16/12/2012 Sunday Politics North West

Hand in the north-west, picking up the pieces. The counsel cuts that

mean we could all be doing much more of this. How much did you

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2147 seconds

Coming up in the north-west. Picking up the pieces. Counsel cuts

that mean we could all be doing much more of this. Maybe it should

be fifty-fifty, there is a role for volunteers but there is also a

responsibility for the local council.

And to discuss that and all the other subject, we are joined by 20

Lloyds the former Labour MP for Manchester Central and now Greater

Manchester Police Commissioner and Mark Hunter the Liberal Democrat MP

for Cheadle. -- Tony Lloyd. Tony, Didier this week we have had

announcements on jobs particularly for BAE Systems at four Airbus,

does it look like we're turning the corner in terms of the jobs market

came at I hope so. The reality is that the economic model for the

future still does not look good. The Chancellor is on the wrong

track. We must recognise that because if we want to see doormat

even if jobs are being created? I want to see jobs created, but if we

want to get rid of long-term unemployment and that has gone up

over the last few years, we must see that come down.

Not only has the senses are shown that, Mark, but it has shown there

is a serious lack of altercations among some people. In some parts of

the region, yes, it is not true in parts of the world that I represent.

20 is being a charitable, the latest figures put the biggest

quarterly fall that we have seen in over a decade. I would certainly

hesitate to say that be have turned the corner, but there are signs to

say that things are improving in the economy, we have cut the

deficit by 25% and unemployment is down, inflation is moving in that

direction. It has been called the -- for gas,

but it has been moving pretty slowly after an 18 month pause, the

Energy Secretary STV all -- said that shale gas kicks oration or

fracking can resume in Lancashire. -- shale gas exploration.

The gas company Cuadrilla said that it could supply one-quarter of the

UK's gas needs from one Kisha's untapped resources, creating almost

2,000 jobs locally. It has test site in various areas in the county.

How does it work? A whole is drilled thousands of metres below

the surface. Tiny explosions then shatter the rock and water and sand

and chemicals are injected into the rock to keep the cracks open,

alarming shale gas to float. Last April there was a tremor measuring

2.3 on the Richter scale and then a second end-May nesting 1.5.

Fracking was suspended. The report found that fracking was the likely

cause. Do we will hear from the Energy

Secretary, but first there Lancashire political reporter

assesses the reaction. A turning point for UK energy or

arrest to the residents of Lancashire?

Fracking has been on hold for 18 months after the reserve tremors.

But after Ed Davey gave the go- ahead to continue their remains

concerned that questions. A Health and Safety at community and not

just for Lancashire but the whole country, has been put at stake --

has been put at stake for a quick buck. I want to make sure that my

residents and constituents have the opportunity to put forward

questions and to get answers. Government's new safety measures

include assessing geological faults and the rest of seismic activity,

they plan to deal with those risks spread to introduce a traffic light

warning system. Cuadrilla say there will not be a repeat of last year's

feelings to a that the coverage's board about the tremors. We have

done a lot of beating up with the doublet and having conversations

with them and a listing to their concerns. -- a lot of meeting up

with the public. We are being as open and transparent as we can.

There are those who believe that fracking will bring long-term

benefits to the region's workforce. It is an important opportunity to

develop engineering knowledge and expertise that will potentially

form the basis of an industry for the north-west in the future.

Cuadrilla will now have to reapply for permission from the local

County Council to resume drilling. The council say they want to see an

environmental assessment before this is approved.

I ask the Energy Secretary how worried he had been by last year's

earth tremors. We have real concerns and we shared

these concerns with local people and that is why it be spent such a

long time getting the Independent reports had expert advice, and

looking at the evidence. We have at evidence from a range of people

from the loss society and Academy of Engineering and we have opened

up a consultation. We want to make sure we can reassure people that we

will detect seismic activity even at a very low level and stop

fracking should that occur. Some of this is not about whether

there is seismic activity or whether it is detected, it is

whether it is reported. Cuadrilla the about it at their staff did not

report it up the chain. We have concerns about what

happened and that Cuadrilla's team on the ground did not report this

to the board. We have demanded improvements in the governance

within the company. We have seen significant changes, and they will

now be independently audited. Cuadrilla will see this report and

we can see if they had made the changes necessary.

