22/01/2017 Sunday Politics North West


22/01/2017

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It's Sunday morning, and this is the Sunday Politics.

:00:38.:00:40.

Theresa May will be the first foreign leader to visit US

:00:41.:00:43.

President Donald Trump this week - she's promised to hold "very

:00:44.:00:46.

frank" conversations with the new and controversial

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Speaking of the 45th President of America,

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we'll be looking at what the Trump presidency could hold

:00:57.:00:59.

in store for Britain and the rest of the world.

:01:00.:01:06.

And with the Supreme Court expected to say that Parliament should

:01:07.:01:09.

have a vote before the Brexit process begins, we'll ask

:01:10.:01:12.

Shadow Home Secretary Diane Abbott what Labour will do next.

:01:13.:01:17.

Will leaving the single market bear fruit?

:01:18.:01:35.

And to talk about all of that and more, I'm joined by three

:01:36.:01:38.

journalists who, in an era of so-called fake news, can be

:01:39.:01:41.

relied upon for their accuracy, their impartiality -

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and their willingness to come to the studio

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It's Steve Richards, Julia Hartley-Brewer

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and Tom Newton Dunn, and during the programme they'll be

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tweeting as often as the 45th President of the USA in the middle

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So - the Prime Minister has been appearing on the BBC this morning.

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She was mostly talking about Donald Trump and Brexit,

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but she was also asked about a story on the front of this

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It's reported that an unarmed Trident missile test fired

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from the submarine HMS Vengeance near the Florida coast in June

:02:25.:02:30.

The paper says the incident took place weeks before a crucial Commons

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Well, let's have listen to Theresa May talking

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The issue that we were talking about in the House of Commons

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It was about whether or not we should renew Trident,

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whether we should look to the future and have a replacement Trident.

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That's what we were talking about in the House of Commons.

:02:56.:02:58.

That's what the House of Commons voted for.

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He doesn't want to defend our country with an independent

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There are tests that take place all the time, regularly,

:03:06.:03:12.

What we were talking about in that debate that took place...

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I'm not going to get an answer to this.

:03:22.:03:28.

Tom, it was clear this was going to come up this morning. It is on the

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front page of the Sunday Times. It would seem to me the Prime Minister

:03:36.:03:39.

wasn't properly briefed on how to reply. I think she probably was, but

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the Prime Minister we now have doesn't necessarily answer all

:03:47.:03:49.

questions in the straightest way. She didn't answer that one and all.

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Unlike previous ones? She made it quite clear she was briefed. You

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read between the Theresa May lines. By simply not answering Andrew Marr

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four times, it is obvious she knew, and that she knew before she went

:04:09.:04:12.

into the House of Commons and urged everyone to renew the ?40 billion

:04:13.:04:19.

replacement programme. Of course it is an embarrassment, but does it

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have political legs? I don't think so. She didn't mislead the Commons.

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If she wanted to close it down, the answer should have been, these are

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matters of national security. There's nothing more important in

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that than our nuclear deterrent. I'm not prepared to talk about testing.

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End of. But she didn't. Maybe you should be briefing her. That's a

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good answer. She is an interesting interviewee. She shows it when she

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is nervous. She was transparently uneasy answering those questions,

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and the fact she didn't answer it definitively suggests she did know

:04:59.:05:04.

and didn't want to say it, and she answered awkwardly. But how wider

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point, that the House of Commons voted for the renewal of Trident,

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suggests to me that in the broader sweep of things, this will not run,

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because if there was another vote, I would suggest she'd win it again.

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But it is an embarrassment and she handled it with a transparent

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awkwardness. She said that the tests go on all the time, but not of the

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missiles. Does it not show that when the Prime Minister leaves her

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comfort zone of Home Office affairs or related matters, she often

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struggles. We've seen it under questioning from Mr Corbyn even, and

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we saw it again today. Absolutely. Tests of various aspects of the

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missiles go on all the time, but there's only been five since 2000.

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What you described wouldn't have worked, because in previous tests

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they have always been very public about it. Look how well our missiles

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work! She may not have misled Parliament, but she may not have

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known about it. If she didn't know, does Michael Fallon still have a job

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on Monday? Should Parliament know about a test that doesn't work? Some

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would say absolutely not. Our deterrent is there to deter people

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from attacking us. If they know that we are hitting the United States by

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mistake rather than the Atlantic Ocean, then... There is such a thing

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as national security, and telling all the bad guys about where we are

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going wrong may not be a good idea. It was her first statement as Prime

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Minister to put her case for renewal, to have the vote on

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Trident, and in that context, it is significant not to say anything. If

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anyone knows where the missile landed, give us a call!

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So Donald Trump's inauguration day closed with him dancing

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to Frank Sinatra's My Way, and whatever your view on the 45th

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President of the United States he certainly did do it his way.

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Not for him the idealistic call for national unity -

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instead he used Friday's inaugural address to launch a blistering

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attack on the dark state of the nation and the political

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class, and to promise to take his uncompromising approach

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from the campaign trail to the White House.

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Here's Adam Fleming, with a reminder of how

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First, dropping by for a cup of tea and a slightly awkward exchange

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Then, friends, foes and predecessors watched

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I, Donald John Trump, do solemnly swear...

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The crowds seemed smaller than previous inaugurations,

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the speech tougher then any previous incoming president.

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From this day forth, it's going to be only America first.

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In the meantime, there were sporadic protests in Washington, DC.

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Opponents made their voices heard around the world too.

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The President, who'd criticised the work of

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the intelligence agencies, fitted in a visit to the CIA.

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There is nobody that feels stronger about the intelligence community

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And, back at the office, in the dark, a signature signalled

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the end of the Obama era and the dawn of Trump.

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So, as you heard there, President Trump used his

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inauguration to repeat his campaign promise to put "America first"

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in all his decisions, and offered some hints of what to expect

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He talked of in America in carnage, to be rebuilt by American hands and

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American Labour. President Trump has already started to dismantle key

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parts of the Obama Legacy, including the unwinding of the affordable care

:09:47.:09:51.

act, and the siding of the climate action plan to tackle global

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warning. Little to say about foreign policy, but promised to eradicate

:09:58.:10:01.

Islamic terrorism from the face of the Earth, insisting he would

:10:02.:10:06.

restore the US military to unquestioning dominance. He also

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said the US would develop a state missile defence system to deal with

:10:13.:10:16.

threats he sees from Iran and North Korea. In a statement that painted a

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bleak picture of the country he now runs, he said his would be a law and

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order Administration, and he would keep the innocents safe by building

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the border war with Mexico. One thing he didn't mention, for the

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first time ever, there is a Eurosceptic in the oval office, who

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is also an enthusiast for Brexit. We're joined now by Ted Malloch -

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he's a Trump supporter who's been tipped as the president's

:10:44.:10:46.

choice for US ambassador to the EU, and he's

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just flown back from Washington. And by James Rubin -

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he's a democrat who served Let's start with that last point I

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made in the voice over there. We now have a Eurosceptic in the oval

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office. He is pro-Brexit and not keen on further European Union

:11:10.:11:12.

integration. What are the implications of that? First of all,

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a renewal of the US- UK special relationship. You see the Prime

:11:19.:11:23.

Minister already going to build and rebuild this relationship. Already,

:11:24.:11:27.

the bust of Winston Churchill is back in the oval office.

