21/04/2013 Sunday Politics North West

game responsibility for our well-being. We ask if local

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2071 seconds

government can really improve our good health! As councils regain

responsibility for looking after us, we'll ask if local government can

really improve our habits. It will only work well enough if it is the

first in a number of steps. joining us this week and looking

very well, the Labour MP for Bolton West, Julie Hilling, and Ben

Wallace, the Conservative MP for Wyre and Preston North. Welcome to

both of you. We start in Cumbria, where the Conservative police

Commissioner apologised unreservedly this week following revelations over

his expenses. The story began when a local newspaper, published details.

He repaid the money after the report was published but his office raised

concerns with the police. Police staff members and another person

were held on suspicion of data protection offences and misconduct

in public office. The police and crime panel, which oversees the

commissioner, has given him a list of questions to answer. It is a

press conference on Friday where he admitted to two mistakes, failing to

test the cost of the ship driven car before the bill arrived and failing

to submit his expenses on time. apologise unreservedly to the people

of Cumbria for the embarrassment that causes and for a situation --

this situation. He got the bill, he painted, he has apologised. We know

that expenses are toxic for any politician. It does feel, though,

with the next bit of the story, that maybe people will be trying to use a

sledgehammer to crack a nut. But do you feel that he has done anything

wrong now that requires further investigation, or as far as you're

concerned, is this case closed? feels that he has learned his

lesson, that he needs to make sure like all of us that our expenses are

up there, at their for people to see. Hopefully he has learned from

that and we will not have a repeat. It feels, as far as he's concerned,

that it should be case closed. he do not feel, then, as the Labour

Party does officially, that the Home Secretary needs to get involved in

this? My understanding of that is that some of that is around the

further action that has been taken, rather than specifically about him.

Then, is this really a matter for arrest? On the police investigation,

which is not about the police commissioner. Let's be clear. He is

not under investigation for a crime. It is other people. I do not

know the details of the investigation. I would be surprised

if anyone else does. We have to wait until that has played its course. As

we that a game when we know the details. What is true is that

expenses are toxic subject. Anyone would have been able to find out

about these storage of hired cars or chauffeur cars through a simple

Freedom of information request which is the law and gives you that

permission. We should not lose sight that... I do not think anyone has

accused the police commissioner of covering up, of breaking the law,

and therefore we need to see the full detail and what will come out.

What is sure is that expenses... me pick you up on this. What is

lightly strange here, as you say, is that this information could have

come out anyway. It was meant to be made public. So what has happened is

that some officials have seen this, we know that there was a mistake

here, that is why he has apologised for it, they have made public

something which would become public anyway, and yet they have been

arrested for it. I think some people would say that is a bit odd. We do

not know who these people were who got the information. We do not know

how they got it. Did they break into his office, hack is computer, sell

the information to a newspaper? Did they seek to profit from information

that was going to be published? not heavy-handed in your view?

not know. It could be heavy-handed. There are many examples of arrests

that are unnecessary, but let's wait until the investigation is complete.

Is part of the wider problem that we have inexperienced politicians in

high roles? This is a new policy and all these new commissioners are

going to have to learn that in this world, the world that MPs live in

now everyday, and journalists as well, is a world of transparency. So

we need to make sure they master that before we start getting to the

bottom things, to make sure we all know what is going on.

Meanwhile, Cumbria Police have condemned an internet group set up

to name and shame paedophiles, called Communities Against

Paedophiles in the South Lakes. They want the law changed so that parents

get automatic notification if a registered sex offender lives

nearby, but police and local politicians said they are actually

making children more vulnerable. Our reporter went to their first public

meeting, in Barrow. They say they are vigilant, not

vigilantes. Communities Against Paedophiles meet in a Barrow pub.

They are hiding in plain sight all the time. It has proved it with

Jimmy Savile and all the celebrities and everything. If everybody, every

area, had a group like ours, they could not go anywhere, could they?

We take it out of the paper and put it on to our page and the faces are

there and everybody knows who they are. CAPS claim thousands of

supporters on the internet. They have published the whereabouts of

paedophiles. But the information is not official. Nonetheless, members

at the meeting in Barrow were convinced they are fighting the good

fight. Wood the problem is that the information is not out there. The

whole idea is that we make the information available to people.

There are 11 streets around my area where there is a paedophile who has

been sent to jail. The police are worried, too. They said some people

have already been approached as a result of CAPS. They say some

offenders may be driven underground as a result of it, making them even

more difficult to monitor. The town MP agrees. I would strongly caution

them against going ahead with any course of action that the police say

could put our children at greater risk.

Cases such as Sarah Payne, murdered by paedophile Roy Whiting, are still

fresh in the public consciousness. It led to Sarah's Law, which gives

parents a limited information on the whereabouts of paedophiles.

