30/10/2016 Sunday Politics North West

Morning folks. Welcome to the Sunday Politics.

Theresa May says she wants to help people who are

"just about managing" - so should she reverse

George Osborne's cuts to benefits that are supposed to help people

Prominent London Imam Shakeel Begg is an extremist speaker,

says the High Court, after claims made on this programme.

So why is Mr Begg still being allowed to advise the Police?

Hillary Clinton fights back over the FBI's renewed investigation

into her use of a private email server - is this the boost

Donald Trump needed to reignite his chances of winning the White House?

Building on the green belt, plus:

A game of two halves - City's future looks bright,

but are United in the dark `ges on women's football?

Now it is just a question of building that runway with the

political problems that lie ahead. And haunting the studio

on this Halloween weekend, the most terrifying political

panel in the business - Tim 'Ghost' Shipman,

'Eerie' Isabel Oakeshott and First this morning, two

new models of car to be built, securing 7,000 jobs at the car plant

in Sunderland and a further 28, 00 The news from Nissan on Thursday

was seized on by Leave campaigners as evidence that the British

economy is in rude health This morning, the Business

Secretary, Greg Clark, was asked what assurances were given

to the Japanese firm's bosses Well, it's in no-one's the interest

for there to be tariff barriers to the continent

and vice versa. So, what I said is that our

objective would be to ensure that we have continued access to the markets

in Europe and vice versa, without tariffs and without

bureaucratic impediments. That is how we will approach

those negotiations. We're joined now from Newcastle

by the Shadow Business Welcome to the programme. Labour has

been a bit sceptical about this Nissan decision. Can we begin by

making it clear just what a great achievement this is, above all for

the workers of Sunderland who have some of the highest productivity in

the world, have never been on strike for 30 years, and produce cars of

incredible quality. This is their victory, isn't it? Andrew, you are

absolutely right. The Nissan plant in Sunderland is among the most

productive in the world. The workers of Nissan are amongst the most

productive as well. And it's really a victory for them and for the trade

unions and the business organisations, and everybody who

campaigned to make sure that the government couldn't ignore their

future. It's our future. I'm the MP for Newcastle. It makes a huge

difference to the region. We are a region that still likes to make

things that work. It is a huge part of our advanced manufacturing

sector. So it's really something we welcome as well as the job security.

I'm glad we have got that on the record from the Labour shadow

business secretary. But your Shadow Chancellor, John McDonnell, claims

the government is ignoring manufacturers and cares only about a

small banking elite. In what way is safeguarding 30,000 industrial jobs

in the North safeguarding a financial elite? As I said, we're

really pleased that the campaigning by trade unions and the workforce,

and business organisations, meant the government felt they couldn t

ignore Nissan workers. Let's also be clear that we want that kind of job

security for all of those working in manufacturing and in other sectors

as well. And sweetheart deals for one company, no matter how important

they are, that does not an industrial strategy make. Why'd you

say it is a sweetheart deal? Greg Clark told the BBC this morning that

what was assured to Nissan is an assurance he gives to the whole

industrial sector? I was really pleased to see Greg Clark felt he

had to say something, even though it's sad that we having our

industrial strategy, you like, or our approach to Brexit delivered

piecemeal to the media rather than to the British people and Nissan,

actually. But he want published the letter. He said he has told us what

is in the letter and that reassurances given on training, on

science and on supporting the supply chain for the automated sector. You

must be in favour all -- of all of that? We are in favour of an

industrial strategy. Greg Clark unlike Sajid Javid, cannot say

industrial strategy. I'm still puzzling to find out what it is you

disagree with. Let me put the question. You said the assurances he

has given to Nissan are available to the car manufacturing sector in

general and indeed to industry in general. What is your problem with

that? Two things. Let him publish the letter so we can see that, let

him have the transparency he's pretending to offer. But also, we

need an industrial strategy that values -- that is values based and

joined. He talked about electric cars and supporting green cars. That

was in regard to Nissan. At the same time the government has slashed

support for other areas of green technology. So what is it? That is

not to do with the Nissan deal. Labour implied at some stage there

was some financial inducement, some secret bribes, that doesn't seem to

be the case. You are not claiming that any more -- any more. Then you

claimed it was a sweetheart deal for one company. That turns out not to

be the case. What criticism are you left with on this Nissan deal? I

would be really surprised if all that Nissan got was the reassurances

that Greg Clark is shared with us. He didn't answer the question of

what happens if we can't get continued tariff free access to the

single market, if we are not within the single market or the Customs

Union. Do you really think a negotiator like Nissan, who are very

good at negotiating, they would have excepted making this significant

investment without some further reassurances? Do you think there is

some kind of financial bride and if so what is the evidence? I would

like to see the letter published and I would also like to understand what

would happen... There are 27 countries which need to agree with

the deal we have from Brexit. What will Nissan, how will Nissan remain

competitive? How will the automotive industry remain competitive? Greg

Clark says he reassured them on that. But how will that be so if we

do not get access? We haven't heard anything about that. He talks about

reassurances given to Nissan. We need to make -- to know where we're

going to make sure Brexit is in the interest of all workers, not only

those who work for a Nissan and not only those who can get the attention

of Greg Clark. He assured Nissan that Britain would remain a

competitive place to do business. That was the main assurance he gave

them. He would help with skills and infrastructure and all the rest

Since you are -- intend to repeal the trade union laws that have made

strikes in Britain largely a thing of the past, and you plan to raise

corporation tax, you couldn't give Nissan the same assurance, could

you? We could absolutely give Nissan the assurance that we will be, our

vision of the future of the UK, is based on having a strong

manufacturing sector. Repealing trade union laws? As we have seen at

Nissan, the industrial sector is dependent on having highly trained,

well skilled workers. -- highly skilled, well-trained. You don't

have that by getting -- having an aggressive policy and trade union

laws or by slashing corporation tax and not supporting manufacturing

investment. Remember, the last government took away the

Manufacturing allowances which supported Manufacturing and slashed

corporation tax. That is their solution. It is a low tax, low skill

economy they want. Thank you. Sorry I had to rush you.

