Browse content similar to 11/02/2018. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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Morning, everyone, and welcome
to the Sunday Politics. | 0:00:37 | 0:00:39 | |
I'm Sarah Smith. | 0:00:39 | 0:00:40 | |
And this is the programme that
will provide your essential briefing | 0:00:40 | 0:00:42 | |
on everything that's moving
and shaking in the | 0:00:42 | 0:00:44 | |
world of politics. | 0:00:44 | 0:00:46 | |
After all the waiting we're
finally going to hear | 0:00:46 | 0:00:48 | |
the Prime Minister's vision
for Britain's future relationship | 0:00:48 | 0:00:51 | |
with the European Union,
but not for another couple of weeks. | 0:00:51 | 0:00:54 | |
We'll look at what she might say. | 0:00:54 | 0:00:58 | |
Key to any agreement will be
whether we should bind our customs' | 0:00:58 | 0:01:00 | |
arrangements closely to the EU,
or strike out on our own. | 0:01:00 | 0:01:03 | |
We'll speak to leading figures
from both sides of the argument. | 0:01:03 | 0:01:06 | |
And Labour argue public
ownership of services | 0:01:06 | 0:01:10 | |
like the railways are
an "economic necessity". | 0:01:10 | 0:01:13 | |
We'll look at how
the policy could work | 0:01:13 | 0:01:15 | |
And coming up here -
amid speculation that a Stormont | 0:01:15 | 0:01:18 | |
deal is getting ever closer,
I'll be talking live | 0:01:18 | 0:01:20 | |
to the newly elected
president of Sinn Fein, | 0:01:20 | 0:01:22 | |
Mary-Lou McDonald. | 0:01:22 | 0:01:23 | |
Join me in half an hour. | 0:01:23 | 0:01:30 | |
Who needs the Winter Olympics
when there's plenty | 0:01:33 | 0:01:35 | |
of thrills, spills and potential
wipeouts in the world | 0:01:35 | 0:01:37 | |
of Westminster. | 0:01:37 | 0:01:41 | |
And with me today are three experts
who may very well go off piste: | 0:01:41 | 0:01:45 | |
Tom Newton Dunn from the Sun,
the Guardian's Zoe Williams | 0:01:45 | 0:01:47 | |
and Iain Martin from the Times. | 0:01:47 | 0:01:49 | |
So we hear that Theresa May
will finally be giving her | 0:01:49 | 0:01:51 | |
vision of a Brexit deal
in the next few weeks. | 0:01:51 | 0:01:54 | |
The news follows Mrs May hosting two
Brexit cabinet meetings this week | 0:01:54 | 0:01:57 | |
in an attempt to thrash out
the government's | 0:01:57 | 0:01:58 | |
negotiating position. | 0:01:58 | 0:02:00 | |
If reports are to be believed
not much was decided, | 0:02:00 | 0:02:02 | |
and so there will now have to be
a team building session | 0:02:02 | 0:02:05 | |
at the prime minister's
country residence Chequers. | 0:02:05 | 0:02:06 | |
Maybe a few trust exercises
will be in order. | 0:02:06 | 0:02:10 | |
At the moment however we're none
the wiser and the EU's Chief | 0:02:10 | 0:02:14 | |
Negotiator Michel Barnier seems
less than impressed. | 0:02:14 | 0:02:18 | |
To start the week the EU chief
negotiator, Michel Barnier, | 0:02:18 | 0:02:20 | |
made a trip to Downing Street
with Brexit secretary David Davis. | 0:02:20 | 0:02:26 | |
Pleasantries with the PM,
but the warning was clear. | 0:02:26 | 0:02:29 | |
Time has come to make choice. | 0:02:29 | 0:02:35 | |
All week the question was,
are the Cabinet running | 0:02:35 | 0:02:37 | |
away from making tough
decisions on Brexit? | 0:02:37 | 0:02:43 | |
As America woke up, the President
took a pop at the | 0:02:43 | 0:02:46 | |
National Health Service on Twitter. | 0:02:46 | 0:02:48 | |
But was it all fake news? | 0:02:48 | 0:02:50 | |
The Health Secretary hit back. | 0:02:50 | 0:02:55 | |
The Transport Secretary,
Chris Grayling, told the Commons | 0:02:55 | 0:02:58 | |
that yet again the East Coast
mainline franchise had failed, | 0:02:58 | 0:03:00 | |
with renationalisation an option. | 0:03:00 | 0:03:04 | |
While tensions in the
Conservative Party on Brexit | 0:03:04 | 0:03:06 | |
were on full display. | 0:03:06 | 0:03:14 | |
One leading Tory Remainer
did not hold back. | 0:03:16 | 0:03:18 | |
35 hard ideological Brexiteers
who are not Tories. | 0:03:18 | 0:03:20 | |
It's about time Theresa May stood up
to them and slung them out. | 0:03:20 | 0:03:24 | |
On Tuesday, deeds and words,
MPs celebrated 100 years since | 0:03:24 | 0:03:27 | |
some women were given the vote. | 0:03:27 | 0:03:31 | |
Westminster awash with suffragette
colours purple, green, and white. | 0:03:31 | 0:03:36 | |
Wednesday and Thursday,
the Brexit War Cabinet settled | 0:03:36 | 0:03:38 | |
in for crunch talks. | 0:03:38 | 0:03:41 | |
They were meant to decide
what the end state should look like. | 0:03:41 | 0:03:44 | |
Breakthrough? | 0:03:44 | 0:03:45 | |
Not yet. | 0:03:45 | 0:03:46 | |
Also on Thursday, a leaked EU paper
warned that the UK's single market | 0:03:46 | 0:03:49 | |
access in the Brexit transition
period could be revoked | 0:03:49 | 0:03:52 | |
in the event of a dispute. | 0:03:52 | 0:03:55 | |
Discourteous? | 0:03:55 | 0:03:57 | |
The Brexit secretary thought so. | 0:03:57 | 0:03:58 | |
It's not in good faith. | 0:03:58 | 0:04:00 | |
We think it's unwise
to publish that. | 0:04:00 | 0:04:03 | |
The week ended as it
began, with more warnings | 0:04:03 | 0:04:05 | |
from Michel Barnier on Ireland,
the customs union, | 0:04:05 | 0:04:07 | |
and continuing EU UK disputes. | 0:04:07 | 0:04:11 | |
If this disagreement persists,
the transition is not a given. | 0:04:11 | 0:04:18 | |
So, at the end of a busy week why
not let off steam with a glass | 0:04:18 | 0:04:22 | |
or two of Brexit juice,
that's English sparkling wine | 0:04:22 | 0:04:24 | |
to you and me, at the annual
Conservative fundraiser the black | 0:04:24 | 0:04:27 | |
and white ball. | 0:04:27 | 0:04:29 | |
The highest bid of the night? | 0:04:29 | 0:04:31 | |
£55,000 to spend a day with the PM. | 0:04:31 | 0:04:39 | |
We could not afford to get her on to
this programme but we will talk to | 0:04:42 | 0:04:46 | |
our panel of experts to find out
what is going on behind the | 0:04:46 | 0:04:50 | |
headlines. Iain Martin, by now we
thought we would know more about the | 0:04:50 | 0:04:56 | |
government's final negotiating
position. We had two Brexit | 0:04:56 | 0:04:59 | |
subcommittee meetings this week.
They were meant to come to a | 0:04:59 | 0:05:04 | |
conclusion I thought. Are we any
further forward? No. It is possible | 0:05:04 | 0:05:10 | |
this is a cunning baldric style plan
to make Britain look as confused as | 0:05:10 | 0:05:15 | |
possible. A very, very cunning plan.
Very cunning. But the chances of | 0:05:15 | 0:05:22 | |
that are highly unlikely. It seems
the meeting has happened, there was | 0:05:22 | 0:05:26 | |
discussion, the Prime Minister did
not express an opinion. The Prime | 0:05:26 | 0:05:29 | |
Minister was more interested in
secrecy and in fear of a leak, but | 0:05:29 | 0:05:35 | |
it seems there was not much to leak
anyway, because there was not a | 0:05:35 | 0:05:40 | |
decision. Actually, the UK's closer
to a position than people commonly | 0:05:40 | 0:05:47 | |
understand, definitely out of the
single market, but on this crucial | 0:05:47 | 0:05:52 | |
question of the customs union, or a
customs agreement after, there is | 0:05:52 | 0:05:57 | |
still no decision taken. I think the
feeling at Westminster, people on | 0:05:57 | 0:06:02 | |
both sides of the argument seems to
be will someone decide, make the | 0:06:02 | 0:06:07 | |
case and then get stuck into the
talks which lets remember our | 0:06:07 | 0:06:11 | |
supposed to begin in six or seven
weeks' time. This Brexit | 0:06:11 | 0:06:17 | |
subcommittee is split between
Brexiteers and Remainers. The Prime | 0:06:17 | 0:06:21 | |
Minister sits in the middle we
understand not really expressing a | 0:06:21 | 0:06:24 | |
view, that is put together for
careful political reasons but it | 0:06:24 | 0:06:29 | |
cannot continue, can it? I think the
presentation at the minute cannot | 0:06:29 | 0:06:33 | |
come to a decision because they have
not done their homework, student | 0:06:33 | 0:06:39 | |
essay style crisis conclusion and in
the case of David Davis you could | 0:06:39 | 0:06:43 | |
believe that is true but the main
reason they cannot come together is | 0:06:43 | 0:06:49 | |
because of an implacable deadlock.
There is no compromise between in | 0:06:49 | 0:06:53 | |
the customs union or not in the
customs union. One side has to | 0:06:53 | 0:06:57 | |
vanquish the other. The Remainers
really have to think it would be | 0:06:57 | 0:07:03 | |
economic suicide to leave the
customs union but they are also | 0:07:03 | 0:07:06 | |
really aware that this deadlock is
grinding government to halt. It is | 0:07:06 | 0:07:13 | |
national duty pulling them in two
directions. They will ultimately be | 0:07:13 | 0:07:16 | |
the ones to say I do not want to cut
the baby in half, you have the baby. | 0:07:16 | 0:07:22 | |
At some point it will have to go to
the country because it is a stupid | 0:07:22 | 0:07:26 | |
idea to cut a baby in half expect
what will happen for the Prime | 0:07:26 | 0:07:31 | |
Minister who will have to make a
decision for the kind Brexit she has | 0:07:31 | 0:07:35 | |
advocated? She will do that and the
danger is huge. She will have to get | 0:07:35 | 0:07:41 | |
off the perch at some point. We have
been sitting in these chairs for 20 | 0:07:41 | 0:07:45 | |
months saying the Prime Minister has
to choose between prioritising | 0:07:45 | 0:07:49 | |
market access and prioritise and
sovereignty. That is the simple | 0:07:49 | 0:07:53 | |
case. You may get a bit of both out
of the EU but you will get more of | 0:07:53 | 0:07:56 | |
one than the other. I think
interestingly, there is a lot of | 0:07:56 | 0:08:02 | |
movement going on under the surface
which Number Ten are desperate not | 0:08:02 | 0:08:05 | |
to show any of the machinations of
it because they want to present a | 0:08:05 | 0:08:10 | |
complete finished article. There is
some sense of consensus growing in | 0:08:10 | 0:08:14 | |
the Brexit community I am told, not
to sign off on a customs union but | 0:08:14 | 0:08:22 | |
to sign off on a semi-single market
alignment, soap aligning with all | 0:08:22 | 0:08:26 | |
the single market rules on
manufactured goods is what I am told | 0:08:26 | 0:08:30 | |
they are beginning to agree to do,
which they feel they should do | 0:08:30 | 0:08:35 | |
because British companies will go
ahead and stand by all the EU | 0:08:35 | 0:08:38 | |
regulations because that is what
they want to continue to sell into | 0:08:38 | 0:08:43 | |
the EU. There are some members of
the committee who are opposed to | 0:08:43 | 0:08:47 | |
this. Boris Johnson is the main one.
