Browse content similar to 14/10/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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In Northern Ireland, the Health Minister on regulation of the first | :01:30. | :01:40. | |
:01:40. | :01:40. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2167 seconds | :01:40. | :37:47. | |
abortion clinic and improving Hello and welcome to the Sunday | :37:47. | :37:51. | |
Politics in Northern Ireland. The arguments for and against abortion | :37:51. | :37:54. | |
have been well rehearsed this week after the charity Marie Stopes | :37:54. | :37:59. | |
announced it was opening its first clinic here. Among the issues - | :37:59. | :38:03. | |
what critics say is a grey area around the regulation of the clinic. | :38:04. | :38:07. | |
We'll hear from the Health Minister on his plans to monitor its work | :38:07. | :38:10. | |
and investment in jobs for graduate teachers to improve our children's | :38:10. | :38:18. | |
reading, writing and maths skills. We will insure they can regulate | :38:18. | :38:28. | |
:38:28. | :38:29. | ||
over the course of the next few months. It is a great opportunity | :38:29. | :38:35. | |
because you get to understand how you can improve them and get on in | :38:35. | :38:39. | |
your career. Joining me to discuss all of this is solicitor Tony Cahir | :38:39. | :38:46. | |
and journalist Suzanne Breen. The arrival of Northern Ireland's | :38:46. | :38:50. | |
first abortion clinic has polarised opinion here. Marie Stopes Clinic | :38:50. | :38:54. | |
will open in Belfast on Thursday. Aside from the moral issues, | :38:54. | :38:57. | |
questions are being asked about the monitoring of this clinic by | :38:57. | :39:05. | |
authorities. I spoke to the health minister in his Lisburn office. I | :39:05. | :39:10. | |
began by asking him when he first heard about the clinic. I was | :39:10. | :39:14. | |
notified some months ago that they had an interest in developing a | :39:15. | :39:21. | |
clinic in Northern Ireland. What was your reaction? Well, in terms | :39:21. | :39:26. | |
of abortion, it doesn't make a difference in that they will have | :39:26. | :39:31. | |
to operate in the same rules as abortion is carried out by the NHS. | :39:31. | :39:37. | |
And Northern Ireland has strict rules and guidelines than the rest | :39:37. | :39:46. | |
of the UK and that applies to Marie Stopes. And yet despite having no | :39:46. | :39:53. | |
that notice, you did not make sure there was regulation. We'll have it | :39:53. | :39:58. | |
confirmed in the near future. If it isn't the case we can't regulate | :39:58. | :40:03. | |
and the present regulations and guidance but is there, there will | :40:03. | :40:08. | |
be amended quickly. Otherwise, the police can regulate under the | :40:08. | :40:12. | |
criminal law and that will be subjected to prosecutions. You are | :40:12. | :40:17. | |
prepared to regulate if necessary? It has to be regulated but it will | :40:17. | :40:21. | |
be regulated one way or the other three police or ourselves, it will | :40:21. | :40:27. | |
be regulated. The Department of Health would rather be the | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
organisation that is doing the regulation and who will confirm | :40:31. | :40:34. | |
soon whether that is going to be the case immediately or whether it | :40:34. | :40:40. | |
would take a little longer time to put procedures in place. Are you | :40:41. | :40:45. | |
taking legal advice on the regulation? Yes, and we want to | :40:45. | :40:50. | |
make absolutely certain that the regulation would take place under | :40:50. | :40:56. | |
the existing laws and if their needs to be an amendment to the | :40:56. | :41:02. | |
regulations from the laws will and acted quickly. Are you saying they | :41:02. | :41:07. | |
will regulate? If they can't regulate, we will ensure they will | :41:07. | :41:11. | |
be in a position to regulate over the course of the next few months. | :41:11. | :41:16. | |