When would you expect fracking exploration to restart in

Lancashire? There is time yet, our decision enables Uzbekistan to go

back to the local County Council and to renew its planning

permission. -- will enable Cuadrilla to go back to the local

County Council. I believe that most people assume that we will see some

fracking started up in the middle of next year, perhaps later.

But we could see quite a rapid increase in the number of the site

being tested? That is likely in the near future, I think that some

people, the commentators, get carried away. Saying that there

will be a huge amount of drilling in Lancashire. The development will

be a lot slower than that. We're in the exploratory stage. The critical

thing for me is to ensure that any drilling will, in a few years' time,

or repealed possibly commercial production and be safe and the

public can be assured. It also that any environmental issues can be

dealt with. We must make sure that we have a tough regime and that is

what we will do. Mark, quite a lot to people in

Lancashire who could be affected by this are quite disappointed by the

decision that has been made. think it is the right decision. He

has looked at the scientific evidence. There is no doubt there

are considerable suppliers of gas down there and we are a country

that is heavily dependent on gas imports. One of the things this

will do will help create jobs in the local area but importantly will

reduce our reliance on importing energy from other countries. That

will be a good thing. S Davies's approach is cautious. Let's make

sure that all the checks and balances are in place. Tony, should

be moved more quickly if there is the potential for a lot of new

jobs? We obviously want the jobs but I very much agree with mark on

this issue. We must take into account the possible environmental

consequences, it is quite right that this goes back to the County

Council. But this must be based on the evidence available. The

scientific evidence has been examined. That must be...

Why must we keep going backwards and forwards for various

permissions? Someone must make a decision. Politicians must do that

because they are elected by the public to safeguard the public

interest. Experts are being asked to provide expert advice that

politicians must weigh this in the balance. The cost and benefits and

come to a conclusion that takes into account the needs of the

minority as well as the majority. It cannot just be driven by those

who have a vested interest or those who are experts in the field.

There are people who have been saying that this could lead to a

big fall in the gas price but that is not true, is it? There is every

possibility that in the future it could help stabilise energy prices,

if we discover new forms of energy within our own country that must be

a help because as we said before we are importing so much at the moment.

But the European gas market, this would only make a time all

proportion of the European gas market so it will not have a big

impact on British prices. These are small steps in a relatively new

industry in the UK. That is why the approach that the Secretary of

State has outlined is the right one. Move slowly, be cautious and

providers much reassurance as we can. If there are issues then of

course we can stop and look at it again. Eric Ollerenshaw has

questioned the Government's strategy for Energy one thing if

they know precisely what we're doing rather than just going for a

piecemeal decisions here and one there. I would say that the

Government does know what it is doing. Clearly there is not any

sense in developing a strategy was to become increasingly dependent on

external energy suppliers. That is the case in many others European

countries who are importing huge quantities of energy from places

like Russia. We do not want to be in that club. We need to be moored

here, that is where renewables are so important. That is why this is

another area that has great potential but it must be looked at

with caution and we must make sure that everything is right. Tony, in

tears of caution, what about the environmental Harkin at about the

fact that lots of methane is going to be produced, which is a very bad

gas when it comes to climate change? That is true but if you

look at the range of alternatives in energy, we must have a security

future. We must make sure that the fires are lit in winter for all of

us. So that energy security his prime. The capacity to have one

quarter of a gas meter sorted out by this one process is enormous. If

it comes to fruition. We do not know if it will. Prices ought to

come down at least a little bit. Partly because of the amount of

fracking taking place in the United States. This is at good-news story

but the environmental consequences must be examined properly.

thing that will definitely be happening is the Government telling

her councils how much more they need to save in the latest round of

spending cuts. Some services will disappear but councils are also

looking to us, the public, to keep other services running.