If they do agree to allow heavily on | 0:08:47 | 0:08:51 | |
manufactured goods but not on
services, in other words they choose | 0:08:51 | 0:08:54 | |
what to Jerry picked and can agree
what to cherish pick -- cherry pick, | 0:08:54 | 0:09:02 | |
but if they choose what to align on
Ben Boris Johnson has do make a | 0:09:02 | 0:09:06 | |
decision himself. | 0:09:06 | 0:09:12 | |
decision himself. We could
potentially see some Cabinet | 0:09:12 | 0:09:15 | |
resignations and I put Boris Johnson
at the head of it in two or three | 0:09:15 | 0:09:18 | |
weeks' time. That is the root of the
potential compromise. On services, | 0:09:18 | 0:09:27 | |
on financial services, there is not
a functioning single market. The | 0:09:27 | 0:09:33 | |
question comes down to manufactured
goods. A lot of the regulations have | 0:09:33 | 0:09:38 | |
their origins in global standards,
something like the car industry. Is | 0:09:38 | 0:09:42 | |
Boris Johnson going to find himself
in a position where he will die in a | 0:09:42 | 0:09:47 | |
ditch over trying to make the UK
diverged from globally set standards | 0:09:47 | 0:09:52 | |
on carburettors? It would be an
interesting position if he does. It | 0:09:52 | 0:09:58 | |
sounds ridiculous but it also sounds
like the sort of thing he will do. | 0:09:58 | 0:10:03 | |
We will come back to this later in
the programme. | 0:10:03 | 0:10:07 | |
As it's still not clear
what the government wants its final | 0:10:07 | 0:10:10 | |
relationship with the EU will look
like, we thought we'd | 0:10:10 | 0:10:13 | |
try to help out by looking
in detail at the key dilemma, | 0:10:13 | 0:10:15 | |
when it comes to working out
a customs arrangement, | 0:10:15 | 0:10:18 | |
should we hug the EU close,
or break out on our own? | 0:10:18 | 0:10:20 | |
We've lined up two politicians
from either side of the argument | 0:10:20 | 0:10:23 | |
and, just for a change,
they'll be asking | 0:10:23 | 0:10:25 | |
the questions not me. | 0:10:25 | 0:10:26 | |
So I'm joined by the soon to be
former Conservative MEP and leading | 0:10:26 | 0:10:29 | |
figure in the Leave campaign
Daniel Hannan and by the former | 0:10:29 | 0:10:32 | |
Labour frontbencher and supporter
of Open Britain Seema Malhotra. | 0:10:32 | 0:10:34 | |
Earlier this morning we tossed
a coin to see who would go first. | 0:10:34 | 0:10:38 | |
Daniel Hannan won and he agreed that
he would go first. | 0:10:38 | 0:10:41 | |
So here with thoughts
on what our end | 0:10:41 | 0:10:43 | |
relationship should be. | 0:10:43 | 0:10:48 | |
90% of the world's economic growth
over the next 15 years will come | 0:10:48 | 0:10:52 | |
from outside the European Union.
Britain is a maritime nation, linked | 0:10:52 | 0:10:57 | |
to the world's fastest-growing
economies by language, law, culture | 0:10:57 | 0:11:01 | |
and kinship. But we cannot sign
trade deals, not while we are in the | 0:11:01 | 0:11:06 | |
EU's customs union. Staying in the
customs union after we leave, would | 0:11:06 | 0:11:10 | |
be the worst of all worlds. It would
give Brussels 100% of our trade | 0:11:10 | 0:11:15 | |
policy with 0% input from us. In
order to take advantage of Brexit, | 0:11:15 | 0:11:22 | |
we need to set our own regulations.
Sometimes, for reasons of economies | 0:11:22 | 0:11:26 | |
of scale, we might want to match
what the EU is doing. If we do want | 0:11:26 | 0:11:30 | |
to keep elements of the single
market, it must be through agreement | 0:11:30 | 0:11:35 | |
and on a case-by-case basis. In
1980, the states now in the European | 0:11:35 | 0:11:40 | |
Union counted for 30% of the world's
GDP. Today that figure is 15% and | 0:11:40 | 0:11:46 | |
falling. Britain needs to raise its
size. Our future bright, our future | 0:11:46 | 0:11:53 | |
is global. | 0:11:53 | 0:11:55 | |
Well, Seema and Dan are with me now. | 0:11:55 | 0:11:57 | |
And just to explain the rules. | 0:11:57 | 0:12:03 | |
Seema Malhotra has five minutes to
interrogate down. This week a Tory | 0:12:03 | 0:12:08 | |
MP said I think the real concern
about the direction of travel when | 0:12:08 | 0:12:12 | |
it comes to Brexit, we are to real
crunch point and the government has | 0:12:12 | 0:12:17 | |
not worked out 19 months on what the
endgame is and we need to know. That | 0:12:17 | 0:12:22 | |
is pretty clear, isn't it? You and
others said Brexit will be easy so | 0:12:22 | 0:12:28 | |
why is this the case? Nothing
worthwhile is ever easy. I do not | 0:12:28 | 0:12:35 | |
accept that the government has not
made it position clear. It made it | 0:12:35 | 0:12:41 | |
clear in Lancaster House beach and a
series of white papers since. As | 0:12:41 | 0:12:45 | |
Theresa May says we want to keep
control of our laws, taxes and | 0:12:45 | 0:12:49 | |
borders. But within that, we want to
have the closest possible | 0:12:49 | 0:12:53 | |
relationship with the rest of the
EU, compatible with being a | 0:12:53 | 0:12:56 | |
sovereign country. We want to be its
best friend and ally. We will align | 0:12:56 | 0:13:04 | |
with other countries but on our own
terms. Things are not going | 0:13:04 | 0:13:07 | |
according to plan. You and others
said we will be keeping key | 0:13:07 | 0:13:12 | |
agencies. David Davis said we would
keep the agencies but now they are | 0:13:12 | 0:13:16 | |
leaving. The European medicines
agency is heading for Amsterdam, the | 0:13:16 | 0:13:21 | |
European banking agency will go to
Paris. That is 2000 highly skilled | 0:13:21 | 0:13:25 | |
jobs being lost from the capital.
Isn't this a high price we are | 0:13:25 | 0:13:31 | |
paying for certainty? If you're that
fixated on Eurocrats jobs then you | 0:13:31 | 0:13:40 | |
there is something wrong with your
priorities. All of the worries we | 0:13:40 | 0:13:45 | |
had about job losses turned out to
be nonsense. Instead of losing half | 0:13:45 | 0:13:48 | |
a million, we have gained half a
million. More people are working | 0:13:48 | 0:13:52 | |
than ever before. I never claimed we
would be keeping these Euro agencies | 0:13:52 | 0:13:57 | |
in the UK. Of course if you leave
the EU you leave these Euro agencies | 0:13:57 | 0:14:01 | |
and you no longer have them on our
soil. We will make our own | 0:14:01 | 0:14:09 | |
regulations. You are calling these
agencies Eurocrats, these are people | 0:14:09 | 0:14:13 | |
helping with key sectors of our
economy, scientists, those who are | 0:14:13 | 0:14:18 | |
experts in finance and other
sectors. I agree that Britain could | 0:14:18 | 0:14:21 | |
trade more with the world and we
need to, but evidence of leaks from | 0:14:21 | 0:14:26 | |
the government this week shows that
the impact of free trade deals | 0:14:26 | 0:14:30 | |
around the world will no way
compensate for the loss of trade | 0:14:30 | 0:14:34 | |
with the EU which a hard Brexit
would do for the UK. If you don't | 0:14:34 | 0:14:38 | |
believe me, you can listen to the
words of the Prime Minister who said | 0:14:38 | 0:14:42 | |
during the referendum we export more
to Ireland than we do to China, | 0:14:42 | 0:14:46 | |
twice as much to Belgium as we do to
India, it is not realistic to think | 0:14:46 | 0:14:52 | |
we could replace European trade than
these markets. We export more to | 0:14:52 | 0:14:56 | |
Ireland than China, that is our
problem! Which is the better | 0:14:56 | 0:15:01 | |
long-term growth prospects? Don't
you agree that there will be an | 0:15:01 | 0:15:04 | |
impact on British businesses and
families even in the short term and | 0:15:04 | 0:15:07 | |
isn't it right that you raise that
risk with the British people? | 0:15:07 | 0:15:12 | |
Obviously we want free and
frictionless trade with the EU and | 0:15:12 | 0:15:14 | |
the freedom to my trade deals
further of broad. EU does not have a | 0:15:14 | 0:15:22 | |
trade deal with US, with India and
old friends like Australia, the idea | 0:15:22 | 0:15:30 | |
that we cannot do trade deals and
bring benefits to this country I | 0:15:30 | 0:15:35 | |
think is incredibly defeatist. Are
we really saying it is a good idea | 0:15:35 | 0:15:39 | |
to sell more to Ireland with five
mil in people than to China with | 0:15:39 | 0:15:42 | |
more than a billion. -- 5 million
people. Their study after study | 0:15:42 | 0:15:49 | |
which shows the proximity we have
two nations goes a long way to | 0:15:49 | 0:15:53 | |
determining our economic links, that
is not just the case for us but for | 0:15:53 | 0:15:56 | |
countries around the world. Of
course we can do more. We have a | 0:15:56 | 0:16:04 | |
trade surplus with the US already. I
have spoken to investors from other | 0:16:04 | 0:16:10 | |
countries who say they want to come
and do more in the UK but the point | 0:16:10 | 0:16:12 | |
is, part of the reason they do that
is because we have access and they | 0:16:12 | 0:16:16 | |
have access to the European markets
of 500 million people to sell those | 0:16:16 | 0:16:20 | |
goods as well. What do you say to
the genuine concerns from Nissan and | 0:16:20 | 0:16:25 | |
Honda, now even the Japanese
ambassador talking about a challenge | 0:16:25 | 0:16:29 | |
to the profitability of those
companies in the UK, and the threat | 0:16:29 | 0:16:32 | |
they may have to leave those
operations and go elsewhere? They | 0:16:32 | 0:16:37 | |
made those threats during the
referendum and after the vote was in | 0:16:37 | 0:16:41 | |
they confirmed that not only were
they staying here but Nissan was | 0:16:41 | 0:16:45 | |
increasing its productivity and
activity in the UK. I think you | 0:16:45 | 0:16:48 | |
should look at what they are doing
rather than what they are saying. | 0:16:48 | 0:16:51 | |
This idea that we are defined by our
geography is an old-fashioned | 0:16:51 | 0:16:55 | |
18th-century way of looking at
trade. In the modern age where we | 0:16:55 | 0:16:58 | |
have low freight costs, the Internet
and cheap flights, geographical | 0:16:58 | 0:17:03 | |
proximity has never mattered less.
We are linked by language, law, | 0:17:03 | 0:17:09 | |
cultural, legal systems and
accountancy systems to the fastest | 0:17:09 | 0:17:11 | |
growing con is the planet. | 0:17:11 | 0:17:18 | |
I would like to ask you, you have
set all your vision for how you | 0:17:18 | 0:17:22 | |
would like to see our future
relationship with the EU. How | 0:17:22 | 0:17:25 | |
confident are you the Prime Minister
will outline a clear vision soon and | 0:17:25 | 0:17:29 | |
it will outline with Ewels? She's
outlined the broad principles | 0:17:29 | 0:17:33 | |
already. -- with yours. Fleshing out
issues like how to make the Irish | 0:17:33 | 0:17:38 | |
border were, how to make the
facilitation of customs work. This | 0:17:38 | 0:17:42 | |
thing nobody has explained what we
can do in terms of customs is not | 0:17:42 | 0:17:46 | |
true. The government produced a
lengthy paper talking about how we | 0:17:46 | 0:17:49 | |
can do things like expand the ...
It's worth noting that both ahead of | 0:17:49 | 0:17:58 | |
HMR see here and his equivalent in
the Republic of Ireland have said | 0:17:58 | 0:18:01 | |
there is no need for a Customs
border, that companies can make | 0:18:01 | 0:18:05 | |
their customs declarations in the
way they make their tax | 0:18:05 | 0:18:10 | |
declarations. They are now
emphatically not choosing to listen | 0:18:10 | 0:18:13 | |
to the experts when they say they
don't need a hard order in Ireland. | 0:18:13 | 0:18:15 | |
Thanks. | 0:18:15 | 0:18:20 | |
Now it's the turn of Seema
to be grilled but first, | 0:18:20 | 0:18:23 | |
here's her thoughts on how
our future relationship | 0:18:23 | 0:18:25 | |
with the EU should look. | 0:18:25 | 0:18:26 | |
I respect the result of the
referendum. We need to move forward | 0:18:26 | 0:18:30 | |
to find a deal that protects jobs in
the economy. 43% of all of our trade | 0:18:30 | 0:18:36 | |
is done with the EU. Staying inside
the customs union gives us tariff | 0:18:36 | 0:18:42 | |
free trade access to our many new
partners. Issues surrounding | 0:18:42 | 0:18:46 | |
immigration and sovereignty can be
addressed while staying in the | 0:18:46 | 0:18:49 | |
customs union and the single market.
But on terms that we negotiate. We | 0:18:49 | 0:18:53 | |
can also then trade freely with
countries the EU has deals with. | 0:18:53 | 0:18:59 | |
Deals that we have helped negotiate.