And there are no issues around getting executive colleagues on | :41:16. | :41:21. | |
board? I would bring it before the committee but whether you are for | :41:21. | :41:26. | |
or against abortion and makes no difference. The clinics should be | :41:26. | :41:30. | |
regulated. Dentists are regulated so well to have regulation for the | :41:30. | :41:36. | |
extraction of a tooth but not for the extraction of a baby. What is | :41:36. | :41:41. | |
regulation mean for Marie Stopes? Marie Stopes will have to keep | :41:41. | :41:46. | |
adequate records of what they do and particularly if they have | :41:46. | :41:51. | |
offered abortion services to people in Northern Ireland. Those will be | :41:51. | :41:58. | |
clarified by police or the body and if they had stepped outside they | :41:58. | :42:04. | |
would face criminal law proceedings. I would expect they will do exactly | :42:04. | :42:07. | |
the same as anybody in health service would do, the only | :42:07. | :42:10. | |
difference is the individual would pay for it but the health service | :42:11. | :42:15. | |
will be free. Your party says they do not want a change in the current | :42:15. | :42:21. | |
law, do you personally agree with the way the law stands? Well, I | :42:21. | :42:24. | |
look at where we are in Northern Ireland and recognise people have | :42:24. | :42:30. | |
had abortions and I have not heard of women are losing their life as a | :42:30. | :42:36. | |
consequence of the law in Northern Ireland. I am not aware the mental | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
health of the woman has been detrimentally impact. Where is the | :42:40. | :42:43. | |
driver for change? You say in Northern Ireland is a shining | :42:44. | :42:49. | |
beacon and example but other people say it is hypocrisy because women | :42:49. | :42:54. | |
are travelling to England to a double string abortion figures. | :42:54. | :42:59. | |
would hope the discussions taking place both in England, Wales and | :42:59. | :43:05. | |
Scotland are about reducing the availability of abortion and | :43:05. | :43:09. | |
clearly they recognise they went too far. Jeremy Hunt has recognised | :43:09. | :43:16. | |
that, the Prime Minister says the timescale is wrong. So, right | :43:16. | :43:22. | |
across the UK other people are recognising the 1967 abortion Act | :43:22. | :43:27. | |
has failed, it has fared miserably and we are quite right to resist | :43:27. | :43:33. | |
this in Northern Ireland. Are you in favour personally of abortion? | :43:33. | :43:41. | |
support abortion where the mother's life is at risk. And if there are | :43:41. | :43:43. | |
mental health issues and some on his Pemberley harmed as a | :43:43. | :43:49. | |
consequence of it. What about foetal abnormalities? Having had a | :43:49. | :43:56. | |
brother who has learning difficulties, I appreciate and love | :43:56. | :44:01. | |
people who have disabilities. Learning disabilities or physical | :44:01. | :44:06. | |
disabilities. I was brought up in a home where you got a special amount | :44:06. | :44:10. | |
of love from someone who had a learning disability and I detest | :44:10. | :44:15. | |
the facts but because someone has Down's syndrome or some abnormality | :44:15. | :44:19. | |
detected in the womb that the valuable life is of no value. It is | :44:19. | :44:25. | |
wholly wrong and that sort of selection of mankind and human | :44:25. | :44:31. | |
beings is something that we would what -- would do well to avoid. | :44:31. | :44:34. | |
say it doesn't happen in Northern Ireland but are you sure of your | :44:34. | :44:43. | |
facts? What? For example, when a foetal abnormalities? There may be | :44:43. | :44:48. | |
circumstances where a child cannot live outside of the womb. We have | :44:48. | :44:53. | |
to leave those things to clinicians who are well placed to act within | :44:53. | :44:57. | |
legislation. Isn't it time that women have the right to choose in | :44:57. | :45:05. | |
Northern Ireland? Choice is absolutely important. I indicated | :45:05. | :45:10. | |