America they have far more disclosure. There have been a lot of

the gelati attacks and actually, people have been murdered. We are

not a violent group. We will not accept any violence whatsoever. We

do not accept swearing on our page. Whilst there may have been just 20

people at the public meeting, CAPS have proud to carry on until the law

is changed. Julie, do you agree with this

group? No, I think the sorts of groups are extremely dangerous. One

of the biggest issue is, of course, is that paedophiles currently have

to be on the sex offenders register. What this may well do is drive

people underground, and then we would actually lose sight of where

they may be. It also encourages other behaviour. This saying they

are not vigilantes but we saw before witchhunts of people being accused

of paedophilia. -- this group are saying. We saw a paediatrician

attacked because people thought she was a paedophile, for example.

the reason though that people are doing it that they do not feel safe,

that the current system is not good enough? I understand why they have

that fear but under the current system you do have the right to

request information, if you are worried about person in your life

you have a right to request information about their background.

And that is good enough for you? think it is always a law that we

have two keep looking at. Is it working, do we need to develop it

further? But in terms of giving everybody access and saying, that is

a paedophile that lives there, I can that takes us down a road that is

very dangerous. What do you think? Does the law needs tightening up?

is quite easy to say I think we should lock up paedophiles for

longer. But we know that paedophiles are incredibly devious. This when

they are in prison and are released, you get a letter saying that

so-and-so is coming to your conduct is -- constituency to live. They

will tell you that a person has chosen to serve full-time rather

than come out early to minimise the controls put on them. So we know

they are devious. The priorities protecting children and it is our

job, the police, to monitor these people. Anything that makes it

harder to monitor will actually make it more dangerous for people.

you think this makes it worse? Wood death is should be listened to,

which is these guys are so devious, you stop putting their names outside

every door and they will run away and you will have no idea. -- these

guys should be listened to. Every division that has the names will not

be able to keep tabs and that is when real danger happens. We need to

make sure it is always reviewed. I encourage my colleagues to go to

their local police protection unit. You must make sure we do not

threaten the real ability of monitoring these people.

It must have been a difficult month for any overweight councillors who

enjoy smoking out there. Because responsibility for public health has

moved from the NHS to local government after almost 40 years.

That'll cancel is already looking into minimum pricing for alcohol.

Our reporter has been to the town to find out if councils really can

change our habits. -- Blackpool Council.

It was under the Victorians that councils first got to grip with the

nation's public health. It is a deadly disease... Over the decades,

there have been high profile campaigns. During the 1980s, HIV and

heroin were hitting the headlines. Fast forward and fast food and

obesity is on the agenda. After nearly 40 years of educating

society, the NHS is now handing over public health act to local

government. This is about the people of Blackpool. We have big robins

here, no question. That Paul is one of the most deprived areas in the

country. For housing, problems with alcohol and poor eating have its

mean it has one of the lowest life expectancies in the country. I think

it is a really positive step forward. It does mean we are going

to integrate debtor, public health, with all the other functions of the

council, for example, in housing, in the anti-poverty strategy. There are

wide powers here that we already have to do things. The best way of

doing that is for everybody to work together as one big team. That is

what we will do for more in the future. There are major plans to

turn around ill health and bad habits on the resort. But how much

power does the director of public members and other members of the

council to positively improve the health of the population through the

decision that may make -- that they make. I also want to look at the

number of fast-food outlets around schools, for example. These are

things we can look at now in terms of public health.

Andrew Southern has been addicted to drink and drugs for over 20 years.

He is now clean and feels new will work. I have had problems with

housing, help through my drug problem and alcohol problem, and

benefits. I have been sent here, there and everywhere in the past.

But I think more now that they are starting to deal with my problem is

a bit better. The Government has provided ring-fenced budgets but

public health is not immune from the need to make savings amongst

cash-strapped councils. You have to remember that local councils are

extremely cash restrained. This is a welcome step in the opposite

direction, towards greater localism, but it will only work well if it is

the first of a number of steps and we see greater integration of health

and social care. In Blackpool, 25 members of NHS staff now work for

the Council, promoting healthy living and lifestyle choices. This

is a radical shake-up of the NHS and local government. My whole career

has been working within the NHS so it has been more of a cultural

change. I am learning how to work more in a political environment. So

I suppose that is where it will be the biggest change for us at the end

of the day. Public health is at the heart of the political agenda. Local

councils will no doubt feel the pressure in getting the treatment

right. We are joined by the former director of public health for the

North West. Why does this matter, what is the big significance of

moving from the NHS to local government? It matters because in

one sense a lot of the things that need to be done to protect and

improve health are outside of the health service. Historically, they

were things to do with housing, recreation, employment and so on.