And staying in the customs union is | 0:18:59 | 0:19:04 | |
key to a solution on Ireland. Our
select committee found that it is | 0:19:04 | 0:19:08 | |
unclear how we can avoid a hardboard
if we leave the customs union. I | 0:19:08 | 0:19:14 | |
agree we need reform and greater
controls on the freedom of movement, | 0:19:14 | 0:19:17 | |
but people did not vote to become
poorer. Let's leave the European | 0:19:17 | 0:19:21 | |
Union in a way that puts the
prosperity of families and | 0:19:21 | 0:19:24 | |
businesses first. | 0:19:24 | 0:19:27 | |
So as before you have five
minutes to give a grilling. | 0:19:27 | 0:19:29 | |
Off you go. | 0:19:29 | 0:19:31 | |
Two weeks ago Jeremy Corbyn says
said he was against staying in the | 0:19:31 | 0:19:36 | |
customs union because it is
protectionist against developing | 0:19:36 | 0:19:40 | |
countries, do you agree? It's
important to balance what we do need | 0:19:40 | 0:19:43 | |
to see change in terms of
international trade and support for | 0:19:43 | 0:19:47 | |
developing countries. But also to
recognise the contribution that | 0:19:47 | 0:19:50 | |
being in the customs union and the
European Union has made for our | 0:19:50 | 0:19:53 | |
prosperity... Do you agree with
Jeremy Corbyn? I think that a lot | 0:19:53 | 0:20:00 | |
has been done to support
development, International | 0:20:00 | 0:20:03 | |
development... Forgive me, that's a
different question... We're not | 0:20:03 | 0:20:06 | |
talking about that, do you agree
that the customs union is | 0:20:06 | 0:20:10 | |
protectionist against developing
countries? It can be for those | 0:20:10 | 0:20:13 | |
countries that are in the customs
union. That's very understood | 0:20:13 | 0:20:20 | |
economics. It encourages trade
creation and development between | 0:20:20 | 0:20:25 | |
those countries, but it doesn't
preclude, as has been shown by the | 0:20:25 | 0:20:30 | |
over 60 trade agreements we have is
a European Union with countries | 0:20:30 | 0:20:33 | |
around the rolled, from having
strong relationships with other | 0:20:33 | 0:20:36 | |
countries. That's what I believe. --
countries around the world. There | 0:20:36 | 0:20:40 | |
are lots of things we do not produce
ourselves. We have to impose tariffs | 0:20:40 | 0:20:45 | |
on oranges. In yours and my
constituencies there are not orange | 0:20:45 | 0:20:50 | |
plantations. Is it a reasonable
thing that to protect Mediterranean | 0:20:50 | 0:20:55 | |
orange growers we should be
discriminating against producers in | 0:20:55 | 0:20:58 | |
Africa, the Americas, developing
countries, at a cost our own | 0:20:58 | 0:21:02 | |
consumers? I believe what you can do
is negotiate across the world in | 0:21:02 | 0:21:07 | |
terms of how you encourage greater
free trade and greater ways in which | 0:21:07 | 0:21:10 | |
we can trade with different nations.
That's what we do also already. We | 0:21:10 | 0:21:15 | |
had no Norma 's track record in
investing in farmers in Africa... On | 0:21:15 | 0:21:20 | |
that point... -- we have had an
enormous track record. That means we | 0:21:20 | 0:21:25 | |
are giving Brussels total control of
our trade policies but we are no | 0:21:25 | 0:21:29 | |
longer EU members so we have no
control. Almost 50% of our trade is | 0:21:29 | 0:21:33 | |
with the EU. Over 70% of the
companies... Over 70% of companies | 0:21:33 | 0:21:41 | |
that export to the EU, that is jobs
your constituents and my | 0:21:41 | 0:21:45 | |
constituents will be dependent on,
over 90% of that being small and | 0:21:45 | 0:21:49 | |
medium-size enterprises. They
look... I'm not having much joy | 0:21:49 | 0:21:53 | |
getting answers to my questions. You
are going off on a tangent. Let me | 0:21:53 | 0:21:57 | |
have another go. I'm saying we can
do both and that is what we should | 0:21:57 | 0:22:02 | |
be doing. You think leaving the EU
but staying in the customs union so | 0:22:02 | 0:22:06 | |
Brussels controls 100% of our | 0:22:06 | 0:22:12 | |
Brussels controls 100% of our trade
but we have zero input... You think | 0:22:14 | 0:22:15 | |
that gives us more influence in
world trade than taking our own | 0:22:15 | 0:22:17 | |
voice and vote in the world trade
organisation and be able to do our | 0:22:17 | 0:22:21 | |
own deals, is that what you are
saying? When you talk about the WTO | 0:22:21 | 0:22:25 | |
rules, if you look at the
government's analysis which was an | 0:22:25 | 0:22:28 | |
average of other studies, it shows
even in the South East if there is a | 0:22:28 | 0:22:33 | |
withdrawal based on... I'm going to
have one more go to get an answer | 0:22:33 | 0:22:36 | |
because you are telling me lots of
interesting things which are nothing | 0:22:36 | 0:22:38 | |
to do with what I'm asking. Let me
have another go... The highest | 0:22:38 | 0:22:43 | |
tariffs imposed by the customs union
are on the items that most | 0:22:43 | 0:22:50 | |
negatively impact people on low
incomes, particularly food, | 0:22:50 | 0:22:54 | |
clothing, and footwear. They pay a
proportionately higher chunk of | 0:22:54 | 0:22:58 | |
their weekly Budget on these
commodities, these basic things. | 0:22:58 | 0:23:00 | |
They are the most badly hit. We are
clobbering poor people in this | 0:23:00 | 0:23:04 | |
country in order to hurt developing
nations. How can you come as a | 0:23:04 | 0:23:08 | |
progressive politician with a proud
history of standing up for people | 0:23:08 | 0:23:12 | |
who are underprivileged, now stand
there and defend a system that | 0:23:12 | 0:23:16 | |
forces us to give more to wealthy
French farmers than poor African | 0:23:16 | 0:23:21 | |
farmers, and forces the highest
bills to be paid by the lowest | 0:23:21 | 0:23:23 | |
income people in Britain? I will
fundamentally disagree with you. I | 0:23:23 | 0:23:27 | |
believe being a member of the EU has
been fundamental for our prosperity, | 0:23:27 | 0:23:32 | |
for families and businesses. What
you fail to highlight is numerous | 0:23:32 | 0:23:37 | |
studies that show many British
families are worse off as a result | 0:23:37 | 0:23:42 | |
of us having had the referendum and
now the uncertainty that is | 0:23:42 | 0:23:46 | |
followed. People have already
suffered. -- that has followed. You | 0:23:46 | 0:23:54 | |
are still not answering. Let me have
another crack at this. The countries | 0:23:54 | 0:23:59 | |
closest to the EU economically. The
countries that have opted to | 0:23:59 | 0:24:02 | |
parallel or join the single market
Norway, Switzerland, Iceland, | 0:24:02 | 0:24:07 | |
Liechtenstein, none of them is
interested in joining the customs | 0:24:07 | 0:24:11 | |
union. Why do you think that is?
They have separate arrangements. | 0:24:11 | 0:24:15 | |
They have arrangements with each
other. They have ways of resolving | 0:24:15 | 0:24:19 | |
disputes. It is like a mini European
Union in the way that they work | 0:24:19 | 0:24:23 | |
together. I believe that we could
consider approaching those countries | 0:24:23 | 0:24:29 | |
to see whether that would be an
arrangement that could work for | 0:24:29 | 0:24:31 | |
Britain. That would mean leaving the
customs union, right? Potentially | 0:24:31 | 0:24:37 | |
alongside how we negotiate being in
the customs union. Fundamental for | 0:24:37 | 0:24:41 | |
peace in Northern Ireland and the
Good Friday Agreement. It's not just | 0:24:41 | 0:24:44 | |
me saying that, it's the Irish
government, the head of the Irish | 0:24:44 | 0:24:48 | |
police, and the Irish people. Time
is up. Thank you for your questions. | 0:24:48 | 0:24:53 | |
What you are advocating is not
Labour policy. Do you believe you | 0:24:53 | 0:24:57 | |
will change the mind of Jeremy
Corbyn? You know there is a debate | 0:24:57 | 0:25:02 | |
going on in the Labour Party. That
is not unexpected, because as the | 0:25:02 | 0:25:09 | |
situation changes, as new facts come
to light, as we have to consider | 0:25:09 | 0:25:13 | |
what life will be like with the end
state post the transition, we will | 0:25:13 | 0:25:17 | |
have that debate. It is certainly
the case that the range of views | 0:25:17 | 0:25:21 | |
across the Labour Party are far less
in terms of the spectrum of what's | 0:25:21 | 0:25:24 | |
going on in the Conservative Party.
The fundamental issue is we have a | 0:25:24 | 0:25:29 | |
Prime Minister and cabinet that have
no idea about end state. They have | 0:25:29 | 0:25:33 | |
failed to reach any sort of
agreement after two days away this | 0:25:33 | 0:25:37 | |
week. And I think it is embarrassing
for us as a nation that 19 months | 0:25:37 | 0:25:43 | |
after the referendum we are in such
disarray. Thank you both very much | 0:25:43 | 0:25:46 | |
for coming in and asking the
questions. | 0:25:46 | 0:25:49 | |
And those of you in the South
of England will be lucky | 0:25:49 | 0:25:51 | |
enough to see more of Dan Hannan
as he'll be appearing | 0:25:51 | 0:25:55 | |
in the Sunday Politics South
in just over ten minutes. | 0:25:55 | 0:25:56 | |
And you can find
more Brexit analysis | 0:25:56 | 0:25:58 | |
and explanation on the BBC website,
at bbc.co.uk/Brexit. | 0:25:58 | 0:26:00 | |
The recent collapse
of Carillion and the ending | 0:26:00 | 0:26:03 | |
of the East Coast Rail franchise
early has emboldened the | 0:26:03 | 0:26:05 | |
Labour Party to push its agenda
for renationalising key services | 0:26:05 | 0:26:07 | |
such as rail, water and energy. | 0:26:07 | 0:26:09 | |
But that's not all, the party
is looking into supporting local | 0:26:09 | 0:26:11 | |
economies by helping councils do
things like bringing | 0:26:11 | 0:26:13 | |
more services in house,
using local small businesses | 0:26:13 | 0:26:16 | |
where possible and helping to set up
new small scale energy companies. | 0:26:16 | 0:26:22 | |
So, is the plan workable,
and can it help Labour shed | 0:26:22 | 0:26:24 | |
the image that more state control
will lead to inefficiency and a lack | 0:26:24 | 0:26:28 | |
of innovation and investment? | 0:26:28 | 0:26:29 | |
Elizabeth Glinka has
travelled to Preston, | 0:26:29 | 0:26:30 | |
a Labour council the party
are championing as a model | 0:26:30 | 0:26:33 | |
for the future, to find out more. | 0:26:33 | 0:26:41 | |
When he visited in the 1850s car
Marks said industrial Preston might | 0:26:47 | 0:26:52 | |
be the staging post for an economic
revolution. It's taken 160 years but | 0:26:52 | 0:26:56 | |
he may have been onto. -- Karl Marx
said. Preston described in the press | 0:26:56 | 0:27:04 | |
as a pilgrimage for London folk.
LAUGHTER | 0:27:04 | 0:27:10 | |
The Shadow Chancellor just dropping
in this week to heap praise on | 0:27:10 | 0:27:14 | |
Preston's new locally focused
economic plan. Nowhere is that plan | 0:27:14 | 0:27:20 | |
more visible than at the city's
trendy undercover market. Traders | 0:27:20 | 0:27:25 | |
rush to finish their new stalls
ahead of next week's reopening. The | 0:27:25 | 0:27:30 | |
so-called Preston model borrows
heavily from similar schemes in the | 0:27:30 | 0:27:34 | |
American rust belt. It installs the
virtues of keeping more services | 0:27:34 | 0:27:39 | |
in-house using worker let
cooperatives. And when it comes to | 0:27:39 | 0:27:42 | |
big contracts like the redevelopment
of this beautiful Victorian market, | 0:27:42 | 0:27:48 | |
they go not to the overextended big
boys like a religion but to smaller, | 0:27:48 | 0:27:52 | |
local firms, keeping the money in
the area. -- like Carillion but to | 0:27:52 | 0:28:01 | |
smaller, local firms. Matt Brown, a
local boy motivated by what he saw | 0:28:01 | 0:28:05 | |
as the continued decline of a once
great city, is behind this. We came | 0:28:05 | 0:28:09 | |
to the conclusion that a fightback
we've got to do it ourselves. We | 0:28:09 | 0:28:13 | |
cannot be dependent on central
government that is cutting back on | 0:28:13 | 0:28:16 | |
money. The public sector is pretty
much buying locally from local | 0:28:16 | 0:28:22 | |
suppliers. We are looking to form
cooperatives. We're selling our own | 0:28:22 | 0:28:26 | |
energy in partnership with other
councils. Pensions are invested | 0:28:26 | 0:28:30 | |
locally. These alternatives around
the world. In American cities like | 0:28:30 | 0:28:35 | |
York, Cleveland, and Barcelona,
people are waking up to the fact | 0:28:35 | 0:28:38 | |
that we have an economy that works
for the top 1%. -- like New York and | 0:28:38 | 0:28:42 | |
Cleveland. And the rest of us are
basically fighting for the scraps. | 0:28:42 | 0:28:48 | |
Under the model the council has
spent an additional £4 million | 0:28:48 | 0:28:52 | |
locally since 2012. It has also
persuaded universities and hospitals | 0:28:52 | 0:28:58 | |
to redirect their spending towards
local suppliers. And it isn't just | 0:28:58 | 0:29:02 | |
Preston, a number of other Labour
authorities are trying something | 0:29:02 | 0:29:04 | |
new. We have local councils now that
have set up energy companies to | 0:29:04 | 0:29:10 | |
provide cheaper, renewable energy
foot we have others running bus | 0:29:10 | 0:29:15 | |
networks. -- cheaper, renewable
energy and we have others running | 0:29:15 | 0:29:22 | |
bus networks. It is a way of getting
best value for money as well as | 0:29:22 | 0:29:25 | |
Democratic controlled of services.
