22/01/2017 Sunday Politics North West


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22/01/2017

Andrew Neil and guests including shadow home secretary Diane Abbott provide reaction to Theresa May's Brexit speech and look at the inauguration of US president Donald Trump.


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It's Sunday morning, and this is the Sunday Politics.

:00:38.:00:40.

Theresa May will be the first foreign leader to visit US

:00:41.:00:43.

President Donald Trump this week - she's promised to hold "very

:00:44.:00:46.

frank" conversations with the new and controversial

:00:47.:00:49.

Speaking of the 45th President of America,

:00:50.:00:56.

we'll be looking at what the Trump presidency could hold

:00:57.:00:59.

in store for Britain and the rest of the world.

:01:00.:01:06.

And with the Supreme Court expected to say that Parliament should

:01:07.:01:09.

have a vote before the Brexit process begins, we'll ask

:01:10.:01:12.

Shadow Home Secretary Diane Abbott what Labour will do next.

:01:13.:01:17.

Will leaving the single market bear fruit?

:01:18.:01:35.

And to talk about all of that and more, I'm joined by three

:01:36.:01:38.

journalists who, in an era of so-called fake news, can be

:01:39.:01:41.

relied upon for their accuracy, their impartiality -

:01:42.:01:44.

and their willingness to come to the studio

:01:45.:01:48.

It's Steve Richards, Julia Hartley-Brewer

:01:49.:01:54.

and Tom Newton Dunn, and during the programme they'll be

:01:55.:02:00.

tweeting as often as the 45th President of the USA in the middle

:02:01.:02:04.

So - the Prime Minister has been appearing on the BBC this morning.

:02:05.:02:14.

She was mostly talking about Donald Trump and Brexit,

:02:15.:02:17.

but she was also asked about a story on the front of this

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It's reported that an unarmed Trident missile test fired

:02:21.:02:24.

from the submarine HMS Vengeance near the Florida coast in June

:02:25.:02:30.

The paper says the incident took place weeks before a crucial Commons

:02:31.:02:38.

Well, let's have listen to Theresa May talking

:02:39.:02:42.

The issue that we were talking about in the House of Commons

:02:43.:02:48.

It was about whether or not we should renew Trident,

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whether we should look to the future and have a replacement Trident.

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That's what we were talking about in the House of Commons.

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That's what the House of Commons voted for.

:02:59.:03:00.

He doesn't want to defend our country with an independent

:03:01.:03:05.

There are tests that take place all the time, regularly,

:03:06.:03:12.

What we were talking about in that debate that took place...

:03:13.:03:21.

I'm not going to get an answer to this.

:03:22.:03:28.

Tom, it was clear this was going to come up this morning. It is on the

:03:29.:03:35.

front page of the Sunday Times. It would seem to me the Prime Minister

:03:36.:03:39.

wasn't properly briefed on how to reply. I think she probably was, but

:03:40.:03:46.

the Prime Minister we now have doesn't necessarily answer all

:03:47.:03:49.

questions in the straightest way. She didn't answer that one and all.

:03:50.:03:57.

Unlike previous ones? She made it quite clear she was briefed. You

:03:58.:04:04.

read between the Theresa May lines. By simply not answering Andrew Marr

:04:05.:04:08.

four times, it is obvious she knew, and that she knew before she went

:04:09.:04:12.

into the House of Commons and urged everyone to renew the ?40 billion

:04:13.:04:19.

replacement programme. Of course it is an embarrassment, but does it

:04:20.:04:22.

have political legs? I don't think so. She didn't mislead the Commons.

:04:23.:04:28.

If she wanted to close it down, the answer should have been, these are

:04:29.:04:33.

matters of national security. There's nothing more important in

:04:34.:04:37.

that than our nuclear deterrent. I'm not prepared to talk about testing.

:04:38.:04:44.

End of. But she didn't. Maybe you should be briefing her. That's a

:04:45.:04:49.

good answer. She is an interesting interviewee. She shows it when she

:04:50.:04:54.

is nervous. She was transparently uneasy answering those questions,

:04:55.:04:58.

and the fact she didn't answer it definitively suggests she did know

:04:59.:05:04.

and didn't want to say it, and she answered awkwardly. But how wider

:05:05.:05:08.

point, that the House of Commons voted for the renewal of Trident,

:05:09.:05:13.

suggests to me that in the broader sweep of things, this will not run,

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because if there was another vote, I would suggest she'd win it again.

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But it is an embarrassment and she handled it with a transparent

:05:25.:05:29.

awkwardness. She said that the tests go on all the time, but not of the

:05:30.:05:35.

missiles. Does it not show that when the Prime Minister leaves her

:05:36.:05:39.

comfort zone of Home Office affairs or related matters, she often

:05:40.:05:44.

struggles. We've seen it under questioning from Mr Corbyn even, and

:05:45.:05:51.

we saw it again today. Absolutely. Tests of various aspects of the

:05:52.:05:54.

missiles go on all the time, but there's only been five since 2000.

:05:55.:06:00.

What you described wouldn't have worked, because in previous tests

:06:01.:06:04.

they have always been very public about it. Look how well our missiles

:06:05.:06:12.

work! She may not have misled Parliament, but she may not have

:06:13.:06:20.

known about it. If she didn't know, does Michael Fallon still have a job

:06:21.:06:24.

on Monday? Should Parliament know about a test that doesn't work? Some

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would say absolutely not. Our deterrent is there to deter people

:06:32.:06:37.

from attacking us. If they know that we are hitting the United States by

:06:38.:06:42.

mistake rather than the Atlantic Ocean, then... There is such a thing

:06:43.:06:46.

as national security, and telling all the bad guys about where we are

:06:47.:06:52.

going wrong may not be a good idea. It was her first statement as Prime

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Minister to put her case for renewal, to have the vote on

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Trident, and in that context, it is significant not to say anything. If

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anyone knows where the missile landed, give us a call!

:07:07.:07:09.

So Donald Trump's inauguration day closed with him dancing

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to Frank Sinatra's My Way, and whatever your view on the 45th

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President of the United States he certainly did do it his way.

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Not for him the idealistic call for national unity -

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instead he used Friday's inaugural address to launch a blistering

:07:21.:07:22.

attack on the dark state of the nation and the political

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class, and to promise to take his uncompromising approach

:07:26.:07:29.

from the campaign trail to the White House.

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Here's Adam Fleming, with a reminder of how

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First, dropping by for a cup of tea and a slightly awkward exchange

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Then, friends, foes and predecessors watched

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I, Donald John Trump, do solemnly swear...

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The crowds seemed smaller than previous inaugurations,

:08:03.:08:06.

the speech tougher then any previous incoming president.

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From this day forth, it's going to be only America first.

:08:12.:08:18.

In the meantime, there were sporadic protests in Washington, DC.

:08:19.:08:42.

Opponents made their voices heard around the world too.

:08:43.:08:47.

The President, who'd criticised the work of

:08:48.:08:49.

the intelligence agencies, fitted in a visit to the CIA.

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There is nobody that feels stronger about the intelligence community

:08:54.:08:57.

And, back at the office, in the dark, a signature signalled

:08:58.:09:09.

the end of the Obama era and the dawn of Trump.

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So, as you heard there, President Trump used his

:09:15.:09:21.

inauguration to repeat his campaign promise to put "America first"

:09:22.:09:23.

in all his decisions, and offered some hints of what to expect

:09:24.:09:26.

He talked of in America in carnage, to be rebuilt by American hands and

:09:27.:09:43.

American Labour. President Trump has already started to dismantle key

:09:44.:09:46.

parts of the Obama Legacy, including the unwinding of the affordable care

:09:47.:09:51.

act, and the siding of the climate action plan to tackle global

:09:52.:09:57.

warning. Little to say about foreign policy, but promised to eradicate

:09:58.:10:01.