The public health departments, when they were in local authorities

before 1974, were often very big. The Liverpool one had over 6000

staff. Health visitors, social workers, environmental health

officers, inspectors, all sorts. I have campaigned for this for my

entire 35 years in public health but I now have mixed feelings because

the paradoxes that a lot of the things that used to be under the

direct control of local government are no longer. Will be new directors

of Public health have the independence to do this job

properly? This is a big worry. The reason why I have not gone into the

county council in Cumbria which I should have done was because of the

lack of support for my position there. Lancashire has a similar

problem. The North West as a whole, we have probably the strongest

public health function in the country, and you have people like

the person in Blackpool, who has the support of the council. The Wirral

is a good example. But we have several which are not, and out of

the 140 local authorities nationally, there are about 30 which

appear to be as it stripping or intent on as it stripping the public

health resource. Julie, are you confident, having heard what John

has said about the position in your part of the world? I do think it

depends very much on your local authority. I know in Bolton they

already had a joint appointment between the local authority and the

VCT and the Director of Public health, so that has moved across

beautifully into the local authority, staff have transferred

across and because there has been a long established partnership between

the local authority and health, it is likely to carry on working very

well. There have been all sorts of things over the last few years, so I

am feeling very positive in my patch about it but I do think there are

difficulties, and there was a concern, of course, as well, it was

the budget is confirmed for two years, but already it is being said

that there will be a 5% cut on that budget in future years, so that will

constrain our ability... And what about your part of the world? Will

it improve things? I think everyone has agreed that joining together,

trying to make sure that we tackle health and inequality and all the

problems people face by not just working any treatment area but also

public health, housing, is a good thing. Like all major policy shifts,

it has to be something we continue to monitor. We cannot just say, we

have done it, off we go, we can let the good ones go and the bad ones

will be back here trying to fix the problem in three or four years

time. So we need to monitor the ring-fencing, monitor the councils

that are not playing ball. It has only been ring-fenced for two years.

Ring-fences often get out for a few. Governments do not like ring-fencing

things for very long and local authorities do not like it. The

Government often says it will do it for two years and then review it. So

in two years' time hopefully I and my colleagues will write to the

Secretary of State for health and say, do not remove the ring-fence.

Where there are problems, people like Professor Ashton knows

absolutely this area back to front. We need his guidance as to where it

is going wrong on the front line, so if it is not working well in that

they should, I can go and speak to the chief executive and councillors

and get things fixed. What should the priorities be? We need to make

sure that the local director of public health has the mandate to

speak out on public health issues. This was something which existed

from the 1840s right through to 1974. The annual Public health

report of the medical officer of health in those days was

independent, like the auditors reporting local government,

presented to the annual general meeting, a full council with the

media there for transparency. My concern, and I have had this in

Cumbria, we do not do that. These reports need to be corporate so that

other people can have an input. This is worrying because we need is

holding up a mirror to the situation. In the Victorian people,

people could only be sacked with the approval of the Secretary of State.

You could not be sacked for saying things which were uncomfortable,

only for being an alcoholic or incompetent, but I am worried about

that freedom of speech. I think it is very important that we get that

secured. The other thing is that actually although we are talking

about public health going back to local government, it will be in

three places now. The director of public health will be appointed

jointly with public health England, big chunks of public health will

remain with Public Health England... I am very proud of my GPs

being linked up with that organisation. They have made things

with schools and district councils. We have got to carry on with that

agenda as well. Thank you very much indeed. Time now for a round-up of

the rest of the week's muse. Now here is 60 Seconds.

A UKIP candidate in next month's Lancashire county council elections

was forced to step down after sending offensive tweets about the

party and the death of Margaret Thatcher. Ken Ball was due to

contest Pendle. Tributes were paid this week to Anne

Williams, who lost her battle with cancer. Anne had campaigned for the

truth after her son Kevin died at Hillsborough. That woman gave so

much of her life to trying to just get the truth and justice for her

son. A half-a-million-pound arts project

in Wirral to celebrate last year's Olympics has finally been cancelled.

A column of steam was to rise out of Birkenhead dock but the artist

couldn't make it work. The Health Minister accused Labour

of scaremongering, saying there were no plans to close A&E at Lancaster

Royal Infirmary. At no point in time have there ever been plans to close

Lancashire Royal Infirmary. And sand yachting is to return to

the Fylde coast. A 10-year ban imposed when a woman was killed has

been temporarily lifted under strict Williams. How much do you think she

changed attitudes on Hillsborough? Immensely. She would not take no for

an answer and she kept on and kept on. She did not do it for months,

but years. She got there. She has not entirely, no one has finished it

yet, but she got justice for the victims. Well done and a sad loss.

And you are campaigning on dangerous dogs at the moment. Yes, after the