Browse content similar to 23/10/2016. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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There's another candidate in the race to become Ukip's next | :00:35. | :00:41. | |
leader: Suzanne Evans, the party's former deputy chairman, | :00:42. | :00:43. | |
This man might have something to say about that. | :00:44. | :00:50. | |
Paul Nuttal was Nigel Farage's deputy for many years. | :00:51. | :00:52. | |
So is he now ready to throw his hat in the ring? | :00:53. | :00:55. | |
The battle for Mosul: the Iraqi army and its allies advane | :00:56. | :01:01. | |
on the country's second city which has been in the hands of | :01:02. | :01:04. | |
But what will be the fallout from this key clash? | :01:05. | :01:14. | |
Hi, Marie, how are you? George! | :01:15. | :01:17. | |
A welcome home, but George Osborne admits | :01:18. | :01:18. | |
one of the richest cities in the world. Should all private landlords | :01:19. | :01:23. | |
be licensed to help tackle the squalor? | :01:24. | :01:28. | |
And with me - as always - the best and the brightest political | :01:29. | :01:31. | |
panel in the business: Toby Young, Polly Toynbee and Tom Newton Dunn - | :01:32. | :01:34. | |
The last leader was in the job a mere 18 days before she decided | :01:35. | :01:43. | |
The favourite to succeed her then quit the party after a now infamous | :01:44. | :01:49. | |
Ukip's biggest donor says the party is at "breaking point". | :01:50. | :01:54. | |
This morning, the former Deputy Chairman, Suzanne Evans, | :01:55. | :02:01. | |
announced that she would be running for the leadership. | :02:02. | :02:03. | |
I've thought long and hard about this leadership bid, | :02:04. | :02:09. | |
and one of the reasons I've perhaps delayed announcing it is | :02:10. | :02:11. | |
because I wanted to be absolutely sure that I had the support | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
And I can confirm that I have more than enough signatures | :02:15. | :02:18. | |
on the nomination form already to be able to go forward. | :02:19. | :02:21. | |
Let's not forget that 3,000 people signed a petition in support of me | :02:22. | :02:25. | |
I know head office was besieged with letters in support. | :02:26. | :02:30. | |
I would not be doing this if I didn't have the backing | :02:31. | :02:34. | |
of our members, because our members are the most important | :02:35. | :02:37. | |
Well, Paul Nuttall was Nigel Farage's deputy for many years | :02:38. | :02:45. | |
and plenty of people saw him as a leader-in-waiting. | :02:46. | :02:48. | |
Let's ask the man himself - Paul Nuttall joins me now. | :02:49. | :02:56. | |
Yes. I've made the decision that I'm going to put my name forward to be | :02:57. | :03:03. | |
the next leader of Ukip. I have huge support across the country, not only | :03:04. | :03:08. | |
amongst people at the top of the party in Westminster and with the | :03:09. | :03:13. | |
MEPs, but also the grassroots. I want to be the unity candidate. Ukip | :03:14. | :03:17. | |
needs to come together. I'm not going to gild the lily. Ukip is | :03:18. | :03:22. | |
looking over a political cliff at the moment. It will either step four | :03:23. | :03:34. | |
step back, and I want to tell us to step backwards. You say it faces an | :03:35. | :03:36. | |
ex-distension or threat, which means it's possible it has no future at | :03:37. | :03:39. | |
all. Students of political history know that political parties take a | :03:40. | :03:44. | |
long time to get going. They can disappear pretty quickly. Ukip is | :03:45. | :03:49. | |
facing an existential crisis. What happened over the summer has put us | :03:50. | :03:54. | |
on a... We could be on a spiral that we can't get off. But I believe I am | :03:55. | :03:59. | |
the man to bring the factions together, to create unity within the | :04:00. | :04:03. | |
party, and to build on the structure and get us ready for the common | :04:04. | :04:07. | |
challenges. Why didn't you stand last time? Because I have spent the | :04:08. | :04:12. | |
last four or five years of my life travelling around the country. I | :04:13. | :04:17. | |
have done more Ukip meetings than anybody else, spending a lot of time | :04:18. | :04:22. | |
away from home. With Brexit, I felt that my job and Nigel's job was done | :04:23. | :04:27. | |
and we could hand over to the next generation. That doesn't seem to be | :04:28. | :04:31. | |
the case, and maybe it's time for someone who is an old hand. I'm very | :04:32. | :04:36. | |
experienced and I know the party inside out. Maybe it's time to step | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
in and bring the party together. You told the Liverpool Echo on the night | :04:41. | :04:47. | |
of July that you didn't wish to take on Nigel Farage, you didn't want | :04:48. | :04:51. | |
that to happen to your family and friends. What has changed? The party | :04:52. | :05:00. | |
is facing an existential crisis, and I want to make sure that Ukip is on | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
the pitch to keep the ball into the open net we have in politics. We | :05:06. | :05:11. | |
have a Conservative Party who is moving toward Brexit, but we have to | :05:12. | :05:18. | |
be there too. Why would you be better than Suzanne Evans? Suzanne | :05:19. | :05:23. | |
would be an excellent candidate. I thought the 2015 manifesto was the | :05:24. | :05:27. | |
best out of all the political parties. I would be the best | :05:28. | :05:30. | |
candidate because of my experience. I am not part of any faction within | :05:31. | :05:37. | |
the party. Is she? I get on well with everybody, and I believe I | :05:38. | :05:40. | |
could be the man to bring the party together. Do you get on with Iain | :05:41. | :05:48. | |
Banks, -- Aaron Banks, who is supporting one of your rivals? Yes, | :05:49. | :05:52. | |
I get on well with him. He is able to choose whoever he wants to be the | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
next leader of the party. After November 28, the leadership | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
election, we all say, the past the past. It becomes Daisy row for the | :06:03. | :06:07. | |
new leader. We forget all that has before and move on. You won the | :06:08. | :06:13. | |
referendum. Mrs May is adopting some of your policies, like grammar | :06:14. | :06:18. | |
schools. What is the point of Ukip these days? Twofold. We don't have | :06:19. | :06:24. | |
Brexit. Mrs May said she would not invoke Article 50 until the end of | :06:25. | :06:27. | |
March, and we don't know if that will happen. We need to ensure a | :06:28. | :06:33. | |
strong Ukip to make sure that Brexit really does mean Brexit. We have a | :06:34. | :06:38. | |
huge opportunity in working class communities where the Labour Party | :06:39. | :06:42. | |
no longer represents them. I believe Ukip can become the voice of working | :06:43. | :06:47. | |
people. If you were the leader, would Ukip be a bigger threat to | :06:48. | :06:51. | |
Labour in the north or the Tories in the South? You save Labour in the | :06:52. | :06:56. | |
north, and people often to make that mistake. There's working class | :06:57. | :07:00. | |
communities right across the country is. There are working-class | :07:01. | :07:03. | |
communities in Bristol just as in Newcastle. We are second in a | :07:04. | :07:17. | |
number of northern seats, and southern seats as well, and I | :07:18. | :07:20. | |
believe the party can move into these communities. It can only do so | :07:21. | :07:23. | |
if Ukip is on the pitch, and I intend to make sure that's the case. | :07:24. | :07:26. | |
I don't think we have portrayed a good image over the summer. Is that | :07:27. | :07:32. | |
called British understatement? A bit. It is dysfunctional. We have to | :07:33. | :07:40. | |
move on beyond Nigel Farage. We have to build a strong national Executive | :07:41. | :07:44. | |
Committee. We need to ensure our branches are ready for the fight and | :07:45. | :07:49. | |
concentrate on local elections. I've got the experience. I'm now throwing | :07:50. | :07:54. | |
my hat into the ring, and I'm the only person who can keep Ukip in the | :07:55. | :07:59. | |
game. What role would you give Nigel Farage, if any? I will be the | :08:00. | :08:04. | |
candidate of compromise. I would see what Nigel wanted to do. Would you | :08:05. | :08:08. | |
keep in the leader of the freedom and democracy group in the European | :08:09. | :08:12. | |
Parliament? There would have to be compromise on both sides, and we | :08:13. | :08:16. | |
would need to talk about it. I don't know what Nigel wants to do. Do you | :08:17. | :08:23. | |
think his support, his association with Donald Trump, helps Ukip win | :08:24. | :08:27. | |
female votes in this country? Personally, I would not have gone | :08:28. | :08:31. | |
out and campaigned or said anything about Donald Trump, but I don't | :08:32. | :08:37. | |
think Ukip has come out and backed Donald Trump 100%. Personally, I | :08:38. | :08:43. | |
wouldn't have even spoken about the American election, because I think | :08:44. | :08:45. | |
the two candidates are quite appalling. Some up for us. If you | :08:46. | :08:52. | |
win, what would be the hallmark of your Ukip leadership? The first | :08:53. | :08:57. | |
couple of months would be ensuring that Ukip unifies. Saying no to | :08:58. | :09:03. | |
factions, bringing people together. Suzanne Evans, Nigel Farage, all of | :09:04. | :09:08. | |
the MEPs, and ensuring that Ukip can move forward. If we don't unify, | :09:09. | :09:13. | |
Ukip will not be around for much longer. Thanks for being with us | :09:14. | :09:14. | |
this morning. We won't have to wait too long | :09:15. | :09:17. | |
to find out who Ukip's new leader will be - | :09:18. | :09:20. | |
the winner will be announced Who would be the best leader for | :09:21. | :09:30. | |
Ukip? I think the difference between the field a few weeks ago and today | :09:31. | :09:34. | |
is that this field is a lot stronger. Whether it's Paul or | :09:35. | :09:41. | |
Suzanne, I think... It is hard to say, with Aaron Banks and apparently | :09:42. | :09:50. | |
Nigel Farage hacking another candidate, Raheem, but I want Ukip | :09:51. | :09:57. | |
to be a strong force in British politics. I think the fact there is | :09:58. | :10:04. | |
a stronger field now is good news for Ukip. Is it a Labour's worst | :10:05. | :10:11. | |
nightmare in the north of England? It is. I think the personality | :10:12. | :10:17. | |
