20/01/2013 Sunday Politics North West

In the North West, looking for a miracle. Bridges and city leaders

gather in Liverpool, asking bridgeable -- government to reduce

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2302 seconds

I am Arif Ansari. Coming up in the North West: Looking for a miracle.

Religious and city leaders gather in Liverpool and asked the

Government to reduce the cuts. order for society to be at ease

with itself, it has to be assured that these cuts, which are

necessary, also fair. Today we'll discuss the conference

and ask what the implications are for our largest cities, Liverpool

and Manchester. Joining me this week is the Labour MP for

Stalybridge and Hyde, Jonathan Reynolds, and the Conservative MP

for Chester, Stephen Mosley, former a deputy council leader. What do

you think of the idea of holding this conference in Liverpool?

think the council leaders should be spending their time trying to make

sure they then -- run their councils as Gaulle -- well as

possible. If they have got savings they can make locally, that is what

they should do first. To complain they are not getting enough money

from outside, I think they have got better priorities. Should be a

conference or not? I think it is a good idea. There has been a

reaction. They are taking too much from places that need the money and

not giving enough to places -- not taking enough from places which are

more affluent. That is what we will be discussing.

Happy new year to all our councils. It is January, and that means they

have started to announce proposals to cut back on services as budgets

are cut. This week, more than 1000 job cuts have been announced.

Manchester City Council says 830 full-time jobs will go. In Wigan,

200 posts are being cut. In Salford, it is 150 jobs. It is not just cuts

to services. Council tax is going up as well.

The protests have already begun. So wrinkles and libraries are in the

front line as Manchester aims to slash its budgets. We have seen the

council promise things before. We have learnt the hard way that we

can't trust the council's word on that. The only guarantee we could

have for a new some wrinkled materialising is that this stays

open until the new facility is ready. People will be paying more

for what is left, as Manchester plans to put up its council tax by

3.7%. That is to fund greater demands from Greater Manchester

Waste, transport, police and fire. We have frozen council tax for the

last three years. We have significant increases in waste

disposal and transport levies which we don't have control over. The

part of the increase that goes to our own services is actually

decreasing to 2.4%. There is argument over the figures. The

Government says Manchester's spending power will be down by 1.8%.

The council says it is 5.1%. �10 million from reserves is being used

to plug the gap. Half of the services and job losses will come

from the merging of adults are blue and children's been bad services.

There has been no decision yet on council tax. In Wigan, there is a

pay freeze for senior managers. Council tax will rise by 2%.

Northern areas seem to be losing badly, while many areas in the

South are not. That can't be right. The Government says it is a fair

Two years ago, so Richard Leese said he was surprised and shocked

by the extent of the cuts. This time he is not surprised, but says

he is still shocked. Stephen, you know when you were

deputy council leader, did he used to think to yourself, we have got

far too much money? No-one ever thinks that a! But you could be

situation and think, what more can we do? If you look at the situation

now, they have been budget reductions. National League has

been 1.7%, but Faddiley takes it down to the level it was in in 2008.

We're not going back to the 1930s here. We are only going back to

2008. But we are seeing deep cuts in the numbers of staff think --

staff in councils and the services they provide. My own counsel in

Cheshire is facing a 2.4% reduction compared with Liverpool, which is

facing 1.7%. Cheshire is seemed a bigger reduction than metropolitan

areas. Not necessarily over the three-year period. They are facing

reductions, and there are not facing the the situation we have

been told about in the Metropolitan areas. What has to happen is local

councils have to look up their own situation and do the best that they

can for their local area. Some councils are doing a good job of

improving services and making more efficient savings and I improving

services for residence. Some councils are not. I want to bring

Jonathan in here. The point that he is making is that councils can cope

with this if they restructure and become more efficient. They are

doing their best to try to mitigate, but my council has lost 1,200 staff

already. By the end of this Parliament, it will be a 30%

smaller budget in real terms than it was. That will fundamentally

affect them. You can see in research that councils will soon

run out of money for anything but essential services. No parks or

library sold anything that residents care about. But Stephen

was making the point that Cheshire West have fundamentally cut their

costs as well. If you look at Manchester, I was rich -- enduring

Sir Richard Leese this week, and I -- he was reluctant to saying that

the councils were doing at a bad job. He said they had restructured

and make the council more efficient. Of course, he wants to tell people

getting the best they can. But if you look at who has been hit hard

by this, it is the places in the last tears that were the most

efficient that try to do deliver services in a better way. They have

got nothing left to cut. What you say to voters who might say, we are

really shocked that council tax is going up? I think they understand

that they have services that they rely on and that are essential, and

once you get into how government finance works, which is not an easy

subject for many people, they understand that you have to

mitigate some of the Kurds in some ways. It compounds the situation.