Islamic terrorism from the face of the Earth, insisting he would

:10:02.:10:06.

restore the US military to unquestioning dominance. He also

:10:07.:10:12.

said the US would develop a state missile defence system to deal with

:10:13.:10:16.

threats he sees from Iran and North Korea. In a statement that painted a

:10:17.:10:21.

bleak picture of the country he now runs, he said his would be a law and

:10:22.:10:26.

order Administration, and he would keep the innocents safe by building

:10:27.:10:32.

the border war with Mexico. One thing he didn't mention, for the

:10:33.:10:37.

first time ever, there is a Eurosceptic in the oval office, who

:10:38.:10:40.

is also an enthusiast for Brexit. We're joined now by Ted Malloch -

:10:41.:10:43.

he's a Trump supporter who's been tipped as the president's

:10:44.:10:46.

choice for US ambassador to the EU, and he's

:10:47.:10:48.

just flown back from Washington. And by James Rubin -

:10:49.:10:50.

he's a democrat who served Let's start with that last point I

:10:51.:11:01.

made in the voice over there. We now have a Eurosceptic in the oval

:11:02.:11:09.

office. He is pro-Brexit and not keen on further European Union

:11:10.:11:12.

integration. What are the implications of that? First of all,

:11:13.:11:18.

a renewal of the US- UK special relationship. You see the Prime

:11:19.:11:23.

Minister already going to build and rebuild this relationship. Already,

:11:24.:11:27.

the bust of Winston Churchill is back in the oval office.

:11:28.:11:32.

Interestingly, Martin Luther King's bust is also there, so there is an

:11:33.:11:37.

act of unity in that first movement of dusts. Donald Trump will be

:11:38.:11:43.

oriented between bilateral relationships and not multilateral

:11:44.:11:54.

or supernatural. Supranational full. What are the implications of someone

:11:55.:11:59.

in the White House now not believing in it? I think we are present in the

:12:00.:12:05.

unravelling of America's leadership of the West. There is now a thing

:12:06.:12:09.

called the west that America has led since the end of World War II,

:12:10.:12:17.

creating supranational - we just heard supernatural! These

:12:18.:12:26.

institutions were created. With American leadership, the world was

:12:27.:12:31.

at peace in Europe, and the world grew increasingly democratic and

:12:32.:12:35.

prosperous. Wars were averted that could be extremely costly. When

:12:36.:12:40.

something works in diplomacy, you don't really understand what the

:12:41.:12:44.

consequences could have been. I think we've got complacent. The new

:12:45.:12:48.

president is taking advantage of that. It is a terrible tragedy that

:12:49.:12:54.

so many in the West take for granted the successful leadership and

:12:55.:12:59.

institutions we have built. You could argue, as James Rubin has

:13:00.:13:07.

argued in some articles, that... Will Mr Trump's America be more

:13:08.:13:11.

involved in the world than the Obama won? Or will it continue the process

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with running shoes on that began with Mr Obama? President Obama

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stepped back from American leadership. He withdrew from the

:13:26.:13:31.

world. He had a horrendous eight years in office, and American powers

:13:32.:13:34.

have diminished everywhere in the world, not just in Europe. That

:13:35.:13:40.

power will reassert. The focus will be on America first, but there are

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foreign interests around the world... How does it reassert itself

:13:46.:13:50.

around the world? I think the institutions will be recreated. Some

:13:51.:13:55.

may be taken down. There could be some new ones. I think Nato itself,

:13:56.:14:01.

and certainly the Defence Secretary will have discussions with Donald

:14:02.:14:05.

Trump about how Nato can be reshaped, and maybe there will be

:14:06.:14:09.

more burden sharing. That is an important thing for him. You are

:14:10.:14:14.

tipped to be the US ambassador to Brussels, to the EU, and we are

:14:15.:14:18.

still waiting to hear if that will happen. Is it true to say that Mr

:14:19.:14:23.

Trump does not believe in EU integration? I think you made that

:14:24.:14:33.

clear in the speech. He talked about supranational. He does not believe

:14:34.:14:41.

in those kinds of organisations. He is investing himself in bilateral

:14:42.:14:45.

relationships, the first of which will be with the UK. So we have a

:14:46.:14:50.

president who does not believe in EU integration and has been highly

:14:51.:14:56.

critical of Nato. Do the people he has appointed to defend, Secretary

:14:57.:15:01.

of State, national security, do you think that will temper this

:15:02.:15:05.

anti-NATO wretched? Will he come round to a more pro-NATO situation?

:15:06.:15:13.

I think those of us who care about America's situation in the world

:15:14.:15:18.

will come in to miss President Obama a lot. I think the Secretary of

:15:19.:15:22.

State and the faculty of defence will limit the damage and will urge

:15:23.:15:28.

him not to take formal steps to unravel this most powerful and most

:15:29.:15:33.

successful alliance in history, the Nato alliance. But the damage is

:15:34.:15:39.

already being done. When you are the leader of the West, leadership means

:15:40.:15:43.

you are persuading, encouraging, bolstering your leadership and these

:15:44.:15:50.

institutions by the way you speak. Millions, if not hundreds of

:15:51.:15:54.

millions of people, have now heard the US say that what they care about

:15:55.:15:56.

is within their borders. What do you say to that? It is such

:15:57.:16:05.

an overstatement. The point is that Donald Trump is in a Jacksonian

:16:06.:16:15.

tradition of national populism. He is appealing to the people first.

:16:16.:16:18.

The other day, I was sitting below this page during the address, and he

:16:19.:16:23.

said, everyone sitting behind me as part of the problem. Everyone in

:16:24.:16:27.

front of me, the crowd and the crowd on television, is part of the

:16:28.:16:31.

solution, so we are giving the Government back to the people. That

:16:32.:16:36.

emphasis is going to change American life, including American

:16:37.:16:39.

International relations. It doesn't moving the leak back -- it doesn't

:16:40.:16:48.

mean we are moving out of Nato, it simply means we will put our

:16:49.:16:53.

national interests first. There were echoes of Andrew Jackson's

:16:54.:16:56.

inauguration address of 1820. That night, the Jacksonians trashed the

:16:57.:17:02.

White House, but Mr Trump's people didn't do that, so there is a

:17:03.:17:05.

difference there. He also said something else in the address - that

:17:06.:17:11.

protectionism would lead to prosperity. I would suggest there is

:17:12.:17:18.

no evidence for that in the post-war world. He talked about protecting

:17:19.:17:24.

the American worker, American jobs, the American economy. I actually

:17:25.:17:26.

think that Donald Trump will not turn out to be a protectionist. If

:17:27.:17:34.

you read the heart of the deal... This is referring to two Republican

:17:35.:17:40.

senators who introduce massive tariffs in the Hoover

:17:41.:17:49.

administration. Exactly. If you read The Art Of The Deal, you will see

:17:50.:17:53.

how Donald Trump deals with individuals and countries. There is

:17:54.:17:56.

a lot of bluster, positioning, and I think you already see this in

:17:57.:18:02.

bringing jobs by the United States. Things are going to change. Let's

:18:03.:18:07.

also deal with this proposition. China is the biggest loser of this

:18:08.:18:14.

election result. Let me say this: The first time in American history

:18:15.:18:21.

and American president has set forth his view of the world, and it is a

:18:22.:18:29.

mercantile view of the world, who makes more money, who gets more

:18:30.:18:33.

trade, it doesn't look at the shared values, leadership and defends the

:18:34.:18:37.

world needs. The art of the deal has no application to America's

:18:38.:18:40.

leadership of the world, that's what we're learning. You can be a great

:18:41.:18:46.

businessman and make great real estate deals - whether he did not is

:18:47.:18:50.

debatable - but it has nothing to do with inspiring shared values from

:18:51.:18:55.

the West. You saying China may lose, because he may pressure them to

:18:56.:18:59.

reduce their trade deficit with the US. They may or may not. We may both

:19:00.:19:05.

lose. Right now, his Secretary of State has said, and I think he will

:19:06.:19:09.

walk this back when he is brief, that they will prevent the Chinese

:19:10.:19:13.

from entering these islands in the South China Sea. If they were to do

:19:14.:19:18.

that, it would be a blockade, and there would be a shooting war

:19:19.:19:22.

between the United States and China, so US - China relations are the most

:19:23.:19:27.

important bilateral relationship of the United States, and they don't

:19:28.:19:30.

lend themselves to the bluff and bluster that may have worked when

:19:31.:19:35.

you are trying to get a big building on second Ave in Manhattan. Is China

:19:36.:19:40.

the biggest loser? I think the Chinese have a lot to lose. Gigi and

:19:41.:19:56.