I'm grateful for you joining us I'm still struggling to see what is

left of Labour's criticism? Yeah, except for this. This was a valid

point she just made. What we know for sure is that Greg Clark could

say to Nissan, my aim is to get tariff free deal. There is no way he

could guarantee that. None of us know that. I don't think that was

enough. I think clearly there was a more detailed package involving

training and other things. He has acknowledged this, albeit we do not

know the precise mechanism. What I think is interesting about this is

if you reverse what happened this week, at a time when the government

says Britain is open for business and it is going to have an

industrial strategy, so far it is a bit vaguely defined. Nissan hadn't

made this commitment. Imagine what would have happened? It is an

impossible scenario. The government seems to me was obliged to make sure

this didn't happen. Let's not forget Nissan has invested hundreds of

millions in the north-east. It has been a huge success story. When I

spoke to workers from Nissan, they were so proud because they went to

Japan to teach the Japanese had to be more productive. The idea that

Nissan was just going to walk away from this given its track record,

its importance, wasn't really credible. The government had some

bargaining chips. Absolutely, of course they weren't going to walk

away. The majority of people in the area in which Nissan is braced -

based, voted for Brexit. Nissan knows it is in a powerful position

because it is an emotive sector Clearly the government didn't want

to have some big showdown. I honestly don't think this is a

smoking gun. The Labour Shadow minister really struggled to

articulate what exactly she thinks the government is hiding. I think

the reassurances were given were pretty anodyne, really. They were

anodyne and general. And what Greg Clark was setting out was an

objective and he made the right noises, and Nissan exercised its

right to sabre rattle. It does have a history of doing that. The one

thing that would now be clear given Greg Clark's performance this

morning on the BBC, is that if we were to discover some kind of

financial incentive directly linked to this investment, not more for

skills or infrastructure, that is fine, but some direct financial

investment, compensation for tariffs, which would be illegal

under World Trade Organisation rules, what you might call a

financial bride, the sect -- the business Secretary's position would

be untenable? He would be in a very difficult position indeed. Just

released the letter. There is nothing to hide. Put it out there.

The most revealing thing is that people are getting wildly excited

about the fact Greg Clark announced Britain's negotiating position would

be that we would like tariff free trade with Europe. This is regarded

as an insight into what this comment is doing and it says a great deal

about how little we have been told in Parliament and the media about

what they are up. Do you think it is exciting we are going for tariff

free trade? We're easily excited these days. We don't know. This is

where these things are at such a tentative phase. We don't know how

the rest of the European Union is going to respond to Britain's

negotiating hand. We know Britain once the best of everything, please.

It is a starting point. But that is not how it is going to end up. We

are getting wider than that. We have will have to see.

Now, Universal Credit, a single payment made to welfare

claimants that would roll together a plethora of benefits whilst

encouraging people into work by making work pay.

But have cuts to the flagship welfare scheme reduced work

incentives and hit the incomes of the least well-off?

Well, some of the government's own MPs think so, and,

as Mark Lobel reports, want the cuts reversed.

Theresa May says she wants a country that works

for everyone, that's on the side of ordinary, working people.

It means never writing off people who can work and consigning them

to a life on benefits, but giving them the chance to go out

and earn a living and to enjoy the dignity that comes

But now some in her party are worried that the low earners

will be hit by changes to Universal Credit benefit system

originally set up to encourage more people into work.

We also need to focus tax credits and Universal Credit

Concern centred on the Government's decision in the July 2015 budget

to find ?3 billion worth of savings from the Universal Credit bill.

Conservative MP Heidi Allen is working on a campaign to get MPs

in her party to urge the Prime Minister to think again.

I want her to understand for herself what the outcomes might

be if we press ahead with the Universal Credit,

Do you think Theresa May, right now, understands what you understand

To be fair, unless you really get into the detail,

and I have through my work on the Work and Pensions

Select Committee, I don't think anybody does.

Independent economic analysts at the IFS agree with Heidi Alan

that cuts to Universal Credit weaken incentives to work.

One of the key parts of the Universal Credit system

That is how much you can earn before your credit

As the Government has sought to save money,

both under the Coalition and now they Conservative Government,

both under the Coalition and now the Conservative Government,

that work allowance has been cut, time and time again.

The biggest cuts happened in the summer budget of 2015.

That basically reduces the amount of earnings you get to keep

It weakens the incentive people have to move into work.

What do changes to the Universal Credit system mean?

The Resolution Foundation think tank has crunched the numbers.

If you compare what would have happened before the July 2015 summer

budget to what will happen by 2 20, even if you take into account gains

in the National Living Wage and income tax cuts,

recipients will be hit by annual deductions.

Couples and parents would receive, on average, ?1000 less.

A dual-earning couple with two children under four,

with one partner working full-time on ?10.50 an hour and the other

working part-time on the minimum wage for around 20

hours a week, they would receive ?1800 less.

Hit most by the changes would be a single parent

with a child under four, working full-time

I think, if I'm honest, it is unrealistic, given

the economic climate, to expect everything to be reversed.

What I would like to see is an increase in the work

allowances to those people who will be hardest hit.

That is single parents and second earners hoping to return to work,

because they are the people we need to absolutely make

The Sunday Politics understands that about 15 to 20 Conservative MPs

are pushing for changes ahead of the Autumn Statement.

A former cabinet minister told us that they believed further impact

analysis should be done to find out if any mitigation measures

Former Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith, an architect

of the system, now says the cuts should be reversed.

But his former department has told us that it has no plans to revisit

the work allowance changes announced in the budget last year.

What I would say to Heidi Allen and IDS, they got it right the first

time and they should stick to the vote they cast last year

because these reforms actually do make sense.

What interests me is the fact we are trying to move people

off welfare into work, we are raising the wages people

earn by massively increasing the minimum wage and this

People are coming off welfare and into work.

Campaigners are pushing for savings to come from other areas to relieve

The other thing we have to start looking at is the triple

Financially it has been a great policy, and it was absolutely right

that we lifted pensioners who were significantly behind,

for many years, in terms of income levels, but they have

I think it is time for us to look at that policy again,

because is costing us an awful lot of money.

