02/06/2013 Sunday Politics North West

North West: Salami slicing or the big chop - as the arts face further

cuts, can big business fill the gap or is the money heading south?

And my guests this week are the Labour MP for Ellesmere Port &

Neston, Andrew Miller. And the Conservative leader of Cheshire West

and Chester Council, Mike Jones. There is a bid in for just to become

the UK city of culture. How important is that for Chester?

think it's very important for the borough, not just Chester. We are a

new council, four years old, and we have worked hard to get investment

in sports and arts and this is a really good rallying call for

innovation and creativity throughout the borough and all sorts of drama

and culture and arts events. that is the issue will now be

talking about later. But Andrew, as finances are squeezed, less money to

go around and as you are chairman of the Commons science committee, you

would presumably say that science should be the priority? Far from it.

In a civilised society, arts and culture and science go together. We

ought to be supporting developments in all areas. The problem I have

with Mike which I'm sure we will develop is how we fund it and how we

utilise the private sector to the best advantage in all of those

disciplines. Let's talk about that later.

The season may be over, but Bolton Wanderers made a controversial

signing this week. The club's new sponsor is the payday loan company,

QuickQuid. Many fans and local politicians are furious, but the

club has defended QuickQuid's They're a company who say they lend

out cash to help tide you over. their loans come at quite a price.

QuickQuid's annual interest rate is more than 1,700%. But now the firm's

splashing some of its cash on Bolton Wanderers in a new sponsorship deal.

In return, the company will get its name on Bolton's shirts next season.

Not everyone's impressed. QuickQuid are company that is, like all payday

loan companies, are companies that prey on those people who are least

able to repay their exorbitant interest rates and we are calling on

Bolton Wanderers football club to rethink this deal.

Beyond Bolton, opposition to payday loan companies is growing.

Campaigners in Bury this week called for powers to reduce their presence

on the high street and stop the firms advertising on football

shirts. It is not by accident that these companies are targeting

football clubs. One in five payday loan s are taken out in the

Northwest. QuickQuid weren't talking this week,

but the chief executive of the Consumer Finance Association, which

represents the payday lenders, says the high APR figure doesn't

accurately reflect what borrowers actually pay. The interest rate is

confusing for people. What people want to know is how much do I have

to pay in pounds and pence? So we tell people how much they need to

pay back per �100. The interest rate is a publication. Nobody pays

thousands of percent in relative. for the club, they say they're

looking forward to working with QuickQuid. But by taking the

sponsorship, it may take the club some time to regain the backing of

some of its supporters. What is Labour doing about this?

Stella Creasey was correct, this is exploitation. My blood message to

fourball clubs is to pull out of these deals, it is outrageous. There

is also Blackpool who has had involvement with a similar company.

And we have to get out of this kind of arrangement. It is exploiting the

very hardest hit in our communities. Five such companies operating in the

heart of Ellesmere Port, exploiting some of the poorest people in our

community. I would like to see local authorities having the planning

powers to stop them expanding. Do you want them shut down? I would

love to see them shut down. I do not think they have a place in modern

society. Credit unions are the way forward, proper ways of managing

finances for people excluded from the finance system. Give local

authorities powers to closed and these businesses. Mike, would you

like to see those actor powers that Andrew talks about? We have argued

strongly from several points of view and I would support Andrew in his

comments. It is exploitation of the poor and what is worse, it is

encouraging them to use illegal loan sharks and that is very corrosive in

our communities. There is a big expansion of these companies in

places like els near Port. Yes, and Andrew is working with us and with

the police to try to shut down the illegal loan sharks and tried to get

rid of these ridiculous interest rates. Is there a moral role here

for football teams? Should they be worrying about this type of thing?

think so because football is a very expensive profession and it is

almost obscene the amount of money people get paid. That is market

forces for you. That is one way of looking at it. There is a case for

regulation. You think there should be more regulation? The office of

fair trading is not doing a good enough job at the moment, that is

one comment. They have been severely criticised by the Public Accounts

Committee but it is important to remember that that is the unanimous

report of a committee that is dominated by Government sites. There

is consensus on the backbenches at least that we should do something

about this. Let's see the Government take a lead and bring forward

regulation to put some of these people under control. Thank you.

Moving on and the Shadow Health Secretary and MP for Leigh, Andy

Burnham, has called for a summit, better known as a meeting, over the

state of our A&E departments. Mr Burnham visited Leighton Hospital in

Crewe this week to hear about the increasing number of patients there.