Ping was in Davos this week -- Xi Jin Ping was in Davos.

:19:57.:20:02.

Is Germany the second biggest loser in the sense that I understand he

:20:03.:20:08.

hasn't agreed time to see Angela Merkel yet, also that those close to

:20:09.:20:16.

him believe that Germany is guilty of currency manipulation by adopting

:20:17.:20:18.

a weak your row instead of the strong Deutschmark, and that that is

:20:19.:20:23.

why they are running a huge balance of payments surplus with the United

:20:24.:20:29.

States. American - German relations may not be great. There is a point

:20:30.:20:34.

of view throughout Europe. You only have to talk to the southern

:20:35.:20:38.

Europeans about this question. It seems like the euro has been aligned

:20:39.:20:42.

to benefit Germany. Joe Stiglitz, the famous left of centre Democrat

:20:43.:20:48.

economist, made the same case in a recent book. In this case, I think

:20:49.:20:55.

Germany will be put under the spotlight. Angela Merkel has shown

:20:56.:20:59.

herself to be the most respected and the most successful leader in

:21:00.:21:04.

Europe. We who care about the West, who care about the shared values of

:21:05.:21:09.

the West, should pray and hope that she is re-elected. This isn't about

:21:10.:21:14.

dollars and cents. We're living in a time whether Russian leader has

:21:15.:21:19.

another country in Europe and for some inexplicable reason, the

:21:20.:21:24.

American president, who can use his insult diplomacy on everyone,

:21:25.:21:27.

including Mrs Merkel, the only person he can't seem to find

:21:28.:21:34.

anything to criticise about is Mr Putin. There are things more

:21:35.:21:37.

important than the actual details of your currency. There are things like

:21:38.:21:42.

preventing another war in Europe, preventing a war between the Chinese

:21:43.:21:44.

and the US. You talk about the Trident missile all morning, nuclear

:21:45.:21:51.

deterrence is extremely important. It doesn't lend itself to the bluff

:21:52.:21:57.

and bluster of a real estate deal. I understand all that, but the fact we

:21:58.:22:00.

are even talking about these things shows the new world we are moving

:22:01.:22:04.

into. I'd like to get you both to react to this. This is a man that

:22:05.:22:09.

ended the Bush Dynasty, a man that beat the Clinton machine. In his

:22:10.:22:16.

inauguration, not only did he not reach out to the Democrats, he

:22:17.:22:19.

didn't even mention the Republicans. These are changed days for us. They

:22:20.:22:26.

are, and change can be good or disastrous. I'm worried that it's

:22:27.:22:29.

easy in the world of diplomacy and in them -- for the leadership of the

:22:30.:22:36.

United States to break relationships and ruin alliances. These are things

:22:37.:22:40.

that were carefully nurtured. George Schultz, the American Secretary of

:22:41.:22:47.

State under Reagan talked about gardening, the slow, careful

:22:48.:22:51.

creation of a place with bilateral relationships that were blossoming

:22:52.:22:56.

and flowering multilateral relationships that take decades to

:22:57.:22:59.

create, and he will throw them away in a matter of days. The final

:23:00.:23:05.

word... I work for George Schultz. He was a Marine who stood up

:23:06.:23:09.

America, defended America, who would be in favour of many of the things

:23:10.:23:13.

that Donald Trump and the tramp Administration... Give him a call.

:23:14.:23:19.

His top aide macs that I've spoken to are appalled by Mr Trump's

:23:20.:23:23.

abdication of leadership. He is going to our radically -- he's going

:23:24.:23:31.

to eradicate extremist Islam from the face of the year. Is that

:23:32.:23:36.

realistic? I know people in the national security realm have worked

:23:37.:23:39.

on a plan. They say they will have such a plan in some detail within 90

:23:40.:23:46.

days. Lets hope they succeed. We have run out of time. As a issues.

:23:47.:23:51.

Thank you, both. -- fascinating issues.

:23:52.:23:55.

So Theresa May promised a big speech on Brexit, and this week -

:23:56.:23:58.

perhaps against expectation - she delivered, trying to answer

:23:59.:24:00.

claims that the government didn't have a plan with an explicit

:24:01.:24:03.

wish-list of what she hopes to achieve in negotiations with the EU.

:24:04.:24:06.

To her allies it was ambitious, bold, optimistic -

:24:07.:24:08.

to her opponents it was full of contradictions

:24:09.:24:10.

Here's Adam again, with a reminder of the speech and how

:24:11.:24:13.

There are speeches, and there are speeches.

:24:14.:24:18.

Like Theresa May's 12 principles for a Brexit deal leading

:24:19.:24:22.

to the UK fully out of the EU but still friendly in terms

:24:23.:24:25.

This agreement should allow for the freest possible trade

:24:26.:24:29.

in goods and services between Britain and the EU's member states.

:24:30.:24:31.

It should give British companies the maximum

:24:32.:24:37.

operate within European markets and let European businesses do

:24:38.:24:40.

She also said no deal would be better than the wrong deal,

:24:41.:24:48.

We want to test what people think about what she's just said.

:24:49.:25:04.

Do we have any of our future negotiating

:25:05.:25:06.

As the European Parliament voted for its new

:25:07.:25:11.

president, its chief negotiator sounded off.

:25:12.:25:19.

Saying, OK, if our European counterparts don't accept

:25:20.:25:21.

it, we're going to make from Britain a sort

:25:22.:25:24.

of free zone or tax haven, I

:25:25.:25:26.

The Prime Minister of Malta, the country that's assumed the EU's

:25:27.:25:33.

rotating presidency, spoke in sorrow and a bit of anger.

:25:34.:25:36.

We want a fair deal for the United Kingdom, but

:25:37.:25:40.

that deal necessarily needs to be inferior to membership.

:25:41.:25:50.

Next, let's hear from some enthusiastic

:25:51.:25:52.

leavers, like, I don't know, the Daily Mail?

:25:53.:25:57.

The paper lapped it up with this adoring front page.

:25:58.:26:01.

For Brexiteers, it was all manna from heaven.

:26:02.:26:05.

I think today means we are a big step closer to becoming

:26:06.:26:07.

an independent country again, with control of our own laws,

:26:08.:26:10.

I was chuckling at some of it, to be honest, because

:26:11.:26:16.

There were various phrases there which I've used myself again and

:26:17.:26:20.

Do we have any of those so-called Remoaners?

:26:21.:26:25.

There will, at the end of this deal process,

:26:26.:26:27.

so politicians get to vote on the stitch-up, but

:26:28.:26:31.

We take the view as Liberal Democrats that

:26:32.:26:34.

if this process started with democracy last June,

:26:35.:26:36.

We trusted the people with departure, we must trust them

:26:37.:26:40.

Do we have anyone from Labour, or are you all

:26:41.:26:46.

watching it in a small room somewhere?

:26:47.:26:48.

Throughout the speech, there seemed to be an implied threat that

:26:49.:26:56.

somewhere along the line, if all her optimism of a deal

:26:57.:26:59.

with the European Union didn't work, we would move

:27:00.:27:01.

into a low-tax, corporate taxation, bargain-basement economy on the

:27:02.:27:03.

I think she needs to be a bit clearer about what

:27:04.:27:06.

The Labour leader suggested he'd tell

:27:07.:27:14.

his MPs to vote in favour of starting a Brexit process if

:27:15.:27:17.

Parliament was given the choice, sparking a mini pre-revolt among

:27:18.:27:19.

Finally, do we have anyone from big business here?

:27:20.:27:25.

Of course, your all in Davos at the World Economic

:27:26.:27:34.

Clarity, first of all, really codified what many of us have been

:27:35.:27:44.

anticipating since the referendum result,

:27:45.:27:46.

particularly around the

:27:47.:27:47.

I think what we've also seen today is the Government's

:27:48.:27:51.

willingness to put a bit of edge into the negotiating dynamic, and I

:27:52.:27:54.

Trade negotiations are negotiations, and you have to lay out, and you

:27:55.:27:59.

have to be pretty tough to get what you want.

:28:00.:28:01.

Although some business people on the slopes speculated

:28:02.:28:03.

about moving some of their operations out of Brexit Britain.

