14/07/2013 Sunday Politics North West

All change at the birthplace of the NHS. And: The haves and have-nots of

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2223 seconds

EU funding - the losing councils Coming up in the North West.

The haves and have-nots of European Union funding - the losing councils

blame London not Brussels. This is a gerrymandering and the government

has stolen that money, perhaps because they have no MPs here, I'd

have given it to areas where they do have some representation.

And joining us this week, UKIP's deputy leader and North West Euro

MP, Paul Nuttall, and the Conservative MP for Warrington

South, David Mowat. And we start with Trafford General Hospital,

widely regarded as the birthplace of the NHS. This week the Health

Secretary Jeremy Hunt finally confirmed plans for a reorganisation

that includes the downgrade of Accident and Emeregency.

National clinical advisory team of independent health professionals has

advised me that there will be clinical and safety issues if the

hospital continues practising as it currently does, and I accept their

advice. What do you make of this, Paul? It is a decision based on

economic grounds. There are only six to 12 people who use it between the

hours of three and 12pm, and quite frankly, this is basically down to

economics and it is not viable to keep it open. Do you agree with

this, David? I do agree with that, the Secretary of State said this was

a clinical decision, not driven by money. Two people per hour going

into an a in the service when there is another 110 minutes away is not

an effective service. -- when there is another AMD service ten minutes

away. Both of you thought this was the right decision, this is what

opponents thought. There might be excellently in the department in the

surrounding area, but the fact is that these EMTs are struggling to

cope. You'll Mac years after Nye Bevan opens the NHS at this hospital

we have this Secretary of State rushing out an announcement without

the scrutiny of local MPs about eight major downgrade of the

hospital. David Uber not in favour of merging hospitals. This was not

proposed in Warrington. I am just looking at Andy Burnham there, he

cannot seriously be of the view that the NHS is a static thing that can

never be changed, and anything that anyone comes up with a relatively

small configuration to make clinical outcomes better, that means less

people dying, it cannot be immediately against it as he

appears. Paul, UKIP's health policy, and you are the fundamental

reorganisation. We want to streamline it. We were oppose any

change to the NHS which is selfish. They are bringing up there for our

children and grandchildren. What about your policy? We want to

streamline the NHS. Would you reduce funding? Funding will have to be

reduced but in the end we will have to look at a different way of

funding health care in the 21st-century. We are getting older

and drugs are becoming more expensive. Labour wants to increase

funding by the NHS and the Conservatives have stuck to that

funding formula, you would reduce it? National debt has gone up. Each

household is �30,000 in debt. We must look at changes. It is the

fourth largest employer in the world. All is right, there are

issues in the NHS to do with an ageing population, direct response

is not to cut funding but to run it more efficiently and better.

Now, at a time when the government's encouraging schools to look after

themselves, one of our councils is urging them to work together to

raise standards. This week the former Labour Education Secretary

Baroness Morris has published a report into Liverpool's schools.

Among her ideas is a new local partnership to oversee the

Liverpool's own curriculum. Claire Hamilton reports. This is a

Liverpool success story. In urban school where reading ability exceeds

national standards. We have a passion for enabling children to

read well. We try to help families to read for pleasure together. We

have excellent resources. Sometimes when I feel bored or have nothing to

do, I get a book and set down. the stingiest stinker who ever

lived. There are different varieties and I like books. The government

policy hasn't seen the implementation of the Free Schools.

According to this report, other pool schools are working more closely

than ever before. The advantage to schools in joining this partnership

includes working together to cut costs, raising money in a new

relationship with the council as part of the executive board. We can

work with schools already in academies, and work with schools who

are not to make sure we can all work together to deliver a better

standard for children in this city. It is thought that Liverpool is

among the first places in the country to develop this new model of

school cooperation. We are coming together to decide on what schools

want themselves with the local authority, not dictated by the local

authority. There are dangers of people viewing this partnership as

another level of authority and there are similarities, for example the

aisle looking at providing efficient services, they need to buy together

to make it more economic. Liverpool City Council hopes that this will

address a deep rooted problems that see too many children unable to be

when the primary school. And we're also joined now by the

author of that report - the former Education Secretary Estelle Morris.