Last weekend, there was a backlog of ambulances and patients being

diverted at the Royal Liverpool. But whose fault is it? Being there she

met earlier in the morning blamed the out of hours service... These

reasons are complex. Do you regret reducing the hours that GPs are

available? Now, because this Rob has got worse in the last year. It has

deteriorated sharply in the last months. Andy Burnham looking

uncomfortable there and that is because in retrospect, there were

mistakes made, weren't they? weren't there? In 2010, 90 8% of AMD

episodes met their targets -- 90% of accident and emergency. Importantly,

the chronic problems faced in social care. Why our hospital staff saying

to media but there is no problem would be GPs not doing the amount of

work they used to? The King's fund and the Federation disagree with

that analysis. Yes, there were problems with the out of hours

service and I accept that but that is not the core of the problem. The

reasons I cited are the core of the problem. And the biggest one of the

lot is around how we manage the future of social care. Last year,

the Health Secretary gave back �2 billion to the Treasury. If we only

have half of that back over the next couple of years and put that into

social care we could address some of these chronic problems that are

hitting us across the country. has the problem got worse under the

Conservatives? I am not sure that a party political debate is

appropriate. We are working with colleagues in both Chester and

Leighton Hospital, and it is not the problem there. There is a problem in

Leighton Hospital. They are delivering, I was talking to someone

there and they are meeting their targets. Just as Chester R. I think

there is a problem across the country, Leighton is an interesting

hospital. People from a very wide area crossing boundaries and I am

sure that the complexities of hospitals like that need factoring

in to how we examine and find ways to create solutions. And if one

looks at the social care issue, that spills over into the other councils

as well. Is not something you agree with Andrew that you should be doing

more about? -- is that something? people do need to go to hospital,

which are to make sure that they are rehabilitated, we work with them, we

give them physiotherapy, whatever is required to build up self-confidence

and give them independence and keep them independent as long as possible

and that is why I think we are solving that problem by working

together with our health partners. Think how much more could be done if

we had it act by the centre into local Government. Local Government

cuts are ridiculous and I am sure Michael would agree with me.

would love a bit more cash, wouldn't you? We could put that into the NHS

and it would impact significantly. It is not really the real world

though. We have taken millions of pounds of costs and invested about

�40 million of that into adult social care, children's social care

and investment in sports centres and things like that. We are doing OK,

we are coping with the reductions of our income by the Government and we

are still delivering great services for our residents.

Later this month it's the Chancellor's spending review which

means more cuts to Government departments. Few in the arts

industry are expecting good news. And while donations from business

are helping to fill the gap, more of that money than ever is heading to

They could be the artists of the future. At the Whitworth Gallery in

Manchester, they're already educating the next generation of

arts fans. But they're having to wings to the gallery. It's a huge

project costing �15 million, with the majority of that coming from the

Heritage Lottery Fund. It will give us double the gallery space, a brick

wing and a glass wing which will create a gallery in the trees, a

cafe in the trees and it will also create a new art garden.

But few can afford investments like this, as the Government cuts back on

spending. In 2011, the Arts Council's funding was reduced by

almost 30%. And with the Chancellor due to deliver his next spending

review next month, no-one's expecting the situation to get

better. We have had reduced income from the Government to pass on to

cultural organisations and so inevitably, we have seen cultural

organisations begin to question their business models, think about

how they can adapt to new circumstances.

This gallery grew from an institute founded in 1889 with the money left

by the industrialist, Sir Joseph Whitworth. And now, increasingly,

arts organisations in the North West are again turning to the business

world for support. One thing we are trying to do in Manchester is get a

group of businesses together who will act as a team to help the

select group of arts organisations to really develop their business

thinking. It is about bringing knowledge in, not just about the

money. The arts have to be more entrepreneurial going forward.