many thousands are alive as a result of the abortion Act not | :45:11. | :45:16. | |
being around. I expect half those are women and those women have an | :45:17. | :45:24. | |
entitlement to live and that is the best position we could have. | :45:24. | :45:29. | |
Tony Cahir and Susannah Breen a with me. You heard what the | :45:29. | :45:37. | |
minister had to say. Would you think, with the regulator? It is | :45:37. | :45:43. | |
likely. They are fairly adamant they are not going to regulate, | :45:43. | :45:52. | |
they released a statement. They say they were not be regulating in | :45:52. | :45:55. | |
there prison situation but the Department of Health has obligation | :45:55. | :45:59. | |
to ensure but this medical treatment, the after-care, is | :45:59. | :46:06. | |
properly regulated so in addition to that the guidance that's | :46:06. | :46:08. | |
available to medical practitioners and health professionals and the | :46:08. | :46:12. | |
current regime are available to those who practise in the Marie | :46:13. | :46:21. | |
Stopes organisation. Can a stoppage using the law? I have heard people | :46:21. | :46:24. | |
threatening to take judicial reviews, I do not think there's any | :46:24. | :46:29. | |
apparent breach. A lot of work has gone into preparing the ground for | :46:30. | :46:33. | |
the Marie Stopes organisation. I do not think there's anything unlawful | :46:33. | :46:41. | |
about the current intentions. impact will it have in Belfast? | :46:41. | :46:46. | |
think the clinic is of symbolic impact because abortion it does | :46:46. | :46:50. | |
happen, Northern Ireland women have abortions and the trouble to | :46:50. | :46:58. | |
England to access the pills by Marie Stopes under certain criteria. | :46:58. | :47:02. | |
When are axing tablets on the internet so it is of symbolic | :47:02. | :47:05. | |
performance there will be a clinic in Belfast city centre but is | :47:06. | :47:11. | |
offering abortion services to women. The law is disgracefully ambiguous. | :47:11. | :47:18. | |
A do not think disgrace is the 1967 abortion Act, the disgrace is the | :47:18. | :47:23. | |
failure of our politicians here too probably address this issue. | :47:23. | :47:28. | |
politician's afraid of the issue? think they are under leads to all | :47:28. | :47:32. | |
sorts of problems, for example, the case were 14-year-old girl was | :47:32. | :47:35. | |
pregnant, in a children's home, she said she would commit suicide if | :47:35. | :47:40. | |
she was forced have a baby and she was beating her stomach in an | :47:40. | :47:45. | |
attempt to abort the baby. The case would court and the judge said she | :47:45. | :47:49. | |
could have abortion yet no medical practitioner was found in Northern | :47:49. | :47:53. | |
Ireland to actually give her an abortion and 14 you will travel to | :47:53. | :47:58. | |
Britain. These cases do happen but we don't hear about them. | :47:58. | :48:02. | |
important is it for politicians to ensure the law is clarified? | :48:02. | :48:07. | |
law is clear, what's essential is the guidance is made available to | :48:07. | :48:11. | |
all of those in the field, the decision as to whether a woman's | :48:11. | :48:15. | |
health will be adversely affected in a serious and long-term weight | :48:15. | :48:22. | |
is a subjective decision on the part of the commission. They need | :48:22. | :48:27. | |
guidance. Perhaps that has not been clear in the past. There is work to | :48:27. | :48:32. | |
be done. The Department promises guidance will be published, it is | :48:32. | :48:37. | |
an issue. But what is the widest possible interpretation of the law? | :48:37. | :48:42. | |
Well, the law is clear at the moment. You can only have an | :48:42. | :48:47. | |
abortion if the woman's life is in danger or she will suffer permanent | :48:47. | :48:55. | |
and serious ill-health. Some commentators say the law makes its | :48:55. | :48:59. | |
beleaguered to procure a miscarriage and there was being | :48:59. | :49:02. | |
