22/09/2013 Sunday Politics North West

Morning, folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics. Ed Miliband and the

rest of the Labour clan are in Brighton for their party conference

this weekend. He's promised policies galore. But as a Sunday Politics

councillors don't think he's doing a good job, will that be enough to

partying like it's 2006, as Damian McBride's memoirs re-ignite the

Blair-Brown wars. Alastair Campbell will tell us why he is sickened

Blair-Brown wars. Alastair Campbell infighting, Conservative Party

Chairman Grant Shapps will give infighting, Conservative Party

response to the rampant Tory-bashing at the Lib Dem Conference And with

business. In London, Labour commands over the two thirds of the ethnic

minority vote but now stands accused of institutional racism. Are they

right? With me, the best and the brightest political panel in the

business. Isabel Hardman, Janan be tweeting like demented Damians

throughout the programme. First today, scrapping the bedroom tax.

Universal childcare for primary school kids. More apprenticeships.

Labour Conference only begins in earnest today, but the policy and

spending commitments are coming according to the Labour leader's

critics. He's been out and about this morning and told Andrew Marr

that he knew it was going to be this morning and told Andrew Marr

It is about a party that lost office three years ago. We are trying to be

a one term opposition. That is tough. I believe it is a fight that

we can win and I am up for that fight. The stakes are so high for

young people who want a job, for people whose living standards are

being squeezed. For people who think that this is not good enough for

Britain. So what do key Labour Party activists - its councillors - think

about the direction Mr Miliband activists - its councillors - think

taking their party? Adam Fleming is in Brighton at the Party Conference

with all the details of our latest exclusive Sunday Politics survey.

conference set. Let us unwrap them. With the help of an opinion poll we

surveyed 1350 Labour councillors across England and Wales. We wanted

to find out what they think as Labour gathers for its conference.

The Labour leader warmed up for Labour gathers for its conference.

week by taking to his soap box in Brighton city centre. It is great

week by taking to his soap box in councillors said they did not think

Ed Miliband was doing a good job as leader. 30% said they thought the

party would have a better chance if someone else was in charge at the

next election. You will see more of Ed Miliband as we run-up to general

election. He has been in the job for three years! Now it is crunch time.

The other Ed, Ed Balls, was disliked by roughly one third of the party as

well. Ed Balls is not a pop your man. He says things and he speaks

his mind. -- not a popular man. diplomatic. Sadly Ed Balls did not

seem to be that bothered about our survey. Over at a conference centre

When it comes to relations with trade unions, the majority of Labour

councillors thought things were absolutely fine. Just 9% thought

things with the unions were a little bit too close. Tricky because Ed

Miliband want to loosen the link. The shadow environment secretary

arrived in Brighton ride bicycle from London to raise money for

councillors what they would do if the next election results in a hung

parliament, just over half said the next election results in a hung

would tell the lid Dems to get on their bikes. We would never say

would tell the lid Dems to get on to going into coalition. It gives us

the chance to be in government and prepare some of the damage of the

last three years. So are you going to start being nice about the Lib

Dems? I always treat them with courtesy. And the parties admitted

that perhaps they had opened the door to too many immigrants. It

that perhaps they had opened the our survey Labour councillors of

warming the felt that immigration We're now joined by the Shadow Chief

Secretary to the Treasury, Rachel Reeves. Good morning. Let us start

with Ed Miliband. Is it true that the team insisted that he be called

the leader? I just call him Ed and I think the rest of the Shadow Cabinet

do. Do you welcome working for a leader that says he is winning back

socialism? We are a democratic important thing is that we have

socialism? We are a democratic policies that will improve people 's

lives and tackle the cost of living crisis facing so many families.

Policies like expanding childcare, offering more apprenticeships, all

policies that I think the country are calling out for after three

years of a flat-lining economy and seeing prices rise faster than wages

for 38 out of the 39 months but Minister. I think that is the most

important thing. So it is OK now to risk their to the Labour Party again

as the Socialist party? The clue is in the name, we stand up for working

people. You are socialist party according to the leader. We have

always been the Labour Party, that is our name and we stand up for

working people, not the privileged few like this government with their

tax cuts for millionaires. Those are privileged few. The Labour Party is

about helping everyone in Britain, all families. Interesting that your

run don't use the word socialist. In our survey one third of Labour

councillors said Ed Miliband was not doing a good job as leader. If he

councillors, who can he convince? Well you could say that two thirds

of councillors think that he is Well you could say that two thirds

right leader. But these are Labour councillors. The overall majority of

Labour councillors think that he is doing a good job. What matters is

the results on election day. Two thirds of councillors think that he

is doing a good job. That us see what they say at the end of this

week. Because I think the policies he is announcing will go down well

week. Because I think the policies with Labour Party people and will

also resonate with the British public. Policies like expanding

apprenticeships, giving a break public. Policies like expanding

struggling. I think people will public. Policies like expanding

what kind of a leader that he is. Well he has a mountain to climb

among all voters. Let me ask the question. Just 12% see him as a

Prime Minister in waiting, just question. Just 12% see him as a

see him as a natural leader. Why? If question. Just 12% see him as a

you look at the overall opinion polls, we are consistently ahead in

those polls. It is hard being leader demonstrate how you would be Prime

Minister. By nature you are in opposition. But he has taken on

Rupert Murdoch and the press barons. That is strong leadership, standing

up to the vast majority. If you That is strong leadership, standing

at his reforms to our relationship with the trade unions, strengthening

ties with individual members. I think that he is a strong leader

making the right decisions. If that is the case, why has the Labour

making the right decisions. If that gone from 14 points one year ago to

at most four points now. What went wrong? Well we are six or eight

are six or eight points ahead in the consistently ahead. It looks as

are six or eight points ahead in the we would get an overall majority if

there was an election tomorrow. we would get an overall majority if

we have more work to do to convince more people to vote for Labour.