difference and presentational difference is interesting. Suzanne | :10:18. | :10:21. | |
Evans is going for the Conservative county vote. There's a lot to be | :10:22. | :10:26. | |
taken there by Ukip. He would probably be more appealing to the | :10:27. | :10:32. | |
Labour vote. It is interesting. At the moment, pollsters say that the | :10:33. | :10:39. | |
Ukip vote splits pretty easily between Labour and Tory. But things | :10:40. | :10:51. | |
always collapse. When they have made inroads into Tower Hamlets and | :10:52. | :10:54. | |
Barking, they collapse, because they fight amongst each other so much. | :10:55. | :11:03. | |
But not always with fists! Does Ukip have a future? And who would best | :11:04. | :11:11. | |
secure that future? It does for at least two years, until we Brexit. We | :11:12. | :11:14. | |
have to believe that that will happen. That was an impressive pitch | :11:15. | :11:21. | |
there from Paul, certainly as the unity candidate, after the car crash | :11:22. | :11:25. | |
we have seen on TV screens this morning. But it doesn't go beyond | :11:26. | :11:31. | |
May 20 19. What then? There is no point being called the United | :11:32. | :11:33. | |
Kingdom Independence party any longer. What will happen after May | :11:34. | :11:41. | |
2019? If you want to hoover up votes of the back of Brexit, you need to | :11:42. | :11:46. | |
start looking further ahead than two years. The person who wins that | :11:47. | :11:50. | |
leadership contest is the person who will sum that up the best. We shall | :11:51. | :11:53. | |
see. In June 2014, the group which calls | :11:54. | :11:55. | |
itself the Islamic State in Iraq and the Levant captured Iraq's | :11:56. | :11:58. | |
second city, Mosul. Later that month the group announced | :11:59. | :12:00. | |
it was establishing a 'caliphate', or an Islamic state, | :12:01. | :12:03. | |
on the territories it This week 30,000 Iraqi troops, aided | :12:04. | :12:05. | |
by Iranian-backed Shia fighters, Kurdish Peshmerga and Western air | :12:06. | :12:14. | |
support, began the assault Then they spot a truck bomb | :12:15. | :12:19. | |
from so-called Islamic State. They destroy it before | :12:20. | :12:37. | |
it destroys them. These are the first steps | :12:38. | :12:42. | |
in the battle for Mosul, the Northern Iraqi city IS has | :12:43. | :12:45. | |
made its stronghold since 2014. Controlling the city of around | :12:46. | :12:50. | |
2 million people means that they established governance, | :12:51. | :12:54. | |
they establish a territorial base. This is what has obsessed everyone, | :12:55. | :12:58. | |
because with a territorial base you are capable of doing more | :12:59. | :13:02. | |
than if you are simply an insurgency movement in the fabric | :13:03. | :13:06. | |
of another society. It's being billed as the biggest | :13:07. | :13:11. | |
military operation in Iraq since the war in 2003, the biggest | :13:12. | :13:14. | |
moment in the international effort Here is how the various forces | :13:15. | :13:18. | |
are approaching the city. Heading to Mosul from the south, | :13:19. | :13:24. | |
the elite troops of the Iraqi army. Known as the Golden division, | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
trained and accompanied From the North, a force made up | :13:29. | :13:30. | |
of Kurds, known as the Peshmerga, Also from the South, | :13:31. | :13:37. | |
a militia made up of Shia fighters who have been accused | :13:38. | :13:43. | |
of human rights abuses. British planes have bombed outlying | :13:44. | :13:46. | |
villages, reportedly guided in by British personnel | :13:47. | :13:49. | |
on the ground. To the North West, a corridor | :13:50. | :13:56. | |
has been left for some of the 3000 plus IS fighters, | :13:57. | :13:59. | |
in theory an escape route which could limit the bloodshed | :14:00. | :14:02. | |
when fighting starts in the city. We've had 4-5 days of battle | :14:03. | :14:05. | |
and it's taking place in the outlying villages | :14:06. | :14:07. | |
and there have been some successes and some failures, | :14:08. | :14:09. | |
but the momentum is building. And the real question will be | :14:10. | :14:13. | |
when the attackers get towards the city itself, | :14:14. | :14:15. | |
how strong are the defences? It will crack but it might crack | :14:16. | :14:19. | |
within 48 hours or 2-3 weeks. IS has fought back, | :14:20. | :14:27. | |
on Friday they attack sites in the city of Kirkuk, | :14:28. | :14:31. | |
including a power station. The United Nations believes hundreds | :14:32. | :14:33. | |
of thousands of families have been rounded up | :14:34. | :14:36. | |
as potential human shields. The battle could be bloody, | :14:37. | :14:38. | |
but what about when it's over? The Shia militias, the Iraqi army, | :14:39. | :14:43. | |
the Peshmerga guerrillas, some of the Turkish elements, | :14:44. | :14:45. | |
they all want a share of the action. They are in Mosul, not | :14:46. | :14:49. | |
for altruistic reasons. They are there because they want | :14:50. | :14:52. | |
to be part of whatever happens next. The biggest issue is how the Sunni | :14:53. | :14:55. | |
majority in Mosul reacts to the Shia militias which have | :14:56. | :15:00. | |
helped to liberate them. ARCHIVE FOOTAGE: When Sir Francis | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
Humphrey went to Mosul If it all seems like something | :15:05. | :15:06. | |
from the archive, when the Middle East went up in flames | :15:07. | :15:10. | |
and was then carved up, it is because that is what is | :15:11. | :15:13. | |
happening in Iraq right now. National identity has been cut | :15:14. | :15:17. | |
across by other identities such And that means that putting together | :15:18. | :15:21. | |
a so-called nation state again Almost certainly there will be | :15:22. | :15:32. | |
a new form of Kurdish state, almost certainly in northern Iraq | :15:33. | :15:37. | |
at the end of this crisis, and what is happening in Mosul | :15:38. | :15:41. | |
is a microcosm of what is happening elsewhere across the Levant | :15:42. | :15:44. | |
which is that it is melting down. Big questions, questions that | :15:45. | :15:47. | |
come after the battle. The coalition forces are advancing | :15:48. | :15:50. | |
but this is just the beginning. I'm joined now by the International | :15:51. | :15:53. | |
Development Minister Rory Stewart. In a former life he was | :15:54. | :16:02. | |
the coalition Deputy-Governor of two provinces in Southern Iraq following | :16:03. | :16:05. | |
the Iraq intervention of 2003. Is there any doubt that at some | :16:06. | :16:20. | |
stage Mosul will fall to the forces of Iraq and its allies? The first | :16:21. | :16:31. | |
thing is that war is very uncertain and there are cliches about it being | :16:32. | :16:33. | |
the graveyard of predictions and we don't want to make confident | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
predictions but the basic structure is that there are 30,000 Iraqi | :16:38. | :16:45. | |
forces outside and only a few thousand Daesh fighters inside and I | :16:46. | :16:51. | |
would say it is overwhelmingly likely that the batter will one | :16:52. | :17:00. | |
STUDIO: -- the battle the won by the Iraqi forces. | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
June 2014 was a great success, they took a city of over in people and | :17:05. | :17:12. | |
they created what they tried to create a million state of 7 million | :17:13. | :17:16. | |
people, stretching across the Iraqi Syrian border, but since then they | :17:17. | :17:20. | |
have lost territory quite rapidly. Now they are losing the outskirts of | :17:21. | :17:24. | |
Mosul, and that is a fundamental blow. Islamic State is all about | :17:25. | :17:28. | |
territory and holding state, that is what makes it different from | :17:29. | :17:32. | |
Al-Qaeda. If they lose Mosul that will be a cynic -- significant blow | :17:33. | :17:40. | |
to their credibility. Hillary Clinton said on Wednesday's | :17:41. | :17:43. | |
presidential debate that when Iraqi forces with their allies including | :17:44. | :17:46. | |
the United Kingdom gain control of Mosul they should continue to press | :17:47. | :17:53. | |
into Syria to take back Raqqa which is the de facto capital of the | :17:54. | :17:58. | |
caliphate, what is left of it, do we want Iraqi forces to pursue IS into | :17:59. | :18:05. | |
Syria? Very important question. Delayed in Raqqa needs to come from | :18:06. | :18:10. | |
people on the Syrian side of the border and that is an important | :18:11. | :18:15. | |
principle -- the lead. In the end of that enemy, Islamic State, is a | :18:16. | :18:20. | |
common enemy for odd members of the coalition including the Iraqi | :18:21. | :18:27. | |
government. -- all members. There is likely to be a humanitarian crisis | :18:28. | :18:31. | |
especially if it ends up with street to street fighting and IS are | :18:32. | :18:34. | |
difficult to dislodge what are we doing about that? We are doing very | :18:35. | :18:40. | |
detailed scenario planning. It is very uncertain what the scenario | :18:41. | :18:44. | |
will be but much investment has gone into creating a network of camps, | :18:45. | :18:53. | |
refugees STUDIO: Refugee camps around cash refugee camps, and that | :18:54. | :19:01. | |
is where money, British money, ?40 million has gone recently into | :19:02. | :19:04. | |
supporting that, especially in terms of medical support to people. The | :19:05. | :19:12. | |
United nation's emergency response budget is ?196 million but only one | :19:13. | :19:15. | |
third funded which sounds like we are putting up a big chunk of what | :19:16. | :19:19. | |
is already being funded. Why is that? The international committee | :19:20. | :19:23. | |
can't say they haven't seen this assault coming, and the humanitarian | :19:24. | :19:28. | |
fallout they may see from it. You are absolutely right. We have seen | :19:29. | :19:33. | |
it coming and we have been planning since debris and we have put in | :19:34. | :19:37. | |
about ?167 million into this -- planning since February. There has | :19:38. | :19:42. | |
been a change in the nature of the appeal, and if there is a lag in the | :19:43. | :19:46. | |
accounting of it, but the money we need at this stage is in place and | :19:47. | :19:49. | |
we do have the support structure in place for those refugees. You are | :19:50. | :19:54. | |
right the United Nations is continuing with its appeal and is | :19:55. | :19:58. | |
asking for more money at the moment. The converse magazine wrote this | :19:59. | :20:01. | |
