Browse content similar to 29/01/2017. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Donald Trump's travel ban on refugees and citizens of seven | :01:07. | :01:10. | |
mainly Muslim countries sparks protests at several US airports. | :01:11. | :01:12. | |
And in the north-west: Is the Northern Powerhouse picking up pace? | :01:13. | :01:15. | |
Plus, the Lancashire MP taking the lead on loneliness, | :01:16. | :01:17. | |
part of the legacy of the late Jo Cox. | :01:18. | :01:23. | |
Should she have spoken out more strongly? | :01:24. | :01:25. | |
We'll ask former Ukip leader and Trump confidant Nigel Farage | :01:26. | :01:27. | |
what he makes of the travel ban and the Prime Minister's | :01:28. | :01:30. | |
In London this week, the mayor, Sadiq Khan, | :01:31. | :01:33. | |
has been coming under pressure to explain his fares freeze | :01:34. | :01:35. | |
and why it doesn't apply to everybody. | :01:36. | :01:37. | |
And with me, the best and brightest political | :01:38. | :01:39. | |
panel in the business - Steve Richards, Julia | :01:40. | :01:41. | |
They'll be tweeting throughout the programme. | :01:42. | :01:43. | |
It was soon after Theresa May left the White House on Friday that | :01:44. | :01:46. | |
Donald Trump signed the executive order banning citizens from seven | :01:47. | :01:49. | |
President Trump's 90-day ban covers Iran, Iraq, | :01:50. | :01:55. | |
Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen and Syria, from | :01:56. | :01:58. | |
where refugees are banned from until further notice. | :01:59. | :02:03. | |
Donald Trump's executive order also imposes a complete ban | :02:04. | :02:05. | |
on all refugees coming to the US for the next 120 days. | :02:06. | :02:11. | |
Mr Trump said that the ban would keep radical Islamic terrorists out | :02:12. | :02:14. | |
But the ban has sparked protests across the US, | :02:15. | :02:23. | |
as people affected and already in the air were detained | :02:24. | :02:25. | |
US laws have begun legal action to challenge the ban, which many | :02:26. | :02:29. | |
At a press conference in Ankara, Turkey, Theresa May was asked | :02:30. | :02:35. | |
about the refugee ban three times before giving this response... | :02:36. | :02:40. | |
Well, the United States is responsible for the United States' | :02:41. | :02:42. | |
The United Kingdom is responsible for the United Kingdom's policy | :02:43. | :02:48. | |
on refugees, and our policy on refugees is to have a number | :02:49. | :02:51. | |
of voluntary schemes to bring Syrian refugees into the country. | :02:52. | :02:54. | |
Downing Street later issued a statement saying: | :02:55. | :03:08. | |
This morning, the Treasury Minister, David Gauke, was asked why | :03:09. | :03:11. | |
Theresa May had refused to condemn the travel ban at yesterday's | :03:12. | :03:14. | |
The Prime Minister is not a shoot-from-the-hip | :03:15. | :03:20. | |
She wants to see the evidence, she wants | :03:21. | :03:24. | |
to understand precisely what the implications are. | :03:25. | :03:28. | |
She'd been in a series of very lengthy meetings with | :03:29. | :03:31. | |
President Erdogan, and she's someone who wants to see the briefing and | :03:32. | :03:35. | |
understand it, and then will respond to that. | :03:36. | :03:38. | |
I think there are times where, you know, there's always | :03:39. | :03:41. | |
pressure to respond within a news cycle and so on. | :03:42. | :03:44. | |
The important thing is, we are saying we disagree with it | :03:45. | :03:47. | |
We're joined now from North London by the Conservative | :03:48. | :03:50. | |
Should the Government in general and Theresa May in particular be more | :03:51. | :04:02. | |
vocal in their criticism of Donald Trump's travel bans? Well, as David | :04:03. | :04:11. | |
just said, it is obviously right that Theresa has now said this is an | :04:12. | :04:15. | |
appropriate and not something we agree with in our Government, but I | :04:16. | :04:19. | |
wish she had said something at the time, not least because it affects | :04:20. | :04:26. | |
our own citizens. One of our own MPs, Nadhim, for example, because it | :04:27. | :04:29. | |
is also a global crisis. She had clearly built an excellent with | :04:30. | :04:36. | |
Donald Trump -- she had built an excellent relationship with him, but | :04:37. | :04:40. | |
she could have been firmer. Mrs May hasn't said any word of criticism | :04:41. | :04:44. | |
about the travel bans. She refused to say anything three times in | :04:45. | :04:50. | |
Ankara, and it is merely an anonymous Downing Street | :04:51. | :04:53. | |
spokesperson that has issued the subsequent mild criticism. We have | :04:54. | :04:56. | |
not heard from the Prime Minister at all on this matter in terms of | :04:57. | :05:00. | |
criticism. No, but the spokesperson will be speaking with her blessing, | :05:01. | :05:05. | |
so it is clearly something she has acknowledged. As I said before, I | :05:06. | :05:08. | |
wish she had said something at the time. The global climate at the | :05:09. | :05:12. | |
moment is delicate and we need our leaders to work together to address | :05:13. | :05:18. | |
things like the refugee crisis. Potentially, this plays into the | :05:19. | :05:21. | |
hands of Daesh. It is absolutely not the right message. What would you | :05:22. | :05:29. | |
like the Prime Minister to say? As with any new relationship, it is | :05:30. | :05:33. | |
about testing the boundaries. They had clearly got on well, so she | :05:34. | :05:36. | |
should have felt braver to say something there and then. I would | :05:37. | :05:39. | |
have preferred her to say, for example, I need to talk to Donald | :05:40. | :05:42. | |
Trump about this. It is not something I support and I want to | :05:43. | :05:45. | |
understand why because I believe there is a better way to deal with | :05:46. | :05:49. | |
the terrorist threat. I would have liked her to suggest that she would | :05:50. | :05:53. | |
engage with him to do that. The president has instituted a 90 day | :05:54. | :05:57. | |
temporary ban on people coming from seven mainly Muslim majority | :05:58. | :06:03. | |
population countries. The seven were on President Obama's list of the | :06:04. | :06:09. | |
biggest terrorist threats to the United States. Mr Trump wants this | :06:10. | :06:13. | |
temporary ban until he puts tougher vetting procedures in place. What is | :06:14. | :06:19. | |
wrong with that? Because it appeared to me that it wasn't thought through | :06:20. | :06:23. | |
and it was affecting ordinary citizens and some British citizens. | :06:24. | :06:26. | |
It can't be right that a president in that position of power can | :06:27. | :06:31. | |
arbitrarily come up with executive powers like that. It has already | :06:32. | :06:36. | |
been challenged by his own courts. So it is not the considered approach | :06:37. | :06:41. | |
I want to see in a global leader. Who do you believe will be hurt by | :06:42. | :06:45. | |
this, given that there can be exceptions on a case-by-case basis? | :06:46. | :06:58. | |
I think potentially, our global reputation is going to be hurt by | :06:59. | :07:04. | |
this. I have been to the refugee camps in Europe myself. There are | :07:05. | :07:08. | |