:28:04.:28:05.

We saw there the instant reaction of Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn,

:28:06.:28:24.

but how will the party respond to the challenge posed by Brexit

:28:25.:28:27.

Well, I'm joined now by the Shadow Home Secretary, Diane Abbott.

:28:28.:28:30.

People know that Ukip and the Tories are for Brexit. The Lib Dems are

:28:31.:28:39.

four remain. What is Labour for? For respecting the result of the

:28:40.:28:44.

referendum. It was a 72% turnout, very high for an election of that

:28:45.:28:48.

nature, and we believe you have to respect that result. You couldn't

:28:49.:28:52.

have a situation where people like Tim Farron are saying to people,

:28:53.:28:56.

millions of people, sorry, you got it wrong, we in London no better.

:28:57.:28:59.

However, how the Tories go forward from here has to be subject to

:29:00.:29:07.

parliamentary scrutiny. Is it Shadow Cabinet policy to vote for the

:29:08.:29:12.

triggering of Article 50? Our policy is not to block Article 50. That is

:29:13.:29:15.

what the leader was saying this morning. So are you for it? Our

:29:16.:29:22.

policy is not to block it. You are talking about voting for it. We

:29:23.:29:27.

don't know what the Supreme Court is going to say, and we don't know what

:29:28.:29:33.

legislation Government will bring forward, and we don't know what

:29:34.:29:36.

amendment we will move, but we're clear that we will not vote to block

:29:37.:29:43.

it. OK, so you won't bow to stop it, but you could abstain? No, what we

:29:44.:29:51.

will do... Either you vote for or against all you abstain. There are

:29:52.:29:55.

too many unanswered questions. For instance, the position of EU

:29:56.:29:58.

migrants working and living in this country. You may not get the answer

:29:59.:30:03.

to that before Article 50 comes before the Commons, so what would

:30:04.:30:07.

you do then? We are giving to amend it. We can only tell you exactly how

:30:08.:30:12.

we will amend it when we understand what sort of legislation the

:30:13.:30:15.

Government is putting forward, and in the course of moving those

:30:16.:30:19.

amendments, we will ask the questions that the people of Britain

:30:20.:30:23.

whether they voted to leave remain want answered.

:30:24.:30:28.

When you come to a collective view, will there be a three line whip? I

:30:29.:30:37.

can't tell you, because we have not seen the government 's legislation.

:30:38.:30:42.

But when you see it, you will come to a collective view. Many regard

:30:43.:30:48.

this as extremely important. Will there be a three line whip on

:30:49.:30:53.

Labour's collective view? Because it is important, we shouldn't get ahead

:30:54.:30:59.

of ourselves. When we see what the Supreme Court says, and crucially,

:31:00.:31:02.

when we see what the government position is, you will hear what the

:31:03.:31:07.

whipping is. Will shadow ministers be able to defy any three line whip

:31:08.:31:14.

on this? That is not normally the case. But they did on an early vote

:31:15.:31:19.

that the government introduced on Article 50. Those who voted against

:31:20.:31:25.

it are still there. In the Blair years, you certainly couldn't defy a

:31:26.:31:29.

three line whip. We will see what happens going forward. I remember

:31:30.:31:36.

when the Tories were hopelessly divided over the EU. All these

:31:37.:31:39.

Maastricht votes and an list arguments. Now it is Labour. Just

:31:40.:31:46.

another symptom of Mr Corbyn's poor leadership. Not at all. Two thirds

:31:47.:31:58.

voted to leave, a third to remain. We are seeking to bring the country

:31:59.:32:03.

and the party together. We will do that by pointing out how disastrous

:32:04.:32:08.

a Tory Brexit would be. Meanwhile, around 80 Labour MPs will defy a

:32:09.:32:18.

three line whip. It's too early to say that. Will you publish what you

:32:19.:32:22.

believe the negotiating goal should be? We are clear on it. We think

:32:23.:32:28.

that the economy, jobs and living standards should be the priority.

:32:29.:32:34.

What Theresa May is saying is that holding her party together is her

:32:35.:32:39.

priority. She is putting party above country. Does Labour think we should

:32:40.:32:46.

remain members of the single market? Ideally, in terms of jobs and the

:32:47.:32:50.

economy, of course. Ritt -ish business thinks that as well. Is

:32:51.:32:55.

Labour policy that we should remain a member of the single market?

:32:56.:33:00.

Labour leaves that jobs and the economy comes first, and if they

:33:01.:33:04.

come first, you would want to remain part of the single market. But to

:33:05.:33:11.

remain a member? Jobs and the economy comes first, and to do that,

:33:12.:33:18.

ideally, guess. So with that, comes free movement of people, the

:33:19.:33:23.

jurisdiction of the European, and a multi-million never shipped thief.

:33:24.:33:29.

Is Labour prepared to pay that? Money is neither here nor there.

:33:30.:33:35.

Because the Tories will be asked to pay a lot of money... The EU has

:33:36.:33:44.

made it clear that you cannot have... I am asking for Labour's

:33:45.:33:51.

position. Our position is rooted in the reality, and the reality is that

:33:52.:33:56.

you cannot have the benefits of the member of the European Union,

:33:57.:34:00.

including being a member of the single market, without

:34:01.:34:03.

responsibility, including free movement of people. Free movement,

:34:04.:34:07.

is remaining under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. Is

:34:08.:34:16.

that the Labour position? You've said that Labour wants to remain a

:34:17.:34:21.

member of the single market. That is the price tag that comes with it.

:34:22.:34:25.

Does Labour agree with paying that price tag? We are not pre-empting

:34:26.:34:31.

negotiation. Our goals are protect jobs and the British economy. Is it

:34:32.:34:36.

Labour's position that we remain a member of the customs union? Well,

:34:37.:34:45.

if we don't, I don't see how Theresa May can keep our promises and has

:34:46.:34:55.

unfettered access... You said Labour's position was clear. It is!

:34:56.:35:04.

It is clear that Theresa May... I am not asking about Theresa May. Is it

:35:05.:35:10.

Labour's position to remain a member of the customs union? It is Labour's

:35:11.:35:16.

position to do what is right for British industry. Depending on how

:35:17.:35:20.

the negotiations go, it may prove that coming out of the customs

:35:21.:35:25.

union, as Theresa May has indicated she wants to do, could prove

:35:26.:35:31.

catastrophic, and could actually destroy some of her promises. You do

:35:32.:35:36.

accept that if we are member of the customs union, we cannot do our own

:35:37.:35:43.

free trade deals? What free trade deals are you talking about? The

:35:44.:35:49.

ones that Labour might want to do in the future. First, we have to

:35:50.:35:54.

protect British jobs and British industries. If you are talking about

:35:55.:35:59.

free trade deals with Donald Trump, the danger is that Theresa May will

:36:00.:36:03.

get drawn into a free-trade deal with America that will open up the

:36:04.:36:10.

NHS to American corporate... The cards are in Theresa May's hands. If

:36:11.:36:16.

she takes us out of the single market, if she takes us out of the

:36:17.:36:20.

customs union, we will have to deal with that. How big a crisis for

:36:21.:36:25.

Jeremy Corbyn will be if Labour loses both by-elections in February.

:36:26.:36:31.

I don't believe we will lose both. But if he did? I am not anticipating

:36:32.:36:40.

that. Is Labour lost two seats in a midterm of a Tory government, would

:36:41.:36:44.

that be business as usual? I'm not prepared to see us lose those seats,

:36:45.:36:48.

so I will not talk about something that will not happen. Thank you.

:36:49.:36:52.

You're watching the Sunday Politics.

:36:53.:36:53.

We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now

:36:54.:36:56.

Coming up here in 20 minutes, The Week Ahead,

:36:57.:36:59.

when we'll be talking to Business Minister Margot James

:37:00.:37:01.

about the government's new industrial strategy and that

:37:02.:37:04.

crucial Supreme Court ruling on Brexit.

:37:05.:37:07.

First, though, the Sunday Politics where you are.

:37:08.:37:20.

Coming up in the north-west... A bright future for global trade or

:37:21.:37:29.

simply bananas? Will leaving the single market beer any fruit? Are

:37:30.:37:34.

you happy with the way it is going? Yes, totally happy at the moment.