Manchester's Royal Exchange Theatre runs the UK's biggest playwriting

competition, but couldn't do it without its corporate sponsor,

Bruntwood. Money makes it happen, it means there is also on the back of

that, a media partner which enables us to go national to sponsor it, and

there is a whole website set up so there is support for that and a

whole package of things that come with the sponsorship. It shows that

we are an innovative, forward-thinking company that likes

to think a bit more outside the box creatively so it has been good for

our image. It's a model the Arts Council is

trying to encourage other organisations to follow through its

catalyst scheme. Last year, it gave �99,000 to Manchester Camerata to

help it find new long-term sources of income. For smaller

organisations, part of what the catalyst scheme can do is help them

develop the skills, knowledge and contact is by working with some

larger organisations who have already got those skills. There is a

certain amount of passing on of learning to smaller organisations in

the sector. Last year, businesses gave �8.1

million to arts organisations in the North West. That's 11% more than the

previous year. But the majority of money still goes to the capital,

with 68% of business donations going to London last year. And some arts

organisations think it's better not Blackburn's Thwaites Empire Theatre

bears the name of a local brewery, but its sponsorship only pays a

small proportion of the bills. With no grants or Government funding,

they've learnt to be self sufficient - relying on ticket sales and the

community. We do not rely on grants, and sit down and think where is the

next grand coming from? Because we work on the theory that God helps

those who work out to help themselves. Having the skills of

marketing and having a wonderful trip of volunteers. -- wonderful

troop of volunteers. They have learned the importance of

showbusiness. The challenge is for other arts organisations is to learn

the same tricks. And we're joined now from London by

Katie Evans from the Centre for Economics and Business Research,

which recently compiled a report on the value of arts and culture to the

economy. Thanks for joining us. Give us the figure, how much is the arts

worth to the Northwest economy? and culture made a direct

contribution of 420 million pounds to the GDP of the Northwest in 2011.

That is the spending of arts and cultural organisations directly and

they're out put. When you then consider their interactions with

firms across the economy, you find that that rises to nearly �1 billion

so 5000 people are employed by arts and cultural organisations in the

region but for each of those jobs, we find that another job at least

created. Do you think it matters where the money comes from?

problem is that it is difficult to know how an audience is going to

react to a really innovative piece of art and that means a lot of risk

in investing in it. That can mean that private-sector financial

support can be reluctant and in that case, what we think is that public

funding can act as a badge of quality and convince private sector

donors that it is worth investing. Katie, thank you for your time.

Mike, in Chester, you have the idea of revamping the theatre. You were

turned down for lottery funding or Arts Council funding, you were

putting in �40 million? The total cost of the project is about �40

million and we are trying to reduce that cost. But a substantial amount

from the council, is that value for money? I believe so because we are

investing in that and sports centres and money is tight but we feel it's

important for young people especially to get them to learn

skills. What about the wider economy? It creates jobs and more

importantly as more value to the quality of life of people in our

borough and we believe that is important. For you, it is not just

about boosting the local economy, you think it is worthwhile as a

thing itself? Absolutely, and you can see the difference in Chester,

it was called a cultural desert but now the mystery plays in the middle

of June, that happens every five years, we have got theatre in the

park, and you can see how it creates civic pride within your cities and

towns and in Ellesmere Port which Andrew will tell you about, we have

got parades happening for the first time in 15 years. Where should be

funding becoming from, Andrew? broadly accept Mike's case for

investment in arts and sport. Where I fall out with him is that I feel

lots more can be done to develop funding streams from within the

private sector. He is doing it in the arts sector and I am challenging

him to do it in the sports sector as well. What do you mean?We are

developing a concept of a sports village. I was at the heart of it

some years ago and we already have an Olympic standard athletics track,

we are looking for a swimming pool to go with that. Mike is going for a

lower cost approach because he's not prepared to partner with the private

sector. Believe... I would thought that he would be keen to go with the

private sector? Yes, they want to provide extra capital costs and

additional revenue cost for me to pull. We would go for it tomorrow

and I invited Andrew to do this two years ago but money is very tight in

the private sector. And the council leader... I am the council leader!

The lead councillor did not have private sector involvement in the

plan. Too much money going to London? In arts and sport, I would

like to see more being concentrated in the region. And in science as

well. It sucks in money in a way that is incredibly damaging to the

Northwest economy. It is because there is an historic drive that

sucks money towards the capital and that appear in the north-west, we

have got this it is working together in concert to pull money into our

region that were to gather money into our region. And I agree with

Andrew on that, but we have got a fantastic science Park, let's make

sure we maximise that and show Government that money spent here is

what a great deal more than that spent in the South.

Time for the rest of the week's news now in 60 seconds.

A coroner is urging the Government to take action after a Lancashire

teacher who changed sex killed herself. Michael Singleton said the

media was guilty of "ill-informed bigotry".

Liverpool had just celebrated its role in the Battle of the Atlantic

when the Chancellor sailed in to announce funding to prepare the port

for the future. 5000 jobs in the city and the potential of many

thousands more. Derek Hatton defended his record as

Deputy Leader of Liverpool City Council, 30 years after Militant

sparked one of the biggest political battles of our time. �20 million for

being robbed by the Thatcher Government.

Their high streets were supposed to get a new lease of life, but Nelson

and Stockport are among the Mary Portas pilot towns that now have

more empty shops than a year ago. And chip in with your views -

Salford City Council is asking people what they think of plans to

ban takeaways near schools. It's to try and tackle childhood obesity.

Andrew, questions about whether the Mary Portis idea is working to

revive the high street, what should be done? If local authorities and

businesses and people are given power to drive their own destiny.

But at the moment it is far too centralised approach. Bring it to

local level and I am sure Mike will agree with me. I do agree, and it is