18/11/2012 Sunday Politics North West


18/11/2012

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In the North West: Big budgets and power over policing.

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But with few votes and deadlines looming, are our new commissioners

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Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2391 seconds

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Coming up in the North West: Big budgets and power over policing.

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But with few votes and deadlines looming, are our new commissioners

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in for a dog's life? They all have Rostand, no support. It will be

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extremely difficult to have any impact this first time around.

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You have stuck with us through weeks of campaigning, all the

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excitement and in the end just 15% of you voted. Or, to put it another

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way, the vast majority of you decided not to. But the Police and

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Crime Commissioners do matter. And today we have one here. The former

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Labour MP Jane Kennedy is Merseyside's new commissioner.

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Graham Evans is the Conservative MP for Weaver Vale in Cheshire and a

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former Special Constable. And Dr Robert Ford is an expert on voting,

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based at Manchester University. am very proud to be working with

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Merseyside Police and the communities of Merseyside. Are you

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convinced the policy was still right? I am. Within three years, I

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think the public will agree. Next time around, I think the turnout

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will be significantly higher. key question for us will be why the

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public responded with a massive yawn of indifference.

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So they have got a lot of power and a big budget. But not many people

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voted for them. There are six new police commissioners in the region.

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For the Conservatives, Richard Rhodes won in Cumbria and John

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Dwyer in Cheshire. And for Labour there were successes for Alan

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Charles in Derbyshire, Clive Grunshaw in Lancashire, Tony Lloyd

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in Greater Manchester and Jane Kennedy on Merseyside. But why did

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so few of us vote? Our reporter spent a quiet day at one polling

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station trying to find out. The signs were out. And the doors

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were open. There was just one thing missing from this election. The

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electorate. MUSIC. Walk on by.

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I think it is a force. I will not be voting. I am going to the shops.

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I'll always fought in general elections and local elections, but

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not for this. Almost a year ago, one of the most shocking crimes in

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the region happened on Salford's streets when Anuj Bidve was

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murdered. This polling station has a short walk from where that crime

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took place. You would think policing would be a big issue in

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this area. The Poles have been open for six hours and the has seen a

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grand total of 25 people through those doors. And apparently this is

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one of the busier polling stations. In fact, across Greater Manchester,

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turnout was just 13.9%. In Merseyside, it was below 13.

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Cheshire and Derbyshire both managed to muster a 14% turnout.

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And there wasn't much more interest further north, as 15.5% of people

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in Lancashire voted. Cumbria was the highest in the region at 16.4%,

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with nearly one in four voters in the South Lakes going to the polls.

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It is in November, there are no other elections happening. We need

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to set this against a background that we have never had a democratic

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voice in policing before. There should have been a candidate

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booklet going through each door. I got one because I requested one

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online. But people should have got one by right. That will have

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affected the turnout. And had no legs -- no idea this existed. I

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don't know any of the candidates. am floating because I think this is

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important. Why did I thought? Solemn duty, I suppose. I think a

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15% turnout is unfortunate, but the job is the job. We have to move on

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now. We have had the election. Where more than eight out of 10

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people eligible to vote didn't, at least some were showing an interest

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in what was going on. This low turnout was effectively engineered

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by the coalition. When the help this election in November and the

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Government did not explain the role properly. And the ballot paper was

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a new method of floating. People -- they were warned it would be a low

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turnout. We anticipated it during the campaign. A lot of people don't

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agree with the policy. Elected commissioners like myself have a

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real job to take people with us to demonstrate that we're going to do

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a good job and the fact that we're here is now a fit to complete and

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we have to do the best that we can. Do you feel undermined by the lack

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of mandate? I don't. The people who should be embarrassed are Theresa

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May and David Cameron, whose flagship policy Dom Mark I

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understand it is not your embarrassment. Do you feel

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undermined because you have a low mandate? I don't. I put myself

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forward knowing that this was going to be a difficult election to fight

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with a role that the public either don't understand our don't like to,

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very suspicious of party politicians carrying out this role,

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so I went in for a writ -- fully aware of that. I wanted Merseyside

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have the best person for the job. I believe that have a lot to offer

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with my experience. It is in doing that job going forward that I'll to

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demonstrate that they chose wisely on Merseyside. What went wrong?

