15/09/2013 Sunday Politics North West

after the summer recess, and the party conference season is already

Democrats. Have a great conference. Nick Clegg has some convincing to

do, according to our very own Sunday Politics poll, his troops don't

do, according to our very own Sunday his coalition bedmates. The latest

poll of the country also has the Lib Dems languishing behind UKIP in

Paddy Ashdown! So can the Lib Dems election in 2015? We will talking to

former leader, now the party's general election commander-in-chief,

And in the North West: Nick Clegg tells me how he aims to stop the rot

now heading for the exit. We will hear from Nick Clegg on what it

And freshly showered from the Great North Run and looking as fresh as

daisies, the best and brightest Janan Ganesh, Helen Lewis and Iain

Now, their leader is our Deputy Prime Minister. They are the junior

government. They like the colour yellow and they have not won a

general election since dinosaurs walked the earth. Now they are

behind UKIP in the polls, so as walked the earth. Now they are

party gathers for its annual bash this year in Glasgow, what is on

their mind? Who are the people gathering at the Clyde this weekend?

their mind? Who are the people Before they started drinking, we

councillors in England and Wales, comrade. The first question we asked

was, if the next election results in a hung parliament, which team would

you rather go into coalition with, the Reds or the blues? Lib Dem

councillors said Labour, two to the Reds or the blues? Lib Dem

Tories or Labour? It is not for the Reds or the blues? Lib Dem

to say. It is for the voters to say. We will decide depending on

is on the table. Who would you rather play table football against?

because I am winning. So in the winning 's which ones are heading

popular policy was a mansion tax on house is worth more than £2 million,

popular policy was a mansion tax on councillors. The next most popular

policy was scrapping the Trident nuclear deterrent, supported by

policy was scrapping the Trident of councillors. Then there was the

reinstatement of the 50p top rate of income tax. 70% of councillors like

the look of that. When it came to the idea of banning the burka in

public places like schools and airports, 45% of councillors were in

favour. Finally, a ban on topless Page three model is won the support

of 33% of councillors. Why is it so popular, the idea of a mansion tax?

It is a much fairer tax. We know there are people out there with

It is a much fairer tax. We know expensive houses. Which of these is

most important to you? Banning Trident. The cold war ended in

1989. Another one was the idea of banning the burka in public places.

whatever they like. If they want to banning the burka in public places.

wear the birth or a kilt or if they anything. We are the party of jobs.

Thank you. Last night, a fully clothed Nick Clegg rallied his

troops, but if he was not around, who would Lib Dem councillors want

instead? Business Secretary Vince Cable was most popular, with a third

of the votes. In second place, the party's president, Tim Farron, with

27%. 10% went to Danny Alexander, while the business minister Joe

Swinson received 7%. The Energy Secretary Ed Davey scooped 6%, and

in last place, Steve Webb, the pensions minister, who got 5%. If

any of these councillors want to talk to me about it, I would be

delighted to hear from them. Is talk to me about it, I would be

certainly isn't. What do you think contenders. But our survey is not

the only one that has got tongues wagging in Glasgow, because the

the only one that has got tongues Dem leadership have commissioned

their own poll which showed that 75% Dem leadership have commissioned

of the country will never vote Dem leadership have commissioned

the party, no matter what they do. Also meeting here this weekend,

the party, no matter what they do. Democrats like to think they have

got just as much va-va-voom, even if a big chunk of the country doesn't.

Add, back in his hometown. So, the Much of their party thinks they

Add, back in his hometown. So, the moving in the wrong direction.

Earlier, I spoke to former party moving in the wrong direction.

leader Paddy Ashdown. He has been put in charge of heading up the

leader Paddy Ashdown. He has been election campaign. I asked him if

the mood in Glasgow was grim. No. In many ways, as you know, Tory old

commentator that you are just as I am a hoary old member at the other

end of the camera, we have been midterm of a government, especially

when you are in government and the country is going for in a deep

economic crisis, has almost no relevance to where you might be

economic crisis, has almost no the nipple come to consider how

economic crisis, has almost no will vote in 600 days time -- when

the people come to consider how will vote in 600 days time -- when

will vote. We do not dismiss polls, but they are a snapshot of what

will vote. We do not dismiss polls, indication of where we will be.

will vote. We do not dismiss polls, guess is, for what it is worth,

will vote. We do not dismiss polls, as we come to the election, the

public will be in a very serious, probably frightened mood. Their

public will be in a very serious, thoughts will be, who maintains

public will be in a very serious, job, makes sure I don't have to

public will be in a very serious, to higher mortgage? The coalition

has delivered not only the required policies to make Britain's economy

prosperous, but also its society fair. That is what people will want

to see. I think coalition politics are here to stay and we have a role

to play in it. But you are in a are here to stay and we have a role

mood this morning. You tweeted that you were not happy with how the

Observer newspaper handled your there anything we can do to help?

