds. And this is a decision


which ultimately, the government Will the Prime Minister please


commit today to visit my constituency to see what the effect


of this decision will be upon West Cumbrian families,


women and children. I say to the honourable gentleman,


I recognise that this is not the first time he has


raised his concerns in relation Can I say to him that the point of


the way in which we are approaching this is that decisions are taken


and generated from the local level. It is at the local area


that they will be looking at the services that


are necessary for people. Kevin Hollinrake, called


deficiencies, savings, ?1 billion that needs to be found


in an overstretched health service. As Labour says, that sounds


like a crisis. I want to take issue with one


of the comments by Ian Wright. There is record amounts of spending


going into the health service. More than any other political


party has committed to. Also, the money spent


in the North East is far greater per person than is spent


in North Yorkshire. So what we do need to make sure


is that taxpayers' money So it is quite right,


within the NHS, the way it's managed, that services come


together, whether that be hdalth trusts, local authorities


or the Clinical Commissioning Groups which commission the care,


to make sure they are using that But ?1 billion is an awful


lot of money. And the suspicion is,


whatever Jeremy Hunt says, You will see accident


and emergency services going. In some of those documents that


were leaks, there were suggestions -- in some of those documents that


were leaked, The budget is not being cut


but the NHS needs to work This is taxpayers' money,


this is patient care. It is quite right that we look


to make efficiencies and work The financial figures are there


more money is going in. The problem is that Labour's answer


appears to be don't close anything, I think it's important that we keep


what we got in the NHS. the reality is the savings, or cuts,


in real terms to the NHS, what it will result in in otr area


is closure is of A E, closures of maternity units and it


might even mean closures The Northumberland, Tyne


and Wear Trust by 2021 is looking If they have got that deficht,


how on earth can they cut that without cutting services


and closing hospitals? Because as Kevin Hollinrake says,


the government is putting more money The government are not putting more


money in the NHS in real terms. . When we look at the situation,


these five-year plans... These footprints, these secret


meetings which are taking place these meetings where you cannot get


sight of any minutes, where there isn't any


accountability, there isn't any transparency within these


footprints committees, And the general public


are loose any confidence... -- the general public are losing


confidence. There is real terms growth in NHS


spending from central government and the vicious need to Google that,


Google King 's fund, an independent The only place that has had real


terms cuts is Wales, which hs run Let me raise one issue


which Labour did raise. It's very difficult for members


of the public to try and ways through, and even the journ`list,


to find out what is going on with these proposals


and these trust. And that can lead to scare stories


but also reality is being hhdden. These proposals were published


in December, the idea for those were published


in December 2015 by the NHS. But the trust are not telling us


what they are proposing? Jeremy Hunt, when he came up


to the hospital in Cramlington on a private visit, wouldn't talk


to journalists and ended up interviewing himself


on social media. This is going into consultation


I've had into this consultation. -- I have had input into thhs


consultation. and the commissioning groups should


listen, as should central government, to make sure th`t we get


this right and we don't make cuts where that will cost lives,


but is absolutely right that we have an efficient hdalth


service and that is What is the answer, Ian Lavdry?


It can't just be about more money. The sustainability and


transformation five-year pl`ns, there are 44 footprints


across the country. They are not consulting


with anybody, they are not providing any evidence.