First of all, if we look briefly at standards in Liverpool, one in five

seven to 11-year-olds do not meet national standards of reading. That

is not good enough, is it? No, it is not. The figures are about the

national average and if we compare them to the core cities, large

cities similar to Liverpool, the only at the top of that group. The

national average is not good enough. But it is much better than when

Liverpool was when I last worked with the city one decade ago. Let's

acknowledge that it paid tribute to the skills of the teachers and

school leaders who have brought that about. You were schools minister and

they were always -- almost brought into special measures. Improvements

have been made. This is the feeling that I have gone from Oracle in the

past year, being the national average is not what people in

Liverpool want to settle for. They want to be higher than the national

average by as much as the can. We do not want any child leaving school

without the ability to read. will your recommendations improve

this? The things that mean the difference in the quality of

teaching in the classroom. We have many good schools in the city, but

standards of teaching could still get higher and schools can support

one another. What can we learn about from -- what can we learn about what

works elsewhere? We have seen good practice from within the city and

outside of the city which we hope to bring home so every school and

experience it. It is not only the teachers, and one of the things that

I have been thrilled about is the eagerness and willingness of

people, not just teachers and mums and dads to play their part, and we

would like to make Liverpool the same year reading city, and that

would be an opportunity for a free city to children read. What about

your idea about the Liverpool learning partnership? What is the

difference between that and the local education authority? A lot of

deference. It is a different organisation, there is a move at the

moment for schools to be independent and work for themselves. That is a

good thing, head teachers must be free to make decisions. If you look

at how Liverpool has improved over the past ten years it is by working

together. We do not want to lose that sense of partnership, every

school once the best for their own children, that is their job. I have

not met a teacher in the city that does not want the best for all

Liverpool children. That is at the core of the Liverpool learning

partnership. Doing the best for the children in your school but sharing

responsibility for all Liverpool children. Just the tiny correction

with your introduction, in my commission I have been the chairman

of a number of commissions and I have been very eager to take this

Liverpool learning partnership and put it at the centre of our

recommendations but it has already been put in place and is being

driven very much by head teachers and teachers in the city. They will

drive it and that is why it will be a success. I take your point there.

All, what do you make of this? all sounds like apple pie to me.

There are certain parts of the report that I quite like, and I

think that Michael Gove is going in the right direction and his ideas

for a new national curriculum are very good indeed. That will be the

drive that will get children learning. New Labour wants to go

further. New Labour had this literacy hour, which I remember, but

obviously it has not worked because we own and end the situation...

have gone well past that and are talking about where we go from here.

The problem we have in this country is that we must go back to academic

selection, down the line, it cannot be right that the top eight schools

in Britain send more children to Oxford and Cambridge than the Autumn

2000 schools put together. Grammar schools? I would like to see a

grammar school in every single time, to give children the opportunity to

better themselves. David?Back to still's model, it seems to me that

provided this does not introduce a level of bureaucracy that sucks

resources out of schools, because what kids need is more teachers and

not less. Divided we are not putting something into place that does not

undermine that and does not take away the headmaster's accountability

to standard in his own school, I have no problem with that. The

really key thing is that we need more teachers and not less and less

must not result in more teachers -- must not result in less teachers.

This goes against government policy? Government policy is to make

headteachers accountable and to give them the risk -- give them the

resort is to change things. Take the resources within the local education

authorities and give the schools the ability to have more teachers. It is

teachers that increase standards and if this proposal is against that I

would have difficulty seeing how it would work. What matters is

teachers. Is Dell, let me come back to you, what do you make of David's

warning that this could lead to more bureaucracy? I take the point but I

do not think it will. We will have to keep our eye on that,

headteachers can join this if they want to do, the decision will be

theirs. They will still get all of the devolved budget that the

well-known. No one wants to take away from the headteacher's rates to

run the own school, but every school needs to be challenged. We need our

teachers to work with schools that are not as good to raise the

standards. This will be the key thing in the partnership. I believe

it will offer the finest quality of support that Liverpool schools have

ever had. We will raise the standards of school leadership and

teaching. I have no shadow of a doubt that this will not work for --

that if this does not work for school teachers in Liverpool then it

is entirely up to them. I am confident. Estelle Morris, thank you

very much. Now, Liverpool's Echo Arena, airport

and Capital of Culture programme all benefited from European cash. But

this year the British government has changed the system. Rather than

poorer areas getting priority, it's being shared out across all of

England's Local Enterprise Partnerships which look after local

economies. It means some places have done better than ever before, while

places like Merseyside have lost out. Here's Stuart Pollitt. European

money it may be. But how it's spent has become a domestic political

money has changed Liverpool's landscape. This building was built

six years ago, what has the impact been? It has made is competitive in

the global environment. Liverpool 's School of tropical medicine has

taken in �9 million of the money. use the money to move to the

building next door and attracted the brightest minds to this region. We

have been in this building around six years and in that six years we

have doubled funding. The tentacles of European investment spread right

across Liverpool for almost 15 million for the capital of culture,

to around 50 million for the Echo Arena development here on the

waterfront. There are concerns that the money from Brussels is no more

of a track of any flood. We have had two floods -- two thirds cut from

our last financial programme. That is around �150 million lost to the

region. This is because the EU used to distribute the money directly to

reasons like Liverpool. government has decided to share the

money around through local enterprise partnerships. Not

everyone finds this palatable. You only need to travel 50 miles to

Warrington to discover that. Cheshire and Warrington will note

received more money than other parts of the North West. They are likely

to get a per person, congrats to 147 in Liverpool and hundred and 45 in

Manchester. Lancashire and Cumbria do better with �182 per head.

miles from Liverpool we have some serious deprivation. In Warrington

they are spending the money on this giant industrial estate. What do you

say to those people who say that Warrington and Cheshire are

prosperous and do not need the money? The Mac if you want

sustainable growth to drive the country out of recession then the

best place to put a limited amount of money is in places like Cheshire

and Warrington. It is clear that this is regeneration money and you

do not need to give regeneration money to areas with a booming or

well founded economy. This is a gerrymandering of a scheme meant to

assist areas like Liverpool and the government have stolen that money.

