28/04/2013 Sunday Politics North West

note - council tax is down, and so beasts have been in town, but will

it be enough to secure the big prize in this week's local elections?

Labour very much look like they are going to take Lancashire. It would

be a huge disappointment to them if they didn't.

On Thursday we have elections for three county councils. Lancashire is

one of the country's top political targets and this week we have the

three candidates who want to run it. The man in charge at the moment is

the Conservative leader, Geoff Driver. Alongside him, Labour leader

Jenny Mein, and we're also joined by Liberal Democrat Bill Winlow. Jenny,

listening to Professor Denver there, it is really yours to lose. I don't

think he is a Labour supporter, is he? We all know that the Tories are

letting Lancashire down. Families are over �800 worse off than they

were of before. Pensioner couples are �450 worse off than ever they

were before. What we need is to invest more money into Lancashire's

economy, and make good opportunities for our young people. Geoff Driver,

how do you prevent that national election pattern that is being

predicted there actually happening? There is only one poll, and that is

on the 2nd of May. We will be asking people to look at ABBA record and

look at what we have done. We have invested in the local economy. We

have predicted -- protected the front office cost and reduced

council tax by 2%. What about the Liberal Democrats? Nine seats at the

moment. I would expect to get about the same number of seats this time.

More on the elections shortly. first - union leaders in Knowsley

held a meeting this week calling for a campaign of civil disobedience

over welfare reform. They're asking people who are struggling to cope to

stop paying their rent. But should they, and could it work?

Radical acts of protest can lead to change. Just take a look inside the

People's history Museum in Manchester. In many examples

throughout history, the aim of these movements involved in civil

disobedience was to cause disruption. In Kirby, they want to

follow in this tradition. Here, and number of unions are calling for

civil disobedience and direct action against the government's welfare

reforms, starting with the under-occupancy rule with the

so-called bedroom tax. If enough people do it that way, they will

have to think about it. Is it worthwhile? Is it cost-effective?

Because lots of people out here are really, really struggling. Who could

forget the anti-poll tax campaign and the riots that followed? They

want to avoid these scenes but they want to resist eviction. They will

have to drag me out. I can't afford it. Although Labour have supported

process is against the coalition government spending cuts, on this

one, the unions or on their own. am just concerned that it will be

taken too far. People will get into trouble and end up with criminal

record. Observers of history have their own concerns. If you have a

public on your side, as it were, you have a chance of success. If the

public is against you, there are serious problems. Here, they may

have some way to go before they have the support they need. What has been

the impact of these kinds of welfare reforms on people in Lancashire and

on your council? It is too early to say what the impact will be on

individual people in Lancashire. In terms of the effect on the County

Council, again, it is difficult to say because district councils

collect the council tax. In some parts of the region there are

certainly cases where people have been forced out of homes they have

lived in for many years. They have been put into blocks of flats. Do

you have sympathy for those people? I am not aware of any of examples of

what you have said. I do have sympathy with people who are placed

in that position. The basic principle, that benefits should be

high... So you understand the union reaction there? You are asking me a

different question! I can understand people being disappointed, upset and

worried about it, but we have to draw the line at breaking the law in

terms of protesting. I am all for people protesting against measures

peacefully, but let's not go back to what happened when they were

protesting against the poll tax. Jenny Mein, sympathy for the unions?

I would have sympathy for the unions, but I am totally opposed to

civil disobedience. We live in a democracy, and we are allowed to

protest peacefully. It seems that the unions are trying to drag the

Labour Party leftwards at the moment. It may seem that way to you.

Some of the unions do appear to be trying to do that, but our leader,

Ed Miliband, has come out and spoken and said he would not support a

general strike. He called then you ask a -- he called Len McCluskey

from Unite reprehensible. Do you agree with that? Some of his words

are reprehensible. Jess may not know people who have had to move, but I

do. I spoke to people only at the weekend. One lady was moving. She

was able to move because there was a one-bedroom flat available for her.

The lady next door had a husband and a teenage son. There are properties

available. We all know, these benefit cuts... Bill Winlow, your

government is implementing these welfare reforms. Do you support

them? I don't support the so-called bedroom tax. There are so many

exceptions to it that are highly complex. And there are not enough

places available for people to move to. That is clear in my area. I was

talking to a lady the other night who had actually moved, swapped her

house with somebody else, and she is exceedingly upset, having put an

awful lot of work into the house she was in. She had to put in a new

kitchen and allsorts. The poll are feeling very, very angry and they

feel there is nothing available for them. On Thursday, voters in three

of our counties go to the polls. Let's have a look at what is up for

grabs. Elections to the powerful County

Council is one every four. They provide schools, roads and social

services. In the North West, that means that Cumbria, Derbyshire, and

perhaps the biggest prize, Lancashire County Council.