Your critics might say this is | 0:29:25 | 0:29:31 | |
cuddly, cooperative windowdressing
for an agenda which, long-term, is | 0:29:31 | 0:29:36 | |
about mass renationalisation, which
you think the public would not be | 0:29:36 | 0:29:39 | |
keen on.
CHUCKLES | 0:29:39 | 0:29:41 | |
How sceptical people can be. I am a
socialist. We should share our | 0:29:41 | 0:29:45 | |
wealth. We have councillors going
out to get elected. When they get | 0:29:45 | 0:29:50 | |
elected they say they will use our
council resources locally and in | 0:29:50 | 0:29:53 | |
that way we can benefit local
people. Is it back to the future? It | 0:29:53 | 0:29:59 | |
was revealed this week the
government may be on the brink of | 0:29:59 | 0:30:02 | |
renationalising the East Coast
mainline. Labour's frontbencher has | 0:30:02 | 0:30:06 | |
been clear about its aspiration to
renationalise not just a rail but | 0:30:06 | 0:30:10 | |
energy, the Post Office, and even
water. This weekend the party held a | 0:30:10 | 0:30:15 | |
conference to discuss the expansion
of the Preston model, but others | 0:30:15 | 0:30:18 | |
remain less convinced by its wisdom.
This idea is very popular nowadays, | 0:30:18 | 0:30:24 | |
both on the political right, people
like Trump promoting it, and on the | 0:30:24 | 0:30:27 | |
political left. But it is a failure
to understand the benefits of trade. | 0:30:27 | 0:30:33 | |
The idea you can enrich yourself
with the border. I draw a line | 0:30:33 | 0:30:39 | |
around an area. And somehow that
will make us better off is magical | 0:30:39 | 0:30:42 | |
thinking. How you become better off
is through becoming more productive. | 0:30:42 | 0:30:47 | |
These ideas are tricks for becoming
richer that involve boundaries. It | 0:30:47 | 0:30:53 | |
is an abiding fantasy, but it is a
fantasy. The doubters may doubt, but | 0:30:53 | 0:30:58 | |
in a post-Carillion world labour is
convinced public opinion is pulling | 0:30:58 | 0:31:02 | |
in its direction. | 0:31:02 | 0:31:05 | |
Well, to help me to understand
more about Labour's | 0:31:05 | 0:31:07 | |
plans I'm joined by Labour's Shadow
Transport Secretary Andy McDonald | 0:31:07 | 0:31:10 | |
who's in Newcastle. | 0:31:10 | 0:31:14 | |
Good morning, thank you for joining
us. John McDonnell says the plans to | 0:31:14 | 0:31:22 | |
re-nationalise energy, water and
rail would cost absolutely nothing. | 0:31:22 | 0:31:25 | |
That sounds too good to be true.
Explain how it could work? In terms | 0:31:25 | 0:31:32 | |
of the rail Wales, it would bring
the railways back into public | 0:31:32 | 0:31:36 | |
ownership at no cost at all. -- in
terms of the railways. We would | 0:31:36 | 0:31:42 | |
bring them back once the franchises
expire. That would be considerable | 0:31:42 | 0:31:49 | |
savings of £1 billion per annum.
Then you will have to find £70 | 0:31:49 | 0:31:53 | |
billion for the water industry,
nearly 40 billion for the National | 0:31:53 | 0:31:57 | |
Grid, how can that cost nothing?
Because you would be acquiring an | 0:31:57 | 0:32:05 | |
asset, you would be acquiring an
asset, you would be paying back the | 0:32:05 | 0:32:11 | |
revenues which you derive over the
businesses over time and you would | 0:32:11 | 0:32:15 | |
keep the costs down for the
consumer. So you would be adding to | 0:32:15 | 0:32:19 | |
the national debt and you would have
to pay interest on that debt which | 0:32:19 | 0:32:23 | |
you would do out of the revenue you
get from the companies, but you also | 0:32:23 | 0:32:28 | |
say it will cost less from the
consumers that bills would come | 0:32:28 | 0:32:30 | |
down. If you have £30.5 billion of
dividends paid out, if you run | 0:32:30 | 0:32:39 | |
things on a not-for-profit basis, it
can ensure that customers can get | 0:32:39 | 0:32:44 | |
the best possible returns. That
profit might be good for customers | 0:32:44 | 0:32:47 | |
but it does not sound good for
paying back the interest on the | 0:32:47 | 0:32:50 | |
loans that you took out for buying
the organisations in the first | 0:32:50 | 0:32:55 | |
place? You heard John McDonnell
express the analogy of having a | 0:32:55 | 0:33:00 | |
mortgage over a property. You have
acquired the assets, you have the | 0:33:00 | 0:33:04 | |
income derived from renting it out,
it pays the gas it and you have | 0:33:04 | 0:33:08 | |
still got it. It makes consulate
sent to hold those acids and make | 0:33:08 | 0:33:12 | |
them work for the benefit of the
citizens. If interest rates rise, | 0:33:12 | 0:33:18 | |
after you bought that house and you
are renting it out, it is important | 0:33:18 | 0:33:23 | |
that costs can derive from the
rental income. We know that rates | 0:33:23 | 0:33:29 | |
can rise. There is every possibility
that the interest you will be paying | 0:33:29 | 0:33:33 | |
will not cover the profits and cost?
It is no different to the position | 0:33:33 | 0:33:38 | |
now. If water companies and energy
companies are financed, they have | 0:33:38 | 0:33:44 | |
those structures in place, the rate
of interest that they pay on their | 0:33:44 | 0:33:49 | |
financing is passed through to the
consumer ultimately. I tell you how | 0:33:49 | 0:33:54 | |
it is different now, and your system
it would be passed to the taxpayer | 0:33:54 | 0:33:58 | |
presumably. If any of these
industries started making a loss, | 0:33:58 | 0:34:03 | |
who picks up the tab for that? Have
they made a loss since they were | 0:34:03 | 0:34:08 | |
privatised? They have not, they have
made very great profits. The reason | 0:34:08 | 0:34:14 | |
they are giving up the east Coast
franchise is because they have lost | 0:34:14 | 0:34:20 | |
£200 million. That shows how the
franchising system is completely and | 0:34:20 | 0:34:24 | |
utterly flawed and should be
abandoned. If the government run | 0:34:24 | 0:34:30 | |
East Coast Mainline lost £2 billion,
who would be on the hook, the | 0:34:30 | 0:34:35 | |
taxpayer? When the government last
ran East Coast Mainline they ran it | 0:34:35 | 0:34:40 | |
at a profit, it brought money into
the Treasury. We have a good history | 0:34:40 | 0:34:44 | |
of running the railways correctly
and not having this bailout to | 0:34:44 | 0:34:48 | |
Richard Branson and Brian Souter and
the rest of them or seeing the | 0:34:48 | 0:34:52 | |
dividends and profits overseas to
the state-owned companies of | 0:34:52 | 0:34:59 | |
continental Europe. We want to put
an end to that and make sure we run | 0:34:59 | 0:35:03 | |
our railways for the benefits of the
public. Let's look at one company, | 0:35:03 | 0:35:09 | |
Bristol energy which looks like the
kind of company you are advocating. | 0:35:09 | 0:35:13 | |
It is set up locally and has ethical
behaviour. There are no shareholders | 0:35:13 | 0:35:19 | |
so nobody is taking a profit out of
it. It has lost 2 million over two | 0:35:19 | 0:35:23 | |
years and does not expect to be
profitable until 2021. But | 0:35:23 | 0:35:28 | |
sound like a great deal for the
taxpayer if that is how you're going | 0:35:28 | 0:35:33 | |
to run the National Grid. If | 0:35:33 | 0:35:35 | |
taxpayer if that is how you're going
are recouping the losses and they | 0:35:35 | 0:35:36 | |
are recouping the losses and they
have the trajectory of growth and | 0:35:36 | 0:35:38 | |
are recouping the losses and they
greater incomes, they will look at | 0:35:38 | 0:35:40 | |
that and say to successful. The
Labour government... They got tax | 0:35:40 | 0:35:47 | |
breaks, public capital to set them
breaks, public capital to set them | 0:35:47 | 0:35:50 | |
up in the first instance, they were
heavily subsidised so they | 0:35:50 | 0:35:55 | |
up in the first instance, they were
on and enjoy the benefits of private | 0:35:55 | 0:35:57 | |
enterprise that does not benefit the
consumer or the taxpayer or | 0:35:57 | 0:36:01 | |
enterprise that does not benefit the
citizens, however you wish | 0:36:01 | 0:36:02 | |
enterprise that does not benefit the
describe it. The consumer and the | 0:36:02 | 0:36:06 | |
taxpayer may be the same person but | 0:36:06 | 0:36:08 | |
describe it. The consumer and the
they have a different financial | 0:36:08 | 0:36:10 | |
they have a different financial
relationship with these companies. | 0:36:10 | 0:36:12 | |
What comes first, using any profit
or revenue you have used to acquire | 0:36:12 | 0:36:18 | |
What comes first, using any profit
these assets or cutting bills? You | 0:36:18 | 0:36:20 | |
What comes first, using any profit
do both. If you have got that income | 0:36:20 | 0:36:22 | |
you can use it for those purposes.
you can use it for those purposes. | 0:36:22 | 0:36:25 | |
Do cut energy bills or do you repay
the debt? Those who have benefited | 0:36:25 | 0:36:31 | |
from privatisation of had | 0:36:31 | 0:36:33 | |
the debt? Those who have benefited
benefit of not only using that money | 0:36:33 | 0:36:35 | |
to pay the debt they incurred | 0:36:35 | 0:36:37 | |
benefit of not only using that money
the assets, they are now using it to | 0:36:37 | 0:36:38 | |
make dividend payments out to their
shareholders. It clearly can be done | 0:36:38 | 0:36:43 | |
and we want to be in that position
so it works for the benefit of | 0:36:43 | 0:36:48 | |
people and not for corporate
entities. The shareholders are not | 0:36:48 | 0:36:53 | |
all millionaire individuals. A lot
of this is owned by pension funds to | 0:36:53 | 0:36:57 | |
which many workers pensions are
held, can you guarantee that you | 0:36:57 | 0:37:01 | |
will reinforce the Leave reimburse
them at full market value so that | 0:37:01 | 0:37:10 | |
nobody's pension will lose out? The
market value is the market value at | 0:37:10 | 0:37:14 | |
the time these assets are required.
John McDonnell has made it clear | 0:37:14 | 0:37:19 | |
that they will be acquired at that
rate. But not for cash, in exchange | 0:37:19 | 0:37:26 | |
for government bonds? They are still
in that strong position of having | 0:37:26 | 0:37:30 | |
the value fully reflected. What is
happening is that not everybody is a | 0:37:30 | 0:37:35 | |
shareholder. It means there is
greater equity for all of the | 0:37:35 | 0:37:39 | |
population, not only an narrow
segment of it, surely that has got | 0:37:39 | 0:37:43 | |
to be for the benefit of everybody.
Thank you for talking to us. | 0:37:43 | 0:37:48 | |
It's coming up to 11.40,
you're watching the Sunday Politics. | 0:37:48 | 0:37:50 | |
Still to come: | 0:37:50 | 0:37:52 | |
We'll look at the implications
to the charity sector of the latest | 0:37:52 | 0:37:56 | |
Hello and welcome
to Sunday Politics. | 0:37:56 | 0:38:00 | |
It's the weekend when the curtain
came down on the extraordinary | 0:38:00 | 0:38:03 | |
political career of Gerry Adams
as President of Sinn Fein. | 0:38:03 | 0:38:06 | |
As Mary-Lou McDonald
now takes the stage, | 0:38:06 | 0:38:08 | |
I'll ask the party's new leader
about the challenges that face her. | 0:38:08 | 0:38:11 | |
And here with their thoughts on this
big change in republican leadership, | 0:38:11 | 0:38:15 | |
commentator Chris Donnelly
and Suzanne Breen from | 0:38:15 | 0:38:17 | |
the Belfast Telegraph. | 0:38:17 | 0:38:24 | |
So, it's all change at the top
of Sinn Fein with Mary Lou McDonald | 0:38:24 | 0:38:27 | |
and Michelle O'Neill as President
and Vice-President of Sinn Fein. | 0:38:27 | 0:38:32 | |
And what a time to take charge -
the possibility of a deal | 0:38:32 | 0:38:35 | |
at Stormont, the challenge
of winning over more | 0:38:35 | 0:38:37 | |
voters in the Republic,
and the debate over new abortion | 0:38:37 | 0:38:39 | |
laws will be dominating their
thoughts over the next few months. | 0:38:39 | 0:38:43 | |
Mary-Lou McDonald is live
in Dublin - and I'll be | 0:38:43 | 0:38:46 | |
talking to her in a moment. | 0:38:46 | 0:38:47 | |
But first, our Dublin Correspondent
Shane Harrison reports | 0:38:47 | 0:38:49 | |
from the Ard Fheis in south Dublin
yesterday, with a flavour | 0:38:49 | 0:38:52 | |
of the task that lies ahead. | 0:38:52 | 0:38:57 | |
It was a rugby weekend in Dublin.