There is probably something they arguments with the interview. The

headline they chose to put on it late last night was outrageous,

misrepresentative and in one case in Something about Ashdown wants a

coalition with the Tories, or at Something about Ashdown wants a

least they gave that in for us Something about Ashdown wants a

inference. Let me make this point. election. I am in charge of the

campaign. Any journalist who in these next two years says that any

Liberal Democrat prefers anything else in terms of the outcome of

Liberal Democrat prefers anything coalition but the result of the

ballot box dictating that outcome, that any prefer one side to another

coalition determined by the electors that any prefer one side to another

in the votes, will get a bloody that any prefer one side to another

time from me, no matter who they are. We take the warning. A survey

of Lib Dem councillors shows that in coalition with the Tories. That

of Lib Dem councillors shows that in clear sign that your activists want

a change of direction. I don't think it is news that as a left-wing

party, we find it more congenial with those on the left wing, but

that is not the issue. You saw it election. We are servants of the

ballot box. We do watch the British people require us to do to provide a

of our country. I am sure you have stable government in the interests

of our country. I am sure you have got the point by now. I have fought

the Tories all my life. But when responsibility to amend the economic

crisis, was this right for the determine who are going to be in any

coalition, should there be one, determine who are going to be in any

voters and nobody else. It is not about what we like. I understand

that. But your own internal polls leadership are not taking the party

with them on that. I don't think that is true. Nick Clegg has done

what no other party leader has done. He took the coalition agreement

what no other party leader has done. the party, and they voted for it. So

it is not true to say that members different direction. I think we

it is not true to say that members extraordinarily united. I did not

expect them to be so under these pressures, but they have surprised

me and made me joyful at the same time. The party has done what it

done in local government for a long time. We may have our private likes

and dislikes, but the thing that coalition is the ballot box. You

have said that three times. I can say it again if you like. Please

don't! What if your party votes say it again if you like. Please

reinstate tuition fees as party policy afternoon? We will have to

listen to that and act accordingly. You must listen to the voice of

listen to that and act accordingly. party and take it into account in

what you do. I am always quite answering hypothetical questions. I

don't think it is likely to happen, but if it did, we would have to

don't think it is likely to happen, distinguished Lib Dems was that

don't think it is likely to happen, your party conference voted for

something, it was in the manifesto. The manifesto is taken in its final

form before the party for decision. The party will express views at

form before the party for decision. stage in all sorts of ways. It did

in my leadership, too. The manifesto is democratically agreed by the

party at the time of the election, not before. The Tory conference

party at the time of the election, be about how they think they have

been vindicated, that austerity be about how they think they have

worked, the economy is turning a corner. But Nick Clegg's conference

announcements will be about plastic bags. Have you got the hang of this

coalition think? Andrew, you can always be guaranteed to put things

in the most discreditable form! always be guaranteed to put things

is part of your charm. That was about to be a minor announcement in

discovered beforehand. It has not the middle of his speech. But it was

discovered beforehand. It has not been very popular in terms of how it

has been received, but that is not the central message. That leads

has been received, but that is not to what I think is the biggest

election. Isn't the biggest danger that the Tories, not you, if there

is an economic recovery, they will get the credit for it? I don't think

think the electorate does gratitude. The only time people cast a thank

Thatcher over the sale of council houses. We could have a different

discussion over whether that was a good idea. But what you have done is

the underpinning for the promise of government, we have stayed firm

the underpinning for the promise of very tough economic policy. But

the underpinning for the promise of you get the credit? What we have

done by ourselves, which the Tories would never have done, is make sure

that when the pain is felt, it is not the poor who feel it. We have

seen the biggest shift of taxation, lifting the poorest in the country

out of taxation, that has ever happened, including in the previous

Labour government. You are presiding over the biggest squeeze on living

standards in modern times. Because it is the biggest recession in

modern times. When you speak to it is the biggest recession in

2.5 million people who have been lifted out of taxation altogether

because of the Liberal Democrats, tax cut. You may be able to make the

because of the Liberal Democrats, connection, Andrew, you are a sharp

economic crisis and difficulty for everybody. But it is clear that

economic crisis and difficulty for the Tories had been by themselves,

none of that would have happened. We have sought to shift the burden

none of that would have happened. We from the poorest in this country. I

am part of that. So when we go into the next election, the message will

am part of that. So when we go into be that if you want to continue

am part of that. So when we go into have a prosperous economy and a

society, only the Liberal Democrats will deliver that. Tim Farron says

want to diss him. Can you confirm he likes Ed Miliband and he does not

want to diss him. Can you confirm that there will be no dissing of Ed

Miliband? It is not much my style. I've never much liked comments about

the other leaders. I do not intend to make it so in the future. Can I'd

finish up on Syria? You said after the Syria vote that Britain was

finish up on Syria? You said after hugely diminished country. Given it

both sides on a course which could now see Syria give up chemical

weapons without records to military action, would you like to withdraw

these remarks and admit that you should be proud and happy with what

Britain has done? No. You and I should be proud and happy with what

know, because we are old observers, that that would never have happened

underpinning of a threat to use that that would never have happened

underpinning of a threat to use resigned from that. We have no part

to play in the fact that Assad and Putin have moved towards peace for

to play in the fact that Assad and fear of military action. We decided

exactly the opposite. Why would fear of military action. We decided

liked to have seen our country join in with those who are serious about

upholding an international law which has restrained even than axes and

left others to make sure that we talent, but instead we resigned

left others to make sure that we moved towards peace. -- even the

Maxis and Stalin. But if it had moved towards peace. -- even the

would not have had the time to allow this to happen. It has avoided war.

