11/06/2017 Sunday Politics Northern Ireland


11/06/2017

With guests Dominic Raab, Jon Ashworth, Anna Soubry and Graham Brady. Journalists Steve Richards, Julia Hartley-Brewer and Tom Newton Dunn are on the political panel.


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But stay with us for more drama as we can now go straight

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to the Sunday Politics with Andrew Neil who's

:00:00.:00:00.

We are indeed in the sunshine. Welcome from the heart of

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Westminster. Theresa May reappointing key figures

:00:13.:00:26.

to the Cabinet, sacking had to closest aides, Nick Timothy and

:00:27.:00:30.

Fiona Hill. After Conservative MPs demanded their removal in the

:00:31.:00:34.

Conservative failure to win an overall majority in the House of

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Commons. Over the next hour and a bit we'll continue to take stock on

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the remarkable events of the last 72 hours and try to work out where we

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go from here. First though, here's Adam Fleming

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with a reminder of the high octane I was going to say this

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chair is quite warm. Michael Fallon's bum

:00:51.:00:56.

was on this chair. Bums on seats, its election

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night at the BBC, hosted This is David Dimbleby's

:01:05.:01:06.

actual seat! Look, he's got four pencils,

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stopwatch and a calculator. And what we are saying

:01:11.:01:16.

is the Conservatives Note, they don't have an overall

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majority at this stage. 314 for the Conservatives,

:01:24.:01:31.

that's down 17. Luckily there were plenty

:01:32.:01:33.

of politicians who never are. What does this exit

:01:34.:01:43.

poll actually mean? Well, if it's accurate it means

:01:44.:01:49.

Theresa May has just presided over the greatest catastrophe that I can

:01:50.:01:52.

think of in the Conservative We haven't seen a seat change hands

:01:53.:01:55.

and we are hearing about possible Conservative gains in the Midlands

:01:56.:02:02.

and losses in London, People will write Ph.D.s about the

:02:03.:02:04.

2017 election Labour candidates were winning

:02:05.:02:10.

in unexpected places. Tories were losing in unexpected

:02:11.:02:16.

places, including eight members of the Government,

:02:17.:02:20.

like Treasury minister The Home Secretary, Amber Rudd,

:02:21.:02:22.

held on in Hastings...just. OK, the former Deputy Prime Minister

:02:23.:02:30.

and former leader of the Liberal Democrats,

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Nick Clegg, has been beaten I've always sought to stand

:02:33.:02:34.

by the liberal values I believe in, but I, of course, have encountered

:02:35.:02:40.

this evening something many people have encountered before tonight,

:02:41.:02:43.

and I suspect many people will encounter after tonight,

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which is - in politics you live by the sword, and you

:02:49.:02:51.

die by the sword. Lib Dem leader Tim Farron

:02:52.:02:54.

was narrowly re-elected in Cumbria, unlike the SNP's Westminster

:02:55.:02:59.

leader Angus Robertson, who lost his seat, former First

:03:00.:03:04.

Minister Alex Salmond defeated too. The Scottish National Party have

:03:05.:03:07.

lost many fine parliamentarians this evening, and that is a grievous blow

:03:08.:03:11.

to the SNP. But overall the results in Scotland

:03:12.:03:15.

show the SNP will have won a majority of the seats in this

:03:16.:03:20.

country and a majority of the vote. Paul Nuttall failed to get

:03:21.:03:23.

elected in Skegness So, the green room looking a bit

:03:24.:03:29.

ruined, a bit like Ukip I think we are doing

:03:30.:03:37.

better than the SNP. We deliberately didn't stand in some

:03:38.:03:41.

seats to try to give Brexit I think it's quite interesting

:03:42.:03:48.

the main leading Brexit candidates in this election

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are getting their seat back. Right, it's dawn in the real world

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and I found a pub that has been open What state are they going

:03:57.:04:17.

to be in, in there? And was it young people

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who had seen Corbyn, voted, and got the T-shirt who helped

:04:25.:04:26.

the Labour leader to Right, five past five

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in the morning, we are outside Jeremy Corbyn's house in Islington

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in north London. Surprisingly small press pack

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for the man who's destroyed Jeremy!

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Jeremy! If there is a message from

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tonight's result, it's this - the Prime Minister called

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the election because Well, the mandate she's got is lost

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Conservative seats, lost votes, I would have thought that's enough

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to go actually and make way for a government that will be truly

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representative of all Theresa May did the opposite,

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popping to the palace, What the country needs more

:05:09.:05:15.

than ever is certainty, and having secured the largest

:05:16.:05:23.

number of votes and the greatest number of seats in the general

:05:24.:05:27.

election, it is clear that only the Conservatives and Unionist Party

:05:28.:05:31.

have the legitimacy and ability to provide that certainty

:05:32.:05:36.

by commanding a majority As we do, we will continue to work

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with our friends and allies, in the Democratic Unionist Party

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in particular. 15 hours after election night

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started, it's all over. And joined by Tom Newton Dunn, Julia

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Hartley-Brewer and Steve Richards. Julia, why did it go so wrong for

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the Conservatives? You can't run a presidential campaign if you have a

:06:30.:06:32.

candidate with less than the charisma of this desk. If you're not

:06:33.:06:36.

going to put her out to debate, if she's not coming to the people and

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selling herself, which she studiously didn't do, you can't run

:06:41.:06:44.

that campaign. There was the possibility another leader could

:06:45.:06:48.

have walked that with 800 majority against Jeremy Corbyn. Another

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campaign, we will never know, could have delivered a majority of 30 or

:06:52.:06:59.

40, without the deal with the DUP. I'm not saying it was fundamentally

:07:00.:07:06.

wrong to call the election at this time, but it was the wrong candidate

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and the wrong campaign. The third election in a row that Labour has

:07:13.:07:17.

failed to win. It was still a substantial and historic achievement

:07:18.:07:20.

for Jeremy Corbyn. If you consider the context in which this election

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was called, Theresa May, on her honeymoon to die for, politically,

:07:27.:07:30.

with Labour voters split over Brexit, suddenly calling an election

:07:31.:07:36.

when most Labour MPs were not willing to cooperate with whatever

:07:37.:07:39.

campaign was being held by Labour, for them to do as well as they have

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done is an extraordinary achievement. They got no more seats

:07:43.:07:46.

than Gordon Brown in 2010, roughly the same. But the context couldn't

:07:47.:07:51.

have been more daunting, and to wipe out a majority of this figure, who

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six weeks ago was walking on water and appeared to have Brexit as part

:07:57.:08:02.

of her ammunition against the split Labour vote, remains astonishing.

:08:03.:08:05.

One of the errors she made and so many others she made and probably

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all of us, was to underestimate the potency of Corbyn and the relatively

:08:16.:08:19.

modest social Democrat manifesto. Doesn't it take stupidity bordering

:08:20.:08:24.

on genius to turn a 20 point lead at the start of the campaign into a

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hung parliament? It does and it did. That's what happened. I think the

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lead was soft, largely because Theresa May was unknown. We know her

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because we have been having lunch and interviews with her for years on

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end. The public didn't know her. They got to know her and they

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discovered she was the Maybot, which is the term that will stick after

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this campaign. I differ from my two colleagues here, it wasn't the

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amazing right of Corbyn, it was a complete failure to remember that

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people wanted a revolution when they voted for Brexit, and she came

:09:02.:09:04.

across as the party and candidate of continuity. As things stand, we are

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where we are. Where are we?! Where do we go from here? I was with

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College Green with you in the early hours of Friday morning and I didn't

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see anybody that said, see you back here in October. A second election?

:09:21.:09:27.

God forbid, nobody wants a second election, but I can't see the Tories

:09:28.:09:32.

being able to stay in power with the DUP and I'm personally very unhappy

:09:33.:09:36.

with a lot of DUP policies, their stance on gay rights, capital

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punishment, abortion rights, and there will be an awful lot of

:09:41.:09:43.

people, floating voters, who will recoil in horror at that, even on

:09:44.:09:49.

unofficial lines. I get the sense Jeremy Corbyn will be up for a

:09:50.:09:53.

second election, as quick as it comes. I'm sure he is, and if there

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was one company might well win it, which is why there won't be. All

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logic points to another election but I don't think there will be one,

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because I don't think any Conservative Prime Minister will

:10:05.:10:10.

feel strong and confident enough after the trauma of this. They would

:10:11.:10:13.

have to be 50 points ahead in the polls to take the risk. I think

:10:14.:10:19.

rather like between 74 and 79 we will have a frail and fragile House

:10:20.:10:22.

of Commons with a minority government for quite a long time,

:10:23.:10:25.

simply because whoever is Prime Minister will not have the

:10:26.:10:29.

confidence to call an election. So the Tories fear of a quick second

:10:30.:10:33.

election could well result in them going more leniently on Mrs May than

:10:34.:10:37.

they really want to. We have seen already, Miss Mrs May is still Prime

:10:38.:10:45.

Minister. That wouldn't have happened by now if they thought they

:10:46.:10:50.

could win a second snap election. I think they will stabilise. They are

:10:51.:10:55.

also desperate to get Brexit negotiations underway. That's

:10:56.:10:57.

another reason she is still there. She is the one who needs to pull the

:10:58.:11:01.

trigger. Most of the Tory party are aching to have the trigger pulled.

:11:02.:11:06.

When that is bold, when I have stabilised, and when Jeremy Corbyn

:11:07.:11:09.

is back the House of Commons, where remember he's not very good, I think

:11:10.:11:14.

they might your right. Lots more to talk about. Thank you for being with

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me in the open air, the Westminster penthouse, open to the world. I just

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need to find the cocktail bar. Although it is early.

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So, let's take a look at the election results

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Here's how the parties fared in the election on Thursday.

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And here's how they got on in the previous general

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As you can see, the Labour vote is up dramatically, by ten points.

:11:35.:11:38.

But the Conservative vote also rose quite significantly, by five points.

:11:39.:11:40.

The SNP and the Liberal Democrats both saw declines in their support.

:11:41.:11:43.

And Ukip's vote has almost completely collapsed,

:11:44.:11:45.

from 13% in 2015 to just 2% this time around.

:11:46.:11:48.

So the resurgence of two-party politics is one of the key

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The combined vote share of the two main parties is now 82%,

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the highest it's been since the election in 1970.

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And it's more if you exclude Northern Ireland.

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That's partly explained by the collapse of Ukip.

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According to one estimate, the Conservatives may have got 57%

:12:19.:12:22.

It's also thought that last year's EU referendum has helped to polarise

:12:23.:12:28.

support along the traditional Labour and Conservative lines.

:12:29.:12:32.

In polls carried out before the election,

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it was estimated that 50% of remain voters supported Labour and nearly

:12:36.:12:39.

two-thirds of leave voters supported the Conservatives.