:37:35.:37:39.

Get it all sorted and get out of the European union.

:37:40.:37:42.

As are our guests I'm sure - Angela Rayner the Labour MP

:37:43.:37:46.

for Ashton-under-Lyne and Shadow Education Secretary,

:37:47.:37:47.

and Graham Brady is the senior backbench Conservative MP

:37:48.:37:50.

We will get your views shortly on the speech.

:37:51.:37:59.

Let's hear from Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron who didn't

:38:00.:38:02.

To take us out of the single market and with the white flag over the

:38:03.:38:13.

cliffs of Dover and give up on what is best for Britain, is damaging to

:38:14.:38:18.

Britain's future and it is a theft of democracy. It was not on the

:38:19.:38:23.

ballot paper at last June and it is terrible she is forcing it on as

:38:24.:38:25.

now. We went through a referendum

:38:26.:38:33.

campaign where both sides It was made very clear

:38:34.:38:38.

by the Prime Minister at the time and George Osborne,

:38:39.:38:43.

the Chancellor. It was made clear by both

:38:44.:38:44.

sides in the campaign. If people want to have

:38:45.:38:47.

control over migration into the United Kingdom, it is also

:38:48.:38:52.

a fundamental requirement. You cannot do that

:38:53.:38:54.

in this angle market. What was clear was the outcome

:38:55.:38:56.

of the referendum. One of the things we do get through

:38:57.:39:01.

it now is ensuring we get the best If we're not going to be

:39:02.:39:06.

of the single market, I understand Theresa May is looking

:39:07.:39:10.

at how we will get access to that single market and that is something

:39:11.:39:13.

we need to progress and make sure Our young people need those

:39:14.:39:16.

high-skilled, high wage jobs and that business across Europe

:39:17.:39:21.

and That is my priority,

:39:22.:39:22.

to hold Theresa May on that. So how has Theresa May's vision

:39:23.:39:29.

for Brexit gone down We asked Stuart Pollitt

:39:30.:39:32.

to gauge reaction at not just a single market

:39:33.:39:35.

- get it? but two - in towns with different

:39:36.:39:39.

views in last year's referendum. It's just over six

:39:40.:39:42.

months since the in or out choice that put the cat

:39:43.:39:52.

amongst the pigeons. Have attitudes changed

:39:53.:39:56.

in Brexit backing Burnley? The day after the vote we met Athena

:39:57.:40:02.

and her partner James. They'd opened their greek deli

:40:03.:40:06.

in Burnley that very week. Business is still quite slow

:40:07.:40:11.

but a nice Christmas, a good You and your partner had

:40:12.:40:14.

a difference in opinion. I still think that people don't

:40:15.:40:22.

realise how difficult it will be A lot of people think it

:40:23.:40:29.

has gone down hill, the Do you think we might

:40:30.:41:04.

have made a mistake? Our country, the best

:41:05.:41:07.

country in the world. This was an area that

:41:08.:41:12.

voted to remain. How do they think

:41:13.:41:18.

about all things EU and Their wider business has

:41:19.:41:21.

been bubbling away quite Ours has increased in

:41:22.:41:31.

the past six months. We have found an

:41:32.:41:38.

increase in business. It has made me think

:41:39.:41:39.

to get along a bit faster. We were going back

:41:40.:41:54.

to what we used to be. So it seems that

:41:55.:42:13.

despite Theresa May's intervention this week -

:42:14.:42:15.

peopel's views about our place Nobody seems to be

:42:16.:42:17.

changing their minds. Also with us is Dr Kathryn Simpson,

:42:18.:42:20.

a Brexit expert from I would like to start

:42:21.:42:23.

with you, Angela. You have accused the Prime

:42:24.:42:28.

Minister of dithering. It provided some clarity

:42:29.:42:30.

but I so have concerns and one of the concerns

:42:31.:42:41.

is the north-west has seemed

:42:42.:42:43.

like the poor cousin and I want and I want to see the detail

:42:44.:42:51.

about how we're going to get How is Brexit going to

:42:52.:42:54.

ensure we are getting a fare share of the economic

:42:55.:43:01.

pie, so to speak. We have not felt that for a long

:43:02.:43:03.

time and I think that is why parts of the north-west

:43:04.:43:08.

voted in the way we did. We want to see the fruits

:43:09.:43:10.

of that in the north-west. Would you like to see her go further

:43:11.:43:13.

in what will replace single market? No, I think people

:43:14.:43:16.

complained about her moving slowly is because she

:43:17.:43:18.

is methodical and she likes

:43:19.:43:19.

to work through things. She has now given a clear statement

:43:20.:43:21.

about what they are trying to achieve and negotiate

:43:22.:43:25.

the objectives are. We cannot announce what is

:43:26.:43:32.

happening at this point. We need to go and that

:43:33.:43:34.

for the best deal that we can. I think what she has set out

:43:35.:43:37.

in terms of that trade It is a difficult one

:43:38.:43:40.

from the speech that she gave on Tuesday,

:43:41.:43:48.

it is clear we are going to be leaving the single and also

:43:49.:43:51.

we want to have a relationship with the customs union

:43:52.:43:55.

as well but we are going to opt out With a lot of trade agreements

:43:56.:43:58.

as well, these take Davos speech, she slapped the wrist

:43:59.:44:06.

of some of the leaders who was There was criticism

:44:07.:44:22.

across Europe that she She accused the EU of holding us

:44:23.:44:29.

in a vice like grip. That is not how you make friends

:44:30.:44:38.

and influence people. What I welcome most

:44:39.:44:41.

is the positive, warm tone. I like the fact

:44:42.:44:43.

she was talking about looking outwards and

:44:44.:44:45.

engaging with the world. We see ourselves as being close

:44:46.:44:49.

allies of our European I think we will be more engaged

:44:50.:44:51.

with Europe and the world without having this destructive

:44:52.:44:56.

relationship where we are constantly arguing against the next

:44:57.:44:58.

round of integration. Because they want to go to a place

:44:59.:45:05.

that we never could. Angela, where was Jeremy Corbyn

:45:06.:45:07.

after this speech? It was a golden opportunity

:45:08.:45:09.

to get the Labour message across and we saw a confused

:45:10.:45:13.

message from the Labour leader. Jeremy Corbyn was quite

:45:14.:45:16.

strong in questions. We put our press release out and

:45:17.:45:21.

meet your people were clear that we do not want a bargain basement

:45:22.:45:38.

economy and the tax haven that we were concerned the

:45:39.:45:41.

Chancellor spoke about. We want to see high skilled,

:45:42.:45:42.

highly paid jobs in the north-west. I am crucially involved with that

:45:43.:45:45.

in our education brief. We are not going to be

:45:46.:45:48.

able to provide that economy and those jobs and we are

:45:49.:45:50.

looking at being a tax haven. Tim Farron has offered

:45:51.:45:53.

an alternative. He is going to ignore

:45:54.:45:58.

the vote of the Do you think your constituents

:45:59.:46:00.

know what Jeremy Corbyn We will be exiting the European

:46:01.:46:04.

union and we want to see the details of how we're

:46:05.:46:10.

going to protect jobs and make sure we have what people describe as soft

:46:11.:46:14.

mandate to end up with less quality conditions.

:46:15.:46:32.

People in the north-west voted strongly because

:46:33.:46:33.

They were not control of their lives any more.

:46:34.:46:36.

They have not been given opportunities.

:46:37.:46:38.

They want to see was opportunities and I want to make

:46:39.:46:41.

sure that those opportunities come to the north-west for us.

:46:42.:46:43.

A strong message has been from the Liberal

:46:44.:46:47.

They are the strong European or pro-European, party in

:46:48.:46:57.

This is the one time that we want strong opposition in British

:46:58.:47:01.

The Conservatives have a difficult six-month ahead of them

:47:02.:47:05.

and I think Labour need a clear message on where they stand on

:47:06.:47:08.

Brexit and what they expect to come of these negotiations over the

:47:09.:47:11.