desperate people trying to free persecution who will be hurt by | :07:09. | :07:11. | |
this. We are trying to heal the wounds in this country not only | :07:12. | :07:15. | |
because of Brexit. This is a time of coming together, not about saying it | :07:16. | :07:18. | |
is located discriminatory against race and religion in this way. Do | :07:19. | :07:23. | |
you believe that Mr Trump's state visit should go ahead? Well, he is | :07:24. | :07:29. | |
the leader of America, so it does need to go ahead and we need to work | :07:30. | :07:32. | |
with him. I believe Theresa has started in a positive manner was | :07:33. | :07:36. | |
that she just needs to continue in that vein. If he comes to our | :07:37. | :07:39. | |
country, he needs to respect the way we feel about things. But yes, he is | :07:40. | :07:45. | |
the president, so he does need to come to the UK. There is some debate | :07:46. | :07:49. | |
within Westminster as to where it is appropriate for him to speak to MPs, | :07:50. | :07:53. | |
but it is right that he comes. But if he does come on a state visit, | :07:54. | :07:57. | |
should he be granted what this country has always thought of as a | :07:58. | :08:00. | |
great honour, which is a joint address to both Houses of | :08:01. | :08:07. | |
Parliament? I haven't been an MP long enough to understand the | :08:08. | :08:09. | |
protocol of where is the right location for him to do that, but I | :08:10. | :08:14. | |
believe in the past, it has been the greatest leaders, when they have | :08:15. | :08:20. | |
achieved great things globally, it is Westminster Hall. But there are a | :08:21. | :08:24. | |
number of MPs saying that is not the most appropriate place and I am | :08:25. | :08:27. | |
inclined to agree. You don't think he should be accorded the privilege | :08:28. | :08:30. | |
of speaking to a joint session of Parliament? I think there are places | :08:31. | :08:36. | |
where he can do that, but Westminster Hall is not yet the | :08:37. | :08:39. | |
right place. Thank you for joining us. | :08:40. | :08:49. | |
Steve, within 24 hours, we have seen the difficulty of becoming Donald | :08:50. | :08:55. | |
Trump's best friend. On the one hand, it could have huge advantages, | :08:56. | :08:59. | |
particularly for a Brexit Britain. On the other hand, if you are going | :09:00. | :09:04. | |
to be his best friend, you don't have to give a running commentary on | :09:05. | :09:10. | |
every major thing he does. Yeah. We have learned a bit about Theresa | :09:11. | :09:14. | |
May, that when she has to produce a set piece speech which she has time | :09:15. | :09:20. | |
to prepare, she can get it totally right and sometimes more than right. | :09:21. | :09:25. | |
When she is faced with a fast-moving story, she is leaden footed and | :09:26. | :09:33. | |
can't think quickly on her feet. We know, did she regret not saying | :09:34. | :09:38. | |
more? Evidently she did, because we got a statement from the Downing | :09:39. | :09:42. | |
Street spokesperson saying more. So she can't think quickly. She's going | :09:43. | :09:45. | |
to have to think very quickly in response to some of the things he's | :09:46. | :09:48. | |
going to be doing, because she will be asked about it all the time. It | :09:49. | :09:54. | |
does highlight the wider danger that the assumption that the special | :09:55. | :09:59. | |
relationship is always a safe and fertile place to be has been proven | :10:00. | :10:02. | |
wrong before and I think it will be proven wrong big-time in this case. | :10:03. | :10:07. | |
You're shaking your head. I don't see why we are responsible for | :10:08. | :10:12. | |
American domestic policy. I am as appalled as the next person by what | :10:13. | :10:15. | |
Donald Trump has done. He said he was going to do this, which was why | :10:16. | :10:21. | |
I did not want Americans to vote for him. In fact, what he has | :10:22. | :10:25. | |
implemented is much less than what he said he would do when he was | :10:26. | :10:29. | |
campaigning. I have always felt that the campaigning Trump was the real | :10:30. | :10:36. | |
Trump. But what he has done is actually constitutional. He has the | :10:37. | :10:39. | |
executive power to issue this order. It is within the rules in terms of a | :10:40. | :10:44. | |
class of aliens deemed to be a risk to the United States. It is a 90 day | :10:45. | :10:49. | |
limited ban. The last president who did this was a Democrat president, | :10:50. | :10:55. | |
President Carter. He did it in the aftermath of the Iranian crisis. | :10:56. | :10:59. | |
Well, given the spate of terror attacks on American territory in | :11:00. | :11:02. | |
recent years, you could argue that he meant well. I don't agree with | :11:03. | :11:10. | |
Donald Trump. But have people from these countries that he has banned | :11:11. | :11:14. | |
been involved in terrorist attacks? That is the absurdity. He has not | :11:15. | :11:19. | |
included Egypt or Pakistan. But I don't remove everyone getting in | :11:20. | :11:22. | |
such a state about President Carter. The reality is that it is a legal | :11:23. | :11:26. | |
thing for him to do. I don't like it. But it is not my territory. It | :11:27. | :11:35. | |
is illegal, because they have been given a right to remain by a judge | :11:36. | :11:41. | |
in Brooklyn and another judging Alexandra. That is a different issue | :11:42. | :11:45. | |
for people who have already gone through the vetting. I don't agree | :11:46. | :11:51. | |
with this. However, I don't think it's reasonable to say that Theresa | :11:52. | :11:55. | |
May, because she wants to do a deal with Donald Trump, I don't give is | :11:56. | :12:01. | |
reasonable to say she have to agree with each of his policies. It is | :12:02. | :12:06. | |
nonsense. But the issue, Janan, is not whether she needs to agree with | :12:07. | :12:11. | |
him. The question is that she will be questioned about him all the time | :12:12. | :12:16. | |
now. And although these are matters of domestic policy, the refugee | :12:17. | :12:20. | |
policy is international. They speak to issues that affect Britain as | :12:21. | :12:26. | |
well, and I would suggest that she will not get away with this | :12:27. | :12:30. | |
anonymous statement from Downing Street. People will demand a she | :12:31. | :12:34. | |
says something on the record. She would get away with it indefinitely. | :12:35. | :12:38. | |
These situations will recur every time Donald Trump says or does | :12:39. | :12:43. | |
something contentious. She will be pressed to this associate her | :12:44. | :12:47. | |
administration from his. She will probably be in a better logistical | :12:48. | :12:51. | |
situation to do so. She has spent a big chunk of the past 72 hours in | :12:52. | :12:56. | |
the air. She flew from Washington to Ankara, than from Ankara to London. | :12:57. | :13:01. | |
We don't have Air Force One, we don't have those frictionless | :13:02. | :13:03. | |
communications with the ground. She would have been incommunicado for | :13:04. | :13:07. | |
large periods of time when this story was breaking. That doesn't | :13:08. | :13:11. | |
excuse the stiff response when she landed and issued a statement via | :13:12. | :13:15. | |