From seaside to sports centres, an army of volunteers are helping to

keep services running across the north-west.

This is at the Pelican Centre in Tillsley, ten months ago it was

facing closure because of council spending cuts. The committee has

stepped in and it is mostly run by The Help of volunteers. It is hard

because everyone is trying to fight for the same funding or to reduce

costs he then there, it is competitive. But we have had a good

opening in the past ten months so so far we are doing very well. The

great aspect of volunteers is that they choose to be here so it brings

a different atmosphere. They want to be here and it is not money that

is bringing them here. Money is an issue for Wigan council, this

year's budget is �254 million, next year it must save �90 million.

Services like his library have also had to turn to volunteer to keep it

open. Most people think it is the older end that get the volunteers

but in our case we have 16 year olds still at school coming in, we

have a 75-year-old, myself I wanted to keep the library opened. What

else was I do? Do it yourself. Out of austerity has come a sense

of camaraderie, and perhaps important lessons for local

councils. It has been pointed out to me by very spot here groups that

they are running the services better than the councils. Was it

the case that councils were not particularly good at running these

services? Councils were good at running the services, what it was,

I think you do learn from other people when you have been running

services that we could do it better. The point we're trying to get all

for now is that we want to deliver a service, we want to deliver it as

well as it was before if not better. But with a limited budget.

This beach is one of Wirral's most important aspects. -- assets. It is

breathtaking with stunning views across the estuary. It is looked

after by volunteers, but others in the borough are claimed by the

council. The current budget is �264 million, next year this will be

reduced by 49 million. This could see beach cleaning scrapped. This

is just one beach in the borough, there are around 15 beaches

altogether Shia in Wirral and if they were cut back there would be

severe problems of litter. There is a role for volunteers but I also

think there is a responsibility for the council.

From whence they councils will be told how much they must save next

year. The Government insists the voluntary sector will not be left

to pick up the pieces. Voluntary groups have a lot to gain at the

moment. With the changes we have made if they can look at what they

can do, they can challenge councils to provide services. Councils

themselves should be working with voluntary groups to ensure they get

the best value for money. Over in Berwick, the councils could

not afford to run this gymnasiums are parents stepped in. Bury

Council has a current budget of �140 million. Next year they must

save �10 million, which will mean the public managing more facilities

like football pitches and allotments, why they will have to

close. There will be services that will death it would be

significantly reduced, some might stop altogether. We will hope to

mitigate those as much as possible but this is a difficult situation.

If the debt society is David Cameron's buzz word, for many of

the volunteers giving up their time this is nothing new. In this

climate it is becoming a vital part of keeping services going.

We are joined from London by Alex Thomson the chief executive of the

local Government think tank Localis. Will we see much more of what we

saw their? Was more request for volunteers to get on with the job?

We are. The local Government sector is facing 28% cuts over the current

spending review period and there is no reason to believe, I think, and

they think the sector of least, that there will not be more cuts to

come after that. A more difficult will life get for

our local councils? It will get pretty difficult. If the Government

takes the view as it does that you want to pretend large chunks of

public spending such as health and education and to a degree welfare,

then you must make cuts will not putting up taxes. He end up cutting

what is left very hard indeed. It is inevitable.

Why is the Government so willing to put so much pressure on local

Government? The first thing to say is that local Government

expenditure is something like 25% of all of the money that central

Government Spence, so the idea that will be are in economic

difficulties we can somehow make local authorities exempt from the

financial realities of life is frankly a fantasy. Local

governments like every other organisation, institution and

individual must live within its means. The fact is that they must

take a share of the responsibility in terms of looking to make savings.