The prime minister defended the decision in the Commons. We have

done a very fair assessment not only between the regions in the United

Kingdom but between the nations of the United Kingdom about how to

distribute this money and we have done it any fairway. European money

this may be, but how it is spent as now become a very domestic political

spat. Paul, are you disappointed that

Merseysiders getting less? Let me say that there is no such thing as

you money. We give them �53 per day and they give us half back and tell

us how to spend it. What has happened is that the EU has given us

have our money back in the government has decided that it

should not be going to Liverpool, but to Wales, Northern Ireland and

Scotland. I especially think that maybe with the Scottish element that

has to do with the independence referendum. So you are disappointed

with the distribution? I am disappointed we get money to the

European Union at all. Do you think the government would spend this

money on places like Liverpool as it did not go to Europe? That would be

down to the democratically elected people in Westminster. This would be

down to the MPs in Westminster and you do not have confidence in them?

If you do not like what the government does you can vote them

out of -- after five years, you cannot do this with the European

commission. You would be happy to stop the money going to Europe in

the money going to Europe and he would put your faith in the

government to put the rigid -- to PDB generation money to Merseyside.

I would prefer everyone's taxes were spent in this country and the vast

majority of funding goes to the sub editing in state and specifically

Eastern Europe. It is our money and it should stay here. David, the

argument about the current system is that it is not fair. I agree with

Paul, it is not like this allocation is done by the EU. We could be doing

this ourselves. Would we do it ourselves? That is the point I am

making. At the money was not going to Brussels, we would not be

spending it. That is not true, let's go back to the Merseyside issue.

Liverpool has had less money in this six-year period and that is true.

The last time, Liverpool was a Q1 region it was one of the most

deprived parts of Europe with a large amount of money given to it in

the first three years. The biggest amount of money was in 2009 /2000 --

2010, when the money was reduced by two thirds. We are increasing the

money. This is the complex subject and we have made it more simple than

it is. Liverpool is well funded. Things will get worse. I have no

sympathy for Joe Anderson or the Lib Dems in Liverpool because quite

frankly, or the Tories because there are none, but the political parties

and support the expansion of the EU into Turkey, Cameron even spoke

about taking the EU as far as the corals, and this means that border

counties will fall under the EU. This is about funding in Liverpool,

not Turkey. What I would say is that Liverpool has just received �75

million of new money under the city deals programme, a devolution of

money that was spent in Whitehall before. At the men under this

government because we are determined to default money from London in the

centre to the cities. Let's stick with this for a second. Why is it

fair that there is more money going to wait ends in Cheshire and

Merseyside? It is slightly more and it is slightly more and letters to

do with the formula. There are deprived parts of Warrington and in

the past... There are more deprived part in Merseyside. In the past we

have had less money in Warrington than Merseyside, and this year

because of the formula that has come out higher. The real reason that

Liverpool has less than it did six years ago is that Liverpool's

economy has come on in leaps and bounds and we should be pleased

about that. Paul? Liverpool's economy is doing well, you have the

Liverpool one project that was financed independently. The fact of

the matter is that this is British taxpayers money. The �53 million per

day should stay in our country to be spent on schools and hospitals and

on transport networks, not being sent to Portugal, Greece, Spain and

wherever else, to be spent on ensuring that the farmers get to

keep... The money would not go to parts of the UK either. What do you

mean? The argument is that the British government would not be

spending this money themselves. They have other priorities, like paying

off the deficit. How do you know? Because of what the government said,

their priority is paid off the deficit. Paul is right, we put more

money into the EU that -- can we get out. It is time for the rest of the

week's news. The Attorney General referred Stuart

Hall's 15-month prison sentence for indecent assault to the court of

appeal. Dominic Grieve said he'd received complaints it was too

lenient. Getting RUFF justice - the lawyer known as Mr Loophole has

taken up a canine cause close to his heart. Nick Freeman has two himself

and says their reputation is unjustified. All they want to do is

let you to death, be with you and look after you. He loved being with

their families. Also coming in for criticism, but not in the firing

line yet, are seagulls - Environmental health officers in

Cumbria say complaints are on the up, but culling them isn't the

answer. A visitor centre opened at the Heysham Nuclear Power Station to

mark 30 years of service. The two reactors are due to be

decommissioned in 15 years' time. And the Manx government promised

�1.6 million to give Douglas promenade a lick of paint. It's part

of a four-year redevelopment. David, before we end, MPs salaries

have very much been in the news. Do you deserve a pay rise? Your Mac

whether we do or not, I do not think we should have won. If it does come

in I will give my proportion of it to a charity. Paul as they do get a