Conservative leader, it is wonderful to say that we have won control of

Lancashire County Council. Three years ago, the Conservatives

triumphed. They are dominant on 51 seats. Labour Trail on 17. The Lib

Dems have nine, and others seven. Four years on, experts say the

pendulum is likely to swing back. They very much look like they are

going to take control of Lancashire. It would be a huge disappointment to

them if they didn't. Voting in the three counties is on Thursday, with

the results expected on Friday lunchtime.

We have been considering some of the election issues.

Can I thank you for having us here? The national leaders have got their

eye on Lancashire, but what other local issues that matter here in

Preston and throughout the county? To find that out, you have to follow

the money. Adult social care is what the council spends more on than

anything else, but it is spending less than it used to. �70 million

has been cut from that budget. The cuts led to process. -- to

protests. For James, it led to the lost of a dedicated social worker.

His family say it is much harder to get his needs catered for. It took

us three months to get his blue badge because you are not able to

contact a care worker. You don't even get a name to care worker, you

get whoever is available. council says although there is less

money, they are still investing in the likes of Helen. She is a regular

at one of five new short break centres. I like the venue. I like

the garden. The previous building wasn't suitable. She really enjoys

being here. It is a treat for her as much as it is a treat for me to have

some respite! Adult social care centre -- spending has come down,

but it is the one thing that links all voters with their local

authority. Council tax has been cut by 2% here in the last four years -

a surefire boating attraction, one would think? You ask people if they

would rather have �14 in their pocket, or would they rather see a

decent -- a society and a community that better supports disabled

people. What would your answer be? Council tax wasn't so much of a

political hot potato. How do you feel about it going down? I would

rather see it low because I don't think they put better services on,

even if they put council tax up. would imagine a Conservative council

and a Conservative led government would be a recipe for harmony, but

one issue has caused plenty of conflicts. The issue of some of

Lancashire's schools and pupils. Increasingly bitter letters have

been flying back and forth between the council leader and the Education

Secretary about the pressure being put on many schools, including this

one in Leyland, to become academies. Lancashire has always had a

tradition, under both colours of government, of putting more money in

than normally comes through in the normal budget process. They have

always supported our schools. Whether it concerns care, classrooms

or council tax, there's plenty to debate in this election.

We had there from James, about losing his own social worker. Three

months to get a blue badge. Council driver, perhaps those cuts have been

too deep? Lancashire County Council doesn't issue the blue badge is any

more, so any delay is very unfortunate, but it is not down to

us. It is down to the new arrangements. I know James and his

father personally, so I know the situation there. They are not happy.

They are not happy because James doesn't have a dedicated social

worker. James is now in residential accommodation provided by the County

Council, so it is a service that he doesn't need in that sense. In

context, Lancashire County Council spends about �250 million every year

on 36,000 people. We need to make sure, for the benefit of everyone in

Lancashire, that we get the best possible value out of those

resources. We have reduced some of the expenditure, but we have

enhanced and improved services to the elderly, and particularly to

adults with learning disabilities like James. Jenny Meade, but as

Jennie Reed, if you look at Helen there, her family are very happy

with the reforms that have been put in place. I would be happy with a

tiled in that kind of accommodation. Unfortunately, the other two people

we saw interviewed are not happy with Lancashire, because cuts have

been made. Cuts to people with learning disabilities, cuts to their

carers, cuts to their leisure coordinators... Cuts are inevitable,

given the overall tightening of budget. The question is whether it

could have been done better. could have been done better. To take

a further �7.5 million in budget, on top of the cuts this year, the

people who have lost the services are the people who are asked to pay

more for services. They have noticed it. Have these cuts been handled in

the right way? Not entirely. We have looked at people who have moderate

care needs and are no longer being classified, according to our office.

The problem there is we cannot go for early intervention. If somebody

has a neat, we don't know about it now. That has been a great mistake.

