19/02/2012 Sunday Politics North West

And in the North West: It's a �50 billion project which is

quietly transforming large parts of the region. We open the doors on

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1716 seconds

Hello, I'm Arif Ansari. In the next 20 minutes:

It's a �50 billion scheme reshaping the region, but you've probably

never heard of it. We'll be giving you a bird's eye view of the Ocean

Gateway. First, let me introduce this week's

MPs. Luciana Berger is the Labour MP for Liverpool Wavertree. And

David Mowat is the Conservative MP for Warrington South. It has been

half term so you have been away from Parliament. An opportunity to

get some work done. What have you been up to, David? Well, I have

been in Warrington all week which is different to normal. I have been

working mostly on two issues. We have a big landfill that has

applied for an extension and I am working with residents around that.

I also got the chance to go watch the football. Luciana, what have

you been up to? More time in the constituency is always welcome. I

have been talking to a lot of local businesses about issues they are

facing at the moment. Also spent a couple of days with RAF. Merseyside

has the highest proportion of people joining the Armed Forces and

I thought it was important as a new MP to learn that more about what

our Armed Forces are actually doing. I went down to it and Defence

Academy. It was very interesting. We'll stop it there for a moment

because this week we're having a look at one of the boldest and most

far-reaching plans for the development of the North West. It's

called Ocean Gateway, is being driven by the developer Peel

Holdings and it's already transforming a large part of this

region. It starts at the mouth of the River

Mersey and extends all the way down the Manchester Ship Canal, ending

in the centre of Manchester itself. Ocean Gateway is a strategy to

deliver 50 projects over 50 years, and, not surprisingly, transport is

key. The docks at Liverpool and

Birkenhead will be enhanced, ports will be developed at Warrington and

Salford. And Barton Aerodrome will be extended. Peel's also planning a

number of renewable energy projects. They include a windfarm in Frodsham

and biomass powerplants at Ince in Cheshire and Trafford. But the

overall theme is regeneration. We are broadcasting from one of the

completed projects - Media City. Much larger is the creation of

Liverpool Waters and Wirral Waters - two massive regeneration schemes

in their own right which would create homes, offices and leisure

along the banks of the Mersey. So, what's the background to all this?

I've been taking a closer look at Peel. Ambitious, pushy and with the

land to make its ambitions come true. Peel are one of the most

impressive companies on the whole of the property scene in Great

Britain. They have developed the Mersey Docks, everything at Salford

Quays, the Trafford Centre, the airport. They are transformational,

but also extremely ruthless in the pursuit of their own goals.

scale of this development is so vast that there is only one way to

the it properly - and that is by air. The Gormley statues on Crosby

Beach get a cast iron view of the Mersey. Peel wants to develop a

regional super port and regenerate both sides of the river. We are now

flying over Birkenhead. This is going to be redeveloped as we all

waters. On the other side, the plan is to develop Liverpool waters.

From here, you can see the huge scale of the project, and remember,

this is only the start of the future Ocean Gateway. For

Birkenhead, it's an opportunity to catch up, and Wirral Waters already

has planning permission. As you can see, we are fairly desolate at the

moment, so anything that happens he would almost be seen as a bonus

will look different? Radically. It will give people over in Liverpool

the same sort of pleasant iconic view that people from Birkenhead

now have. One of the best views is reserved for customers at Woodside

Ferry Terminal. There the cafe owner is excited at the potential

business opportunity. You get on the boat and look back and the

skyline is near enough the same as it was five or ten years ago. I

think people lack a bit of confidence over here to think,

there is a big city, let's be part of what is going on. The ambition

is already reflected in Liverpool. Liverpool Waters would also

regenerate miles of derelict dockland in another multi-billion

pound plan. Some fear development could cost the city its

international status as a UNESCO World Heritage Site. But that won't

stop Peel. We wanted to ask the regeneration organisation, the

Mersey Partnership, for their views. They dropped out after speaking to

Peel. A revealing example of the company's influence. Peel's

fortunes run along 39 miles of the Manchester Ship Canal. Peel's owner

John Whittaker has owned it outright since 1993. And it's led

to major developments such as Media City at Salford Quays. Cheshire

West and Chester Council is very supportive of the Ocean Gateway.

But the leader has already dealt with Peel, and says you've got to

ensure they look beyond the bottom line. They make good profit margins

on development and they say they cannot do less than that. That is

where the robust discussions take place during the planning process.

