29/01/2017 Sunday Politics North West

Donald Trump's travel ban on refugees and citizens of seven

mainly Muslim countries sparks protests at several US airports.

And in the north-west: Is the Northern Powerhouse picking up pace?

Plus, the Lancashire MP taking the lead on loneliness,

part of the legacy of the late Jo Cox.

Should she have spoken out more strongly?

We'll ask former Ukip leader and Trump confidant Nigel Farage

what he makes of the travel ban and the Prime Minister's

In London this week, the mayor, Sadiq Khan,

has been coming under pressure to explain his fares freeze

and why it doesn't apply to everybody.

And with me, the best and brightest political

panel in the business - Steve Richards, Julia

They'll be tweeting throughout the programme.

It was soon after Theresa May left the White House on Friday that

Donald Trump signed the executive order banning citizens from seven

President Trump's 90-day ban covers Iran, Iraq,

Libya, Somalia, Sudan, Yemen and Syria, from

where refugees are banned from until further notice.

Donald Trump's executive order also imposes a complete ban

on all refugees coming to the US for the next 120 days.

Mr Trump said that the ban would keep radical Islamic terrorists out

But the ban has sparked protests across the US,

as people affected and already in the air were detained

US laws have begun legal action to challenge the ban, which many

At a press conference in Ankara, Turkey, Theresa May was asked

about the refugee ban three times before giving this response...

Well, the United States is responsible for the United States'

The United Kingdom is responsible for the United Kingdom's policy

on refugees, and our policy on refugees is to have a number

of voluntary schemes to bring Syrian refugees into the country.

Downing Street later issued a statement saying:

This morning, the Treasury Minister, David Gauke, was asked why

Theresa May had refused to condemn the travel ban at yesterday's

The Prime Minister is not a shoot-from-the-hip

She wants to see the evidence, she wants

to understand precisely what the implications are.

She'd been in a series of very lengthy meetings with

President Erdogan, and she's someone who wants to see the briefing and

understand it, and then will respond to that.

I think there are times where, you know, there's always

pressure to respond within a news cycle and so on.

The important thing is, we are saying we disagree with it

We're joined now from North London by the Conservative

Should the Government in general and Theresa May in particular be more

vocal in their criticism of Donald Trump's travel bans? Well, as David

just said, it is obviously right that Theresa has now said this is an

appropriate and not something we agree with in our Government, but I

wish she had said something at the time, not least because it affects

our own citizens. One of our own MPs, Nadhim, for example, because it

is also a global crisis. She had clearly built an excellent with

Donald Trump -- she had built an excellent relationship with him, but

she could have been firmer. Mrs May hasn't said any word of criticism

about the travel bans. She refused to say anything three times in

Ankara, and it is merely an anonymous Downing Street

spokesperson that has issued the subsequent mild criticism. We have

not heard from the Prime Minister at all on this matter in terms of

criticism. No, but the spokesperson will be speaking with her blessing,

so it is clearly something she has acknowledged. As I said before, I

wish she had said something at the time. The global climate at the

moment is delicate and we need our leaders to work together to address

things like the refugee crisis. Potentially, this plays into the

hands of Daesh. It is absolutely not the right message. What would you

like the Prime Minister to say? As with any new relationship, it is

about testing the boundaries. They had clearly got on well, so she

should have felt braver to say something there and then. I would

have preferred her to say, for example, I need to talk to Donald

Trump about this. It is not something I support and I want to

understand why because I believe there is a better way to deal with

the terrorist threat. I would have liked her to suggest that she would

engage with him to do that. The president has instituted a 90 day

temporary ban on people coming from seven mainly Muslim majority

population countries. The seven were on President Obama's list of the

biggest terrorist threats to the United States. Mr Trump wants this

temporary ban until he puts tougher vetting procedures in place. What is

wrong with that? Because it appeared to me that it wasn't thought through

and it was affecting ordinary citizens and some British citizens.

It can't be right that a president in that position of power can

arbitrarily come up with executive powers like that. It has already

been challenged by his own courts. So it is not the considered approach

I want to see in a global leader. Who do you believe will be hurt by

this, given that there can be exceptions on a case-by-case basis?