Just to pick up on the north-west, and the

:47:12.:47:16.

idea of people feeling disengaged, there was a strong leave vote for

:47:17.:47:21.

the European union, apart from the city

:47:22.:47:22.

centre of Manchester, but

:47:23.:47:23.

regional structural development funds are matched funding and that

:47:24.:47:29.

is something that we need to have more clarifications on in terms of

:47:30.:47:32.

investment for jobs, different educational

:47:33.:47:33.

programmes but for the

:47:34.:47:34.

Will our views in the north west actually matter?

:47:35.:47:38.

Labour's mayoral contender for Greater Manchester sought

:47:39.:47:40.

assurances this week from the Brexit Secretary.

:47:41.:47:44.

I see the Prime Minister's speech today that she mentions the impact

:47:45.:47:47.

Protecting the interests of Cardiff and London. There is no mention of

:47:48.:48:00.

the north-west of Manchester. I am called as of the needs of the north

:48:01.:48:08.

and what I am intending to do, is after at the mayoral elections to

:48:09.:48:12.

get all the mayors of the north to come together and have a meeting to

:48:13.:48:17.

talk about that. He has promised this committee for the regions on

:48:18.:48:22.

Brexit. We are feeling abandoned. The northern Power has seems to have

:48:23.:48:27.

disappeared. Phrase that David Davis is using? I think David Davis is it

:48:28.:48:35.

nor there are, the wrong side of the Pennines but we will not hold that

:48:36.:48:41.

against him but he realised the importance of that engagement and he

:48:42.:48:44.

was offering that to the north. He took that we have got members of

:48:45.:48:54.

Parliament to make sure our voices are heard. We do not want the words

:48:55.:48:58.

That was part of the Brexit vote for That was part of the Brexit vote for

:48:59.:49:04.

me, they want to see the real investment programme were there

:49:05.:49:08.

young people are not having to young people are not having to

:49:09.:49:11.

they want to see the jobs in they want to see the jobs in

:49:12.:49:15.

Manchester and the north. We are seeing a lot of that investment in

:49:16.:49:19.

transport but it is going to be wider, we are on the same page of

:49:20.:49:25.

that. A lot of the jobs are reliant on the U. If we leave the single

:49:26.:49:27.

market, this is jumping into the market, this is jumping into the

:49:28.:49:33.

unknown? There is a period of uncertainty. What is interesting is

:49:34.:49:38.

that that kind of economic shock has not hit as strongly as it was

:49:39.:49:42.

predicted. Because of the uncertainty that we know about

:49:43.:49:46.

because of the Brexit negotiations, yes, we have had some clarity but

:49:47.:49:50.

not lots. There is no white paper that is going to follow up the

:49:51.:49:54.

speech. We need to see further clarity and this period of

:49:55.:49:58.

uncertainty will fester this, in particular for jobs and the economy.

:49:59.:50:02.

People say we did not learn anything. She gave a great speech

:50:03.:50:07.

but we did not learn very much, did we? I do not know, I had a call from

:50:08.:50:12.

a journalist and they said they have never seen a speech overdeliver.

:50:13.:50:19.

What did we learn? The tone was the most important thing. Reaching out

:50:20.:50:26.

and being globally engaged and the reassuring that was offered to

:50:27.:50:30.

citizens from the European union in the UK. Not a cast-iron guarantee.

:50:31.:50:37.

That is a hands of the other European countries. It would have

:50:38.:50:42.

been given if... I think there was a lot in the speech in terms of tone,

:50:43.:50:47.

but in terms of direction. I do not think... This was a 7000 word

:50:48.:50:53.

speech, I do not agree need a white Paper now. If people want a White

:50:54.:50:58.

Paper, they should print the speech off. I am sure we will be coming

:50:59.:51:02.

back to this. Thank you very much for joining us.

:51:03.:51:05.

Art, music and cookery lessons could soon be

:51:06.:51:07.

a thing of the past, according to head

:51:08.:51:09.

?3 billion is being cut from the national budget,

:51:10.:51:12.

while individual schools are also getting to grips

:51:13.:51:14.

And spending per pupil in one half of Cheshire is now

:51:15.:51:18.

the lowest in the country, as Phil McCann can explain.

:51:19.:51:26.

Chefs and artists, two professions this school may not be producing in

:51:27.:51:35.

future unless the Government's new funding formula changes. I want to

:51:36.:51:39.

use it for when I am older so I can cook on my own. I think it is

:51:40.:51:43.

important for young people to learn about it and I enjoyed cooking

:51:44.:51:47.

different foods every week. I like guitar lessons because I like

:51:48.:51:53.

letting my inspiration paint itself on a page. It is devastating for us

:51:54.:52:00.

it to come off the curriculum. We will miss out as a country. This

:52:01.:52:08.

budget. These subjects could go or a budget. These subjects could go or a

:52:09.:52:17.

four day week good goal. Under this proposal, these subjects are at

:52:18.:52:23.

risk, these subjects that make school should be about. A balanced

:52:24.:52:27.

experience for our young people. We have never seen anything like it. It

:52:28.:52:32.

is Draconian and it will destroy some schools. It is going to have a

:52:33.:52:37.

massive impact on the provision we give to our children in an area of

:52:38.:52:42.

deprivation. The schools in this area are amongst the worst funded in

:52:43.:52:47.

England. Your is a problem for you. The Education Secretary wants to

:52:48.:52:51.

reduce the basic level of funding for each pupil in Cheshire by ?87.

:52:52.:52:56.

All is not equal, if you subtract All is not equal, if you subtract

:52:57.:53:00.

the amount that people would get that there are counterparts in the

:53:01.:53:04.

best funded parts of the UK would get... Pupils here would lose out to

:53:05.:53:14.

the tune of ?2700. The formula makes one of the worst funded borrowers in

:53:15.:53:21.

England the worst funded. Also joining Cheshire east in the bottom

:53:22.:53:28.

ten... Warrington, the west of Cheshire, Stockport and Trafford.

:53:29.:53:34.

Last week, the schools minister told MPs the formula was meant to get rid

:53:35.:53:38.

of inequalities. We need to introduce fear funding so that the

:53:39.:53:42.

same child with the same need will attract the same funding, regardless

:53:43.:53:47.

of where they happen to live. Top ups do mean some schools are better

:53:48.:53:51.

off if they are in deprived areas. More people to do not speak English

:53:52.:53:55.

as a second language. The Government is facing pressure to come up with a

:53:56.:53:59.

new mix of many of its MPs who teased unfairness. -- taste. A

:54:00.:54:09.

headteacher saying it was Draconian and brilliant schools could be

:54:10.:54:15.

damaged. Absolutely right and the draft that has been put out has some

:54:16.:54:20.

very perverse effects. It cannot happen. It is a draft for

:54:21.:54:26.

discussion. I think the Secretary of State and other ministers have felt

:54:27.:54:29.

clearly the views that others have expressed about that. Many of us

:54:30.:54:34.

have wanted a national funding formula for a long time because we

:54:35.:54:37.

represent areas which historically have been badly funded and there

:54:38.:54:41.

should be a way to even it up and get fairness. It is crazy to

:54:42.:54:45.

proposal whereby the worst funded proposal whereby the worst funded

:54:46.:54:48.

authorities would get even less than seeing them come up to the

:54:49.:54:52.

This is on top of the 3 billion This is on top of the 3 billion

:54:53.:54:55.

being cut nationally. Greening being cut nationally. Greening

:54:56.:55:01.

saying there has to be a... Something has to give. That is what

:55:02.:55:08.

we are talking about. We are talking about the worst funded local

:55:09.:55:12.

authority areas facing further cuts and the whole point of a national

:55:13.:55:16.

funding formula is to achieve fairness across the country. Angela,

:55:17.:55:23.

we heard figures of the worst schools in the country. All in the

:55:24.:55:30.

north-west, all in the bottom five, all Labour-controlled local

:55:31.:55:32.

authorities. What is upsetting to me is that in some of our most deprived

:55:33.:55:37.

areas with a neat extra support, some of the cuts that have been

:55:38.:55:43.

really hard-hitting and our services have been affected by that. Oldham

:55:44.:55:49.

