Browse content similar to 07/10/2012. Check below for episodes and series from the same categories and more!
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And coming up in Sunday Politics in Northern Ireland: | :01:26. | :01:29. | |
Have local politicians left it too late to rebel against planned | :01:29. | :01:32. | |
welfare changes? And does life experience count for anything any | :01:32. | :01:42. | |
:01:42. | :01:42. | ||
Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2124 seconds | :01:42. | :37:06. | |
Hello, and welcome to Sunday Politics in Northern Ireland. As | :37:06. | :37:08. | |
the Tories gather for their annual conference, their planned welfare | :37:08. | :37:11. | |
changes hit the headlines here with the DUP accusing Sinn Fein of | :37:11. | :37:17. | |
dropping a welfare bombshell. So, how far can local changes to the | :37:17. | :37:21. | |
proposed legislation go? Joining me to discuss this is the SDLP MP Mark | :37:21. | :37:25. | |
Durkan. Plus, the twenty-somethings taking some of the top jobs in | :37:26. | :37:30. | |
politics here. PR consultant Sheila Davidson and commentator Paul | :37:30. | :37:34. | |
McFadden will be joining me with their thoughts on all of that and | :37:34. | :37:42. | |
The Prime Minister has defended the government's plans for welfare | :37:42. | :37:45. | |
reform as deeply progressive and thoughtful. The controversial plans | :37:45. | :37:48. | |
will no doubt be on the agenda at the Conservative Party conference | :37:48. | :37:53. | |
which begins today in Birmingham. Locally, Sinn Fein has infuriated | :37:53. | :37:57. | |
the DUP by calling for this week's debate on welfare to be deferred. | :37:57. | :38:00. | |
We'll hear from Mark Durkan very shortly on what, if anything, can | :38:00. | :38:03. | |
be done at this late stage. But first, our Political Reporter | :38:03. | :38:12. | |
Stephen Walker joins me now live from Birmingham. | :38:12. | :38:15. | |
How much do you think Northern Ireland is likely to feature on the | :38:15. | :38:20. | |
agenda? I think it will be on the agenda, not just on the conference | :38:20. | :38:25. | |
floor, but in the meetings taking place in and around the conference. | :38:26. | :38:30. | |
Welfare reform very much so will be on the agenda. There of a series of | :38:30. | :38:38. | |
events happening. The new Secretary of State will be giving her speech | :38:38. | :38:43. | |
to the conference. On Wednesday, were the have David Cameron. There | :38:43. | :38:47. | |
are rather a whole series of French events touching on Northern Ireland. | :38:47. | :38:51. | |
On Tuesday, there is the now infamous Ulster fried breakfast | :38:51. | :38:56. | |
where politicians from across Northern Ireland come together. | :38:56. | :39:00. | |
Arriving tomorrow at the conference will be families and relatives who | :39:00. | :39:03. | |
have been campaigning for a number of years to have an inquiry into | :39:03. | :39:09. | |
the events of 1971 when 11 people were killed. They're calling on the | :39:09. | :39:12. | |
Prime Minister to meet them and they're calling for a full inquiry. | :39:12. | :39:15. | |
In an interview with the Prime Minister, I asked him if he would | :39:15. | :39:20. | |
meet the families. I would have to look at my calendar and have much | :39:20. | :39:24. | |
time I have to do all the different things. I understand the strength | :39:24. | :39:29. | |
of feeling. Buzz about so many cases from the deeply troubled and | :39:29. | :39:32. | |
difficult past of Northern Ireland. That is what the historical inquiry | :39:32. | :39:36. | |
teams are about. I will look carefully at that. I hope there | :39:36. | :39:40. | |
will be met on spoken with Andersen to Poplar, as we have done with all | :39:40. | :39:44. | |
these cases. How much pressure do you think | :39:44. | :39:48. | |
David Cameron will be under this week? I think there is quite a lot | :39:48. | :39:54. | |
of pressure on him this week. He is getting advice by the bucket load. | :39:54. | :39:58. | |
He has been pulled in a number of directions. Modernisers want him to | :39:58. | :40:01. | |
show that the Conservatives are passionate, they are not the party | :40:01. | :40:05. | |
of the rich and they actually care for people and they want to see new | :40:05. | :40:09. | |
measures to help economic matters. And then he is being pulled by the | :40:09. | :40:12. | |
traditionalists who want him to stand firm on issues like defence, | :40:12. | :40:16. | |
law and order in Europe. He is getting lots of advice. The other | :40:16. | :40:21. | |
thing he will be thinking about his last week, Ed Miliband had a very | :40:21. | :40:26. | |