we have more work to do to convince this is a historic challenge, to be

a one term Labour opposition. I this is a historic challenge, to be

a one term Labour opposition. I believe that Ed Miliband will be the

next Labour Prime Minister and will be an excellent Prime Minister. The

big policy announcement today is the guaranteed childcare for all primary

school children. How much will that government, they ring fenced money

after-school and breakfast clubs. We think that money should be ring

fenced again. How much will it cost? We are saying that schools

within their budgets should be able to provide that. At the moment they

can charge for children to come to provide that. At the moment they

their first clubs. But this is a additional money. As it was under

the last Labour government it will be about ring fencing money because

we think that this is a priority. This is something that the schools

should do. You cannot ring fenced money you do not have. You saying

schoolchild from eight o'clock in the morning until six o'clock at

night and it will not cost any more money? Well we did ring fence that

money in the last Labour government. That money is gone! It has not gone.

It is about priorities and we are saying that it should be a priority

where is the money being spent now that you would take it from? If

where is the money being spent now look at some of the things that

where is the money being spent now government is doing, building free

schools in areas where there are already enough. That is capital

spending. We are ring fencing that priorities. We had the ring fence

when we were in government. It would be reintroduced so that schools

when we were in government. It would to offer that wraparound care. Of

course schools can charge a small to offer that wraparound care. Of

fee for their breakfast clubs and after-school DVDs. But the important

thing is that provision is there for parents going out to work. Ed Balls

and Ed Miliband are at the heart of the Brown project. Damien Wright was

the hit man. Is it not inconceivable that they did not know what he was

the hit man. Is it not inconceivable up to. It is inconceivable that

the hit man. Is it not inconceivable did not -- Damian McBride. I am

asking about Damian McBride. What did not -- Damian McBride. I am

asking about Damian McBride. What I'm saying is that I was not there.

I was not there under the last Labour government. But I do know

that these things are not happening under the leadership of Ed Miliband.

that backstabbing going on. There is no plotting against Ed Balls going

on? I do not see that. And anyone who briefed against colleagues

should be sacked, I agree with that. Nick Clegg's conference speech made

it clear he was repaired to work with Ed Miliband in the event of a

hung parliament. Are you excited by that prospect or is it just boring?

That is very generous of Nick Clegg to say that. With his poll ratings

of 9%. I think it is up to the general public to decide who they

want to form a government. We are campaigning for an overall Labour

that just boring boring? I want campaigning for an overall Labour

serve in a Labour government is campaigning for an overall Labour

a coalition government. That is campaigning for an overall Labour

we are campaigning for. Thank you for joining us. Steve Richards,

we are campaigning for. Thank you has Ed Miliband got to do this

week? He has got to start to win the argument about the economy. I think

they will be quite clever on that in terms of saying that the recovery

has begun but it is not going to benefit many of the voters. Unlike

previous economic recoveries. That is a strong line and they need to

make that again and again. The recovery has barely started. The

make that again and again. The interesting thing, Isabel, they

make that again and again. The to make a living standards the issue

let's return to living standards which have been squeezed. The polls

show that twice as many people blame Labour for the living standards

show that twice as many people blame the Conservatives. It is a great

scene for them to mine, and it is the only one before they announce

big policies, but they have not gained the trust of voters on the

economy, so the Conservatives can say they are finishing the job of

fixing the recovery now and then cannot quite trust us with the

economy but we will talk about living standards. Ed Miliband's

economy but we will talk about elucidating policies and not just

incredibly vulnerable. The only thing worse than not having a policy

for an opposition leader is to have a policy. It gives the opposition

something to attack, the media something to scrutinise and it makes

you bold rubble and you can see something to scrutinise and it makes

coming through already before the conference has started. You have

childcare. Spigot can he provide wraparound childcare for free?

childcare. Spigot can he provide can he provide wraparound childcare

for free? I don't even know what it is. Opposition is emphatically an

art form, and the art form, and artform for them at the moment is to

announce policies without spending any money and it is very difficult

to do. You gave an illustration any money and it is very difficult

how difficult it is. They are under huge pressure, for the last year, to

announce policies and they announce one on childcare and you immediately

say, how do you paper it? And she immediately says, we will not spend

a penny on it, because they are terrified of spending anything.

a penny on it, because they are is where it an artform. The tax

suspension before and election is crazy, because they will find money

one way or another, but in another way, they cannot say we will spend

money on this. It is a real problem. How do you measure the state of

money on this. It is a real problem. coalition after the Liberal Democrat

conference? The Liberal Democrats were in a very strong position after

their conference, Nick Clegg had faced and activists on some issues,

including fracking, which they supported, which seem to be the

including fracking, which they important part of the conference. In

terms of the coalition, the Tories have had to sit and watch as Vince

Cable, Nick Clegg and Coe have basically criticised them and said

they are evil and only the Lib Dems can make sure the Government is

they are evil and only the Lib Dems and works properly. So in terms

they are evil and only the Lib Dems how the coalition works, you can

expect to see some revenge at the Tory conference. The Lib Dems, Nick

Clegg's followers, they had their revenge. Mister Clegg may have

convinced his own activists to stay behind him, but he has a bigger

convincing the British people. There is some interesting polling they

have done privately that suggests there is a market of about 25% of

the electorate which is plausibly open to them, and all they have

the electorate which is plausibly do is target policies remorselessly

at that group, rather than the broader public, in order to do well

enough at the next election to hold the balance of power. That is why

policies that seem weird to us, the balance of power. That is why

free school meals regardless of income, may perversely make sense to

them. Because it appeals to their political world we are in, the

Labour strategists think they can political world we are in, the

Labour strategists think they can win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going

