09/06/2013 Sunday Politics North West

While the new schools for skills to there children for work or label

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2140 seconds

them failures? The Shadow Education future. Will the new schools for

schools prepare them for work or label them academic failures?

don't show the right levels of initiative, can they work well in

teams? Are the independent thinkers? Those are the sort of things we will

be developing. Joining us is Stephen Twigg, the

Shadow Education Secretary, and Stephen O'Brien, the Conservative

MP. Welcome. Stephen O'Brien, since you were here last time, you have

now been appointed the Prime Minister's special representative.

Yes it is to an area in the Sahara would it is very fragile. There has

been a lot of instability. It is an interest to try to stop that there

is a security threat to our constituents here in England. At the

same time, any international security is about the respect of the

people in that part of the world and all people the world. What have you

had to do it? It is a combination of some international development

response, in terms of nutrition, but combining it with trying to get

access to some of these places. That has meant working with some of the

military to push back the advancing terrorists and their fellow

travellers and that has been done very much in support of local

African forces. Above all, getting an international dialogue going with

the authority of the UN to get a better way forward for this area. We

are currently in discussions. Stephen Twigg, are we beginning to

see Labour party policy now begin to formulate? We have certainly seen

some interesting announcements this week. It has been a very important

week for the speeches that Ed Miliband and Ed Balls of meat.

Clearly, the economy is going to be at the centre of the political

debate for the next election. Our credibility is important when we are

challenging the Government. Do you welcome beginning of policy that we

are talking about? We talk about the benefits cap for three years, only

capture the benefits budget as Labour is now supporting, I'm sure

some people in the Labour Party don't think that's a good idea.

have to make tough choices. I think the public recognise that the

economy is in such a state that we cannot reverse everything this

Government has done. We have got to have clear priorities. What we are

saying is that right now the economy needs a boost. What we need right

now, as is said, -- as Ed Miliband said, we need house-building. In my

own area, we need to build new schools. That would get construction

workers into work, creamy apprenticeship and the schools.

Schools is what we will be document. When he was elected he was the

youngest councillor in the country. A rising star in the Labour Party.

This week, Jake Morrison has been suspended. He has had a bust up with

a still rising star, his local MP. It has dragged on Joe Anderson. Is

it just a personality clash or evidence of tension in the party?

Jake Morrison is duly elected. Morrison's victory in 2011 was

celebrated by the big names in Liverpool's Labour Party. Let's

salute and applaud the idealism of Jake Morrison and other young Labour

councillors around this country. how did it go so spectacularly

wrong? I have loved it. I have had everything into serving the people.

For me, there has been that difficult a behind-the-scenes that

obviously the people of Liverpool don't really see. The difficulty

behind-the-scenes has been with his local MP Luciana Berger. She said

Councillor Morrison was ignoring members. Those who have paid to be

part of the party who are ultimately to decide whether our return as a

candidate and not a counsellor. Luciana wants me to speak to a

script -- stick to a script. said that he was the only counsellor

out of 14 who did not engage with have to break young politicians

followed so publicly. There is a bigger issue here about the

relationship between the national parties and local parties and their

strategies. Trying to define clear strategy, a clear message for

campaigning and local councillors who wanted to do it the wrong way.

What started as a clash of personalities and start became a --

personalities became about strategy. This kit was to keep those

campaigning on the street happy and on-board.

Stephen Twigg, it is simple, but what has gone wrong? I think it is

sad that this has happened. I very much welcome the fact we have a lot

of young people standing for public office. Jake was the youngest

councillor when he was a leg did two years ago. That same night other

young people were elected in Liverpool and other parts of the

country. I want to encourage other young people to come forward and get

involved. In that piece we saw Ed Miliband briefing his idealism. In

the statement that perhaps unwisely Road he has put up on Facebook he

says, " I would much prefer to be putting my time and energy into

working for the people than pleasing the local MP." What is wrong with

that statement? What is important is that councillors and MPs are working

together to serve their community. Last night, I was meeting with

councillors and party members in my constituency. We had a lot of debate

and discussion about a whole range of issues. I know that Luciana meets

with her local councillors on a very regular basis and works well with

those local councillors. She has made her mark as a local MP, taking

up issues that really matter to local people. But is it foreign MP

to line manage their councillors? you? I don't line manage and I don't

think Luciana does either. I work with councillors. He certainly

feels, and I don't know if he is right or not. He feels that she has

been pushing him down a certain route and telling him what to do. He

clearly feels that as a local councillor he should be pretty much

able to represent his people in the way he wants to. I have worked with

Jake, for example, on the excellent happy that he has run to get

defibrillators into schools in Liverpool and other parts of the

country. His enthusiasm was great. There are lots of other councillors

in Liverpool also showing that level of enthusiasm. I don't think the

other councillors in the channel's constituency feel they are

restricted by being expected to be part of a team. That is all that she

was saying she wanted to see. quite difficult to draw conclusions

because, you may, but generally we don't know what is happened. What

you would agree, perhaps, is that this should have been headed off. It

does seem like a personality clash, to some extent, and it should have

been headed off before it reached the stage. It would have been better

if we did not reach the stage, obviously. There is an investigation

underway so I cannot comment on the individual details of the

allegations. I think the lesson from this is that communication is

important than that we need to work well together. Of course there will

be differences of view between councillors and MPs but we can have

those differences conducted in a constructive and friendly way.