week that preparations for a big exodus of people leaving the city | :20:02. | :20:05. | |
have been made -- Economist magazine. But confidence is not high | :20:06. | :20:11. | |
in the preparations, is that a unfair conclusion? If you can | :20:12. | :20:16. | |
imagine the different scenarios, it could be a few thousand and it could | :20:17. | :20:19. | |
be a few hundred thousand coming out of the city through a front line | :20:20. | :20:22. | |
where the war is going on, that is very difficult. You have to screen | :20:23. | :20:27. | |
those people and disarm them, and keep families together, and | :20:28. | :20:31. | |
transport them and you have to bring them into the refugee camps. The | :20:32. | :20:35. | |
people working on this have been working on this for long time, we | :20:36. | :20:38. | |
have mapped the different routes we have good camp infrastructure in | :20:39. | :20:45. | |
place and we have people who have worked in south to dam and other | :20:46. | :20:49. | |
areas who are putting their structures in place -- South Sudan. | :20:50. | :20:53. | |
It is never easy but I think we have done everything we can in the | :20:54. | :20:56. | |
preparation for this. What is the British role in what will probably | :20:57. | :21:03. | |
be an even bigger issue, assuming that Mosul is liberated and retaken, | :21:04. | :21:09. | |
the humanitarian crisis is dealt with, what role will we play in the | :21:10. | :21:14. | |
rebuilding of Mosul? That will be crucial to the future of Iraq, the | :21:15. | :21:18. | |
second-biggest city and it will need to be rebuilt. It will need to be | :21:19. | :21:24. | |
rebuilt as a community as well as bricks and mortar. And eight Sunni | :21:25. | :21:29. | |
community that is not harassed by the Shia. -- and eight. You are | :21:30. | :21:37. | |
right. One of the core drivers is that the Sunni community felt | :21:38. | :21:39. | |
excluded and they did not feel they have the trust from the Baghdad | :21:40. | :21:44. | |
government. A lasting solution is stopping some of Islamic State | :21:45. | :21:51. | |
coming back, that involves making sure the Sunni community have a | :21:52. | :21:56. | |
stake in their future. That is making sure that the governing | :21:57. | :22:00. | |
structures are in place. The UK's response is twofold, we have got to | :22:01. | :22:05. | |
get the humanitarian aid right, that is the short term, people who might | :22:06. | :22:08. | |
be malnourished, coming out of the front line. The second thing is | :22:09. | :22:13. | |
working with the Iraqi government to make sure that as we rebuild Mosul | :22:14. | :22:18. | |
we do so in a way that that population feels a connection to the | :22:19. | :22:23. | |
Iraqi state. Islamic State is losing territory everywhere in the Levant, | :22:24. | :22:28. | |
it is almost finished in Iraq, we think. It is down to one district in | :22:29. | :22:34. | |
Libya, as well, just one small part of the town. I suppose the risk is, | :22:35. | :22:40. | |
if life is becoming more difficult across these areas, it can start to | :22:41. | :22:45. | |
look more in Europe and the United Kingdom as a place to continue its | :22:46. | :22:49. | |
terrorist attacks? That is a real danger. You are right. This is a | :22:50. | :22:55. | |
group which has proved over the last five years very unpredictable and it | :22:56. | :22:59. | |
changes for it quickly full stop often it does unexpected things. In | :23:00. | :23:05. | |
2009 its predecessor had been largely wiped out in Iraq and when | :23:06. | :23:10. | |
it was under pressure in Syria it went back into Iraq, and in the past | :23:11. | :23:14. | |
it didn't hold territory but now it holds territory, so you are right. | :23:15. | :23:18. | |
There is a serious risk that as it gets squeezed in the middle East it | :23:19. | :23:22. | |
will try to pop up somewhere else and Mac could include Europe and the | :23:23. | :23:27. | |
United States -- that could. They say that is something they have | :23:28. | :23:31. | |
focused on full stop we also have a big focus on counterterrorism | :23:32. | :23:35. | |
security and making sure that we keep the United Kingdom and Europe | :23:36. | :23:43. | |
say. One final question. -- say. -- safe. Maybe events in Mosul could | :23:44. | :23:49. | |
add to the migration crisis in Europe, is that a possibility? | :23:50. | :23:55. | |
Again, you are right, we have seen in Syria it can push migration, the | :23:56. | :24:00. | |
biggest push the migration was the conflict in Syria, and that's the | :24:01. | :24:03. | |
reason why we have but so much energy into getting those refugee | :24:04. | :24:08. | |
camps in place and getting the humanitarian response in place -- | :24:09. | :24:12. | |
put so much energy. People will want to remain in their homes, this is | :24:13. | :24:15. | |
their country, but we have got to make it possible for them and that | :24:16. | :24:18. | |
means in the short term looking after their shelter and in the | :24:19. | :24:23. | |
medium to long-term making sure they have livelihoods, jobs and an | :24:24. | :24:27. | |
economic development which is why our support in Iraq is in the UK | :24:28. | :24:31. | |
National interests because it deals with these issues of migration and | :24:32. | :24:38. | |
terrorists. Thanks for joining us. I'm joined now by the Shadow Defence | :24:39. | :24:41. | |
Secretary. Does Labour support British | :24:42. | :24:58. | |
participation in this offensive? We fully support the participation in | :24:59. | :25:02. | |
this offensive, extremely important move forward and we voted for this | :25:03. | :25:08. | |
back in 2014. We are asking the government question is, of course, I | :25:09. | :25:11. | |
was asking the Secretary of State this week about this very offensive | :25:12. | :25:18. | |
but we are fully behind our RAF pilots out there and be trading that | :25:19. | :25:21. | |
has been going on to help the forces on the ground. -- the training full | :25:22. | :25:27. | |
stop that is very clear. I wonder if you'll lead it shares that clarity | :25:28. | :25:32. | |
and that position. -- is your leader. This is what Jeremy Corbyn | :25:33. | :25:35. | |
has said. What's been done in Iraq | :25:36. | :25:37. | |
is done by the Iraqi government, and currently | :25:38. | :25:39. | |
supported by the British government. I did not support it | :25:40. | :25:41. | |
when it came up. Well, I'm not sure how successful | :25:42. | :25:44. | |
it's been, because most of the action now appears to be | :25:45. | :25:47. | |
moving in to Syria, so I think we He doesn't sound very supportive. | :25:48. | :25:59. | |
The issue about Mosul, it has been very carefully prepared as Rory | :26:00. | :26:01. | |
Stewart said and I hope we have learned the lessons from previous | :26:02. | :26:07. | |
offensives where we haven't learnt sufficiently, and that is going to | :26:08. | :26:11. | |
be crucial in this context. How the aftermath is going to be dealt with. | :26:12. | :26:17. | |
Of course will stop that clip was from November last year, and things | :26:18. | :26:22. | |
have changed. Two weeks ago he told the BBC" I'm not sure it is | :26:23. | :26:27. | |
working", in reference to air strikes in Iraq, but it is working. | :26:28. | :26:32. | |
We have got to see what happens in Mosul, it is a very high-risk | :26:33. | :26:35. | |
operation, but we also have to face the fact that the people there are | :26:36. | :26:40. | |
living under tyranny at the moment. We have to ask very cirrus question | :26:41. | :26:47. | |
shall stop he says he's not sure it is working, when Mosul is the last | :26:48. | :26:50. | |
major target be cleared of Islamic State in Iraq. The combination of | :26:51. | :26:55. | |
Allied air power has worked, why is he not sure it is working? Because | :26:56. | :26:59. | |
we have seen difficulties in the past. But this was two weeks ago. It | :27:00. | :27:05. | |
is essential that the work is done, both planning for the refugees as | :27:06. | :27:08. | |
Rory Stewart referred to, but also in terms of reconstruction of the | :27:09. | :27:11. | |
city and its community as you mentioned. These are vital. This was | :27:12. | :27:18. | |
about the ability to make progress with Allied air power, special | :27:19. | :27:22. | |
forces in Iraq, on the ground, do you accept so far that has a | :27:23. | :27:27. | |
strategy that seems to be working to read Iraq of Islamic -- to read Iraq | :27:28. | :27:39. | |
of Islamic State the question of the car began placement. Ulloa -- we | :27:40. | :27:52. | |
can't be complacent. The problems they are creating where ever they | :27:53. | :27:55. | |
are urged that we must continue to pursue them. This is the first time | :27:56. | :28:01. | |
we have spoken to since you have become the Shadow Defence Secretary. | :28:02. | :28:03. | |
I hope we will have a longer interview. Will Labour's next | :28:04. | :28:09. | |
manifesto include a commitment to the renewal of Trident? It will. We | :28:10. | :28:15. | |
made that commitment in 2007, that is a firm commitment and we will | :28:16. | :28:19. | |
honour that to our coalition allies and our industrial partners and that | :28:20. | :28:21. | |
is the vote which was taken democratically and repeatedly has | :28:22. | :28:25. | |
been reaffirmed by Labour conference and we are a democratic party vote | :28:26. | :28:31. | |
up you have squared that with Jeremy Corbyn? He's in favour of democracy | :28:32. | :28:37. | |
and he understands the situation, but we also want to push for the UK | :28:38. | :28:41. | |
to play a much bigger role on the international stage on multilateral | :28:42. | :28:46. | |
disarmament talks. You were very clear there, I thank you for that. | :28:47. | :28:51. | |
Support for Trident will be in the next Labour manifesto. What has | :28:52. | :28:55. | |
happened to Labour's review of Trident policy? That review has been | :28:56. | :29:01. | |
taking place over the year, we had a very clear reaffirmation in the | :29:02. | :29:05. | |
conference boat this year, we are reaffirming our commitment to | :29:06. | :29:09. | |
Trident -- vote. The review can't change that? There is a process of | :29:10. | :29:15. | |
review and a fair number of issues related to defence, all parties do | :29:16. | :29:21. | |
this. Of course. The review can't change the commitment to Trident? We | :29:22. | :29:25. | |
are not changing the commitment to Trident. Russia is now the main | :29:26. | :29:31. | |