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There's also speculation that a rise in the number of young voters may be

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behind the boost in Labour's support - but we don't yet have

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But it's notable that Labour did well in certain constituencies

:12:51.:13:00.

For example, it's thought that the large number of students

:13:01.:13:04.

in Canterbury helped Labour win the seat for the first time

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ever, with a 9% swing from the Conservatives.

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The two main parties have also seen changes in their number of seats.

:13:13.:13:17.

Labour lost six seats but gained 36, giving them a net gain of 30 seats.

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Most of those Labour gains were in England,

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where the party took 27 seats, mainly from the Conservatives.

:13:25.:13:28.

They also gained three seats in Wales and six

:13:29.:13:30.

As for the Conservatives, they lost a total of 33

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seats but also gained 20, giving them a net loss of 13 seats.

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Most of those 20 Conservative gains came in Scotland,

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where the party took 12 seats from the SNP.

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Meaning the Scottish Tories are allowing Mrs May to try to form a

:13:55.:13:58.

government this week! Who would have thought!

:13:59.:14:00.

In England, the Conservatives won

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Joining me now from Glasgow is the brains behind Thursday

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night's astoundingly accurate exit poll, the polling expert

:14:06.:14:07.

And John, the Tories saw a 5-point rise in the share of the votes to

:14:08.:14:26.

42%, very high by recent historical standards, but still lost over a

:14:27.:14:32.

dozen seats, why? Under our first past the post electoral system, the

:14:33.:14:37.

share of the vote you get is almost irrelevant. What is crucial is how

:14:38.:14:42.

you do relative to your opponents. In particular so far as Conservative

:14:43.:14:47.

and Labour are concerned, what determines the fate is the gap

:14:48.:14:55.

between them. In the 2015 election, the Conservatives had a 7-point

:14:56.:14:59.

lead, that only got them a majority of 12, and somebody should have said

:15:00.:15:03.

to the Prime Minister before she pulled the trigger, you do realise

:15:04.:15:07.

you have to be a long way ahead of the Labour Party in order to

:15:08.:15:11.

increase your majority. The opinion polls say you are at that point now

:15:12.:15:16.

but if they fall you are in trouble. In the end of the Conservative lead

:15:17.:15:23.

is 2.5 points, which is not enough to secure a majority given that

:15:24.:15:28.

Northern Ireland is out of the frame, Scotland still has a majority

:15:29.:15:33.

of third party MPs, and there are still Liberal Democrats and greens.

:15:34.:15:40.

This now looks like a two party race once again. We have still got much

:15:41.:15:48.

more in the House of Commons than in 1970 which makes a hung parliament

:15:49.:15:54.

much more likely. Meanwhile there weren't that many marginal seats. It

:15:55.:15:58.

is the relative standing of the parties that's crucial. And how do

:15:59.:16:05.

we explain the 10% rise in Labour's share of the vote? There's a lot of

:16:06.:16:11.

anecdotal evidence of a youth Surge, and I'd like to know if we can nail

:16:12.:16:16.

that down, but also the work of the swings too. Some green voters moved

:16:17.:16:23.

into Labour, some Liberal Democrats, even perhaps some Ukip voters moved

:16:24.:16:29.

into Labour, what do we know? I think we can pick up three crucial

:16:30.:16:33.

patterns. The first is a lot of people who at the beginning of the

:16:34.:16:37.

campaign said are usually vote Labour but cannot imagine doing so

:16:38.:16:42.

under Jeremy Corbyn, he so hopeless. Because of his relatively strong

:16:43.:16:46.

performance they came back into the fold so by the time we got to

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polling day there was many 2015 voters who said they would vote

:16:54.:16:58.

Labour again. That was the crucial point, getting the faithful back on

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board. It is certainly clear there was a substantial swing to young

:17:04.:17:09.

voters during the campaign. Labour started off well in that group, the

:17:10.:17:13.

opinion polls had it around 65% by the time the election came. We don't

:17:14.:17:19.

know exactly the turnout amongst young people, but certainly the

:17:20.:17:23.

pattern of the results suggests the turnout was going up more in places

:17:24.:17:28.

where there were young people so probably somewhat more of them did

:17:29.:17:32.

turn out to vote. The third crucial patent is that this was an election

:17:33.:17:37.

which to some degree voters did polarise around the issue of the

:17:38.:17:43.

shape of Brexit, weather you are a Remain or Leave voter. Labour's

:17:44.:17:55.

progress during the campaign was disproportionately amongst Remain

:17:56.:17:58.

voters so although the parties were not thought to be that far apart on

:17:59.:18:04.

the shape of Brexit, they seem to be sufficiently far apart that Labour

:18:05.:18:07.

was more attractive for those less keen on the kind of Brexit Theresa

:18:08.:18:15.

May had in mind. John Curtice, thank you as always. We are now going to

:18:16.:18:25.

Salford. Graham Brady, you think Mrs May should soldier on, why? There's

:18:26.:18:32.

no other party in a position to form a government. Clearly these aren't

:18:33.:18:40.

the circumstances that either the Prime Minister nor I nor my

:18:41.:18:43.

colleagues would want to be dealing with at the moment but this is what

:18:44.:18:47.

we are presented with and it's our duty to make the best of it and try

:18:48.:18:54.

to offer government as resilient as it can be an quite difficult times.

:18:55.:18:58.

But is she ever going to be more than a caretaker leader now? I think

:18:59.:19:03.

one of the odd things about the experience of the last 12 months is

:19:04.:19:07.

Theresa May performed well as Prime Minister and the public rather liked

:19:08.:19:11.

her as Prime Minister. I think few people would say the campaign

:19:12.:19:15.

succeeded in projecting her qualities as strongly as it could

:19:16.:19:21.

and should have done. As we return to government, albeit in difficult

:19:22.:19:25.

circumstances and dependent on support from other parties, I think

:19:26.:19:30.

we will see people once again seeing the steady, calm, thoughtful Theresa

:19:31.:19:35.

May as Prime Minister. Do you fear a leadership election might lead to a

:19:36.:19:40.

second general election, and that prospect terrifies you, doesn't it?

:19:41.:19:46.

I'm not sitting here terrified, but I think there is zero appetite

:19:47.:19:50.

amongst the public for another general election at the moment, and

:19:51.:19:55.

I don't detect any great appetite amongst my colleagues for presenting

:19:56.:20:00.

the public with a massive additional dose of uncertainty by getting

:20:01.:20:04.

involved in a rather self-indulgent Conservative Party internal election

:20:05.:20:09.

campaign. That's because they are frightened they might lose, that's

:20:10.:20:16.

why they don't want another one. I think most of us are motivated by a

:20:17.:20:20.

belief in the national interest and we are responsible people who want

:20:21.:20:24.

to try to offer that responsible, steady government, especially at

:20:25.:20:28.

this point as we know it's just a matter of days until those important

:20:29.:20:33.

negotiations on leaving the European Union begins. It's a time when we

:20:34.:20:36.

need experience and responsible people in Government, and I think

:20:37.:20:43.

it's our duty to try to offer that. Many Tories have said to me that Mrs

:20:44.:20:46.

May must never be allowed to leave your party into another general

:20:47.:20:51.

election, do you agree with that? No, these are judgments that will be

:20:52.:20:54.

made in the fullness of time by the Prime Minister and by colleagues, as

:20:55.:20:59.

is always the case with any Prime Minister and leader of the party,

:21:00.:21:03.

but at the moment we are resolutely focused on trying to make sure the

:21:04.:21:07.

country can have the responsible study government that it really

:21:08.:21:11.

needs at this point, and that should be our focus too. In what way should

:21:12.:21:21.

Mrs May change? I think there are all sorts of lessons we can pick up

:21:22.:21:26.

from the campaign and the reaction to it, even from the thing that

:21:27.:21:31.

surprised most of us, the way in which Jeremy Corbyn, in spite of all

:21:32.:21:35.

of his manifest failings, in particular his extreme political

:21:36.:21:41.

views, was able to present himself in a rather avuncular way. I didn't

:21:42.:21:47.

ask about Mr Corbyn. I'm saying I think there are some lessons there,

:21:48.:21:53.

in terms of relaxing little bit into communicating with the electorate.

:21:54.:21:56.

It is something she does very well in person, increasingly so since she

:21:57.:22:03.

became Prime Minister. That's not the experience of the campaign, the

:22:04.:22:07.

more people saw her the more they didn't like the colour of her gym.

:22:08.:22:14.

It didn't communicating the campaign, but also I think we need

:22:15.:22:18.

to see a much more open and inclusive approach within

:22:19.:22:22.

government, within Parliament as well. That's not just a kind of

:22:23.:22:28.

desirable outcome, which I think always would have been desirable and

:22:29.:22:34.

I've had this conversation with previous prime ministers as well.

:22:35.:22:38.

It's a necessity in the circumstances, trying to make a hung

:22:39.:22:42.

parliament and minority government work really requires a much more

:22:43.:22:48.

inclusive approach. You are being brought into the decision taking

:22:49.:22:53.

process on the deal being done with the DUP? I have said to the Prime

:22:54.:22:58.

Minister I think it is important she speaks to colleagues as soon as

:22:59.:23:03.

possible. I'm hoping to bring it forward to tomorrow so she can

:23:04.:23:11.

talk... But are you being involved in this more inclusive process? I am

:23:12.:23:16.

not on a negotiating team but I saw the Prime Minister very early after

:23:17.:23:20.

the election had taken place, I went to London on Friday afternoon and

:23:21.:23:23.

met with her and we had a discussion about all sorts of things that need

:23:24.:23:29.

to be addressed over the coming days and weeks. When Mrs May spoke in

:23:30.:23:32.

Downing Street after she'd gone to see the Queen, it was another

:23:33.:23:37.

robotic performance. It didn't even express any regrets for the Tories

:23:38.:23:43.

that had lost. You had to into being to get her to make a second

:23:44.:23:48.

statement, didn't you? No, she was already going to give the interview

:23:49.:23:54.

she gave. You urged her to do so. She was already scheduled to give

:23:55.:23:59.

the interview. I happen to see her in between the statement and

:24:00.:24:03.

interview, and I was keen to press home that in the past Conservative

:24:04.:24:07.