I think potentially, our global reputation is going to be hurt by

this. I have been to the refugee camps in Europe myself. There are

desperate people trying to free persecution who will be hurt by

this. We are trying to heal the wounds in this country not only

because of Brexit. This is a time of coming together, not about saying it

is located discriminatory against race and religion in this way. Do

you believe that Mr Trump's state visit should go ahead? Well, he is

the leader of America, so it does need to go ahead and we need to work

with him. I believe Theresa has started in a positive manner was

that she just needs to continue in that vein. If he comes to our

country, he needs to respect the way we feel about things. But yes, he is

the president, so he does need to come to the UK. There is some debate

within Westminster as to where it is appropriate for him to speak to MPs,

but it is right that he comes. But if he does come on a state visit,

should he be granted what this country has always thought of as a

great honour, which is a joint address to both Houses of

Parliament? I haven't been an MP long enough to understand the

protocol of where is the right location for him to do that, but I

believe in the past, it has been the greatest leaders, when they have

achieved great things globally, it is Westminster Hall. But there are a

number of MPs saying that is not the most appropriate place and I am

inclined to agree. You don't think he should be accorded the privilege

of speaking to a joint session of Parliament? I think there are places

where he can do that, but Westminster Hall is not yet the

right place. Thank you for joining us.

Steve, within 24 hours, we have seen the difficulty of becoming Donald

Trump's best friend. On the one hand, it could have huge advantages,

particularly for a Brexit Britain. On the other hand, if you are going

to be his best friend, you don't have to give a running commentary on

every major thing he does. Yeah. We have learned a bit about Theresa

May, that when she has to produce a set piece speech which she has time

to prepare, she can get it totally right and sometimes more than right.

When she is faced with a fast-moving story, she is leaden footed and

can't think quickly on her feet. We know, did she regret not saying

more? Evidently she did, because we got a statement from the Downing

Street spokesperson saying more. So she can't think quickly. She's going

to have to think very quickly in response to some of the things he's

going to be doing, because she will be asked about it all the time. It

does highlight the wider danger that the assumption that the special

relationship is always a safe and fertile place to be has been proven

wrong before and I think it will be proven wrong big-time in this case.

You're shaking your head. I don't see why we are responsible for

American domestic policy. I am as appalled as the next person by what

Donald Trump has done. He said he was going to do this, which was why

I did not want Americans to vote for him. In fact, what he has

implemented is much less than what he said he would do when he was

campaigning. I have always felt that the campaigning Trump was the real

Trump. But what he has done is actually constitutional. He has the

executive power to issue this order. It is within the rules in terms of a

class of aliens deemed to be a risk to the United States. It is a 90 day

limited ban. The last president who did this was a Democrat president,

President Carter. He did it in the aftermath of the Iranian crisis.

Well, given the spate of terror attacks on American territory in

recent years, you could argue that he meant well. I don't agree with

Donald Trump. But have people from these countries that he has banned

been involved in terrorist attacks? That is the absurdity. He has not

included Egypt or Pakistan. But I don't remove everyone getting in

such a state about President Carter. The reality is that it is a legal

thing for him to do. I don't like it. But it is not my territory. It

is illegal, because they have been given a right to remain by a judge

in Brooklyn and another judging Alexandra. That is a different issue

for people who have already gone through the vetting. I don't agree

with this. However, I don't think it's reasonable to say that Theresa

May, because she wants to do a deal with Donald Trump, I don't give is

reasonable to say she have to agree with each of his policies. It is

nonsense. But the issue, Janan, is not whether she needs to agree with

him. The question is that she will be questioned about him all the time

now. And although these are matters of domestic policy, the refugee

policy is international. They speak to issues that affect Britain as

well, and I would suggest that she will not get away with this

anonymous statement from Downing Street. People will demand a she

says something on the record. She would get away with it indefinitely.

These situations will recur every time Donald Trump says or does

something contentious. She will be pressed to this associate her

administration from his. She will probably be in a better logistical

situation to do so. She has spent a big chunk of the past 72 hours in

the air. She flew from Washington to Ankara, than from Ankara to London.