Job done, British Parliament. That would be true if it was accurate but

it is not. The resolution proposed a delay, that we should wait until the

inspectors came back. That time frame was absolutely nothing to

inspectors came back. That time with the parliamentary vote. The

vote was going to incorporate that. I do not think you can claim what

vote was going to incorporate that. remember that diplomacy, which was

not reinforced by the threat of military action, does not work.

not reinforced by the threat of is when diplomacy runs with a grain

of military action that it works. illustration of that, look at what

is happening over the last two weeks. By regret to say that our

country, which has always been in disengagement, had no part to play

And you we would get to the Balkans eventually, and we did. His biggest

challenge is if the economy is get some credit for the Lib Dems,

when the Tories will want to halt it all. But his position is not to

when the Tories will want to halt it the necessary axeman. That is George

Osborne's role. Their role is to be Osborne's role. Their role is to be

the chaser party, taking the edge off. They will because of me going

on about the pupil premium and That is what you will hear from

of the cuts. Will that work? They them, how they have taken the edge

of the cuts. Will that work? They are in a pretty good position. Even

if they have lost two thirds of are in a pretty good position. Even

popular support, according to the polls, I do not know anyone in

Westminster methinks that will be matched in their parliamentary

representation. If they have 56 matched in their parliamentary

now, they might lose a dozen but Strategically, they are in a better

position than the reading of the polls would tell you. I think Nick

Clegg's survival has been one of the stories of this Parliament. He is

looking good at the comfort -- at the conference. When he was at his

lowest after the AV referendum, people were saying he would survive

I thought that was fanciful. Believe and lead us into 2015 and beyond and

I thought that was fanciful. Believe it or not... Paddy Ashdown was

wrong, you were wrong and... I wasn't. I'm underestimated how bad

his rivals are. If you are Lib Dem member, however aggrieved you are

with Nick Clegg, you do not think, wouldn't it be great if Christian

was in charge? Nick Clegg is the best they have. -- Chris Huhne was

in charge. Of course, the people do in charge. Of course, the people do

government and it is a consequence of the way they vote, a different

matter. If Janan Ganesh is right, and they lose 15 seats in the next

pivotal in the next government. It Possibly the most amusing outcome

would be a Labour or Tory overall majority, which would be hilarious

for the look on Paddy Ashdown's face. The danger is they get trapped

constantly in talking about the politics of coalition and of a hung

parliament. And they are very puffed politics of coalition and of a hung

parliament. And they are very puffed up and they enjoy Parliament and

there is a possibility they will not be. While they are talking about the

Polish and themselves, they are be. While they are talking about the

talking about the issues facing be. While they are talking about the

coalition. It was interesting that he said that we are a left-wing

party, not a centre-left party or a centre party, but a left-wing party.

I'm going to put myself in the firing line and say that there is a

big split between the Tim Farron line who say they like Ed Miliband,

and another one, Jeremy Browne in the Home Office saying that Labour

are intellectually lazy. The risk clearly a clique around Nick Clegg

who wants to be a synthetic party, but that is not where the membership

who wants to be a synthetic party, activists are clearly of the left,

not just the centre-left. They are very pro-immigration and they want

strategy has to be to take the party to the centre. The something not

happen at some stage? The poll suggests it is a left-wing party.

happen at some stage? The poll Very left-wing. Other think the

happen at some stage? The poll would have yielded -- would have

yielded the same results before would have yielded -- would have

2010 election. This is reflected by the arithmetic. Whichever party

2010 election. This is reflected by biggest will most likely be the

2010 election. This is reflected by in coalition with the Lib Dems.

2010 election. This is reflected by Clegg's on latitude to choose is

exaggerated by us. The choice is no parliamentary arithmetic. But if you

remember the structure of the Lib Dems, they can tie themselves up in

infighting. -- the choice is not stable. And Nick Clegg has had a

good conference last year, and will have another one this year. The

economy is better than it was a have another one this year. The

ago. It could still go quite well for him. Yes, it is one of the

ago. It could still go quite well stories of this Parliament, his

survival and the way in which he has prospered. But there are a lot of

campaigners, labour activists who have not forgotten what he has done

in government and are determined to get him. It will be a tough year and

a half. Tougher than he imagined. Now, not so long ago they were

writing George Osborne's political obituary. Be on the Omni shambles

budget of 2012 and a lacklustre performance of the British economy

meant his reputation work -- was in the dirt. -- the omnishambles. But

things have changed. The Chancellor is saying he has been vindicated. If

runway, it looks as though the British economy has taken off,

quarter. Forecasts for the rest British economy has taken off,

the year have been revised up words. What's more, the office for National

recession never actually happened. Unemployment is down in the three

months to July and the number of spasticity rate since 1997. On

Monday, George Osborne said his policies were bearing fruit. We

Monday, George Osborne said his our nerve when many told us to

abandon our plans. As a result, thanks to the efforts and sacrifices

of the British people, Britain is turning a corner. The message for

his Labour critics was clear. The Chancellor thinks he was right and

Good afternoon. Good afternoon.Do you accept that the economy has

turned a corner? I think it is good that a stalled recovery appears

turned a corner? I think it is good get this in perspective. We have had

three wasted years. We have the worst economic recovery in history.

Debt is up and we have record youth programme if they feel better or

worse off, compared to 2010, the majority will tell you they feel

worse because, on average, wages are down by £1500 compared to May of

2010. That is the situation. The one of the things we have seen

talked about, Vince Cable has been talking about this as well, is what

is happening in the housing market. It seems that much of the solution

to powering the recovery in the It seems that much of the solution

of George Osborne lies in sorting out the housing market but the

problem is, we are at risk of being another housing bubble. Because

problem is, we are at risk of being research that came out this week, we

know that housing in the UK is three times more expensive than in the US.

