13/01/2013 Sunday Politics North West

And in the North West: Restructuring the NHS - how a 19th-

century humanitarian movement is helping one hospital through a 21st

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2547 seconds

I'm Arif Ansari. Coming up. Restructuring the NHS. The 19th

century organisation helping one hospital through a twentieth-

century cash crisis. I don't think what I am doing is morally right. I

think the country should provide this service like the way through.

This week I am joined by the Liberal Democrat MP for Hazel Grove,

Andrew Stonnall, and by the new Labour MP for Manchester Central,

Lucy Powell. How has it been enjoining the Commons? What is life

like. I am just trying to get used to the place. I am sure Andrew and

others would have some advice, how you can make an impact and what you

can do as an MP. I was there when you got elected. Politics is not

new to you, so does it feel quite different being an MP? In it is

different being down in Parliament. I am used to representing my

constituents and being a representative for Manchester, not

the cut and thrust of the houses of parliament. But I have had a couple

of Prime Minister's Questions so far. Andrew, what is your advice as

somebody with a lot of experience in Parliament? Concentrate on the

constituency, they are the people who sent you there and the people

who will decide whether you have done a good job. What happens in

Parliament is good and valuable, but the people who give you the job

or a back in the constituency. it been difficult for do not -- no

longer being a minister? It gives you more space to get on it to

helping constituents get what they need and what they want.

Having skived off for their Christmas we are back in time to

discuss the battle between the workers and the Sherpas. This week

the Government won the Commons vote to limit the increase in most

benefits to 1% for the next three years. Chris Rider has been to one

benefits hotspot where there are warnings of a possible impact.

Care be is one of the most deprived areas in the country with high

levels of unemployment and many claiming benefits. The credit union

here is worried that this 1% cap which in effect is a cut will make

matters worse. People are being asked to pay quite a great deal

towards solving the credit crisis. Last year the average weekly wage

increased to �470. The number of people claiming jobseeker's

allowance was down slightly, at just under 200,000. There was a 55%

rise in the number claiming for more than one year. The Government

has this view that people have chosen to live on benefits. In fact

it is not like that. A better approach would be for them to deal

with the barriers to people getting into employment. In the town centre,

some shoppers were critical of the Government's stance. Food prices

are going up. Electricity and gas. We do not get a lot of money, so

what we do get we have to budget with. Ba do not see why people on

benefits should have more than 1%, when at the public and private

sector are capped. This is a political argument about fairness.