We don't have Air Force One, we don't have those frictionless

communications with the ground. She would have been incommunicado for

large periods of time when this story was breaking. That doesn't

excuse the stiff response when she landed and issued a statement via

Downing Street. But during that delay, she did have a plausible

excuse. She has also got a much more tricky geopolitical situation than

many other world leaders. She has to strike a favourable trade deal with

the new US president. It is all very well people saying Justin Trudeau of

Canada was much more vociferous in his criticism of Donald Trump. He is

already in Nafta, he is not striking a new deal. For how long, we don't

know. Exactly, he's trying to stay in Nafta, but he is in a less tricky

situation than she is. Now, Theresa May's was the first

foreign leader to meet President Trump and the visit

was seen as quite a coup for the Prime Minister,

keen for a new trading relationship with the United States

in the wake of Brexit. The Prime Minister congratulated

the new US President for his "stunning election victory"

but might not have intended to be pictured walking

through the White House with him That picture of Donald Trump helping

Theresa May down the steps through the White House colonnade

will be the enduring image Mrs May said the President

told her he was "100% behind Nato". And for her part, the Prime Minister

said she would work hard to make sure other Nato countries

increased their defence spending It's been announced

that there will be a new trade negotiation agreement,

with high-level talks The hope is that this will lead

to a new trade deal between the two countries as soon as

Britain leaves the EU. Mr Trump said he believed "Brexit's

going to be a wonderful thing". On Russia, Theresa May made clear

to Donald Trump her continued

backing for sanctions. And following the controversy over

the President's support for torture, Mr Trump said he would defer

to his Secretary of Defense, General James Mattis, who argues

that the practice doesn't work. And I'm joined now by the former

Ukip leader, Nigel Farage. Do you agree with Mr Trump's

decision to ban Syrian refugees indefinitely from entering the

United States? I agree with the concept of democracy, a point which

appears to be missed by almost all commentators including the BBC. He

was elected to get tough and say he would do everything in his power to

protect America from infiltration by ISIS terrorists. There are seven

countries on that list. He's entitled to do this. I didn't ask if

he was entitled, I asked if agree with it. I do, because if you just

look at what's happening in France and Germany, if you look at Angela

Merkel's policy which was to allow virtually anyone in from anywhere,

look what it led to. You said in 2013 there's a responsibility on all

of us in the free west to help some of those people fleeing Syria

literally in fear of their lives. That's the Christian community in

virtually all of those country, it is almost too late because many have

been wiped out but if you are looking for a genuine definition of

a refugee, going back to 1951, it is someone in direct fear of

persecution of their life because of their race, religion or beliefs. But

you didn't talk about only Christians, and in January 2014 you

said, I seem to recall it was Ukip who started the debate on allowing

Syrian refugees, you seem to be in favour of allowing proper refugees

into this country. If they can be defined. Mr Trump won't let any in.