That most middle class of games. But | 0:38:57 | 0:39:03 | |
few Irish supporters believed Mary
Lou McDonald, a middle-class South | 0:39:03 | 0:39:08 | |
Dublin woman taking over the
leadership of Sinn Fein would change | 0:39:08 | 0:39:12 | |
their view of the party. There is a
lot of history. I think a lot of us | 0:39:12 | 0:39:17 | |
are not ready to move on yet from
what we remember that Sinn Fein | 0:39:17 | 0:39:21 | |
stands for. They are probably better
off with Mary Lou but it is still | 0:39:21 | 0:39:27 | |
Sinn Fein. No interest at all in
Sinn Fein. I am not a follower of | 0:39:27 | 0:39:33 | |
Sinn Fein so it doesn't matter if it
is a man or woman but I wish well. | 0:39:33 | 0:39:37 | |
Inside the main hall as Michelle
O'Neill and Marylou McDonald were | 0:39:37 | 0:39:44 | |
being elected vice president and
president of Sinn Fein some | 0:39:44 | 0:39:47 | |
delegates believed the advent of
what was jokingly called girl power | 0:39:47 | 0:39:50 | |
would help the party appealed to new
voters. Being a young woman I really | 0:39:50 | 0:39:56 | |
look up to Marylou, I think she is a
great leader and character. I think | 0:39:56 | 0:40:00 | |
she will bring a lot of freshness,
something we haven't seen. The Ard | 0:40:00 | 0:40:05 | |
Fheis was given to understand that
negotiations at Stormont aimed at | 0:40:05 | 0:40:09 | |
restoring devolution were at a
crucial stage but one former | 0:40:09 | 0:40:13 | |
minister stressed the importance of
dealing with an Irish Language Act. | 0:40:13 | 0:40:17 | |
It has to stand alone. We are happy
to have other languages protected | 0:40:17 | 0:40:22 | |
but the Irish Language Act needs to
serve the needs of the Irish people | 0:40:22 | 0:40:25 | |
speaking community. This weekend's
leadership Ard Fheis didn't deal | 0:40:25 | 0:40:33 | |
with the Republic's abortion
referendum to repeal the eighth | 0:40:33 | 0:40:37 | |
Amendment to the Constitution that
gives equal rights to life to mother | 0:40:37 | 0:40:40 | |
and the unborn. Those who self
described as progressive say they | 0:40:40 | 0:40:45 | |
favour unrestricted access to
abortion for the first 12 weeks of | 0:40:45 | 0:40:47 | |
pregnancy. While the party supports
repeal that are different views | 0:40:47 | 0:40:52 | |
about what should happen with regard
to the 12 week suggestion. I don't | 0:40:52 | 0:40:58 | |
think we are ready for that yet.
Current Sinn Fein policy goes far | 0:40:58 | 0:41:02 | |
enough. Sinn Fein has that
discussion to have and I will hold | 0:41:02 | 0:41:07 | |
the council until we have
opportunity to properly engage as a | 0:41:07 | 0:41:12 | |
party as we do in relation to all
policy positions and that is | 0:41:12 | 0:41:15 | |
something we will be addressing very
shortly. It is a highly emotive | 0:41:15 | 0:41:19 | |
issue. I am on the progressive side
of the party but I abide with | 0:41:19 | 0:41:25 | |
whatever decision the party mix.
Sinn Fein's 2018 Ard Fheis is | 0:41:25 | 0:41:30 | |
expected to take place within
months. It is then when the party | 0:41:30 | 0:41:34 | |
will almost certainly come to its
decision on that most controversial | 0:41:34 | 0:41:39 | |
of subjects, unrestricted access to
abortion during the first 12 weeks. | 0:41:39 | 0:41:42 | |
Shane Harrison reporting
from yesterday's | 0:41:42 | 0:41:43 | |
special Ard Fheis in Dublin. | 0:41:43 | 0:41:44 | |
And joining me now live
from our studio there | 0:41:44 | 0:41:46 | |
is the new President
of Sinn Fein, Mary-Lou McDonald. | 0:41:46 | 0:41:48 | |
Hello - and congratulations
on your elevation. | 0:41:48 | 0:41:55 | |
Thank you so much. It is great to be
on with you. Your predecessor Gerry | 0:41:55 | 0:42:03 | |
Adams was in the job of course for
almost 35 years. You described him | 0:42:03 | 0:42:07 | |
yesterday as your political mentor
and inspirational leader and great | 0:42:07 | 0:42:10 | |
friend but you also talked about the
need for innovation, fresh thinking, | 0:42:10 | 0:42:15 | |
bold ideas. Now with the time for
new leadership you said, so where | 0:42:15 | 0:42:18 | |
are you planning to take Sinn Fein?
I of course paid tribute to Gerry | 0:42:18 | 0:42:25 | |
and his many long and very
successful years of leadership of | 0:42:25 | 0:42:28 | |
our party, and I set out yesterday a
sense, a vision and energy to | 0:42:28 | 0:42:37 | |
advance Sinn Fein to the next level.
We have grown extraordinarily over | 0:42:37 | 0:42:41 | |
the last number of years, north and
south, we are a national | 0:42:41 | 0:42:47 | |
organisation. We have national
objectives, not least securing a | 0:42:47 | 0:42:50 | |
referendum on unity, the building of
a new Ireland. Our politics is very | 0:42:50 | 0:42:58 | |
expensive, very ambitious and I am
very clear in the years ahead that | 0:42:58 | 0:43:00 | |
we need to really have a very strong
sense of purpose as we go about the | 0:43:00 | 0:43:07 | |
business of building relationships
with unionism. Building | 0:43:07 | 0:43:10 | |
relationships with new communities,
building international understanding | 0:43:10 | 0:43:14 | |
and support for the changes that are
happening in Ireland, not least with | 0:43:14 | 0:43:20 | |
the advent or threat of Brexit. So
it is big politics and I was | 0:43:20 | 0:43:25 | |
encouraging our base to think big
come to be ambitious and not to be | 0:43:25 | 0:43:30 | |
afraid of innovation just because we
have always done things in a | 0:43:30 | 0:43:35 | |
particular way, doesn't mean that we
have to forever think or do things | 0:43:35 | 0:43:38 | |
in that same way, so we have lots of
new members and I want us to really | 0:43:38 | 0:43:43 | |
harness that energy of newer
members, younger members, a more | 0:43:43 | 0:43:51 | |
diverse membership. So that it feeds
into the broader politics that isn't | 0:43:51 | 0:43:57 | |
just the preserve of Sinn Fein, let
me emphasise, around not just | 0:43:57 | 0:44:02 | |
imagining our talking about a new
Ireland but getting to work and | 0:44:02 | 0:44:05 | |
making that happen. But you need to
connect with those voters that Shane | 0:44:05 | 0:44:12 | |
Harrison was talking to yesterday
and so far it is about to say they | 0:44:12 | 0:44:14 | |
are not biting, they are not
persuaded with what Sinn Fein is | 0:44:14 | 0:44:17 | |
offering them so how do you make
that connection? Well, our mandate | 0:44:17 | 0:44:22 | |
here in the South, as you call it,
has grown substantially over the | 0:44:22 | 0:44:29 | |
last number of years. Sinn Fein now
is regarded as one of the big three | 0:44:29 | 0:44:32 | |
political parties in politics in
this jurisdiction and we are only | 0:44:32 | 0:44:39 | |
starting. I don't pretend for a
second that we don't have a lot of | 0:44:39 | 0:44:42 | |
work to do. I don't pretend for a
second that there aren't sections of | 0:44:42 | 0:44:46 | |
our people and sections of society
that we don't need to reach out to | 0:44:46 | 0:44:51 | |
to have more contact with, to
convince them that the merit of | 0:44:51 | 0:44:56 | |
social equality and social justice,
to convince them of the merit of a | 0:44:56 | 0:45:00 | |
prosperous Ireland but where
prosperity is shared. To convince | 0:45:00 | 0:45:06 | |
them of the opportunity of new
Ireland. Of as you appreciate I only | 0:45:06 | 0:45:11 | |
in the 24 hours so I am guessing
you're going to give me a little bit | 0:45:11 | 0:45:16 | |
more breathing space to actually set
dollar that in train. We are after a | 0:45:16 | 0:45:20 | |
great start but we have a lot of
work do. Do you think it will be | 0:45:20 | 0:45:24 | |
easier for you to connect with those
individuals because you are yourself | 0:45:24 | 0:45:28 | |
the product of a middle-class home,
very different in terms of your | 0:45:28 | 0:45:31 | |
background and perhaps your style
from your immediate predecessor? | 0:45:31 | 0:45:37 | |
Obviously I am different to Gerry in
many ways, generational latecomer | 0:45:37 | 0:45:41 | |
geographically, gender, all of that,
I bring my own approach and my own | 0:45:41 | 0:45:49 | |
style and own sense of myself and my
own personality, but whatever way | 0:45:49 | 0:45:54 | |
you go about this thing in political
life, it is all about people knowing | 0:45:54 | 0:46:02 | |
you, people having a sense of view,
people having trust in you and also | 0:46:02 | 0:46:07 | |
having confidence in your policy
platform and finally in your ability | 0:46:07 | 0:46:12 | |
to deliver on that policy platform.
So I don't underestimate my task for | 0:46:12 | 0:46:17 | |
a second. I am a great believer in
hard work, and effort, and as I was | 0:46:17 | 0:46:27 | |
saying yesterday that the Ard Fheis,
some things that are having with | 0:46:27 | 0:46:30 | |
achieving, it is worth maybe working
for and that is what I am doing I am | 0:46:30 | 0:46:34 | |
not taking anything for granted but
I think we have a very strong | 0:46:34 | 0:46:40 | |
progressive, hopeful, mother and
message for modern Ireland and I | 0:46:40 | 0:46:43 | |
believe that it transcends, we are a
party of working people and social | 0:46:43 | 0:46:49 | |
justice. I believe the middle
classes have an interest in that as | 0:46:49 | 0:46:54 | |
well. We have got a lot to cover
here in a short period of time. I | 0:46:54 | 0:46:59 | |
will try and keep my questions you
would if you can try and keep your | 0:46:59 | 0:47:03 | |
answers short as well. The
leadership of Sinn Fein committee of | 0:47:03 | 0:47:07 | |
the president, Michelle O'Neill is
the vice president, how will you | 0:47:07 | 0:47:10 | |
divide the responsibility of the
Republic of Ireland and also for | 0:47:10 | 0:47:13 | |
what is happening at this critical
stage in Northern Ireland at the | 0:47:13 | 0:47:18 | |
moment? Do you believe that Michelle
O'Neill will be back or will be | 0:47:18 | 0:47:22 | |
serving as Deputy First Minister in
Northern Ireland sooner rather than | 0:47:22 | 0:47:24 | |
later? Is a deal imminent in your
view? I will be back in Belfast | 0:47:24 | 0:47:29 | |
tomorrow morning. I believe a deal
can be done and we have said | 0:47:29 | 0:47:36 | |
repeatedly on the public record and
privately that we won the | 0:47:36 | 0:47:40 | |
institutions to work and we want
genuine grounded power-sharing that | 0:47:40 | 0:47:45 | |
delivers everybody right across the
community and for that to happen it | 0:47:45 | 0:47:49 | |
has to be on the basis of mutual
respect. It has to be genuine and | 0:47:49 | 0:47:54 | |
enthusiastic engagement with
power-sharing and I believe that our | 0:47:54 | 0:48:00 | |
universe -- unionist friends need to
come with the new dispensation in | 0:48:00 | 0:48:04 | |
that spirit and that way, we are
certainly willing to do that. We are | 0:48:04 | 0:48:09 | |
proud rising comprises well because
you can't have a 10-0 win to the DUP | 0:48:09 | 0:48:13 | |
were Sinn Fein, do you accept your
idea of an Irish Language Act might | 0:48:13 | 0:48:17 | |
look a bit different from what you
would like and you make have to go | 0:48:17 | 0:48:20 | |
back on your previously stated
position that you would go back into | 0:48:20 | 0:48:23 | |
an Executive with Arlene Foster as
First Minister this side of the RHI | 0:48:23 | 0:48:29 | |
enquiry, reporting Michelle O'Neill
has been crystal clear about that. | 0:48:29 | 0:48:33 | |
This isn't a football match so it is
not a case of 10-0 or 5-0 or marking | 0:48:33 | 0:48:38 | |
up the scoresheet, this is issues
that referred to people's rights, | 0:48:38 | 0:48:45 | |
the right to marriage equality,
language rights, the issue around a | 0:48:45 | 0:48:49 | |
Bill of Rights, the issue around
funding for legacy and quests which | 0:48:49 | 0:48:53 | |
I don't believe anybody, I don't
care which party you are in, you can | 0:48:53 | 0:48:58 | |
stand over a situation where
families of survivors are left | 0:48:58 | 0:49:03 | |
decades waiting for something, a
standard norm of an inquest. I think | 0:49:03 | 0:49:06 | |
that is outrageous. I figured that
they just weary and discussing the | 0:49:06 | 0:49:10 | |
release of funding for those legacy
inquest. These are contested issues | 0:49:10 | 0:49:17 | |
and my point is that across the
board in all of these issues, in | 0:49:17 | 0:49:20 | |
legacy, Irish Language Act, in who
serves as the DUP First Minister, | 0:49:20 | 0:49:23 | |
there needs to become the rise and
needs to become arise but going from | 0:49:23 | 0:49:26 | |
Sinn Fein and from the DUP. This we
are a party that understand the | 0:49:26 | 0:49:32 | |
necessity for dialogue and to
accommodate others as well, maybe | 0:49:32 | 0:49:38 | |
better than others, there is no
issue there. We have said progress | 0:49:38 | 0:49:43 | |
but I want to make the point back to
you and I think this is where | 0:49:43 | 0:49:45 | |
politics needs to go, we need to
stop seeing things in those kind of | 0:49:45 | 0:49:51 | |
polarised sense, a win for me, a
loose preview, at the end of the day | 0:49:51 | 0:49:57 | |
whatever we are elected from we are
charged with shaping public policies | 0:49:57 | 0:50:01 | |
and legislation and frameworks that
actually serve a happy life, a | 0:50:01 | 0:50:06 | |
productive life and the rights of
people. I don't care if there are | 0:50:06 | 0:50:11 | |
orange or green, I am not willing to
get into Abe political dialogue with | 0:50:11 | 0:50:15 | |
anybody that is as crude as a win
for me and loss for you, and decided | 0:50:15 | 0:50:21 | |
the issue of legacy and dealing with
the past very specifically because I | 0:50:21 | 0:50:24 | |
am very aware of the fact that we
need to start in substantive ways | 0:50:24 | 0:50:29 | |
demonstrating leadership on these
issues. We are not going to agree on | 0:50:29 | 0:50:33 | |
the past. We're not going to get a
single shared narrative, so we have | 0:50:33 | 0:50:38 | |
to have respect for each other.