If you do not raise council tax, you have to find the money

elsewhere. I think local councils should make their decisions. If

they want to increase council tax, they should be able to. If they

want to increase it by more than 2%, they have to have a referendum.

me put you up on that. Manchester is increasing it by 3.7%. There is

no referendum, and the reason for that is they say the precepts are

going up for things like waste and fire. Yes, it is because of the

with system works. I would be more draconian and say that if you are

increasing it by more than 2%. -- by more than 2%, you should have a

referendum. It should be put to the local people and we should see what

they want. Do they want a high cost high-spending council that

increases council tax? One of the most prominent

campaigners against the cuts is the male of Liverpool, Joe Anderson of

labour. On Friday, he and the Anglican Bishop of Liverpool hosted

delegations from five cities including Manchester to discuss the

impact. In a moment, I will be speaking to Mr Anderson, the first,

Stuart Pollitt has been asking whether he is right that Liverpool

The fires will burn Thatcher! They will burn the Tories! This is not a

time for denunciation, but for reconciliation.

That was the last time major spending cuts were imposed on

Liverpool. The result was all-out warfare. Margaret Thatcher and

Derek Hatton would gladly have to teacher the into the Mersey. This

time, there is a different response from the two political tribes.

Instead of warfare, they have actually made a deal.

It is called the City Deal, and it has seen the Government contribute

�75 million towards a �130 billion investment pot. The money will go

on a new enterprise zone, getting unemployed youngsters into work and

building 12 new schools. Wall of this will be open in

September. That is good going, isn't it? Is building site in

Everton will be the first school constructed from the belief. There

will be about 1000 and people. are looking forward to it, I'm

sure? Yes, they have helped to design it. We have a unique

relationship with the Government. We are saying, we will work with

you as much as we possibly can, because they want economic

regeneration in Liverpool, however, we will challenge you. It is a

difficult balance. Good morning, everyone. The balance for those in

charge of Pardew, the only residential rehabilitation centre

in Liverpool, is trying to treat addicts like these despite funding

cuts. Mark has been on heroin since the days of Militant. He is on

parole from a life sentence for robbery. The funding has got to be

there. It is a must. The Kurds were going to be 25%. We campaigned and

it became 12.5%. We are anxious and we are nervous and it might mean

that, depending on what happens, we may not be able to provide the

number of beds to Liverpool that we currently are. On Friday, the

Bishop of Liverpool was part of a summit looking at how cities can

tackle this funding crisis. We know that we have been living beyond our

means and we know that these cuts need happen. An order for society

to be at ease with itself, it has to be assured that these cuts,

which are necessary, also fair. According to Liverpool's Meyer, the

city's grant from central government will be more than halved

over the next few years. The Government argues that Liverpool

will still receive more than �900 per head better than most areas.

have got electrification of the railways, new bridges across the

Mersey, investment in the ports and around the docks, so that is a good

thing. We also potentially have lots of money invested in new

hospitals and the City Deal. So overall, more than -- almost �1

billion invested in the city. could in the money on one side, but

they're putting some into the city for buildings and for firms. A only

last week, we had David Cameron and the Mail sharing the stage, a bad

thing that can only be good thing. Hopefully by working together, that

will be what is best for the city in the long run. By embracing a

touch of consensus politics and becoming one of the first places to

embrace a City Deal and an elected mayor, Liverpool is taking a

radically different approach to three decades ago. They have one

other thing in their favour. This city is currently the fastest

growing economy at side of London. The challenge is to maintain that

statistics when we emerge from the period of spending cuts.

Before Friday's Conference, I spoke to the mayor of Liverpool and asked

him why he decided to hold the conference.

What we're trying to do is educate government as to the financial

predicament that councils are in. You don't think they know? I really

don't. I really believe that when David Cameron says that Liverpool

has got the same funding resources as it did last year, I think he

genuinely thinks that is the case. He has been badly advised. But is

it THAT when we talk about fairness, actually, it is the big cities like

Liverpool and Manchester that get lot of spending in the first case.

-- first place? They will be ones that will be targeted. I accept

that argument to a certain extent, but it is disproportionate.

Lanchester -- Manchester and Liverpool have large amount of

deprivation. And you still have more resources now? We accept that

there needs to be cut. But not to this extent. Our service is better

or worse now than they were two years ago? Services are worse. If

you look at the street in Liverpool, they are not as clean or as good.

Libraries will have to close. interesting that you say that,

because Sir Richard Leese was not quite so keen to say that services

were worse, and he actually talked about be more efficient with the

delivery of service and a more efficient Council. I did that when

it took over this council. We have reduced the cost of our council.