Stephen O'Brien, to some extent, this perhaps reflects tension as the

racing between national leadership and local membership. We saw that

recently with the Conservatives, with those comments alleged about

lunatics. What is very clear, whilst I Sant venture into the private

grief of the Labour Party, there is a need to remember, particularly as

an MP, you are your constituent's representative in Westminster and

not Westminster's representative in the constituency. You will have

differences of view from time to time with the councillors. They have

responsibilities. The heart elected and have a -- via elected and have a

mandate to account for those. Just as we are a team or national level.

It seems like a lack of respect sometimes. You need to be in very

close touch with the local opinion of your constituents at all times.

Doorknocking, and when you speak to the constituents on the doorway,

should be the same. I have always been an opponent of onshore wind

turbines. I am very pleased to see the party made an announcement

yesterday that has brought that into the mainstream. That has been

something where was illegal councillors -- with local

councillors we have worked from the bottom up. What matters is to be

able to work together with people to tune where you represent and what

policies you adopt. Thank you. Now, had you decided on

your career by the age of 14? Critics say that children are being

effectively asked to do just that. Studios skills but by local

businesses offer a more vocational gridlike alum -- curriculum where

academic schools are more tech focused. Our children be asked to

choose too soon? If the latest episode in the

shake-up of the school system. Here in Burnley, this old mill is being

transformed into new classrooms which specialise in construction and

engineering. For example, in a normal school, you might start at

9am and finished at 3pm. What we try to do is replicate the world works

and we start at 8:30am and finish at 4:45pm. At this college, instead of

a headteacher there will be a managing director. Students will

start at the age of 14. Employers are saying that youngsters are

coming out of schools really good and getting better GCSEs but not

necessarily ready for the world of work. They don't show the right

levels of initiative. Can they work well in teams? Are the independent

thinkers? Those are the sort of things that we will be developing

here. Getting lone goal shot. Meanwhile, in Cheshire, not for the

Academy are planning on opening a new studio school on the same site.

-- and Academy is planning. It will give some students the opportunity

to specialise in media. Studios skills are for students of all

abilities. Studios skills grow students an alternative who would

wish to follow pathways that lead them either to university or into

employment at 18. One of the important things is that when you

get into work... Students at the Academy are already used to working

with big names in the business. Lloyds are running this workshop. Do

these youngsters have a career plan already mapped out? I want to do a

gap year and then go to university and study law. I just think about

what I need to do to get the job by concentrating in school and stuff.

I've not thought about a lot. quite liked working with kids, maybe

teaching. This design studio welcomes the idea of giving

youngsters a head start in getting ahead. We are in the sort of digital

industry and there is a huge skills shortage of programmers. A lot of

people find that that is the area they want to get into but it is so

difficult for them to start doing that once they are into their 20s

cause the industry just move so quickly. The king of those basic

skills at school would just be such an advantage. There are different

schools of thought. Not everyone agrees with the plans. Teaching

agrees with the plans. Teaching unions are concerned over the

quality of teaching staff, funding being taken away from state schools

and pushing youngsters into a work and pushing youngsters into a work

environment too soon. We do have a concern that there is an obligation

for the young people in these establishments to undertake some

work. Children as young as 14 are being asked to do four hours of work

per week. Once the pupils get to 16 and above, they're being asked to do

two days of work per week. The rest of the week given over to study.

Again, we think that is wrong. Government says the new schools and

colleges will bridge the gap between education and employment. The

changes will no doubt be a steep learning curve.

We are joined, from London, by Martin Johnson from the Association

of teachers and lecturers. We can today programme. These skills,

studio schools for example, represent more choice for students

who are more practical? For a few people in a few places. This is an

interesting programme but one that could not be scaled up around the

country for all kinds of reasons. Let me just say some of the things

that are good. The first and most important one is the method of

teaching and learning. I don't like to use the word vocational but it is

applied learning that these youngsters are experiencing. In

other words, they can relate what they need to know to the real world

and that is the kind of teaching and learning that we needed all of

schools, not just for a few. Nobody is going to be forced to go to this

kind of skills they don't want to? Absolutely. So it is a good

opportunity for those who do want to? That is the good side of it.