There is no transparency. Is that the way to operate such


a great institution? The Labour Party is quite fhrm


and the polls show that the general public believe that the NHS is much


safer in the hands When not in the business of looking


to the cut the budget for the NHS... Kevin Hollinrake, if Theresa May


sticks to her decision that she doesn't want to put any


more money into the NHS, any extra, there will be


a winter crisis, won't that? Well, of course we have got to make


sure that the efficiencies, We committed to a budget colmitment


to the NHS leading through the 2020 that was exactly


what Simon Stephens asked for, who was the Chief


Executive of the NHS. She has said that we have to work


within that budget. Beyond that, we have to look again


at health services and at adult social care to make sure th`t we


have a properly funded system. Now, we know there are plenty


of protests when people find an open cast coal mine or a wind farm


is planned near their homes. But to make it more palatable,


it's long been the case that areas affected by such planning decisions


receive compensation to bendfit Well, the Government is taking that


idea a stage further when it comes to the controversial issue


of drilling for shale gas - High in the Durham Dales,


these turbines have been Generating power and clocking up


cash for nearby Esh Winning. The village community centrd's


kitchen is the latest to be kitted out with cash from a fund sdt up


by the wind farm developer. In the last year alone,


?200,000 from such communitx benefit funds has been doled


out in County Durham. I think it's really important that


local communities who have in their environment,


in this case, renewable energy sources, contributing


to the national need for renewable energy, they receive


some benefits for that. And because these benefit ftnds


are awarded from a community panel, it is the community panel


that make the decision, it's a great way for


the local community to take But can cash really


over, controversy? Protesters hoping to hold plans


to extract shale gas They failed and now


fracking, as some call it, Behind those green gates


are the sites that have Where the shale gas


will be extracted. But the government says communities


around here could share in this Bit like the wind farms,


proceeds from shale gas extraction But in nearby Kirby Misperton,


opposition seems undimmed. There may be more


temptation on the way. To corrupt a famous catchphrase


the government doesn't just want to give communities this


cheque, it is also considerhng Consulting on whether individual


householders get up to ?20,000 The fund will get 10% of the tax


revenues from shale gas. ?20,000 to accept fracking near your


home, Deal or no Deal? Definitely no Deal.


You can keep it. I think it's a cynical ploy, it s


a bribe to try to get people onside. Firstly, you could get to ?20,0 0,


but you have to price will fall. -- but you will house price will


fall. -- but your house price. Secondly, it's very poor


compensation for the risks that people are going


to face from these wells. Their health and their well,being,


implications of fracking. It's an unknown industry


in this country, still. This holiday complex


is run by Lorraine. She sees no problem


in the communities or individuals benefiting from an industry


she welcomes. If they are near a shale gas


well and they've got to have the inconvenience


of trucks going past for a temporary amount of time,


then why shouldn't And imagine the trade that `ll this


activity would bring for all the different businesses


in this area. The government consultation on how


the Shale Welfare Fund But so far, there are plentx


of people in Ryedale who are not yet persuaded their community


will be better off. Kevin Hollinrake, the protesters


are right, this is bribery? The decision to push ahead


with shale gas exploration was taken in Parliament by 2015,


passed by a huge majority, 250 beds, because it is


a national opportunity. 22 million homes in the UK tse gas


to heat their homes. So if we've got it


and we can produce it, Because if you import it,


then you export jobs. Now, of course when it comes local


at that point, some people are bound to have concerns and tempor`rily


have some inconvenience in terms of noise pollution, light pollution,


traffic movements... So individual payments are fine


from your point of view? I think it's right that local people


who suffer the inconvenient should But it's for inconvenience,


not for pollution I think those are scare stories that


are absolutely without foundation. The particular development


in your constituency in Kirby Misperton,


is subject to a High Court How confident are you that it


will still go ahead. But one thing viewers should


look at, in your clip, you were studied in front


of what is actually a gas wdll pad. And all you can see


is a collection of trees. That will not industrialise


the countryside in Ryedale. If it did, or there was a likelihood


that it would, I was up -- Ian Lavery, the principle


is the same, why shouldn't I'm not sure that anybody living


next to an opencast mine has Individuals haven't


as yet, but you agree The government came up inithally


with the compensation in terms of the shale wealth fund


for the communities to prob`bly use for infrastructure programmds,


skills and development. They have changed their view now


because that was not widely received in the communities and now


they are trying to bribe individuals, but neighbour


against neighbour, friend Well, Labour was lukewarm


on fracking, now it And yet, as Kevin Hollinrake says,


a lot of imported gas, why not Well I was on the energy select


committee for five years I gave fracking a chance,


by the way, I thought it was important...