You cannot say that we have lost just under 1,600 staff within the

city and say that services are still the same. Of course they are

not. I will not try to bluff my way through that. I will be honest with

people. How much is the City Deal helping? The City Deal is feeding

him and it is helping us to build the 5,000 houses that I have

pledged to build. It all sounds pretty good. It does sound good,

but it still has to be said that we need the resources and support to

provide services for homeless people, for instance, and people

with alcohol dependency. So what I say to you is that base -- that is

for tomorrow. We have to try to deal with the problems we face

today. Thank you very much. Stephen, respond, if you would, to

that charge from Joe Anderson that the cuts are focused on the big

cities and they are unfair. disagree entirely. It is right that

we put more money into some of the urban areas like Liverpool because

they have more problems than places like Chester. Per head, liveable

gets twice as much as Chester, and that is right because of the

problems that they are in Liverpool. Because they have more money to

begin with, if you reduce it by a given percentage, it really is

slightly more in terms of money. lot more. In percentage terms, they

are doing better. You keep referring to this year, but this is

the third year of cuts. Over the last two years, there has been much

more could back. Next year, they will be cut back hard deg N.

Everybody in the country is having to make cutbacks. We have inherited

a difficult financial situation, and everyone to get the country

back on its feet, everybody has to tighten their belts a bit. It is up

to local leaders to take advantage of schemes like the City Deal to

make sure they are doing the best for their areas. I'm sure he is

doing that. If we give this away from Labour politicians, because

there will be a clash there and look at what be religious leaders

are saying, they were saying phrases like the rank injustice,

painful, and fed cuts. If they are saying that to you and the

Government, do you take notice? course we do. We take beds of the

Labour politicians as well. But we have to look at what people think

in local areas. In Merseyside? Ultimately, we are there for the

residents, and the residents will ultimately have their say. We had

two by-elections in Merseyside last week, both of which the Tories won.

People looked at what was being done and said, we were people who

will work hard for an area and improve things rather than complain.

It is not Labour politicians who are complaining because they want

money to spend themselves. It is the residence to bear the brunt of

this. Look at the counter- productive measures that are in

place. When you go back in social care, the demand still there and

people still need that service. They are being left without it.

What I don't understand is, if the Government wants to reduce the

deficit and if the vast amount of money is going to the big cities,

had a sick which use it without putting the money going to the big

cities? First of all, be a man coming from government is

disproportionately high than any of the spending area. You can listen

to Joe Anderson and other leaders they're saying that there will be

cuts. We had the worst-case scenario with their skirts. The

present round of cuts is a continuation of that. But most of

the money goes to big cities. If you are going to reduce the deficit

by a significant demand, that is where you will have to cut. Yes,

but for the deficit, it would be going back up. Local councils have

a huge impact on their local economies. Yes, they are expecting

and were expecting to have a difficult time, but what they have

been given from the to -- government is unfair. Is it is not

the drivers of the local economies, which is why the City Deal is such

a massive thing for Liverpool. �130 million to be invested in the

economy, 12 new schools being built. �800 million over 10 years invested

in local transport projects. These are huge sums of money that the

coalition government are put into cities like Liverpool. And indeed,

Greater Manchester? Absolutely. This is something we need as a

region and it is good to see it happening as a continuation of what

was happening under the last Labour government. But what the Government

can say is, yes, we're getting back on local government, but we are put

in all this extra investment in as well and we have to take that into

account. We can save money by operating in different ways of

people stay in the area rather than going back to Whitehall, which is a

good thing. What you have to bear in mind against that is the siege

draconian spending cuts to councils. I am in favour of the devolution of

power and spending and all the rest of it, but this is still a

difficult time for local governor. It is time now for the rest of this

week's News in 60 seconds. Prepare for take-off. Plans for the

UK's first airport city in Manchester have been approved. The

Enterprise Zone could create 11,000 jobs.

Five members of fact -- staff facing redundancy in Warrington put

themselves in the shop window before administrators peeled them

away. Fracking, the extraction of shale

gas from underground, could be heading inland from the Fylde coast.

An energy company is exploring sites in Salford and Ellesmere Port.

Students on the Isle of Man have been protesting against plans to

make them pay for tuition fees. is shocking that the Government

easy evening considering this. University education is still free,

and the Manx government has delayed a vote on introducing charges.

And the Lake District is the world's first national park to

become a designated fair trade zone because it supports farmers in the

developing world. More than 200 organisations there have the fair

So, Jonathan, we taught them about enterprise zones. Do you feel they

are working in the way they should be? This is all part of the

Government's drive to boost local economies? I have nothing against

them. But look at the problems we face in a local economies across

the country. The will not address those problems until you have the

Government committing to an economic plan for the whole country.

If they attract jobs, brilliant, but it will not solve our problems.

I'll be moving as quickly as you would like them to? No. But they

are moving in the right direction and getting set-up. We have

enterprise zones in Manchester and Liverpool, and they are starting to

attract investment and interest, and there are one of the tools that

we have to boost the economy. They're not the only tool, but one

of them. And one in Manchester Airport as well. Yes, as I say, we

would expect to have won if that is the Government's key strategy to

boost employment and get the economy going, but it will not be