Downing Street. But during that delay, she did have a plausible | :13:16. | :13:20. | |
excuse. She has also got a much more tricky geopolitical situation than | :13:21. | :13:24. | |
many other world leaders. She has to strike a favourable trade deal with | :13:25. | :13:28. | |
the new US president. It is all very well people saying Justin Trudeau of | :13:29. | :13:32. | |
Canada was much more vociferous in his criticism of Donald Trump. He is | :13:33. | :13:35. | |
already in Nafta, he is not striking a new deal. For how long, we don't | :13:36. | :13:42. | |
know. Exactly, he's trying to stay in Nafta, but he is in a less tricky | :13:43. | :13:44. | |
situation than she is. Now, Theresa May's was the first | :13:45. | :13:48. | |
foreign leader to meet President Trump and the visit | :13:49. | :13:50. | |
was seen as quite a coup for the Prime Minister, | :13:51. | :13:53. | |
keen for a new trading relationship with the United States | :13:54. | :13:55. | |
in the wake of Brexit. The Prime Minister congratulated | :13:56. | :13:58. | |
the new US President for his "stunning election victory" | :13:59. | :14:00. | |
but might not have intended to be pictured walking | :14:01. | :14:02. | |
through the White House with him That picture of Donald Trump helping | :14:03. | :14:04. | |
Theresa May down the steps through the White House colonnade | :14:05. | :14:08. | |
will be the enduring image Mrs May said the President | :14:09. | :14:11. | |
told her he was "100% behind Nato". And for her part, the Prime Minister | :14:12. | :14:20. | |
said she would work hard to make sure other Nato countries | :14:21. | :14:23. | |
increased their defence spending It's been announced | :14:24. | :14:26. | |
that there will be a new trade negotiation agreement, | :14:27. | :14:33. | |
with high-level talks The hope is that this will lead | :14:34. | :14:34. | |
to a new trade deal between the two countries as soon as | :14:35. | :14:39. | |
Britain leaves the EU. Mr Trump said he believed "Brexit's | :14:40. | :14:44. | |
going to be a wonderful thing". On Russia, Theresa May made clear | :14:45. | :14:47. | |
to Donald Trump her continued | :14:48. | :14:49. | |
backing for sanctions. And following the controversy over | :14:50. | :14:55. | |
the President's support for torture, Mr Trump said he would defer | :14:56. | :14:57. | |
to his Secretary of Defense, General James Mattis, who argues | :14:58. | :15:00. | |
that the practice doesn't work. And I'm joined now by the former | :15:01. | :15:04. | |
Ukip leader, Nigel Farage. Do you agree with Mr Trump's | :15:05. | :15:19. | |
decision to ban Syrian refugees indefinitely from entering the | :15:20. | :15:24. | |
United States? I agree with the concept of democracy, a point which | :15:25. | :15:28. | |
appears to be missed by almost all commentators including the BBC. He | :15:29. | :15:32. | |
was elected to get tough and say he would do everything in his power to | :15:33. | :15:36. | |
protect America from infiltration by ISIS terrorists. There are seven | :15:37. | :15:44. | |
countries on that list. He's entitled to do this. I didn't ask if | :15:45. | :15:50. | |
he was entitled, I asked if agree with it. I do, because if you just | :15:51. | :15:56. | |
look at what's happening in France and Germany, if you look at Angela | :15:57. | :15:59. | |
Merkel's policy which was to allow virtually anyone in from anywhere, | :16:00. | :16:06. | |
look what it led to. You said in 2013 there's a responsibility on all | :16:07. | :16:09. | |
of us in the free west to help some of those people fleeing Syria | :16:10. | :16:15. | |
literally in fear of their lives. That's the Christian community in | :16:16. | :16:19. | |
virtually all of those country, it is almost too late because many have | :16:20. | :16:23. | |
been wiped out but if you are looking for a genuine definition of | :16:24. | :16:28. | |
a refugee, going back to 1951, it is someone in direct fear of | :16:29. | :16:33. | |
persecution of their life because of their race, religion or beliefs. But | :16:34. | :16:37. | |
you didn't talk about only Christians, and in January 2014 you | :16:38. | :16:41. | |
said, I seem to recall it was Ukip who started the debate on allowing | :16:42. | :16:45. | |
Syrian refugees, you seem to be in favour of allowing proper refugees | :16:46. | :16:52. | |
into this country. If they can be defined. Mr Trump won't let any in. | :16:53. | :17:00. | |
He is running American policy, not British policy. Since I made those | :17:01. | :17:04. | |
comments, we have had the Angela Merkel madness and I think Trump's | :17:05. | :17:08. | |
policy in many ways has been shaped by what Angela Merkel did. He is | :17:09. | :17:14. | |
fully entitled to do this, and as far as we are concerned in this | :17:15. | :17:16. | |
country, I would like to see extreme vetting. Since 9/11 can you name any | :17:17. | :17:26. | |
terrorist event in the United States that has involved refugees that have | :17:27. | :17:31. | |
been allowed into the country? No, in fact the terrorist events have | :17:32. | :17:36. | |
been US citizens radicalised. When you have a problem already, why | :17:37. | :17:40. | |
would you wish to add to it? I would remind you that of the eight people | :17:41. | :17:44. | |
that committed those atrocities in Paris, five of them had got into | :17:45. | :17:48. | |
Europe posing as refugees so there is an issue here. But perhaps not | :17:49. | :17:53. | |
for America because it has the most rigorous and lengthy screening | :17:54. | :17:57. | |
process in the world, especially for Syrians. You have to register with | :17:58. | :18:02. | |
the UN agency for refugees, which then recommend certain names to | :18:03. | :18:07. | |
America, they then go through biometric screening, database | :18:08. | :18:10. | |
screening, intelligent screenings, including four separate intelligence | :18:11. | :18:21. | |
agencies screening you. How more rigorous would you want it to be? It | :18:22. | :18:29. | |
is much more rigorous than we are or the rest of Europe. This is why we | :18:30. | :18:32. | |
have elections, so voters can make choices and they voted for Donald | :18:33. | :18:35. | |
Trump to become president and he said he would put bans in place and | :18:36. | :18:42. | |
then move towards extreme vetting. As far as the Syrians are concerned | :18:43. | :18:45. | |
he's made that decision but that's what he was voted in fourth. Since | :18:46. | :18:51. | |
you know him, you have met him, you are confident of his, I'm testing | :18:52. | :18:57. | |
you on the logic of it. Not that he's democratically elected, I'm not | :18:58. | :19:01. | |
asking about that, I'm trying to get the case, particularly since if you | :19:02. | :19:04. | |
take the seven countries of which the ban applies for 19 days, again, | :19:05. | :19:10. | |
of these seven countries, its citizens have not been involved in | :19:11. | :19:14. | |
terrorist attacks in the United States. It would be a mistake to say | :19:15. | :19:18. | |
it is just Muslim countries because the biggest Muslim countries in the | :19:19. | :19:21. | |
world have not been included in this. The point is they have made | :19:22. | :19:25. | |