know that housing in the UK is three We know that house prices are rising

five times faster than wages, but we also know that the government is

five times faster than wages, but we building new housing at a slower

rate, the slowest rate that we have complaining about a housing bubble,

isn't that like Satan complaining about seven? -- seven. We all know

that we cannot go back to business as usual. We need to build a new

model of growth. But the housing bubble you talk about, it is not a

bubble. It might turn into one. bubble you talk about, it is not a

said the risk of a bubble. It is nothing like what happened on the

I said, in 2009, we had the crash and we knew we needed to reconfigure

the way that our economy works. Having an economy based on crisis is

rebalance the economy. We saw the unemployment statistics this week,

and it is welcomed overall, that unemployment has come down. At half

up. And it went down in other parts. We know that we need to rebalance

our economy, so that we do not just rely on consumption, but that we

grow our productive sectors. And also that we grow our exports as

well. We know we have a continuing deficit. We always have a trade

deficit. There was never a trade surplus under Labour. Want to come

onto what you have mentioned but would you scrap the help to buy

scheme? We have not said that we would you scrap the help to buy

scheme? We have not said that we would do that. Why not if it is

causing the bubble? If you let me finish, on one hand what that scheme

does at the moment, at the moment it is inhalation to a new scheme but

tomorrow -- next year it will be in you do not sort out the supply of

housing, then that is a recipe for the problems we have seen. Our

argument is build more houses. Help more people to buy them by all means

but if you do not have the supply more people to buy them by all means

but if you do not have the supply you will end up with rising prices.

That is obvious. Labour said that government austerity would prevent

the return of growth. Austerity government austerity would prevent

were wrong. We never said that growth would never return. What

were wrong. We never said that said was that if you went for an

were wrong. We never said that overly extreme deficit reduction

recovery and you would choke growth. That is what we saw for three years.

If you say, look at the US economy, it has grown at three times the

If you say, look at the US economy, economy has grown at twice the rate.

But the British economy is growing quicker than the American or German

economy is now. But over time we have not seen that happen. But it is

now. That may be the case. But my point is that those three years

now. That may be the case. But my people undergoing huge stress and

worry. It is good that we have growth back again but the question

is, what kind of growth? What we have said... I'm going to come onto

that but your credibility depends on your previous analysis. And there

are doubts about it. This is what you said not that long ago. In

You and the Labour Party said it had choked off growth. You were wrong.

We were not wrong, because we had three years where the economy was

not moving. Let's remind ourselves. Claude Osborne was predicting that

the economy was going to grow by 6.9% between the start of this

Parliament and now. It has grown by 1.8%. We did not say we would never

have a return to growth. You never said that austerity would only

temporarily delay growth. We have looked through your speeches and Ed

Balls'. We can't find any reference to say this is simply delaying the

recovery. You said austerity would choke off growth. If that is true,

why has it returned now? Did we choke off growth. If that is true,

it would choke off growth for ever? choke off growth. If that is true,

We did not. You have changed your tune. I think your package at the

top of this programme, to frame tune. I think your package at the

around George Osborne, this is not a people's lives, and the people who

deserve huge credit for the growth we are seeing are our country's

businesses, who despite the tough economic times, have succeeded.

businesses, who despite the tough are the ones who have powered this

Westminster to take credit. But are the ones who have powered this

blame the government for lack of growth. So therefore, when the

growth comes, the government has to situation Britain is in now. We

growth comes, the government has to the recovery still has to reach

growth comes, the government has to parts of the country, but this is

the OECD annualised growth in the G-7, the world's guest economies.

That is looking pretty healthy. G-7, the world's guest economies.

is a recovery. I am not denying G-7, the world's guest economies.

we are seeing a stalled recovery, but who benefits from the growth? On

average, your viewers have sustained a £1500 pay cut. That is the second

biggest fall in the G20 since May 2010. Because we had the biggest

financial services sector and took services are still in decline.

the economy. They are not the only contributor to the economy. The

point is, who benefits? Unemployment is falling, but we don't just want

people to have any job, we want is falling, but we don't just want

to have decent jobs that pay a weight you can live off and that are

more secure. Let me show you the unemployment figures. Your criticism

has been that all the new jobs are part-time. They are not now, they

employment, up 94,000. This is a short time frame. It is since the

recovery began. Half the jobs that have been part-time jobs. Roughly

who would like to work full-time. Over the last 20 years, people now

feel more insecure at work than ever. The question is about what

feel more insecure at work than kind of growth and employment you

are getting. The other point is kind of growth and employment you

uneven spread of this across our north-east and north-west, the

Humber, the east of England, they agree that there was a regional

imbalance, but the service sector is growing, cheering and construction

are growing and financial services are in decline, so the rebalance is

happening. It is not happening to the degree we need to transform

happening. It is not happening to long-term, sustainable model of

comprehensive industrial strategy towards. Your party conference is

coming up. I am sure you are looking forward to it. Why do Ed Miliband's

people see of him? I don't accept approval ratings get worse the more

people see of him? I don't accept that. I have given you the figures.

Polls go up and down. I have said that on this programme before. But

his approval rating has consistently gone down. What actually matters our

leadership, the Labour Party have gone down. What actually matters our

put on almost 2000 extra councillors in places like Canada case, even

Whitney. What is wrong with Whitney? We have been putting on votes. Let

me show you this. This is the net satisfaction rating. Your leader is

now more unpopular than Gordon Brown was when he took Labour to the worst

defeat in living memory. Gordon Brown did not put on anything like

this number of councillors. Votes are what matter, Andrew. Few people

think Ed Miliband is a capable leader. Twice as many people think

over Spurs who lives on the moon. These are polls. If you are talking

to me about over Spurs lit, that puts this into context, Europe

Presley. Since 2010, we have put on thousands of members. Compare that

to the Conservative Party, which has not won a general election since

1992. They will not disclose their membership figures. Why -- why won't

you pledge to renationalise Royal Mail? Because that would be like

writing a blank cheque. We don't know at the moment how much the

government would receive for the sale of Royal Mail? So how can I

judge how much it would cost to sale of Royal Mail? So how can I

irresponsible. But the government does not need to do this right now.