Labour accuses the Government of targeting the most vulnerable

people in society. The Government says benefits should not be

increasing more than wages. Will the Secretary of State admit that

under these plans, Child poverty will go up at? I was approached by

a member of Manchester Constabulary, who said how can you justice by --

justify putting benefits up by 5.2% last year, when I have had a pay

freeze and a risk my life every day? I think benefits for those

people we really need to protect, that is why I have not supported it

tonight. We are seeing the language from

Chancellor Osborne of the shirker and the skiver. I think that is

appalling. That sort of hate thy neighbour thing but they are trying

to generate, I think that is evil. Some very strong language there at

the end. Did you support this decision with enthusiasm or

reluctantly? I think it is part of a much bigger package which sees as

clamping down on bankers plu's bonuses and on the rich, as well as

making sure that does in the middle get their tax rebates as well. If

we lived in a perfect world we would not need to make these

reductions, but we live in a world where the country's finances are in

disarray, and where it is vital to get that straightened out. In the

discussions which led to the benefit reform package, the Liberal

Democrats were clear but we wanted to see protection for the disabled

and those groups who are most vulnerable, but it's into a swipe

that those who are of working age should bear some of the cost on

this occasion. A what is the answer to that, Lucy? So 68% of people

being affected by this small increase or freezing of the

benefits are people in work, auditing maternity pay, so we feel

they are the wrong people to penalise. They are not people

sitting at home with the curtains shut. The people in work by getting

the income tax rebate. This April they will be getting a �600,000

rebate. The point that John is making, one of your fellow MPs, is

that the benefits you have given people would be income tax rebate

are being taken away by these changes to benefits? The maximum

change to welfare benefits, of course people are getting a cash

rise but it is limited to 1%. What they lose is the difference between

that and inflation. The IFS says that will be �165 per year. The tax

rebate is �600 per year, so people will be getting much more in the

tax rebate and they are losing in the welfare benefit if they are in

work. I raised the case this week, if somebody works part-time in a

supermarket, she does not earn enough to get the benefit of the

tax rebate. She earns less than �600 -- �60,000 per year. What the

Government are not telling you is that they have already lowered the

rate of benefit increase, because they changed the link from RPI to

CPI. People have already taken a hit on that. There are other

changes taking -- coming all ready with the universal credit coming in

April. Constituent of mine who earns less than �600 per year it

will be over �100 per week but worse off. A even if we bought the

fairness argument by side, in terms of popularity this is a popular

move by the Government, isn't it? To be few present it in those terms,

and you are not being clear with people about the measures they are

hitting people with, and at the same time we have seen the Liberal

Democrats and the Tories give a tax break to some of the wealthiest in

society by reducing the highest rate of income tax from 50p to 45p.

Does that -- does Labour except that when they are -- were in

Government they should have done more to reform the benefit system?

The tax credit system in that some sense is subsidising low pay, which

is why I support a living wage. We should be putting pressure on the

private sector through different means to pay people a higher wage,

so that they do not need their salaries being subsidised by the

taxpayer. We should live in a world where but does not need happen.

Andrew, is there a danger that if people who are working see their

salaries go down, suddenly the support for this move will

disappear? I do not think so. It is about making sure we have a fair

system which always make sure that work pays and make sure the most

vulnerable in society are protected. That is a difficult calculation,

but I believe we have got it right. This year the NHS will continue to

struggle to make savings at hospitals and trusts across the

region. Blackpool Victoria Hospital is one of the busiest in at the

North West with 80,000 visits a year to A&E alone. Stuart Pollitt

has been looking at one scheme helping them to save money.

1915. The Red Cross helps build a hospital in Blackpool. Almost one

century later, the charity is still involved in the town's hospital.

Today it is helping recovering pensioners like Joan, rather than

wind its soldiers. A hospital pays the Red Cross to take patients home

and help them settle in. They spend fewer nights on the ward, better

for patients and the trust's bank balance. It gives you peace of mind

that that patient is going home with an amazing team of people who

will do anything. Before, you what sort of just left

inside. These people are on the spot for you. The have formed

friendships. A have. They have become like friends, and it makes

me feel good because all my family are spread across the world.

For former RAF officer Ian is one of a Das -- dozens of volunteers

who help out. A I get a lot out of it. It is extremely well wrought --

it is extremely rewarding, but should the NHS should not be relied

on somebody like you? A day don't think what I am doing is morally

right. I think the country should provide

the sort of service like the way through. Are recognise also that

the Government -- country does not have lots of money, whatever the

relative benefits of this scheme for people like Joan, at it only

saves �200 per ounce steered -- �200,000 per year, which in turn is

a fraction of the �20 billion the NHS must find in inefficiencies

services by 2015. We have to save money. We have to

look at innovative ideas of being able to manage. I think it is

different -- difficult for everybody.

Give it is really busy. The amount of patients coming into hospital is

increasing. Cost is an issue. We have to do things most effectively,

which improves quality. It gives us more facilities to do other things

with. The Red Cross is usually associated

with appeals like this, but increasingly they help is needed

closer to home. There is a crisis in the health and social care

sector, and it is important that we get involved in solving the

problems that we are facing. I think the Red Cross is the big

society in some ways, as art volunteer organisations across the

country. J owner is certainly grateful for

their involvement -- Joan is great for.

By find that they are really wonderful. More precious than gold.

But latest report from the Audit Office says the NHS megabits

efficiency targets, but finding the money must be like finding the

Blackpool Tower on a misty day like this.

You know it is out there, but you do not know where.

Let us turn to Professor John Appleby from The King's Fund, he is

a leading campaigner on health reform.

Brady explained this to me. The Government always says that they

protected the health budget, so why is there so much financial pressure

on the NHS? The Government have given the NHS more money, the

trouble is it is just about enough to cover rising prices, so in real

terms it is flat and has been for the last two years. It is likely to

be just about enough to cover inflation for next year as well.

The NHS needs more money, because there are growing health needs. The

image as find it -- finds itself in a position of having to close the

gap between funding and what is needed. That is the �20 billion,

the value of the productivity gain the NHS needs to make.