to concentrate on 25. The Tories win with 35%, the Lib Dems are going

to concentrate on 25. The Tories have seized to be a national party

any more. We haven't been used to it for a long time. In the 80s, one

party dominated, the Tories. In for a long time. In the 80s, one

90s into the 21st century, the policy matter delayed the Labour

Party dominated. -- the Labour party dominated. We are now here but we

have other parties hoping that dominated. We are now here but we

will give them a small overall majority and it is the best they can

get. It is a very odd situation where the main two parties feel

get. It is a very odd situation can lose and the Lib Dems are openly

targeting only 25%. They have gotten rid of 75% already and it is a long

way from the policies of last couple of decades Nick Clegg talked about

all of the policies he had locked. There is a real opportunity for

all of the policies he had locked. Conservatives to say that he is

blocking all of the things that voters outside of our bays are

interested in, top immigration policy, human rights reform, that

sort of thing. David Cameron can say that in Manchester next week. One

thing was quite clear, it came out of this awayday, and and this is

this, that when you look at Mister Miller band's polls, the Tories

this, that when you look at Mister going to make this a presidential

Which is why I am curious why they When the strength of your party

Which is why I am curious why they against his opponents, why not have

him or her juxtaposed against them in 90 minutes three times a week.

past week has given us inklings When the Lib Dems gathered for their

Government is planning on fighting When the Lib Dems gathered for their

annual shindig in Glasgow, some ministers were non-too complimentary

about their blue blood fellows. ministers were non-too complimentary

bedfellows. Vince Cable led the ministers were non-too complimentary

Tories had reverted to type as a nasty party and describe their

politics as ugly, cynical, callous and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not

restrict himself to policies that and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not

the Lib Dems had champion, such and prejudice. Nick Clegg did not

increasing the amount you can earn before paying tax. The Deputy Prime

Minister proudly listed all of the things he had stopped the Tories

from doing. Speak of scrapping housing benefit the young people,

no. No to ditching the human rights act. No to weakening the protections

in the equalities act. So how much of a break have the yellow brigade

being on Conservative ambitions question mark in the two leaders

shake hands again after the 20 question mark in the two leaders

election, what policies were David Cameron insist on. -- 2015? No

matter how many times Nick Clegg And Grant Shapps joins me the Sunday

Grant Shapps, good morning. Nick self-styled. He boasted to his

conference that he had stopped the Tories from going ahead with 16

policies in government. Is this accurate? I don't know but what

policies in government. Is this can tell you, as your commentator

Isabel said, some of the policies that we wanted them if we were a

majority government sent out to that we wanted them if we were a

very popular things, like reforming the human rights act and some of the

problems that provides when it comes to sending people who have no right

to be in this country back. So there to be in this country back. So there

may be some things we could have inheritance tax cut? I don't know

the details, but I think it is negotiation and sometimes you can't

get everything you want, and we negotiation and sometimes you can't

done the best, given where the electoral maths left us. That is why

70 people in this country say they electoral maths left us. That is why

70 people in this country say they would rather see a single party

running the country -- why so many people. I have to say I agree. They

Give me a couple of major policies that you would introduce if you

Give me a couple of major policies had a majority in 2010 and were

Give me a couple of major policies held back by the Lib Dems. Speaking

the one I just mentioned would be Country, we have had 1,000 years of

than capable of putting in place developing the law and we are more

than capable of putting in place sensible laws. you would have left

the European Court of human rights. We have already started the process

of negotiation. There was some progress, but limited, and we would

like to move further. Let me give you one other. I think this country

has a great future but we can only ourselves the best place in the

world to come and set up a business. ourselves the best place in the

If we make ourselves the best place entrepreneurship and I think there

are a host of things we could do to go further on cutting back red tape.