The entire country is against it. Sources in the City and Whitehall

tell me that if Labour pledged to renationalise it, it would kill

tell me that if Labour pledged to the flotation. So if you are against

it, why don't you do it? For me the flotation. So if you are against

pledge to renationalise Royal Mail cheque. But if you put it in the

prospectus, people in the City, cheque. But if you put it in the

know more about these things, say it would not happen, so why not do

know more about these things, say it Because that would be irresponsible.

It would be like writing a cheque for billions to renationalise Royal

Mail. You would not have too right at the check if it did not happen. I

have to deal with the facts. I am not good deal with the plot somebody

might be speculating about in the City. We have to be careful about

renationalise it now would be like writing a bank cheque . We are going

government. That is why I am not prepared to do that. Ed Balls will

not be talking to you. You are watching the Sunday Politics. Coming

I'm Arif Ansari. Coming up in the North West: Nick Clegg on stopping

councillors on why she ditched him for Labour. We have reached a point

Welcome back. You can tell Summer's over when the Liberal Democrats

start gathering. My interview with Nick Clegg later. Joining me in

start gathering. My interview with studio, Jo Crotty, who chairs the

regional party and the head of Russell. And from the conference in

Andrew Stunell. But let's start Russell. And from the conference in

the Ribble Valley MP Nigel Evans who resigned this week as Deputy Speaker

of the Commons after being charged with eight sex offences including

rape. He denies the charges and with eight sex offences including

independent. What do you make of his political position now? It is a

difficult personal position. He political position now? It is a

to resign as the deputy speaker political position now? It is a

Conservative whip. He did talk in the Commons about being inside

Westminster. Do you think he can continue as an independent MP to the

general election? Whilst the legal course runs its course but there are

things like selection for the next general election coming up and the

local party may take a view on that. Let's have a listen to part of his

personal statement to the Commons. Winston Churchill said, when you are

going through hell, keep going. Winston Churchill said, when you are

advice. So I will see this through to the end. With the support of

advice. So I will see this through people who mean so much to me. I am

proud to serve the people of the Ribble Valley. The best tribute

proud to serve the people of the can give them now is to get on with

the job that they sent me here to do. Thank you. Andrew Stunell,

clearly a lot of support from Nigel Evans in the House of Commons but

uncomfortable that he seemed to Evans in the House of Commons but

using the House of Commons almost to mount his defence. What did you

think of it? The first thing I would do is to agree with the other Andrew

on the programme and say Nigel Evans has been a good deputy speaker and

is a popular member of the house. I don't want to comment on any of

is a popular member of the house. I charges he faces nor the likely

outcome of any court hearings that follow. I think he did what he

thought was right for himself and for his constituency. Looking ahead,

it is very much a matter of wait and proceedings are. Every member is

entitled to make a statement to proceedings are. Every member is

position in relation to the house if they think they need to. The speaker

would never deny it and members would never refuse to hear a member

who made a personal statement. There is a long—standing tradition which

goes back several hundred years is a long—standing tradition which

members doing that. If by no means indicates that his popular support

for an understatement so much as respect for a member 's decision to

make such a statement. Jo Crotty, in terms of the Liberal Democrat party,

what are you hoping is going to terms of the Liberal Democrat party,

out of this conference? We come together in a confident mood after

holding Eastleigh earlier in the year. I think we have got some

strong messages coming out in terms taxation. We are trying to push

forward an idea that we want to taxation. We are trying to push

everybody who is earning the minimum wage —— wage out of tax. We are

moving forward and starting to set Back to the Lib Dems and their

The six MPs will be defending seats at the next general election. Three

of them could go with a swing of grassroots where you can see the

real cost of being in government. Three years ago they were more than

400 Lib Dem councillors in the region but that is now down to less

than 230. In Liverpool the party had 47 councillors five years ago and

controlled the authority. This year that figure dropped to just nine.