With just over three weeks to wait until the Conservative leadership's

new economic plan is unveiled in the Autumn Statement,

its top team is under pressure from within its own ranks to use it

And I'm joined now by former Work and Pensions Secretary,

Welcome back to the programme. Theresa May said she is on the side

of the just managing, the working poor. But they are about to be hit

from all sides. Their modest living standards are going to be squeezed

as inflation overtakes pay rises, they will be further squeezed

because top-up benefits in work are frozen. Incentives to work are going

to be reduced by the cuts in universal benefits. So much for

being on the side of those just managing? Theresa was right to focus

on this group. The definition has to be the bottom half, in economic

terms, of the social structure. It doesn't look good for them? This is

the point I am making, it is an opportunity to put some of this

right. One of the reasons I resigned in March is because I felt the

direction of travel we had been going in had been to take far too

much money out of that group of people when there are other areas

which, if you need to make some of those savings, you can. The key bit

is that the group needs to be helped through into work and encouraged to

stay in work. There was a report done with the IFS, when we were

there, at Universal Credit. It said Universal Credit rolled out, as it

should have been before the cuts, people would be much more likely to

stay in work longer and earn more money. It is a net positive, but

that is now called into question. Let's unpick some of the detail but

first, do you accept the words of David Willets? It says on the basis

of the things I read out to you that the just managing face a significant

and painful cut in real terms if we continue on the way we are going. I

do, in essence. That is the reason why I resigned. I felt Heidi raised

that issue as well, that we got the balance wrong. It is right that

pensioners get to a certain point, when they are on a level par, doing

the right thing over five years Staying with that process has cost

us ?18 billion extra this year, in total. It will go on costing another

5 billion. Then there is the issue of tax allowances. I want to remind

you and viewers what David Cameron told the Conservative conference in

2009. If you are a single mother with two children, earning ?150 a

week, the withdrawal of your benefits and the additional taxes

that you pay me on that for every extra you earn, you keep just 4p.

What kind of incentive is that? 30 years ago, this party won and

election fighting against 98% tax rates for the Rex richest. I want us

today to show even more anger about 96% tax rates for the very poorest

in our country. Real anger, and effective rate of over 90%.

Universal Credit reduces that. Some will still face, as they lose

benefits and pay tax, a marginal rate of over 75%. That is still too

high? Yes, it is the collision between those going into work at the

moment they start paying tax. A racial Universal Credit is set at

65%. You can call that the base marginal tax rate. 1.2 million will

face 75%? That is the point about why the allowances are so important.

The point about the allowances which viewers might not fully understand

is that it was set, as part of Universal Credit, to allow you to

get certain people, with certain difficulties, as they cross into

work, to retain more benefit before it is tapered away as they go up in

hours. A lone parent, who might have various issues, you want her to have

a bigger incentive than a single person that does not have the same

commitments. It is structured so that somebody who has difficulty

going to work, they all have slightly different rates. What

happened is that last year a decision was taken to reduce tax

credits, and, on the back of that, to reduce allowances. I believe

given everything that happened now, we need to restore that to the point

where it helps those people crossing over. You say a decision was taken,

it was a decision by the former Chancellor George Osborne in the

summer budget. Other decisions were taken in successive Budgets to raise

the Universal Credit budget, which resulted in the disincentive being

higher than many people wanted. Do you accept that has been the

consequence of his decisions? I was in the Government, we take

collective responsibility. I argued this was not the right way to go,

but when you are in you have to stay with it if you lose that argument.

There was another attempt before the spending review last year to

increase the taper, so the marginal rate would have gone up. I managed

to stop that. I'm Sibley saying what we made as a decision last

year, given the circumstances and given that the net effect of all of

that, I think it is time for the Government to ask the question, if

we are in this to help that group of people, Universal Credit is

singularly the most powerful tool. One of the Argentine aid in the

paper published on Thursday, we are set going on doing two more races of

the tax threshold, taking more people out of tax. That has a

diminishing effect on the bottom section. Only 25p in that tax rate

will help any of those. Most of it goes to middle income? You and I

will benefit more from that. With Universal Credit, every pound you

put into that will go to the bottom five tenths. That is why I designed

it like that. He pressed the button and immediately start to changed

circumstances. Should the cuts in Universal Credit that Mr Osborne

introduced, against your argument, should they be reversed? I believe

so. I believe you can do it even if there is concern about spending I

don't believe you need to go through with the continuing raise the tax

threshold. Cost is dependent on inflation, but give or take. It is

in the Tory manifesto? Has more than doubled. What is in the manifesto,

and Lasse Prime Minister made this clear in conference, we want to

improve the life chances of people. Today's announcement on the Green

paper is what I wrote over the last two and a half years. Big changes

necessary to how we deal with sickness benefit. That can now be

done because of Universal Credit, because people can go back to work

and it tapers away their benefits. It is the most powerful tool to sort

our people that live in poverty Universal Credit. We need to make

sure it lands positively. If Mr Osborne's cuts were reversed, what

you and some of your backbench Tory colleagues want to do, how would

that improve the incentives of the working poor, as they try to get on

in life? They have to pay more tax, they lose some benefits. How would

it improve it? Would many still face a 75% rate? The key question is

first and foremost, as people move through income to the point where

they are getting taxed, that group will be enormously benefited by the

re-emergence of these allowances at the right level. That is what the

IFS have said, that is what the Resolution Foundation are saying,

and the Centre For Social Justice is saying. You have to get that group,

because they are most likely to be drifting into poverty and less

incomes are right. Would it help those who face a 75% margin? We

don't face that. Exactly right. People much poorer than us do. I

would love to get the marginal rate down to testify percent, and lower,.

-- down to 65%. It is a balance of how you spend the money. I would

prefer to do that rather than necessarily go ahead with threshold

razors. I think the coronation of the marginal reduction of 65%,

getting it down to 60%, plus more allowances, will allow Universal

Credit to get to the group that is going to be, and the report written

by the IFS and ourselves, it shows it is going to be the most dynamic

and direct ability of a Government to be able to influence the way that

people improve their incomes in the bottom five deciles. Would you take

on extra work if you knew you were going to lose 75% of it? Even 6 %?