Your party doesn't. What is really important is


that we listen to what commtnities And it's quite obvious that


communities want no part What happened to localism


in the Conservative Party? He has made that same point


for housing development, We as MPs get complaints


about all these things. I understand that communitids


are concerned and I have worked very hard over the last 18 months to meet


those concerns, to reduce the numbers of well pads,


to make sure we have the proper regulations in place


and the supervision. Because that is what they


are concerned about. But there are too many scard


stories going around. Now, contrasting fortunes for


libraries in the region this week. And a visit to Westminster


for council leaders on Teesside Just a couple of the stories making


the news in our regular Council leaders in the Tees Valley


have met Local Government Secretary Sajid Javid to the final totches


to the devolution deal. The Minister says


Teesside will benefit. He criticised those other


counties in the North East And that's really bad for local


people in terms of jobs and growth Berwick MP Anne Marie Trevelyan has


told a Westminster debate that changes to the way homes


are provided for military personnel could drive families away from bases


into privately rented homes, increasing isolation


and damaging morale. Many families have been sayhng to me


this would be the last straw, A public hearing is taking place


in Carlisle about planned boundary changes which could see West Cumbria


lose a parliamentary seat. And finally, The Word,


a ?1.6 million library and cultural It's part of South Tyneside


Council's plan to regenerate In Sunderland, councillors blamed


government cuts for the closure of their city centre


library and its relocation Ian Lavery, to bring up the


libraries. To Labour councils, different outcomes. South Tyneside


has a nice new one and Sunddrland has a nice new one and Sunddrland


bemoaning removing theirs. Doesn't it show that this is local


decision-making, not blaming government cuts? We have to look at


government cuts. When you look at the grand system which in Tory hails


councils, they have had a cut of councils, they have had a cut of


something like ?60 per household. In the Labour seat,, it is nearly


300... Still a lot of money coming here rather than the south. I feel


really sorry for these councils. Councillors do not go into the


business of running local authorities to keep cutting and


cutting. Libraries are very important. I think they havd got


cutting. Libraries are very important. I think they have got a


important. I think they havd got a duty to look at where they needed


pay... They are so important, I need to ask the other guest! This is


happening in your area. Libraries handed the volunteers. My area as


well as suffering from cuts. You may be point that my local area gets a


lot less from central government grant than urban areas. We get a


worse deal but we are still getting cuts. The library services hn terms


cuts. The library services in terms of their budgets have been cut. We


haven't seen any closures ydt. haven't seen any closures yet.


Community groups are setting in which is good. But we are still in


this country is spending ?70 billion a year more than...


And that's about it from us for this week.


So, Brexit, airports, Calais and the chances


With what Rory Stewart was saying there, it is clear that Islamic


State is losing territory in Iraq now, and could come under pressure


in Syria as well. It used to control a whole swathe of the coast of


Libya, and is now down to a small area of Sirte in Libya. But


curiously, it could make them more dangerous here if they are being


driven out of the Maghreb and the Levant, they could be more dangerous


here. Discuss. That was a very interesting admission from a


government minister, of all people, and a well-informed one. Chasing


Isis around the Middle East is about... Like chasing Al-Qaeda


around Afghanistan and Pakistan. You smash them somewhere, and they pop


up somewhere else. He is right to warn that these guys will go


somewhere. And it may well be, in Sirte, for example, across the magic


oration -- across the Mediterranean into Italy. A lot of the foreign


fighters in Mosul have already gone, we heard, which raises the question,


to where? I think it is quite right for government ministers to warn


that it might have repercussions here. We have been involved in this,


with full public consent, as far as we can tell. If it doesn't happen,


if there are horrors and outrages here and in the rest of Europe,


that's fine. If it does happen, at least the government is prepared. We


knew surprised about how categorical Nia Griffith was? She was


categorical about support for the Allied action in Iraq, and


categorical about Russia. So much so that perhaps written should take


tougher sanctions on its own, even if it can't get the Europeans to


fall in line. I found that interesting. I was surprised by


that. Tom may be right that Rory said more than perhaps he was


intending, but I thought that some of what she said sounded politically


imprudent in the current context of the Labour Party. I'm not sure she


cleared those lines with the Labour office. I'm not sure she and Jeremy


are in the same place about it. I'm not sure there is that much


leadership. People at the moment get out there and say what they think


it's right for the party. She sounded dead right to me. Whether it


is ill-advised or not, people should answer... I want to move on, because


Brexit never goes away. This week we saw Hilary Benn, former Shadow


Foreign Secretary. He is going to be the chair of the select committee in


the Commons which will monitor the Department for Brexit. All sorts of


people will be coming to give testimony and so one. Let's hear


what he told Andrew Marr. I think it will be very important


for the government to indicate that if it is not possible within the two


years provided for by Article 5 to negotiate both our withdrawal


agreement and a new trading relationship, market access,


including for services, 80% of our economy, million jobs,


in financial services, that it should tell the House


of Commons that it will seek a transitional arrangement


with the European Union. If the deal is not done at the end


of the two-year Article 50 process, would the government go for an


interim agreement, or would it fall back on WTO, World Trade


Organisation, Rawls? My understanding is the article 15


negotiation doesn't specifically include what Britain's future


trading relationship with the EU would be. It is perfectly possible


that Article 50 could be triggered, and after two years we don't have a


trade deal, but the trade deal negotiations are ongoing when we are


outside the EU. But the trade deal negotiations are the most important


thing. If Article 50 doesn't cover it, what is it about? Absolutely


essential. The trade deal with Canada has taken nine years, and now


it looks like it is fading, because of the Walloons. Just one small part


of the country. If you cannot do a free-trade deal with Canada, a


progressive, social Democratic Canada, who can the EU do a trade


deal with? You would think it would be easy with us, because we have all


of the level playing field agreements in place. You would hope


it would be easier, but it may not be, because in the end, it will


hinge on the single market and if we are in or out. If we are in, can we


have a small break on immigration? It looks like not. What is


interesting about the opinion polls is, in the last two opinion polls


there was a significant change in public opinion, where people are now


saying they think that actually trade, the economy, the single


market is more important than immigration. If it is really true,


as the observer is reporting today, that banks are on the move, and in a


year's time there could be a significant collapse in the income


we get from finance, the income that the Treasury gets, then public


opinion might change. They may say, we don't want more immigration, but


this isn't a price worth paying. Everything tends to be seen through


the Brexit lens at the moment. Things are not always as they seem.