this assessment, they bought themselves 90 days to think about | :19:26. | :19:30. | |
the policy. This is exactly what Trump's voters would have wanted him | :19:31. | :19:37. | |
to do. You said the President's rhetoric on immigrants made even you | :19:38. | :19:41. | |
feel very uncomfortable. Because he started by saying there was a total | :19:42. | :19:45. | |
ban, then amended it to say there would be vetting. My guess is that | :19:46. | :19:50. | |
what he will do is try to genuinely help Syrian people and he will be | :19:51. | :19:54. | |
talking about the creation of some safe zones. Let's see. He hasn't. We | :19:55. | :20:01. | |
will see. I suspect something like that is coming down the trap. What | :20:02. | :20:07. | |
advice did you give to the president and his advisers ahead of Theresa | :20:08. | :20:13. | |
May's visit? That I wanted us to talk about trade and to give the | :20:14. | :20:17. | |
Prime Minister the impression that actually... When she has been | :20:18. | :20:21. | |
surrounded by her whole career by civil servants and politicians who | :20:22. | :20:26. | |
say that everything takes five years or seven years or ten years, to make | :20:27. | :20:30. | |
it clear to the Prime Minister that if there is will, these things can | :20:31. | :20:34. | |
be done quickly. Isn't there a danger of a British Prime Minister | :20:35. | :20:38. | |
who has to deal with the president of the United States, to Ally | :20:39. | :20:44. | |
herself so closely with such an unpredictable, controversial | :20:45. | :20:49. | |
president, banning Muslims in certain ways and refugees, building | :20:50. | :20:53. | |
a war with Mexico, threatening trade was with other countries, thinking | :20:54. | :20:58. | |
of ending sanctions against Russia? I missing something here, what is | :20:59. | :21:02. | |
controversial about defending the Mexican border? Bill Clinton spoke | :21:03. | :21:07. | |
in tough terms, George Bush built six miles of fence, and because it | :21:08. | :21:12. | |
is Donald Trump there is uproar. So you think there is no risk of the | :21:13. | :21:15. | |
British by Minister being the best friend of this type of president? I | :21:16. | :21:19. | |
think there is no risk in putting together a trade deal and no risk in | :21:20. | :21:23. | |
her being the bridge between America and the rest of Nato to say to Nato | :21:24. | :21:28. | |
members if you don't pay your 2% he is serious so on those things there | :21:29. | :21:34. | |
is no risk at all. It was clear from her Lancaster house speech that the | :21:35. | :21:39. | |
Brexiteers in the Government had won pretty much every argument in terms | :21:40. | :21:42. | |
of negotiations to come out. What you want from her? She was very good | :21:43. | :21:50. | |
as Home Secretary, Tory party conferences, the Tory press saying | :21:51. | :21:53. | |
this was the new Thatcher and she failed. She even failed to control | :21:54. | :21:58. | |
immigration from outside the European Union so yes, it was a good | :21:59. | :22:02. | |
speech and for many on the Eurosceptic side of the argument, I | :22:03. | :22:07. | |
could scarcely believe that a British Prime Minister was saying | :22:08. | :22:10. | |
things which I had been roundly abused and vilified for. But I have | :22:11. | :22:17. | |
a feeling we may be in for a very frustrating 2017. The mood as I can | :22:18. | :22:20. | |
see it in Brussels is that negotiating with Britain is not a | :22:21. | :22:25. | |
priority, they are far more worried about Dutch elections, French | :22:26. | :22:28. | |
elections, German elections and possibly even Italian elections. I | :22:29. | :22:34. | |
worry that by the end of this year we may not have made much progress | :22:35. | :22:36. | |
and that's why the Trump visit suddenly things brings into focus. | :22:37. | :22:43. | |
What if by the middle of June, for argument 's sake, the Americans say | :22:44. | :22:48. | |
OK we reached this position with the British, compromised on the tough | :22:49. | :22:51. | |
stuff, food standards and things like that, we are ready to sign a | :22:52. | :22:57. | |
deal now, and Theresa May is to say actually Mr Juncker says I cannot | :22:58. | :23:01. | |
sign this until we leave. What will they do? They cannot throw us out, | :23:02. | :23:07. | |
we are living anyway. But everybody agrees you can talk about the deal, | :23:08. | :23:11. | |
maybe even do the heads of agreement but you cannot sign a treaty until | :23:12. | :23:16. | |
we have left the EU. Let me predict that at the end of this year we will | :23:17. | :23:20. | |
find a European Union who frankly don't want to talk to us and | :23:21. | :23:23. | |
countries around the world that want to get on and do things and that | :23:24. | :23:28. | |
will be the big tension for Mrs May over the course of this year. If the | :23:29. | :23:33. | |
Prime Minister is giving you everything you want on Brexit, you | :23:34. | :23:36. | |
agree that she's trying to get from your point of view the right things. | :23:37. | :23:41. | |
If she delivers on that and get Brexit on the terms of which you | :23:42. | :23:45. | |
approve, what's the point of Ukip? You could argue that about any | :23:46. | :23:50. | |
political party. If we have achieved the goal that we set out to achieve, | :23:51. | :23:56. | |
there are right now out there 4 million people who are Ukip | :23:57. | :23:59. | |
loyalists. They are delighted that by voting Ukip we got a referendum, | :24:00. | :24:04. | |
they will be even happier if they seek us leave the European Union and | :24:05. | :24:09. | |
I think there is still a gap in British politics for a party that | :24:10. | :24:13. | |
says it as it sees it, is not afraid by political correctness and is seen | :24:14. | :24:16. | |
to be on the side of the little people, and that's why, with the | :24:17. | :24:21. | |
Labour Party is fundamentally split, and it really is totally split over | :24:22. | :24:26. | |
this European question, I think Ukip is in good shape. That proposition | :24:27. | :24:31. | |
will be put to test at the Stoke Central by-election, one of Ukip's | :24:32. | :24:35. | |
best prospects in the country. Some people call it the capital of | :24:36. | :24:39. | |
Brexit. Labour is in chaos over Article 50, is picked a candidate to | :24:40. | :24:46. | |
fight Stoke Central who has described Brexit is a pile of notes. | :24:47. | :24:55. | |
If your successor, Paul Nuttall, cannot win the Stoke by-election, | :24:56. | :24:59. | |
there's not much hope for you, is there? I think he will. I've always | :25:00. | :25:03. | |
been told don't make predictions but I think he will win. If you doesn't | :25:04. | :25:09. | |
it will be tough, we will still have our 4 million loyalists, but if it | :25:10. | :25:15. | |
does we can actually see Labour are beatable in their heartlands and | :25:16. | :25:19. | |
Ukip will be off to the second big stage. Nigel Farage, thank you for | :25:20. | :25:21. | |
being with us. It's just gone 11.25, | :25:22. | :25:23. | |
you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers | :25:24. | :25:24. | |
in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 15 minutes, I'll | :25:25. | :25:27. | |