Party that has been very poor in its communications with colleagues who

:24:08.:24:11.

have lost their seats in the general election, that is something none of

:24:12.:24:15.

my colleagues likes to see so I certainly did say that I think it's

:24:16.:24:19.

important we do better this time. What bits of the manifesto will you

:24:20.:24:28.

now have to jumk for the Queen 's speech? That will be an interesting

:24:29.:24:32.

process to witness. I don't think it will just be the Queen 's speech, it

:24:33.:24:39.

will be the whole experience of government. There's no point in

:24:40.:24:43.

sailing ahead with items that were in the manifesto which we won't get

:24:44.:24:50.

through Parliament so I think we will have to work very carefully. No

:24:51.:24:58.

doubt we will slim down the Queen's speech. So tell me, which bits will

:24:59.:25:06.

you have to junk? Back to the triple lock on pensioners and no grammar

:25:07.:25:12.

schools? How about that? I would be upset if we couldn't make any

:25:13.:25:15.

progress on allowing people to have a choice of grammar schools if they

:25:16.:25:22.

wanted. Are you hoping they will drop it? If we cannot get things

:25:23.:25:27.

through Parliament, we cannot do them so I certainly would suggest

:25:28.:25:32.

that we can look for instance at a rather modest sort of pilots,

:25:33.:25:36.

opening some state grammar schools in inner urban areas, especially

:25:37.:25:41.

where education at the moment is not offering great opportunities to

:25:42.:25:43.

people of lower income backgrounds. I think that is something that could

:25:44.:25:50.

command quite broad support. I have heard from friends on the Labour

:25:51.:25:53.

ventures quietly that they would like that approach to be taken. We

:25:54.:25:59.

will certainly have to trim our policies carefully according to what

:26:00.:26:03.

we think Parliament will support. Graham Brady in Salford, thank you.

:26:04.:26:10.

Let's go to Nottingham where I am joined by Anna Soubry. In the early

:26:11.:26:14.

hours of Thursday morning you called on Theresa May to consider her

:26:15.:26:20.

position. Is that still your view? Yes, she obviously has considered

:26:21.:26:25.

her position and she is set to go in due course, but I very much agree

:26:26.:26:30.

with Graham, we don't want her to go now. We want a period of stability

:26:31.:26:36.

and she has got to reach out and form a consensus and she has got to

:26:37.:26:40.

form a consensus in particular on Brexit. She has now got to make sure

:26:41.:26:46.

she understands that the British people have rejected a hard Brexit.

:26:47.:26:51.

We are leaving the EU, I don't think there's any change there but we are

:26:52.:26:55.

not going to be leaving the EU in some irresponsible weights that will

:26:56.:26:59.

damage future generations in our country and there's a big lesson to

:27:00.:27:02.

be learned as you've already identified in your programme, about

:27:03.:27:06.

younger people and the message they have sent out in this election. I

:27:07.:27:10.

will come onto Brexit in the moment, but you have said she is set to go

:27:11.:27:15.

in due course, what does that mean? I don't know. After the summer,

:27:16.:27:24.

before the end of the year? I would have thought so. She is flawed,

:27:25.:27:32.

she's in a desperate situation. Her position is untenable and I think

:27:33.:27:36.

she knows that and she is doing the right thing, which is she's got rid

:27:37.:27:40.

of these special advisers, she's brought in Gavin Barwell, and she's

:27:41.:27:44.

listening to people from all parts of not just the party but the

:27:45.:27:48.

country. She has got to reach out more and broaden the base within her

:27:49.:27:53.

Cabinet, and she's got to include people from all parts of my party as

:27:54.:27:57.

well as all points of view across Parliament. So what impact in your

:27:58.:28:03.

view will, as you describe it, Mrs May's much more weakened position,

:28:04.:28:10.

what impact will that have on her current Brexit stance? Will she have

:28:11.:28:16.

to change it and water it down? Yes, absolutely. The country did not vote

:28:17.:28:22.

for a hard Brexit. This is based on my experience of having knocked on

:28:23.:28:26.

the literally thousands of dollars, actually since February. I have

:28:27.:28:30.

listened to a lot of people, and the idea of a hard Brexit, people didn't

:28:31.:28:39.

like that. It's one of the reasons we haven't won this election. They

:28:40.:28:44.

accept we are leaving, I accept it, but we want to get the best deal and

:28:45.:28:48.

she must not turn her back on British business as I'm afraid she

:28:49.:28:53.

has. She's got to listen to British business and Philip Hammond, she's

:28:54.:28:57.

got to listen to Greg Clark. Wise owls who know what British business

:28:58.:29:01.

once and they want that single market and they also wanted proper

:29:02.:29:06.

immigration policy that recognises we need immigrants and free movement

:29:07.:29:10.

in order for British business to continue to flourish.

:29:11.:29:16.

She has to at least listen to these things, and she hasn't in the past.

:29:17.:29:23.

Is that what Ruth Davidson, leader of the Scottish Conservatives, about

:29:24.:29:28.

the only Conservative to emerge with credit on Thursday, is that what she

:29:29.:29:33.

means? We should remain members of the single market, remain in the

:29:34.:29:37.

customs union and put the economy before immigration. Is that what you

:29:38.:29:41.

are talking about? Absolutely. And I always have. And in my literature I

:29:42.:29:47.

made it very clear I would continue to make the case for the single

:29:48.:29:51.

market and positive benefits of immigration. Although my majority

:29:52.:29:56.

was reduced, I put on 1800 more votes. It's not about me, obviously,

:29:57.:30:01.

it's about me being a Conservative, but I made my position clear and I

:30:02.:30:05.

have not faulted on that. Turning our back on the customs union in

:30:06.:30:10.

particular is the stuff of madness. The single market sees off the

:30:11.:30:14.

Nationalists and their desire for a second referendum, although the

:30:15.:30:18.

mighty Ruth Davidson is already done that with her remarkable result in

:30:19.:30:22.

Scotland, but it would also solve the problem with Ireland. Don't you

:30:23.:30:26.

risk reopening all those Tory divisions over Europe on this? I

:30:27.:30:32.

haven't. You have held these views for a long time. There are 20 of

:30:33.:30:37.

other, probably more Tories, who want what you call a hard Brexit. --

:30:38.:30:44.

plenty of other. It's what the people want. But you don't have a

:30:45.:30:50.

majority. At this election the people have spoken and they have

:30:51.:30:53.

rejected the hard Brexit. I think we can all agree on that. That doesn't

:30:54.:30:58.

mean to say we are not leaving the EU, we will leave the EU, and I

:30:59.:31:03.

believe even people who voted to remain accept we are leaving. I

:31:04.:31:08.

found very few angry Remainers on the doorsteps. People accept the

:31:09.:31:14.

result, but they do not want a hard Brexit. That's the message coming

:31:15.:31:18.

out from this and I hope Theresa May gets that. If she does, then she has

:31:19.:31:22.

to build the con census. There's nothing to stop her working with

:31:23.:31:28.

sensible people in the Labour Party, who also accept the referendum

:31:29.:31:33.

result, no we will be leaving the EU, and know we have to get the best

:31:34.:31:37.

deal, and we can't close our minds on the single market and Customs

:31:38.:31:41.

union. What are the bits of the Tory manifesto you will now have to drop

:31:42.:31:46.

to keep your new bedfellows happy in the DUP? I don't think we have

:31:47.:31:50.

reached a deal yet with the DUP. But that is the aim. Apparently it's the

:31:51.:31:56.

aim. I will tell you now, Andrew, you probably know far more than I

:31:57.:32:01.

do. I get on well with a number of members of the DUP. I don't like a

:32:02.:32:09.

lot of their policies on abortion, gay and lesbian issues, I completely

:32:10.:32:13.

disagree with them, but if we can put those issues aside and put the

:32:14.:32:17.

focus on making a stable government and putting the national interest

:32:18.:32:25.

first, we might well make strides forward. Many people have been

:32:26.:32:32.

talking about public services and public sector pay, but we have to do

:32:33.:32:38.

recognise that at the same time we are going into choppy economic

:32:39.:32:42.

waters, and that's why I think it's so important Theresa May listens to

:32:43.:32:46.

Philip Hammond and puts him much more at the core and front of this

:32:47.:32:50.

government. It's the economy that matters more than anything else.

:32:51.:32:54.

That's one of the spectacular failings of the campaign. The issue

:32:55.:32:59.

that was hardly mentioned during the campaign. Never mentioned it. Anna

:33:00.:33:04.

Soubry, we will leave it there. After Theresa May had been to see

:33:05.:33:07.

the Queen at Buckingham Palace on Friday she made a brief statement on

:33:08.:33:10.

Friday. We can remind ourselves what she said.

:33:11.:33:15.

We will continue to work with our friends and allies,

:33:16.:33:17.

in the Democratic Unionist Party in particular.

:33:18.:33:19.

Our two parties have enjoyed a strong relationship over many

:33:20.:33:21.

years, and this gives me the confidence to believe

:33:22.:33:23.

that we will be able to work together in the interests

:33:24.:33:26.

This will allow us to come together as a country

:33:27.:33:30.

and channel our energies towards a successful

:33:31.:33:35.

Brexit deal that works for everyone in this country.

:33:36.:33:39.

Securing a new partnership with the EU that guarantees our

:33:40.:33:43.

That's what people voted for last June, that's what we will deliver.

:33:44.:33:48.

I've been joined by the Conservative MP Dominic Raab -

:33:49.:34:02.

a former government minister who's been tipped for a return in Theresa

:34:03.:34:05.

We shall see. Welcome to the programme. Her two most senior

:34:06.:34:14.

advisers have fallen on their swords. Most of the Cabinet has gone

:34:15.:34:18.

to ground since the result. Could Theresa May be any more isolated? I

:34:19.:34:23.

don't think that's true. You have three Cabinet ministers doing

:34:24.:34:25.

television this morning. We are in the middle of a reshuffle, so you

:34:26.:34:29.

wouldn't expect them all to be out on the airwaves, and we also in the

:34:30.:34:33.

business of hammering out the detail on the supply and confidence

:34:34.:34:37.

arrangement with the DUP. Where are we on that? On the question of Chief

:34:38.:34:43.

of staff, a new appointment has been made, Gavin Barwell, I know him

:34:44.:34:48.

well, a smart policy guide and also very sensitive on the political

:34:49.:34:50.

radar and that shows we are moving forward. It was forced on her. I

:34:51.:34:57.

think they did the honourable thing. The two aids that fell on their

:34:58.:35:04.

sword? Yes. The key point is, looking forward, which we have to

:35:05.:35:07.

do, we had the outcome of the election and the people have spoken

:35:08.:35:11.

and we have to make the best of it. Gavin Barwell is an important

:35:12.:35:17.

appointment. Conservative MPs across-the-board know, respect and

:35:18.:35:20.

trust him. Nobody in the country has heard of him, but maybe that doesn't

:35:21.:35:25.

matter. How many had heard of Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill before they

:35:26.:35:30.

were appointed? They do now. Do you agree with Anna Soubry that Theresa

:35:31.:35:33.

May is no more than a caretaker Prime Minister now? I don't.

:35:34.:35:40.

Emotions are way up. But we still won the most votes and most seats.

:35:41.:35:44.