strategic threat to this country? It is a major strategic threat and we | :29:32. | :29:34. | |
have got to work with our Nato allies very closely and make sure | :29:35. | :29:37. | |
that we respond and that we do not let things pass. For example, we | :29:38. | :29:42. | |
should be calling out Russia for the way it has been a bombing | :29:43. | :29:47. | |
humanitarian aid and we should be taking them to international court | :29:48. | :29:50. | |
over this, but we should also be strengthening sanctions, somewhat | :29:51. | :29:57. | |
imposed over Ukraine. We try to do that, but the Italians wouldn't let | :29:58. | :30:02. | |
us. The Italians did not want to participate in the European | :30:03. | :30:04. | |
initiative but that doesn't stop individual countries for the Britain | :30:05. | :30:11. | |
should step up? Yes, we should look at what is practical to impose. | :30:12. | :30:13. | |
Thanks for joining us. Mosul is not the only major battle | :30:14. | :30:19. | |
being waged in the Middle East. The city of Aleppo in northern Syria | :30:20. | :30:22. | |
has seen some of the heaviest bombardment since Syria's | :30:23. | :30:25. | |
five-year-long civil war began. This week Russian warships, | :30:26. | :30:28. | |
in a deliberate show of power, sailed west through the English | :30:29. | :30:31. | |
channel en route to Syria. Nato says it's Russia's "largest | :30:32. | :30:35. | |
surface deployment" since the end of the Cold War in what is thought | :30:36. | :30:38. | |
to be preparation for a final assault | :30:39. | :30:41. | |
on the besieged city of Aleppo. In the city itself fighting | :30:42. | :30:45. | |
resumed overnight - following a 3-day ceasefire - | :30:46. | :30:49. | |
with more air strikes and heavy clashes in the city's | :30:50. | :30:54. | |
rebel-held eastern districts. Almost 500 people have been | :30:55. | :30:57. | |
killed and 2,000 injured since Syrian government forces, | :30:58. | :31:00. | |
backed by Russian air strikes, This week Theresa May condemned | :31:01. | :31:04. | |
Vladimir Putin's involvement in Syria, accusing Moscow | :31:05. | :31:12. | |
of being behind "sickening atrocities" in support | :31:13. | :31:14. | |
of President Assad's regime. But European leaders are divided | :31:15. | :31:18. | |
on how to respond and, with the United States preoccupied | :31:19. | :31:22. | |
with domestic politics, President Putin senses this | :31:23. | :31:24. | |
is his moment to bring the Syrian I'm joined now by the BBC's former | :31:25. | :31:28. | |
Diplomatic and Moscow Correspondent, Bridget Kendall, who is now Master | :31:29. | :31:36. | |
of Peterhouse College in Cambridge. Welcome. Good to see you in the BBC | :31:37. | :31:50. | |
studio again. Let me put up this satellite image of Aleppo here, to | :31:51. | :31:56. | |
get an idea of the scale. It was the biggest city in Syria. It was the | :31:57. | :32:01. | |
commercial capital and a huge cultural hub as well. Almost the New | :32:02. | :32:06. | |
York of Syria, to give you an idea of its significance to the country. | :32:07. | :32:12. | |
Let me show you now how it's been divided. The rebels are now in | :32:13. | :32:16. | |
control of the eastern part, about eight miles long and three miles | :32:17. | :32:23. | |
wide there, they're in purple. They are under great attacks still. Is it | :32:24. | :32:27. | |
inevitable that that purple part falls to the regime? That is what | :32:28. | :32:37. | |
President as Saad, the Russians and the Iranians hope. The fierce | :32:38. | :32:42. | |
bombardments we have seen is part of that. I'm reminded very much in the | :32:43. | :32:47. | |
Russian tactics of what happened in grudgingly in Chechnya in 2000, when | :32:48. | :32:52. | |
the Russians said, a warning for all civilians to lead, and then they | :32:53. | :32:58. | |
went ahead and they basically raised it to the ground. They are talking | :32:59. | :33:02. | |
about Al Nusrah as being one of the rebel groups. They got rid of all of | :33:03. | :33:08. | |
the terrorists. They talk about it being an Al-Qaeda offshoot. The | :33:09. | :33:12. | |
purpose of going in is to get rid of them. You get the civilians out and | :33:13. | :33:17. | |
then you take it. But this isn't like Chechnya. It is much more | :33:18. | :33:22. | |
complex. We have seen an attempt to take Aleppo before, and then there | :33:23. | :33:26. | |
was a rebel counter offensive. It's not so certain. And there are so | :33:27. | :33:30. | |
many different parties involved. We have seen the alarm in the west of | :33:31. | :33:35. | |
the extent of the civilian casualties. There have been | :33:36. | :33:45. | |
rumblings in the west of, shouldn't the United States do something? | :33:46. | :33:47. | |
Shouldn't they stop the Syrian air force? This Russian aircraft carrier | :33:48. | :33:51. | |
steaming its way towards the Eastern Mediterranean is a symbolic gesture, | :33:52. | :33:56. | |
both to its own people, but also to the West, to say, don't get involved | :33:57. | :34:02. | |
in Aleppo if we go ahead. Don't try and stop us because we could up the | :34:03. | :34:08. | |
ante. They have not been great visual pictures, because the | :34:09. | :34:12. | |
aircraft carrier looks a bit clapped out, belching out smoke! If the | :34:13. | :34:19. | |
rebel controlled area does fall, it would be seen as a great victory for | :34:20. | :34:24. | |
President as Saad and his Russian allies. What is the aim of Russia | :34:25. | :34:29. | |
here? What would they then do, if Aleppo Falls? It is part of a plan | :34:30. | :34:33. | |
that President Putin set out in his UN speech in 2014, before Russia | :34:34. | :34:40. | |
went into Syria. The aim is to put President Assad back in charge. | :34:41. | :34:43. | |
President Putin said this weekend that either is Assad in Damascus, or | :34:44. | :34:49. | |
its Al Nusrah. There is nothing in between. They want to eliminate the | :34:50. | :34:53. | |
argument for a moderate opposition. They want to make it plain that the | :34:54. | :34:59. | |
only way to get a stable Syria is to have Assad back in charge. Even sue | :35:00. | :35:07. | |
argue for a rump steak lit, leaving aside what is happening with IAS. | :35:08. | :35:16. | |
They have already said they want to have an enlarged military presence | :35:17. | :35:20. | |
at their bases. And they have a big naval base. It is. It is a chance to | :35:21. | :35:27. | |
push for this when he sees the West is being distracted and divided. | :35:28. | :35:34. | |
Europe and America, by elections and so on. Just before the US elections. | :35:35. | :35:39. | |
The Americans are worried about that, Europeans are being distracted | :35:40. | :35:44. | |
by Brexit. He can push to his maximum advantage now, before there | :35:45. | :35:49. | |
is a new US president. If they do take that part of Aleppo, and that | :35:50. | :35:59. | |
part of northern Syria, does Mr Putin want us to recognise, to | :36:00. | :36:04. | |
admit, that that is now his sphere of influence? I think the rhetoric | :36:05. | :36:09. | |
from the Russians is that they want the West to recognise that they are | :36:10. | :36:14. | |
an equal powerful partner. It's not just the US that runs the writ in | :36:15. | :36:19. | |
the Middle East. Russia is as important as it is. It is engaging | :36:20. | :36:25. | |
with Saudi Arabia and has mended fences with Turkey. Syria is the | :36:26. | :36:30. | |
place from which it can launch its message that it is a big player in | :36:31. | :36:35. | |
the Middle East. Russia wants the West to understand that this isn't a | :36:36. | :36:40. | |
country that was dismembered after the end of the Soviet Union and is | :36:41. | :36:45. | |
now a week. It is back, and it is strong. That is an important | :36:46. | :36:51. | |
message. Looking at the economy. It is in recession. GDP has been | :36:52. | :36:55. | |
falling, partly because of the price of oil. It is highly dependent on | :36:56. | :37:01. | |
hydrocarbons, and is expected to fall again. Its people are falling | :37:02. | :37:06. | |
again. People don't realise how small the Russian economy is. Its | :37:07. | :37:11. | |
GDP is about the size of Italy's. It is smaller than the UK economy. | :37:12. | :37:17. | |
Bigger than it was 15 or 20 years ago. But so is Britain's does it | :37:18. | :37:26. | |
help to take people's mind of this? A huge shock to the Russian economy | :37:27. | :37:32. | |
was a drop in the price of oil and a price of gas. A drop in the price of | :37:33. | :37:38. | |
the ruble as well. This is hurting the people of Russia. On the one | :37:39. | :37:43. | |
hand, it is the war in Syria, which is very important for Russia to sort | :37:44. | :37:47. | |
out that part of the world and dispensed terrorists who might be | :37:48. | :37:55. | |
danger to -- is dangerous to Russia. But he had also has presidential | :37:56. | :38:00. | |
election is going up. They are supposed to be 2018, but some feel | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
he will bring them forward to 2017, because the economy is not doing so | :38:06. | :38:10. | |
well. But you need a good story for the Russian people. Thank you very | :38:11. | :38:11. | |
much. We say goodbye to viewers | :38:12. | :38:14. | |
in Scotland who leave us now Hi, Marie, how are you? | :38:15. | :38:40. | |
George! A warm welcome home for the local | :38:41. | :38:44. | |
MP, but did this backbencher I don't think, you know now, | :38:45. | :38:47. | |
I properly understood the sense that people had in many communities | :38:48. | :38:51. | |
and I think many people used the EU And here for their weekly | :38:52. | :38:54. | |
confessional are Andrew Bingham, the Conservative MP for High Peak, | :38:55. | :38:57. | |
and Barbara Keeley, the Labour MP for Worsley and Eccles South, | :38:58. | :39:00. | |
who was recently promoted to Shadow Minister for | :39:01. | :39:02. | |
Mental Health and Social Care. So, Barbara, why have | :39:03. | :39:04. | |
you be joined the Cabinet? So, Barbara, why have | :39:05. | :39:06. | |
you rejoined the Cabinet? I actually wasn't in | :39:07. | :39:08. | |
the Cabinet before. I really have worked on social care | :39:09. | :39:10. | |
and believe that the issues that now in a role to take forward | :39:11. | :39:15. | |
are the most important issues I'm very pleased to be | :39:16. | :39:18. | |
offered that job. Labour this week said that | :39:19. | :39:21. | |
Angela Eagle's complaints were upheld about homophobic abuse. | :39:22. | :39:23. | |
I know. And they said that the Wallasey | :39:24. | :39:26. | |