We saw a but blackball hospital, which is saving �200,000 in that

scheme, but has to save �50 million by 2015. How on a do hospitals like

that go about doing that? We do a survey of the finance

directors of hospitals and other NHS organisations every three or

four months, and our latest survey suggests that about two-thirds are

pretty pessimistic about the finances in their local area. One

of the tactics the Government uses to put pressure on hospitals to be

more productive is to reduce the actual prices that hospitals can

charge local primary care trusts for their services.

Andrew, what is your answer up, bearing in mind Bear will not be

extra money available. We are putting extra money into the health

service, the problem is that there is a growing demand. As I ask a

question in Parliament this week on exactly that. Stepping Hill

hospital has had an 11% increase on A&E admissions in one year. The

question asked was about what can we do on the alcohol strategy to

make sure that fewer people go to A&E with alcohol-related problems.

To you see the answer as having fewer people going to hospital?

what we are doing about public health is making sure it is more

closely integrated with social care, is very important. Hospitals

themselves and the NHS as a whole still have work to do. I meet -- I

discussed with a pharmaceutical services be questions about drugs

supply and drug costs. The fact is that there is an almost limitless

amount you can spend on the health service if money was no object.

but have massively increased the NHS budget, get it is still under

pressure. By Ben any solutions here? By this Government had said

they would not do a top down reorganisation of the NHS, and they

have done that. The second think which Andrew are

needed to is the pressure on adults social care at the moment. It is

local councils that are principally responsible for providing those

services. We are seeing huge cuts to the budgets of local authorities

here in the North West, meaning that many of those services are

being cut. My husband is a A&E doctor and he sees the pressure

every day of all the people who really should not be bed blocking,

if you like, in many of our hospitals.

Do you accept the point that you see is making? Social care is a

pressure point for many authorities, so we are going to be restructuring

the way that is financed. I am no longer in a position to blurt out

bought that answer will be, but you will hear it in a month or two.

Lucy and I could have a interesting discussion about local Government

finance in the North West. The reality is an authority like

Manchester has �110 million sitting in the bank, and is slashing

services left right and centre. I don't believe that is a successful

-- sensible use of resources. Lucy Powell mentioned the NHS

reorganisation, has that made things better or worse?

We will have to wait and see. That is clearly one of the huge

pressures on the NHS, there is funding, the productivity challenge.

The fact we have frozen pay for NHS employees for the last two years

has helped. But that is not sustainable in the longer term. You

also have a major reorganisation, something like 18% of managers have

gone from the service. We have reorganisation of change is not

just locally but at national level. Day is a huge danger that people

take their eye off the ball here. The NHS has done quite well over

the last couple of years, if you look at waiting times, hospital

infection and so on. The NHS seems to beat staying within the targets

it has been said. The big fear is that this is the first couple of

years of a four-year spending review which is extremely tight. We

do not expect real time increases over they end --, I think the worry

is that... Professor John Appleby, thank you

very much. It is time for the rest of the week

News, Ian Haslam with 60 Seconds. Right on track - Network Rail

announced the biggest investment in our railways since Victorian times

- �1 billion over five years for new tracks, electrification, and

longer trains. Sign of the times - Oldham Council

says it can't afford school crossing patrols. Local businesses

are considering stepping in to fund them.

A Liverpool music promoter was fined for racially abusing the

Wavertree MP Luciana Berger. Philip Hayes, who founded The Picket,

swore at the MP and said he hated Jews.

A campaign's under way to prevent maternity services being withdrawn

at Furness General in Cumbria. Pregnant women could face a trip to

Lancaster or Whitehaven. And there's no such thing as a free

But in Blackpool 12,000 primary school pupils are bing offered a

The council is spending �700,000, and says no child should start the

We have heard quite a lot about rail investment, and we have been

told about the northern hub getting the go ahead before, but do you

welcome that? I would also welcome something the Government was doing

in the interests of my region, even though they are not my party.

much of a difference will it make? Its is part of a beget strategy to

bring more jobs and investment to the region. Transport

infrastructure is a critical part of getting people to the jobs there

are in the region, so it is very important.

One sort of changes do you want to see, Andrew? -- what sort of

changes do you want to see? I think this sooner we get to see whether

high-speed strategy is, the better. It will only be of use to ask when

it gets to Manchester. I want to see longer and more frequent

commuter trains on my route, so that my constituents do not have to