He is running American policy, not British policy. Since I made those

comments, we have had the Angela Merkel madness and I think Trump's

policy in many ways has been shaped by what Angela Merkel did. He is

fully entitled to do this, and as far as we are concerned in this

country, I would like to see extreme vetting. Since 9/11 can you name any

terrorist event in the United States that has involved refugees that have

been allowed into the country? No, in fact the terrorist events have

been US citizens radicalised. When you have a problem already, why

would you wish to add to it? I would remind you that of the eight people

that committed those atrocities in Paris, five of them had got into

Europe posing as refugees so there is an issue here. But perhaps not

for America because it has the most rigorous and lengthy screening

process in the world, especially for Syrians. You have to register with

the UN agency for refugees, which then recommend certain names to

America, they then go through biometric screening, database

screening, intelligent screenings, including four separate intelligence

agencies screening you. How more rigorous would you want it to be? It

is much more rigorous than we are or the rest of Europe. This is why we

have elections, so voters can make choices and they voted for Donald

Trump to become president and he said he would put bans in place and

then move towards extreme vetting. As far as the Syrians are concerned

he's made that decision but that's what he was voted in fourth. Since

you know him, you have met him, you are confident of his, I'm testing

you on the logic of it. Not that he's democratically elected, I'm not

asking about that, I'm trying to get the case, particularly since if you

take the seven countries of which the ban applies for 19 days, again,

of these seven countries, its citizens have not been involved in

terrorist attacks in the United States. It would be a mistake to say

it is just Muslim countries because the biggest Muslim countries in the

world have not been included in this. The point is they have made

this assessment, they bought themselves 90 days to think about

the policy. This is exactly what Trump's voters would have wanted him

to do. You said the President's rhetoric on immigrants made even you

feel very uncomfortable. Because he started by saying there was a total

ban, then amended it to say there would be vetting. My guess is that

what he will do is try to genuinely help Syrian people and he will be

talking about the creation of some safe zones. Let's see. He hasn't. We

will see. I suspect something like that is coming down the trap. What

advice did you give to the president and his advisers ahead of Theresa

May's visit? That I wanted us to talk about trade and to give the

Prime Minister the impression that actually... When she has been

surrounded by her whole career by civil servants and politicians who

say that everything takes five years or seven years or ten years, to make

it clear to the Prime Minister that if there is will, these things can

be done quickly. Isn't there a danger of a British Prime Minister

who has to deal with the president of the United States, to Ally

herself so closely with such an unpredictable, controversial

president, banning Muslims in certain ways and refugees, building

a war with Mexico, threatening trade was with other countries, thinking

of ending sanctions against Russia? I missing something here, what is

controversial about defending the Mexican border? Bill Clinton spoke

in tough terms, George Bush built six miles of fence, and because it

is Donald Trump there is uproar. So you think there is no risk of the

British by Minister being the best friend of this type of president? I

think there is no risk in putting together a trade deal and no risk in

her being the bridge between America and the rest of Nato to say to Nato

members if you don't pay your 2% he is serious so on those things there

is no risk at all. It was clear from her Lancaster house speech that the

Brexiteers in the Government had won pretty much every argument in terms

of negotiations to come out. What you want from her? She was very good

as Home Secretary, Tory party conferences, the Tory press saying

this was the new Thatcher and she failed. She even failed to control

immigration from outside the European Union so yes, it was a good

speech and for many on the Eurosceptic side of the argument, I

could scarcely believe that a British Prime Minister was saying

things which I had been roundly abused and vilified for. But I have

a feeling we may be in for a very frustrating 2017. The mood as I can

see it in Brussels is that negotiating with Britain is not a

priority, they are far more worried about Dutch elections, French

elections, German elections and possibly even Italian elections. I

worry that by the end of this year we may not have made much progress

and that's why the Trump visit suddenly things brings into focus.

What if by the middle of June, for argument 's sake, the Americans say

OK we reached this position with the British, compromised on the tough

stuff, food standards and things like that, we are ready to sign a

deal now, and Theresa May is to say actually Mr Juncker says I cannot

sign this until we leave. What will they do? They cannot throw us out,

we are living anyway. But everybody agrees you can talk about the deal,

maybe even do the heads of agreement but you cannot sign a treaty until

we have left the EU. Let me predict that at the end of this year we will

find a European Union who frankly don't want to talk to us and

countries around the world that want to get on and do things and that

will be the big tension for Mrs May over the course of this year. If the

Prime Minister is giving you everything you want on Brexit, you

agree that she's trying to get from your point of view the right things.

If she delivers on that and get Brexit on the terms of which you

approve, what's the point of Ukip? You could argue that about any

political party. If we have achieved the goal that we set out to achieve,

there are right now out there 4 million people who are Ukip

loyalists. They are delighted that by voting Ukip we got a referendum,

they will be even happier if they seek us leave the European Union and

I think there is still a gap in British politics for a party that

says it as it sees it, is not afraid by political correctness and is seen

to be on the side of the little people, and that's why, with the

Labour Party is fundamentally split, and it really is totally split over

this European question, I think Ukip is in good shape. That proposition

will be put to test at the Stoke Central by-election, one of Ukip's

best prospects in the country. Some people call it the capital of

Brexit. Labour is in chaos over Article 50, is picked a candidate to

fight Stoke Central who has described Brexit is a pile of notes.