And the Lib Dems have stopped you? I think that is the case. In what

ways, if any, have the Lib Dems improved the coalition process? It

has been a stable government. No one talks about when the next election

will come, we know it is in May talks about when the next election

but that is in part being in a coalition. The Tories wouldn't have

done that? It wasn't the plan of any party to go from... In the old days,

there would have been speculation. debate, you changed the British

constitution in a fundamental way and nobody got a say. It was debated

on the floor of the Has, as all constitutional changes are and there

was a lot of agreement -- of the House. Nobody has ever said to me

that it is a problem that we now have a fixed term parliament. Here

it is, every five years. This is what it has done, it has provided

stability in an incredibly uncertain economic time and that has been

stability in an incredibly uncertain for the economy. we will chalk that

up to delete -- Lib Dem. What about taking people out of tax, the Lib

Dems did that question mark it is a great policy. It is a conservative

led government, it is a Conservative This is a screen grab from your

party's website, income tax cut This is a screen grab from your

25 million people. You are taking the credit for it, it wouldn't have

happened without the Lib Dems. It certainly came about because of

happened without the Lib Dems. It coalition and we put it in the

coalition agreement. It could not have happened without a Conservative

Chancellor making it happen. It have happened without a Conservative

right, 25 million people taken out of tax. Another 17 by this April

will not be paying tax at all. you didn't want to do it. Look at what

David Cameron told Nick Clegg during What Nick Clegg is promising is

David Cameron told Nick Clegg during £17 billion tax cut. We are saying,

stop the waste of 6 billion to stop the national insurance rise. I would

love to take everyone out of their first £10,000 of income tax, it

love to take everyone out of their beautiful idea but we cannot afford

unaffordable and now you are taking the credit for it. I feel like it is

having a three year afterwards argument, and we got into coalition

because the British people put us there and we agreed to make the

because the British people put us of it. And as it happens, if you

absolutely think it is the right thing to take as many people out of

tax entirely as possible. Two points 7 million people pay no tax at all

threshold. -- 2.7 million. I'm pleased it worked out. What are

threshold. -- 2.7 million. I'm most important thing is a majority

Tory government would do after most important thing is a majority

unencumbered by the Lib Dems? I think produce even more jobs when

unemployment goes down, because think produce even more jobs when

are the most entrepreneurial place to set up a business. Are more

free-market economy? We make our money because we are out global

trading economy. That is why it money because we are out global

so important that we have to make sure it is easy to trade around

so important that we have to make world. One simple example, it is

crazy in my view that we have global tariffs that prevent some of the

hardest other countries in the tariffs that prevent some of the

hardest other countries in the world, in developing parts of the

world, from exporting to us and world, in developing parts of the

versa. I'm giving you a platform of things that I think we would be

versa. I'm giving you a platform of interested in progressing in. It

sounds like you are talking about even more Thatcherite, market led

agendas. I think that you did a even more Thatcherite, market led

amount to show this country that if you want to help the least well

amount to show this country that if people in society, and the least

well off people in the world, around the globe, the way to do it is to

trade, and I think we should have an economy which is much more open

trade, and I think we should have an free trade. If there is another

trade, and I think we should have an parliament, and the poll suggest

there might be, at the moment it is all to play for on both sides, what

would your non-negotiable Red Line speak? We are still two years away

from that, it is a long way away, but there is a lot we want to lay

out. What we are going to be saying to this country is most people want

a single party running the country, they think it is clean and clear and

you don't end up with negotiation setting out a very clear platform

which will be for hard-working people in this country who want

which will be for hard-working work hard and get on in life. We

would, I think, want to see the welfare state that we have got into,

where it is no longer about helping those most in need but became a

situation where you are better off not working than in worker, I think

we plan to ensure that this is an incredibly fair place to go out

we plan to ensure that this is an do a day's work and get the money at

the end of the day rather than thinking there is an alternative.

you have promised a referendum on UK membership of the EU in 2017, that

must be your first Red Line? We membership of the EU in 2017, that

clear, we want to see a referendum, a reform European Union. So no

poll... ? I should remind viewers that there is an act of Parliament,

a bill going through Parliament right now, for a referendum on the

EU, which comes back to the House. It is past the report stage and

comes back in November and we will be discussing it. The Lib Dems,

Labour, will have an opportunity to support what the British people

want. Lots may have changed. But it would be a Red Line for any future

coalition government question mark we are clear that it is time to

coalition government question mark manifesto. What is wrong with yes or

no? I cannot write the manifesto for 2015. You are asking me to project

beyond that and see in advance the election result and carry out the

negotiations that are yet to come. I'm just trying to work out how

much... I know you are committed but she won't tell me. Let's move on.

Your party has been described as nasty and blinkered. What do you

feel when he says that? We are interested in helping the most

vulnerable people in society. I think we're doing all that and more.

And it is a shame that that language was used because we have made so

much progress together. Are you getting to the end of your tether

with Mr King? I do not think it getting to the end of your tether

terribly helpful for any Cabinet minister to make comments like that.

What I would say is that Nick Clegg minister to make comments like that.