Unless they engage with their communities in a way that is more

positive than they have done in the past, in the future they will not

get much development. Frodsham is a case in point. Peel is determined

to build giant wind turbines here. So what do campaigners make of

their adversary? I quite like Peel for their energy, the fact that

they do things and get on with things, the fact they don't just

sit on their land banks and make percentages. I wish they would just

Paul in their horns a bit and listen a bit because there are a

number of projects around the north-west which are really good

projects which they spoil by just pushing it too far. Peel is

certainly pushing this one. The plan was knocked back by the

council and the company's appealing. Peel have never lost a planning

battle or a bid battle when they had been up against either another

council or another authority. They always win. The voyage across the

Ocean Gateway ends in Manchester, but won't be completed for 50 years.

It's an extraordinary vision which binds Peels fortunes and the

region's ever tighter. Well, I'm joined now by one of Peel's

directors, Neil Lees. Thank you for coming in. We have had a look there

at the plans for the Ocean Gateway, a hugely ambitious. What is the

motivation behind it? Why does Peel want to deliver this project?

is an indigenous north-west company, it has been around since the early

1970s. It has developed primarily, as you saw, this area. We believe

in the north-west. The project includes 50 schemes across the

North West, from the city of Manchester to Liverpool. We believe

the north-west deserves that growth and those jobs. And you feel you

can make a lot of money out of it. We are a developer, we expect to

turn a profit on a development. That is a good thing, obviously,

making money. But it was curious listening to the leader of Cheshire

West in his clip, he said if it was left to you, it would all be about

profit. He has to keep wishing you to deliver things for the community.

I think there is always a balance between what a local authority will

want and desire from a development and what an organisation can

actually deliver. There is the counter argument that actually

making a development unprofitable, unsustainable, will actually not

generate the development in the first place. I don't think we as an

organisation would be isolated in that instance. Indeed, he was

talking about developers in general, I think. What about when you see

the criticisms from some of the group's way you have run up against

them. They clearly have a feeling you are not listening enough to

their views, you are steamrollering through. I think development

planning touches people's lives for a very long time. Projects of this

nature can be five years in the gestation. We take consultation

very seriously and we consult as fully as we can do. It is not

always easy for people to understand and accept change when

it affects them locally. consult, but you compromise? We do

compromise, absolutely. I don't think you can generalise as much as

perhaps the film suggests. What about this curious business that we

have, this interview with the Mersey Partnership and then saying

that Peel is not terribly keen and suddenly disappears, what happened

there? Well, actually that is not correct. We became aware, we

consulted with them, and as far as we were concerned we made it clear

that they are an independent organisation and they can do as is

appropriate for them. We are a supporter of the Mersey Partnership

and we participate in some of their initiatives. The Super port

initiative is a fantastic scheme to bring trade to then north-west.

you perhaps make organisations like the Mersey Partnership a bit

nervous because of how influential you are as the company? I think we

are an organisation that has shown we can deliver complex projects.

That sometimes means we have to be persistent, we have to be

determined, but we are doing that because we need to demonstrate to

the partners, our stakeholders, politicians, local authorities,

funding partners, that we are a credible will delivery agent.

Interesting plans for port Warrington, are you excited? Let me

say first of all I completely support this entire scheme. I think

it is brilliant for the wider north-west. Our country is far too

South East and London focused. These schemes will bring private

infrastructure to the north-west. It is good news all round. In

particular, we are no looking -- we are looking forward to welcoming

port Warrington. I know we are working with your guys on one issue,

but you will be putting more stuff up the ship canal. We have got

swing bridges which, every time this wing, can cause up to one hour

of destruction. Unfortunately, since the last on the canal was

used a lot, Warrington has grown up and there is a lot more traffic. We

are keen for that to be managed well. The port masterplan process

was an extensive consultation. That was looking forward 20 years, to

generate �500 million worth of investment, 1,000 jobs. We

recognise through this process that there were four or five points that

came out around the coastal reserve, around additional traffic at the

Port of Liverpool, environmental issues, as well as this particular

issue. It will be our intention to consult locally and get these

issues aired. Let us see what Luciana things. There is an issue

about Liverpool waterfront and whether it might used -- lose its

World Heritage status, what is your view on that? Yes, concerns have

been raised and Ocean Gateway has responded to them, they have

reduced building heights. I am very supportive because it is going to

bring billions of pounds' worth of investment into an area that

desperately needs it. I am very excited about it, particularly at a

time when unemployment is such an issue as in the 0. Thank you very

much for coming in today. Now, it is time to take a look at the

week's political news. Wirral Borough Council Labour

leader Steve Foulkes has been forced out after a vote of no

confidence. It comes after a council scandal over financial

abuse of vulnerable people in local authority care. He's been replaced

by the leader of the Conservative group, Jeff Green.