This has been my argument all along. Universal Credit can help that

enormously. One point that goes missing, 70% of the bottom five

deciles will be on Universal Credit. Whatever change you make to

Universal Credit has a dramatic and immediate effect I am arguing,

genuinely, it is time to rethink this. The Prime Minister wants to

make this a priority. I am completely with her on this. I think

she made a really good start. To deliver this, we need to... You have

a lot of work to do to deliver it. Because it is a manifesto

commitment, or because they want to do it, stopping increasing the

personal allowances are not acceptable, what about bringing to

an end, by the end of the parliament, the pension triple lock

that pensioners enjoy to improve and put more money to the working poor?

What about that? Well, you are absolutely right that there is now

the danger, I think, of a mess balance between the generations

Quite rightly at the beginning, when we came in, we have a commitment as

a Conservative Party in a manifesto to get pensions back onto earnings.

It was moved to a triple lock that guaranteed a minimum. What about

ending up now? I understand it is a promise through the Parliament, but

after 2020? I am in favour of getting it back to innings and

allowing it to rise at reasonable levels. Moving from earnings to the

triple lock has cost ?18 billion this year. Here was a high, under

pressure, as the Government was scratching around to pay more money

out of working age areas, when the budget was almost out of control on

the pension side. I'm in favour of helping pensioners, but now they are

up to a reasonable level, at a steady rate, that can be afforded by

Government, which takes the pressure off, working age people have to pay

for that. In years to come, time to end the triple lock

and use the savings to help these people we have been talking about?

As part of a load of packages, yes. It would also help with the

intergenerational fairness argument. Thank you for being with us.

Now, a prominent London Imam called Shakeel Begg -

who is Chief Imam the Lewisham Islamic Centre - is an extremist.

That was the verdict of the judge in a libel action that Mr Begg took

against the BBC, after we described him as an Islamic extremist

Mr Begg had complained about a short segment in an interview in November

2013 with Farooq Murad, the then head of the Muslim Council

of Britain, an organisation which claims to represent British

In that interview, we described Mr Begg as an extremist speaker

who had hailed jihad is the greatest of deeds.

From his base of the Lewisham Islamic Centre, Mr Begg has been

involved in a number of community organisations, including

the Police Independent Advisory Group in Lewisham,

Lewisham Council's Advisory Council on Religious Education

and as a volunteer chaplain at Lewisham Hospital.

But in his judgment, Mr Justice Haddon-Cave called

Mr Begg a Jekyll and Hyde character - a trusted figure in his local

community, but when talking to predominantly Muslim audiences

he shed the cloak of respectability and revealed the horns of extremism.

The judge cited one speech made by Mr Begg at a rally

outside Belmarsh Prisonm- the high security prison that houses

terrorists - as particularly sinister.

The judge said the imam was expressing admiration and praise

Following Friday's judgment, the hospital trust have told us that

Mr Begg's status as a voluntary chaplain has been terminated.

We have been told by Lewisham Council he is no longer

on their Religious Education Committee.

The Metropolitan Police have confirmed that

Mr Begg remains a member of their Independent Advisory Group

in Lewisham, as well as the borough's faith group.

I am joined by Haras Rafiq, chief executive of the Quilliam

Foundation. Welcome to the programme. I have here in my hand a

statement from the trustees of the Lewisham Islamic Centre. They reject

the judge's ruling as fanciful and say they are unequivocal and

unwavering in their support of Shakeel Begg as their head imam

What do you make of that? To be honest, it doesn't surprise me. At

the end of the day he is only the imam of that mosque because he

belongs to the same theological fundamentalist views that the mosque

would portray. If they were to say he was an extremist, they would be

saying in fact that they have allowed extremist preaching and

extremist theology within their walls. I think this is a very

important decision and a very important judgment by the judge

First of all, these people like to operate in a linear, under a veneer

of respectability. When that veneer is taken away, there are a number of

things that can happen. First of all, the BBC did very well to stand

by their guns and say, we're not going to be intimidated by somebody

who is threatening to taking -- to take us to court for potential

libel. Many other media companies have done that in the past and

people have capitulated. Also, this has exposed him. Legally now, here's

some deal can be classified as an extremist preacher, somebody who

promotes religious violence. I think the mosque really needs to take a

step back and say, how we part of the problem that we are facing

within society? Or are we going to be part of the solution? It really

concerns me. The High Court judge says that Mr Begg's speeches were

consistent with an extremist Salafist is the most worldview. What

is Salafist is and how widespread is it in UK mosques? -- mosque. It

comes from the Middle East. It is from Saudi Arabia. The enemy for

them was the old colonial Ottoman Empire. There is the quiet Salafist

to get some with their lives, lives outside society. There is a

revolutionary who tries to convert other people to their worldview And

then there is the Salafist jihad ease. People like Islamic State etc.

We have seen of increased in recent decades because of money that has,

growing from the Middle East. When that is mixed with a political

ideology, it becomes potent. Do we have a political -- particular

problem in Britain with this in our mosques? Absolutely. Without the

theology that says hate the other, hate other Muslims, that

excommunicate other people, that says it is OK to fight and is good

to fight when you have got an enemy, we wouldn't really have a jihadi

problem. Really that is something we have to tackle. The number of

mosques and institutions supporting Salafist and Islam is has been on

the increase. Do we have a problem with what the judge called Jekyll

and Hyde characters who hide their extremism except when they are

speaking to specific groups? Absolutely. One of the things we

have focused on in the past, a number of hate preachers now in

prison, people like Anjem Choudary, and everybody focused on them. But

there is a range of people operating under that level. People who will

show one face to the community because they actually need that for

a respectability. They need that for a legitimacy. They need that to

operate. When they are behind closed doors and talking to their

constitution, that is when you will see the real face of what these

people believe. It is an increasing phenomenon. We are seeing it more.