There are certain things upon we | 0:50:38 | 0:50:40 | |
have to simply agreed to disagree
and we need to respect each other | 0:50:40 | 0:50:47 | |
and allow wage of the space to
articulate our politics to remember | 0:50:47 | 0:50:51 | |
our past, and to move on. The talks
are underway. I think we are now at | 0:50:51 | 0:50:57 | |
decision time. I think the coming
week has to be decisive. I will be | 0:50:57 | 0:51:02 | |
up in Belfast alongside Michelle
O'Neill, a woman in whom I have the | 0:51:02 | 0:51:06 | |
utmost faith and confidence. And we
were together, we are a national | 0:51:06 | 0:51:12 | |
party, so it is not even a case of
divvying things out. I trust and | 0:51:12 | 0:51:16 | |
need the support of Michelle and
vice versa. I am believer, I am the | 0:51:16 | 0:51:21 | |
national leader, but be in no doubt
that Michelle is my wing woman. She | 0:51:21 | 0:51:25 | |
is absolutely a person of standing
and authority in her own right in | 0:51:25 | 0:51:31 | |
our party, nationally and deservedly
so. That is an interesting point. | 0:51:31 | 0:51:36 | |
This is an issue that has been
talked about appear at the moment, | 0:51:36 | 0:51:39 | |
what about the senior republican
figures from the North who have been | 0:51:39 | 0:51:43 | |
influential in determining Sinn Fein
policy in the past, people who are | 0:51:43 | 0:51:47 | |
from the wider republican family who
aren't elected representatives but | 0:51:47 | 0:51:51 | |
who are well known to be influential
in the past? Will they still wield | 0:51:51 | 0:51:55 | |
influence under your leadership or
is this a clear break from the past? | 0:51:55 | 0:52:02 | |
We have people and influential
people within Sinn Fein at every | 0:52:02 | 0:52:05 | |
level. Local levels, regionally, we
have a number of people who are | 0:52:05 | 0:52:11 | |
political thinkers, political
activists, some of them have | 0:52:11 | 0:52:14 | |
considerable experience, others as I
was saying earlier are newer to the | 0:52:14 | 0:52:18 | |
party, and everybody brings their
analysis and politics. But at the | 0:52:18 | 0:52:22 | |
end of the day will you be calling
the shots? Yes. For the avoidance of | 0:52:22 | 0:52:28 | |
doubt, I am the leader of the party
and I will act as leader of the | 0:52:28 | 0:52:34 | |
party, I am a team player, I believe
in a collaborative effort. But where | 0:52:34 | 0:52:38 | |
there are calls to be made I will be
making them. Just a final question | 0:52:38 | 0:52:43 | |
about abortion which is a hugely
contentious as you at the moment as | 0:52:43 | 0:52:45 | |
a move towards the referendum on
appealing the eighth Amendment, you | 0:52:45 | 0:52:49 | |
said you will consult the people and
listen to people, are you going to | 0:52:49 | 0:52:53 | |
give people a free vote on that
within the Dail in future will there | 0:52:53 | 0:52:58 | |
be a party policy which may back
abortion in 12 weeks which some of | 0:52:58 | 0:53:03 | |
your TDs and party membership could
be very uncomfortable about? You are | 0:53:03 | 0:53:07 | |
right to say this is a contentious
issue and I absolutely accept that | 0:53:07 | 0:53:11 | |
it is a matter of private
conscience, but it is also a matter | 0:53:11 | 0:53:17 | |
of public policy and that is where
the party and where we, those of us | 0:53:17 | 0:53:20 | |
that are legislators, come into the
frame, it is a bad shaping law and | 0:53:20 | 0:53:27 | |
policy that protects women's lives
and health and allows doctors and | 0:53:27 | 0:53:30 | |
medics to actually do their job. You
ask me on the issue of a free vote. | 0:53:30 | 0:53:35 | |
That is not envisaged, no, and let
me just remind you that on three | 0:53:35 | 0:53:41 | |
occasions Sinn Fein Ard Fheis Mac
have had motions put them suggesting | 0:53:41 | 0:53:48 | |
a conscience clause or free vote and
on three occasions the party has | 0:53:48 | 0:53:52 | |
refused that, not because there are
different views on the party, there | 0:53:52 | 0:53:56 | |
are very clearly are, but because we
as a political party understand that | 0:53:56 | 0:53:59 | |
you don't duck the hard issues and
that as the master of Public policy | 0:53:59 | 0:54:03 | |
you have to have party policy and
leading the front and we trust | 0:54:03 | 0:54:08 | |
women. Very interesting to trigger
thoughts. Thank you for talking to | 0:54:08 | 0:54:12 | |
us. Appreciate your time. | 0:54:12 | 0:54:16 | |
So, what do my guests
of the day make of that? | 0:54:16 | 0:54:19 | |
Suzanne Breen, Political Editor
of the Belfast Telegraph, | 0:54:19 | 0:54:20 | |
and commentator Chris Donnelly
are with me. | 0:54:20 | 0:54:25 | |
Suzanne, she is no stranger to
television studios and she is only | 0:54:25 | 0:54:29 | |
in the job 24 hours stopper is a
limit to what she can say and do. | 0:54:29 | 0:54:33 | |
But what do you think we can expect
from her in the top job? She is | 0:54:33 | 0:54:37 | |
clearly a very good media performer.
She is never going to mess up and | 0:54:37 | 0:54:43 | |
have a car crash interviews during
leadership debates like Gerry Adams | 0:54:43 | 0:54:47 | |
her predecessor did. She is a woman
who is a great eye for detail and | 0:54:47 | 0:54:52 | |
policy. I think we can CC is a
people person and in a party | 0:54:52 | 0:54:55 | |
election playing those skills are
very important. She is good with the | 0:54:55 | 0:54:58 | |
ordinary man or woman on the street
on the ground will stop in terms of | 0:54:58 | 0:55:02 | |
will there be a huge difference in
her style of leadership and putting | 0:55:02 | 0:55:07 | |
the meat on the bones, I don't know.
I think that remains to be seen. | 0:55:07 | 0:55:11 | |
Certainly no one will ever ask Mary
Lou have you been in the IRA? And it | 0:55:11 | 0:55:15 | |
makes it easier for Fine Gael or
Fianna Fail to go in to government | 0:55:15 | 0:55:21 | |
with her after the next election.
She made clear, I am president of | 0:55:21 | 0:55:26 | |
Sinn Fein and I will call the shots.
What do you think unionists will | 0:55:26 | 0:55:30 | |
make of her and her apparent
enthusiasm are Stormont by Tom and | 0:55:30 | 0:55:34 | |
running again, willingness she said
to hold the principles but also | 0:55:34 | 0:55:36 | |
become almost? One of the themes in
a speech yesterday, and it was quite | 0:55:36 | 0:55:43 | |
striking that the incoming Sinn Fein
leader, she pointed out the fact | 0:55:43 | 0:55:46 | |
that she last year took part in the
British -- reddish Remembrance | 0:55:46 | 0:55:51 | |
Sunday event in London. She wants to
be seen to respect the unionist | 0:55:51 | 0:55:53 | |
tradition but she was demanding the
same from unionists. She has been | 0:55:53 | 0:56:00 | |
coming on to that in her interview,
we won't have a shared narrative | 0:56:00 | 0:56:03 | |
about the past but what we can do is
respectably agree to disagree and | 0:56:03 | 0:56:08 | |
that is what she wants to bring
towards engagement with the unionist | 0:56:08 | 0:56:11 | |
tradition. I think it is quite
interesting, I do see, I think | 0:56:11 | 0:56:15 | |
within Sinn Fein they know someone
has to take the role that Martin | 0:56:15 | 0:56:18 | |
McGuinness played as Deputy First
Minister and in terms of our | 0:56:18 | 0:56:21 | |
preaching to unionist and they think
worse than Michelle O'Neill, Mary | 0:56:21 | 0:56:23 | |
Lou McDonald would see herself in
taking that role. She said, | 0:56:23 | 0:56:32 | |
described Michelle O'Neill as her
wing woman in the north. She is | 0:56:32 | 0:56:35 | |
making very clear because she is
heard talk that Mary Lou McDonald | 0:56:35 | 0:56:41 | |
will be influenced by other forces,
she is setting out that you will be | 0:56:41 | 0:56:44 | |
the party leader and the one that
takes in people to the party. Other | 0:56:44 | 0:56:50 | |
individuals, we will get into
details, but people from the wider | 0:56:50 | 0:56:54 | |
republican family, people who served
in the IRA in the past two were | 0:56:54 | 0:56:56 | |
clearly influential alongside Gerry
Adams and Martin McGuinness, is | 0:56:56 | 0:57:02 | |
their influence waning now under the
leadership of Mary Lou McDonald? Is | 0:57:02 | 0:57:05 | |
that what we can expect? I don't
think so. They think their influence | 0:57:05 | 0:57:10 | |
will only wane when the time is up
and they pass away. While they are | 0:57:10 | 0:57:15 | |
here think they always will have
enormous clout and I really struggle | 0:57:15 | 0:57:18 | |
to believe that Mary Lou McDonald,
she says she will be the boss of | 0:57:18 | 0:57:20 | |
Gerry Adams, will she be the boss of
them? I don't think so. Interesting. | 0:57:20 | 0:57:25 | |
Thank you both for now. | 0:57:25 | 0:57:27 | |
Let's just pause for a moment
for a look back at the political | 0:57:27 | 0:57:30 | |
week gone past in sixty seconds -
with Stephen Walker. | 0:57:30 | 0:57:35 | |
Gerry Kelly's car was clamped. Later
he admitted he made a mistake. It | 0:57:35 | 0:57:43 | |
was a bad decision. I moved ahead of
it and that was it but that don't | 0:57:43 | 0:57:49 | |
happen again. Bolt cutters also
turned up at Westminster as we | 0:57:49 | 0:57:51 | |
marked 100 years of women getting
the vote. Things like chaining | 0:57:51 | 0:57:56 | |
yourself to statues in the building
and they are still captured today. | 0:57:56 | 0:58:01 | |
Ian Paisley issued a familiar battle
cry when it came to Brexit. It's | 0:58:01 | 0:58:06 | |
about time the Government
demonstrated a no surrender attitude | 0:58:06 | 0:58:08 | |
to the European bureaucrats...