My reading from talking to MPs across-the-board is the overwhelming

:35:45.:35:50.

majority want to see Theresa May continue in office. As a matter of

:35:51.:35:53.

necessity, the people have spoken, and we have to respect what the

:35:54.:35:57.

people have decided, so we will do this supply and confidence

:35:58.:36:01.

arrangement with the DUP. There are strong areas of overlap but we don't

:36:02.:36:03.

agree on everything. The key thing is to give the country certainty and

:36:04.:36:07.

direction moving forward. That's the only viable option and people are

:36:08.:36:11.

rallying behind that. Not all. George Osborne said this morning on

:36:12.:36:15.

the BBC that Mrs May was a dead woman walking. He has made the

:36:16.:36:25.

transition from Conservative MP to mischievous journalist with ease.

:36:26.:36:28.

Most MPs when they listen to that will think it's disloyal,

:36:29.:36:32.

unprofessional and frankly pretty self-indulgent. In reality I think

:36:33.:36:35.

it will shore up support among a lot of MPs for Theresa May. What went

:36:36.:36:42.

wrong? I'm not going to candy coat, sugar-coat the result here. We did

:36:43.:36:45.

far worse than expected and we need to figure out the lessons to learn.

:36:46.:36:54.

I know it went wrong, but why? There isn't anyone thing. You have to take

:36:55.:36:57.

time to learn the lessons. We need to show some humility about the

:36:58.:37:01.

result. Nick Timothy has written a column that touches on some of the

:37:02.:37:04.

issues from his perspective. To be honest with you, I'm focused now, I

:37:05.:37:08.

missed all the drama and disappointment of not getting the

:37:09.:37:12.

result we wanted, focus on the facts. We got 56 more seats than the

:37:13.:37:17.

Labour Party and we are the only ones who can put together a

:37:18.:37:20.

legitimate parliament that can also be affected, passing a judgment and

:37:21.:37:24.

pass legislation, however tricky it may be. That remains to be seen, you

:37:25.:37:29.

might not be able to do that. We are the only ones, with the DUP, who

:37:30.:37:33.

could form a viable and effective government that would reflect

:37:34.:37:35.

legitimately the outcome of the election and we will focus 100% on

:37:36.:37:42.

that. Let's do that. Mrs May promised strength and stability. We

:37:43.:37:44.

now have a hung parliament and she is dependent on the DUP for the

:37:45.:37:50.

slimmest of majorities. There is nothing strong and stable about

:37:51.:37:54.

that. I have said to you, I will not tell you this result is the one we

:37:55.:37:59.

wanted. We are disappointed. It's not strong and stable. It can still

:38:00.:38:02.

be effective. It's also the only outcome that can respect and be

:38:03.:38:07.

legitimate of the outcome of the election. At the end of the day, we

:38:08.:38:10.

had campaigning, we can differ on the opinions, but the facts and

:38:11.:38:14.

parliamentary arithmetic is there. The only way we can have an

:38:15.:38:17.

effective government of any time that Del Paso budget is the

:38:18.:38:20.

Conservatives with the support of the DUP. To do that you'll have to

:38:21.:38:25.

make compromises you would not have to do make if you had won a

:38:26.:38:29.

substantial majority. What part of the manifesto will have to go to get

:38:30.:38:33.

a budget and a confidence motion through? 48 hours after the election

:38:34.:38:37.

I can't answer that definitively. What we do have to do, every MP,

:38:38.:38:42.

whatever part of the country they were elected, has to deliver as best

:38:43.:38:47.

can be manifesto commitments. At the same time, that's what the country

:38:48.:38:51.

expects. At the same time we had forced on us the need to be

:38:52.:38:55.

flexible. The people didn't vote for your manifesto in the end. Something

:38:56.:38:58.

has to go. The triple lock for pensioners that you were going to

:38:59.:39:01.

change, the DUP is in favour of the triple lock. Does that bit of the

:39:02.:39:08.

manifesto go? You can ask me any aspect of the manifesto, we'll know

:39:09.:39:12.

more answers the detail next week. You were on our programmes more than

:39:13.:39:16.

any Cabinet minister. You will be drafted back in. You should know. I

:39:17.:39:21.

don't bet too much money on the tittle tattle in the media. We have

:39:22.:39:27.

the outline of the supply and confidence arrangement with the DUP.

:39:28.:39:31.

We are hammering out the details. Next week we will publish the

:39:32.:39:37.

details. What about social care? You asking me about different points in

:39:38.:39:41.

a manifesto but you know I can't answer that question until... I want

:39:42.:39:45.

to deliver as much of the manifesto as possible. You don't have a

:39:46.:39:49.

mandate to do that. That's because we've got... The Queen's speech is

:39:50.:39:54.

only a week away, a week tomorrow. You are trying to work out what

:39:55.:40:01.

parts, Labour lost, but you didn't win, and I'm trying to work out how

:40:02.:40:05.

you just said we will have to comprise and make changes. It's

:40:06.:40:09.

legitimate to ask which parts... I'm explaining I don't have the answers

:40:10.:40:13.

on the detail because until we have formed the supply and confidence

:40:14.:40:16.

arrangement with the DUP, we will not have those details. My starting

:40:17.:40:20.

point is that we deliver as much of the manifesto as we conceivably can.

:40:21.:40:23.

That's what the country expects because that's what they are elected

:40:24.:40:27.

us to do. They have given us their verdict, we need to respect the

:40:28.:40:31.

outcome of the election and we will not do it in the same way will as if

:40:32.:40:33.

we had a stonking majority, obviously. The result has given a

:40:34.:40:40.

kind of new spring in the step of politicians who wanted to remain in

:40:41.:40:45.

the European Union. What do you make, and we heard Anna Soubry, and

:40:46.:40:49.

many others have said it as well, that you need to reconsider your

:40:50.:40:54.

Brexit stands, and in their language community soften your Brexit stands.

:40:55.:40:59.

Whether you are a Scottish, Welsh or English MP, elected to Parliament

:41:00.:41:02.

behind me on the basis of a manifesto that sets out in great

:41:03.:41:07.

detail, a 75 page white Paper, the approach to Brexit. All this talk of

:41:08.:41:11.

hard Brexit, our ambition is to get the best possible deal we can with

:41:12.:41:18.

our EU partners. Do you change your stands because you didn't get a

:41:19.:41:21.

majority for your Brexit position. Do you follow the advice of Ruth

:41:22.:41:25.

Davidson, who talked of an open Brexit, framing a new Brexit

:41:26.:41:29.

strategy? Hard and soft Brexit, I don't know exactly what Ruth means

:41:30.:41:34.

by that. But she did a great job in Scotland. But every MP was elected

:41:35.:41:39.

on our manifesto. We will deliver the plans of that manifesto as best

:41:40.:41:43.

we can, including and especially on Brexit. Just a point of fact,

:41:44.:41:49.

obviously be Conservative number of votes went up, Labour effectively...

:41:50.:41:55.

The vote share went up, but we lost seats, but we are 56 seats ahead of

:41:56.:41:59.

the Labour Party. The Labour Party effectively endorsed the leave the

:42:00.:42:02.

EU strategy we set out and they didn't offer a alternative. So no

:42:03.:42:10.

change on the Brexit strategy? And the anti-Brexit parties, the SNP and

:42:11.:42:14.

Lib Dem, both suffered a fall in their vote share. The country has

:42:15.:42:17.

said they want us to make a success of Brexit. So no change? The plans

:42:18.:42:23.

in the White Paper set out are the right ones and the voters expect us

:42:24.:42:27.

to deliver on the manifesto we ran on, whether you are a Scottish,

:42:28.:42:33.

English or Welsh MP. I can hear your helicopter arriving to whisk you off

:42:34.:42:37.

to the wry ministerial meeting. Let us know what job you get. Viewers in

:42:38.:42:41.

Scotland will leave us for Sunday Politics Scotland now. Jeremy

:42:42.:42:44.

Corbyn... Jeremy Corbyn may have

:42:45.:42:47.

lost the election, but he's clearly cock-a-hoop

:42:48.:42:49.

with the big increase in Labour's share of the vote and

:42:50.:42:51.

the nmber of Labour On Friday he called

:42:52.:42:53.

on Theresa May to resign, and said he was ready to govern

:42:54.:42:57.

the country as a minority Speaking this morning, the Labour

:42:58.:43:02.

leader said he thought there could be another election in the near

:43:03.:43:08.

future. I think it's quite possible that there will be an election later

:43:09.:43:11.

this year or early next year. And that might be a good thing, because

:43:12.:43:16.

we cannot go on with a period of great instability. We have a

:43:17.:43:20.

programme, we have the support, and we are ready to fight another

:43:21.:43:24.

election campaign as soon as may be because you want to be able to serve

:43:25.:43:28.

the people of this country on the agenda we put forward, which is

:43:29.:43:32.

transformative, and has gained amazing levels of support. People

:43:33.:43:38.

say, hang on, why are my children worse off than we are, why are my

:43:39.:43:42.

grandchildren? This election wasn't just about Brexit, there was

:43:43.:43:46.

something different about it. It was challenging the economic consensus

:43:47.:43:47.

that has impoverished Sony people. The Labour

:43:48.:43:51.

leader speaking earlier this morning.

:43:52.:43:52.

We've been joined by the Shadow Health Secretary, Jon Ashworth.

:43:53.:43:59.

A lot of Labour people have been behaving as if you have won this

:44:00.:44:06.

election, can I point out you have lost three in a row?

:44:07.:44:11.

Yes, but undoubtedly momentum is with us, and momentum is important

:44:12.:44:21.

in politics. It looks like they got the young vote out and that's why

:44:22.:44:25.

you did better-than-expected. The young vote certainly came out for

:44:26.:44:31.

Labour. I found on my part of the world Tory voters switching to

:44:32.:44:35.

Labour over things like the dementia tax, but I also think Ukip

:44:36.:44:42.

supporters voted heavily for Labour because we wanted to invest heavily

:44:43.:44:48.

in the NHS and schools, and people are fed up of cuts to public

:44:49.:44:53.

services and the austerity agenda. So it was a good manifesto? You were

:44:54.:45:00.

happy with it? Yes, I was part of putting it together. You would be

:45:01.:45:05.

happy to fight another election based on that manifesto? Yes, I put

:45:06.:45:10.

together the health section of that manifesto, which gives nurses and

:45:11.:45:15.

midwives of the pay rise, I'm very happy with that manifesto. And yet,

:45:16.:45:20.

you have this manifesto you were happy with, you will rub against a

:45:21.:45:25.