And we're going to carry on seeing it. Not just has the Lewisham mosque

stuck by him, but given the clarity of the judge's ruling, are you

surprised that the Metropolitan police would wish to continue with

Mr Begg as an adviser? I'm absolutely shocked that that

decision. What Uzzy going to do Advise them on how to deal with

extremist preachers and promote religiously motivated violence? I

don't know what he's going to advise them on. Because we now have a judge

that has ruled against him and actually classified him as an

extremist and somebody who promotes religious violence, we actually have

a possibility for the CPS to actually prosecute him. There is a

law that has been in place since 2005 called religiously motivated

violence. If he has been classified as somebody who promotes this, there

is a potential for the CPS to prosecute. I want to called into

question other organisations, interfaith organisations, other

Muslims groups, who say they want to fight extremism, I call on them to

say, this guy is an extremist preacher, we should cut our ties

from him. This was a very high risk strategy by the BBC. The exposure

could have been over ?1.5 million of licence payers money. Will this make

it more difficult for Jekyll and Hyde characters to behave as Mr Begg

has behaved? Absolutely. It will do. One of the things they will now have

to make sure is that they are a lot more careful. Careful with what they

say to their own constituency. It won't solve the theological problem.

But it will actually stop other people from operating in this manner

and allow other media organisations to have the confidence to expose

them when they do. Haras Rafiq, thank you for joining us.

It's just gone 11.35, you're watching the Sunday Politics.

We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now

Coming up here in 20 minutes, the Week Ahead.

do women still have more hurdles to clear in sport?

We have the highest female participation

So, the more funding out there the better,

And on the political playing field with me are Louise Bours, Ukip Euro

MEP for North West England, and Mark Menzies,

We have to start with Ukip, don t we? According to the party, Steven

Woolfe, your fellow MEP, until recently one of your Ukip

colleagues, was to blame for starting the scuffle which left him

in hospital. But the presiddnt of the European Parliament has said

that this now needs to be investigated further. Let's see what

he had to say. TRANSLATION: There is a cle`r

suspicion that Mr Woolfe was subjected to an act of violence,

which is why we referred This is completely political

on behalf of the European Union trying to cause maximum

embarrassment for Ukip, as if there wasn't

enough there already. Even Nigel Farage says all this is a

bit embarrassing, hard to argue with him, isn't it?

Absolutely, people shouldn't be behaving in that fashion. Stephen

has now led, I do hope sincdrely he can get his life back contr`ct. I

really do hope that sincerely. It is embarrassing, it isn't how we should

behave. But it isn't indicative of the whole party. I think th`t's

important to note. I think this is something we can now move on from.

We've got a very exciting ldadership election coming up, hopefully we can

put this sorry mess behind ts and lesson from it, leave it in the

past. Let's have a look at

the runners and riders to hdlp the UK Independence Party

through its recent turmoil. The bookmakers now have another

North West MEP, Paul Nuttall, as odds-on to take over -

followed by Raheem Kassam, Suzanne Evans and Peter Whittle -

though they still rate Nigel Farage as a better prospect than hhm,

despite Mr Farage Louise Bours, I'm guessing that

you're backing Paul Nuttall, because you two are together?

Absolutely, I am backing Patl, he is a cable, confident, experienced

politician, and Ukip member. The members of Ukip trust Paul, I think,

definitely, at this time we need that, we need experience, someone

who is going to unify the p`rty I think Paul is the person to do that.

great as that to the party, but I great as that to the party, but I

think in this instance Paul will be the president to bring us together

and awards were we need to take the party.

But didn't stand last time, and that wasn't that long ago, does he really

want it? And think he feels it's his duty,

after seeing what happened last time. He's committed many ydars of

his life to Ukip and to the members and to the north West, and he feels

bound to take this on. He fdels he bound to take this on. He fdels he

is the man to take this fight to labour in the north.

What about in a place like Tunbridge Wells, what they like and there

Paul has support from all across membership, north, south, e`st and

west. Paul is the most experienced candidates, he was our chairman for

many years before becoming `n MEP and deputy leader. I think that will

resonate with the members and they will know that in Paul they will

have a leader they can belidve in and trust.