Declan Kearney said it was the IRA | 0:58:08 | 0:58:16 | |
and Sinn Fein leaderships that
helped to form the civil rights | 0:58:16 | 0:58:18 | |
movement. The civil rights movement
when you look at it through the lens | 0:58:18 | 0:58:23 | |
of historical objectivity had
multiple parents and gave birth to | 0:58:23 | 0:58:27 | |
many children. But not everyone
agreed. The article that Declan | 0:58:27 | 0:58:33 | |
Kearney wrote is delusional. | 0:58:33 | 0:58:39 | |
Stephen Walker there. | 0:58:41 | 0:58:42 | |
And let's have a few final thoughts
from Suzanne and Chris. | 0:58:42 | 0:58:47 | |
Suzanne, she was very clear about
Stormont, she says she is up for a | 0:58:47 | 0:58:51 | |
deal. She does and I will be very
surprised that there isn't a deal | 0:58:51 | 0:58:54 | |
next week. In the Belfast Telegraph
we broke the story exclusively that | 0:58:54 | 0:58:59 | |
a deal was imminent and getting a
lot of journalists and commentators | 0:58:59 | 0:59:02 | |
have been asleep at the wheel on
this one. They have been looking at | 0:59:02 | 0:59:05 | |
previous talks and thinking this
isn't going to be any different, | 0:59:05 | 0:59:10 | |
nothing really much has changed. If
you look at the signs at what Arlene | 0:59:10 | 0:59:18 | |
Foster as saying, Colin Murphy said
at the weekend, really be mood music | 0:59:18 | 0:59:24 | |
is there. I think there are still
some things to sign off but they | 0:59:24 | 0:59:28 | |
would be very surprised if there
isn't a substantial movement, | 0:59:28 | 0:59:33 | |
commentators and journalists and
media outlets have got this wrong | 0:59:33 | 0:59:35 | |
and are out of touch. Chris, do you
think that is the case? Certainly a | 0:59:35 | 0:59:40 | |
deal may be there, but it isn't
signed sealed and delivered and if | 0:59:40 | 0:59:43 | |
we are to believe everybody that
there was nary a deal in November | 0:59:43 | 0:59:47 | |
and that fell at the last hurdle. I
think the difference this time | 0:59:47 | 0:59:51 | |
because we have seen in the past the
DUP have leaked more favourable | 0:59:51 | 0:59:54 | |
things and if that was jockey for
position, the difference is from | 0:59:54 | 0:59:58 | |
Sinn Fein, particularly Colum
Murphy, very positive soundings of | 0:59:58 | 1:00:02 | |
the weekend, very different language
from him, at a time from Sinn Fein | 1:00:02 | 1:00:07 | |
over the past 13 months so I would
say at this point it does look more | 1:00:07 | 1:00:10 | |
like they will be a deal will stop
briefly, comprising terms of the | 1:00:10 | 1:00:17 | |
Irish Language Act, legacy issues,
Arlene Foster returning as First | 1:00:17 | 1:00:19 | |
Minister, presumably they will be,
right? I think I'll will be stunned | 1:00:19 | 1:00:23 | |
if Arlene Foster does not return as
First Minister. I think Sinn Fein | 1:00:23 | 1:00:26 | |
will comprise on that issue. There
is no way Arlene Foster won't be | 1:00:26 | 1:00:30 | |
First Minister from what I hear.
There will be some deal on the Irish | 1:00:30 | 1:00:33 | |
line would act that allows both
sides to save face so to speak, each | 1:00:33 | 1:00:38 | |
will be able to sell it as some sort
of victory. In terms of equal | 1:00:38 | 1:00:41 | |
marriage I think they can will be
kicked down the road on that and | 1:00:41 | 1:00:45 | |
that the DUP does acknowledge to
Sinn Fein but it doesn't have the | 1:00:45 | 1:00:48 | |
numbers for a petition of concern
any more. Compromise isn't | 1:00:48 | 1:00:53 | |
necessarily a dirty word? Know but I
think people will look very clearly | 1:00:53 | 1:00:58 | |
at the implementation and what that
will entail. Thank you. Back to | 1:00:58 | 1:01:01 | |
Sarah in London. | 1:01:01 | 1:01:07 | |
Thank you very much and thanks
to all of my guests. | 1:01:07 | 1:01:10 | |
Welcome back. A few minutes ago we
were talking about plans for | 1:01:14 | 1:01:20 | |
renationalisation, something which
they think is a good vote winning | 1:01:20 | 1:01:26 | |
policy in these times. Are they
right? Nationalisation had a boom in | 1:01:26 | 1:01:33 | |
popularity. It never went out of | 1:01:33 | 1:01:36 | |
right? Nationalisation had a boom in
favour. Since the bailouts of rail | 1:01:36 | 1:01:38 | |
companies, since the appalling
things which happen | 1:01:38 | 1:01:41 | |
companies, since the appalling
have to get a train every day, never | 1:01:41 | 1:01:44 | |
mind just the south-east, it has
been a nightmare and costs are | 1:01:44 | 1:01:56 | |
been a nightmare and costs are
ratcheting up. Even the water | 1:01:56 | 1:01:58 | |
companies are not opposing it. I | 1:01:58 | 1:02:01 | |
ratcheting up. Even the water
think they are pushing at | 1:02:01 | 1:02:03 | |
ratcheting up. Even the water
door and it is a worthwhile | 1:02:03 | 1:02:05 | |
ratcheting up. Even the water
for them to do. John McDonnell | 1:02:05 | 1:02:09 | |
ratcheting up. Even the water
it can be done at absolutely no cost | 1:02:09 | 1:02:11 | |
you would have an asset on your | 1:02:11 | 1:02:16 | |
it can be done at absolutely no cost
government books, is that realistic? | 1:02:16 | 1:02:19 | |
No, that is the aspect of it. I can
see the political logic. That is | 1:02:19 | 1:02:24 | |
No, that is the aspect of it. I can
aspect I find most confusing. This | 1:02:24 | 1:02:30 | |
argument that Parliament rather than | 1:02:30 | 1:02:32 | |
aspect I find most confusing. This
the market dictates the price | 1:02:32 | 1:02:33 | |
aspect I find most confusing. This
which the acids is bought, the | 1:02:33 | 1:02:35 | |
signal is not just people who are in
those industries, the signal list | 1:02:35 | 1:02:41 | |
signal is not just people who are in
all other investors in just about | 1:02:41 | 1:02:42 | |
everything else. If you start with
everything else. If you start with | 1:02:42 | 1:02:45 | |
certain sectors, what will be
nationalised next? The impact that | 1:02:45 | 1:02:49 | |
certain sectors, what will be
then has on people who are investing | 1:02:49 | 1:02:50 | |
money in the UK is simply a dawning
money in the UK is simply a dawning | 1:02:50 | 1:02:54 | |
realisation that what they | 1:02:54 | 1:02:56 | |
money in the UK is simply a dawning
what they own, what they paid for | 1:02:56 | 1:02:59 | |
might be stolen or might be
discounted. Labour were fairly clear | 1:02:59 | 1:03:03 | |
in their manifesto, they talked | 1:03:03 | 1:03:06 | |
discounted. Labour were fairly clear
about the National Grid, water, rail | 1:03:06 | 1:03:08 | |
discounted. Labour were fairly clear
and the Royal Mail, nothing else. As | 1:03:08 | 1:03:11 | |
someone who has been | 1:03:11 | 1:03:13 | |
and the Royal Mail, nothing else. As
attention to what John McDonnell and | 1:03:13 | 1:03:14 | |
attention to what John McDonnell and
Seamus Milne think, I will take | 1:03:14 | 1:03:17 | |
Seamus Milne think, I will take
their evidence of what they have | 1:03:17 | 1:03:19 | |
Seamus Milne think, I will take
written and said over the last 30 | 1:03:19 | 1:03:21 | |
Seamus Milne think, I will take
years rather than what they | 1:03:21 | 1:03:22 | |
Seamus Milne think, I will take
trying to do now to win an election. | 1:03:22 | 1:03:25 | |
Seamus Milne think, I will take
I would not try and extrapolate what | 1:03:25 | 1:03:30 | |
Labour policy would be over what she
must have said, he has only been | 1:03:30 | 1:03:35 | |
Labour policy would be over what she
their communications guide for a few | 1:03:35 | 1:03:38 | |
years, before that he was a Guardian
columnist. I'm judging people on | 1:03:38 | 1:03:42 | |
years, before that he was a Guardian
their record of what they have said | 1:03:42 | 1:03:44 | |
years, before that he was a Guardian
to Andrew Marr, what they | 1:03:44 | 1:03:46 | |
years, before that he was a Guardian
written and what John McDonnell | 1:03:46 | 1:03:50 | |
years, before that he was a Guardian
argued for. I simply question | 1:03:50 | 1:03:51 | |
whether we should accept their
guarantees when they are trying to | 1:03:51 | 1:03:56 | |
bargain their way into power.
Listen, nobody, it is something | 1:03:56 | 1:04:01 | |
which only happens to this lot of | 1:04:01 | 1:04:04 | |
Listen, nobody, it is something
Labour leaders, that if people | 1:04:04 | 1:04:05 | |
cannot critique the policy they
suggest, then critique what they | 1:04:05 | 1:04:09 | |
perceive to be the nefarious under | 1:04:09 | 1:04:15 | |
suggest, then critique what they
policy. The truth is, when we talk | 1:04:15 | 1:04:17 | |
about privatising industries we used
to talk about that, we never talked | 1:04:17 | 1:04:22 | |
about the outrageous bailouts they
about the outrageous bailouts they | 1:04:22 | 1:04:24 | |
would need, we never talked | 1:04:24 | 1:04:26 | |
about the outrageous bailouts they
what they would do to actual | 1:04:26 | 1:04:27 | |
about the outrageous bailouts they
we just talked about this in terms | 1:04:27 | 1:04:29 | |
of principle, do you want this
of principle, do you want this | 1:04:29 | 1:04:33 | |
privatised with efficiency or
nationalised? There problems with | 1:04:33 | 1:04:38 | |
some things that now | 1:04:38 | 1:04:39 | |
nationalised? There problems with
Thatcher would not say that was the | 1:04:39 | 1:04:41 | |
Thatcher would not say that was the
original intention. However, she and | 1:04:41 | 1:04:44 | |
those around her were completely
those around her were completely | 1:04:44 | 1:04:47 | |
clear and explicit about that | 1:04:47 | 1:04:48 | |
those around her were completely
were prepared to privatise almost | 1:04:48 | 1:04:51 | |
everything. They were unambiguous.
The fairest possible reading of the | 1:04:51 | 1:04:57 | |
way Thatcher went about it is she | 1:04:57 | 1:05:01 | |
The fairest possible reading of the
did not know how bad it would be. | 1:05:01 | 1:05:02 | |
She went into privatisation with the | 1:05:02 | 1:05:04 | |
did not know how bad it would be.
explicit agenda of more British | 1:05:04 | 1:05:05 | |
people owning shares in | 1:05:05 | 1:05:07 | |
explicit agenda of more British
and when she went into it, 40% of | 1:05:07 | 1:05:10 | |
explicit agenda of more British
people own shares, 12 years later | 1:05:10 | 1:05:14 | |
12% did. We will need to leave it
12% did. We will need to leave it | 1:05:14 | 1:05:16 | |
there and move on. | 1:05:16 | 1:05:18 | |
The charity Oxfam has said
it was "dismayed by what happened" | 1:05:18 | 1:05:20 | |
after the accusations of sexual
exploitation by its aid workers | 1:05:20 | 1:05:23 | |
and now the government has said
it's going to get tough. | 1:05:23 | 1:05:25 | |
I'm going to afford them the
opportunity to talk to me tomorrow, | 1:05:25 | 1:05:29 | |
but I'm broke clear, it does not
matter if you have got a | 1:05:29 | 1:05:33 | |
but I'm broke clear, it does not
whistle-blower hotline, it does not | 1:05:33 | 1:05:34 | |
whistle-blower hotline, it does not
matter if you have got good | 1:05:34 | 1:05:38 | |
whistle-blower hotline, it does not
safeguarding practices in place, if | 1:05:38 | 1:05:38 | |
safeguarding practices in place, if
the moral leadership at the top of | 1:05:38 | 1:05:40 | |
the moral leadership at the top of
the organisation is | 1:05:40 | 1:05:43 | |
the moral leadership at the top of
we cannot have you as a partner. | 1:05:43 | 1:05:46 | |
That was Penny Mordaunt talking | 1:05:46 | 1:05:49 | |
we cannot have you as a partner.
whom there have been | 1:05:49 | 1:05:52 | |
we cannot have you as a partner.
this week. This could have | 1:05:52 | 1:05:53 | |
implications for the aid sector
generally? Yes, and that is | 1:05:53 | 1:05:58 | |
implications for the aid sector
Penny Mordaunt said that | 1:05:58 | 1:06:00 | |
implications for the aid sector
would be put off by the likes of | 1:06:00 | 1:06:02 | |
implications for the aid sector
giving to Oxfam because they | 1:06:02 | 1:06:09 | |
giving to Oxfam because they have no
idea where their money is being used | 1:06:12 | 1:06:13 | |
idea where their money is being used
your good hard earned cash could be | 1:06:13 | 1:06:17 | |
subsidising Oxfam executives sexual | 1:06:17 | 1:06:19 | |
your good hard earned cash could be
peccadilloes, at -- abusing the | 1:06:19 | 1:06:19 | |
people they are supposed to be
helping is not good. Penny Mordaunt | 1:06:19 | 1:06:31 | |
said we should all have done more.