If your successor, Paul Nuttall, cannot win the Stoke by-election,

there's not much hope for you, is there? I think he will. I've always

been told don't make predictions but I think he will win. If you doesn't

it will be tough, we will still have our 4 million loyalists, but if it

does we can actually see Labour are beatable in their heartlands and

Ukip will be off to the second big stage. Nigel Farage, thank you for

being with us. It's just gone 11.25,

you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers

in Scotland, who leave us now Coming up here in 15 minutes, I'll

be talking to our political panel. The Lancashire MP taking a lead

on loneliness and the legacy Seema Kennedy on that

campaign a little later. But here in this studio

we welcome Justin Madders, the Labour MP for Ellesmere Port

and Neston, and Mark Menzies, We start with Brexit and this week's

ruling that Parliament will vote on whether we begin

the exit process. Here are a couple of MPs

who've said they will vote The Government are trying

to persuade the public they can It is all going to end in tears

in one way or another unless people reflect positively,

and with clarity, on the outcome when negotiations are complete,

and that requires, I think, Up until now, I have not heard

any convincing argument from the Government about the kind

of negotiation that they want to enter into, which will look

after the people of So, no surprises on the Lib Dem

stance - they want a public vote Much trickier for Labour

MPs and Conservative, whose constituents voted to remain

in the European Union, Justin, is Jeremy Corbyn right

to impose a three-line whip on this, knowing there will be a big crisis

of conscience for lots of his MPs? Well, he is the leader so he has got

to lead on these things, and I think sometimes people

are a bit unfair on him So, I think the shoe's

on the other foot. The criticism of him on this,

I think, is a bit misplaced. But I do appreciate that MPs

who are representing constituencies who heavily voted for Remain

are going to be put in a very difficult position,

and they have got to listen to what the constituents say,

as well as the wider electorate. Jeff Smith and Ann Coffey have both

declared that they will vote Do you think we are likely

to see more rebellion? I think, certainly, we have got

to look at what the votes That is to try to predict

where people are going to vote, and obviously Jeff's example, 76%

of his constituents voted Remain, and I don't think anyone can

argue that he is not reflecting the wishes of his own

individual constituents. But I think the majority of Labour

MPs will vote to trigger Article 50. Has the Prime Minister had

to compromise twice this week, once conceding to the House when it

comes to voting on triggering, and secondly she has said

she will reveal her hand when it She did not want to do

either of those things. Well, compromise is

a word that you use. I would actually say

"setting out a clear position". So, you know, people have been

asking for some clarity The Prime Minister,

not just on the issue of the White Paper this week,

but more importantly in the speech that she made the previous week,

made it very, very clear on the key points were that she

would be entering in And one of the principal thinks

that people in the north-west is one of the principal things

that the Prime Minister's concerned about, is ensuring

that there is no free movement of people in the way

that we had in the past, and also ensuring that we have got

as much access for British goods and services, not just in Europe

but across the globe. Well, we learnt a little bit this

week in that respect. One man who has an unenviable task

over the next couple of years is Lindsay Hoyle,

the Deputy Speaker of the House. He is going to have to go

through all of those amendments This is going to be an incredibly

messy divorce, isn't it? Do you think the two-year timetable

for agreeing on a deal, I suppose one of the criticisms

we can marvel at Theresa May is that she could have got

on with this process a little bit earlier,

had she fought the court case. That has been a complete

waste of time and money, because every legal opinion

was clear that she was not So we have lost considerable time,

but we could have been And I think it is very important,

from my constituents' perspective, that the rights that we have got

from Europe, particularly in terms of employment protection,

are retained, and of course for the manufacturing industry

in my area that we have as good access as possible

to the free market. And that means no

tariffs, if possible. Prime Minister back in the autumn

made it very clear that Article 50 Article 50 will be

triggered in March. It looks set to the timetable

for now, but I am sure we will be The cabinet came to

the north-west this week. With an industry-themed 60

Seconds, here's Carol Lowe. From Westminster to Warrington -

the Prime Minister brought the top table of Government

to the north-west to unveil her industrial strategy and commitment