Prime Minister who wanted to fight a personality led presidential

:45:26.:45:28.

campaign, it then turned out the British people didn't think she had

:45:29.:45:32.

much personality and wasn't presidential in nature. You had

:45:33.:45:37.

momentum and you ended up winning no more seats than Gordon Brown in the

:45:38.:45:45.

collection of 2010. Given where we were seven weeks ago, I looked at

:45:46.:45:49.

the opinion polls and thought crikey, this could not be a good

:45:50.:45:55.

result for Labour potentially. Theresa May thought she would have a

:45:56.:45:58.

landslide victory and that's why she put her party first in going for

:45:59.:46:04.

this snap election, and undoubtedly this campaign changed things. I

:46:05.:46:07.

think the key moment was the manifesto week when the Labour Party

:46:08.:46:12.

but forward proposed policies to the country which excited many people,

:46:13.:46:17.

and the Tory party came forward with the dementia tax, getting rid of the

:46:18.:46:20.

winter fuel payment, I think that was a turning point in the election.

:46:21.:46:26.

What does Mr Corbyn do now? When I spoke to Ken Livingstone on Friday

:46:27.:46:31.

he said we did so well on a socialist manifesto, we need more of

:46:32.:46:36.

this. We need more socialism and we will do even better. Is that the

:46:37.:46:41.

lesson Jeremy Corbyn will take or try to reach out more to the centre

:46:42.:46:46.

of his party, now his position is unassailable does he try to reach

:46:47.:46:51.

out beyond his own group? I think there is broad unity and the whole

:46:52.:46:55.

party will come together to take on the Conservatives, who now have a

:46:56.:46:59.

huge problem in Parliament. They can only offer a weak and unstable

:47:00.:47:10.

government. She's trying to cobble together this supply and confidence

:47:11.:47:13.

agreement with the DUP which means all of the decisions in Parliament

:47:14.:47:16.

will be taken on a case-by-case basis. It isn't just the votes on

:47:17.:47:26.

the floor of the House, all of is the statutory instruments will rely

:47:27.:47:29.

on the support of the DUP. She will not be able to guarantee she can get

:47:30.:47:34.

her programme through. We are likely to sue the Government collapse or

:47:35.:47:38.

have a zombie Parliament where we are not debating and voting on

:47:39.:47:41.

legislation because she knows she cannot get it through. If that's the

:47:42.:47:46.

case, even if she puts together a deal with the DUP and it gets off

:47:47.:47:50.

the ground but runs into the kind of difficulties you quite rightly say

:47:51.:47:54.

are possible, and she cannot continue, should Mr Corbyn try to

:47:55.:48:00.

form a minority government? I think so, I think we should try to put our

:48:01.:48:04.

programme of getting rid of tuition fees, investing in the NHS, and ask

:48:05.:48:11.

the other parties to support us. I'm anticipating your next question

:48:12.:48:14.

which is what happens if that doesn't work, well then we are

:48:15.:48:18.

probably heading to another general election at some point. I cannot

:48:19.:48:21.

seem Theresa May surviving as the Prime Minister for the rest of this

:48:22.:48:25.

Parliament for another five days to be frank but who knows. It's likely

:48:26.:48:31.

that you think Mrs May cannot make this work, she can start to make it

:48:32.:48:35.

work but as time goes on it could become more difficult, that Labour

:48:36.:48:40.

could try to form a minority government but given that the

:48:41.:48:43.

Parliamentary arithmetic is not great for her, it is much worse for

:48:44.:48:50.

you, that it may not work? Yes, but you have a responsibility to try and

:48:51.:49:00.

to challenge the other parties to support us honour policies of

:49:01.:49:02.

investing in the NHS, investing in childcare, so that will be a

:49:03.:49:08.

challenge for us but if the Conservatives cannot form a

:49:09.:49:12.

government we would have to take up that responsibility. John McDonnell,

:49:13.:49:16.

the Shadow Chancellor, said to me during the campaign there would be

:49:17.:49:21.

no deals. You don't have to have deals. As I said to him, we have all

:49:22.:49:36.

seen Borgen! They require deals, you have got to give them something. But

:49:37.:49:39.

when you have an minority government, challenging MPs on the

:49:40.:49:48.

other side to support new... My voters in Leicester South were not

:49:49.:49:51.

invited to make a judgment on the DUP manifesto and yet we could have

:49:52.:49:55.

a Conservative government propped up by the time being by the DUP, even

:49:56.:49:59.

though that will have a huge impact on the peace process. I think it is

:50:00.:50:09.

a different arrangement. A minority Labour government wouldn't

:50:10.:50:11.

necessarily rule out getting support from the DUP, they might need it? If

:50:12.:50:17.

they vote for us, everyone will see it because it will be transparent in

:50:18.:50:22.

the way they vote. It does seem we are in for a period of instability

:50:23.:50:27.

in British politics, that is the outcome of this election, and

:50:28.:50:30.

usually when that happens it leads to a second election quite quickly.

:50:31.:50:35.

It could lead to that, and it is ironic given the Tories promised a

:50:36.:50:40.

strong and stable government, and the chaos she warned of is actually

:50:41.:50:44.

chaos in the Tory party, but look at the number of seats in play at the

:50:45.:50:49.

next election now. It will be a Labour Tory stand-off and as a whole

:50:50.:50:53.

range of seats now with Tory majorities of a few hundred which

:50:54.:50:58.

Labour is targeting. Seats which based on the 2015 result we didn't

:50:59.:51:03.

think we could win. And Scotland is in play for Labour again, and it is

:51:04.:51:07.

Scottish MPs sustaining Theresa May in Government at the moment. The

:51:08.:51:12.

message in Scotland will be, if you want a Labour government, both

:51:13.:51:18.

Labour. I bet you never thought you would say that, but let's leave it

:51:19.:51:19.

there. Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics

:51:20.:51:31.

in Northern Ireland. And we find ourselves

:51:32.:51:33.

slap bang in the middle the attempts by Theresa May to form

:51:34.:51:36.

a minority government. So what will the deal,

:51:37.:51:40.

if there is one, look like? The DUP says it's not

:51:41.:51:45.

in a position to take part so talking about that

:51:46.:51:47.

potential agreement, plus their own election

:51:48.:51:50.

performances, are representatives

:51:51.:51:51.

from Sinn Fein, the SDLP, We'll also have analysis

:51:52.:51:53.

from Stephen Walker in London and Allison Morris and

:51:54.:52:00.

Newton Emerson will be joining me in studio later

:52:01.:52:01.

to share their thoughts a remarkable few days

:52:02.:52:03.

of political upheaval. and try to work out how precisely

:52:04.:52:16.

we got to where we are, there's also the big question

:52:17.:52:20.

about where we might be going. We know the Conservative Chief Whip

:52:21.:52:23.

spent yesterday in Belfast Meantime in Westminster,

:52:24.:52:26.

fears have been expressed about the DUP's approach to social

:52:27.:52:31.

and moral issues. Here's our Political

:52:32.:52:35.

Correspondent, Gareth Gordon. Theresa May has never been exactly

:52:36.:52:50.

noted for her interest in Northern Ireland, but all of that appears to

:52:51.:52:55.

have changed, and in a big way. This foray into East Belfast last week

:52:56.:52:59.

brought her part the not so princely sum of 446 votes. But the DUP gives

:53:00.:53:09.

political salvation for now. At what price? They are tough. They are

:53:10.:53:12.

going to dry a very hard bargain and, like the 27 leaders in Europe,

:53:13.:53:16.

they have seen they are not dealing with somebody strong and stable,

:53:17.:53:19.

they are dealing with somebody who caves. They are going to have her

:53:20.:53:23.

around their little finger and, frankly, they have already got there

:53:24.:53:33.

by the speed with which she has done this today. The former spin doctor

:53:34.:53:37.

was speaking from experience of the DUP. Others are downright hostile.

:53:38.:53:39.

We have the party like the DUP, which is anti-same-sex marriage,

:53:40.:53:42.

which denies climate change, at the forefront of British politics, and I

:53:43.:53:45.

am absolutely petrified at the prospect of such a coalition of

:53:46.:53:49.

chaos. Similar views were expressed at a protest in London yesterday.

:53:50.:53:56.

DUP has got to go! Racist, sexist, anti-gay! But this former junior

:53:57.:54:02.

minister says those views of the party are out of date. A caricature

:54:03.:54:06.

of a party that may have existed 30 years ago. In the last ten years,

:54:07.:54:11.

the book as has been on growing the economy, growing our tourism

:54:12.:54:13.

industry. We have held a department in the past that has helped us get

:54:14.:54:17.

the record levels of FDI, grow tourism and get major international

:54:18.:54:21.

events and I think that is where the focus of the modern DUP years.

:54:22.:54:24.

Concerns have already been expressed to Theresa May the leader of the

:54:25.:54:34.

Scottish Conservatives, who is gay and thin plans to marry her partner.

:54:35.:54:37.

I was fairly straightforward weather. I told her there is a

:54:38.:54:39.

number of things that count to me more than party. One of them is

:54:40.:54:42.

country, one of the others is LGBT rates. I asked for a categoric

:54:43.:54:45.

assurance that there would be, if any deal or scoping deal with done

:54:46.:54:48.

with the DUP, there would be absolutely no retention of LGBT

:54:49.:54:55.

rates in the rest of the UK and Great Britain and that we would try

:54:56.:54:58.

to use any influence that we had to advance those rights in Northern

:54:59.:55:02.

Ireland. You don't have to go to Britain to find sceptics about the

:55:03.:55:08.

DUP conservative deal. Oh mixed views on Carrick Vargas yesterday

:55:09.:55:12.

but they are remembered King Billy's arrival in Ireland before the Battle

:55:13.:55:16.

of the Boyne. It is particularly. Lots of English voters do not know

:55:17.:55:19.

what they have let themselves and four. It is a good thing. If it will

:55:20.:55:24.

help the country, I do not why not. I would love to hope and pray that

:55:25.:55:30.

the DUP can go and get things for us, but can we get Stormont up and

:55:31.:55:34.

running again please, local politicians? Just work together for

:55:35.:55:39.

once, would you, please? The DUP Masie Theresa May's skin, but could

:55:40.:55:43.

the price be the end of devolution at Stormont? Talks aimed at

:55:44.:55:49.

restoring power-sharing are due to resume tomorrow. What impact it

:55:50.:55:53.

enabled the DUP had been conservative deal had on them? The

:55:54.:55:56.

British government has made a mistake, even in the recent past, of

:55:57.:55:59.

siding with the DUP and holding up progress, preventing us reaching an

:56:00.:56:04.

agreement on real power-sharing. As the British government wants to try

:56:05.:56:07.

to unite with the DUP to turn back the clock, the mandate we received

:56:08.:56:11.

on Thursday to make sure we do not allow anybody to turn back the clock

:56:12.:56:14.

to the bus but instead continue to make progress. The fact that

:56:15.:56:19.

potentially the DUP will be the Conservatives' government partners

:56:20.:56:22.

asks very major questions about their ability to be an independent

:56:23.:56:26.

guarantor of the agreement, or any of the processes here. Talks to

:56:27.:56:30.

restore Stormont are no longer the biggest item on the DUP's in trade.

:56:31.:56:34.

Devolution may have to wait. To discuss, we have

:56:35.:56:36.