constituency party was divided and toxic. | :39:27. | :39:28. | |
Do you think it is? Well, I don't know personally, | :39:29. | :39:33. | |
but clearly no MP should have that situation in their local party | :39:34. | :39:36. | |
and I support Angela as a colleague, she's a great colleague, | :39:37. | :39:39. | |
she doesn't deserve to have abuse of any sort, particularly | :39:40. | :39:41. | |
not homophobic abuse, What about the party | :39:42. | :39:43. | |
more broadly, though? Well, we don't have that | :39:44. | :39:48. | |
so much in Salford. It's difficult to say when it's | :39:49. | :39:52. | |
not your own local situation, but I think we've been through not | :39:53. | :39:59. | |
the easiest of summers, have we? And I think it's important | :40:00. | :40:06. | |
now that we unite. We've got an enormous job in front | :40:07. | :40:08. | |
of us in Parliament and holding the government to account, | :40:09. | :40:11. | |
in my case in terms And, you know, really we need | :40:12. | :40:14. | |
to get on with doing that. Andrew, your party appears to be | :40:15. | :40:18. | |
split about whether we should MPs and ministers saying | :40:19. | :40:20. | |
that they should get on with it before Brexit | :40:21. | :40:24. | |
start causing a problem. I don't think we should | :40:25. | :40:26. | |
have an early election at all, I don't think the party | :40:27. | :40:32. | |
is split on it. I speak to colleagues and, | :40:33. | :40:34. | |
no, we don't want The General Election is 2020, | :40:35. | :40:36. | |
the Fixed-term Parliaments Act took care of that and, | :40:37. | :40:39. | |
following the Brexit. The last thing we need is more | :40:40. | :40:43. | |
uncertainty with the General Election, so I would not | :40:44. | :40:47. | |
support a General Election until when it is scheduled in 2020, | :40:48. | :40:49. | |
which is what As Barbara's in-box gets busier, | :40:50. | :40:52. | |
one local MP with less The former Chancellor is now | :40:53. | :40:56. | |
a backbencher after Theresa May Our Cheshire reporter, Phil McCann, | :40:57. | :41:00. | |
caught up with Mr Osborne in his Tatton constituency to chat | :41:01. | :41:03. | |
through Brexit, boundary changes Hi, Marie, how are you? | :41:04. | :41:05. | |
George! I'm fine. | :41:06. | :41:12. | |
Aw, it's great to see you. It's a cafe, it's a community | :41:13. | :41:15. | |
centre, it's a place where people, if they want help getting a job, | :41:16. | :41:25. | |
come, you look after our elderly residents, | :41:26. | :41:28. | |
look after young people. 59-year-old carpenter | :41:29. | :41:32. | |
from Newcastle-upon-Tyne, grafted all his life | :41:33. | :41:35. | |
and couldn't get a penny! It gives you time to think a bit | :41:36. | :41:40. | |
about life, think about what you can do for the community you represent, | :41:41. | :41:44. | |
think about mistakes I've made and how we can put them right, | :41:45. | :41:48. | |
not least, you know, why the country voted the way | :41:49. | :41:52. | |
it did in the referendum that You can't talk about mistakes | :41:53. | :41:56. | |
you've made without me asking Look, I don't think, you know, | :41:57. | :42:00. | |
I properly understood the sense that people had in many communities, | :42:01. | :42:10. | |
particularly in the North of England, that they were completely | :42:11. | :42:13. | |
disconnected from the system and from the way | :42:14. | :42:15. | |
our country is governed, that they felt angry about things, | :42:16. | :42:19. | |
and I think many people used the EU referendum | :42:20. | :42:22. | |
to express that anger. I aim to form a proper and full | :42:23. | :42:24. | |
coalition between the Conservatives When I became the Chancellor | :42:25. | :42:27. | |
in 2010, the country was in an economic crisis | :42:28. | :42:35. | |
and all of my efforts, my energy, But having fixed the economy, | :42:36. | :42:38. | |
then it's the chance to say, "Well, what can we do for | :42:39. | :42:46. | |
communities who feel left behind?" You know, sometimes the statistics | :42:47. | :42:53. | |
can I think mask economic insecurity out there, | :42:54. | :42:56. | |
that isn't always obvious. Tonight at Ten, the radical plans | :42:57. | :42:57. | |
to change the parliamentary The plans would mean, for example, | :42:58. | :43:00. | |
Wales losing a quarter of its seats and dozens of MPs, | :43:01. | :43:06. | |
including Jeremy Corbyn and George Osborne, looking | :43:07. | :43:08. | |
for a new constituency. You know, the communities don't | :43:09. | :43:12. | |
disappear, they're still here, and I am going to absolutely | :43:13. | :43:17. | |
be determined to represent a Cheshire constituency | :43:18. | :43:20. | |
at the next General Election and then, of course, it will be | :43:21. | :43:22. | |
up to the people of Cheshire Which would inevitably | :43:23. | :43:26. | |
mean you having to fight it out with somebody, | :43:27. | :43:31. | |
because there's going to be one fewer seat. | :43:32. | :43:33. | |
Let's see what happens. But I'm pretty confident, | :43:34. | :43:35. | |
not only that we'll go on having great Conservative MPs in Cheshire, | :43:36. | :43:38. | |
but I will be one of And you won't be disappearing off | :43:39. | :43:40. | |
to some safe seat in the South? More than 2,000 jobs to go | :43:41. | :43:45. | |
in Cheshire as AstraZeneca I'm told last-minute intervention | :43:46. | :43:48. | |
from the local MP, one George Osborne, stopped | :43:49. | :43:54. | |
the company's real intentions - That was a really very difficult | :43:55. | :43:57. | |
day, but this facility is amazing and the stuff happening | :43:58. | :44:04. | |
here is better than anything The Northern Powerhouse | :44:05. | :44:06. | |
is what I want to be remembered for, There was a member of Parliament | :44:07. | :44:14. | |
who threw everything in to reversing that North-South gap, | :44:15. | :44:19. | |
getting the cities and counties of the North working together | :44:20. | :44:21. | |
and, as a result, make a difference Philip Hammond is the Chancellor, | :44:22. | :44:24. | |
so Philip Hammond moves from the Foreign Office to | :44:25. | :44:29. | |
next door, into Number 11. I can also tell you he's resigned | :44:30. | :44:34. | |
from the government, that's what we're hearing, | :44:35. | :44:37. | |
that Osborne is not going to get a job in the government, | :44:38. | :44:40. | |
or he's been offered one and hasn't taken it, | :44:41. | :44:44. | |
but we understand that he has And would you to serve | :44:45. | :44:46. | |
in the Cabinet and possibly I'm happy where I am at the moment, | :44:47. | :44:50. | |
doing my job. It's very refreshing to get out | :44:51. | :44:53. | |
of the armoured cars, get out of the gates, from behind | :44:54. | :44:56. | |
the gates of Downing Street, and go back to what in the end | :44:57. | :45:00. | |
the job is all about, which is representing | :45:01. | :45:03. | |
an area in Parliament But you wouldn't say no | :45:04. | :45:05. | |
if you asked, though? But you wouldn't say no | :45:06. | :45:08. | |
if you were asked, though? Phil McCann reporting there, | :45:09. | :45:11. | |
with George Osborne, who thinks the Northern Powerhouse | :45:12. | :45:14. | |
should be his legacy. Well, I mean, from the point of view | :45:15. | :45:16. | |
of Greater Manchester MP, which I am, you know, | :45:17. | :45:20. | |
it's good to have the powers that you've got over health | :45:21. | :45:23. | |
and social care, which was part of the devolution, | :45:24. | :45:31. | |
but to be honest, the issue We've got a 1.2 billion at least | :45:32. | :45:33. | |
Black hole and the finances for our health and social care. | :45:34. | :45:37. | |
I mean, Northern Powerhouse? All across the North West, | :45:38. | :45:39. | |
our local authorities are really pressed, they had their funding cut, | :45:40. | :45:42. | |
funding has really been cut for social care, | :45:43. | :45:44. | |
so all the things that people really need day-to-day, you know, | :45:45. | :45:47. | |
he's responsible for cutting, and has left us in that state, | :45:48. | :45:49. | |
really, so I don't think Is it that the legacy, then, Andrew? | :45:50. | :45:52. | |
No, I think... He's handed over the powers, | :45:53. | :45:57. | |
but not the money to make it work? I disagree with that, | :45:58. | :46:00. | |
as you would expect. I mean, George was handed a very | :46:01. | :46:02. | |
difficult job back in the days of the coalition government, | :46:03. | :46:05. | |
as the famous letter, But he's already made it possible | :46:06. | :46:07. | |
for councils to have the 2% levy on the council tax for social care, | :46:08. | :46:11. | |
which is good... But it's not enough, | :46:12. | :46:13. | |
that's the point. And there's the Better Care Fund, | :46:14. | :46:15. | |
where there is another "one point something" billion pounds available. | :46:16. | :46:18. | |
In 2019. By 2019, so the money | :46:19. | :46:19. | |
is going in there. But I do think in terms | :46:20. | :46:22. | |
of social care... But Barbara is right in that | :46:23. | :46:25. | |
will not cover the increase in cost But it's putting more | :46:26. | :46:28. | |
money to local councils. The council will become more | :46:29. | :46:31. | |
autonomous as we go on. So they will not be reliant | :46:32. | :46:33. | |
on central government funding. But I do think the whole issue | :46:34. | :46:35. | |
of adult social care, there are several what I would | :46:36. | :46:38. | |
call several unexploded I think adult social care is one | :46:39. | :46:40. | |
that we need to keep looking at. We talk about things | :46:41. | :46:45. | |
like obesity in the young. I think that's something else | :46:46. | :46:47. | |
we need to keep looking at, because they are the things | :46:48. | :46:49. | |
that are going to manifest themselves further down | :46:50. | :46:52. | |
the line in different ways, particularly in terms | :46:53. | :46:54. | |
of the health service as well. Barbara, you can't deny though | :46:55. | :46:56. | |
that he has put the focus on the North? | :46:57. | :46:58. | |
He has talked up the North? He has put the focus on the north, | :46:59. | :47:01. | |
but there's the danger giving powers, which is welcome - | :47:02. | :47:06. | |
I mean, I know that the local council leaders really welcome | :47:07. | :47:09. | |
the powers, in different parts of the North West, Merseyside | :47:10. | :47:11. | |
as well as Greater Manchester - but they are just going to get | :47:12. | :47:13. | |