I do not see anything wrong with volunteers helping out with council

services, we should celebrate it. The reason not to celebrate is

because they are not doing it because they want to but because

they have got to keep the services going. The reports did not indicate

that they were doing it because they had to, but people have

indicated that they were enjoying it. But the services would have

gone lost completely. I am not saying we should rely entirely on

volunteers but they certainly have a place in an organisation to get

involved, and in this region in the north-west, certainly in the parts

of the north-west that idealist, we are fortunate in having a large

army of volunteers who get involved in all sorts of activities across

society. They are not looking for a reward. That is a strength that not

a weakness. The Mayor of Liverpool, Joe

Anderson, said that the cuts threaten community cohesion. He is

what he had to say. If you look at the custody, they

are worse than they were in the 80s. They must recognise this and the

possibility of discontent taking place at whether that is

demonstrations like occupy Liverpool, occupy Manchester, that

sort of disquiet and discontent will take place at it is right for

me to highlight that. Dettori, is it right for him to drop about the

possibility of a summer of discontent?

Volunteers will lot plug the gaps that the council like Liverpool

council and Manchester Council are already facing. Some people will

even questioned whether cuts even had anything to do with the summer

of discontent. What do you think? The rights that took place, I do

not think they themselves were on the back of cuts but that is a

separate issue. There is a reality that if we do begin to do that

people services it is not just riots were things go wrong. So he

is wrong to say that? Were in councils in the north-west are

cutting because they have to, places like refuges for victims of

domestic violence, this might not be a riot but it means a woman

might be going home to be beaten or killed. That is serious. The almost

justified the words he uses in terms of Liverpool, of course he

does. These cuts are serious and stress the very heart of things

that we must be providing an volunteers cannot make up for these

services. The Government action is going too deep at making it too

difficult. I want to go back to Alex Thomson,

Mr Thompson, is there anything local councils can do about all of

this other than what we have already talked about?

Volunteers are part of the solution, but there are lots of things that

local authorities are doing to make the money they have stretch further.

There sharing services between themselves and with other parts of

the public sector. They're trading service. You're getting sponsorship

money, in Leeds City Council you have sponsored payslips. That is

the rule. The Government has encouraged them to set up pilot to

dock at community budgets. Bob Flynn we can see a better use of

public money in future. Alex Thomson, thank you.

Market back and finish with you, we have heard some council leaders say

that local Government will be nothing more than a provider of

adult social care. I do not think that is the case. I come from a

local authority back round and spent 18 years as a counsellor. I

understand why local services and imported, we all do. I do not think

this will be reduced to that level. Basic core public services must be

there for those to be done. Time for the rest of the week's

used so here is your news in 60 seconds.

1,500 UK jobs are no longer up in the air. The Prime Minister came to

Brotton to announce a deal for 100 Airbus A three twenties. 5,000

workers at BAE Systems in barrel blow release after the Government

announced a deal for a new audacious submarines. This will be

the foundation for growth in the area.

The Attorney-General has made of official application to the High

Court for a new inquest into the deaths of 96 people who died in the

Hillsborough disaster. He said there was a good case to quash the

original verdict of accidental death.

Chris in the red, Salford's rugby league team face uncertainty as the

council refused to offer more bail- outs.

Mayor Ian Stewart said that it was painful that he had to say not.

council cannot go alone to the clubs, particularly regrettable.

It was the town centre that was never finished, but finally

Skelmersdale is getting a �20 million revamp that will see

restaurants, shops and a new cinema. So that story their Abbots Salford

City Reds, that is a team going for over 100 years. Should the Council

have given them several hundred �1,000 more to continue? I have

been watching them since my dad took me at five years old, but this

is the position of Salford Council. I hope that the club can find new

orders because actually the identity of Salford is massively

improved by at club. We know it in football and rugby, so let's keep

Salford up there in the Premier League. Let's keep the Salford game.

It is looking shaky. It is a great asset to have professional football

or rugby attached to your town but at the end of the day as a previous