to the local economy. Investment in the Northern

Powerhouse that will bring jobs - that's part of our industrial

strategy, which is about ensuring the economy is working

across the whole country. Later in the week, the Minister

in charge of delivering the Northern Powerhouse came

to Ellesmere Port to open Also in the money was Blackpool,

which is hoping to bring back party conferences with ?15 million

of Government funding I hope it will start to make many,

many people in Blackpool feel that Labour's Steve Rotheram

launched his campaign for metro mayor of the Liverpool City region

with a pledge to improve apprenticeships and fight

for more devolved powers. And one of the region's most

prestigious manufacturers is celebrating a record year -

there were bumper sales So, I met the Prime Minister on

Monday when she was in Warrington. The thing that stood out

about my interview with her was, in the space of a very short

interview, she mentioned She was really reluctant to use that

phrase last summer, wasn't she? And can we take from that fact

it's alive and well? Does it feel like it's something

tangible, Justin, to you? Or is it just a phrase

that means nothing? I've always felt it was a little bit

of PR spin, and not a lot The announcements on investment

this week have been repeated twice before,

so there is nothing new there. And particularly I am disappointed

for my constituency because we had a bid put in to regenerate

Ellsemere Port town centre, which appears to have been

completely kicked out. But we do know there will be highway

improvement in and Cheshire, funding for new bridges and cycle

routes, all around Well, it's no bad thing, but,

at the moment, my constituents can't get from one side

of the constituency to the other on public

transport after six o'clock. The whole area turned

into gridlock whenever there's an accident on the M56,

because the Government And when you have six times as much

investment per person in London as you get in the rest

of the country, I think we are miles away

from the Northern Powerhouse Well, let's have a look at how the

rest of the money was divided up. We found out that, in total,

there will be more than ?320 million for local enterprise partnerships

across the north-west. Greater Manchester will get almost

as much as Liverpool And Cumbria got just

less than ?13 million - less than a tenth of what it

had bid for. Do you think that Cumbria,

Cheshire and Lancashire are missing out because they've not reached

a devo deal? No, I think more importantly

it is about the quality of the leadership in

the local enterprise partnerships... A few of them have dynamic people

leading and driving them But to pick up just on one thing -

we saw in your package Blackpool For years, people in Blackpool have

been crying out for investment Conferences, as you know,

on the big scale, have gone People were marched up the hill

by Labour promising them a super-casino to be let

down at the last minute. This is now starting to deliver

to the tourist economy That's something this

Government has delivered But certainly come up in Cumbria,

they think that the LEP They think they are being punished

by the Government for not Well, on Monday I asked

a question on nuclear. I mean, nuclear fuels

in my constituency, nuclear power is hugely significant

for the north-west. Greg Clark, in his reply, started

to lay out the nuclear vision, which will impact on great tens

of thousands of jobs Nuclear power station in Cumbria -

21,000 jobs alone. The Prime Minister has made it

clear that she backs it. Now, that, to me, is

a Northern Powerhouse. And, Justin, when it comes to job

creation and when it comes to industry and when it comes

to unemployment, that is somewhere where public perception is much more

on the side of the public Government Well, I think there's a whole

debate that we need have We know that real earnings have not

risen for ten years, and there's millions of people

now in insecure And I think when we are looking

at investing in industry, we also need to look at what sort

of jobs we create. Are we creating sustainable,

long-term jobs that allow people to put down roots and invest

in their own futures as well? Do you feel there is that

pressure in Cheshire as well to form a devolution deal,

to have an elected mayor so that you can stand

as one voice and say, To put in bids the way that

Greater Manchester and Merseyside I think there is a very

clear message coming from the Government on that,

and I think it does, kind of, contradict a little bit

the whole devolution stance, in the sense that the Government

is saying, you can have devolution but it has to be

on these specific terms. That's not really listening to

what local communities are saying. Are they holding

communities to ransom? I was up in Wyre this

week, which is not far They have no interest in having

an elected mayor there, and yet they would be handed money,

literally, if they agree to it. No, I think that the town

of Wyre are right. And I think there is no such thing