is the leader of the Lib Dems and himself. Look at these figures on

party membership. Why has your party lost half of its members since Mr

Cameron became leader? I would like it to be more. But I think the world

has changed. People do not rush it to be more. But I think the world

and join political parties as they used to. Instead they support you in

different ways. If I released the number of people who give to the

party in different ways, through donations for example, through

friend memberships. If you include that that figure goes back up. But

a time when UKIP has doubled. I that that figure goes back up. But

not want to to misinterpret what I want to say. It is important to

not want to to misinterpret what I members. I think we will have done

election. But one statistic of interest, in the last election I had

constituency. The difference was I deliver leaflets and knock on the

doors. The Conservative party has changed. We now have an army of

people, volunteers who are not days when you expect people to give

you £25, before you accept their spoke about your most vulnerable

marginal seats. This is a poll from marginal seats that you will be

defending. Labour is way up, you are way down and UKIP is also up. What

is happening, the Lib Dem Mo -- way down and UKIP is also up. What

disillusioned Conservatives are moving to UKIP. If these figures

came at an election he would lose 32 of these 40 seats. The point about

any opinion poll is that it is perhaps accurate at the moment it is

taken. We are now in a position where the economy has turned the

corner. The right thing to do was to deal with the deficit. The people

being asked about these things, deal with the deficit. The people

will be interested in their own standard of living. Their mortgage

payments. Why are you doing worse in the marginal seats? National League

you are kind of nip and tuck with Labour. Well if that is the pick to

come 2015, people will see that Labour. Well if that is the pick to

government has stuck to its guns. It did not go for more borrowing and

demonstrates that the last thing you want to do is give the car keys

demonstrates that the last thing you to the people who crashed it in

demonstrates that the last thing you first place. Lynton Crosby at this

away day of Conservative MPs, his one message was to go all out and

attack Ed Miliband. It is going one message was to go all out and

actually not true. We are going one message was to go all out and

focus on his policies, if he finally announces some. Everything we have

seen so far suggests it would mean more borrowing and spending. The

shadow chancellor said we would more borrowing and spending. The

ruthless, just a few months later, committed by Labour. These are your

figures. I will speak to you about watching the Sunday Politics. Coming

up in just over 20 minutes. Alastair not-too-positive review of Damian

McBride's memoirs. Until then, the Coming up in the North West: The

Labour Leader's big announcement on housing benefits and how the mayor

of Liverpool played his part: he has been one of the most vocal and

articulate people, talking about the that is why we are getting it ——

that is why we are getting rid of joined this week by Mark Hendrick,

the Labour MP for Preston, and Dr Stuart Wilks—Heeg, senior lecturer

University. And from the conference in Brighton, we have the Labour

University. And from the conference for Liverpool West Derby and Shadow

Education Secretary, Stephen Twigg. Give us the overview for where

Labour is. Labour are ahead of the polls. They are still ahead, as

Labour is. Labour are ahead of the pressure is on Ed Miliband to come

up with a narrative which will persuade people that labral are

up with a narrative which will party for the —— Labour are the

up with a narrative which will party. The polls are narrowing and

Labour are not as far ahead as they further ahead. I think we are doing

quite well. I think we have moved conference weekend we have the

opportunity to showcase some of conference weekend we have the

new policies which will lead to conference weekend we have the

and more as we get closer to the election. The conserver —— the

Conservative government is failing. Let's take a look at how the party

is faring in the Northwest. Labour has 45 of our 72 seats and the

Conservatives control 21 seats. has 45 of our 72 seats and the

of those seats are among the most marginal. In those seats are recent

polls suggesting that Labour had a Miliband into number ten. Labour

failed to win the overall control. Democrats. Well in the last couple

days, the policies have started Democrats. Well in the last couple

emerge. But there are still plenty who feel Labour's not being clear

It's 20 months away, but in the Labour target of Weaver Vale, the

general election campaign is already parliamentary candidate for the

Labour Party for the next general election. After years of challenging

economic conditions, the likes of John Prescott have criticised the

party leadership for failing to John Prescott have criticised the

out their own position. The Labour Party is rooted in its grassroots.

What we are listening to is that we are feeding that back—up to the

readership, so that is shaping policy. —— the leadership. But one

local figure with a higher profile, announcement on the housing benefit

reform, says the need to know what Labour stand for and how they will

make a difference. That is where I believe we have lost our way. We

have to grab that back by the scruff of the neck and stand up for what we

believe in. I do not believe that middle England do not understand the

bedridden taxes, that it is costing them money. —— the bedroom tax. Like

Ed Miliband's attempts to change the unions. Eddie seems to once —— Ed

Miliband seems to wants to pull unions. Eddie seems to once —— Ed

from the unions. We want to make the link stronger, for want of a better

word, and keep people better I feel he ate it. The Conservatives sent

their biggest hitters to the region this summer. Labour kept a lower

councillor, who's now left the party, thinks that stems from Ed

Miliband's style of leadership. His staff are all there to tell him

Miliband's style of leadership. His he wants to hear. He does not have

people challenging him. Ultimately, people are not voting for him to be

Prime Minister because he is not capable. Ed Miliband has been leader

for three years. After the firm commitment on housing benefit, will

more clear policy now follow? The main thrust of the piece seems to be

that it is still not clear enough what Labour stands for. Thank you

very much and good morning. This is an important conference 18 months

ahead of the election, and we will focus on how we can address the

ahead of the election, and we will of living prices. You have Artie

been spoken about the appeal that has been made concerning the bedroom

tax. Practical policies that will make a difference for hard—working

families. Joe Anderson, the Mayor of Liverpool has said that we have

families. Joe Anderson, the Mayor of our way and we have got to stand up

for what we believe in. It is really important that we do stand up for

what we believe in. We set out clear and practical policies that can

unite people, including the people in marginal seats that we need to

put —— persuades to come to us. Talking about apprenticeships, jobs

for young people, these are exactly the issues that people want to hear

about. Your core supporters feel, or some of them do, that you have been

too timid and too nervous worrying about middle England. The big issue

that's my core supporters have been raising with me has been the bedroom

tax, and I am delighted that Ed Miliband has made away on that.

tax, and I am delighted that Ed Labour to be in government, we need

to win in marginal seats as well as in constituencies like West Derby.