Well, that figure in Liverpool slipped to nine earlier this year

when one councillor, Rosie Jolley, defected to Labour. Our reporter,

Councillor Jolley to find out why she'd swapped yellow for red. The UK

nomination to be capital of culture From leading Liverpool ties to the

lows of their former leader being defeated by a teenager. Liverpool 's

Liberal Democrats are becoming an endangered species. We have reached

the point where I just could not be Liberal Democrat any longer. The

welfare reforms and things like Liberal Democrat any longer. The

bedroom tax which we have an impact on vulnerable people in this city

was one policy too far. Liverpool 's Liberal Democrats have seen the

numbers plummet since the glory Liberal Democrats have seen the

of leading the city 's capital of culture celebrations but here in

Manchester is a similar story with all nine Lib Dems up for election

this May. People are responding well. People are coming on board to

help us in a way we have not seen for a couple of years. I really

think that is a strong prospect for a couple of years. I really

will turn the corner. MP John Leech believes his motion to conference

government welfare reforms will believes his motion to conference

changes have worked. It has led believes his motion to conference

hardship for a number of people believes his motion to conference

I would like to see those changes reversed. There is a motion to

conference and I have signed up reversed. There is a motion to

support of that motion to get rid of the housing benefit changes but

we'll have to wait and see what the housing benefit changes but

party decides. The Liberal Democrats in the Northwest say they are far

from a spent force and will prove How much sympathy do you have for

people like Rosie Jolley? I know that personally and she is a great

counsellor. I am disappointed. We coalition because of the state of

the economy and we needed to say we can step up. But of course in trying

to correct the economy we were always going to have to make some

very difficult decisions. If you didn't address some of the big

ticket items like welfare we were never ever going to get out of the

whole. Is she wrong to not stick the course and go with it or do you

whole. Is she wrong to not stick the sympathy that actually she is saying

don't have sympathy for her in that sense. As a coalition, we have tried

to set out a clear direction that welfare is there and it is a safety

net that everyone who needs it. welfare is there and it is a safety

it should never pay more than work. We have done a lot of restructuring

to say those of us who go out to work and pay our taxes actually

to say those of us who go out to in a position where we have made a

choice and people not working at earning more than that and people

are seeing the disparities between them. Why are people leaving the

party? 2013 has been a good year for the Lib Dems. But the interesting

thing is not really what happens in conference because that is about the

faithful it is about how they talk to the country at large. Those

people who are leaving the party. That is different. The party is

people who are leaving the party. confident amongst themselves but it

is about expressing that confidence on a wider canvas. Isn't the problem

for your party for people like Rosie Jolley, that you are supporting

things like changes to housing benefit and lots of your members

think it is unfair? We set out to make sure that whilst we were going

to take some very tough decisions, but we're going to protect the most

vulnerable. What we want to do is make sure the welfare reforms and

the rise in pensions and the tax rise which has taken no pay out

the rise in pensions and the tax tax, they are all designed to make

sure the most vulnerable in society are protected. John Leech is one of

those who is supporting that motion to water down the bedroom tax. He

believes it is unfair. John and to water down the bedroom tax. He

don't agree about everything and what I would say is when conference

decides, the core point you is that if you are having to borrow £1 in

four which is what we were doing, something has to give. That is

tough. We have had to put higher taxes on the rich, takes drastic

quite the way through we have kept to a basic theme. We have got more

council houses going up than Labour ever had, we have got higher pension

rises, we have got the tax threshold rises for the low—paid which has

taken 2 million people out of tax altogether. If you are not worried

that you have alienated a large number of people —— are you not

worried? The reality is we have number of people —— are you not

tackle the tremendous problems we inherited. That is why we went into

government. We are making sure that vulnerable. Today we are debating

further education and we are on vulnerable. Today we are debating

vulnerable in society are protected. Is the party drifting to the right?

The problem is about management Is the party drifting to the right?

communication. The party is often drifting. The problem is it is on

government. The message is quite nuanced. They are talking to that ——

about the difference is they are making to the coalition rather than

fresh items on the menu. That means protest votes are harder to come by.

Well, it wasn't a bad Summer for Nick Clegg. Colleagues didn't queue

up to attack his leadership and Nick Clegg. Colleagues didn't queue

wasn't photographed in a Mickey certainly been a difficult few

years. I asked the Lib Dem Leader if he can stop the rot in places like

Manchester. Of course we can. We actually have succeeded already

Manchester. Of course we can. We by—elections. We won a by—election

in the Ribble Valley just recently. We have been winning hands down

in the Ribble Valley just recently. the Lake District. We are winning

way we are able to get out on the doorstep. In my own constituency, we

predicted we would lose and we doubled our majority. We tend to win

where we are able to get out on doubled our majority. We tend to win

doorstep and explain that it is because of the Liberal Democrats

that the state pension has gone because of the Liberal Democrats

But I am talking about the overall trend over the last few years. This

year we had elections in Lancashire county council and I am not even

Have you given up on the Northwest in terms of your electoral ability

via? Of course not. We have some great figures in the Northwest.

via? Of course not. We have some have excellent politicians. We will

speak up for the Northwest as we do for the country as a whole. I'd

speak up for the Northwest as we do any political party you invest a lot

of time in places where you feel you can get your message across. If

of time in places where you feel you look at what is happening in British

politics now, the Labour Party is being pulled to the left and you

have the Tory party being pulled to the right. The Liberal Democrats are

the only party committed to both things. Councillor Rosie Jolley

defected to Labour on Liverpool things. Councillor Rosie Jolley

statement. I don't think the Liberal Democrats have been challenging

enough towards the Conservatives on key policies like benefits and the

bedroom tax. In other words a lot of your supporters don't think you

bedroom tax. In other words a lot of that was the case, many more people

happened. It has.The party has remained united and resilient.

Conservatives were in government on situation where employees could

Conservatives were in government on fired at will. You'd have profits

being made in state schools. We fired at will. You'd have profits

that. You would have regional pay so that teachers and nurses in the

Northwest would be paid less than teachers and nurses elsewhere. I

stop that. There are so many things with the Liberal Democrats stand at

the fairness. We do the difficult job of protecting the economy. I

understand people might not like it and some people might disagree but

Democrats believe what we're doing And we will have interviews with the

other main party leaders over the next couple of weeks. How damaged is

the Liberal Democrats as a regional force? You cannot lose councillors

without losing some of that base but I know that our six MPs are some of

the scrappy as campaigners in the region. I am confident that in

the scrappy as campaigners in the months time or six will be returned

to the House of Commons. But you have lost people who are willing to

go out knocking on doors. The first two years after the general election

were to —— were very difficult. two years after the general election

we are now reaching out to different people. That is a hard—core of

people in the country and the region who respond to a liberal message. A

message that says we want a fairer society and a strong economy. There

is a group of people that respond to that message and I think we have

leadership in London worry about what's happening in places like

leadership in London worry about Northwest? We're working very hard

in the Northwest. In Hazel Grove we have knocked on more doors in the

last 12 months than we have in any We're not having any difficulty

getting our message across and getting people signing to help us.