the blame, you know, If we can't hold health and care | :47:14. | :47:16. | |
together, and it's no good giving finance for social care in 2019, | :47:17. | :47:21. | |
and many councils, like Salford, Manchester, cannot raise enough | :47:22. | :47:23. | |
out of the 2% precept But council leaders are saying | :47:24. | :47:27. | |
finally they have the freedom to decide how to spend | :47:28. | :47:35. | |
the money themselves. Yeah, but you're spending not enough | :47:36. | :47:36. | |
money, and that's no help. I mean, this year, there wasn't | :47:37. | :47:39. | |
enough in that 2% to even pay the National Living Wage increase, | :47:40. | :47:42. | |
which had to be paid, so there's a confusion of policy | :47:43. | :47:45. | |
that come out and yet not the funding and it's not fair, | :47:46. | :47:48. | |
it's not at all reasonable to leave council leaders | :47:49. | :47:50. | |
as being the ones to sort that out. The 2% levy, though, | :47:51. | :47:53. | |
gives the opportunity to raise an extra ?2 billion for social care. | :47:54. | :47:55. | |
But if 2 billion is not enough... But there's the Better Care Fund, | :47:56. | :47:59. | |
which will also put, I think it's about another | :48:00. | :48:01. | |
?1.5 billion... In 2019! | :48:02. | :48:03. | |
..by 2019. But as I said, we need to keep | :48:04. | :48:04. | |
looking at finding ways of doing it and finding better ways | :48:05. | :48:08. | |
of social care. Well, on Twitter, | :48:09. | :48:10. | |
regrets about Brexit. Do you think leading Project Fear | :48:11. | :48:11. | |
was his biggest mistake? I think the whole campaign on the EU | :48:12. | :48:15. | |
referendum, from both sides, had some questions to answer - | :48:16. | :48:18. | |
the comments and statements made I voted to leave the European Union, | :48:19. | :48:21. | |
but I was quite clear with my constituents | :48:22. | :48:26. | |
that it was a referendum, it wasn't an election | :48:27. | :48:30. | |
where I was asking people to vote They were voting for themselves | :48:31. | :48:32. | |
and I made both sides of the arguments to my constituents, | :48:33. | :48:37. | |
make them available, and I was asked by the BBC just | :48:38. | :48:40. | |
before the 23rd of June which way would the High Peak vote and I said | :48:41. | :48:44. | |
I think it'll be very close. My constituency voted marginally | :48:45. | :48:47. | |
by about 600 to leave. And I think there were | :48:48. | :48:53. | |
some misjudgements made. I think the motivation for people | :48:54. | :48:55. | |
leaving, to leaving the EU, were various, but I do think | :48:56. | :48:57. | |
there was an aspect of people thinking, "Well, we're sort | :48:58. | :49:00. | |
of getting a bit fed up of politicians telling | :49:01. | :49:03. | |
us what's good for us, and we're going to make our mind up | :49:04. | :49:05. | |
and we think it's better for us to be out of the European Union." | :49:06. | :49:08. | |
So the question is what next, then? Should Parliament | :49:09. | :49:12. | |
have a say on this? I don't think we need to put it | :49:13. | :49:13. | |
through a parliamentary vote at all. I think... | :49:14. | :49:17. | |
Well, it's ridiculous! How are we taking back | :49:18. | :49:18. | |
sovereignty and control if our Parliament doesn't | :49:19. | :49:20. | |
have a say? Because the British people have | :49:21. | :49:22. | |
voted to leave the European Union, it is now up to us | :49:23. | :49:24. | |
to implement that... Yes, but we should | :49:25. | :49:29. | |
There will be parliamentary scrutiny, through various select | :49:30. | :49:33. | |
committees, and we will look at the... | :49:34. | :49:34. | |
I mean, I sit on the Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee. | :49:35. | :49:37. | |
We're about to launch an enquiry as to how Brexit will affect | :49:38. | :49:40. | |
that aspect and I suspect the other select committees | :49:41. | :49:42. | |
Well, we've had Andy Burnham come out and say there | :49:43. | :49:46. | |
should be a Northern voice in the negotiations. | :49:47. | :49:48. | |
Tim Farron's raised concerns about funding. | :49:49. | :49:51. | |
There is no clarity, is there, really? | :49:52. | :49:53. | |
There's been a mess in Parliament since June the 23rd, | :49:54. | :49:57. | |
because nothing was worked on and the people who campaigned | :49:58. | :49:59. | |
for Brexit didn't have a firm idea of the terms that they wanted, | :50:00. | :50:02. | |
so we are still arguing, "Are we going to have access | :50:03. | :50:05. | |
Are our finance companies going to be able to trade? | :50:06. | :50:08. | |
Can EU nationals stay here? Can UK nationals stay in the EU?" | :50:09. | :50:11. | |
But it's wrong, it's totally wrong on the basis on which people thought | :50:12. | :50:19. | |
it was to take back control if then our Parliament, | :50:20. | :50:21. | |
our sovereign Parliament, doesn't have a say. | :50:22. | :50:23. | |
But it was a pretty clear resounding... | :50:24. | :50:25. | |
It was clear that... People wanted to leave. | :50:26. | :50:26. | |
But not the terms. It's the terms of leaving. | :50:27. | :50:29. | |
So the leaving, everybody respects that, I respect that, | :50:30. | :50:33. | |
we all respect that as parliamentarians, | :50:34. | :50:34. | |
but it's the terms and the terms are very different. | :50:35. | :50:37. | |
Hard Brexit, Soft Brexit - they mean a lot of different things. | :50:38. | :50:40. | |
You know, inflation is affected, jobs are affected. | :50:41. | :50:42. | |
So then, should there be a vote on the deal that we get? | :50:43. | :50:45. | |
Yes, there should, I absolutely believe | :50:46. | :50:47. | |
And that is what we are our going for. | :50:48. | :50:50. | |
But would you potentially vote no on that if you're not happy with it? | :50:51. | :50:53. | |
Even though people in...? No, it's the terms of the exit. | :50:54. | :50:56. | |
Do you go for a Hard Brexit, where we are out | :50:57. | :51:00. | |
Or do you say that we must have access to the single market? | :51:01. | :51:04. | |
Andrew, should the government be publishing more about | :51:05. | :51:06. | |
what it wants to achieve? I mean, we can't... | :51:07. | :51:08. | |
As has already been said, we can't publish a running | :51:09. | :51:11. | |
commentary of how it's going to... Because you don't know. | :51:12. | :51:13. | |
That's not the case. I think it is. | :51:14. | :51:15. | |
Like anything in life, the negotiation like this, I mean... | :51:16. | :51:17. | |
I think the way we should do it, I mean, there were so many EU | :51:18. | :51:23. | |
directives that affect the country and I think we need to look at them | :51:24. | :51:26. | |
carefully and I'm not saying that every EU directive... | :51:27. | :51:28. | |
Should the priority be rejucing immigration | :51:29. | :51:33. | |
I think to say an individual priority now would be wrong. | :51:34. | :51:36. | |
I think we need to look at all the different issues, | :51:37. | :51:39. | |
the various, the many, many EU directives that we are subjected to. | :51:40. | :51:42. | |
But this is the wooliness we are getting in Parliament. | :51:43. | :51:44. | |
Barbara, I didn't interrupt you, if you let me get to the point. | :51:45. | :51:47. | |
We can look at the EU directives that we are influenced by. | :51:48. | :51:50. | |
I am not saying they are all bad, I am not saying they are all good, | :51:51. | :51:54. | |
we have already given some clarity along the lines of agricultural | :51:55. | :51:57. | |
sector, because they are concerned because of the money that comes | :51:58. | :51:59. | |
So we can eliminate some of the concerns now | :52:00. | :52:03. | |
but as the Prime Minister said, we need to look at this and think | :52:04. | :52:06. | |
about it before we invoke Article 50 in 2017. | :52:07. | :52:08. | |
Barbara, what needs to happen next to reassure people | :52:09. | :52:10. | |
That the government does have a plan? | :52:11. | :52:14. | |
People thought that we were taking back control, taking back | :52:15. | :52:16. | |
sovereignty, so Parliament is meant to be sovereign, | :52:17. | :52:20. | |
it should have a vote and to say that, "Let's look | :52:21. | :52:23. | |
at the directives," the great repeal bill that you've suggested will not | :52:24. | :52:25. | |
come into Parliament until after Article 50 | :52:26. | :52:27. | |
We need to know the terms on which we are leaving the EU | :52:28. | :52:31. | |
We have just appointed Keir Starmer, and Hilary Benn is going to be | :52:32. | :52:36. | |
I think they will fight for the position | :52:37. | :52:39. | |
I've just outlined. OK, thank you. | :52:40. | :52:40. | |
Well, George Osborne may have more time for Cheshire, | :52:41. | :52:45. | |
has decided the county's not for him. | :52:46. | :52:50. | |
Mr Woolfe recently moved his family from Chester to Hampshire | :52:51. | :52:53. | |
and has now quit the party as well after his spat | :52:54. | :52:56. | |
Mr Woolfe didn't want to speak to us, but Ukip's North West | :52:57. | :53:03. | |
President, Phil Griffiths, joins us now from Liverpool. | :53:04. | :53:05. | |
So, Mr Woolfe says your party is in a death spiral. | :53:06. | :53:11. | |
We have grown from strength to strength. | :53:12. | :53:16. | |
Yeah, in fact, every party has the turbulence that | :53:17. | :53:21. | |
we've experienced over the last couple of weeks or so. | :53:22. | :53:24. | |
The Labour Party is still going through it and there are | :53:25. | :53:27. | |
So I don't see that as a big problem. | :53:28. | :53:32. | |
We had a very unfortunate situation with Diane James standing down. | :53:33. | :53:36. | |
And then there was the incident in Starsbourg... | :53:37. | :53:38. | |
She didn't think the party was manageable, did she? | :53:39. | :53:41. | |
I don't recall what she said at all about that. | :53:42. | :53:45. | |
But we've got to put that behind us. That's in the past. | :53:46. | :53:48. | |
We've got to get on with the future | :53:49. | :53:50. | |
Well, your new leader quit after a number of days. | :53:51. | :53:58. | |
The person deemed to be favourite described the party | :53:59. | :54:00. | |
Is there any way back for Ukip from this? | :54:01. | :54:04. | |
There is. Steven didn't get his own way. | :54:05. | :54:07. | |
That is where I think he is feeling the bitterness from. | :54:08. | :54:09. | |
You know, that is up to him. And that this it. | :54:10. | :54:12. | |
We would have liked him to stay but he didn't. | :54:13. | :54:14. | |
So there is a new leadership campaign starting. | :54:15. | :54:16. | |