There are limits to what I can do when we have a Tory led government

Winchester and other places from the Conservatives. That some things

Winchester and other places from the addressing the crisis which is

affecting cities like Liverpool addressing the crisis which is

middle England. If it is so cleared that's —— if it is so clear that the

bedroom tax is so wrong, why did it take Ed Miliband so long to oppose

it? Yellow macro if you look at take Ed Miliband so long to oppose

last three years of his leadership leadership... The commitment is

there. The election is 18 months constituents, they are pleased to

hear this and they want to work constituents, they are pleased to

to get a Labour government that can't get rid of the bedroom tax. ——

that can get rid of. We did very well but we are coming from a very

excellent leadership and we have a county counsellor who is turning

Lancashire County around. U lustre Chief Executive. That was to do

Lancashire County around. U lustre the previous —— you lost your Chief

Executive. That was to do with the previous government. Can middle

ground be forgotten? In the North West, the supports will be forgotten

Nemaja what is said to the manifesto —— no matter what is said in the

manifesto. This is the challenge. Have you been aware in Preston that

people have been worried about what Labour stands for and whether it has

principles? People impressed and Conservative government will do

nothing for them. There are people struggling to get into accident

nothing for them. There are people emergency and police numbers are

being cut. That is not the same thing as knowing that Labour is

going to do enough about it. There is no doubt about it, in other parts

of the Northwest, there are certain people who are aware that Labour

have not been clear enough. You people who are aware that Labour

and see what the —— you look and see what the best policies are. It is

still 18 months away. His policies will start to filter through and

show people what a Labour government as we've heard, this summer John

Prescott said Labour had failed as we've heard, this summer John

get its message across. He said as we've heard, this summer John

Ferguson, although by that I don't recovering from a hip operlast week

we spoke to Nick Clegg, and next week we'll have David Cameron. I

have heard that this is hitting week we'll have David Cameron. I

of the most hard up people in the country. 110,000 families across the

Northwest are being hit. We are going to close loopholes to end

Northwest are being hit. We are bedroom tax. It is all part of what

a Labour government would do and what our party is about, tackling

the crisis that sent many families are going through. A man that has

bedroom tax says, you have to give people hope, you have to talk about

the difference you can make, and I think we are struggling to get our

message across. Why is that? I agree with half of that. We have got to

show the changes we would make. with half of that. We have got to

has been one of the most vocal and articulate people talking about

has been one of the most vocal and problems of the bedroom tax. That is

why we are getting rid of it. It is not working and it is unfair and it

difference a Labour government would make. Do you accept that you have

been damaged by not taking the decision sooner? No, because I think

people accept that I can show that anything we do will be paid for

people accept that I can show that credible, and that is why we have

taken our time to make sure we can end the bedroom tax. I think that is

expect, credibility and difference from the Labour Party. It was in

2008 that it was in fact Labour from the Labour Party. It was in

introduced the bedroom tax for the private rented centre. —— sector. I

private rented sector and social housing. The purpose of social

housing is different. People tend to stay in social housing for longer.

Two thirds of the people who are hit by the bedroom tax are disabled

Two thirds of the people who are hit they have nowhere else to move to. I

think people have realised that they have nowhere else to move to. I

bedroom tax is wrong and that is why we are getting rid of it. We have

got to make sure that what we are pledging is affordable and I think

people will understand that. Even though there are a lot of people who

are in need in the private sector as well. There are people in need right

across this country, and we will be showing this week how we will make a

difference to them. I do not believe that there are people in poor parts

of Britain who have different needs and interests from people in more

affluent parts. Cost of living is an issue for people across every part

of Britain. Of course it hits poorer families hardest, but that is why we

will not just show what we will families hardest, but that is why we

and the bedroom tax, but what we will do on the whole range of things

that will affect families across this country. Thank you very much.

What is the significance of this? People have been waiting to hear

across the country to see if Labour would reverse this policy. There is

a whole series of other areas where I think people want to know quite

what Labour would repeal that the Conservatives have pushed through. I

do not think this will settle that matter. It became quite symbolic for

Labour. It is clearly a key issue in its heartland. I think you can

understand why they have made that change. The Conservatives say that

Labour has got its priorities wrong. I think Ed Miliband has failed at

the first hurdle. His first policy initiative has not been to in some

—— invest in infrastructure or reduce the burden on business or

even dealing with the massive debt that was provided to us last time.

They have chosen to put the benefits of money that we simply do not have.

Ben Wallace saying that you cannot control public spending. That is

rubbish. We've got 18 months to control public spending. That is

out our policies in detail. We are not going to rush out a bunch of

quick policies to keep a couple not going to rush out a bunch of

people happy. We are going to make sure that those policies are tried

and tested and have been costed properly. The Treasury officials are

coming out with rubbish about a black hole. You don't think they

know about credible spending? They do, but they do not know about what

Labour will or won't do. We will make sure it is affordable. The

Treasury is talking about a £27 billion black hole. Rubbish. Big of

a number and venture bullet. Q to the party conference. —— think of a

number and triple it. The rights and wrongs of the policy, politically,

do you accept there is a danger wrongs of the policy, politically,

Labour could be painted as the party for those on benefits? Not at all.

This is families, many of them with disabled members of their family,

families living in homes they have lived in for decades. I think what

Joann is said —— Joe Anderson said earlier is right, it is mainstream

against the values of our country, announcement is so important and

will have wide support. Let's talk about policy more generally. I

quoted Joe Anderson and so have you. Let's have a quote from Andy

Burnham speaking to a newspaper you. Let's have a quote from Andy

the summer. There is definite —— there is definitely a leak —— there

louder. Why do we not have answers? We do have answers. Mark Hendrick

made a good point earlier and that manifest is sorted at this point.