prosecuted. No one has been prosecuted in Northern Ireland but | :49:02. | :49:09. | |
the law has changed considerably over the years since 1861, the 1945 | :49:09. | :49:14. | |
statute allowing for abortion in limited circumstances and is being | :49:14. | :49:18. | |
interpreted in various cases including once Suzanne talked about. | :49:18. | :49:24. | |
The law is Clare but the interpretation and guidance and | :49:24. | :49:29. | |
guidelines are still in a state of flux. Cezanne, is the first | :49:29. | :49:33. | |
abortion clinic on the island of Ireland, we see people crossing the | :49:33. | :49:41. | |
border? Some will choose to travel north rather than having to book | :49:41. | :49:46. | |
flights and go to Britain. However, it's not as simple as it looks. In | :49:46. | :49:51. | |
Britain, women are able to have consultation in a day and tablets | :49:51. | :49:54. | |
in the same day. In Northern Ireland they will have to stay | :49:54. | :49:59. | |
overnight, they will have a consultation and they were not be | :49:59. | :50:03. | |
given tablets until the next day. The law as it stands is more | :50:03. | :50:08. | |
liberal in Britain when for example they do not have to have | :50:08. | :50:13. | |
psychiatric to stick before having an abortion. Women here will and we | :50:13. | :50:18. | |
are talking about only nine weeks, the first nine weeks of pregnancy, | :50:18. | :50:21. | |
that's all that is offered to women seeking termination but in Britain | :50:21. | :50:26. | |
the law is up to 24 weeks. The situation is substantially more | :50:26. | :50:31. | |
liberal in Britain. Women with a foetal abnormality, that a | :50:31. | :50:36. | |
potentially would not be diagnosed until 20 weeks so the clinical be | :50:36. | :50:41. | |
of no use to them. Do you want a change in the law? I would like to | :50:41. | :50:51. | |
:50:51. | :50:52. | ||
see the 1967 abortion Act applied Funding has been given by Stormont | :50:52. | :50:55. | |
for newly qualified teachers to give tuition to children who are | :50:55. | :51:00. | |
experiencing problems with reading and math skills. It's one of a | :51:00. | :51:03. | |
number of projects just announced by the First and Deputy First | :51:03. | :51:09. | |
Minister. Here's what they had to say about the scheme. | :51:10. | :51:15. | |
It is precisely because we recognise the potential but with | :51:15. | :51:20. | |
indicated we are talking about a recently qualified teachers, people | :51:20. | :51:24. | |
looking for a career, it will be up to the part of education to bring | :51:24. | :51:27. | |
forward the mechanism but the schemes will have to be approved by | :51:27. | :51:32. | |
cars so it is an issue we have identified as being required for | :51:32. | :51:35. | |
Stowe while we are talking about the jobs it creates, let's be clear | :51:35. | :51:40. | |
about was the key issue. What we are attempting to do is get behind | :51:40. | :51:47. | |
and give people a start in life. Let's be clear this is about 230 | :51:47. | :51:53. | |
effectively new jobs and it's about bringing newly graduated teachers | :51:53. | :51:59. | |
to work stream. I think it will be hugely welcome by the unions, the | :51:59. | :52:04. | |
schools he will benefit, the People's and the families and | :52:04. | :52:08. | |
business community who recognise this is a fairly innovative | :52:08. | :52:15. | |
approach, an approach we need to continue to explore. We've spoken | :52:15. | :52:20. | |
with student teachers at St Mary's college in Belfast. We study | :52:20. | :52:26. | |
regularly and learning ideas. It's a great opportunity to practise. | :52:26. | :52:32. | |
It's a great opportunity. You get to understand how you can improve | :52:32. | :52:39. | |
and you can take it on in your career. St Mary's students are well | :52:39. | :52:44. | |
equipped to teach numeracy and maths. It has set us up for the | :52:44. | :52:54. | |
:52:54. | :52:54. | ||
task. We are delighted and think we can raise the bar. How badly is the | :52:54. | :52:58. | |