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paper was produced saying that the turnout should be about 18%.

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November elections would mean 5% less. No party election broadcasts.

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No leaflets. 5% for each of those. It was all was light and natural

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experiment when you have elections the you don't tell anyone about.

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The figure was only slightly lower than the predictions. This was

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predictable and avoidable. The government didn't take that actions

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they were told to take. It is important to remember that we don't

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have any money. It would have cost the taxpayer a lot of money to do

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some of the things you are alluding to. You clearly have some money

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because you have run these elections and the first place.

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was not right for the Government to throw millions of pounds at this

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election. Why hold that? You have now embraced the policy of lawyer

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have criticised it. In five years' time, I believe the public will

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engage. They have not engage this time. What you think when wrong?

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November election, no direct mail involved because of the cost and

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there was a problem getting the message across. The Government

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wanted independent candidates to come forward. Independent

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candidates cannot afford to campaigned in the way that you can

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if you have a party machine behind you. 12 independent police and

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crime commissioners have been elected. Isn't that partly because

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turnout was rather low, to put it mildly? Yes. There was a very low

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bar to clear. �5,000 of their own money. Campaigns run by volunteers.

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To say that that was a good way of running things does not seem right

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to me. If you're going to hold democratic elections, you must

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engage the public. We know that there are simple things to which

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the public response. One of the things was holding the elections

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concurrently with local elections would not have cost a penny. The

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decision to hold them by themselves in November seems to me to be

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stupid it as many voters didn't realise there was a poll on. Loads

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of people did not know what these elections were about. There was a

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by-election in Manchester where there was an 18% turn up. This is a

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new policy and it is always difficult to get that point across

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to people. In four years, when they have a reputation and the public

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have found that the good job that all PCC's will do, I think the

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turn-up will increase. The jury is out. The conduct of the PCCs will

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be very important. There are huge challenges ahead. Most importantly,

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they're going through a period of the draconian cuts. Local

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authorities are losing �200 million from the parts of the budget they

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have been using to help reduce crime and offending. It is very

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difficult. It will depend on how we can work through the next three-

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and-a-half years. While we are on the subject of turnout, a record

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was set in this week. But again not in a good way. Labour's Lucy Powell

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was elected MP for Manchester Central in a by-election after Tony

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Lloyd stood down to become police commissioner. It never gets a high

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turnout but 18% was the lowest for any parliamentary by-election since

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the Second World War. The time of year is difficult. Some

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people thought this was just the police commissioner election. It

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was a vote of all the other parties which has been hugely depressed

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this evening, not for Labour. is not strictly accurate. 15% of

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Labour voters did not show up. It is not a record you want to have,

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to be their MP elected with the lowest turnout ever. Not very

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intensive campaigning by anybody. Labour were very confident. They

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were not expending a lot of resources to get anybody out to

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vote. None of the other parties felt they could win him. If you

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have a very safe seat with the one competing very hard, then the

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voters will struck in differently. They know the result. Compare that

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with Corby which changed hands and there was a 45% turn out.

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Is it just one of those things that we have say seats and that is that?

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Should we be worried? Safe seats are something we talk about in

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politics, but in truth we shouldn't take any seat for granted. We

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shouldn't take falters for granted. We have to work with the resources

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we have got. I know that we did use all the resources we had available.

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In Merseyside, some of our volunteers went to help there.

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will say this does not matter? Course it matters. Tony Lloyd was a

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good MP and I think his replacement will be good. We want to engage

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with constituents as much as possible. The time of year was not

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great. The weather was not great. So, not a huge mandate, but this

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Thursday the new xommissioners will officially get to work. And they

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have got a deadline of just 10 weeks to try to make their mark.

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This report is on the winners and the job.