More grim news on the jobs front. The number of people looking for

work in the region has gone up by 26,000 in the past three months.

One in 11 is now unemployed - Connor Ryan's one of them. I am a

22-year-old, I live with my parents, I cannot provide former self. I

want to work. Manchester Central MP Tony Lloyd's

formally thrown his hat in the ring for the Greater Manchester Police

Commissioner job. If he wins the election, being held in November,

he'll have to stand down from his parliamentary seat.

And Manchester Airports Group is looking for a major new private

investor to boost its chances of taking over Stansted or Edinburgh

Airport. The group, owned by the ten Greater Manchester Councils,

already runs airports in East Midlands, Bournemouth and

Now, this week we have a special guest because we're joined by the

Leader of the Labour Party Ed Miliband. We have been talking

about rent -- regeneration of the north-west. One of the biggest

criticisms laboured -- levelled at the last Labour government was too

many jobs generated in the public sector rather than the private. Do

you accept that? I don't, actually. Because if you look at what we were

doing with Regional Development Agencies, which had been abolished,

sadly, by this government, it was precisely about this issue. I

welcome developments such as the Peel development which will bring

much-needed jobs, but they are being cut in the job sector and not

being replaced at the same pace in the private sector. That speaks to

the fact that public sector and private sector jobs go hand in hand,

rather than being opposite or contradictory. Would you be able to

create more private sector jobs, do you think? This time, definitely.

We have a government that is cutting and such a pace that there

is not the kind of demand in the economy at the moment that is

required for the private sector to be creating the jobs that we need

to replace public sector jobs. That is the whole balance issue that the

government is not getting right. That is why we say it is too far

and too fast. You saw earlier about youth unemployment. I said we tax

the bankers bonuses and use that money to create jobs. They are

being taxed all kinds of things. is a Danish Kaneria youth

unemployment has doubled in this region in the last year. -- it is a

scandal. Speaking of the bankers, the criticism was that Labour is

very focused on the City of London rather than regional growth. I am

just wondering, in retrospect, should there have been more done to

boost the private sector? I said our economy became too reliant on

the City of London, that is true. We must make efforts to have job

growth outside London. But getting rid of things like Regional

Development Agencies, cutting too far and too fast, leaving young

people out of work and creating a lost generation, that is absolutely

not what we need. We need action to get those young people back into

work. That is not just invention in -- investment in them, it is

investment in our future. What I would like the Chancellor to do is

take proper action on youth unemployment, pick up on some other

things we were doing in government, and give some of those people hope.

Can I ask you about the Peel thing? How much do you think this is about

a private company like Peel saying we're going to do something like

that? What can the government actually do? You have to work

together, you have to work local organisations and councils working

together with the private sector to make things happen. The whole media

city we are sitting in at the moment is public and private

working together. We need a banking sector that is properly serving the

needs of industry. That is key. Miliband, thank you for coming in.

David, we have seen it problems with these unemployment figures

coming in again. What can we do? There is no doubt the unemployment

figures are disappointing, particularly amongst young people.

We need to redress that, and we are. This region's unemployment is a

0.4%, the National rate is a 0.3%. -- eight-point 4%, the national

rate is 8.3%. We do need to fix the imbalance, and schemes such as this

partnership will. Are they doing enough, Luciana? No, they are not.

In my constituency, unemployment is 11.2%. There is long-term

structural unemployment there, isn't there? But the growth in

unemployment is massive. This is the highest rate in 17 years. I

have had people coming to visit me every week absolutely desperate to

work. They want to work and the vacancy is just are not available.

The private sector is not able to keep up pace with the public sector

cuts because the demand is an air. That is why Labour is calling for

things like a cut to VAT so we could instantly put �450 into the

pocket of every family in the country so we can boost demand and