The Canadian- EU free trade agreement was about increasing free


trade between the EU and Canada, and trade between the EU and Canada and


therefore subject to the ratification of all members. Any


deal we do will not give us the same access we have at the moment. The


question is, how much will it be diminished? It may not be subject to


the same ratification process. Absolutely right. Another


unbelievably technical point that we still don't know is, if we can get


this free-trade deal with the EU at the same time as our Brexit talks


and deal, the divorce deal as well as the remarriage deal, then one


gets signed off by QM V. The trade deal may still need all 28, all 27,


including the people from the Walloons. And the MEPs. The majority


of parliament. This is exactly why Theresa May would like the


transitional deal to push this one deeper. I was surprised to hear


Hilary Benn pushing this line this morning. The remainers have been all


over the place. They wanted a vote after Article 50 had been triggered


about the deal. Then they wanted a vote before Article 50. Now they are


talking about a vote before article Article 50 is triggered about a


trade deal. They need to make up their minds about what it is they


are pushing for, and what their best hope of obstructing Brexit is, and


stick with it. Something else we see through the Brexit lens, which isn't


always helpful, is Calais. The French bulldozers will move in


tomorrow. We will see some pretty disturbing scenes on the TV. We will


see some horrible scenes. The government has handled this very


badly. Having passed an amendment in April saying we would take something


like 3000 children, a lot of those children have disappeared. Save the


Children, one of the charities there, are very worried that people


traffickers have been in there, and a lot of those children have


vanished. We haven't sent social workers in. No preparations have


been made what ever. You are raising an interesting point. We don't know


how many we are meant to be taking. The huge argument has arisen over


what the age is of some of the ones coming in. Is this another problem


for the Home Office? To some extent. Didn't Theresa May 's too well to


survive six weeks of this? Amber Rudd has been there for three


months. It is clear that the Home Office didn't prepare for this. They


didn't prepare for the age verification or when it will go. It


needs to be an perfect. We don't know how many we will take, because


the Home Office will not say. I want to talk about airport capacity, but


I won't, because I don't think we have anything to say about it until


the statement on Tuesday from Transport Minister Grayling. When


you look at the polls and see the decision on airport runway expansion


being kicked into the long grass for a year, are we heading for an early


election next year or not? I think Theresa May will do everything she


can to avoid it. If there is an election before 2020, it is bound to


be about Europe, and that is a much harder case for her to win than just


a question of who is the best Prime Minister. She will have a tough


time, because it will be a general election about in or out of the


single market. Half of her party will peel away. How do she conduct a


general election when the likes of Anna Soubry will not stand on the


same platform? It will be difficult. But she may reach such a stalemate


that she just calls one. No general election next year because it will


split the Tory party. There will be won in 2019 when she cannot get


Brexit through the House of Commons. You really can have too much of a


good thing. I just want to show a little clip of the former Shadow


Chancellor, Ed Balls, from Strictly last night. Let's just watch this.


There he is. Where is the hand? That is the


worrying bit! We will no longer be saying that Ed Balls is a safe pair


of hands! Can we agree on that? Remarkable that he was once the man


most feared by David Cameron! Labour leader 2021. He has hit popular


culture in the way that many few politicians do. Charm, gusto,


bravery, no worries about being embarrassed. All the things that you


don't like about being a politician. We have run out of time. You can get


it on social media. Jo Coburn will be back


with the Daily Politics tomorrow And I'll be back here next


Sunday at the same time. Remember if it's Sunday,


it's the Sunday Politics. Everyone's living these


amazing lives, You're like a...


Different person? Delve deeper.


Ordinary Lives continues... They have something on me


that I can actually remember. They have something on me


that I can actually remember. The final chapter between


Gibson and Spector.


Andrew Neil and Richard Moss are joined by minister of state for international development Rory Stewart, shadow secretary of state for defence Nia Griffith and Paul Nuttall MEP. Political panellists include The Sun's Tom Newton Dunn, The Guardian's Polly Toynbee and The Spectator's Toby Young.

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