But you have lost almost all of getting people signing to help us.

councillors on Manchester City Council. And Liverpool City Council.

And in Stockport and Hazel Grove. You can always find examples. Nick

Clegg acknowledged that we have You can always find examples. Nick

some damaged then to us. —— damage done to us. As you heard from the

they have had the same experience as us. People are beginning to see

they have had the same experience as the economy is turning around. They

are beginning to see that what we have been saying about protecting

the most vulnerable and making sure that children who need the support

in schools are getting the pupil premium, that pensioners who need

the support and getting it in the state pension, that low—paid workers

are getting the support they need in the raising of the tax threshold. I

have heard the same message for the raising of the tax threshold. I

last few years that people are beginning to realise that things are

getting better but what can the party specifically do to turn things

around? The Lib Dems have been bleeding away so 2013 leaves them

more confident than they were in the last two years. But they were not

any big elections for Manchester Liverpool this year. They will be

next year. Apart from the police and crime commissioners. The European

elections are going to be massive for the Lib Dems. Looking at how the

Lib Dems differentiate themselves within government and if you look in

our region it is interesting to within government and if you look in

how the party plays against the other two parties. People don't

parties ask about the Lib Dems. Do you foresee any possibility of

changing leader before the general election? Absolutely not. There

changing leader before the general no conspiracy. You always ask me

that that conference time! I am no conspiracy. You always ask me

looking for options for you! Thanks Time for a round—up of the rest

looking for options for you! Thanks the week's news now. Here's Euan

Was Cyril Smith too big to bring to justice? Fresh evidence this week

that MI5 helped cover—up allegations of sex abuse against the former

Liberal MP for Rochdale. Abuse was The row over high speed rail rumbles

on. The Government says HS2 will Critics called the latest figures

The former leader of Lancashire County Council Geoff Driver accused

They wouldn't confirm it but said officials of accessing his emails.

They wouldn't confirm it but said possible 20,000 jobs and 15,000

They wouldn't confirm it but said homes. They're the headline figures

after Preston and South Ribble Government. This deal gives us the

dodgers. The Prime Minister says new rules should mean a rethink on how

Cyril Smith, do you think the party let people down by not investigating

those rumours about him sooner? Probably but these things are very

difficult. We are learning lots Probably but these things are very

following the Jimmy 's Gap —— Jimmy Savile scandal. It is not an excuse

to say it was a different time and differently. Hopefully now we will

find out the truth. Is it damaging to the party? Not particularly to

the party but Cyril Smith was a investigation into some of these

more than pay is going up. Which deserves a programme all to itself.

In a moment, more from our political Good afternoon. Nick Clegg says

victory for either the Conservatives Good afternoon. Nick Clegg says

or labour at the next election would put at risk the economic recovery

is. Speaking in Glasgow at the Liberal Democrat annual conference,

he said a coalition would allow Liberal Democrat annual conference,

party to balance politics and enable the government to finish the job of

repairing the economy fairly. It is my genuine belief that if we go

repairing the economy fairly. It is coalition and Islands politics,

repairing the economy fairly. It is dominating blood on their own, you

will get a recovery which is neither fair nor sustainable. Labour would

wreck the recovery, and under the fair nor sustainable. Labour would

same commitment to fairness as ours, you would get the wrong kind

Two 19-year-old woman arrested after a stabbing on Thursday have been

released without charge. Police a stabbing on Thursday have been

trying to discover if there is a link between the killing and a fire

four hours later in which four Five people are being questioned in

government minister has described connection with that blaze. A Syrian

government minister has described the agreement drawn up by America

country's chemical weapons as a The minister claims the deals helps

the Syrians out of a crisis and others war. The US Secretary of

State John Kerry is in Israel to brief the prime minister, Benjamin

Netanyahu, on the proposal. China and France have also welcomed the

deal, which says Syria has until Friday to submit a competence of

list of its chemical stockpile. Britain's Mo Farah has missed out on

winning his first half marathon Britain's Mo Farah has missed out on

He was taking part in the Great North Run between Newcastle and

South Shields. Farrar, who was the favourite following his two gold

Ethiopian's can mean many Serb favourite following his two gold

Kenenisa Bekele in a sprint finish. A carnival atmosphere for the start

walking it, so I have no time in simply dressing up for fun. I am

walking it, so I have no time in mind. I just want to enjoy it and

appreciate the crowds and have a fantastic time. For elite athletes,

today's race was about who would be first over the line. Despite the

wind and rain, large crowds turned out for the world's most popular

half marathon, which attracts some of the finest women runners, two,

including the Kenyan. There were high hopes for Britain's double

Olympic champion Mo Farah, but after Shields, he was narrowly beaten

Ethiopian's Kenenisa Bekele. It Shields, he was narrowly beaten

thought I would come back and close the gap slowly. I managed to close

it a little bit, but you can't take away what he has. Wheelchair athlete

David Weir won his race for a fourth time. More than £200 million has

been raised since the Great North That is it for now. There will be

more news on BBC One at 6:35pm. So, did anything happen while we

were away this summer? I thought heading now? Who better to answer

than the best political panel we could cobble together for a tenner?