The world will change in 18 months. apprenticeships or the economy,

The world will change in 18 months. will see a lot more detail this

week. It is fairly clear that Andy Burnham was suggesting that you

should have had more policies in place sooner. We've got 18 months,

and the important thing is to get this right. We have policy that

and the important thing is to get will be setting out a primary child

care guarantee so that working parents of primary aged children can

know that they will have affordable childcare from eight in the morning

until six in the evening and that cost—of—living of my constituents in

Liverpool, but also constituent cost—of—living of my constituents in

and down the country. The criticism being fired at you is that these are

not being costed at a time when public spending is being cut and

will continue to be cut even if public spending is being cut and

are in government. You cannot afford extras. That is why we are only

proposing policies that are clearly costed. That is why some of the

things today are wildly inflated commitment like the one that Ed

Miliband made on Friday, we tell you recognise we are going to inherit a

tough financial position, but what is different is that our priorities

are about hard—working priorities —— hard—working families. Do you think

the Shadow Education Secretary should have been clearer about

education policies? We will set should have been clearer about

Manchester last year about the forgotten 50 cents —— 50% and how we

can get more apprenticeships for young people. These are the policies

that people want to hear from us. We will need all of the details so

that people want to hear from us. We we have a manifesto that people

that people want to hear from us. We suggested that you are the most

likely person to lose her job in a cabinet reshuffle. —— lose it your

job. I am not going to comment on that. I have a speech to make this

afternoon about the key priorities of addressing the forgotten 50%

afternoon about the key priorities childcare. I enjoy working with

afternoon about the key priorities Miliband and a reshuffle is a matter

for him. Of course it is, but when we had issues over Damien McBride

again, it doesn't bode well that you are being briefed against by your

own site. We have moved on from those days. It is clear that we

own site. We have moved on from a different style of leadership

own site. We have moved on from Ed Miliband. Those bad old days

own site. We have moved on from not the sort of things that we see

anymore and I am glad. Thank you very much indeed. Also holding its

conference over the last couple very much indeed. Also holding its

days in the UK Independence Party. Their leader has been telling us why

they failed to take any seats in Council. We were not able to break

virtually everywhere, and we are making a huge increase on where

virtually everywhere, and we are have been before. I do not buy the

argument that we are not making progress in the north. You do have

one counsellor in Cheshire, Brian Sylvester. He came to your policy

after he had been convicted in court of a number of fire safety breaches

over a property that he was letting out, and he also did not have the

proper licensing. Why was he allowed leave it to the regions to make

decisions. It is often difficult to decide. Nigel Farage there. Last

week we spoke to Nick Clegg and decide. Nigel Farage there. Last

week we will be speaking to David Cameron. How seriously should we

take the UK Independence Party in this region? Nigel Farage is wrong,

they did not come second in the County Council elections. And the

European elections they may do well. They may come top in the North West.

But they have struggled here. How concerned are you about the threat

is the mark very concerned. They are a nationalist party. —— about the

threat? Very concerned. They are a nationalist party. It is a strong

issue with a lot of people. They have a strong message. The Labour

Party will be taking them seriously at the next European elections. Time

for the rest of the week's news at the next European elections. Time

here's Ian Haslam with 60 seconds. McGuinness told people in Warrington

that he was setting up peace talks on the day the town was bombed.

Northern Ireland's Deputy First Minister was invited to Cheshire on

the 20th anniversary of the attack. The past cannot be changed. Four

Conservative councillors on Cheshire suspended from the Tory group after

development on green belt land to a full council meeting. Corks popped

for the PFI—funded redevelopment of Pendleton in Salford and a new Royal

Hospital in Liverpool. Each scheme will cost around £430 million. The

old hospital is crumbling. It is not a place to have good, quality health

care. Blackpool's Tram lines are Blackpool North Railway Station

care. Blackpool's Tram lines are cost around £16 million. And a ban

on bus lanes, Liverpool's scrapping them for nine months to see if it

improves the flow of traffic. Still a while away, but any predictions

for the 2015 general election? I think the polls are looking good. We

largest party, but he really wants to be a majority. There are policies

still to be developed and battles still to be fought before that.

Conservatives to win a majority still to be fought before that.

only if the ball comes to me. Bob Blackman and Sadiq Khan, thanks

only if the ball comes to me. Bob much. Leafing through the papers the

only if the ball comes to me. Bob last few days has taken me back

only if the ball comes to me. Bob my youth. The halcyon days of the

2000s, when the warring Blairite and Brownite tribes fought over who

Brown's chief spin doctor Damian should run the Labour Party. Gordon

Brown's chief spin doctor Damian McBride - McPoison, or worse, to his

enemies - has published his memoirs, timed for maximum impact in the

enemies - has published his memoirs, of Labour's Conference. They detail

how Mr McBride briefed against colleagues, brought down Cabinet

Ministers, that is - and fought tooth and nail to promote the man he

called "the greatest man he ever met" - Gordon Brown. Joining us

called "the greatest man he ever is Tony Blair's former Director

called "the greatest man he ever Communications, Alastair Campbell.

You are angry about what he has Communications, Alastair Campbell.

in this book. Why is that. It is partly the fact that he has done it

in a way that will be -- will be damaging to the Labour Party at

in a way that will be -- will be time. But also because of the lies

that he told at the time that he now communications and trying to hold

the thing together, build the team. There was also Charlie Whelan and

others. And that job was made more difficult than it should have been.

I used to challenge Gordon Brown about it. And there came a stage

where I said if Whelan does not about it. And there came a stage

I will go. And when Damian McBride was on the scene I was clear that I

was not going to have anything to do with him. Because of what he is

was not going to have anything to do admitting to, I think they played

quite a significant part in pushing Labour out of power. Because the

public were being fed by them, this public were being fed by them, this

narrative, the whole time. That Blair was useless, Charles Clarke

was useless. And I think that we where the government and had very

good ministers trying to do big things for the country. I said this

morning it was like being a foot tall team were on the pitch you

morning it was like being a foot your own players kicking the star

players. That is why I am angry about it because I think they helped

usher in a conservative government. If we had all stuck together I think

did not win the last election, that is a reasonable point. But surely

undermine Tony Blair and to promote their man, Gordon Brown. It is

inconceivable then that Gordon Brown did not know about it. Well in spite

reasonably good relationship with Gordon Brown. I used to challenge

him a lot about what Whelan was doing. He would always say, I will

sort it out. Another thing that annoys me is this sense put forward

by the right wing media that there was this sense of equivalence.