A vital confidence from you there. Mark Menzies, I want to talk to you

about Vauxhall, because concern there for workers at Ellesmdre Port

this week. after taking a $400

million hit from Brexit. The company said it would do

"whatever was necessary" after taking a $400

million hit from Brexit. The Prime Minister went to the plant

during the referendum campahgn. The company employs 1700 people

making the Astra at the sitd. Should those workers be worried now,

given the news from Nissan over I hope the workers haven't got calls

to be worried. Your pico sedking to someone who is a box Astra driver, I

don't just talk about the product, I believe in it. This is coming on the

back of some of the Brexit fears were heard about Nissan and Toyota,

and just this week, we've h`d the confirmation that Nissan is building

two new models here in the TK. We're seeing the same confirmation from

Toyota and JCB. What we havd to do is understand what the concdrns of

the Vauxhall workers are. From a Government level, work everx bit as

hard as we did with Nissan to allay those fears and make sure those jobs

in the North West are securd. I think, it's fair to say, xou are a

reluctant Remainer. No people voted, we come out and say, I was `

Brexiteer? I have BAE Systems building

Eurofighter in my constituency, to making sure the economic case for

Brexit had to be right. People voted, the decision is clear, UK has

voted to leave the European Union. The Prime Minister from the top of

the Government down, has made it clear, Brexit is something that is

going to happen, we have to make sure it doesn't happen in a way that

damages any dogs in the UK. And Brexit is Brexit, whatever that

may mean. Thank you. Council leaders across

Greater Manchester have signed off plans for almost a quarter

of a million new homes But some local MPs and residents

are angry because chunks of the green belt will go,

as Kevin Fitzpatrick reports. We're just entering off Platt Lane,

Westhoughton. In the Westhoughton area in Bolton,

residents have spent years All the trees you can see there

they're all the houses They're already busy

opposing housing plans, but their battle just got tougher,

with the launch of Greater We breathe from these

lands and trees. We do need more houses,

but don't take the greenfields. The councils say 225,000 new houses

need to be built to cope with the expected population growth

of 300,000 in the next decade. So they've had to outline

where those homes could go. By doing this collectively

with our colleagues across `ll ten local authorities in

Greater Manchester, we're able to say that you get

sustainable development that contributes to jobs,

growth, contributes to making sure we have homes

people want to live in. And I think there's

a desire for that. These are the current

green belt areas. If plans are approved, it would mean

some of those sites would bdcome This area of green belt land in high

Lane in Stockport is on the list Currently, you can only

build on green belt But some MPs are concerned that

in future, just being listed on this spatial framework will be considered

exceptional and enough Stockport could lose

9% of its green belt, and one of the town's MPs

says that's unacceptable. It means that, around here,

we could be facing upwards of 4 00 homes in the area just

immediately behind me. My plan is to lobby the Govdrnment

to make sure we have a policy, nationally, whereby brownfidld

development is preferable The councils incest brown bdlt sites

will be prioritised, but due to the scale

of the anticipated allotments, building in currently protected

areas is thought to be inevhtable. We don't believe we can contain

all that growth, housing and employment growth,

within the existing urban area. Therefore, we have to look `t how

we might sensibly and sensitively develop outside the urban area

inside the green belt. An eight-week consultation hs now

underway before another draft plan Any builder will still have to go

through the full planning process, but it appears that land th`t has

always been considered out of bounds Mark Menzies, how would you feel

about green belt land in yotr constituency making way for new

homes? It's something - and I have 650

houses that already have pl`nning position in my constituency, many of

those insensitive sites on the edge of villages - it's don't thhnk they

need to build new houses with making sure they are built on the right

currently on have made it vdry clear currently on have made it vdry clear

that we want to prioritise that honour Brownfield sites. We also

want to make sure that if you get planning permission on rank your

sites, don't land bank it, get on and build the houses people need. At

the moment there is an imbalance, too much power to developments, not

enough to communities. But green belt development hn your

constituency, what do you oppose it? Some of the planning permission we

have challenged, we have just heard from a standing, young local MP he

is striking that balance between protecting green belt and providing

affordable homes for young, local people. It is a difficult b`lance,

but one he is getting right in Stockport.

Louise Bours, UK policy on housing - local homes for local peopld - what

does that mean? If you read the manifesto wd issued

last year for the general election, it's all about privatising people

who come from that area when it comes to local housing. There are

people who should be at the top but those less when it comes to social

housing that come from that area. That is hard to disagree with, that

is how we have families and family networks. Also, veterans, for

example, they struggle to gdt on housing ladder. They should have

priority as well. We want to see local people, veterans, and also, if

I could just quickly say, wd have such a huge private market, also

trying to make private landlords extend rental contracts to get

people in bit more security in terms of how long they can stay in an

area. Social housing, you would btild more

council houses? Absolutely, we have to build a

council houses, at the moment, developers are doing the job.

They're not providing us with affordable homes. Planning policy,

they have to issue a us there is going to be a percentage of

affordable housing. But what they think of as affordable and what is

and should the reality for lany men and women and families is the

opposite. You're making noises of agrdement

there, under Thatcher and C`meron it was all about owning your own home?

Owning your own home is a priority for this Government, we havd seen

ownership of all over the l`st decade. But it's about making sure

you have affordable homes. Some people, renting may be the right

thing for them, but affordable homes for people to get onto the property

market, at the mammoth, simhle people are being priced out.

What about mate council houses? What about mate council houses?

It's not just about budding council houses. This business that ht had to

be a council before, or owner-occupier. There are so many

more models available to provide housing solutions. I'll givd you an

example, Adam at we're building houses, three or four bedroom

houses, detached houses, all I did get. Not enough bungalows for older

people. If you have bungalows, that allows older people to move out of

homes, freeing them up for xounger families.

Chances are your keepy-uppids might not be as good

Tracey Crouch was in Sheffidld this week to open a new football centre.

A bit of camera trickery here if you look closely,

but the minister is a qualified coach

But why do so many girls drop out of sport in their teens,

and do they compete on a level playing field with the boys?

They were centre stage on the hero's parade.

But behind the medals and mdmories, what is a reality

The figures are pretty tellhng, half as many women aged 16-24 do

Just one in ten at the age of 1 do the required amount

There was no shortage of activity at this junior netball club.

Liverpool and England footb`ller, James Milner, who has a young

daughter, was visiting to m`ke a donation from his charity.

From my experience, when I was at school,

it seemed girls went out of sport a lot quicker than the boys did

But I think the more female role models we have,

that's going to keep girls interested in sport

If our funding can help that, that's what we're there to do.

The coach of Manchester's Stper League netball team says more money

would help female sports like hers reach their goals.

Ultimately, more funding would be great.

At the moment, we are growing, netball is getting huge.

I think we've got the highest female participation

Cheshire East is the most active area in the North West,

but here in Crewe it wasn't difficult to find young womdn

I unfortunately stopped to concentrate on GCSEs.

I don't know, it was just, kind of...

Yeah, once you go to collegd, you just sort of stop all that.

In this country, it's unheard of, really.

They all work at the Wingatd Centre, a Cheshire charity and gymn`stics

club, which produced Olympic medallist Bryony Page.

At 14, other things come into it, like boys,

I think there's also a huge generation of teenagers that spend

a lot of time posting photoshopped pictures on Instagram.

I think, for us, the differdnce is we've had positive sports

experiences, whereas a lot of people, friends and family,

are intimidated or scared bx it because they've had negativd

Mission accomplished, history is made in Manchestdr!

Manchester City are champions, women's football is growing.

But the area's biggest club, Manchester United, doesn't

I don't understand it, I've never understood it.

The Manchester United fans had a petition going with signatures

I've written to them, fans raised a petition,

But is really is about time, as women's football progresses.

They're not a complete club unless they have a women's team

Manchester United has said ht works with 2500 girls in the commtnity,

and has successful female youth sides.

But many see their stance as further evidence that women may be dqual

when it comes to Olympic and Paralympic medals,

but, below that, there are still hurdles to overcole.