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Interestingly, Martin Luther King's bust is also there, so there is an

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act of unity in that first movement of dusts. Donald Trump will be

:11:38.:11:43.

oriented between bilateral relationships and not multilateral

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or supernatural. Supranational full. What are the implications of someone

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in the White House now not believing in it? I think we are present in the

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unravelling of America's leadership of the West. There is now a thing

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called the west that America has led since the end of World War II,

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creating supranational - we just heard supernatural! These

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institutions were created. With American leadership, the world was

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at peace in Europe, and the world grew increasingly democratic and

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prosperous. Wars were averted that could be extremely costly. When

:12:36.:12:40.

something works in diplomacy, you don't really understand what the

:12:41.:12:44.

consequences could have been. I think we've got complacent. The new

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president is taking advantage of that. It is a terrible tragedy that

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so many in the West take for granted the successful leadership and

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institutions we have built. You could argue, as James Rubin has

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argued in some articles, that... Will Mr Trump's America be more

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involved in the world than the Obama won? Or will it continue the process

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with running shoes on that began with Mr Obama? President Obama

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stepped back from American leadership. He withdrew from the

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world. He had a horrendous eight years in office, and American powers

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have diminished everywhere in the world, not just in Europe. That

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power will reassert. The focus will be on America first, but there are

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foreign interests around the world... How does it reassert itself

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around the world? I think the institutions will be recreated. Some

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may be taken down. There could be some new ones. I think Nato itself,

:13:56.:14:01.

and certainly the Defence Secretary will have discussions with Donald

:14:02.:14:05.

Trump about how Nato can be reshaped, and maybe there will be

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more burden sharing. That is an important thing for him. You are

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tipped to be the US ambassador to Brussels, to the EU, and we are

:14:15.:14:18.

still waiting to hear if that will happen. Is it true to say that Mr

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Trump does not believe in EU integration? I think you made that

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clear in the speech. He talked about supranational. He does not believe

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in those kinds of organisations. He is investing himself in bilateral

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relationships, the first of which will be with the UK. So we have a

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president who does not believe in EU integration and has been highly

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critical of Nato. Do the people he has appointed to defend, Secretary

:14:57.:15:01.

of State, national security, do you think that will temper this

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anti-NATO wretched? Will he come round to a more pro-NATO situation?

:15:06.:15:13.

I think those of us who care about America's situation in the world

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will come in to miss President Obama a lot. I think the Secretary of

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State and the faculty of defence will limit the damage and will urge

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him not to take formal steps to unravel this most powerful and most

:15:29.:15:33.

successful alliance in history, the Nato alliance. But the damage is

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already being done. When you are the leader of the West, leadership means

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you are persuading, encouraging, bolstering your leadership and these

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institutions by the way you speak. Millions, if not hundreds of

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millions of people, have now heard the US say that what they care about

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is within their borders. What do you say to that? It is such

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an overstatement. The point is that Donald Trump is in a Jacksonian

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tradition of national populism. He is appealing to the people first.

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The other day, I was sitting below this page during the address, and he

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said, everyone sitting behind me as part of the problem. Everyone in

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front of me, the crowd and the crowd on television, is part of the

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solution, so we are giving the Government back to the people. That

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emphasis is going to change American life, including American

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International relations. It doesn't moving the leak back -- it doesn't

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mean we are moving out of Nato, it simply means we will put our

:16:49.:16:53.

national interests first. There were echoes of Andrew Jackson's

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inauguration address of 1820. That night, the Jacksonians trashed the

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White House, but Mr Trump's people didn't do that, so there is a

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difference there. He also said something else in the address - that

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protectionism would lead to prosperity. I would suggest there is

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no evidence for that in the post-war world. He talked about protecting

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the American worker, American jobs, the American economy. I actually

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think that Donald Trump will not turn out to be a protectionist. If

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you read the heart of the deal... This is referring to two Republican

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senators who introduce massive tariffs in the Hoover

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administration. Exactly. If you read The Art Of The Deal, you will see

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how Donald Trump deals with individuals and countries. There is

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a lot of bluster, positioning, and I think you already see this in

:17:57.:18:02.

bringing jobs by the United States. Things are going to change. Let's

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also deal with this proposition. China is the biggest loser of this

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election result. Let me say this: The first time in American history

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and American president has set forth his view of the world, and it is a

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mercantile view of the world, who makes more money, who gets more

:18:30.:18:33.

trade, it doesn't look at the shared values, leadership and defends the

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world needs. The art of the deal has no application to America's

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leadership of the world, that's what we're learning. You can be a great

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businessman and make great real estate deals - whether he did not is

:18:47.:18:50.

debatable - but it has nothing to do with inspiring shared values from

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the West. You saying China may lose, because he may pressure them to

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reduce their trade deficit with the US. They may or may not. We may both

:19:00.:19:05.

lose. Right now, his Secretary of State has said, and I think he will

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walk this back when he is brief, that they will prevent the Chinese

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from entering these islands in the South China Sea. If they were to do

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that, it would be a blockade, and there would be a shooting war

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between the United States and China, so US - China relations are the most

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important bilateral relationship of the United States, and they don't

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lend themselves to the bluff and bluster that may have worked when

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you are trying to get a big building on second Ave in Manhattan. Is China

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the biggest loser? I think the Chinese have a lot to lose. Gigi and

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Ping was in Davos this week -- Xi Jin Ping was in Davos.

:19:57.:20:02.

Is Germany the second biggest loser in the sense that I understand he

:20:03.:20:08.

hasn't agreed time to see Angela Merkel yet, also that those close to

:20:09.:20:16.

him believe that Germany is guilty of currency manipulation by adopting

:20:17.:20:18.

a weak your row instead of the strong Deutschmark, and that that is

:20:19.:20:23.

why they are running a huge balance of payments surplus with the United

:20:24.:20:29.

States. American - German relations may not be great. There is a point

:20:30.:20:34.

of view throughout Europe. You only have to talk to the southern

:20:35.:20:38.

Europeans about this question. It seems like the euro has been aligned

:20:39.:20:42.

to benefit Germany. Joe Stiglitz, the famous left of centre Democrat

:20:43.:20:48.

economist, made the same case in a recent book. In this case, I think

:20:49.:20:55.

Germany will be put under the spotlight. Angela Merkel has shown

:20:56.:20:59.

herself to be the most respected and the most successful leader in

:21:00.:21:04.

Europe. We who care about the West, who care about the shared values of

:21:05.:21:09.

the West, should pray and hope that she is re-elected. This isn't about

:21:10.:21:14.

dollars and cents. We're living in a time whether Russian leader has

:21:15.:21:19.

another country in Europe and for some inexplicable reason, the

:21:20.:21:24.

American president, who can use his insult diplomacy on everyone,

:21:25.:21:27.

including Mrs Merkel, the only person he can't seem to find

:21:28.:21:34.

anything to criticise about is Mr Putin. There are things more

:21:35.:21:37.

important than the actual details of your currency. There are things like

:21:38.:21:42.

preventing another war in Europe, preventing a war between the Chinese

:21:43.:21:44.

and the US. You talk about the Trident missile all morning, nuclear

:21:45.:21:51.

deterrence is extremely important. It doesn't lend itself to the bluff

:21:52.:21:57.

and bluster of a real estate deal. I understand all that, but the fact we

:21:58.:22:00.

are even talking about these things shows the new world we are moving

:22:01.:22:04.

into. I'd like to get you both to react to this. This is a man that

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ended the Bush Dynasty, a man that beat the Clinton machine. In his

:22:10.:22:16.

inauguration, not only did he not reach out to the Democrats, he

:22:17.:22:19.

didn't even mention the Republicans. These are changed days for us. They

:22:20.:22:26.

are, and change can be good or disastrous. I'm worried that it's

:22:27.:22:29.

easy in the world of diplomacy and in them -- for the leadership of the

:22:30.:22:36.

United States to break relationships and ruin alliances. These are things

:22:37.:22:40.

that were carefully nurtured. George Schultz, the American Secretary of

:22:41.:22:47.

State under Reagan talked about gardening, the slow, careful

:22:48.:22:51.

creation of a place with bilateral relationships that were blossoming

:22:52.:22:56.

and flowering multilateral relationships that take decades to

:22:57.:22:59.

create, and he will throw them away in a matter of days. The final

:23:00.:23:05.

word... I work for George Schultz. He was a Marine who stood up

:23:06.:23:09.

America, defended America, who would be in favour of many of the things

:23:10.:23:13.

that Donald Trump and the tramp Administration... Give him a call.

:23:14.:23:19.

His top aide macs that I've spoken to are appalled by Mr Trump's

:23:20.:23:23.

abdication of leadership. He is going to our radically -- he's going

:23:24.:23:31.

to eradicate extremist Islam from the face of the year. Is that

:23:32.:23:36.

realistic? I know people in the national security realm have worked

:23:37.:23:39.

on a plan. They say they will have such a plan in some detail within 90

:23:40.:23:46.

days. Lets hope they succeed. We have run out of time. As a issues.

:23:47.:23:51.

Thank you, both. -- fascinating issues.

:23:52.:23:55.

So Theresa May promised a big speech on Brexit, and this week -

:23:56.:23:58.

perhaps against expectation - she delivered, trying to answer

:23:59.:24:00.

claims that the government didn't have a plan with an explicit

:24:01.:24:03.

wish-list of what she hopes to achieve in negotiations with the EU.

:24:04.:24:06.

To her allies it was ambitious, bold, optimistic -

:24:07.:24:08.

to her opponents it was full of contradictions

:24:09.:24:10.

Here's Adam again, with a reminder of the speech and how

:24:11.:24:13.

There are speeches, and there are speeches.

:24:14.:24:18.

Like Theresa May's 12 principles for a Brexit deal leading

:24:19.:24:22.

to the UK fully out of the EU but still friendly in terms

:24:23.:24:25.

This agreement should allow for the freest possible trade

:24:26.:24:29.

in goods and services between Britain and the EU's member states.

:24:30.:24:31.

It should give British companies the maximum

:24:32.:24:37.

operate within European markets and let European businesses do

:24:38.:24:40.

She also said no deal would be better than the wrong deal,

:24:41.:24:48.

We want to test what people think about what she's just said.

:24:49.:25:04.

Do we have any of our future negotiating

:25:05.:25:06.

As the European Parliament voted for its new

:25:07.:25:11.

president, its chief negotiator sounded off.

:25:12.:25:19.

Saying, OK, if our European counterparts don't accept

:25:20.:25:21.

it, we're going to make from Britain a sort

:25:22.:25:24.

of free zone or tax haven, I

:25:25.:25:26.

The Prime Minister of Malta, the country that's assumed the EU's

:25:27.:25:33.

rotating presidency, spoke in sorrow and a bit of anger.

:25:34.:25:36.

We want a fair deal for the United Kingdom, but

:25:37.:25:40.

that deal necessarily needs to be inferior to membership.

:25:41.:25:50.

Next, let's hear from some enthusiastic

:25:51.:25:52.

leavers, like, I don't know, the Daily Mail?

:25:53.:25:57.

The paper lapped it up with this adoring front page.

:25:58.:26:01.

For Brexiteers, it was all manna from heaven.

:26:02.:26:05.

I think today means we are a big step closer to becoming

:26:06.:26:07.

an independent country again, with control of our own laws,

:26:08.:26:10.

I was chuckling at some of it, to be honest, because

:26:11.:26:16.

There were various phrases there which I've used myself again and

:26:17.:26:20.

Do we have any of those so-called Remoaners?

:26:21.:26:25.

There will, at the end of this deal process,

:26:26.:26:27.

so politicians get to vote on the stitch-up, but

:26:28.:26:31.

We take the view as Liberal Democrats that

:26:32.:26:34.

if this process started with democracy last June,

:26:35.:26:36.

We trusted the people with departure, we must trust them

:26:37.:26:40.

Do we have anyone from Labour, or are you all

:26:41.:26:46.

watching it in a small room somewhere?

:26:47.:26:48.

Throughout the speech, there seemed to be an implied threat that

:26:49.:26:56.

somewhere along the line, if all her optimism of a deal

:26:57.:26:59.

with the European Union didn't work, we would move

:27:00.:27:01.

into a low-tax, corporate taxation, bargain-basement economy on the

:27:02.:27:03.

I think she needs to be a bit clearer about what

:27:04.:27:06.

The Labour leader suggested he'd tell

:27:07.:27:14.

his MPs to vote in favour of starting a Brexit process if

:27:15.:27:17.

Parliament was given the choice, sparking a mini pre-revolt among

:27:18.:27:19.

Finally, do we have anyone from big business here?

:27:20.:27:25.

Of course, your all in Davos at the World Economic

:27:26.:27:34.

Clarity, first of all, really codified what many of us have been

:27:35.:27:44.

anticipating since the referendum result,

:27:45.:27:46.

particularly around the

:27:47.:27:47.

I think what we've also seen today is the Government's

:27:48.:27:51.

willingness to put a bit of edge into the negotiating dynamic, and I

:27:52.:27:54.

Trade negotiations are negotiations, and you have to lay out, and you

:27:55.:27:59.

have to be pretty tough to get what you want.

:28:00.:28:01.

Although some business people on the slopes speculated

:28:02.:28:03.

about moving some of their operations out of Brexit Britain.

:28:04.:28:05.

We saw there the instant reaction of Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn,

:28:06.:28:24.

but how will the party respond to the challenge posed by Brexit

:28:25.:28:27.

Well, I'm joined now by the Shadow Home Secretary, Diane Abbott.

:28:28.:28:30.

People know that Ukip and the Tories are for Brexit. The Lib Dems are

:28:31.:28:39.

four remain. What is Labour for? For respecting the result of the

:28:40.:28:44.

referendum. It was a 72% turnout, very high for an election of that

:28:45.:28:48.

nature, and we believe you have to respect that result. You couldn't

:28:49.:28:52.

have a situation where people like Tim Farron are saying to people,

:28:53.:28:56.

millions of people, sorry, you got it wrong, we in London no better.

:28:57.:28:59.

However, how the Tories go forward from here has to be subject to

:29:00.:29:07.

parliamentary scrutiny. Is it Shadow Cabinet policy to vote for the

:29:08.:29:12.

triggering of Article 50? Our policy is not to block Article 50. That is

:29:13.:29:15.

what the leader was saying this morning. So are you for it? Our

:29:16.:29:22.

policy is not to block it. You are talking about voting for it. We

:29:23.:29:27.

don't know what the Supreme Court is going to say, and we don't know what

:29:28.:29:33.

legislation Government will bring forward, and we don't know what

:29:34.:29:36.

amendment we will move, but we're clear that we will not vote to block

:29:37.:29:43.

it. OK, so you won't bow to stop it, but you could abstain? No, what we

:29:44.:29:51.

will do... Either you vote for or against all you abstain. There are

:29:52.:29:55.

too many unanswered questions. For instance, the position of EU

:29:56.:29:58.

migrants working and living in this country. You may not get the answer

:29:59.:30:03.

to that before Article 50 comes before the Commons, so what would

:30:04.:30:07.

you do then? We are giving to amend it. We can only tell you exactly how

:30:08.:30:12.

we will amend it when we understand what sort of legislation the

:30:13.:30:15.

Government is putting forward, and in the course of moving those

:30:16.:30:19.

amendments, we will ask the questions that the people of Britain

:30:20.:30:23.

whether they voted to leave remain want answered.

:30:24.:30:28.

When you come to a collective view, will there be a three line whip? I

:30:29.:30:37.

can't tell you, because we have not seen the government 's legislation.

:30:38.:30:42.

But when you see it, you will come to a collective view. Many regard

:30:43.:30:48.

this as extremely important. Will there be a three line whip on

:30:49.:30:53.

Labour's collective view? Because it is important, we shouldn't get ahead

:30:54.:30:59.

of ourselves. When we see what the Supreme Court says, and crucially,

:31:00.:31:02.

when we see what the government position is, you will hear what the

:31:03.:31:07.

whipping is. Will shadow ministers be able to defy any three line whip

:31:08.:31:14.

on this? That is not normally the case. But they did on an early vote

:31:15.:31:19.

that the government introduced on Article 50. Those who voted against

:31:20.:31:25.

it are still there. In the Blair years, you certainly couldn't defy a

:31:26.:31:29.

three line whip. We will see what happens going forward. I remember

:31:30.:31:36.

when the Tories were hopelessly divided over the EU. All these

:31:37.:31:39.

Maastricht votes and an list arguments. Now it is Labour. Just

:31:40.:31:46.

another symptom of Mr Corbyn's poor leadership. Not at all. Two thirds

:31:47.:31:58.

voted to leave, a third to remain. We are seeking to bring the country

:31:59.:32:03.

and the party together. We will do that by pointing out how disastrous

:32:04.:32:08.

a Tory Brexit would be. Meanwhile, around 80 Labour MPs will defy a

:32:09.:32:18.

three line whip. It's too early to say that. Will you publish what you

:32:19.:32:22.

believe the negotiating goal should be? We are clear on it. We think

:32:23.:32:28.

that the economy, jobs and living standards should be the priority.

:32:29.:32:34.

What Theresa May is saying is that holding her party together is her

:32:35.:32:39.

priority. She is putting party above country. Does Labour think we should

:32:40.:32:46.

remain members of the single market? Ideally, in terms of jobs and the

:32:47.:32:50.

economy, of course. Ritt -ish business thinks that as well. Is

:32:51.:32:55.

Labour policy that we should remain a member of the single market?

:32:56.:33:00.

Labour leaves that jobs and the economy comes first, and if they

:33:01.:33:04.

come first, you would want to remain part of the single market. But to

:33:05.:33:11.

remain a member? Jobs and the economy comes first, and to do that,

:33:12.:33:18.

ideally, guess. So with that, comes free movement of people, the

:33:19.:33:23.

jurisdiction of the European, and a multi-million never shipped thief.

:33:24.:33:29.

Is Labour prepared to pay that? Money is neither here nor there.

:33:30.:33:35.

Because the Tories will be asked to pay a lot of money... The EU has

:33:36.:33:44.

made it clear that you cannot have... I am asking for Labour's

:33:45.:33:51.

position. Our position is rooted in the reality, and the reality is that

:33:52.:33:56.

you cannot have the benefits of the member of the European Union,

:33:57.:34:00.

including being a member of the single market, without

:34:01.:34:03.

responsibility, including free movement of people. Free movement,

:34:04.:34:07.

is remaining under the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. Is

:34:08.:34:16.

that the Labour position? You've said that Labour wants to remain a

:34:17.:34:21.

member of the single market. That is the price tag that comes with it.

:34:22.:34:25.

Does Labour agree with paying that price tag? We are not pre-empting

:34:26.:34:31.

negotiation. Our goals are protect jobs and the British economy. Is it

:34:32.:34:36.

Labour's position that we remain a member of the customs union? Well,

:34:37.:34:45.

if we don't, I don't see how Theresa May can keep our promises and has

:34:46.:34:55.

unfettered access... You said Labour's position was clear. It is!

:34:56.:35:04.

It is clear that Theresa May... I am not asking about Theresa May. Is it

:35:05.:35:10.

Labour's position to remain a member of the customs union? It is Labour's

:35:11.:35:16.

position to do what is right for British industry. Depending on how

:35:17.:35:20.

the negotiations go, it may prove that coming out of the customs

:35:21.:35:25.

union, as Theresa May has indicated she wants to do, could prove

:35:26.:35:31.

catastrophic, and could actually destroy some of her promises. You do

:35:32.:35:36.

accept that if we are member of the customs union, we cannot do our own

:35:37.:35:43.

free trade deals? What free trade deals are you talking about? The

:35:44.:35:49.

ones that Labour might want to do in the future. First, we have to

:35:50.:35:54.

protect British jobs and British industries. If you are talking about

:35:55.:35:59.

free trade deals with Donald Trump, the danger is that Theresa May will

:36:00.:36:03.

get drawn into a free-trade deal with America that will open up the

:36:04.:36:10.

NHS to American corporate... The cards are in Theresa May's hands. If

:36:11.:36:16.

she takes us out of the single market, if she takes us out of the

:36:17.:36:20.

customs union, we will have to deal with that. How big a crisis for

:36:21.:36:25.

Jeremy Corbyn will be if Labour loses both by-elections in February.

:36:26.:36:31.

I don't believe we will lose both. But if he did? I am not anticipating

:36:32.:36:40.

that. Is Labour lost two seats in a midterm of a Tory government, would

:36:41.:36:44.

that be business as usual? I'm not prepared to see us lose those seats,

:36:45.:36:48.

so I will not talk about something that will not happen. Thank you.

:36:49.:36:52.

You're watching the Sunday Politics.

:36:53.:36:53.

We say goodbye to viewers in Scotland, who leave us now

:36:54.:36:56.

Coming up here in 20 minutes, The Week Ahead,

:36:57.:36:59.

when we'll be talking to Business Minister Margot James

:37:00.:37:01.

about the government's new industrial strategy and that

:37:02.:37:04.

crucial Supreme Court ruling on Brexit.

:37:05.:37:07.

First, though, the Sunday Politics where you are.

:37:08.:37:20.

Coming up in the north-west... A bright future for global trade or

:37:21.:37:29.

simply bananas? Will leaving the single market beer any fruit? Are

:37:30.:37:34.

you happy with the way it is going? Yes, totally happy at the moment.

:37:35.:37:39.

Get it all sorted and get out of the European union.

:37:40.:37:42.

As are our guests I'm sure - Angela Rayner the Labour MP

:37:43.:37:46.

for Ashton-under-Lyne and Shadow Education Secretary,

:37:47.:37:47.

and Graham Brady is the senior backbench Conservative MP

:37:48.:37:50.

We will get your views shortly on the speech.

:37:51.:37:59.

Let's hear from Liberal Democrat leader Tim Farron who didn't

:38:00.:38:02.

To take us out of the single market and with the white flag over the

:38:03.:38:13.

cliffs of Dover and give up on what is best for Britain, is damaging to

:38:14.:38:18.

Britain's future and it is a theft of democracy. It was not on the

:38:19.:38:23.

ballot paper at last June and it is terrible she is forcing it on as

:38:24.:38:25.

now. We went through a referendum

:38:26.:38:33.

campaign where both sides It was made very clear

:38:34.:38:38.

by the Prime Minister at the time and George Osborne,

:38:39.:38:43.

the Chancellor. It was made clear by both

:38:44.:38:44.

sides in the campaign. If people want to have

:38:45.:38:47.

control over migration into the United Kingdom, it is also

:38:48.:38:52.

a fundamental requirement. You cannot do that

:38:53.:38:54.

in this angle market. What was clear was the outcome

:38:55.:38:56.

of the referendum. One of the things we do get through

:38:57.:39:01.

it now is ensuring we get the best If we're not going to be

:39:02.:39:06.

of the single market, I understand Theresa May is looking

:39:07.:39:10.

at how we will get access to that single market and that is something

:39:11.:39:13.

we need to progress and make sure Our young people need those

:39:14.:39:16.

high-skilled, high wage jobs and that business across Europe

:39:17.:39:21.

and That is my priority,

:39:22.:39:22.

to hold Theresa May on that. So how has Theresa May's vision

:39:23.:39:29.

for Brexit gone down We asked Stuart Pollitt

:39:30.:39:32.

to gauge reaction at not just a single market

:39:33.:39:35.

- get it? but two - in towns with different

:39:36.:39:39.

views in last year's referendum. It's just over six

:39:40.:39:42.

months since the in or out choice that put the cat

:39:43.:39:52.

amongst the pigeons. Have attitudes changed

:39:53.:39:56.

in Brexit backing Burnley? The day after the vote we met Athena

:39:57.:40:02.

and her partner James. They'd opened their greek deli

:40:03.:40:06.

in Burnley that very week. Business is still quite slow

:40:07.:40:11.

but a nice Christmas, a good You and your partner had

:40:12.:40:14.

a difference in opinion. I still think that people don't

:40:15.:40:22.

realise how difficult it will be A lot of people think it

:40:23.:40:29.

has gone down hill, the Do you think we might

:40:30.:41:04.

have made a mistake? Our country, the best

:41:05.:41:07.

country in the world. This was an area that

:41:08.:41:12.

voted to remain. How do they think

:41:13.:41:18.

about all things EU and Their wider business has

:41:19.:41:21.

been bubbling away quite Ours has increased in

:41:22.:41:31.

the past six months. We have found an

:41:32.:41:38.

increase in business. It has made me think

:41:39.:41:39.

to get along a bit faster. We were going back

:41:40.:41:54.

to what we used to be. So it seems that

:41:55.:42:13.

despite Theresa May's intervention this week -

:42:14.:42:15.

peopel's views about our place Nobody seems to be

:42:16.:42:17.

changing their minds. Also with us is Dr Kathryn Simpson,

:42:18.:42:20.

a Brexit expert from I would like to start

:42:21.:42:23.

with you, Angela. You have accused the Prime

:42:24.:42:28.

Minister of dithering. It provided some clarity

:42:29.:42:30.

but I so have concerns and one of the concerns

:42:31.:42:41.

is the north-west has seemed

:42:42.:42:43.

like the poor cousin and I want and I want to see the detail

:42:44.:42:51.

about how we're going to get How is Brexit going to

:42:52.:42:54.

ensure we are getting a fare share of the economic

:42:55.:43:01.

pie, so to speak. We have not felt that for a long

:43:02.:43:03.

time and I think that is why parts of the north-west

:43:04.:43:08.

voted in the way we did. We want to see the fruits

:43:09.:43:10.

of that in the north-west. Would you like to see her go further

:43:11.:43:13.

in what will replace single market? No, I think people

:43:14.:43:16.

complained about her moving slowly is because she

:43:17.:43:18.

is methodical and she likes

:43:19.:43:19.

to work through things. She has now given a clear statement

:43:20.:43:21.

about what they are trying to achieve and negotiate

:43:22.:43:25.

the objectives are. We cannot announce what is

:43:26.:43:32.

happening at this point. We need to go and that

:43:33.:43:34.

for the best deal that we can. I think what she has set out

:43:35.:43:37.

in terms of that trade It is a difficult one

:43:38.:43:40.

from the speech that she gave on Tuesday,

:43:41.:43:48.

it is clear we are going to be leaving the single and also

:43:49.:43:51.

we want to have a relationship with the customs union

:43:52.:43:55.

as well but we are going to opt out With a lot of trade agreements

:43:56.:43:58.

as well, these take Davos speech, she slapped the wrist

:43:59.:44:06.

of some of the leaders who was There was criticism

:44:07.:44:22.

across Europe that she She accused the EU of holding us

:44:23.:44:29.

in a vice like grip. That is not how you make friends

:44:30.:44:38.

and influence people. What I welcome most

:44:39.:44:41.

is the positive, warm tone. I like the fact

:44:42.:44:43.

she was talking about looking outwards and

:44:44.:44:45.

engaging with the world. We see ourselves as being close

:44:46.:44:49.

allies of our European I think we will be more engaged

:44:50.:44:51.

with Europe and the world without having this destructive

:44:52.:44:56.

relationship where we are constantly arguing against the next

:44:57.:44:58.

round of integration. Because they want to go to a place

:44:59.:45:05.

that we never could. Angela, where was Jeremy Corbyn

:45:06.:45:07.

after this speech? It was a golden opportunity

:45:08.:45:09.

to get the Labour message across and we saw a confused

:45:10.:45:13.

message from the Labour leader. Jeremy Corbyn was quite

:45:14.:45:16.

strong in questions. We put our press release out and

:45:17.:45:21.

meet your people were clear that we do not want a bargain basement

:45:22.:45:38.

economy and the tax haven that we were concerned the

:45:39.:45:41.

Chancellor spoke about. We want to see high skilled,

:45:42.:45:42.

highly paid jobs in the north-west. I am crucially involved with that

:45:43.:45:45.

in our education brief. We are not going to be

:45:46.:45:48.

able to provide that economy and those jobs and we are

:45:49.:45:50.

looking at being a tax haven. Tim Farron has offered

:45:51.:45:53.

an alternative. He is going to ignore

:45:54.:45:58.

the vote of the Do you think your constituents

:45:59.:46:00.

know what Jeremy Corbyn We will be exiting the European

:46:01.:46:04.

union and we want to see the details of how we're

:46:05.:46:10.

going to protect jobs and make sure we have what people describe as soft

:46:11.:46:14.

mandate to end up with less quality conditions.

:46:15.:46:32.

People in the north-west voted strongly because

:46:33.:46:33.

They were not control of their lives any more.

:46:34.:46:36.

They have not been given opportunities.

:46:37.:46:38.

They want to see was opportunities and I want to make

:46:39.:46:41.

sure that those opportunities come to the north-west for us.

:46:42.:46:43.

A strong message has been from the Liberal

:46:44.:46:47.

They are the strong European or pro-European, party in

:46:48.:46:57.

This is the one time that we want strong opposition in British

:46:58.:47:01.

The Conservatives have a difficult six-month ahead of them

:47:02.:47:05.

and I think Labour need a clear message on where they stand on

:47:06.:47:08.

Brexit and what they expect to come of these negotiations over the

:47:09.:47:11.

Just to pick up on the north-west, and the

:47:12.:47:16.

idea of people feeling disengaged, there was a strong leave vote for

:47:17.:47:21.

the European union, apart from the city

:47:22.:47:22.

centre of Manchester, but

:47:23.:47:23.

regional structural development funds are matched funding and that

:47:24.:47:29.

is something that we need to have more clarifications on in terms of

:47:30.:47:32.

investment for jobs, different educational

:47:33.:47:33.

programmes but for the

:47:34.:47:34.

Will our views in the north west actually matter?

:47:35.:47:38.

Labour's mayoral contender for Greater Manchester sought

:47:39.:47:40.

assurances this week from the Brexit Secretary.

:47:41.:47:44.

I see the Prime Minister's speech today that she mentions the impact

:47:45.:47:47.

Protecting the interests of Cardiff and London. There is no mention of

:47:48.:48:00.

the north-west of Manchester. I am called as of the needs of the north

:48:01.:48:08.

and what I am intending to do, is after at the mayoral elections to

:48:09.:48:12.

get all the mayors of the north to come together and have a meeting to

:48:13.:48:17.

talk about that. He has promised this committee for the regions on

:48:18.:48:22.

Brexit. We are feeling abandoned. The northern Power has seems to have

:48:23.:48:27.

disappeared. Phrase that David Davis is using? I think David Davis is it

:48:28.:48:35.

nor there are, the wrong side of the Pennines but we will not hold that

:48:36.:48:41.

against him but he realised the importance of that engagement and he

:48:42.:48:44.

was offering that to the north. He took that we have got members of

:48:45.:48:54.

Parliament to make sure our voices are heard. We do not want the words

:48:55.:48:58.

That was part of the Brexit vote for That was part of the Brexit vote for

:48:59.:49:04.

me, they want to see the real investment programme were there

:49:05.:49:08.

young people are not having to young people are not having to

:49:09.:49:11.

they want to see the jobs in they want to see the jobs in

:49:12.:49:15.

Manchester and the north. We are seeing a lot of that investment in

:49:16.:49:19.

transport but it is going to be wider, we are on the same page of

:49:20.:49:25.

that. A lot of the jobs are reliant on the U. If we leave the single

:49:26.:49:27.

market, this is jumping into the market, this is jumping into the

:49:28.:49:33.

unknown? There is a period of uncertainty. What is interesting is

:49:34.:49:38.

that that kind of economic shock has not hit as strongly as it was

:49:39.:49:42.

predicted. Because of the uncertainty that we know about

:49:43.:49:46.

because of the Brexit negotiations, yes, we have had some clarity but

:49:47.:49:50.

not lots. There is no white paper that is going to follow up the

:49:51.:49:54.

speech. We need to see further clarity and this period of

:49:55.:49:58.

uncertainty will fester this, in particular for jobs and the economy.

:49:59.:50:02.

People say we did not learn anything. She gave a great speech

:50:03.:50:07.

but we did not learn very much, did we? I do not know, I had a call from

:50:08.:50:12.

a journalist and they said they have never seen a speech overdeliver.

:50:13.:50:19.

What did we learn? The tone was the most important thing. Reaching out

:50:20.:50:26.

and being globally engaged and the reassuring that was offered to

:50:27.:50:30.

citizens from the European union in the UK. Not a cast-iron guarantee.

:50:31.:50:37.

That is a hands of the other European countries. It would have

:50:38.:50:42.

been given if... I think there was a lot in the speech in terms of tone,

:50:43.:50:47.

but in terms of direction. I do not think... This was a 7000 word

:50:48.:50:53.

speech, I do not agree need a white Paper now. If people want a White

:50:54.:50:58.

Paper, they should print the speech off. I am sure we will be coming

:50:59.:51:02.

back to this. Thank you very much for joining us.

:51:03.:51:05.

Art, music and cookery lessons could soon be

:51:06.:51:07.

a thing of the past, according to head

:51:08.:51:09.

?3 billion is being cut from the national budget,

:51:10.:51:12.

while individual schools are also getting to grips

:51:13.:51:14.

And spending per pupil in one half of Cheshire is now

:51:15.:51:18.

the lowest in the country, as Phil McCann can explain.

:51:19.:51:26.

Chefs and artists, two professions this school may not be producing in

:51:27.:51:35.

future unless the Government's new funding formula changes. I want to

:51:36.:51:39.

use it for when I am older so I can cook on my own. I think it is

:51:40.:51:43.

important for young people to learn about it and I enjoyed cooking

:51:44.:51:47.

different foods every week. I like guitar lessons because I like

:51:48.:51:53.

letting my inspiration paint itself on a page. It is devastating for us

:51:54.:52:00.

it to come off the curriculum. We will miss out as a country. This

:52:01.:52:08.

budget. These subjects could go or a budget. These subjects could go or a

:52:09.:52:17.

four day week good goal. Under this proposal, these subjects are at

:52:18.:52:23.

risk, these subjects that make school should be about. A balanced

:52:24.:52:27.

experience for our young people. We have never seen anything like it. It

:52:28.:52:32.

is Draconian and it will destroy some schools. It is going to have a

:52:33.:52:37.

massive impact on the provision we give to our children in an area of

:52:38.:52:42.

deprivation. The schools in this area are amongst the worst funded in

:52:43.:52:47.

England. Your is a problem for you. The Education Secretary wants to

:52:48.:52:51.

reduce the basic level of funding for each pupil in Cheshire by ?87.

:52:52.:52:56.

All is not equal, if you subtract All is not equal, if you subtract

:52:57.:53:00.

the amount that people would get that there are counterparts in the

:53:01.:53:04.

best funded parts of the UK would get... Pupils here would lose out to

:53:05.:53:14.

the tune of ?2700. The formula makes one of the worst funded borrowers in

:53:15.:53:21.

England the worst funded. Also joining Cheshire east in the bottom

:53:22.:53:28.

ten... Warrington, the west of Cheshire, Stockport and Trafford.

:53:29.:53:34.

Last week, the schools minister told MPs the formula was meant to get rid

:53:35.:53:38.

of inequalities. We need to introduce fear funding so that the

:53:39.:53:42.

same child with the same need will attract the same funding, regardless

:53:43.:53:47.

of where they happen to live. Top ups do mean some schools are better

:53:48.:53:51.

off if they are in deprived areas. More people to do not speak English

:53:52.:53:55.

as a second language. The Government is facing pressure to come up with a

:53:56.:53:59.

new mix of many of its MPs who teased unfairness. -- taste. A

:54:00.:54:09.

headteacher saying it was Draconian and brilliant schools could be

:54:10.:54:15.

damaged. Absolutely right and the draft that has been put out has some

:54:16.:54:20.

very perverse effects. It cannot happen. It is a draft for

:54:21.:54:26.

discussion. I think the Secretary of State and other ministers have felt

:54:27.:54:29.

clearly the views that others have expressed about that. Many of us

:54:30.:54:34.

have wanted a national funding formula for a long time because we

:54:35.:54:37.

represent areas which historically have been badly funded and there

:54:38.:54:41.

should be a way to even it up and get fairness. It is crazy to

:54:42.:54:45.

proposal whereby the worst funded proposal whereby the worst funded

:54:46.:54:48.

authorities would get even less than seeing them come up to the

:54:49.:54:52.

This is on top of the 3 billion This is on top of the 3 billion

:54:53.:54:55.

being cut nationally. Greening being cut nationally. Greening

:54:56.:55:01.

saying there has to be a... Something has to give. That is what

:55:02.:55:08.

we are talking about. We are talking about the worst funded local

:55:09.:55:12.

authority areas facing further cuts and the whole point of a national

:55:13.:55:16.

funding formula is to achieve fairness across the country. Angela,

:55:17.:55:23.

we heard figures of the worst schools in the country. All in the

:55:24.:55:30.

north-west, all in the bottom five, all Labour-controlled local

:55:31.:55:32.

authorities. What is upsetting to me is that in some of our most deprived

:55:33.:55:37.

areas with a neat extra support, some of the cuts that have been

:55:38.:55:43.

really hard-hitting and our services have been affected by that. Oldham

:55:44.:55:49.

Council have seen over 50% of their budget cut. It has had an impact and

:55:50.:55:53.

we need to be putting that money in. Justine Greening said it is going to

:55:54.:55:57.

be one of those Tiger did areas but if we take ?20 and take ten back,

:55:58.:56:06.

you are still losing ?10. We do want a national funding formula is fear

:56:07.:56:09.

and poster Brexit, our young people are going to be the future and the

:56:10.:56:15.

ones who are going to have technology and make Britain great

:56:16.:56:20.

again. Why are they not investing in grammar schools, when we know bright

:56:21.:56:27.

kids are not being reached? People do better when they go to grammar

:56:28.:56:33.

wealthier backgrounds. We need to wealthier backgrounds. We need to

:56:34.:56:37.

is as fair as possible. How do we do is as fair as possible. How do we do

:56:38.:56:42.

that when we know there is evidence that families moved to that area and

:56:43.:56:48.

pay for tutors. Let's get some grammar schools in the least

:56:49.:56:52.

affluent areas. Will that work, Angela? As we both know, there is

:56:53.:56:59.

private tutoring and children get squeezed out again. It is not a fair

:57:00.:57:02.

system and we know that the national system and we know that the national

:57:03.:57:08.

tables show that where we have comprehensive systems, that serves

:57:09.:57:14.

children, all children do well in a comprehensive system. When you bring

:57:15.:57:18.

in selection, like in Kent, the attainment gap grows. If you look at

:57:19.:57:25.

Trafford, we are doing a great job for children across a whole.

:57:26.:57:31.

Trafford is an affluent area. It is a mixed area. That is because there

:57:32.:57:35.

are more grammar schools they appeared to move there for that

:57:36.:57:39.

reason. We are getting good results. If you look at the tables that came

:57:40.:57:45.

out this week,... Progress and grammar schools were not as good as

:57:46.:57:50.

comprehensive. One of the newspapers said that particular at the tables,

:57:51.:57:56.

they were better than any of the nearby authorities. That includes

:57:57.:58:00.

schools like Stratford Grammar, which is in one of the less affluent

:58:01.:58:06.

parts. If you look at the model of grammars were they can afford to get

:58:07.:58:14.

extra curricular act to reduce -- activities, we want that for every

:58:15.:58:20.

child, wouldn't you agree? We need all children to get that. I go to

:58:21.:58:24.

the local high schools and I see some of the best teachers they are.

:58:25.:58:30.

You get really good teachers who have different inclinations,

:58:31.:58:31.

different specialisms... They will tell you that they are restricted in

:58:32.:58:36.

terms of offering extracurricular activities. We need that funding and

:58:37.:58:43.

support to do that. You will have to agree to disagree on this one.

:58:44.:58:46.

Health services were still in the news this week.

:58:47.:58:48.

Here's Carol Lowe with that and a roundup of what else

:58:49.:58:51.

for the region's health services this week.

:58:52.:59:04.

Celebrations in Chorley as A reopened part-time after nine

:59:05.:59:06.

We wanted open 24 seven. It is not open 24/7. -- want it open.

:59:07.:59:16.

But anger in Bury as health bosses voted to close two walk-in centres.

:59:17.:59:21.

We need these places were you can just go on.

:59:22.:59:24.

The biggest building project outside London is in its final year.

:59:25.:59:27.

The 600 million pound Mersey Gateway Bridge is due

:59:28.:59:29.

A consultation closed into plans for a generation of homebuilding

:59:30.:59:33.

Tynwald's on the telly - the Manx Parliament has been up

:59:34.:59:40.

and running for more than a millennium and will now

:59:41.:59:42.

And Washington finally welcomed a man who could shape

:59:43.:59:48.

As the MP for Ribble Valley Nigel Evans popped over for the weekend.

:59:49.:59:57.

Thank you to my guests, Angela Rayner and Graham Brady.

:59:58.:00:02.

Next week we'll be looking at a local MP's role in the legacy

:00:03.:00:06.

Now I'll hand you back to Andrew Neil in London.

:00:07.:00:10.

have to do this. Thank you to you both.

:00:11.:00:13.

What exactly is the government's industrial strategy?

:00:14.:00:23.

Will ministers lose their supreme court battle over Brexit, and,

:00:24.:00:27.

Well, tomorrow Theresa May is launching the government's

:00:28.:00:39.

industrial strategy - and to talk about that we're joined

:00:40.:00:42.

by the Business Minister, Margot James - welcome to the show.

:00:43.:00:50.

When you look at what has already been released in advance of the

:00:51.:00:57.

Prime Minister's statement, it was embargoed for last night, it's not

:00:58.:01:03.

really an industrial strategy, it's just another skills strategy, of

:01:04.:01:07.

which we have had about six since the war, and our skills training is

:01:08.:01:14.

among the worst in Western Europe? There will be plenty more to be

:01:15.:01:18.

announced tomorrow in what is really a discussion document in the

:01:19.:01:22.

preparation of an industrial strategy which we intend to launch

:01:23.:01:26.

properly later in the year. Let's look at skills. You are allocating

:01:27.:01:35.

117 of funding to establish institutes of technology. How many?

:01:36.:01:41.

The exact number is to be agreed, but the spend is there, and it will

:01:42.:01:47.

be on top of what we are doing to the university, technical

:01:48.:01:50.

colleges... How many were lit bio create? We don't know exactly, but

:01:51.:01:56.

we want to put them in areas where young people are performing under

:01:57.:02:00.

the national average. But if you don't know how many, what is the

:02:01.:02:07.

basis of 170 million? That is the amount the Treasury have released.

:02:08.:02:11.

The something that is very important, we are agreed we need to

:02:12.:02:16.

devote more resources to vocational training and get it on a par with

:02:17.:02:22.

academic qualifications. I looked on the website of my old university,

:02:23.:02:28.

the University of Glasgow, the Russell group universities. Its

:02:29.:02:33.

spending budget every year is over 600 million. That's one University.

:02:34.:02:41.

And yet you have a mere 170 million foreign unspecified number of

:02:42.:02:46.

institutes of technology. It hasn't got equality with the academics? You

:02:47.:02:51.

have to remember that just as you have quoted figures from Glasgow

:02:52.:02:55.

University there are further education colleges all over the

:02:56.:02:59.

country. The government is already spending on 16 to 19-year-olds. But

:03:00.:03:08.

also, we are going to be adding... This is new money that is all to the

:03:09.:03:13.

good, because we are already spending a lot. We have already

:03:14.:03:18.

created 2 million more apprentices since 2010. That many are not in

:03:19.:03:22.

what we would call the stem skills, and a lot come nowhere near what the

:03:23.:03:27.

Dutch, Germans and Austrians would have. I'm not clear how another 170

:03:28.:03:33.

million would do. You said it is more than skills. In what way is

:03:34.:03:38.

this industrial strategy different from what Mr Cameron and Mr Osborne

:03:39.:03:49.

did before? It's different because it is involving every single

:03:50.:03:51.

government department, and bringing together everything that government

:03:52.:03:54.

does in a bid to make Britain more competitive as it disengages from

:03:55.:03:57.

the European Union. That is what the last Labour government did. They

:03:58.:04:03.

will much more targeted interventions. Under the Labour

:04:04.:04:07.

government, the auto industry got some benefit. A few more sectors

:04:08.:04:12.

were broached under the coalition government. This is all about

:04:13.:04:16.

communities all over the country, some of whom have fallen behind in

:04:17.:04:21.

terms of wage growth and good jobs. The Prime Minister has already

:04:22.:04:27.

announced 2 billion as a research and development priority in specific

:04:28.:04:34.

technologies, robotics, artificial intelligence, medical technology,

:04:35.:04:38.

satellites... So you are doing what has been done before. There is

:04:39.:04:43.

nothing new about this. Wait until tomorrow, because there will be some

:04:44.:04:48.

new strands emerging. It is the beginning of the dialogue with

:04:49.:04:51.

industry and with workers, and the responses will be invited up until

:04:52.:04:58.