I am personally backing Paul Nuttall. | :54:17. | :54:18. | |
OK, thank you, Phil. That's my pleasure! | :54:19. | :54:22. | |
So, Barbara, Steven Woolfe has moved out of the region, 200 miles away. | :54:23. | :54:25. | |
He now says he is no longer representing the party | :54:26. | :54:27. | |
He is an MEP, proportional representation - should there be | :54:28. | :54:32. | |
a mechanism for replacing him, because he is no longer | :54:33. | :54:35. | |
Yeah, and I think that is unfortunate because there | :54:36. | :54:38. | |
We've been talking about the work in Parliament. | :54:39. | :54:42. | |
There is an awful lot of linking to what is happening | :54:43. | :54:44. | |
We don't want to see people fighting there, but working there, | :54:45. | :54:52. | |
and the North West is missing out if they don't have all our | :54:53. | :54:56. | |
representatives, but I know that the Labour MEPs are doing | :54:57. | :54:58. | |
And, Andrew, this altercation apparently happened | :54:59. | :55:01. | |
after he was flirting with your party, | :55:02. | :55:03. | |
Well, I was never particularly keen to have him in | :55:04. | :55:07. | |
And he's certainly not been flirting with me, | :55:08. | :55:10. | |
I've not met Mr Woolfe and I don't know his | :55:11. | :55:14. | |
intentions, but I do agree - to see politicians | :55:15. | :55:16. | |
of any party fighting doesn't bring our profession | :55:17. | :55:18. | |
I wish they wouldn't do it. OK. | :55:19. | :55:21. | |
West Lancashire and Wirral councils this week followed Liverpool's lead | :55:22. | :55:24. | |
in urging local newsagents to stop selling the Sun newspaper. | :55:25. | :55:28. | |
The country's biggest-selling daily has long been boycotted by many | :55:29. | :55:31. | |
in the area over its coverage of the Hillsborough disaster. | :55:32. | :55:33. | |
in the area over its coverage of the Hillsborough Disaster. | :55:34. | :55:36. | |
But should local authorities be getting involved? | :55:37. | :55:37. | |
A question for our reporter Mat Trewern. | :55:38. | :55:44. | |
Do I wish to God that I had never done that front page? | :55:45. | :55:48. | |
The newspaper's infamous headline and coverage continues to cause hurt | :55:49. | :56:05. | |
And this week, two more councils voted to encourage shops | :56:06. | :56:09. | |
I was at Hillsborough and I lost a very good friend. | :56:10. | :56:15. | |
This paper has never accepted the fact that they printed a lie | :56:16. | :56:20. | |
that had a massive impact impact throughout the 90s on the economy | :56:21. | :56:22. | |
of Merseyside and the people of Merseyside. | :56:23. | :56:24. | |
And that is the thing that you can never forgive. | :56:25. | :56:32. | |
And all I am asking retailers to do is look at themselves | :56:33. | :56:34. | |
and ask whether they should be selling the paper. | :56:35. | :56:37. | |
But some believe stopping the paper being sold is a step too far. | :56:38. | :56:40. | |
I have a great deal of sympathy towards the victims | :56:41. | :56:43. | |
and their families, but it is wider than that I think. | :56:44. | :56:47. | |
Where do you draw the line once you start? | :56:48. | :56:51. | |
How many of the staff are still on the Sun? | :56:52. | :56:57. | |
And I believe in individual has a right to decide | :56:58. | :56:59. | |
The owners of the Sun tell us they hope, in time, | :57:00. | :57:04. | |
their grave error can be forgiven, but also say it is a shame that some | :57:05. | :57:07. | |
people are trying to decide what others can choose | :57:08. | :57:10. | |
And the council's strong stance is an issue which divides opinion. | :57:11. | :57:16. | |
I think the public have spoken - nobody wants the Sun. | :57:17. | :57:19. | |
The treatment that the Sun gave the area at the time of Hillsborough | :57:20. | :57:22. | |
I would make the choice of not having it, but if somebody wants it, | :57:23. | :57:32. | |
Yes, and I think the less state intervention, the better. | :57:33. | :57:37. | |
Campaigners against the Sun say they would like the paper | :57:38. | :57:39. | |
to completely disappear off of the shelves | :57:40. | :57:41. | |
Mat Trewern reporting. Andrew, are the council is going to far? The | :57:42. | :57:56. | |
council is talking about the Sun on sale in Liverpool, one of the most | :57:57. | :58:00. | |
powerful moments when I was in Parliament was the debate on | :58:01. | :58:02. | |
Hillsborough, and I read is the point of order, about Kelvin | :58:03. | :58:08. | |
MacKenzie, whether he can be got back in front of the Select | :58:09. | :58:12. | |
Committee many years later over it. But should council should | :58:13. | :58:16. | |
encourage... To answer that, councils have quite a lot on their | :58:17. | :58:20. | |
plate and quite frankly I am not sure they should be doing this | :58:21. | :58:24. | |
because if the Sun is not selling in Liverpool, give people the choice, | :58:25. | :58:29. | |
if it doesn't sell, it doesn't, and I know it doesn't sell in Liverpool. | :58:30. | :58:33. | |
But also West Lancashire and people are not trying to ban it, just want | :58:34. | :58:38. | |
to encourage newsagents to think about what the Sun did. Absolutely. | :58:39. | :58:44. | |
And if you take the world, the 96 victims of Hillsborough, 12 of them | :58:45. | :58:48. | |
I understand were from the Wirral and Ellesmere Port. People in the | :58:49. | :58:55. | |
middle of that grief, the misery of bereavement, in a terrible incident, | :58:56. | :58:58. | |
a newspaper that published untruths. Now it has admitted! But people | :58:59. | :59:04. | |
don't get over that, it made their grief worse and people still | :59:05. | :59:09. | |
remember it. So I think that is the council rightly showing solidarity | :59:10. | :59:13. | |
with people, families of those victims. I fully understand it and I | :59:14. | :59:17. | |
think they are doing the right thing. OK! | :59:18. | :59:20. | |
What else has been happening this week? | :59:21. | :59:22. | |
Here's Steve Saul to tell us in 60 Seconds. | :59:23. | :59:25. | |
Wigan MP Lisa Nandy led Labour's attack on Theresa May's handling | :59:26. | :59:28. | |
of the child abuse inquiry during the Prime Minister's | :59:29. | :59:30. | |
She set up the enquiry, she appointed the chairperson, she was | :59:31. | :59:42. | |
the Home Secretary in April and was the only person who had the power to | :59:43. | :59:43. | |
act. Oldham was designated | :59:44. | :59:45. | |
an "opportunity area" after the Education Secretary | :59:46. | :59:47. | |
paid a visit to promise But children not paying a visit | :59:48. | :59:49. | |
to school have been racking up Councils in the North West fined | :59:50. | :59:53. | |
parents ?1.3 million Cheshire councillor Matthew Bryan - | :59:54. | :00:00. | |
on the left - went on trial accused of obstructing an officer | :00:01. | :00:05. | |
as police tried to clear He and seven others | :00:06. | :00:08. | |
deny all charges. And the former Lib Dem MP John Leech | :00:09. | :00:11. | |
won praise for his part in a successful campaign to pardon | :00:12. | :00:19. | |
posthumously thousands convicted of homosexuality, among them | :00:20. | :00:21. | |
the codebreaker Alan Turing. John Leech taking | :00:22. | :00:29. | |
the plaudits there. What's your biggest recent | :00:30. | :00:30. | |
achievement? I think I presented 100 petitions on | :00:31. | :00:42. | |
behalf of women born in the 1950s who have not got their state pension | :00:43. | :00:46. | |
when they expected. A lot of them said they were moved in seeing so | :00:47. | :00:51. | |
much support, so that was a good moment last week. I campaign long | :00:52. | :00:57. | |
and hard for a bypass to relieve traffic in Glossop. We had an | :00:58. | :01:01. | |
awareness event last week and it was the first opportunity for people to | :01:02. | :01:05. | |
see the plans to have this delivered in the not too distant future. Good | :01:06. | :01:09. | |
to see many constituents look at the initial drawing. Well done to both | :01:10. | :01:10. | |
of you. Thanks to Barbara Keeley | :01:11. | :01:11. | |
and Andrew Bingham - go ahead with this policy, I know. | :01:12. | :01:14. | |
And now back to Andrew. So, Brexit, airports, | :01:15. | :01:26. | |
Calais and the chances With what Rory Stewart was saying | :01:27. | :01:48. | |
there, it is clear that Islamic State is losing territory in Iraq | :01:49. | :01:52. | |
now, and could come under pressure in Syria as well. It used to control | :01:53. | :01:59. | |
a whole swathe of the coast of Libya, and is now down to a small | :02:00. | :02:08. | |
area of Sirte in Libya. But curiously, it could make them more | :02:09. | :02:10. | |
dangerous here if they are being driven out of the Maghreb and the | :02:11. | :02:15. | |
Levant, they could be more dangerous here. Discuss. That was a very | :02:16. | :02:20. | |
interesting admission from a government minister, of all people, | :02:21. | :02:25. | |
and a well-informed one. Chasing Isis around the Middle East is | :02:26. | :02:33. | |
about... Like chasing Al-Qaeda around Afghanistan and Pakistan. You | :02:34. | :02:36. | |
smash them somewhere, and they pop up somewhere else. He is right to | :02:37. | :02:45. | |
warn that these guys will go somewhere. And it may well be, in | :02:46. | :02:57. | |
Sirte, for example, across the magic oration -- across the Mediterranean | :02:58. | :03:02. | |
into Italy. A lot of the foreign fighters in Mosul have already gone, | :03:03. | :03:05. | |
we heard, which raises the question, to where? I think it is quite right | :03:06. | :03:14. | |
for government ministers to warn that it might have repercussions | :03:15. | :03:18. | |
here. We have been involved in this, with full public consent, as far as | :03:19. | :03:23. | |
we can tell. If it doesn't happen, if there are horrors and outrages | :03:24. | :03:27. | |
here and in the rest of Europe, that's fine. If it does happen, at | :03:28. | :03:34. | |
least the government is prepared. We knew surprised about how categorical | :03:35. | :03:42. | |
Nia Griffith was? She was categorical about support for the | :03:43. | :03:48. | |
Allied action in Iraq, and categorical about Russia. So much so | :03:49. | :03:55. | |
that perhaps written should take tougher sanctions on its own, even | :03:56. | :04:00. | |
if it can't get the Europeans to fall in line. I found that | :04:01. | :04:05. | |
interesting. I was surprised by that. Tom may be right that Rory | :04:06. | :04:10. | |
said more than perhaps he was intending, but I thought that some | :04:11. | :04:15. | |