be talking to our political panel. The Lancashire MP taking a lead | :25:28. | :25:36. | |
on loneliness and the legacy Seema Kennedy on that | :25:37. | :25:41. | |
campaign a little later. But here in this studio | :25:42. | :25:48. | |
we welcome Justin Madders, the Labour MP for Ellesmere Port | :25:49. | :25:50. | |
and Neston, and Mark Menzies, We start with Brexit and this week's | :25:51. | :25:53. | |
ruling that Parliament will vote on whether we begin | :25:54. | :26:00. | |
the exit process. Here are a couple of MPs | :26:01. | :26:03. | |
who've said they will vote The Government are trying | :26:04. | :26:06. | |
to persuade the public they can It is all going to end in tears | :26:07. | :26:11. | |
in one way or another unless people reflect positively, | :26:12. | :26:16. | |
and with clarity, on the outcome when negotiations are complete, | :26:17. | :26:18. | |
and that requires, I think, Up until now, I have not heard | :26:19. | :26:20. | |
any convincing argument from the Government about the kind | :26:21. | :26:27. | |
of negotiation that they want to enter into, which will look | :26:28. | :26:30. | |
after the people of So, no surprises on the Lib Dem | :26:31. | :26:32. | |
stance - they want a public vote Much trickier for Labour | :26:33. | :26:37. | |
MPs and Conservative, whose constituents voted to remain | :26:38. | :26:40. | |
in the European Union, Justin, is Jeremy Corbyn right | :26:41. | :26:43. | |
to impose a three-line whip on this, knowing there will be a big crisis | :26:44. | :26:48. | |
of conscience for lots of his MPs? Well, he is the leader so he has got | :26:49. | :26:52. | |
to lead on these things, and I think sometimes people | :26:53. | :26:55. | |
are a bit unfair on him So, I think the shoe's | :26:56. | :26:58. | |
on the other foot. The criticism of him on this, | :26:59. | :27:01. | |
I think, is a bit misplaced. But I do appreciate that MPs | :27:02. | :27:04. | |
who are representing constituencies who heavily voted for Remain | :27:05. | :27:08. | |
are going to be put in a very difficult position, | :27:09. | :27:11. | |
and they have got to listen to what the constituents say, | :27:12. | :27:13. | |
as well as the wider electorate. Jeff Smith and Ann Coffey have both | :27:14. | :27:17. | |
declared that they will vote Do you think we are likely | :27:18. | :27:19. | |
to see more rebellion? I think, certainly, we have got | :27:20. | :27:24. | |
to look at what the votes That is to try to predict | :27:25. | :27:27. | |
where people are going to vote, and obviously Jeff's example, 76% | :27:28. | :27:31. | |
of his constituents voted Remain, and I don't think anyone can | :27:32. | :27:34. | |
argue that he is not reflecting the wishes of his own | :27:35. | :27:37. | |
individual constituents. But I think the majority of Labour | :27:38. | :27:39. | |
MPs will vote to trigger Article 50. Has the Prime Minister had | :27:40. | :27:45. | |
to compromise twice this week, once conceding to the House when it | :27:46. | :27:48. | |
comes to voting on triggering, and secondly she has said | :27:49. | :27:52. | |
she will reveal her hand when it She did not want to do | :27:53. | :27:55. | |
either of those things. Well, compromise is | :27:56. | :27:58. | |
a word that you use. I would actually say | :27:59. | :28:00. | |
"setting out a clear position". So, you know, people have been | :28:01. | :28:02. | |
asking for some clarity The Prime Minister, | :28:03. | :28:05. | |
not just on the issue of the White Paper this week, | :28:06. | :28:09. | |
but more importantly in the speech that she made the previous week, | :28:10. | :28:12. | |
made it very, very clear on the key points were that she | :28:13. | :28:15. | |
would be entering in And one of the principal thinks | :28:16. | :28:17. | |
that people in the north-west is one of the principal things | :28:18. | :28:23. | |
that the Prime Minister's concerned about, is ensuring | :28:24. | :28:26. | |
that there is no free movement of people in the way | :28:27. | :28:28. | |
that we had in the past, and also ensuring that we have got | :28:29. | :28:31. | |
as much access for British goods and services, not just in Europe | :28:32. | :28:34. | |
but across the globe. Well, we learnt a little bit this | :28:35. | :28:38. | |
week in that respect. One man who has an unenviable task | :28:39. | :28:41. | |
over the next couple of years is Lindsay Hoyle, | :28:42. | :28:44. | |
the Deputy Speaker of the House. He is going to have to go | :28:45. | :28:47. | |
through all of those amendments This is going to be an incredibly | :28:48. | :28:50. | |
messy divorce, isn't it? Do you think the two-year timetable | :28:51. | :28:54. | |
for agreeing on a deal, I suppose one of the criticisms | :28:55. | :28:57. | |
we can marvel at Theresa May is that she could have got | :28:58. | :29:05. | |
on with this process a little bit earlier, | :29:06. | :29:07. | |
had she fought the court case. That has been a complete | :29:08. | :29:10. | |
waste of time and money, because every legal opinion | :29:11. | :29:12. | |
was clear that she was not So we have lost considerable time, | :29:13. | :29:14. | |
but we could have been And I think it is very important, | :29:15. | :29:21. | |
from my constituents' perspective, that the rights that we have got | :29:22. | :29:25. | |
from Europe, particularly in terms of employment protection, | :29:26. | :29:28. | |
are retained, and of course for the manufacturing industry | :29:29. | :29:29. | |
in my area that we have as good access as possible | :29:30. | :29:32. | |
to the free market. And that means no | :29:33. | :29:34. | |
tariffs, if possible. Prime Minister back in the autumn | :29:35. | :29:36. | |
made it very clear that Article 50 Article 50 will be | :29:37. | :29:44. | |
triggered in March. It looks set to the timetable | :29:45. | :29:47. | |
for now, but I am sure we will be The cabinet came to | :29:48. | :29:54. | |
the north-west this week. With an industry-themed 60 | :29:55. | :29:57. | |
Seconds, here's Carol Lowe. From Westminster to Warrington - | :29:58. | :30:04. | |
the Prime Minister brought the top table of Government | :30:05. | :30:06. | |
to the north-west to unveil her industrial strategy and commitment | :30:07. | :30:08. | |
to the local economy. Investment in the Northern | :30:09. | :30:13. | |
Powerhouse that will bring jobs - that's part of our industrial | :30:14. | :30:15. | |
strategy, which is about ensuring the economy is working | :30:16. | :30:18. | |
across the whole country. Later in the week, the Minister | :30:19. | :30:22. | |
in charge of delivering the Northern Powerhouse came | :30:23. | :30:25. | |
to Ellesmere Port to open Also in the money was Blackpool, | :30:26. | :30:28. | |
which is hoping to bring back party conferences with ?15 million | :30:29. | :30:33. | |
of Government funding I hope it will start to make many, | :30:34. | :30:35. | |
many people in Blackpool feel that Labour's Steve Rotheram | :30:36. | :30:43. | |
launched his campaign for metro mayor of the Liverpool City region | :30:44. | :30:48. | |
with a pledge to improve apprenticeships and fight | :30:49. | :30:50. | |
for more devolved powers. And one of the region's most | :30:51. | :30:55. | |
prestigious manufacturers is celebrating a record year - | :30:56. | :30:57. | |