investment needed? The Investment is to be welcomed but it's a drop | :52:58. | :53:01. | |
in the ocean given the problems in numeracy and literacy in Northern | :53:01. | :53:07. | |
Ireland is experiencing. In terms of creating jobs, we have to | :53:07. | :53:11. | |
remember there are 4,000 young teachers here who can't find work. | :53:11. | :53:15. | |
It is to be welcomed but it's a drop in the ocean and I can't see | :53:15. | :53:19. | |
it making a substantial difference. If we're talking about improving | :53:19. | :53:23. | |
people's job opportunities after the leave school, we have to | :53:23. | :53:28. | |
remember there are people unemployed who have degrees and | :53:28. | :53:33. | |
masters so improved literacy and numeracy is not automatically go to | :53:33. | :53:39. | |
mean a job. People with well qualifications are not go to work. | :53:39. | :53:46. | |
Do you come across problems in your everyday work? I am afraid I do. | :53:46. | :53:53. | |
Bad grammar is reflected in a lack of literacy skills all the time in | :53:53. | :54:01. | |
that Larne. Really, the application of law is to make sure people can | :54:01. | :54:05. | |
persuade and dreadful grammar and an inability to express themselves | :54:05. | :54:08. | |
and inability to put forward an argument then that means that | :54:08. | :54:12. | |
person is not particularly persuasive. It is important that | :54:12. | :54:18. | |
people can show competence in all areas of life. Competence in | :54:18. | :54:23. | |
numeracy and literacy is extremely important and this has to be | :54:23. | :54:26. | |
welcomed across-the-board, not just from the point of view of providing | :54:26. | :54:32. | |
jobs but to ensure standards are improved in Northern Ireland. | :54:32. | :54:36. | |
hard to believe someone can go through years of education as they | :54:36. | :54:40. | |
struggle with basic reading and writing. Yes, it is a damning | :54:40. | :54:44. | |
indictment of the education system but we have to look at cultural | :54:44. | :54:48. | |
attitudes in some areas. I think that unfortunately some children | :54:48. | :54:51. | |
are brought up in homes were parents regard good parenting as | :54:51. | :54:57. | |
may be being on spending thousands for First Communion and Christmas | :54:57. | :55:02. | |
and birthday as opposed to focusing on their children's education. | :55:02. | :55:06. | |
What's important is the environment that child returns to when they | :55:06. | :55:11. | |
come home. A lot of work has to be done in terms of improving that and | :55:11. | :55:16. | |
improving our cultural attitudes. It is also a role for parents. | :55:16. | :55:23. | |
Perhaps more important parents and take that. Many years it, though | :55:23. | :55:27. | |
books lying around everywhere and parents ensured there were books | :55:28. | :55:32. | |
for children. It is dying out and it's to be regretted. Our teachers | :55:32. | :55:37. | |
spending too much time on transfer and not on the basics? On the | :55:37. | :55:42. | |
transfer test? No, I am in favour of the 11 plus, I do nothing that's | :55:42. | :55:47. | |
the case. They are -- they Rushall falls in the system that have not | :55:47. | :55:55. | |
been addressed. Parents and families really need to look at | :55:55. | :56:00. | |
what the child is doing, they need to liaise with the school and what | :56:00. | :56:04. | |
happens at home is important. Children have to be encouraged to | :56:04. | :56:09. | |
read and be pushed by their parents and to be motivated as opposed to | :56:09. | :56:15. | |
parents putting money for birthdays and First communions, tens of | :56:15. | :56:18. | |
thousands of pounds spent on children rather than simple things | :56:18. | :56:23. | |
like sitting down at teaching a child and reading with your child | :56:23. | :56:28. | |
and educating a child a home. What happens after 3pm in the home is as | :56:28. | :56:32. | |