Joining us is Sophie Walker, leader of the Women's Equality Party,

which formed last year, and next month holds its first-ever

Sophie Walker, the issue of Manchester United not having a

women's sides... It's appalling, Manchester Tnited

should be leading the way on this. It also goes against the FA's own

quality policy, which is th`t clubs should be sharing facilities,

physio, space in the club shops for Kate, they should be sharing details

of teams on the website. Not even have a team in the first pl`ce is a

major problem. But one of the things your report alluded to the dim light

touch on is that when 93 prdsent of all the sport broadcast in this

country focuses on men's sports there's very little opportunity to

resent to women and girls and aspirational Rollins boards. We

still don't see them being lauded in the same way that male Olympians

are. When you Google female Olympians, you get a list of who's

hottest. Does this start in school, this

problem for a perils? I think the problem is that girls do

not see it broadcast as a choice. We've got 93 present sport focusing

on a male sport, so what is in that for girls to aspire to? We know that

seeing it, if you see it, you can be it. We know there's the sport

England, This Peril Can Campaign. When sponsorship deals coming,

sponsorship deals review must boards were 0.4% UK sports deals. @nd there

is that little attention pahd by our ad institutions, when femald

athletes are not paid the s`me amount as male sportsmen, it is no

surprise girls do not want to play sports. I don't think it's

particular effective then what is for blame on schools.

Louise Bours, I want as, yot're women, deuce do sports?

I have to hold my hands up `nd say no, I do not. SFA had come to me, I

would have said exactly what survey has just said, I think the ledia,

unfortunate, have a huge sh`re of the blame in this. Lots of girls

participate in it team sports, but not necessarily football, for

example. Where do we see net bowl on TV regularly? Lots of girls

dissipate in dans regularly, there are whole platter or of sports that

girls participate in, but wd don't see it. Where is women's football?

We have match of the day, wd see it everywhere, women's football is now

held in much better if steal than it was, but we don't see it in the same

relevance as we do at the m`le game. Manchester United did not w`nt

comments are not having a women s side. Mike Menzies, in the hnterest

of quality, do you do sports? I did a little bit, -- I don't do

it, but I watch sport. The women's hockey final was gripping. The BBC

should be proud as aloud th`t match to run on past the ten o'clock News.

Get the news waiting to allow the nation to watch a British, female

team win gold. That was an hconic moment for British sport and women

sport. But more needs to be done. What about more funding?

A is going in up to 2016 in order to fund that level. I have to say,

Manchester United should be taking a leaf out of the book of my local

team, Fylde football club m`g, - Fylde Football Club and havd a

women's team. Is there a place for you on the

political map? Absolutely, we decided to sdt

ourselves up in 2015 becausd were coming up to yet another general

election where the needs and experiences of women in this country

were yet again being presented as an afterthought.

But we had to Reza May as the Prime Minister? She's not shy abott using

the word feminist. And it's great, you cannot linimise

the importance of having a female role model like Theresa May. But

there is a big difference in having one woman at the top of a p`rty and

having a greater representation of women in politics overall - because

men at number one in two to one in Westminster and local counchls but

also having the understanding of women's lives as a matter of policy.

Our agenda is to make sure women's lives gets a job as everybody's

gender. Thank you for joining us.

Let's have a look at the rest of the week's news now -

here's Rebecca Pukiello with 60 Seconds.

The chief executive of Southport and Ormskirk NHS Trust

was fired after a year, suspended on full pay.

It has been a long, prolongdd and puzzling process.

We're at the end of the process we still do not know what

Helping our airports take off - Liverpool and Manchester

welcome the announcement of a third runway at Heathrow

Buried, though not dead - the National Grid puts a new power

cable underground to protect the Lake District, but therd

will still be pylons across the Furness Peninsul`.

This is just a disaster for the landscape of the estuary.

Manchester's first openly g`y Lord Mayor, Carl Austin-Beh`n,

said he was subjected to homophobic abuse outside

And air quality from the Lake District to Liverpool

was tested by the special rdsearch plane as part of the

It will now help councils ctt emissions.

Thank you to my guests this week - Louise Bours and Mark Menzids.

Now I'll hand you back to Andrew Neil in London.

Barely more than a week now until polling day,

and a new revelation rocks the US Presidential election campaign.

If it wasn't bizarre enough, it just got more bizarre.

The FBI have reopened their investigation into Hillary Clinton's

use of private email servers whilst she was Secretary

of State, after the discovery of further emails.

Though not on her laptop or even the State Department.

Donald Trump is saying that it's bigger than Watergate -

so could it swing the election in his favour?

We spoke to top US pollster, Frank Luntz.

The FBI investigation is happening so late in the election process

that it would be very difficult to derail a Clinton victory.

That said, if there is one thing that could keep Hillary Clinton

from the presidency, it's an FBI investigation.

But there's still only four states that really matter, Florida, Ohio,

Right now, Clinton has beyond the margin of error leads

This would have to have a truly significant impact for the election

There is a point about a week ago when I was prepared to say that

Clinton had a 95% chance of winning this election.

Based on what has happened in the last 48 hours,

It is still very likely, but I wouldn't bet on it.

I thought the 2000 election would be the best election of my lifetime,

And then I thought 2008 would be amazing, because we had two

challenger candidates and the first African-American President.

It is ugly, it's painful, it is as negative as anything

The public is angry, the country, overall, is frustrated.

But for entertainment value, these candidates probably should

have charged us money, because it's better than any movie

at ever seen, it's better than any TV show.

That was Frank Luntz. He may be right or wrong about Mrs Clinton

still having an 80% chance of winning. I would bet on an 80%

chance? Yes, absolutely. I spoke to a high-profile American pollster and

strategist last night and he took a rather different view to Frank

Luntz. He thought, and I think some other high-profile commentators

agree, that this is actually much more serious than some people

realise. There are an awful lot of undecided voters out there looking

for an excuse to vote Trump. They do not like what they see in either

candidate. But because this FBI probe is not going to conclude

before the election, the question, the doubt over Hillary Clinton,

gives them an excuse to back Trump. The thing that will play on the

minds of the voters is, could the 100 day honeymoon turning to the 100

day divorce? Which even be impeached? It may give some people

an excuse not to vote for Mrs Clinton. It could provide a problem

in terms of energising her base The battle ground almost matters more

than the polls. Florida and Pennsylvania have been trending to

Mrs Clinton. Mr Trump needs to win both. He does not get in without

both. He needs both. Just coming up in the latest BBC News, the

Washington Post tracking poll, Mrs Clinton is now only one point ahead

in the national poll. One point Even given my caveat that the state

battles are most important. That is incredibly close? It is. Polls

yesterday showed Trump nationally closing of. -- up. There is a clear

trend and movement. This has reinforced everything that people

who have a problem with Hillary Clinton know about Hillary Clinton.