Mairtin O'Muilleoir from Sinn Fein. And Stephen Farry from

:56:37.:56:40.

the Alliance party. The DUP said it wasn't

:56:41.:56:46.

in a position to put anyone

:56:47.:56:48.

forward for the programme. We're going to talk about the deal

:56:49.:57:01.

between the DUP and the Tories, of course.

:57:02.:57:02.

Mairtin O'Muilleoir, that report ended with you warning

:57:03.:57:04.

about the Conservatives hindering a deal

:57:05.:57:05.

between the DUP and Sinn Fein at Stormont.

:57:06.:57:07.

The talks are supposed to start tomorrow.

:57:08.:57:09.

Well, Sinn Fein will be at Stormont tomorrow. As you know, all of the

:57:10.:57:18.

issues around agreement at Stormont could be sorted out expeditiously,

:57:19.:57:22.

but I do think this new coalition, weather a coalition of chaos or

:57:23.:57:25.

whatever, between the DUP and Tories will mean an assault on issues of

:57:26.:57:29.

rates, respect and it will make a deal harder. There will be a price

:57:30.:57:36.

to pay. The Tories are still wedded to austerity. As the DUP? Sir

:57:37.:57:40.

Michael Farren, the Defence Secretary, a senior defence sector,

:57:41.:57:46.

has said the deal will be about the DUP's support in government on big

:57:47.:57:49.

economic and security issues. A lot of these things that people are

:57:50.:57:52.

talking about expressing concerns about are not actually part of any

:57:53.:57:56.

agreement being discussed. Of course, the DUP and Tories have not

:57:57.:57:59.

spell out the nature of the deal yet. There has been a bit of a

:58:00.:58:07.

wobble. Fallon spelt that out. Yesterday were told there was a deal

:58:08.:58:10.

and now it is so and process because there's been a backlash from the

:58:11.:58:13.

British people. It will end in tears but how long will it last? Will it

:58:14.:58:16.

all because the British people say they do not want to have a coalition

:58:17.:58:19.

with a party which is anti-gay, and he respect, and the Irish language?

:58:20.:58:26.

In all stanzas, the DUP is more in 1977 than it I really do think the

:58:27.:58:32.

British people and media are asking why we are getting into bed with an

:58:33.:58:35.

organisation which in the last election was endorsed by the UDA,

:58:36.:58:40.

UBS, the red hand commando. Theresa May warned about extremism in

:58:41.:58:46.

politics and now performing a... You know that members of that party said

:58:47.:58:49.

they did not want that endorsement. The MP for South Belfast is still

:58:50.:58:53.

not renounced that endorsement and neither has the leader. Nicola,

:58:54.:58:59.

Charlie Flanagan, the public's Minister for foreign affairs, has

:59:00.:59:02.

said that the objectivity of both the British and Irish governments is

:59:03.:59:05.

key as far as the Stormont negotiations are concerned. What is

:59:06.:59:08.

your understanding? Or, to the wider issue about that relationship

:59:09.:59:11.

between the Tories and the DUP and what that might mean for the

:59:12.:59:14.

governance of the UK any moment, but in terms of its implications for

:59:15.:59:17.

politics here in Northern Ireland, at Stormont, what is your reading of

:59:18.:59:21.

where we are? It is very serious, Mark. The SDLP were clear at the

:59:22.:59:29.

beginning of the first round of talks that the secretary of state

:59:30.:59:32.

could not be accepted as an honest broker, particularly when it came to

:59:33.:59:34.

the past. The British government are expected to be called guarantors of

:59:35.:59:37.

the Good Friday Agreement. We expressed that concern. That was

:59:38.:59:40.

then, and the situation... It has got even worse. Our first task is to

:59:41.:59:46.

agree on an impartial jury. That needs to be neither side of business

:59:47.:59:49.

first thing tomorrow morning. But it must not be allowed to run on and be

:59:50.:59:53.

used as an excuse for not getting down to dogs and not getting the

:59:54.:59:57.

institutions and running. I am sorry to raise the phrase red line, but is

:59:58.:00:03.

that a line in the sand as far as you're concerned? There has to be an

:00:04.:00:10.

independent doctor present? Anybody with in a sense looking at the

:00:11.:00:13.

situation would realise that needs to happen. How can you have a

:00:14.:00:15.

Secretary of State sitting at the table as an honest broker when they

:00:16.:00:20.

are actually in understanding or agreement or arrangement, because

:00:21.:00:22.

you're still not quite sure, with one of the parties round the table,

:00:23.:00:26.

while also having the duty and responsibility of being a co-current

:00:27.:00:29.

order of the Good Friday Agreement? It is not possible and anybody that

:00:30.:00:33.

pretend otherwise is ludicrous. Do you accept that the situation has

:00:34.:00:36.

changed? You might not have felt that before, but the accepted means

:00:37.:00:46.

to be the case now? We are in a completely unique and different

:00:47.:00:48.

situation. This is a very fluid and movable piece at the moment. I think

:00:49.:00:50.

the main action initially will continue to be at Westminster. Yes,

:00:51.:00:54.

we will come under that, I promise, any moment or two, but as far as

:00:55.:00:57.

Stormont is concerned, will your talks team be turning up to Stormont

:00:58.:01:01.

tomorrow to begin that three-week process? The Ulster Unionists will

:01:02.:01:04.

be at Stormont tomorrow and hoping I'm expecting to see progress in

:01:05.:01:11.

getting the Stormont institutions back up and running again. But are

:01:12.:01:17.

you satisfied? That is what you want, that is what you see people

:01:18.:01:22.

want, but you satisfied that a Secretary of State for Northern

:01:23.:01:25.

Ireland will be able to demonstrate the kind of independence and

:01:26.:01:28.

objectivity that would be required to reach an agreement between all

:01:29.:01:32.

the parties? The Secretary of State, and indeed the Prime Minister, have

:01:33.:01:37.

made no secret of their own news and views.

:01:38.:01:40.

They are strongly prounion. But it is a different scenario now. We

:01:41.:01:46.

welcome that the board. It is a fact of life that they have the

:01:47.:01:50.

responsibility to administer the political affairs of Northern

:01:51.:01:53.

Ireland. But they would be in bed with the DUP. It is a completely

:01:54.:01:58.

different scenario. We are in a very fluid situation. Let's see what

:01:59.:02:01.

happens at Westminster, if a deal can be brought together, and let's

:02:02.:02:07.

also see then what repercussions it has potentially for Stormont. Where

:02:08.:02:12.

you stand on a British Secretary of State 's objectivity, Stephen? There

:02:13.:02:18.

is no a massive problem. Things were difficult before hand but he cannot

:02:19.:02:21.

be objective in this contact any longer. And any circumstances?, even

:02:22.:02:26.

if they go out and try to save water to be impartial mediators and try to

:02:27.:02:29.

decouple what has happened in Westminster from Northern Ireland,

:02:30.:02:32.

the reality is that a difficult decision as to be taken, whether now

:02:33.:02:36.

or in six months. The Conservative Secretary of State, the UK

:02:37.:02:40.

Government, will have one hand tied behind our back because if they push

:02:41.:02:44.

the DUP into any issue, as they annoy them, the DUP will pull the

:02:45.:02:46.

plug on whatever arrangement they have and the thing will come

:02:47.:02:49.

crashing down. You're going to have to get over that. The facts of life

:02:50.:02:53.

are it is the Conservative administration. It may well have the

:02:54.:03:01.

support of the DUP, but it is a Conservative and Unionist and just

:03:02.:03:03.

it. But surely the point is that if it comes to it, when undercooked --

:03:04.:03:06.

normal circumstances the secretary of state would be pressuring the DUP

:03:07.:03:09.

to agree to something that is not particularly keen about, the DUP

:03:10.:03:13.

will tell it to get stuff? Those are the challenges. The alternative, of

:03:14.:03:17.

course, to the DUP is to potentially hand the keys of Downing Street to

:03:18.:03:21.

Germany Corbin. Not many unionists in Northern Ireland... The maths

:03:22.:03:26.

won't let that happen. They can trigger an early general election.

:03:27.:03:30.

The Conservative Party, in theory, can run on minority administration

:03:31.:03:34.

and seek allies across the spectrum on different issues as they come

:03:35.:03:39.

along, in particular as they were to pursue a more pragmatic approach to

:03:40.:03:43.

a softer Brexit and forego what they the manifesto, they might find

:03:44.:03:47.

support elsewhere in the House of Commons on different issues. They do

:03:48.:03:50.

not need to do is cause a one-on-one deal with the DUP for stability, in

:03:51.:03:54.

terms of the UK. If they want to, you cannot stop them. They cannot

:03:55.:03:58.

stop them from doing that but the repercussions for Northern Ireland

:03:59.:04:00.

are potentially severe. Do you think the prospect of a

:04:01.:04:08.

restoration of devolution instalment are further away than ever? They are

:04:09.:04:13.

more difficult, not impossible. I wouldn't want to rule it out but

:04:14.:04:15.

there are two particular challenges. We have Sinn Fein is in a stronger

:04:16.:04:22.

position, but further apart from the DUP than we've seen in the past.

:04:23.:04:28.

Also, the sharing of independence, in terms of governance, one of the

:04:29.:04:31.

key partners in a potential coalition has an in-built advantage

:04:32.:04:35.

which outweighs that of the other parties, we don't have that proper

:04:36.:04:42.

equilibrium. Those of us who've never seen the British Government is

:04:43.:04:47.

independent in these matters are not surprised at all by this formal

:04:48.:04:52.

coalition. The British Government has been a player here. We've never

:04:53.:04:56.

said we would accept the independence of the Secretary of

:04:57.:04:59.

State. Do you agree it is certainly more difficult but not impossible to

:05:00.:05:04.

reach a deal? What I do believe is the British Government of finding a

:05:05.:05:11.

deal when the talks were sabotaged by the calling of an election force

:05:12.:05:17.

of the British Government has never been a passer-by or someone who is

:05:18.:05:23.

just spectating. The Stormont has agreement and legacy failed because

:05:24.:05:29.

the British Governor grenade, -- Renate. -- act out. -- backed out.

:05:30.:05:45.

Of course it changes. But the non-unionist... No, no, no... The

:05:46.:05:48.

non-unionist parties have to get over the fact, including Sinn Fein

:05:49.:05:54.

and SDLP... They have to get over the political fact of life that the

:05:55.:05:59.

Conservative Government re-elected, possibly with the assistance of a

:06:00.:06:02.

Democratic Unionist party, that is the situation... It answers to the

:06:03.:06:14.

DUP tumour. Your former party leader said yesterday it wouldn't be a good

:06:15.:06:17.

idea for the UK Government to be dependent on any regional party. We

:06:18.:06:24.

have yet to see the detail. Lets see because overnight... He said

:06:25.:06:27.