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Here at the Cheshire count, it is naturally a day of celebration for

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the elected candidate. But for all the new PCCs it is now that the

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hard work really begins. That's because in barely two and a half

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months time, they will have to finalise their first budget a issue

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their first policing plan. And if that sounds like a challenge, that

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is because quite simply it will be. They have got about 10 weeks to

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work on this. They will have no staff in place, no support, they

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will be totally reliant on what the police forces tell them. It is

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going to be extremely difficult for anybody to make any real difference

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this first time round. situation could have been different

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had the Government decided to hold elections in the spring. That way,

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PCCs would've had a had a full year to decide on their budget. As a

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former Assistant Chief Constable with Cheshire Constabulary,

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Cheshire's new PCC John Dwyer certainly has all the credentials

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to make an impact in his new role. He is under no illusions. It is a

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tough task. The timescales as you rightly say are very tight, but I

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can do it. I've got a good team behind me who can help me to do

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that. I've anticipated this to be about a 60 hours a week job. It is

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not a job to be played at, it is not a job to be done part-time, and

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I am prepared to roll my sleeves up and get on with the task in hand.

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Among the commissioners' tasks will be empowering people into having a

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say on how crime is tackled in their area. Statistically, Cumbria

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is among the region's safest places to live. But the force's resources

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must be spread thinly across a huge rural area. I am conscious that

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people are suspicious of politicians making promises and not

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delivering. I will deliver on my promises. The new commissioner's

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take on their roles amid troubled times. In summer, officers from

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across the region took part in national protest at cuts to front

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line policing. Addressing this will be a key priority, says Greater

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Manchester's PCC. We have got to make sure there is a strategy set

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forward that can take Greater Manchester Police forward, despite

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the present round of cuts. But we will be taking the case about 20%

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cuts back to central government and saying what they are doing is

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reckless. Mr Lloyd will be working closely with Chief Constable Sir

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Peter Fahy. His background as a long-serving Labour MP would seem

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to fit well with Sir Peter's call that the PCC can have an influence

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on the national stage, and join the force in some difficult discussions

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with ministers. But he too admits there is much to be done. Certainly

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number one is the budget and some really difficult decisions over the

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next few years. We have got to lose 300 officers this year, next year

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and the year after. I think second is then the threat of organised

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crime, and third is probably the number of difficult investigations

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we have got. Despite the low turnout, the Prime Minister David

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Cameron has claimed the public will become more interested when PCCs

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begin their work. Officially, their job starts on Thursday.

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It sounds as though you're in for a tough job? I thought that when I

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put myself forward. The budget is quite clearly at the core of this.

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I want the opportunity to speak to the Home Secretary to say that if

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there is another round of cuts coming in December, it is important

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she takes time to hear what the elected representatives of the

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police force areas have to say about those budgets. I don't want

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another 600 police officers being cut from this Budget without time

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for me to make representations about the impact of VAT. Part of

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your job is to work out how the police can be more efficient?

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will work with the chief constable to do that. They have lost �60

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million from the budget already and have been doing a fantastic job.

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They had been able to maintain policing services and keep crime

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rates are relatively down. What we don't want is to see that good work

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being undermined by further swingeing cuts that will damage of

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the good work they have bumf will start the PCC's are replacing an

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elected police authorities, totally anonymous. If you look at

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Hillsborough, if the had a PCC in place in Merseyside Orange

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Sheffield at the time, what those travesties -- tragedies have

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happened? I would like to think that PCC's will make a difference.

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In four years' time, the general public will turn out in greater

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numbers. You think policing will improve despite the cuts? Each

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authority is different. Chief constables have had it good for

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many years when the money was coming in. The true test of

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leadership for chief constables and the police and crime commissioners

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is to cope with these challenging times. Did the candidates who were

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former police officers do well? lot of them stood as independents.

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The seemed to do well. It was interesting because in the polling

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ahead of the election, people said they did not want politics in

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policing. Then very often at the polls they will plump for the party

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label because they know what that stands for. Those who did turn up

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really seem to have actually gone with that message and look for the

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person with the most experience in policing, even if they have no

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political experience at all. It is usually close in Lancashire between

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the Conservatives and Labour. Perhaps they made a tactical

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mistake in choosing someone without a policing background? Perhaps.

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When the public were offered people with a policing background, they

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tended to do quite well. I had the experience of working with the

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police. I think people toes be for that reason. There are risks

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involved with former police officers doing the role. They will

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have to learn to leave their own experience behind. They have to

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work with policing as it has changed. They will have to learn

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some politics as well. This is a strategic role, it is not the day-

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to-day running of the police. It is up to the police and crime

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commissioner us to set the strategy. Time for the rest of the week's

:02:56.:03:03.

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