there were bumper sales So, I met the Prime Minister on | :30:58. | :31:01. | |
Monday when she was in Warrington. The thing that stood out | :31:02. | :31:12. | |
about my interview with her was, in the space of a very short | :31:13. | :31:14. | |
interview, she mentioned She was really reluctant to use that | :31:15. | :31:17. | |
phrase last summer, wasn't she? And can we take from that fact | :31:18. | :31:21. | |
it's alive and well? Does it feel like it's something | :31:22. | :31:23. | |
tangible, Justin, to you? Or is it just a phrase | :31:24. | :31:26. | |
that means nothing? I've always felt it was a little bit | :31:27. | :31:29. | |
of PR spin, and not a lot The announcements on investment | :31:30. | :31:32. | |
this week have been repeated twice before, | :31:33. | :31:35. | |
so there is nothing new there. And particularly I am disappointed | :31:36. | :31:38. | |
for my constituency because we had a bid put in to regenerate | :31:39. | :31:47. | |
Ellsemere Port town centre, which appears to have been | :31:48. | :31:49. | |
completely kicked out. But we do know there will be highway | :31:50. | :31:51. | |
improvement in and Cheshire, funding for new bridges and cycle | :31:52. | :31:54. | |
routes, all around Well, it's no bad thing, but, | :31:55. | :31:56. | |
at the moment, my constituents can't get from one side | :31:57. | :32:02. | |
of the constituency to the other on public | :32:03. | :32:04. | |
transport after six o'clock. The whole area turned | :32:05. | :32:06. | |
into gridlock whenever there's an accident on the M56, | :32:07. | :32:08. | |
because the Government And when you have six times as much | :32:09. | :32:10. | |
investment per person in London as you get in the rest | :32:11. | :32:14. | |
of the country, I think we are miles away | :32:15. | :32:17. | |
from the Northern Powerhouse Well, let's have a look at how the | :32:18. | :32:19. | |
rest of the money was divided up. We found out that, in total, | :32:20. | :32:24. | |
there will be more than ?320 million for local enterprise partnerships | :32:25. | :32:27. | |
across the north-west. Greater Manchester will get almost | :32:28. | :32:29. | |
as much as Liverpool And Cumbria got just | :32:30. | :32:31. | |
less than ?13 million - less than a tenth of what it | :32:32. | :32:36. | |
had bid for. Do you think that Cumbria, | :32:37. | :32:41. | |
Cheshire and Lancashire are missing out because they've not reached | :32:42. | :32:44. | |
a devo deal? No, I think more importantly | :32:45. | :32:46. | |
it is about the quality of the leadership in | :32:47. | :32:48. | |
the local enterprise partnerships... A few of them have dynamic people | :32:49. | :32:50. | |
leading and driving them But to pick up just on one thing - | :32:51. | :32:54. | |
we saw in your package Blackpool For years, people in Blackpool have | :32:55. | :32:58. | |
been crying out for investment Conferences, as you know, | :32:59. | :33:03. | |
on the big scale, have gone People were marched up the hill | :33:04. | :33:07. | |
by Labour promising them a super-casino to be let | :33:08. | :33:13. | |
down at the last minute. This is now starting to deliver | :33:14. | :33:15. | |
to the tourist economy That's something this | :33:16. | :33:18. | |
Government has delivered But certainly come up in Cumbria, | :33:19. | :33:21. | |
they think that the LEP They think they are being punished | :33:22. | :33:25. | |
by the Government for not Well, on Monday I asked | :33:26. | :33:30. | |
a question on nuclear. I mean, nuclear fuels | :33:31. | :33:35. | |
in my constituency, nuclear power is hugely significant | :33:36. | :33:37. | |
for the north-west. Greg Clark, in his reply, started | :33:38. | :33:39. | |
to lay out the nuclear vision, which will impact on great tens | :33:40. | :33:42. | |
of thousands of jobs Nuclear power station in Cumbria - | :33:43. | :33:44. | |
21,000 jobs alone. The Prime Minister has made it | :33:45. | :33:50. | |
clear that she backs it. Now, that, to me, is | :33:51. | :33:53. | |
a Northern Powerhouse. And, Justin, when it comes to job | :33:54. | :33:56. | |
creation and when it comes to industry and when it comes | :33:57. | :33:58. | |
to unemployment, that is somewhere where public perception is much more | :33:59. | :34:01. | |
on the side of the public Government Well, I think there's a whole | :34:02. | :34:05. | |
debate that we need have We know that real earnings have not | :34:06. | :34:09. | |
risen for ten years, and there's millions of people | :34:10. | :34:13. | |
now in insecure And I think when we are looking | :34:14. | :34:15. | |
at investing in industry, we also need to look at what sort | :34:16. | :34:19. | |
of jobs we create. Are we creating sustainable, | :34:20. | :34:22. | |
long-term jobs that allow people to put down roots and invest | :34:23. | :34:24. | |
in their own futures as well? Do you feel there is that | :34:25. | :34:27. | |
pressure in Cheshire as well to form a devolution deal, | :34:28. | :34:29. | |
to have an elected mayor so that you can stand | :34:30. | :34:32. | |
as one voice and say, To put in bids the way that | :34:33. | :34:34. | |
Greater Manchester and Merseyside I think there is a very | :34:35. | :34:38. | |
clear message coming from the Government on that, | :34:39. | :34:41. | |
and I think it does, kind of, contradict a little bit | :34:42. | :34:44. | |
the whole devolution stance, in the sense that the Government | :34:45. | :34:46. | |
is saying, you can have devolution but it has to be | :34:47. | :34:49. | |
on these specific terms. That's not really listening to | :34:50. | :34:51. | |
what local communities are saying. Are they holding | :34:52. | :34:53. | |
communities to ransom? I was up in Wyre this | :34:54. | :34:55. | |
week, which is not far They have no interest in having | :34:56. | :34:58. | |
an elected mayor there, and yet they would be handed money, | :34:59. | :35:01. | |
literally, if they agree to it. No, I think that the town | :35:02. | :35:04. | |
of Wyre are right. And I think there is no such thing | :35:05. | :35:07. | |
as one size fits all. The principle of combined | :35:08. | :35:10. | |
authorities in many parts of the country is absolutely | :35:11. | :35:12. | |
the right thing to do, And I think, in my part | :35:13. | :35:15. | |
of the world as well, I'm beginning to question | :35:16. | :35:22. | |
what is in it for the people that I represent in a combined authority, | :35:23. | :35:26. | |
and I think we are going to see The Government have told us, though, | :35:27. | :35:29. | |
the Department for Communities and Local Government told me this | :35:30. | :35:34. | |
morning that you simply are in a position to make stronger | :35:35. | :35:36. | |
bids if you are part of a combined authority, and a unified voice is | :35:37. | :35:40. | |
better than a lot of single voices. I think some of this | :35:41. | :35:43. | |
is about Emperor's new clothes. But I think it's time that we got | :35:44. | :35:47. | |
solutions that fitted each area, Very quickly, Justin, | :35:48. | :35:52. | |
would you like to see Personally, I don't think it's | :35:53. | :35:55. | |
the right fit for Cheshire. There's lots of different towns | :35:56. | :36:03. | |