Trump is running this insurgent campaign. We have seen at here with

Brexit. If you are running an insurgent campaign, you want to be

against the ultimate establishment insider and that is what Hillary

Clinton is. I suggested it was bizarre. Fathoming the behaviour of

the FBI is interesting as well. This is a separate investigation into a

former congressman, Anthony Wiener, who had done all sorts of things. He

seemed to be sex text thing a minor. A 15-year-old girl. The FBI

investigate. They get his laptop to see what else he has been too. In

the course of that, his wife, now separated, the closest adviser to

Hillary Clinton, they find on the laptop e-mails involving the Clinton

server to her. And yet the FBI cannot, it needs now a separate

warrant to access these e-mails It hasn't got that yet. It has got a

warrant to do the congressman e-mails. On the basis of not knowing

the content, this has happened. Yeah. Who knows? He is a Republican,

this guy. Earlier this year he was being praised to the hilt by

Democrats. Absolutely. The timing is a nightmare for her. You described

the whole sequence. There is nothing definitive to doubt in this

sequence. All he is saying is he has discovered more e-mails in effect.

They are from the congressman's former wife. On Anthony Wiener's

laptop, which apparently she used sometimes. But what that shows is

that for all the scrutiny of modern politicians, they cannot escape

caricature. And as Tim was just saying, her weakness is perceived to

be secretive, elitism and complacency about that elitism. And

so just the announcement of a reopening of the investigation so

fuels that caricature, you have just revealed a poll giving her a 1%

lead. That must be related to what has happened. It is without a shred

of evidence that she has done anything wrong. You can see how

because people only see things encourage kids, that is deadly

serious. -- in caricature. An American friend of mine said we have

got our October surprise but we don't know what it is. The FBI must

surely come under massive pressure. It did its -- it did this against

the Justice Department. The difficulty the FBI had was that this

information, for what it's worth, it came to them. Were they not to have

said something and it worked to have come out later, they would have been

accused of a massive cover-up. They are dammed if they do, dammed if

they don't. There is still time for another surprise. And early November

surprise. Who knows if there might still be something that comes out on

Donald Trump? This is the first election where I can remember we

have had two October surprises already. There are is stuff about

tapes knocking around about Donald Trump saying racist things. The

Clintons have got a lot of friends. It would be a big surprise if we did

not see anything else in the next few days.

Just when you think it could not get more interesting, it has. There has

been plenty in the papers lately about the Ukip leadership saying

unpleasant things about each other. But what about Mr Farage himself?

What's he up to? Well, on BBC Two tonight we may

find out the answer. Well, I'm led to believe

she's very experienced. But I don't think Strictly Come

Dancing is for me. That is, unless, of course,

you fancy popping a cheeky zero No, I don't think Strictly

Come Dancing is for me. Well, you tell Mr Balls he has just

lost your programme one viewer. I might have nothing to do these

days but, realistically, Well, that wasn't Nigel Farage. It

is a BBC comedy on tonight. Nigel Farage gets his life back. A number

of runners and riders. Let's come straight down to it. Who would be

the next leader of Ukip? Probably Paul Nuttall. He is the favourite.

The one who has the backing, not very enthusiastic backing, is Rahim

Cassandra. And also Aaron Banks a big donor. The best of a rather weak

lot. I think Paul Nuttall should squeak through. I interviewed all

three of them this week. Mr Cassandra is a lively character and

he knows how to make a few headlines. With a bit of money

behind him, anything is possible. This is a guy who has been to the

States, who has literally studied what Trump has done. Pees on

secondment for the time being. The guy who is his line manager is one

of Donald Trump's campaign stop He is extraordinarily right-wing. I am

told he kept a picture of Enoch Powell by his bed. Barry Goldwater

is one of his heroes, for example. There are other candidates. I would

suggest, put out as a hypothesis, Paul Nuttall is Labour's worst

nightmare. They are more vulnerable in the North. Paul Nuttall is from

Merseyside, a working-class background, performs well on

television. He is a really good interviewee. He is one of the best

around in politics at the moment. However, I think whoever gets it has

a massive task. The clip of this Nigel Farage satire partly shows

why. His dominance was overwhelming. He, in many ways, did a brilliant

job at keeping the show on the road. The trouble for all new political

parties is keeping it going is tough. A very different party, the

SDP, with all those glamorous figures in it, lasted eight years,

something like that. I think they are in real trouble at the moment

because of the implosion we have been seeing in front of our eyes and

the ideal -- ideological splits Whoever gets it will face a tough

tussle. All three of the main contenders want to put Nigel Farage

in the House of Lords. They were falling over themselves to soak up

two farads. That is how you win this election.

Mr Aaron Banks, who is he putting his money on? He said he supports

Rahim. I know Mr Banks is utterly fed with the shenanigans in Ukip. He

thinks it is terribly disorganised, dysfunctional and doesn't want a

great deal to do with it for the foreseeable future.

It is not quite Trump the Clinton but it is interesting. That is it.

The Daily Politics is back tomorrow. And all of next week. Jo Coburn will

be your next Sunday because I am off to the United States to begin to

rehearse presenting the BBC's US election night coverage on the th

of November. It will be here on BBC One, BBC

world, BBC News Channel and BBC online.

Remember if it's Sunday, it's the Sunday Politics.

A stone stained with blood and beset with a curse.

The Moonstone is of inestimable value in India.

Its appointed guardians would move heaven and earth to reclaim it

Let us not let the past haunt all of our actions.

You've got to do something! It's only you that can!

He's a scientist, brilliant apparently.

But you may be bringing people over here who did things during the war.

I will not work for you. I will not work for the British Government

Let us not let the past haunt all of our actions.