as one size fits all. The principle of combined

authorities in many parts of the country is absolutely

the right thing to do, And I think, in my part

of the world as well, I'm beginning to question

what is in it for the people that I represent in a combined authority,

and I think we are going to see The Government have told us, though,

the Department for Communities and Local Government told me this

morning that you simply are in a position to make stronger

bids if you are part of a combined authority, and a unified voice is

better than a lot of single voices. I think some of this

is about Emperor's new clothes. But I think it's time that we got

solutions that fitted each area, Very quickly, Justin,

would you like to see Personally, I don't think it's

the right fit for Cheshire. There's lots of different towns

with different priorities. It's not like in Liverpool

and Manchester when you've got a very clear city

centre and hinterland. I would like to see more

devolution and more power is going to local communities,

but, personally, I'm not persuaded that a mayor is the right

vehicle to deliver that. Seven months ago, the murder

of Jo Cox shocked the country, and close to the Labour MP's heart

was what she called Before her death, the mum-of-two

from Yorkshire started a cross-party Now a Conservative from this side

of the Pennines is looking At the Seasons group in Preston,

older people come together to talk They come, they get a coffee,

and they sit and chat These gatherings are organised

by Longford community church, but anyone is welcome

whether they're religious or not. Figures suggest millions

of older people feel Before her murder, Jo Cox had begun

planning a Loneliness Commission She wanted it to be cross-party

and she wanted to involve lots of partner organisations

and have a year of looking at the issue of loneliness,

which is a really heading Now, Seema Kennedy and colleagues

are taking the mantle on, working with 13 charities to look

into loneliness and come up So, Beryl, what was it that brought

you to Seasons for the first time? Well, I'd heard about Seasons

because I was lonely ,and I was looking for a church

as well, but he came here because there were people

who were like-minded The highlight of many people's

day is the food that The Commission will also look at how

other age groups are affected. Key is a charity in Leyland that

helps vulnerable teenagers They can meet other young

people who have been through similar situations,

and we know that they can feel a real sense of

belonging to this place. What's your experiences

of coming down to Key Youth? Coming here, it just feels more

better than being sat at home. I will come here and drop

in to colour and talk What she said in her maiden speech,

and what we think about, there is more in common and we need

to love like Jo and have that great empathy for everybody

in our communities. The commission

will produce a manifesto and call on Government to take action,

but it's also hoped that highlighting the issue over the next

year will ensure individuals make And a successful commission

on loneliness that crosses party divides would be a great legacy

for someone who is obviously You know, Seema was working on this

with Jo at the time of Jo's death. And rather than let this drop,

you know, Seema feels that she owes this, and is working together

with Labour MPs such as Rachel Reeves in order

to really drive this, and make it happen as part

of the memory, just part And, you know, why this matters

is that there are thousands of people in all of our areas,

in my constituency, of all age It is people that suffer

from bereavement. They may have gone through a health

crisis, and they find themselves suddenly isolated,

and just needing a bit of support, And there is nothing

more cruel or wicked And, Justin, is it something you see

in your constituency as well, And it needs intervention

from the state? It does, and I think it needs

as all to have a look at ourselves There is in my constituency a great

organisation that has started having elderly people in who are isolated

and getting them a meal, getting them a bit of entertainment

and a bit of company, and that really can make such

a difference to people's lives. We should do an awful

lot more of it. It can be the tiniest

thing, that it? There is an organisation

called Just Good Friends. A nice plug for

Just Good Friends, there. A big thank you to

this week's guests, It's time to hand you back

to Andrew Neil in London. air-pollution. Thank you for being

here. Welcome back and let's get back

to Donald Trump's travel ban on refugees and citizens from seven

mainly Muslim countries. Earlier, the Labour leader,

Jeremy Corbyn, told ITV that a state visit by President Trump to the UK

should not go ahead I think it would be totally wrong

for him to be coming here while that situation is going on. He has to be

challenged on this. So until the ban is lifted, you don't think he should

come? I am not happy about him coming here until the ban is lifted.