It is a nationwide problem, but it's one we should be addressing. We need

to spend our resources more effectively, and we need to provide

better services. We have taken people out of moderate

classification, but we have actually spent more on giving them services

that are more appropriate to their needs. In addition to the �7.5

million we have spent, we have also spent �30 million on renovating and

refurbishing completely... You want to basically increase payments to

staff and wages. You want them to go up to the living wage. If you do

that, there's a cost of that. How will you pay for it? We have looked

very closely at it. To bring up the 20% of Lancashire County Council

staff who are being paid less than the living wage, we have asked

officers to look into ways of how we can find that money. It is not a

council tax increase. In the four years you have, could it be one of

those four years? Tories boast they have reduced council tax. With you,

maybe it will go up again? To be quite honest, they're boast is that

they have saved money on the back office. I agree with that, and we

will find that money. Geoff Driver, you have cut council tax. That is

quite a costly election bribe. not an election bribe. It is a

strategy we decided on when we did our budget. Jennifer says that

introducing the living wage will cost two point form and in pounds.

Our offices tell us it is likely to cost �27 million. That is an

increase of 7% in council tax or a loss of thousands of jobs. That is

very telling. She is telling the people of Lancashire that that is

what they want to do, but they don't know how to fund it. When I have

spoken to some of your colleagues at the council. They say that Geoff

Driver can be a bit of a bully. He puts some people in the Cabinet who

are not up to the job so he can get his way. He has reduced scrutiny at

the council. They suggest that is weak leadership. I think you have

made that up! Know he hasn't!You would need to substantiate it. I

think that the people of Lancashire recognise that the council is very

different from the one we inherited. We work on the basis that we are

there to serve the people of Lancashire. That's what we've done.

We've invested millions of pounds into the services that really

matter. You did reduce the number of scrutiny committees from five to

three, which means there is less scrutiny of your Cabinet than there

was. So that has been an affect on democracy. Jenny Mein, some people

say that you are very nice, but do not have the strength to be leader.

I will be in a good position to prove people wrong. Of course I am.

As regards the living wage, if we did it in the way that Geoff Driver

wants us to, it would cost �25 million. I have spoken to other

leaders across the country, and there are other ways to do it.

time for some of the smaller parties now. The Green Party and the BNP

currently have three streets -- three seats between them, and UKIP

are hoping to breakthrough after increasing their numbers. What you

will get from a UKIP councillor is they are unafraid to speak the

truth, opposing wind farms. Why are we paying all this money to council

bosses who are cutting frontline services? The way of opposing the

bedroom tax which has brought in by the coalition government. It is

supported by UKIP. We say it is grotesque for poor people. For the

Green Party to be standing outside and challenging on all sorts of

France is really important. UKIP on a roll. A danger that they overtake

you in the share of the vote? doubt that very much. There's a few

people slipping away, but not from us particularly. I see a number of

conservative votes going that way, and a few Labour too. I don't think

they will overtake us in the popular vote. I told our other two guests

what people are saying about them. What they say about you is, you do

not need to worry because you will not be surviving after the election.

From what I see on the doorstep, it is looking strong at the moment.

Elections as well this week in Cumbria. Here's our reporter.

All 84 of Cumbria County Council seats are up for grabs next week.

The council has a mixed history when it comes to leadership, and since

2001, no party has had overall control here. The council is run by

a rather unlikely Conservative-Labour coalition. The

Conservatives would need to win another four seats to take a

majority. Labour suffered significant losses in 2009, and

would need to win another 21 to take control. The Liberal Democrats are

particularly strong in South Lakeland, but this year, they are

fielding fewer candidates than UKIP.

A reminder for our viewers in High Peak that voting is also taking

place in Derbyshire. You can find a full list of candidates online.

Time for the rest of the week's news now in 60 Seconds.

New inquest into the deaths of 96 Liverpool fans at Hillsborough will

be held early next year. The location will be announced next

week. A group of Manchester academics is calling for a change in

the law to protect hospital patients. They say the law currently

protects animals more effectively. Patients' needs have been ignored in

an almost reckless way. Manchester MP John Leech is calling for the FA

Cup final to be held at 3pm on Saturday and to be the only major

game that day. Wigan and Man City will kick off at 5:15pm next month.

Villages without children. Campaigners warned that is the

future of the Lake District if things are not done to tackle second

home ownership. The valleys will no longer have young people in them.

Shellfish stocks across the Isle of Man will have better protection.

Lobster and crab are to be added to the protection of scallop dredging.

What is your prediction for the Lancashire elections? My production

is a period of no overall control and negotiations between the parties

as to who is going to lead the council. We have spoken to 160,000

people in the last few months. They are feeling let down by the Tories,

and we are very hopeful, but not complacent. Our experience is that

Labour and the Liberal Democrats are campaigning on national issues. When