with different priorities. It's not like in Liverpool | :36:04. | :36:06. | |
and Manchester when you've got a very clear city | :36:07. | :36:09. | |
centre and hinterland. I would like to see more | :36:10. | :36:11. | |
devolution and more power is going to local communities, | :36:12. | :36:13. | |
but, personally, I'm not persuaded that a mayor is the right | :36:14. | :36:16. | |
vehicle to deliver that. Seven months ago, the murder | :36:17. | :36:18. | |
of Jo Cox shocked the country, and close to the Labour MP's heart | :36:19. | :36:24. | |
was what she called Before her death, the mum-of-two | :36:25. | :36:27. | |
from Yorkshire started a cross-party Now a Conservative from this side | :36:28. | :36:33. | |
of the Pennines is looking At the Seasons group in Preston, | :36:34. | :36:38. | |
older people come together to talk They come, they get a coffee, | :36:39. | :36:47. | |
and they sit and chat These gatherings are organised | :36:48. | :36:52. | |
by Longford community church, but anyone is welcome | :36:53. | :36:56. | |
whether they're religious or not. Figures suggest millions | :36:57. | :36:59. | |
of older people feel Before her murder, Jo Cox had begun | :37:00. | :37:07. | |
planning a Loneliness Commission She wanted it to be cross-party | :37:08. | :37:14. | |
and she wanted to involve lots of partner organisations | :37:15. | :37:18. | |
and have a year of looking at the issue of loneliness, | :37:19. | :37:21. | |
which is a really heading Now, Seema Kennedy and colleagues | :37:22. | :37:26. | |
are taking the mantle on, working with 13 charities to look | :37:27. | :37:37. | |
into loneliness and come up So, Beryl, what was it that brought | :37:38. | :37:39. | |
you to Seasons for the first time? Well, I'd heard about Seasons | :37:40. | :37:44. | |
because I was lonely ,and I was looking for a church | :37:45. | :37:46. | |
as well, but he came here because there were people | :37:47. | :37:49. | |
who were like-minded The highlight of many people's | :37:50. | :37:51. | |
day is the food that The Commission will also look at how | :37:52. | :37:54. | |
other age groups are affected. Key is a charity in Leyland that | :37:55. | :38:00. | |
helps vulnerable teenagers They can meet other young | :38:01. | :38:05. | |
people who have been through similar situations, | :38:06. | :38:09. | |
and we know that they can feel a real sense of | :38:10. | :38:11. | |
belonging to this place. What's your experiences | :38:12. | :38:13. | |
of coming down to Key Youth? Coming here, it just feels more | :38:14. | :38:17. | |
better than being sat at home. I will come here and drop | :38:18. | :38:22. | |
in to colour and talk What she said in her maiden speech, | :38:23. | :38:26. | |
and what we think about, there is more in common and we need | :38:27. | :38:32. | |
to love like Jo and have that great empathy for everybody | :38:33. | :38:36. | |
in our communities. The commission | :38:37. | :38:38. | |
will produce a manifesto and call on Government to take action, | :38:39. | :38:42. | |
but it's also hoped that highlighting the issue over the next | :38:43. | :38:46. | |
year will ensure individuals make And a successful commission | :38:47. | :38:49. | |
on loneliness that crosses party divides would be a great legacy | :38:50. | :38:57. | |
for someone who is obviously You know, Seema was working on this | :38:58. | :39:00. | |
with Jo at the time of Jo's death. And rather than let this drop, | :39:01. | :39:07. | |
you know, Seema feels that she owes this, and is working together | :39:08. | :39:11. | |
with Labour MPs such as Rachel Reeves in order | :39:12. | :39:14. | |
to really drive this, and make it happen as part | :39:15. | :39:16. | |
of the memory, just part And, you know, why this matters | :39:17. | :39:19. | |
is that there are thousands of people in all of our areas, | :39:20. | :39:25. | |
in my constituency, of all age It is people that suffer | :39:26. | :39:28. | |
from bereavement. They may have gone through a health | :39:29. | :39:32. | |
crisis, and they find themselves suddenly isolated, | :39:33. | :39:38. | |
and just needing a bit of support, And there is nothing | :39:39. | :39:42. | |
more cruel or wicked And, Justin, is it something you see | :39:43. | :39:46. | |
in your constituency as well, And it needs intervention | :39:47. | :39:50. | |
from the state? It does, and I think it needs | :39:51. | :39:54. | |
as all to have a look at ourselves There is in my constituency a great | :39:55. | :39:57. | |
organisation that has started having elderly people in who are isolated | :39:58. | :40:02. | |
and getting them a meal, getting them a bit of entertainment | :40:03. | :40:04. | |
and a bit of company, and that really can make such | :40:05. | :40:08. | |
a difference to people's lives. We should do an awful | :40:09. | :40:11. | |
lot more of it. It can be the tiniest | :40:12. | :40:13. | |
thing, that it? There is an organisation | :40:14. | :40:15. | |
called Just Good Friends. A nice plug for | :40:16. | :40:17. | |
Just Good Friends, there. A big thank you to | :40:18. | :40:21. | |
this week's guests, It's time to hand you back | :40:22. | :40:26. | |
to Andrew Neil in London. air-pollution. Thank you for being | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
here. Welcome back and let's get back | :40:32. | :40:37. | |
to Donald Trump's travel ban on refugees and citizens from seven | :40:38. | :40:41. | |
mainly Muslim countries. Earlier, the Labour leader, | :40:42. | :40:47. | |
Jeremy Corbyn, told ITV that a state visit by President Trump to the UK | :40:48. | :40:50. | |
should not go ahead I think it would be totally wrong | :40:51. | :41:03. | |
for him to be coming here while that situation is going on. He has to be | :41:04. | :41:08. | |
challenged on this. So until the ban is lifted, you don't think he should | :41:09. | :41:12. | |
come? I am not happy about him coming here until the ban is lifted. | :41:13. | :41:16. | |
Look at what is happening with those countries. What will be the long | :41:17. | :41:21. | |
term effect of this on the rest of the world? Is this state visit going | :41:22. | :41:26. | |
to become a matter of huge political debate in this country? It would be | :41:27. | :41:32. | |
anyway, but it is a temporary ban, so Jeremy Corbyn is on safe | :41:33. | :41:36. | |
territory. It will be over by April and he is not due to come until | :41:37. | :41:39. | |
summer. But there are three bands. There is the 90 day ban on people | :41:40. | :41:45. | |
coming from the southern countries. There is the 120 day ban on refugees | :41:46. | :41:49. | |
from anywhere in the world, and there is the indefinite ban on | :41:50. | :41:53. | |
Syrian refugees. So there may still be some bans in place. But bear in | :41:54. | :41:59. | |
mind the number of Syrian refugees and refugees from around the world | :42:00. | :42:02. | |
that President Obama took over his eight years. There were years when | :42:03. | :42:06. | |
it was not even up to 50 Syrian refugees that were taken since the | :42:07. | :42:12. | |
civil war has started. This is an ongoing American policy. 12,500 | :42:13. | :42:17. | |
Syrian refugees have come in the last year. Before that, it was a | :42:18. | :42:26. | |