Where this seems to be going as who | 1:06:31 | 1:06:35 | |
knew what? Furthermore, who was
happy to cover up what for the | 1:06:35 | 1:06:41 | |
greater good? If you shine a
greater good? If you shine a | 1:06:41 | 1:06:44 | |
spotlight on abuse will it kill off
the Holborn I'm concept of | 1:06:44 | 1:06:47 | |
the Holborn I'm concept of
international aid. Oxfam does a lot | 1:06:47 | 1:06:49 | |
of good around the world. | 1:06:49 | 1:06:52 | |
international aid. Oxfam does a lot
amounts of good. Why would you want | 1:06:52 | 1:06:54 | |
international aid. Oxfam does a lot
to kill off a productive good | 1:06:54 | 1:06:56 | |
charity because of some horrendous | 1:06:56 | 1:06:58 | |
to kill off a productive good
abuse going on? The political damage | 1:06:58 | 1:07:01 | |
to kill off a productive good
for the government and we need to be | 1:07:01 | 1:07:03 | |
very careful, there are parallels
very careful, there are parallels | 1:07:03 | 1:07:09 | |
with for example the northern Asian
sexual grooming scandal. How | 1:07:09 | 1:07:11 | |
with for example the northern Asian
was a blind eye turned to these | 1:07:11 | 1:07:15 | |
with for example the northern Asian
politically sensitive subject | 1:07:15 | 1:07:18 | |
with for example the northern Asian
greater good, for | 1:07:18 | 1:07:20 | |
with for example the northern Asian
harmony, was not damaged? That will | 1:07:20 | 1:07:21 | |
be huge thing to unpick. Tom was
talking about the damage | 1:07:21 | 1:07:29 | |
be huge thing to unpick. Tom was
who donate to charities but defeat, | 1:07:29 | 1:07:32 | |
the government, committed huge
amount of | 1:07:32 | 1:07:39 | |
amount of money -- | 1:07:39 | 1:07:39 | |
amount of money -- DFID. Not | 1:07:39 | 1:07:41 | |
everyone is happy about this. | 1:07:41 | 1:07:41 | |
everyone is happy about this. | 1:07:41 | 1:07:42 | |
everyone is happy about this. | 1:07:42 | 1:07:43 | |
this be used as a debate about | 1:07:43 | 1:07:45 | |
international aid? I think it | 1:07:45 | 1:07:46 | |
international aid? I think it | 1:07:46 | 1:07:47 | |
being used as a way to reopen
debate. It should be remembered that | 1:07:47 | 1:07:54 | |
sexual predators use | 1:07:54 | 1:07:57 | |
They used boarding schools, the
church and aid programmes. They use | 1:07:57 | 1:08:00 | |
places with high vulnerability to
the sexual predators. Notably says | 1:08:00 | 1:08:05 | |
places with high vulnerability to
let's close down the church. It is | 1:08:05 | 1:08:07 | |
mistaken to say this is a taint on
the entire aid industry when | 1:08:07 | 1:08:14 | |
mistaken to say this is a taint on
industry by its nature would attract | 1:08:14 | 1:08:15 | |
some predatory behaviour. It is much | 1:08:15 | 1:08:18 | |
industry by its nature would attract
more important to have the | 1:08:18 | 1:08:19 | |
conversation about how | 1:08:19 | 1:08:22 | |
more important to have the
institutionally you prevent and deal | 1:08:22 | 1:08:22 | |
with the predatory behaviour | 1:08:22 | 1:08:24 | |
institutionally you prevent and deal
than turn a spotlight on the aid | 1:08:24 | 1:08:26 | |
industry than | 1:08:26 | 1:08:28 | |
than turn a spotlight on the aid
any aid which is the wrong question | 1:08:28 | 1:08:30 | |
and has a completely obvious answer,
yes we should. But if that | 1:08:30 | 1:08:35 | |
and has a completely obvious answer,
if we extend that level | 1:08:35 | 1:08:37 | |
and has a completely obvious answer,
understanding to Oxfam | 1:08:37 | 1:08:43 | |
and has a completely obvious answer,
does good work, why is that not | 1:08:43 | 1:08:44 | |
extended | 1:08:44 | 1:08:46 | |
does good work, why is that not
Presidents club a few weeks ago | 1:08:46 | 1:08:47 | |
which is | 1:08:47 | 1:08:51 | |
Presidents club a few weeks ago
back? Iain, the Presidents club, | 1:08:51 | 1:08:53 | |
there are people | 1:08:53 | 1:08:55 | |
back? Iain, the Presidents club,
not using sex workers unlike the | 1:08:55 | 1:08:57 | |
back? Iain, the Presidents club,
Presidents club. There were people | 1:08:57 | 1:08:59 | |
back? Iain, the Presidents club,
at that dinner who were not engaged | 1:08:59 | 1:09:02 | |
back? Iain, the Presidents club,
in the activity that the FDA | 1:09:02 | 1:09:05 | |
back? Iain, the Presidents club,
a few people. But they | 1:09:05 | 1:09:06 | |
back? Iain, the Presidents club,
sitting there in an all male dinner | 1:09:06 | 1:09:12 | |
-- the FT accused people. I am not
defending people. We cannot finish | 1:09:12 | 1:09:18 | |
the programme without returning to
the programme without returning to | 1:09:18 | 1:09:20 | |
the topic we are always talking
about and we have always been | 1:09:20 | 1:09:25 | |
talking about, Brexit. | 1:09:25 | 1:09:32 | |
talking about, Brexit. We will hear
from some other Cabinet ministers. | 1:09:33 | 1:09:36 | |
Explain the choreography of the
talks. The government have come | 1:09:36 | 1:09:41 | |
under pressure for not saying enough | 1:09:41 | 1:09:46 | |
talks. The government have come
about the decisions. Boris Johnson | 1:09:46 | 1:09:48 | |
made it clear he would make his own | 1:09:48 | 1:09:50 | |
about the decisions. Boris Johnson
speech on the case for a liberal | 1:09:50 | 1:09:52 | |
Brexit, whatever that ends up
Brexit, whatever that ends up | 1:09:52 | 1:09:55 | |
meaning. Now we learn today that it
will not just be Boris, it will be a | 1:09:55 | 1:10:01 | |
meaning. Now we learn today that it
whole is of other Cabinet ministers | 1:10:01 | 1:10:03 | |
making a useful contribution | 1:10:03 | 1:10:06 | |
whole is of other Cabinet ministers
terms of speeches, David Davis, | 1:10:06 | 1:10:07 | |
David Liddington, Liam Fox and
Theresa May finally at the end of | 1:10:07 | 1:10:11 | |
Theresa May finally at the end of
this long list. Not Philip Hammond | 1:10:11 | 1:10:13 | |
or any of the arch Remainers? They
don't do Brexit central jobs. You | 1:10:13 | 1:10:20 | |
expect the Brexit ministers
expect the Brexit ministers | 1:10:20 | 1:10:22 | |
themselves to do that. I do not
agree with that at all. What is | 1:10:22 | 1:10:27 | |
interesting is, were they | 1:10:27 | 1:10:29 | |
agree with that at all. What is
going to do this or has the entirety | 1:10:29 | 1:10:32 | |
of government, now the dog is being
whacked by the tail, just to make | 1:10:32 | 1:10:38 | |
of government, now the dog is being
Boris Johnson... They have to give | 1:10:38 | 1:10:43 | |
him great cover by surrounding him
him great cover by surrounding him | 1:10:43 | 1:10:46 | |
by others also making speeches. What
a shocking waste of parliamentary | 1:10:46 | 1:10:51 | |
by others also making speeches. What
time this is? At least we are | 1:10:51 | 1:10:56 | |
by others also making speeches. What
hearing from someone. The pattern | 1:10:56 | 1:10:57 | |
with speech-making is somebody comes
out and says something and then | 1:10:57 | 1:11:01 | |
Number Ten immediately slapped | 1:11:01 | 1:11:04 | |
out and says something and then
down. You cannot listen to the thing | 1:11:04 | 1:11:04 | |
you think | 1:11:04 | 1:11:07 | |
down. You cannot listen to the thing
because you have no idea whether it | 1:11:07 | 1:11:08 | |
will be contradicted the day | 1:11:08 | 1:11:12 | |
because you have no idea whether it
Like Philip Hammond in Davos where | 1:11:12 | 1:11:13 | |
he said we would only diverged | 1:11:13 | 1:11:15 | |
Like Philip Hammond in Davos where
moderately from the EU and then | 1:11:15 | 1:11:17 | |
Number Ten contradicted him. And the
Number Ten contradicted him. And the | 1:11:17 | 1:11:19 | |
idea that Philip Hammond is not a
key Brexit Minister, the impact of | 1:11:19 | 1:11:25 | |
this is | 1:11:25 | 1:11:26 | |
key Brexit Minister, the impact of
he is the Chancellor of the | 1:11:26 | 1:11:27 | |
Exchequer. Of course he is a Brexit
Minister. They are quite worried | 1:11:27 | 1:11:32 | |
about the Remainers and they are
really worried about Jacob Rees-Mogg | 1:11:32 | 1:11:36 | |
about the Remainers and they are
and the hard Brexit faction who | 1:11:36 | 1:11:37 | |
and the hard Brexit faction who
could really bring down the Prime | 1:11:37 | 1:11:39 | |
Minister tomorrow if they wanted to.
And at some point, when the Prime | 1:11:39 | 1:11:44 | |
And at some point, when the Prime
Minister fleshes out in a | 1:11:44 | 1:11:47 | |
And at some point, when the Prime
more detail her vision, she cannot | 1:11:47 | 1:11:48 | |
keep Anna Soubry and Jacob Rees-Mogg | 1:11:48 | 1:11:54 | |
more detail her vision, she cannot
happy. Both of them have been vocal | 1:11:54 | 1:11:55 | |
happy. Both of them have been vocal
this week and then the serious | 1:11:55 | 1:11:56 | |
happy. Both of them have been vocal
problem in the Tory party? Someone | 1:11:56 | 1:11:59 | |
will have to compromise at some | 1:11:59 | 1:12:02 | |
problem in the Tory party? Someone
point. The hardest Brexiteers have | 1:12:02 | 1:12:03 | |
to get real and they have to realise | 1:12:03 | 1:12:05 | |
point. The hardest Brexiteers have
they have most of what they wanted. | 1:12:05 | 1:12:07 | |
If you said almost two years ago
that the UK would | 1:12:07 | 1:12:12 | |
If you said almost two years ago
leaving all the key institutions of | 1:12:12 | 1:12:13 | |
the EU, definitely be leaving the
single market, definitely be | 1:12:13 | 1:12:17 | |
the EU, definitely be leaving the
the customs union with a grey area | 1:12:17 | 1:12:19 | |
the EU, definitely be leaving the
at around the customs agreement, | 1:12:19 | 1:12:20 | |
at around the customs agreement,
that is something that I think a lot | 1:12:20 | 1:12:24 | |
of pro-Brexit people have accepted
and pocketed as a good result. But | 1:12:24 | 1:12:30 | |
the Jacob Rees-Mogg faction of the
party sound very unhappy about the | 1:12:30 | 1:12:34 | |
direction of travel and | 1:12:34 | 1:12:37 | |
party sound very unhappy about the
complaining about all sorts of | 1:12:37 | 1:12:38 | |
things? But what is difficult to
work out is how much of that is | 1:12:38 | 1:12:42 | |
people positioning to shift the | 1:12:42 | 1:12:46 | |
work out is how much of that is
argument within Cabinet, outliers | 1:12:46 | 1:12:48 | |
argument within Cabinet, outliers
for an argument, so there is not too | 1:12:48 | 1:12:51 | |
much of a compromise. It is really
all a function of there not | 1:12:51 | 1:12:56 | |
much of a compromise. It is really
leadership and they're not being | 1:12:56 | 1:12:58 | |
someone in charge of the process.
This is going to have to be, we have | 1:12:58 | 1:13:06 | |
to confront this as a | 1:13:06 | 1:13:08 | |
This is going to have to be, we have
some point and make a | 1:13:08 | 1:13:10 | |
This is going to have to be, we have
get on with it one way or another. | 1:13:10 | 1:13:12 | |
Well when they do, I | 1:13:12 | 1:13:15 | |
get on with it one way or another.
will be here to talk about it. | 1:13:15 | 1:13:18 | |
That's all for today. | 1:13:18 | 1:13:19 | |
Parliament's now on recess so I'm
afraid there's no | 1:13:19 | 1:13:21 | |
Daily or Sunday Politics next week,
however, do join me again a week | 1:13:21 | 1:13:24 | |
on Sunday at 11 here on BBC One. | 1:13:24 | 1:13:26 | |
Until then, bye-bye. | 1:13:26 | 1:13:30 |