important if not more so as what happens in school. Some people | :56:32. | :56:39. | |
might see it as a contribution and they are closing libraries. -- | :56:39. | :56:46. | |
contradictions. It is regrettable libraries are closing, it seems to | :56:46. | :56:50. | |
me the services have been improved, is disgraceful libraries are being | :56:50. | :56:54. | |
closed and I would hope this is a first step on the part of the | :56:54. | :57:01. | |
executive to realise we must ensure that those skills are improved and | :57:01. | :57:04. | |
opening libraries is one feature. Welfare reform, banking | :57:04. | :57:07. | |
compensation and loose marbles. Just some of the goings on in our | :57:07. | :57:17. | |
:57:17. | :57:21. | ||
look at the week's politics in The Chief Constable hit back over | :57:21. | :57:25. | |
an Audit Office report. The report doesn't use the word damning or | :57:25. | :57:30. | |
failure. The executive announced new jobs the teachers. Derry City | :57:30. | :57:34. | |
Council was asked if it can get a culture train back on track. | :57:34. | :57:39. | |
have talent, resources and expertise. More importantly we have | :57:39. | :57:47. | |
a city that can deliver. Ulster chiefs faced MLAs. The incident was | :57:47. | :57:55. | |
a disaster. Alex fought for women's rights during the debate. Some of | :57:55. | :58:00. | |
my best friends are men but some are men are not good with money in | :58:00. | :58:05. | |
a pocket. The Bill passed its second stage. But all I've got to | :58:05. | :58:14. | |
say. And as part of World Mental Health Day, the MLAs fought to hold | :58:14. | :58:24. | |
:58:24. | :58:31. | ||
There were 10 hours' debate on the world far -- Welfare Reform Bill. | :58:31. | :58:35. | |
am not sure anybody would have wanted to spend more than half an | :58:35. | :58:38. | |
hour watching what went on in the chamber. The majority of people did | :58:38. | :58:42. | |
not do that but it's a welcome change they are discussing a | :58:42. | :58:47. | |
meaningful matters and that rather than taking up endless hours about | :58:47. | :58:52. | |
flags and such like which do not benefit the population here. It is | :58:52. | :58:57. | |
a welcome change. This is a controversial bill, it is tricky | :58:57. | :58:59. | |
for politicians because they haven't got a lot of room for | :58:59. | :59:04. | |
manoeuvre. They haven't. In some ways it is a talking shop in terms | :59:04. | :59:09. | |
of the debate. A lot of ordinary people will feel the politicians | :59:09. | :59:12. | |
are out of touch with ordinary people's lives and what people | :59:12. | :59:18. | |
would like to see, for example the money paid to advisers is | :59:18. | :59:22. | |
scandalous. People are struggling on minimum wage and less. They | :59:22. | :59:25. | |
would like to see that tackled ahead of the politicians | :59:25. | :59:30. | |
pontificating on welfare reform when they are living lives but is | :59:30. | :59:35. | |
beyond ordinary people's dreams. Peter Robinson gave a speech | :59:35. | :59:39. | |
talking about streamlining Stormont and reducing the number of MLAs. | :59:39. | :59:44. | |
And moving towards a political coalition. The voluntary coalition | :59:44. | :59:48. | |
I am not sure is very likely in the short term. A number of politicians | :59:48. | :59:53. | |
have spoken out against that. In terms of reducing the bureaucracy | :59:53. | :59:58. | |
and numbers of people involved in the executive, that would be | :59:58. | :00:02. | |
welcome across the board and that part of the speech was welcomed. | :00:02. | :00:06. | |
you see any gradual changes at Stormont in terms of a voluntary | :00:06. | :00:11. | |
coalition, Peter Robinson indicated changes in funding in opposition. | :00:11. | :00:15. | |
don't but it would be welcome. His hugely undemocratic there is no | :00:15. | :00:20. | |
opposition at Stormont. I would be in favour of a voluntary coalition, | :00:20. | :00:24. | |
a mandatory coalition goes against every principle of transparency and | :00:24. | :00:28. |