Conservative backbenchers will not want to be held to ransom by the

:06:28.:06:31.

DUP. That's properly correct but there is a case of political need

:06:32.:06:36.

for the current Prime Minister. We are in a desperate situation, there

:06:37.:06:42.

appears to be some nervousness on behalf of the DUP overnight so let's

:06:43.:06:46.

see where this takes us over the next couple of days. Danny is making

:06:47.:06:52.

his point but let's be sensible about this, OK. Say you have a

:06:53.:06:55.

dispute in the workplace so you bring in a mediator, are we saying

:06:56.:06:59.

it acceptable media as part of the management structure? It's as simple

:07:00.:07:05.

as that. How do we get over this? We agree on an impartial chair to get

:07:06.:07:10.

the talks up and running as a matter of urgency. Stephen is right, the

:07:11.:07:13.

problem is we just had an election with an increasingly polarised

:07:14.:07:17.

result. People have bigger mandate, they remind us about it, but what

:07:18.:07:20.

are you going to do with those mandates? People are desperate to

:07:21.:07:26.

get the institutions up and running. Words are great but it's time we got

:07:27.:07:29.

the institutions up and running and if we did have a budget, all of

:07:30.:07:33.

those things, schools would not be in a situation they are in, and

:07:34.:07:36.

hospitals also, also, that's the key task. You said throughout this

:07:37.:07:42.

campaign, Mairtin O'Muilleoir, Northern Ireland MPs did not, could

:07:43.:07:45.

not, have any influence at Westminster and that's why you have

:07:46.:07:48.

the abstention is the policy you have but you'd been proved

:07:49.:07:52.

completely wrong because the DUP cartel wagging the Tory dog. Arlene

:07:53.:07:58.

Foster and her ten MPs are about to have influence. Lets see what

:07:59.:08:02.

happens this week and what this coalition tries to bring about and

:08:03.:08:08.

that will be wide the DUP will be dictating to Theresa May where she

:08:09.:08:13.

stands on rights and respectful stop it could be very good. Here is the

:08:14.:08:17.

difficulty for Sinn Fein. This could deliver for people in Northern

:08:18.:08:21.

Ireland, we had Arlene Foster say this morning, this is about

:08:22.:08:25.

delivering for everybody in Northern Ireland, bringing investment,

:08:26.:08:30.

benefits, ending austerity, and about the DUP's manifesto

:08:31.:08:32.

commitments being delivered in Westminster in a way no one could've

:08:33.:08:35.

imagined three or days ago. I have no doubt this coalition will be the

:08:36.:08:46.

worst for the LGBT community. Those issues are not being discussed. They

:08:47.:08:53.

are not part of the agenda. The DUP is not in favour of marriage

:08:54.:08:59.

equality. They won't turn it might. It will be difficulty in equal

:09:00.:09:03.

rights for gay people. You need to get back on the storm on to make

:09:04.:09:06.

sure that's not the case. We want to do that. I don't believe you when

:09:07.:09:11.

you say that. Our mandate on Thursday night was a strong mandate

:09:12.:09:18.

and we do believe not only that you're about to collapse the

:09:19.:09:20.

institutions of Stormont because they were not delivering the

:09:21.:09:23.

Government people want... So you want to get back into Stormont? I

:09:24.:09:28.

said that at the start of the programme. You need to compromise to

:09:29.:09:34.

do that, and need to get rid of your Irish language thing, and Arlene

:09:35.:09:38.

Foster being... The British gunmen signed on it and backed out of it.

:09:39.:09:45.

Tomorrow morning we start dialogue. There are challenges for the DUP as

:09:46.:09:50.

well. Broadly speaking, the Unionist opinion would welcome positive

:09:51.:09:55.

influence from the prounion point of view in international Government, no

:09:56.:09:58.

doubt about that but the difficulty in the balance the DUP have to find

:09:59.:10:04.

is that how they balance it against more unpopular Tory Conservative

:10:05.:10:08.

policies. When the Ulster Unionist Party had a link with the

:10:09.:10:13.

Conservative Party in 2010, we were pilloried, absolutely verbally

:10:14.:10:21.

abused, even by the DUP. Particularly by the DUP who called

:10:22.:10:26.

us Tory boys. That was a completely different situation before the

:10:27.:10:31.

election. That was a proper pact. Yes, there are good sides to be in

:10:32.:10:35.

in Government with good news you can deliver on and there is a downside.

:10:36.:10:43.

In a changing situation, about Brexit, and the economy, it gives us

:10:44.:10:47.

a downturn leading to unemployment or further measures posterity, the

:10:48.:10:54.

DUP cannot escape. Some compliance. This is why this could be unstable.

:10:55.:11:01.

And why DUP could pull the plug on it in the future. That's why it's

:11:02.:11:10.

important it's not just the deal we see in due course, but what happens

:11:11.:11:17.

under the table. It may not be benign and responsible. There will

:11:18.:11:21.

be all sorts of understandings reached, side deals. It untenable

:11:22.:11:33.

without her full transparency. -- we don't have full transparency.

:11:34.:11:39.

Posterity has cost us ?1 billion cash. -- austerity. If you would

:11:40.:11:49.

have to work if they deliver the money. We would oppose austerity.

:11:50.:11:56.

The DUP may be the party which owns austerity. They are opposed to the

:11:57.:12:02.

ending of the triple lock as far as pensions are concerned, the end of

:12:03.:12:05.

the pensioner went to payment. Let's see what success the Conservative

:12:06.:12:12.

Party have. Can I ask you a question? If we had a budget, we

:12:13.:12:16.

wouldn't be in this difficult situation. In terms of this

:12:17.:12:26.

unravelling, I think that the irony is that you have the DUP during

:12:27.:12:30.

gauging in this understanding because they want to give stability

:12:31.:12:34.

to the union and its being rejected by parties across the union, the UK,

:12:35.:12:39.

the Tory party as I think that's the irony. Just to remind people in case

:12:40.:12:44.

they're just tuning in, the DUP has chosen not to be here to make its

:12:45.:12:49.

case. Less than 50% for the first time ever and the majority against

:12:50.:12:55.

Brexit, which would impose... You can't say the DUP didn't have a good

:12:56.:13:00.

election. The three people at the far end of the table had a pretty

:13:01.:13:05.

bad slap in the face. You have no chance of a border. Lets not talk

:13:06.:13:11.

about that at the moment. Where do you go in terms of losing your three

:13:12.:13:15.

seats? It was a bad night for the SDLP. Can you pick the pieces up?

:13:16.:13:22.

Yes, it was a very bad result and a devastating blow considering the

:13:23.:13:25.

calibre of the people we lost. Not just for their constituency but for

:13:26.:13:29.

wider politics. We've been very clear. We need to hold a mirror up

:13:30.:13:35.

to ourselves. The dynamic of politics on these islands is

:13:36.:13:37.

changing and we need to have an honest conversation about that.

:13:38.:13:41.

We're having a period of reflection and I won't shy away from trying to

:13:42.:13:46.

look at things in a new way. Just to remind people about those figures,

:13:47.:13:49.

let's take a look at the graphics which show how the results actually

:13:50.:13:54.

ended up on Thursday night or the early hours of Friday morning. You

:13:55.:14:10.

consider turn out there, 65.5%. That is the overall figure for sublets

:14:11.:14:13.

look at the share of the vote and this is very revealing. The DUP with

:14:14.:14:20.

over a third of the vote, almost 30% for Sinn Fein. The SDLP on nearly

:14:21.:14:26.

12%. 10% for the Ulster Unionists. Here is the critical point, the

:14:27.:14:33.

change from two years ago, 2015, the DUP up 10%, Sinn Fein, 5%, and the

:14:34.:14:45.

rest are down. You can see there that the turnout was 7%. Danny,

:14:46.:14:52.

those figures are not good as far as the Ulster Unionist Party is

:14:53.:14:55.

concerned. No, but we understand the context in which this general

:14:56.:14:58.

election has been fought. Clearly, there was a reaction from

:14:59.:15:02.

grass-roots unionism to the rise of Sinn Fein through the assembly

:15:03.:15:07.

election to the more aggressive nature of the political leadership

:15:08.:15:13.

of Sinn Fein and the prounion people, largely decided, the best

:15:14.:15:17.

message they could get was to support the DUP in this election. It

:15:18.:15:23.

doesn't mean... The stronger of the two parties, the one who could

:15:24.:15:28.

deliver. Not necessarily. We need to re-establish and make sure that the

:15:29.:15:34.

prounion electorate have the confidence in the Ulster Unionist

:15:35.:15:37.

Party to deliver on one or two key issues and to remain strong. Which

:15:38.:15:45.

we are. Obviously we didn't gain any seats, but our vote has more or less

:15:46.:15:51.

held. It went down. A fraction of voter share but... The boats are

:15:52.:16:01.

still there. We are there, standing, viable alternative. We are merging

:16:02.:16:07.

towards a strong unionist and nationalist voice. Our vote has held

:16:08.:16:14.

and we are seen increasingly as that vehicle. OK, we've asked a lot of

:16:15.:16:19.

questions today. I'm not sure how many satisfactory answers we have

:16:20.:16:24.

provided. It will be an interesting couple of months ahead.

:16:25.:16:29.

Now, there will be a big focus on Westminster this week as we see

:16:30.:16:33.

what those efforts to put a government together look

:16:34.:16:35.

like and it's being reported today that Arlene Foster is due to travel

:16:36.:16:38.

to Downing Street on Tuesday to meet Theresa May.

:16:39.:16:40.

Our Political Correspondent, Stephen Walker, is there.

:16:41.:16:43.

Stephen, just talk is through first of all last night confusion about

:16:44.:16:50.

the deal or no deal. Yes, it was very confusing. It was a bit like an

:16:51.:16:55.

episode of the thick of it. It was a bitter shambles. At 7:30pm there was

:16:56.:17:02.

a statement from Downing Street but basically said the principles of the

:17:03.:17:05.

deal had been agreed, and the DUP had agreed in principle to do this

:17:06.:17:10.

deal with the Conservatives effectively to keep them in power.

:17:11.:17:14.

There was radio silence from the DUP until midnight when they then issued

:17:15.:17:18.

a statement, not confirming in a statement did it been done but what

:17:19.:17:22.

they did confirm was discussions were ongoing. Half an hour after

:17:23.:17:26.

that, Downing Street issued another statement to basically say that

:17:27.:17:30.

discussions were ongoing and the deal hasn't quite been done, so

:17:31.:17:34.

there was a lot of confusion around last night. What appears to have

:17:35.:17:38.

happened is an official from Downing Street released a statement in

:17:39.:17:42.

error, a mistake, because of the confusion but today the position is

:17:43.:17:46.

that those discussions are continuing. Arlene Foster is due in

:17:47.:17:50.