What I am saying is that kind of teaching should spread across all

our schools. The downside... I don't quite understand that argument. Some

schools may be more academic focused, some be more academic

focused, thumping more practically focused towards employment as these

ones are. I don't understand what your objection is to that. Because

this is the great error of our education system. That it is

entirely, almost entirely, biased towards a very small minority of her

youngsters who are academically minded. Most young people are not

actually. Furthermore, all young people need to learn a range of

skills and have a range of understanding far greater than the

narrow academic regime that most of them have to put up with. Let me

pick up that was my guests here. Mr O'Brien, your government's policy,

what do you make of what Mr Johnson is saying? I welcome the policy

because I think it gives an extra range of choice. Don't think it is a

competitive issue of other schools but it adds to the range of

opportunity. It is something I have argued a long time. But regularly as

I come out of the manufacturing industry myself. There is a need to

recognise that for many pupils, and to give them that confidence and

parity of esteem, depending on whether attitudes like, whether it

is academic applied learning, whether it is likely to be with

practical skills rather than intellectual competitiveness, is to

help all the young people through the education system, into things

which are appropriate and they have an aptitude for rather than has been

the case to push them up two stages and leave it to the next stage to

deal with what is provided. This is a good opportunity to change that.

In your constituency that are now studio schools. If anybody wants to

do it, as you are saying it is a really good idea, actually, they

can. I would encourage as anybody who wants to get one going in my

school to do it. We don't have as many schools in my constituency.

They don't go to the established high schools, they're going to 1's

just outside with it is in Chester or further afield. That is

inevitable. It is just Bieber geography configures. With a bit

more of them under a Labour government? -- just the way the

geography. Yes. We started them.Did you start them? The JCB was the

first that was set up. There were none set up under Labour in the

North. I think it does some brilliant things. I think we do want

more of them but I agree with the point of Martin Johnson made which

is that we want applied learning across all other schools and

colleges. The direction of Michael Gove's policy is the precise

opposite. I think that is bad for our economy as well as for young

people. You are in support of free schools? We are talking about studio

schools and UTC is. We have a lot of concern about free schools.

reason I mention it is that these are the kind of skills that have

greater independence, similar to free schools. There are

similarities. What is really important is that we get schools

were they're needed. One of the concerns I have expressed about free

is that some of them are being created where there is spare

capacity whereas in other parts of the country there is a shortage.

That cannot be right. I don't agree... Close some down?It's not

about closing them down it is about the decisions for the future. I will

be sitting down some further thinking of is in a speech in the

future. As far as free schools, of course, they offered a very type of

opportunity which Martin has been arguing for. It is a greater range.

Because of the freedom to set the curriculum to meet all of the beads

of all the problems of -- pupils go to the schools, it is better.

Letters extend them to others, that will be part of the argument I am

making. I will be making a speech on this very subject. We have got to

make sure that there will be good schools in all of our

constituencies. We have a Secretary of State who never praises the great

work that is going on in maintaining skills. I do not think that is their

schools and that you need to start from summer. You need to get this

roar of these much greater choices for young people. -- start

somewhere. What do you make of what you appeared. I was going to come in

to say that I think MPs of all parties and to think very carefully

about free schools and academies. One of the things that we are very

worried about is in practice the lactose -- the lack of up counter

that two parents, the communities that they are supposed to serve and

in fact to the taxpayers who fund them. We are starting to get very

unsavoury stories about the financial shenanigans in a few, a

small minority, but nevertheless a significant minority of these

schools who are so independent that nobody knows what is going on.

sounds intriguing but we believe that they you for your time.

It is time for a round-up of the rest of the week's news.

There will be no need to import gas for a decade, so claims the energy

firm looking for Shell gas in Cheshire. Is far more underground

than first thought. That is according to eye gas. 50p per unit,

that is the minimum price that Blackpool's director of public wants

to slap on booze to stop us harming our health. This would increase to

�3 75, more than doubling the price. Wanderers then there are new shirt

sponsors just after a week. They've dated to a backlash from the

supporters. Farmers say they will fight plans to

extend the Lake District and Yorkshire Dales parks. The

authorities say the local economy stands to benefit. Our wonderful

grounds. It should benefit a lot of businesses. The Government came to

Knowsley Safari Park to launch its campaign to save the elephant.

30,000 are poached rivalry in Africa each year.

-- poached for ivory. Mr Brown, fracking, it looks like

the prospect for a lot of drilling under large part of Cheshire. Good

or bad? I am very interested in principle I think fracking has a lot

to offer. I think gas as part of the mix that the energy provision of the

future will have. We think it is important that we recognise that we

have the opportunity were there is a lot to be done whether we know it

could be operationalised. People won't want to see big drilling rigs

arriving, will be? I have been taking a lot of advice on my own

constituency and I think there is something where we recognise that

this is an asset of the North West and that we should not be so

parochial to say that we cannot can be at two national good. If this can

be proved to delivered -- to be delivered safely and sustainable

then this is something the North West is hoping to contribute to the

national country. We have been the cradle of the economy and pass on

this is a way to help in the future. I think there are serious concerns

about safety and environmental factors. We would not rule it out.

Gas is part of future energy mix and we've got to be very careful before

proceeding to drilling. I do not think we are at that stage that.

you welcome the Government's announcement that there is going to

be tighter restrictions on where wind farms can be put up with people

to not want them? I think there is real concern that the Government is

stepping back from renewable, including wind farms. We need to

have renewables alongside other more traditional forms of energy