hundred and sometimes under 50. But they are reasonable numbers now, | :42:27. | :42:29. | |
although not something America couldn't absorb. Donald Trump is | :42:30. | :42:35. | |
discovering that being a president is different from being a business | :42:36. | :42:39. | |
man. And Jeremy Corbyn has to learn the art of leadership, having been a | :42:40. | :42:42. | |
backbench MP, and has struggled to do it, as we are about to discuss | :42:43. | :42:48. | |
with article 50. With this, you have to dramatise the politics of this, | :42:49. | :42:52. | |
and this is what he has done with that statement. Most controversial | :42:53. | :42:56. | |
ever state visit now? I would imagine so. Even regardless of any | :42:57. | :43:00. | |
opposition from the opposition to trump's physical presence in the | :43:01. | :43:06. | |
streets, the presence of demonstrators will be an | :43:07. | :43:11. | |
international new story. If trump's demands for the details of the visit | :43:12. | :43:15. | |
are quite as extreme and as picky as some of the Sunday papers have | :43:16. | :43:18. | |
suggested, that could also be the source of controversy. What do you | :43:19. | :43:22. | |
have in mind? Isn't he anxious that only certain members of the Royal | :43:23. | :43:27. | |
Family turn up? He doesn't want a one-on-one with Prince Charles. Who | :43:28. | :43:33. | |
would, though! Some people may be sympathetic on that. It is the one | :43:34. | :43:40. | |
subject where he is in line with British opinion. Playing golf in | :43:41. | :43:44. | |
front of the Queen may be a higher priority. We have to be realistic. | :43:45. | :43:48. | |
Given the other people from around the world that the Queen has played | :43:49. | :43:51. | |
host to, like the Chinese president and Saudi kings and the like, we | :43:52. | :43:55. | |
have had a lot worse come to visit than Donald Trump. Brexit - how | :43:56. | :44:01. | |
serious our neighbour's problems on this? Very serious, but they often | :44:02. | :44:05. | |
are with Europe. Labour were splits when we joined in the 70s, and still | :44:06. | :44:12. | |
won general elections, in 1974 and 1975. There were all over the place | :44:13. | :44:15. | |
in terms of the single currency. Blair said one thing one day and the | :44:16. | :44:18. | |
opposite the next day. Brown did the same. | :44:19. | :44:25. | |
Brown usually set the opposite of what Blair said! They won landslide | :44:26. | :44:34. | |
because they have the political skills to put all of the pressure on | :44:35. | :44:37. | |
the major government, even though their position on the single | :44:38. | :44:42. | |
currency was the same as major's. It is about with Europe the art of | :44:43. | :44:47. | |
leadership. You have to be a political conjuror, you have to | :44:48. | :44:50. | |
dissemble authoritative leak when you lead a divided party over | :44:51. | :44:55. | |
Europe, and Jeremy Corbyn to his personal credit cannot dissemble, | :44:56. | :44:59. | |
but he's not an individual person on this. He's leading a split party in | :45:00. | :45:04. | |
danger of falling apart, and you need the skills of a political | :45:05. | :45:10. | |
conjurer. Clearly self-evidently he's not displaying it because we | :45:11. | :45:13. | |
are talking about the chaotic split which will manifest itself in that | :45:14. | :45:17. | |
vote on Article 50. Labour and the SNP and the Lib Dems too I would | :45:18. | :45:22. | |
have thought will all put amendments down to the short Article 50 piece | :45:23. | :45:26. | |
of legislation. Do they have any chance of succeeding? No substantial | :45:27. | :45:33. | |
world is changing amendments. I don't think Theresa May has much to | :45:34. | :45:37. | |
worry about actually. I think if anything the reason she's pushed the | :45:38. | :45:41. | |
legal appeal is that it helps her to have a big chunk of the media and a | :45:42. | :45:45. | |
big chunk of public opinion worrying that the popular will of last year | :45:46. | :45:51. | |
is in danger of being overturned and so even if it was a completely | :45:52. | :45:54. | |
hopeless legal appeal, it generated headlines for a week that as an | :45:55. | :45:59. | |
incumbent Prime Minister trying to execute believe vote suits you | :46:00. | :46:03. | |
politically. I think it is a much bigger problem for Labour, we've | :46:04. | :46:07. | |
already seen some Shadow Cabinet issues in the previous week. You | :46:08. | :46:12. | |
have got to remember it's not just a majority of Labour MPs that want to | :46:13. | :46:16. | |
stay in the European Union, but a majority of Labour constituencies, | :46:17. | :46:22. | |
and a majority of labour macro voters wanted to stay as well so we | :46:23. | :46:26. | |
have three lines of division. One amendment that might get through if | :46:27. | :46:30. | |
it was called, and it is in the hands of the Deputy speaker who will | :46:31. | :46:33. | |
be chairing these debates, and that will be an amendment that said | :46:34. | :46:38. | |
regardless of how the Europeans treat our citizens in Europe, all EU | :46:39. | :46:44. | |
citizens here will be afforded full rights to remain. That might get | :46:45. | :46:50. | |
through. It may indeed and lots of backbench MPs would backpack. We all | :46:51. | :46:56. | |
know there will not be mass deportations, it is not legal, it | :46:57. | :47:01. | |
won't happen, it is simply a negotiating tactic. I agree with | :47:02. | :47:05. | |
those who say you shouldn't be using people as a negotiating tactic, but | :47:06. | :47:09. | |
the reality as it is the EU leaders that are doing that because it's | :47:10. | :47:14. | |
already been offered. The remain as should be attacking the EU | :47:15. | :47:18. | |
governments for not offering that in return. Article 50 is the easy bit | :47:19. | :47:23. | |
for her. I agree with other members of the panel that she will get it | :47:24. | :47:26. | |
through and the court case almost helps her by getting an easy journey | :47:27. | :47:30. | |
through Parliament, then it gets really difficult. All of this has | :47:31. | :47:35. | |
been a preamble and once she begins that nightmarish negotiation, there | :47:36. | :47:41. | |
will be opportunities for a smart opposition to make quite a lot of | :47:42. | :47:47. | |
the turmoil to come. Whether Labour are capable of that, let's wait and | :47:48. | :47:53. | |
see. The divisions in Labour are nightmarish for them but by no means | :47:54. | :47:57. | |
unprecedented. Arguably it was much more complicated in the early 1970s | :47:58. | :48:02. | |
when you had Titans on either side, big ex-cabinet ministers... Tony | :48:03. | :48:10. | |
Benn... Michael Foot, they were all at it. The fundamental issue of in | :48:11. | :48:16. | |
or out, and they won two elections, so you have got to be really clever. | :48:17. | :48:22. | |
But also how money more Labour MPs will resign. We shall find out this | :48:23. | :48:24. | |
week. The Daily Politics is back | :48:25. | :48:26. | |
tomorrow at midday and all I'll be back here | :48:27. | :48:29. | |
on BBC one next week. Remember - if it's Sunday, | :48:30. | :48:33. | |
it's the Sunday Politics. | :48:34. | :48:39. |