of what she said sounded politically imprudent in the current context of | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
the Labour Party. I'm not sure she cleared those lines with the Labour | :04:20. | :04:24. | |
office. I'm not sure she and Jeremy are in the same place about it. I'm | :04:25. | :04:29. | |
not sure there is that much leadership. People at the moment get | :04:30. | :04:32. | |
out there and say what they think it's right for the party. She | :04:33. | :04:37. | |
sounded dead right to me. Whether it is ill-advised or not, people should | :04:38. | :04:43. | |
answer... I want to move on, because Brexit never goes away. This week we | :04:44. | :04:49. | |
saw Hilary Benn, former Shadow Foreign Secretary. He is going to be | :04:50. | :04:53. | |
the chair of the select committee in the Commons which will monitor the | :04:54. | :04:57. | |
Department for Brexit. All sorts of people will be coming to give | :04:58. | :05:01. | |
testimony and so one. Let's hear what he told Andrew Marr. | :05:02. | :05:04. | |
I think it will be very important for the government to indicate that | :05:05. | :05:07. | |
if it is not possible within the two years provided for by Article 50 | :05:08. | :05:10. | |
to negotiate both our withdrawal agreement and a new trading | :05:11. | :05:13. | |
relationship, market access, including for services, | :05:14. | :05:14. | |
80% of our economy, million jobs, in financial services, | :05:15. | :05:16. | |
that it should tell the House of Commons that it will seek | :05:17. | :05:19. | |
a transitional arrangement with the European Union. | :05:20. | :05:25. | |
If the deal is not done at the end of the two-year Article 50 process, | :05:26. | :05:34. | |
would the government go for an interim agreement, or would it fall | :05:35. | :05:40. | |
back on WTO, World Trade Organisation, Rawls? My | :05:41. | :05:44. | |
understanding is the article 15 negotiation doesn't specifically | :05:45. | :05:47. | |
include what Britain's future trading relationship with the EU | :05:48. | :05:52. | |
would be. It is perfectly possible that Article 50 could be triggered, | :05:53. | :05:57. | |
and after two years we don't have a trade deal, but the trade deal | :05:58. | :06:02. | |
negotiations are ongoing when we are outside the EU. But the trade deal | :06:03. | :06:13. | |
negotiations are the most important thing. If Article 50 doesn't cover | :06:14. | :06:16. | |
it, what is it about? Absolutely essential. The trade deal with | :06:17. | :06:18. | |
Canada has taken nine years, and now it looks like it is fading, because | :06:19. | :06:26. | |
of the Walloons. Just one small part of the country. If you cannot do a | :06:27. | :06:35. | |
free-trade deal with Canada, a progressive, social Democratic | :06:36. | :06:38. | |
Canada, who can the EU do a trade deal with? You would think it would | :06:39. | :06:43. | |
be easy with us, because we have all of the level playing field | :06:44. | :06:47. | |
agreements in place. You would hope it would be easier, but it may not | :06:48. | :06:52. | |
be, because in the end, it will hinge on the single market and if we | :06:53. | :06:57. | |
are in or out. If we are in, can we have a small break on immigration? | :06:58. | :07:06. | |
It looks like not. What is interesting about the opinion polls | :07:07. | :07:08. | |
is, in the last two opinion polls there was a significant change in | :07:09. | :07:13. | |
public opinion, where people are now saying they think that actually | :07:14. | :07:17. | |
trade, the economy, the single market is more important than | :07:18. | :07:22. | |
immigration. If it is really true, as the observer is reporting today, | :07:23. | :07:27. | |
that banks are on the move, and in a year's time there could be a | :07:28. | :07:31. | |
significant collapse in the income we get from finance, the income that | :07:32. | :07:35. | |
the Treasury gets, then public opinion might change. They may say, | :07:36. | :07:46. | |
we don't want more immigration, but this isn't a price worth paying. | :07:47. | :07:49. | |
Everything tends to be seen through the Brexit lens at the moment. | :07:50. | :07:57. | |
Things are not always as they seem. The Canadian- EU free trade | :07:58. | :08:00. | |
agreement was about increasing free trade between the EU and Canada, and | :08:01. | :08:05. | |
therefore subject to the ratification of all members. Any | :08:06. | :08:09. | |
deal we do will not give us the same access we have at the moment. The | :08:10. | :08:15. | |
question is, how much will it be diminished? It may not be subject to | :08:16. | :08:21. | |
the same ratification process. Absolutely right. Another | :08:22. | :08:24. | |
unbelievably technical point that we still don't know is, if we can get | :08:25. | :08:30. | |
this free-trade deal with the EU at the same time as our Brexit talks | :08:31. | :08:35. | |
and deal, the divorce deal as well as the remarriage deal, then one | :08:36. | :08:43. | |
gets signed off by QM V. The trade deal may still need all 28, all 27, | :08:44. | :08:52. | |
including the people from the Walloons. And the MEPs. The majority | :08:53. | :08:58. | |
of parliament. This is exactly why Theresa May would like the | :08:59. | :09:02. | |
transitional deal to push this one deeper. I was surprised to hear | :09:03. | :09:06. | |
Hilary Benn pushing this line this morning. The remainers have been all | :09:07. | :09:11. | |
over the place. They wanted a vote after Article 50 had been triggered | :09:12. | :09:15. | |
about the deal. Then they wanted a vote before Article 50. Now they are | :09:16. | :09:24. | |
talking about a vote before article Article 50 is triggered about a | :09:25. | :09:28. | |
trade deal. They need to make up their minds about what it is they | :09:29. | :09:32. | |
are pushing for, and what their best hope of obstructing Brexit is, and | :09:33. | :09:38. | |
stick with it. Something else we see through the Brexit lens, which isn't | :09:39. | :09:43. | |
always helpful, is Calais. The French bulldozers will move in | :09:44. | :09:47. | |
tomorrow. We will see some pretty disturbing scenes on the TV. We will | :09:48. | :09:52. | |
see some horrible scenes. The government has handled this very | :09:53. | :09:56. | |
badly. Having passed an amendment in April saying we would take something | :09:57. | :10:02. | |
like 3000 children, a lot of those children have disappeared. Save the | :10:03. | :10:05. | |
Children, one of the charities there, are very worried that people | :10:06. | :10:09. | |
traffickers have been in there, and a lot of those children have | :10:10. | :10:17. | |
vanished. We haven't sent social workers in. No preparations have | :10:18. | :10:22. | |
been made what ever. You are raising an interesting point. We don't know | :10:23. | :10:28. | |
how many we are meant to be taking. The huge argument has arisen over | :10:29. | :10:32. | |
what the age is of some of the ones coming in. Is this another problem | :10:33. | :10:39. | |
for the Home Office? To some extent. Didn't Theresa May 's too well to | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
survive six weeks of this? Amber Rudd has been there for three | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
months. It is clear that the Home Office didn't prepare for this. They | :10:50. | :10:52. | |
didn't prepare for the age verification or when it will go. It | :10:53. | :11:00. | |
needs to be an perfect. We don't know how many we will take, because | :11:01. | :11:06. | |
the Home Office will not say. I want to talk about airport capacity, but | :11:07. | :11:10. | |
I won't, because I don't think we have anything to say about it until | :11:11. | :11:16. | |
the statement on Tuesday from Transport Minister Grayling. When | :11:17. | :11:20. | |
you look at the polls and see the decision on airport runway expansion | :11:21. | :11:24. | |
being kicked into the long grass for a year, are we heading for an early | :11:25. | :11:28. | |
election next year or not? I think Theresa May will do everything she | :11:29. | :11:33. | |
can to avoid it. If there is an election before 2020, it is bound to | :11:34. | :11:41. | |
be about Europe, and that is a much harder case for her to win than just | :11:42. | :11:44. | |
a question of who is the best Prime Minister. She will have a tough | :11:45. | :11:48. | |
time, because it will be a general election about in or out of the | :11:49. | :11:53. | |
single market. Half of her party will peel away. How do she conduct a | :11:54. | :11:59. | |
general election when the likes of Anna Soubry will not stand on the | :12:00. | :12:04. | |
same platform? It will be difficult. But she may reach such a stalemate | :12:05. | :12:13. | |
that she just calls one. No general election next year because it will | :12:14. | :12:16. | |
split the Tory party. There will be won in 2019 when she cannot get | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
Brexit through the House of Commons. You really can have too much of a | :12:21. | :12:24. | |
good thing. I just want to show a little clip of the former Shadow | :12:25. | :12:29. | |
Chancellor, Ed Balls, from Strictly last night. Let's just watch this. | :12:30. | :12:33. | |
There he is. Where is the hand? That is the | :12:34. | :12:45. | |
worrying bit! We will no longer be saying that Ed Balls is a safe pair | :12:46. | :12:53. | |
of hands! Can we agree on that? Remarkable that he was once the man | :12:54. | :12:58. | |
most feared by David Cameron! Labour leader 2021. He has hit popular | :12:59. | :13:06. | |
culture in the way that many few politicians do. Charm, gusto, | :13:07. | :13:12. | |
bravery, no worries about being embarrassed. All the things that you | :13:13. | :13:19. | |
don't like about being a politician. We have run out of time. You can get | :13:20. | :13:21. | |
it on social media. Jo Coburn will be back | :13:22. | :13:24. | |
with the Daily Politics tomorrow And I'll be back here next | :13:25. | :13:26. | |
Sunday at the same time. Remember if it's Sunday, | :13:27. | :13:30. | |
it's the Sunday Politics. Everyone's living these | :13:31. | :14:04. | |
amazing lives, You're like a... | :14:05. | :14:06. | |
Different person? Delve deeper. | :14:07. | :14:17. | |
Ordinary Lives continues... They have something on me | :14:18. | :14:26. | |
that I can actually remember. They have something on me | :14:27. | :14:27. | |
that I can actually remember. The final chapter between | :14:28. | :14:32. | |
Gibson and Spector. | :14:33. | :14:36. |