People like Steve who I have known for years, there is not a single

journalist with the very occasional exception where I lost my temper,

who would honestly be able to tell you that I ever breathed against

ministers. That was my golden rule. People say you were the forerunner.

I know it was not the case. One People say you were the forerunner.

the reasons why I do despise what they did, the whole spin thing which

associated with, once I wrote a actually within the government,

associated with, once I wrote a had a principle of maximum openness

and trust. Anyone could come to had a principle of maximum openness

morning meetings on condition that what was discussed their state as

part of the team. I had to say to Gordon Brown, your people are not

coming. Because I knew where it Gordon Brown, your people are not

coming from. Did you know that the time but Charles Clarke and others

were effectively being destroyed from within the Labour government? I

certainly knew that they thought that. I did know journalists telling

me that that was what was happening. Ultimately, this is why I never

me that that was what was happening. leaders, it is ultimately up to

me that that was what was happening. litre. Possibly in a different age

Gordon Brown would have been an amazing Prime Minister. He was a

great chancellor. But he had a flaw, this need for truly horrible

people to be around him doing truly horrible things in politics and

giving him and the Labour Party horrible things in politics and

politics a bad name. That is why I'm still angry about Damian McBride.

What do you make of it? The current administration is a contrast. We

have rival factions occupying the same offices but they still get

have rival factions occupying the The only time they have a row is

when something really big happens. But with that one party in Downing

Street there was fighting the whole time. Did Ed Balls know about this.

I would assume so. I spoke with time. Did Ed Balls know about this.

about it at the time. He told me at the time that he had spoken about it

with Gordon Brown. So I think there was a concern from within that camp

about some of these activities at equivalence, in life you expect

about some of these activities at see that there is full on both

sides. But I do not buy it in this see that there is full on both

case. If you look at the testimonies see that there is full on both

over the years, what you can surmise about the character of Gordon Brown

and of Tony Blair, it was ultimately driven by Gordon Brown and the

people around him. The Blairites did things but they did then by way

people around him. The Blairites did retaliation rather than initiation.

The one-time when I did lose it retaliation rather than initiation.

the whole psychological force thing. That came at the end of a period

when we were relentlessly being That came at the end of a period

in by Charlie Whelan and his gang of journalists. I would go along to

colleagues would be there and I journalists. I would go along to

had to sit there and not hit back. Saying I cannot believe Gordon Brown

would have anything to do with this. You get to the stage where your

would have anything to do with this. credibility is on the line. Coming

promotion of alcohol awareness. credibility is on the line. Coming

before that the Labour Party, you never had to deal with this in

opposition because you were pretty far ahead in the polls by midterm.

This time that is not the case. far ahead in the polls by midterm.

is surprisingly narrow. What advice would you give to Ed Miliband? To

keep his head out side of this bubble but it's all about him. And

to use this week to really speak to the British people about himself,

particularly the kind of policy And start to heart -- start to hit

the Tories hard. They're not pop, they're not competent. They're

screwing up the health service. they're not competent. They're

yet they are neck and neck. I would say that the whole Shadow Cabinet

understand that you win elections by wanting to win elections every

minute of every day. There is too much complacency. A small lead now

you have to grow that. You do that with energy and conviction and

policy. Tony Blair had a huge pole bead in the run-up to 1997. We were

winning seat where we had not even campaigned and he was saying, why

yet. You are promoting your alcohol celebrate because we have not won

yet. You are promoting your alcohol awareness campaign. Perhaps the

party conference is not the best place to do that! That is one reason

why I am doing that. I'm hosting probably the only alcohol free

reception of the week! There is nothing worse than a convert, I

reception of the week! There is that. But I travel a lot. I travel

around the world and Britain has a something we should be ashamed of.

Why is that, is it cultural? I think it is historical. But I dig David

Cameron was right to go for minimum unit pricing and wrong to do a

reversal. 6% of alcoholics get treatment. I expect that drugs are a

problem but we spent £2 billion treatment. I expect that drugs are a

100,000 problem drug takers and treatment. I expect that drugs are a

million on 1.6 million problem have written this book about a young

million on 1.6 million problem alcoholic, a teenager. And it is in

the first person. People could think you are writing about yourself.

did you choose a teenage girl? Well did you choose a teenage girl? Well

partly, I dedicated this to the Southampton. He told me when he

started his career that his patience was split nine to one, men to women

and it is now 50 - 50. They're getting younger and younger. One

doctor looking after me said I will take you around this hospital and

the problems of alcohol are in every single ward. Not just accident and

emergency. I watched the foot all, advertisements for gambling and

emergency. I watched the foot all, advertising. How have we allowed

this to happen, ? We are just awash with it. What we did I think on

Availability and price either too means by which you can bring this

down. And the country that has had the biggest success on this is

Russia, bizarrely. Thank you very much for that. That's all for today.

Thanks to all our guests. I'll be with live coverage of Labour Party

Conference, including the speech from the man who wants to be the

next Chancellor, Ed Balls. Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday