01/07/2012 Sunday Politics Northern Ireland

The Deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness on the Queen, the

discrimination tribunal and reconciliation. Join me in half-an-

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1683 seconds

Welcome to the programme. Momentous, historic, unprecedented,

however you look at it, this week saw yet another landmark moment. A

once unthinkable gesture between a former IRA leader and the Commander

in Chief of the British armed forces. We will hear from a man --

the man at the centre of it all, Martin McGuinness. With this, Alex

Kane and Eamonn McDermott. This week's handshake ended months

of speculation and discussion as the Deputy First Minister met the

Queen and Duke of Edinburgh. On Friday I interviewed Martin

McGuinness and began by asking him if he had been nervous.

No, not in the least. I obviously understood the historical

significance of what was about to happen and what did happen. Not in

the least nervous, because I had a very clear understanding that

whenever the Palace decided that she would participate in this event

under the auspices of co-operation Ireland and they -- and in the

company of Peter Robinson and myself, I knew I was dealing with

people who were anxious to ensure that this symbolic act would feed

into the peace process in a very powerful way. Of course, the next

phase of that process has to be a process of reconciliation. I hope

the work that others within Sinn Fein and the Unionist community,

and a Protestant churches who are at the exploratory stage of this

process, can use what happened on Wednesday as a powerful indicator

that Sinn Fein are not playing games with this issue. This is a

very important issue and one to which we intend to contribute in a

positive and meaningful way. There has been lots of meaningful

coverage about your personal journey, with pictures going back

to the early 1970s. Is there a particular moment in the last 40

years when he went from sighing never, going from war to peace, was

there were part -- a defining moment? The last 40 years has been

an incredible journey. There's nothing romantic about it, nothing

glorious about it at, and nothing glorious about war. I was always

very conscious of that. We live in a time -- we lived in a time were

better battles were taking place, where people were poorer opposites

and when there was a dismal failure of politics and politicians,

particularly on the British government's side. For me, it was

about recognising that we were in the midst of a conflict, one that

conceivably could have gone on for a very long time, even to this day.

When it comes to meeting the Queen this week, could you have ever

envisaged when you were in the earlier part of your journey by you

would have met the Queen? honest answer is no. Likewise, in

the early stages of this process, particularly in the aftermath of

the achievement of the Good Friday Agreement, when the Democratic

Unionist Party said that Berra raison d'etre was to bring about

the destruction of the agreement, I never imagined that a number of

years later I would have walked into government alongside Ian

Paisley, which was another historic moment in 2007. You soon learn,

when you're in this process, that sometimes anything is possible.

When it comes to the day of a handshake and the meeting, there

has been speculation that the Duke of Edinburgh doctor out of the way.

Is that how you interpreted it? at all. It is typical of the media,

trying to speculate about what happened. What happens in

circumstances like that is that Prince Philip knows whenever Queen

Elizabeth moves at any event, he has to be close by her side. My

sense of it was that is what happened. It was a very good

natured meeting. It was very powerful. It was very nice and it

was a coming together of people who obviously had different allegiances,

but it was a very genuine act of peace and reconciliation. Prince

Philip was as much of that -- a part of that as Queen Elizabeth,

Peter Robinson, the President of Ireland, and myself. You said bet

you wanted to shake hands of every Protestant and Unionist. How does

the judgment from Conor Murphy's discrimination case tie into that?

Is that not disappointing and embarrassing for Sinn Fein?

been released. This is far from finished. People are seeking legal

advice and I would not be at all surprised if this decision was to

be appeased, possibly not just by Conor Murphy but the department and

officials who are associated with the department. We will await the

outcome. There is not a sectarian bone in Conor Murphy's body. Conor

Murphy is part of our leadership. Naturally, it is disappointing that

such a verdict was reached by the tribunal, but that will have to run

its course and it will become something to discuss at some stage.

Does this not call for his resignation? We have to be mature

about this. What is called into question is whether a minister has

a right to make a ministerial appointment, or are ministerial did

-- appointment going to be dictated by a body which is not part of the

government? It is suggested he changed the criteria. We will leave

that to the appeals process. I will not get into analysing the decision

or the response, except to say but I would have no active part in

being involved in an administration that is prepared to discriminate

against anybody. As Irish republicans, who have been long

discriminated against ourselves, the last thing we want to do is

impose any form of discrimination or inequality on any body from the

Protestant community. You have talked about lots of Never Say

Never moments and the art of the impossible. Can you imagine a time

that Sinn Fein would take seas at Westminster? No, and I made a

speech in the House of Commons at - - last night that I will be shortly

resigning my seat because Sinn Fein has decided that double-jobbing

will end. We will be engaging with political parties at Westminster

and on the international stage. I said last night that people need to

respect our position in this. This is a very principled republican

position of long-standing. When we stand in elections we seek support

from the electorate on the basis of our abstentionist policy and in

five very powerful constituencies in the north, we have received the

support of the people. Is that an admission by do still have some way

to go in terms of convincing Unionists of the ideal of a united

Ireland? The honest answer is yes. Unionist allegiance is to what they

call the United Kingdom, and our allegiance is to the island of

Ireland and the people of Ireland. But should not prevent us from

continuing to be involved in joint processes, which make people's

lives better. Over the course of the next couple of weeks I hope to

see through our speaker at the Assembly, and the Speaker of the

Irish parliament, making no public announcement that there will be a

meeting of an Inter Parliamentary Association made up of equal

numbers from Dublin and the Northern Ireland Assembly. All of

that is an example of how we can move forward to ensure that

politicians on the island of Ireland are involved in very

serious discussions and deliberations about how we can, for

example, work together economic lead to make life better for the

people we represent. It has been said this week they you do not gain

anything from being involved over the last 40 years. What motivates

you? I am an Irish republican. I want to bring about a free and

independent Ireland but I want to do that by purely peaceful and

democratic means. I say that as someone who was involved in the

conflict and has not been afraid to say that I was involved in the

conflict. Does that help motivate you, the regret about the people

died? It motivated me. We address this earlier, I said that I came to

be conclusion that there was a monetary stalemate. If there is a

stalemate, if that monetary struggle continues, people are

going to lose their lives. If people like Gerry Adams and myself

had not been involved in trying to get a ceasefire in 194 -- 1994, I

have no doubt that the IRA would still been fighting the British

Army to this very day. The roads would still have been covered by a

British army checkpoint. Things have changed because we made it

changed. Alex Kane, a robust defence of

Conor Murphy. Does that surprise you? Not at all. When you hear a

Sinn Fein minister said that there is not a sectarian bone in his

colleague's body, you almost expect it to be followed by a statement

that some of his friends are in the Orange Order. I suspect that Conor

Murphy did make a huge mistake. It may not have been made as a

sectarian mistake, but there was a decision that someone should not

have been in a position because of his political background. How has

the handshake gone down in Derry? It sounds as if there are two

different sides. Some people think there is disquiet, something it was

a damp squib? -- some think it was. It is politics of the jester. I did

a piece for the newspaper during the week and one man said to me, it

will make no difference. There is disquiet. The Queen is not held in

great esteem in nationalist circles. It is not looked upon as anything

major in the sense that she is some figure of importance. There is

disquiet in that Martin McGuinness says he is still a Republican.

People are saying, how can a Republican shake hands with the

head of British state? People are also saying that it is a step

forward, it had to come at some stage. There are mixed feelings.

How do you think it has gone in the Unionist community? There is a

Jekyll and Hyde man of the station. On Wednesday, you had the bonhomie,

by handshakes, the smiles. 24 hours later, Martin McGuinness was in

London, blaming the British for everything. He is justifying the 40

years of his own involvement in it the terrorist struggle and talking

about reconciliation which only requires that section of Unionism

to take them over. On one hand he says he is doing it to help but on

the other hand he is been terribly insulting and terror be petty. --

terribly Petit. Did he have to play a bike that? You have to remember

that Sinn Fein are playing an All Ireland ticket. Shaking hands with

the British Queen is popular in the south, and they will gain a lot of

credos in the south. It is not so popular in the south. They are

taking a risk in a strategy, saying they can't pick up support in the

south and hoping they do not lose it in the north. It is a balancing

act and I think time will tell whether it has paid off. The Inter

Parliamentary formant -- forum will meet at Stormont, how do you think

it will go down? I think it is part of the optics. Both sides will take

what they want but no decisions will be made.

Thousands braved the wane and stood for ours included -- juice two cat

Je Adams of the Queen on her Diamond Jubilee trap. -- thousands

braved the rain and stayed for hours to capture a glimpse of the

Queen. For anyone who has lost family who

were volunteers, to them it will be a very sad day it because he will

I am still a Republican. How does it feel to meet the Queen? Very

It is different days and shows how There was more than one political

story this week. It was not all fun A very long week for customers of

the Ulster Bank. The problems are not over yet. The issue is complex

and challenging but we are making progress. It will be next week.

schools can bank on a brighter future after a large amount of

money, 173 million, was made available for new buildings. For it

every school that announced today, as many need investment. There were

calls for investment in the water and sewerage system after heavy

rain brought some of the worst flooding seen in Northern Ireland

in years. The fire service, no response. Northern Ireland Water,

no response. It is despicable in this day and age. And of course,

there was a HANDSHAKE -- and of course, there was THAT handshake.

It is a further to a bid that has been cast to decide. It shows that

we are becoming a normal society. There is a story today about the

parlous the estate of an IRA apology. Martin McGuinness said it

was nonsense last night. It says they are going to decide that the

armed struggle was legitimate, yet apologised to security forces

victims. You cannot apologise if you do not think it is wrong.

Republicans have apologised to what they class as the innocent victims

of their campaign. He wrote down that road would be a step too far

from or even the most hardened Republican. There is a demand from

Unionists. Gregory Campbell said it was time for republicans to say

that their campaign was wrong. That is a total disavowal of everything

you believe in. I cannot see be grass roots supporting that.

would it make a difference to Unionists? I do not think it would

make a difference. I do not see how they could do that after what

Martin McGuinness said on Thursday. I do not think Unionists are

looking for that sort of gesture. If they are looking for anything it

is a government working in Northern Ireland for Northern Ireland.

had a good example of that this week, it was Stormont's chance to

shine. They failed miserably in their reaction to the floods.

live in East Belfast and at one stage I thought I would need a boat.

I could not get any services for six hours. If they cannot deal with

something that basic, and they knew it was going to happen, they have

had experience of this in the past five years and every single

occasion they have got it completely wrong. Handing out just

�1,000 is ridiculous. That will not play well with victims? I think