Council have seen over 50% of their budget cut. It has had an impact and

:55:50.:55:53.

we need to be putting that money in. Justine Greening said it is going to

:55:54.:55:57.

be one of those Tiger did areas but if we take ?20 and take ten back,

:55:58.:56:06.

you are still losing ?10. We do want a national funding formula is fear

:56:07.:56:09.

and poster Brexit, our young people are going to be the future and the

:56:10.:56:15.

ones who are going to have technology and make Britain great

:56:16.:56:20.

again. Why are they not investing in grammar schools, when we know bright

:56:21.:56:27.

kids are not being reached? People do better when they go to grammar

:56:28.:56:33.

wealthier backgrounds. We need to wealthier backgrounds. We need to

:56:34.:56:37.

is as fair as possible. How do we do is as fair as possible. How do we do

:56:38.:56:42.

that when we know there is evidence that families moved to that area and

:56:43.:56:48.

pay for tutors. Let's get some grammar schools in the least

:56:49.:56:52.

affluent areas. Will that work, Angela? As we both know, there is

:56:53.:56:59.

private tutoring and children get squeezed out again. It is not a fair

:57:00.:57:02.

system and we know that the national system and we know that the national

:57:03.:57:08.

tables show that where we have comprehensive systems, that serves

:57:09.:57:14.

children, all children do well in a comprehensive system. When you bring

:57:15.:57:18.

in selection, like in Kent, the attainment gap grows. If you look at

:57:19.:57:25.

Trafford, we are doing a great job for children across a whole.

:57:26.:57:31.

Trafford is an affluent area. It is a mixed area. That is because there

:57:32.:57:35.

are more grammar schools they appeared to move there for that

:57:36.:57:39.

reason. We are getting good results. If you look at the tables that came

:57:40.:57:45.

out this week,... Progress and grammar schools were not as good as

:57:46.:57:50.

comprehensive. One of the newspapers said that particular at the tables,

:57:51.:57:56.

they were better than any of the nearby authorities. That includes

:57:57.:58:00.

schools like Stratford Grammar, which is in one of the less affluent

:58:01.:58:06.

parts. If you look at the model of grammars were they can afford to get

:58:07.:58:14.

extra curricular act to reduce -- activities, we want that for every

:58:15.:58:20.

child, wouldn't you agree? We need all children to get that. I go to

:58:21.:58:24.

the local high schools and I see some of the best teachers they are.

:58:25.:58:30.

You get really good teachers who have different inclinations,

:58:31.:58:31.

different specialisms... They will tell you that they are restricted in

:58:32.:58:36.

terms of offering extracurricular activities. We need that funding and

:58:37.:58:43.

support to do that. You will have to agree to disagree on this one.

:58:44.:58:46.

Health services were still in the news this week.

:58:47.:58:48.

Here's Carol Lowe with that and a roundup of what else

:58:49.:58:51.

for the region's health services this week.

:58:52.:59:04.

Celebrations in Chorley as A reopened part-time after nine

:59:05.:59:06.

We wanted open 24 seven. It is not open 24/7. -- want it open.

:59:07.:59:16.

But anger in Bury as health bosses voted to close two walk-in centres.

:59:17.:59:21.

We need these places were you can just go on.

:59:22.:59:24.

The biggest building project outside London is in its final year.

:59:25.:59:27.

The 600 million pound Mersey Gateway Bridge is due

:59:28.:59:29.

A consultation closed into plans for a generation of homebuilding

:59:30.:59:33.

Tynwald's on the telly - the Manx Parliament has been up

:59:34.:59:40.

and running for more than a millennium and will now

:59:41.:59:42.

And Washington finally welcomed a man who could shape

:59:43.:59:48.

As the MP for Ribble Valley Nigel Evans popped over for the weekend.

:59:49.:59:57.

Thank you to my guests, Angela Rayner and Graham Brady.

:59:58.:00:02.

Next week we'll be looking at a local MP's role in the legacy

:00:03.:00:06.

Now I'll hand you back to Andrew Neil in London.

:00:07.:00:10.

have to do this. Thank you to you both.

:00:11.:00:13.

What exactly is the government's industrial strategy?

:00:14.:00:23.

Will ministers lose their supreme court battle over Brexit, and,

:00:24.:00:27.

Well, tomorrow Theresa May is launching the government's

:00:28.:00:39.

industrial strategy - and to talk about that we're joined

:00:40.:00:42.

by the Business Minister, Margot James - welcome to the show.

:00:43.:00:50.

When you look at what has already been released in advance of the

:00:51.:00:57.

Prime Minister's statement, it was embargoed for last night, it's not

:00:58.:01:03.

really an industrial strategy, it's just another skills strategy, of

:01:04.:01:07.

which we have had about six since the war, and our skills training is

:01:08.:01:14.

among the worst in Western Europe? There will be plenty more to be

:01:15.:01:18.

announced tomorrow in what is really a discussion document in the

:01:19.:01:22.

preparation of an industrial strategy which we intend to launch

:01:23.:01:26.

properly later in the year. Let's look at skills. You are allocating

:01:27.:01:35.

117 of funding to establish institutes of technology. How many?

:01:36.:01:41.

The exact number is to be agreed, but the spend is there, and it will

:01:42.:01:47.

be on top of what we are doing to the university, technical

:01:48.:01:50.

colleges... How many were lit bio create? We don't know exactly, but

:01:51.:01:56.

we want to put them in areas where young people are performing under

:01:57.:02:00.

the national average. But if you don't know how many, what is the

:02:01.:02:07.

basis of 170 million? That is the amount the Treasury have released.

:02:08.:02:11.

The something that is very important, we are agreed we need to

:02:12.:02:16.

devote more resources to vocational training and get it on a par with

:02:17.:02:22.

academic qualifications. I looked on the website of my old university,

:02:23.:02:28.

the University of Glasgow, the Russell group universities. Its

:02:29.:02:33.

spending budget every year is over 600 million. That's one University.

:02:34.:02:41.

And yet you have a mere 170 million foreign unspecified number of

:02:42.:02:46.

institutes of technology. It hasn't got equality with the academics? You

:02:47.:02:51.

have to remember that just as you have quoted figures from Glasgow

:02:52.:02:55.

University there are further education colleges all over the

:02:56.:02:59.

country. The government is already spending on 16 to 19-year-olds. But

:03:00.:03:08.

also, we are going to be adding... This is new money that is all to the

:03:09.:03:13.

good, because we are already spending a lot. We have already

:03:14.:03:18.

created 2 million more apprentices since 2010. That many are not in

:03:19.:03:22.

what we would call the stem skills, and a lot come nowhere near what the

:03:23.:03:27.

Dutch, Germans and Austrians would have. I'm not clear how another 170

:03:28.:03:33.

million would do. You said it is more than skills. In what way is

:03:34.:03:38.

this industrial strategy different from what Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne

:03:39.:03:49.

did before? It's different because it is involving every single

:03:50.:03:51.

government department, and bringing together everything that government

:03:52.:03:54.

does in a bid to make Britain more competitive as it disengages from

:03:55.:03:57.

the European Union. That is what the last Labour government did. They

:03:58.:04:03.

will much more targeted interventions. Under the Labour

:04:04.:04:07.

government, the auto industry got some benefit. A few more sectors

:04:08.:04:12.

were broached under the coalition government. This is all about

:04:13.:04:16.

communities all over the country, some of whom have fallen behind in

:04:17.:04:21.

terms of wage growth and good jobs. The Prime Minister has already

:04:22.:04:27.

announced 2 billion as a research and development priority in specific

:04:28.:04:34.

technologies, robotics, artificial intelligence, medical technology,

:04:35.:04:38.

satellites... So you are doing what has been done before. There is

:04:39.:04:43.

nothing new about this. Wait until tomorrow, because there will be some

:04:44.:04:48.

new strands emerging. It is the beginning of the dialogue with

:04:49.:04:51.

industry and with workers, and the responses will be invited up until

:04:52.:04:58.