Look at what is happening with those countries. What will be the long

term effect of this on the rest of the world? Is this state visit going

to become a matter of huge political debate in this country? It would be

anyway, but it is a temporary ban, so Jeremy Corbyn is on safe

territory. It will be over by April and he is not due to come until

summer. But there are three bands. There is the 90 day ban on people

coming from the southern countries. There is the 120 day ban on refugees

from anywhere in the world, and there is the indefinite ban on

Syrian refugees. So there may still be some bans in place. But bear in

mind the number of Syrian refugees and refugees from around the world

that President Obama took over his eight years. There were years when

it was not even up to 50 Syrian refugees that were taken since the

civil war has started. This is an ongoing American policy. 12,500

Syrian refugees have come in the last year. Before that, it was a

hundred and sometimes under 50. But they are reasonable numbers now,

although not something America couldn't absorb. Donald Trump is

discovering that being a president is different from being a business

man. And Jeremy Corbyn has to learn the art of leadership, having been a

backbench MP, and has struggled to do it, as we are about to discuss

with article 50. With this, you have to dramatise the politics of this,

and this is what he has done with that statement. Most controversial

ever state visit now? I would imagine so. Even regardless of any

opposition from the opposition to trump's physical presence in the

streets, the presence of demonstrators will be an

international new story. If trump's demands for the details of the visit

are quite as extreme and as picky as some of the Sunday papers have

suggested, that could also be the source of controversy. What do you

have in mind? Isn't he anxious that only certain members of the Royal

Family turn up? He doesn't want a one-on-one with Prince Charles. Who

would, though! Some people may be sympathetic on that. It is the one

subject where he is in line with British opinion. Playing golf in

front of the Queen may be a higher priority. We have to be realistic.

Given the other people from around the world that the Queen has played

host to, like the Chinese president and Saudi kings and the like, we

have had a lot worse come to visit than Donald Trump. Brexit - how

serious our neighbour's problems on this? Very serious, but they often

are with Europe. Labour were splits when we joined in the 70s, and still

won general elections, in 1974 and 1975. There were all over the place

in terms of the single currency. Blair said one thing one day and the

opposite the next day. Brown did the same.

Brown usually set the opposite of what Blair said! They won landslide

because they have the political skills to put all of the pressure on

the major government, even though their position on the single

currency was the same as major's. It is about with Europe the art of

leadership. You have to be a political conjuror, you have to

dissemble authoritative leak when you lead a divided party over

Europe, and Jeremy Corbyn to his personal credit cannot dissemble,

but he's not an individual person on this. He's leading a split party in

danger of falling apart, and you need the skills of a political

conjurer. Clearly self-evidently he's not displaying it because we

are talking about the chaotic split which will manifest itself in that

vote on Article 50. Labour and the SNP and the Lib Dems too I would

have thought will all put amendments down to the short Article 50 piece

of legislation. Do they have any chance of succeeding? No substantial

world is changing amendments. I don't think Theresa May has much to

worry about actually. I think if anything the reason she's pushed the

legal appeal is that it helps her to have a big chunk of the media and a

big chunk of public opinion worrying that the popular will of last year

is in danger of being overturned and so even if it was a completely

hopeless legal appeal, it generated headlines for a week that as an

incumbent Prime Minister trying to execute believe vote suits you

politically. I think it is a much bigger problem for Labour, we've

already seen some Shadow Cabinet issues in the previous week. You

have got to remember it's not just a majority of Labour MPs that want to

stay in the European Union, but a majority of Labour constituencies,

and a majority of labour macro voters wanted to stay as well so we

have three lines of division. One amendment that might get through if

it was called, and it is in the hands of the Deputy speaker who will

be chairing these debates, and that will be an amendment that said

regardless of how the Europeans treat our citizens in Europe, all EU

citizens here will be afforded full rights to remain. That might get

through. It may indeed and lots of backbench MPs would backpack. We all

know there will not be mass deportations, it is not legal, it

won't happen, it is simply a negotiating tactic. I agree with

those who say you shouldn't be using people as a negotiating tactic, but

the reality as it is the EU leaders that are doing that because it's

already been offered. The remain as should be attacking the EU

governments for not offering that in return. Article 50 is the easy bit

for her. I agree with other members of the panel that she will get it

through and the court case almost helps her by getting an easy journey

through Parliament, then it gets really difficult. All of this has

been a preamble and once she begins that nightmarish negotiation, there

will be opportunities for a smart opposition to make quite a lot of

the turmoil to come. Whether Labour are capable of that, let's wait and

see. The divisions in Labour are nightmarish for them but by no means

unprecedented. Arguably it was much more complicated in the early 1970s

when you had Titans on either side, big ex-cabinet ministers... Tony

Benn... Michael Foot, they were all at it. The fundamental issue of in

or out, and they won two elections, so you have got to be really clever.

But also how money more Labour MPs will resign. We shall find out this

week. The Daily Politics is back

tomorrow at midday and all I'll be back here

on BBC one next week. Remember - if it's Sunday,

it's the Sunday Politics.