Downing Street on Tuesday and the hopes of both sides I guess that

:17:51.:17:55.

this deal can be done. We've got the prospect of a deal between the

:17:56.:17:58.

Conservatives and the DUP but a lot of people across the water clearly

:17:59.:18:02.

seem to be puzzled about what precisely the DUP represents. That's

:18:03.:18:06.

right, the DUP must be the most research but your party on the

:18:07.:18:10.

planet of the moment. Lots of newspaper articles, broadcasts about

:18:11.:18:13.

the party, people want to know who the party are, what they stand for,

:18:14.:18:17.

a lot of research going in so using lots of mentions of things about the

:18:18.:18:22.

party 's stance on abortion, gay rights and creationism and all those

:18:23.:18:26.

kinds of articles but the DUP are keen to stress can actually people

:18:27.:18:29.

should member we've been in power-sharing in Northern Ireland,

:18:30.:18:33.

with Sinn Fein, we have run Government departments so that the

:18:34.:18:38.

message the DUP are trying to get out. Amongst Conservatives, who are

:18:39.:18:42.

preparing to go into power, with the DUP, I suppose there are mixed

:18:43.:18:45.

responses, those that know them well seem quite relaxed. There are good

:18:46.:18:49.

relationships between the DUP and the Conservatives, and somewhere

:18:50.:18:54.

people are nervous, concerned about their position on those social

:18:55.:18:57.

issues but then the Conservatives have to come to this question, if

:18:58.:19:01.

they want to remain in power, then they have to do a deal with the DUP.

:19:02.:19:07.

What about Theresa May herself? The Tory grandees taking to the airwaves

:19:08.:19:14.

seem to be at best qualified support. Some amazing stuff this

:19:15.:19:18.

morning. George Osbourne of course, no lover of Theresa May's politics

:19:19.:19:22.

and the way she handled the campaign, has described her as a

:19:23.:19:26.

dead woman walking. Lord Heseltine, Tory grandees, said he does not

:19:27.:19:30.

think she will fight another election. And Nicky Morgan, of

:19:31.:19:34.

course was a cabinet minister, she is basically saying that she think

:19:35.:19:39.

there will be a Tory leadership battle over the summer. There is an

:19:40.:19:42.

awful lot of under his command of a lot of pressure on Theresa May. She

:19:43.:19:45.

may be in Downing Street, but there is an awful lot of questions being

:19:46.:19:49.

asked about the way she handled the election, and a lot of questions

:19:50.:19:54.

being asked about whether or not she will be Prime Minister in six months

:19:55.:19:58.

or 12 months. Stephen, just briefly, what are the key things you need to

:19:59.:20:01.

look out for in the week ahead? Tuesday will be a key date. The DUP

:20:02.:20:05.

will come your revolver ten MPs and there will be lots of photographs on

:20:06.:20:11.

College Green. That is the day that Arlene Foster will meet Theresa May.

:20:12.:20:15.

We anticipate a photograph in and around Downing Street. If this deal

:20:16.:20:18.

is done, is as being talked about, the first big test will be tomorrow

:20:19.:20:23.

week. That is the Queen's speech. If they are doing is confidence and

:20:24.:20:27.

supply arrangement, the DUP would be expected to back the Queen's speech

:20:28.:20:31.

on that day. That would be the first big test for the DUP. We leave it

:20:32.:20:36.

there. Thank you very much indeed, Stephen Walker in Westminster.

:20:37.:20:38.

And joining me now with their perspective on events

:20:39.:20:40.

are Allison Morris and Newton Emerson.

:20:41.:20:42.

Newton, it is hard to keep up, where are we? Gerry Adams has very

:20:43.:20:49.

noticeably toned down the rhetoric over the weekend on the Tory, DUP

:20:50.:20:53.

relationship and a border poll. I think everybody else should calm

:20:54.:20:58.

down as well. The DUP, yes, is very ambitious for its Westminster deal

:20:59.:21:01.

but it is also still absolutely desperate to get back to Stormont.

:21:02.:21:06.

It recognises the danger there, the conflict of antagonising the

:21:07.:21:08.

Nationalist electorate. It does not mean it will be able to resist it,

:21:09.:21:13.

but it is clearly intending to stay with and social issues and focus on

:21:14.:21:17.

getting Northern Ireland a bag of cash and goodies, particularly on

:21:18.:21:21.

welfare reform and mitigating welfare reform, but I think makes it

:21:22.:21:23.

more likely that Stormont will return. I think it is less likely

:21:24.:21:27.

that Stormont will return as a result. Sinn Fein build-out of

:21:28.:21:32.

Stormont and electorate have backed them on that. Their vote is

:21:33.:21:35.

increasing again. The people who vote for Sinn Fein vote for them to

:21:36.:21:40.

be abstention is. Martin O'Neill sitting in that seat was very clear

:21:41.:21:45.

that Sinn Fein wanted to Stormont as soon as possible. They have said

:21:46.:21:48.

repeatedly that will be no return of the status quo which means the red

:21:49.:21:51.

lines are not movable. They will not go back of because everything they

:21:52.:21:54.

want which the DUP will not give them and the DUP has very strong

:21:55.:21:59.

position, given the fact they be in some kind of partnership coalition

:22:00.:22:02.

in Westminster. I do not think they are going to be in any mood to

:22:03.:22:05.

compromise with Sinn Fein. A lot of it does depend, Allison is correct,

:22:06.:22:10.

about how the DUP manages to rein in its arrogance but listen to what

:22:11.:22:13.

Gerry Adams said. Two months ago, Sinn Fein was grinning that it DUP

:22:14.:22:18.

Ivan tore relationship would destroy the peace process. This weekend,

:22:19.:22:21.

they're laughing it off as a flash and a plan that will end in tears.

:22:22.:22:25.

They may or may not be right but they are turning that a on. What

:22:26.:22:30.

actually happens, do you think, that Stormont tomorrow? We heard Nicola

:22:31.:22:33.

very clear on what you had to say. There needs to be somebody

:22:34.:22:35.

independent to chair the talks process, because no longer can the

:22:36.:22:39.

British secretary of state be seen as an independent arbiter. Now, I

:22:40.:22:45.

mean, a lot of people would have thought that was never the case, but

:22:46.:22:48.

she seemed to be saying that the basic requirement? The chair does

:22:49.:22:52.

not make the deal but again they see where they're coming from. At this

:22:53.:22:55.

point in time, the Conservative Government are indebted to the DUP.

:22:56.:22:59.

They need them to survive and stay afloat, so how can that Tory

:23:00.:23:04.

Secretary of State be considered in any way independent? They could go

:23:05.:23:07.

and bring somebody from America or rather like the in the past but

:23:08.:23:10.

little thing that will help them get over the line. I do not think there

:23:11.:23:14.

be any return to Stormont this side of summer. I will be surprised at

:23:15.:23:16.

this up and running again by December. You both make two very

:23:17.:23:20.

plausible arguments, you cannot both be right. The 20 will be discussed

:23:21.:23:24.

before the election was a Stormont deal by the Ottoman. That timetable

:23:25.:23:29.

might slip roads lately stop it depends on how long this

:23:30.:23:31.

conservative arrangement looks likely to last. The main problem was

:23:32.:23:36.

reappointing a chair, and Allison is right again, the timing of this

:23:37.:23:40.

doesn't really matter. It would be an effective admission that the

:23:41.:23:42.

British government is not an admission and I do not think that

:23:43.:23:46.

admission needs to be made, because the DUP will be not be in the

:23:47.:23:48.

British government. The counterargument to that would be to

:23:49.:23:53.

say that we are now saying that no Northern Ireland party can

:23:54.:23:55.

participate in any way on Westminster or Doyle voting. Charlie

:23:56.:24:00.

Flanagan making it very clear that there needs to be an honest broker

:24:01.:24:04.

in charge. The integrity and objectivity of both governments are

:24:05.:24:07.

critical. Not surprising that he should say that. Does that help move

:24:08.:24:12.

the process forward or draw up yet another obstacle? They're all going

:24:13.:24:16.

to be there tomorrow. I do not think anybody everything will happen

:24:17.:24:20.

tomorrow. We do not have a Secretary of State. There is no cheer at this

:24:21.:24:24.

point of time. There is no budget as well, so the run-up be some kind of

:24:25.:24:27.

partial direct role in that it will need to be administered by

:24:28.:24:31.

Westminster before July because I not be Stormont before them. It is

:24:32.:24:36.

hard to get out of that as well, so I think that we are heading. What is

:24:37.:24:40.

the future for Theresa May? Speed of it will be difficult for the Tories

:24:41.:24:43.

to get because we have come to believe in this country that a Prime

:24:44.:24:49.

Minister made the personal mandate, which is against Parliamentary

:24:50.:24:51.

representative democracy and its principles but we expect that

:24:52.:24:55.

anyway. An unelected head of a minority government would really

:24:56.:24:58.

struggle to have legitimacy. The Tories cannot risk trickling

:24:59.:25:02.

accidentally an election or undermining their authority to that

:25:03.:25:05.

point. Not in the foreseeable future, while curbing good win an

:25:06.:25:10.

election. There are stuck. There is great unrest within the party. They

:25:11.:25:14.

would like to ask but at this point in time, it could trigger an

:25:15.:25:18.

election and going by the way the figures are, Corbin would win the

:25:19.:25:22.

next one. That is the worst-case scenario, another election. I do not

:25:23.:25:26.

think any others than the another election in the studio, not for a

:25:27.:25:30.

while anyway! Thank you both very much indeed.

:25:31.:25:32.

it seems Thursday night and Friday morning were a long time ago -

:25:33.:25:37.

but what unfolded then has set up

:25:38.:25:39.

the most remarkable of political stories.

:25:40.:25:40.

Our coverage of the story will continue on TV,

:25:41.:25:42.

radio and digital throughout the week,

:25:43.:25:44.

and I'll see you on The View on BBC One on Thursday.

:25:45.:25:47.

Until then, from everyone in the team, goodbye.

:25:48.:26:08.

To the DUP candidate... But I have one. Northern Ireland's answer to

:26:09.:26:26.

Jeremy Paxman. It's interesting. Unionism has awakened. I think when

:26:27.:26:35.

you win you find out a lot about other people and when you lose you

:26:36.:26:38.

find out a lot about yourself. Keep counting the votes!

:26:39.:26:54.

We are certainly witnessing history. Thinking about how people are taking

:26:55.:27:09.

the sort of result. And Martin, we did this for you.

:27:10.:27:27.

But I am not going to keep you too much longer, because there is

:27:28.:27:31.

parking to be done!

:27:32.:27:32.

Andrew Neil and Mark Carruthers are joined by Dominic Raab, Jon Ashworth, Anna Soubry and Graham Brady.

Journalists Steve Richards, Julia Hartley-Brewer and Tom Newton Dunn are on the political panel.


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