April. That will inform a wider strategy that goes beyond skills. I

:04:59.:05:03.

have moved on to beyond them. I'm slightly puzzled as to how the

:05:04.:05:08.

government knows where to invest in robotics, when it can't even provide

:05:09.:05:14.

the NHS with a decent IT system. Discuss. I have to say I find it

:05:15.:05:19.

bizarre that the government is making an announcement about an

:05:20.:05:22.

amount of money and don't know where it's going. This is typical of all

:05:23.:05:27.

governments over all political shoes, which is total disregard for

:05:28.:05:33.

technical education, so different from Germany, who actually invest in

:05:34.:05:41.

the technological side. Germany has a long history. We want to emulate

:05:42.:05:47.

some of the best of what German companies do. Siemens sponsor

:05:48.:05:52.

primary schools, for example. We want to get a dialogue on with

:05:53.:05:58.

business. We don't want to decide where this money is going. By the

:05:59.:06:03.

way, it was 4.7 billion that the government has agreed to invest in

:06:04.:06:08.

science and research, which is the most significant increase in

:06:09.:06:12.

decades. Can you remind us what happened in Northern Ireland, when

:06:13.:06:16.

the government invested money in state-of-the-art technology for

:06:17.:06:20.

energy? No one needs to be reminded of that, and that is not what we are

:06:21.:06:27.

doing. We are inviting business and industry to advise where that money

:06:28.:06:32.

is best spent. That's very different from government deciding that a

:06:33.:06:38.

particular technology is for the future. The government's chief

:06:39.:06:43.

scientific adviser has determined that we will invest a huge amount in

:06:44.:06:48.

battery technology, which should benefit the electric car industry,

:06:49.:06:53.

and... This is taxpayers' money. Who gets it? Ultimately, business will

:06:54.:07:00.

get it, but often only when there is a considerable amount of private

:07:01.:07:05.

sector finance also drawn in. But who is held to account? Various

:07:06.:07:13.

government departments at local authorities will hold this list to

:07:14.:07:18.

account. A lot of it is about releasing private capital as well.

:07:19.:07:24.

Thank you very much. This week, the Supreme Court, I think we know the

:07:25.:07:32.

ruling is coming on Tuesday. And the expectation is that the judges will

:07:33.:07:36.

say Parliament will have to vote to trigger. Is this all much ado about

:07:37.:07:41.

nothing? Parliament will vote to trigger, and the government will win

:07:42.:07:45.

in the Lords and the Commons by substantial majorities, and it will

:07:46.:07:49.

be triggered? Completely. We've known that. Parliament is voted.

:07:50.:07:54.

Everyone is pretty confident that the Supreme Court will uphold the

:07:55.:07:58.

High Court's decision and say it has to go to MPs. There will be a bit of

:07:59.:08:07.

toing and froing among MPs on amendments. You heard Diane Abbott's

:08:08.:08:12.

slightly car crash interview there. The Lib Dems may throw something in,

:08:13.:08:16.

but we will trigger Article 50 by the end of March. If it also says

:08:17.:08:23.

that the roll of Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast should be picked up,

:08:24.:08:28.

that could complicate matters. Absolutely. That could delay the

:08:29.:08:32.

planned triggering of Article 50 before the end of March. Not what

:08:33.:08:37.

they say about the Westminster Parliament, because it is clear that

:08:38.:08:42.

it was. I never understood the furore about that original judgment,

:08:43.:08:47.

because every MP made it clear they wouldn't block it. Even though Diane

:08:48.:08:51.

Abbott was evasive on several fronts, she said they wouldn't block

:08:52.:08:57.

it. You are right, if they give a vote, or give some authorisation for

:08:58.:09:01.

the Scottish Parliament and other devolved assemblies, that might

:09:02.:09:06.

delay the whole sequence. That is the only significant thing to watch

:09:07.:09:12.

out for. Watch out on Tuesday. Mrs May goes to Washington. It will be

:09:13.:09:17.

another movie in the making! I would suggest that she has a tricky line

:09:18.:09:22.

to follow. She has got to be seen to be taking advantage of the fact that

:09:23.:09:27.

there is a very pro-British, pro-Brexit president in the Oval

:09:28.:09:32.

Office, who I am told is prepared to expend political capital on this.

:09:33.:09:36.

But on the other hand, to make sure that she is not what we used to call

:09:37.:09:49.

Mr Blair, George Bush's poodle. It is very difficult, and who would not

:09:50.:09:52.

want to be a fly on the wall in that meeting! I can't think of anyone in

:09:53.:09:56.

the world who would despise Mr Trump more than Mrs May, and for him, he

:09:57.:10:01.

dislikes any woman who does not look like a supermodel, no disrespected

:10:02.:10:12.

Mrs May. Most of it is actually anti-EU, and I think we should

:10:13.:10:15.

capitalise it. Let's get the Queen to earn her money, roll out the red

:10:16.:10:20.

carpet, invite him to dinner, spend the night, what ever we need...

:10:21.:10:28.

Trump at Balmoral! Here is the issue, because the agenda is, as we

:10:29.:10:32.

heard from Ted Malloch earlier, that this is not an administration that

:10:33.:10:38.

has much time for the EU, EU integration or Germany. I think

:10:39.:10:41.

Germany will be the second biggest loser to begin with. They will not

:10:42.:10:46.

even give a date for Angela Merkel to meet the president. This is an

:10:47.:10:54.

opportunity for Mrs May... It is a huge. It could sideline talks of the

:10:55.:11:03.

punishment beating from Germany. The Trump presidency has completely

:11:04.:11:09.

changed the field on Brexit. Along came Donald Trump, and Theresa May

:11:10.:11:13.

has this incredible opportunity here. Not of her making, but she has

:11:14.:11:19.

played her cards well. To an officially be the EU emissary to

:11:20.:11:24.

Washington, to get some sort of broker going. That gives us huge

:11:25.:11:29.

extra leveraged in the Brexit negotiations. People around the

:11:30.:11:33.

world think Germany as a currency manipulator, that it is benefiting

:11:34.:11:38.

from an underpriced euro, hence the huge surplus it runs of America, and

:11:39.:11:42.

they think it is disgraceful that a country that runs a massive budget

:11:43.:11:48.

surplus spends only 1.2% of its GDP on defence, and America runs a

:11:49.:11:53.

massive deficit and needs to spend a lot more. He's going for Germany.

:11:54.:11:59.

And what a massive shift. I think Obama was quite open, in a farewell

:12:00.:12:04.

interview, that he felt closer to Merkel than any other European

:12:05.:12:09.

leader. And Jamie kind of reflected that in our discussion. Yes, that's

:12:10.:12:16.

very interesting discussion. I think she was the last person he spoke to

:12:17.:12:20.

in the White House, Obama. And now you are getting the onslaught from

:12:21.:12:27.

Trump. This Thatcher- Reagan imagery is dangerous, though. Blair was

:12:28.:12:31.

hypnotised by it and was too scared to criticise Bush, because he wanted

:12:32.:12:36.

to be seen in that light, and we know where that led. Cameron

:12:37.:12:42.

similarly with Obama, which presented him with problems, as

:12:43.:12:45.

Obama didn't regard him as his number one pin up in Europe. I would

:12:46.:12:52.

put a note of caution in there about the Thatcher - Reagan parallel.

:12:53.:12:57.

Everything Trump is doing now is different from before, so Mrs May

:12:58.:13:02.

should not have any of these previous relationships in her mind.

:13:03.:13:08.

That is not entirely true. Donald Trump aches to be the new Ronald

:13:09.:13:15.

Reagan. He may be impeached first! He sees her as the new Margaret

:13:16.:13:19.

Thatcher, and that may her leveraged with him. Thank you.

:13:20.:13:27.

We'll be back here at the same time next week, and you can catch up

:13:28.:13:32.

on all the latest political news on the Daily Politics,

:13:33.:13:34.

In the meantime, remember - if it's Sunday,

:13:35.:13:38.

It's just pain, but it doesn't feel like pain,

:13:39.:14:16.

it feels much more violent, dark and exciting.

:14:17.:14:39.

Join Michael Buerk as he explores the dishes fit for kings and queens.

:14:40.:14:45.

When it comes to extravagance, few monarchs can compete with George IV.

:14:46.:14:49.

If that was for breakfast, I dread to think what he had for dinner.

:14:50.:14:53.

Andrew Neil and guests including shadow home secretary Diane Abbott provide reaction to Theresa May's Brexit speech and look at the inauguration of US president Donald Trump. On the political panel are Julia Hartley-Brewer of talkRadio, Tom Newton Dunn of the Sun and broadcaster and journalist Steve Richards.