Putting foreign affairs to one side for a moment, it seems that what

happened mystically was that it became more apparent that some sort

of recovery was underway at last, and that Mr Miliband still has not

yet resonated with the British public. These things are a problem

for Labour. Ed Miliband's mistake over the summer holiday was to take

a summer holiday. And it looked over the summer holiday was to take

the rest of the Labour Party had taken one too. They were not finding

issues they could make their own. The only person who made an impact

was Stella Creasy on online abuse. That is a huge problem, and it is

partly down to the fact that there is this intense message discipline.

They don't want to say anything is this intense message discipline.

of line until they have got all their ducks in a row. It makes the

party do at the moment. The terms of party do at the moment. The terms of

trade have swung in David Cameron's favour, but the political rhetoric

look at this headline from the is still with Mr Miliband. Let's

look at this headline from the Sunday Telegraph. That headline

might not be right, but the story is significant in that Mr Cameron is

still in danger on his right flank significant in that Mr Cameron is

doesn't need an enormous share of the vote to get an overall majority?

Westminster group think. Of course Ed Miliband is in trouble. The

Tories are reserved and. They are better organised, the economy is

recovering. That poses difficulties for Labour, but if you look at what

is happening on the ground, UKIP still pose a danger to Cameron.

is happening on the ground, UKIP don't need to poll 15% in a lot

is happening on the ground, UKIP those marginal seats, they just

is happening on the ground, UKIP to get five or 6% of the vote, and

that could potentially destroy the Tory lead. Lots of commentators

that could potentially destroy the to say, this guy will never be prime

minister, but it is possible that by default or by accident, in a very

Miliband could end up as prime minister. It is still all to play

for on both sides. If UKIP remains a threat to the Tory right flank and

the Tories themselves are not really a national party any more, I am

the Tories themselves are not really they will only target a few seats in

Scotland, they don't get any big seats in the big cities of the north

any more, they don't get the Ulster vote they used to get, so it is

possible that Labour, which is more nationally based and has seats in

the Midlands and the north and in Wales, so they could get in. I

agree. The advantage of having a bad summer is that Ed Miliband can go to

expectations. All he has to do is not dribble on the lectern, and

expectations. All he has to do is will be written up as spectacular.

expectations. All he has to do is He might not even use a lectin.

position. The electoral vagaries of the system work in his favour. He

still has a narrow poll lead, he is not out of the game at all. Of the

three main party leaders, the only one who can be confident about being

three main party leaders, the only in government after 2015 is Nick

electorally. But if it is this bad for Labour at the moment, what will

it be like if this recovery turns out to be real? It depends how much

they succeed. Chuka Umunna was shifting the debate are living

standards. They don't want to keep arguing about who called it right.

Do people feel richer than they arguing about who called it right.

in 2010? The data suggests that people don't feel richer than in

2010. Because they are not.That people don't feel richer than in

the basis on which Labour will fight the next election. It is clear that

Labour are unclear on what to say or do next. They have just got to hope

and pray that the economy is not as soundly based as it appears to be

and that George Osborne is Tony Barber, who thought he fixed the

just before the next crash. There are all sorts of uncertainties

just before the next crash. There China, the bond market, the housing

bubble might be blown up, and Labour just had to hope something goes

wrong for Osborne. Chuka Umunna just had to hope something goes

he would not get rid of help to just had to hope something goes

There are all these criticisms about just had to hope something goes

artificial schemes pumping up house prices, but he would not say that.

It is tortuous. You see this again and again. When asked if Labour

would repeal the bedroom tax, or the same thing with Royal Mail, it

happens again. They will be falling on people who have not had a meal in

coming out of the Labour Party. There is a kind and Gillette in

coming out of the Labour Party. them to a politician's career. When

they are under attack for a long time, the media get bored after

they are under attack for a long while and switch the story. It

happened to Osborne, who had a horrific 2012 and has recovered

bad press as he is getting at the moment, because people find it

tedious. Syria has been the big foreign-policy event this summer. It

has remarkably led to a Soviet- American initiative to get Syria to

give up its chemical weapons. The world will now expect the Assad

regime to live up to its public commitments. As I said at the outset

anything less than full compliance. John Kerry. Is this too good to

anything less than full compliance. true? Even superficially, it is

anything less than full compliance. very good. The only people who

emerge with any sense of triumph are the Russians, who have had their

emerge with any sense of triumph are biggest diplomatic coup. They are

back on the stage again. B if you want to know why Putin even has

back on the stage again. B if you because of moments like this. They

were humiliated after the end of the Cold War, and a Nou Camp is a great

power again. Then you have the Obama situation, because he has ended

power again. Then you have the Obama where he wanted to end up. He has

power again. Then you have the Obama concession from Syria, but the way

he got there was so embarrassing. It concession from Syria, but the way

made him look weak and erratic as a leader. There were contradictions

between himself and his Secretary of State last week, and it has not

between himself and his Secretary of him any good. I was in the States,

and it was open season on him. I have never understood the idea of

chemical weapons as a red line when you can massacre people in their

thousands through other means. But chemical weapons are beyond the

pale. The rebels are miserable. chemical weapons are beyond the

have run out of time. I will have to ask you what you think about Syria

next week, which gives you time ask you what you think about Syria

prepare. Your book on Fred the shred is going well? It is.I am back

tomorrow at noon with the Daily Politics at noon on BBC Two, where

we will have more from the Liberal Democrat conference in Glasgow.

we will have more from the Liberal is the start of our Daily Politics

conference coverage. Next week, is the start of our Daily Politics

will be back here at our normal is the start of our Daily Politics

of 11am, when we will be joined is the start of our Daily Politics

Grant Shapps. Remember, if it is Sunday, it is the Sunday Politics.