April. That will inform a wider strategy that goes beyond skills. I

:04:59.:05:03.

have moved on to beyond them. I'm slightly puzzled as to how the

:05:04.:05:08.

government knows where to invest in robotics, when it can't even provide

:05:09.:05:14.

the NHS with a decent IT system. Discuss. I have to say I find it

:05:15.:05:19.

bizarre that the government is making an announcement about an

:05:20.:05:22.

amount of money and don't know where it's going. This is typical of all

:05:23.:05:27.

governments over all political shoes, which is total disregard for

:05:28.:05:33.

technical education, so different from Germany, who actually invest in

:05:34.:05:41.

the technological side. Germany has a long history. We want to emulate

:05:42.:05:47.

some of the best of what German companies do. Siemens sponsor

:05:48.:05:52.

primary schools, for example. We want to get a dialogue on with

:05:53.:05:58.

business. We don't want to decide where this money is going. By the

:05:59.:06:03.

way, it was 4.7 billion that the government has agreed to invest in

:06:04.:06:08.

science and research, which is the most significant increase in

:06:09.:06:12.

decades. Can you remind us what happened in Northern Ireland, when

:06:13.:06:16.

the government invested money in state-of-the-art technology for

:06:17.:06:20.

energy? No one needs to be reminded of that, and that is not what we are

:06:21.:06:27.

doing. We are inviting business and industry to advise where that money

:06:28.:06:32.

is best spent. That's very different from government deciding that a

:06:33.:06:38.

particular technology is for the future. The government's chief

:06:39.:06:43.

scientific adviser has determined that we will invest a huge amount in

:06:44.:06:48.

battery technology, which should benefit the electric car industry,

:06:49.:06:53.

and... This is taxpayers' money. Who gets it? Ultimately, business will

:06:54.:07:00.

get it, but often only when there is a considerable amount of private

:07:01.:07:05.

sector finance also drawn in. But who is held to account? Various

:07:06.:07:13.

government departments at local authorities will hold this list to

:07:14.:07:18.

account. A lot of it is about releasing private capital as well.

:07:19.:07:24.

Thank you very much. This week, the Supreme Court, I think we know the

:07:25.:07:32.

ruling is coming on Tuesday. And the expectation is that the judges will

:07:33.:07:36.

say Parliament will have to vote to trigger. Is this all much ado about

:07:37.:07:41.

nothing? Parliament will vote to trigger, and the government will win

:07:42.:07:45.

in the Lords and the Commons by substantial majorities, and it will

:07:46.:07:49.

be triggered? Completely. We've known that. Parliament is voted.

:07:50.:07:54.

Everyone is pretty confident that the Supreme Court will uphold the

:07:55.:07:58.

High Court's decision and say it has to go to MPs. There will be a bit of

:07:59.:08:07.

toing and froing among MPs on amendments. You heard Diane Abbott's

:08:08.:08:12.

slightly car crash interview there. The Lib Dems may throw something in,

:08:13.:08:16.

but we will trigger Article 50 by the end of March. If it also says

:08:17.:08:23.

that the roll of Edinburgh, Cardiff and Belfast should be picked up,

:08:24.:08:28.

that could complicate matters. Absolutely. That could delay the

:08:29.:08:32.

planned triggering of Article 50 before the end of March. Not what

:08:33.:08:37.

they say about the Westminster Parliament, because it is clear that

:08:38.:08:42.

it was. I never understood the furore about that original judgment,

:08:43.:08:47.

because every MP made it clear they wouldn't block it. Even though Diane

:08:48.:08:51.

Abbott was evasive on several fronts, she said they wouldn't block

:08:52.:08:57.

it. You are right, if they give a vote, or give some authorisation for

:08:58.:09:01.

the Scottish Parliament and other devolved assemblies, that might

:09:02.:09:06.

delay the whole sequence. That is the only significant thing to watch

:09:07.:09:12.

out for. Watch out on Tuesday. Mrs May goes to Washington. It will be

:09:13.:09:17.

another movie in the making! I would suggest that she has a tricky line

:09:18.:09:22.

to follow. She has got to be seen to be taking advantage of the fact that

:09:23.:09:27.

there is a very pro-British, pro-Brexit president in the Oval

:09:28.:09:32.

Office, who I am told is prepared to expend political capital on this.

:09:33.:09:36.

But on the other hand, to make sure that she is not what we used to call

:09:37.:09:49.

Mr Blair, George Bush's poodle. It is very difficult, and who would not

:09:50.:09:52.

want to be a fly on the wall in that meeting! I can't think of anyone in

:09:53.:09:56.

the world who would despise Mr Trump more than Mrs May, and for him, he

:09:57.:10:01.

dislikes any woman who does not look like a supermodel, no disrespected

:10:02.:10:12.

Mrs May. Most of it is actually anti-EU, and I think we should

:10:13.:10:15.

capitalise it. Let's get the Queen to earn her money, roll out the red

:10:16.:10:20.

carpet, invite him to dinner, spend the night, what ever we need...

:10:21.:10:28.

Trump at Balmoral! Here is the issue, because the agenda is, as we

:10:29.:10:32.

heard from Ted Malloch earlier, that this is not an administration that

:10:33.:10:38.

has much time for the EU, EU integration or Germany. I think

:10:39.:10:41.

Germany will be the second biggest loser to begin with. They will not

:10:42.:10:46.

even give a date for Angela Merkel to meet the president. This is an

:10:47.:10:54.

opportunity for Mrs May... It is a huge. It could sideline talks of the

:10:55.:11:03.

punishment beating from Germany. The Trump presidency has completely

:11:04.:11:09.

changed the field on Brexit. Along came Donald Trump, and Theresa May

:11:10.:11:13.

has this incredible opportunity here. Not of her making, but she has

:11:14.:11:19.

played her cards well. To an officially be the EU emissary to

:11:20.:11:24.

Washington, to get some sort of broker going. That gives us huge

:11:25.:11:29.

extra leveraged in the Brexit negotiations. People around the

:11:30.:11:33.

world think Germany as a currency manipulator, that it is benefiting

:11:34.:11:38.

from an underpriced euro, hence the huge surplus it runs of America, and

:11:39.:11:42.

they think it is disgraceful that a country that runs a massive budget

:11:43.:11:48.

surplus spends only 1.2% of its GDP on defence, and America runs a

:11:49.:11:53.

massive deficit and needs to spend a lot more. He's going for Germany.

:11:54.:11:59.

And what a massive shift. I think Obama was quite open, in a farewell

:12:00.:12:04.

interview, that he felt closer to Merkel than any other European

:12:05.:12:09.

leader. And Jamie kind of reflected that in our discussion. Yes, that's

:12:10.:12:16.

very interesting discussion. I think she was the last person he spoke to

:12:17.:12:20.

in the White House, Obama. And now you are getting the onslaught from

:12:21.:12:27.

Trump. This Thatcher- Reagan imagery is dangerous, though. Blair was

:12:28.:12:31.

hypnotised by it and was too scared to criticise Bush, because he wanted

:12:32.:12:36.

to be seen in that light, and we know where that led. Cameron

:12:37.:12:42.

similarly with Obama, which presented him with problems, as

:12:43.:12:45.

Obama didn't regard him as his number one pin up in Europe. I would

:12:46.:12:52.

put a note of caution in there about the Thatcher - Reagan parallel.

:12:53.:12:57.

Everything Trump is doing now is different from before, so Mrs May

:12:58.:13:02.

should not have any of these previous relationships in her mind.

:13:03.:13:08.

That is not entirely true. Donald Trump aches to be the new Ronald

:13:09.:13:15.

Reagan. He may be impeached first! He sees her as the new Margaret

:13:16.:13:19.

Thatcher, and that may her leveraged with him. Thank you.

:13:20.:13:27.

We'll be back here at the same time next week, and you can catch up

:13:28.:13:32.

on all the latest political news on the Daily Politics,

:13:33.:13:34.

In the meantime, remember - if it's Sunday,

:13:35.:13:38.

It's just pain, but it doesn't feel like pain,

:13:39.:14:16.

it feels much more violent, dark and exciting.

:14:17.:14:39.

Join Michael Buerk as he explores the dishes fit for kings and queens.

:14:40.:14:45.

When it comes to extravagance, few monarchs can compete with George IV.

:14:46.:14:49.

If that was for breakfast, I dread to think what he had for dinner.

:14:50.:14:53.

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