successful conference. His speech was well received in the press. | :40:27. | :40:31. | |
Particularly in the Tory press. There is a lot of issues floating | :40:31. | :40:34. | |
around the David Cameron smiled at the moment as he is writing a | :40:34. | :40:38. | |
speech for Wednesday. You have had an opportunity to talk to the party | :40:38. | :40:43. | |
faithful yesterday and today. It is the mood among delegates? To be | :40:43. | :40:48. | |
fair, they have mixed emotions. Some people come here and see it as | :40:48. | :40:52. | |
a social event. It is there an opportunity to catch up with people | :40:52. | :40:57. | |
and get new ideas about the election and campaigning. Other | :40:57. | :41:01. | |
people are coming here perhaps with the sense of trepidation. The | :41:01. | :41:04. | |
Tories are behind in the opinion polls are they want to leave | :41:04. | :41:09. | |
conference on Wednesday galvanised and enthused. They want David | :41:09. | :41:13. | |
Cameron to me about this road map to explain where he wants to take | :41:13. | :41:16. | |
Britain over the next few years and they want to leave this conference | :41:16. | :41:23. | |
feeling enthused. Thank you very much. | :41:23. | :41:26. | |
Well, Sinn Fein has put the cat among the pigeons by calling for | :41:26. | :41:29. | |
this week's Assembly debate on the government's controversial Welfare | :41:29. | :41:31. | |
Reform Bill to be deferred until significant amendments are made to | :41:31. | :41:35. | |
it. The Bill is widely seen as the biggest change since the | :41:35. | :41:38. | |
introduction of the welfare state, and so far, the government in | :41:38. | :41:40. | |
Westminster has resisted all attempts to water it down, despite | :41:40. | :41:46. | |
opposition, not least from many MPs. And one of them is with me now. | :41:46. | :41:49. | |
Mark Durkan, can this Bill be improved by Sinn Fein's call for a | :41:49. | :41:57. | |
deferral? I am not sure about the issue of | :41:58. | :42:02. | |
the deferral as they are talking about it. They seem to be same | :42:02. | :42:06. | |
deferred the bill, let somebody else make changes and then that the | :42:06. | :42:09. | |
Assembly pass it. It seems to me to make this point that the Assembly | :42:09. | :42:12. | |
isn't actually acting as the legislative Chamber that it should | :42:12. | :42:18. | |
be acting as. It is Sinn Fein making the mistake. Leave | :42:18. | :42:20. | |
everything to ministers and the discussions between ministers and | :42:21. | :42:26. | |
Whitehall. The opportunity was there early this year when the SDLP | :42:26. | :42:29. | |
proposed that the Assembly should give the Bill pre-legislative | :42:29. | :42:36. | |
scrutiny. That might have actually influenced some of the been in | :42:36. | :42:40. | |
Westminster, as well. It is quite complicated for people to get their | :42:40. | :42:43. | |
heads around. There is the idea that MPs at Westminster are | :42:43. | :42:48. | |
grappling with the issue of on a UK-wide basis, but we have got our | :42:48. | :42:53. | |
local people trying to legislate. Is there a power struggle between | :42:53. | :42:57. | |
two chambers are tottering to have the final word? It is not a power | :42:57. | :43:02. | |
struggle. You can see how it looks like that. Absolutely. There is a | :43:02. | :43:05. | |
serious process difficulty here. The way to resolve that is to make | :43:05. | :43:09. | |
sure that the Assembly can have its input far earlier rather than | :43:09. | :43:12. | |
leaving the Assembly waiting to pick up the bill as passed by | :43:12. | :43:17. | |
Westminster and just go through this exercise that we can use | :43:17. | :43:21. | |
Durham accent, but we have to stick to the actual words that has been | :43:21. | :43:31. | |
:43:31. | :43:33. | ||
laid down by my tour is wrong. People wanted pre-legislative | :43:33. | :43:38. | |
scrutiny. We have to make sure that we can have as much influence as | :43:38. | :43:42. | |
possible. One of the reasons we wanted that was to make sure we got | :43:43. | :43:48. | |
more discretion. There is party and I do not pretend 21 that we can | :43:48. | :43:55. | |
likely Becker parity and nobody should. It could cost a fortune. | :43:55. | :44:01. | |
could. A lot of people's benefits to rest on that. If we become | :44:01. | :44:06. | |
slaves to parity at which do not give us the measures we need to | :44:06. | :44:11. | |
have, such as in housing, the hall implications of that tax. That is | :44:11. | :44:16. | |
wrong in any part of the UK. It becomes community and politically | :44:16. | :44:19. | |
sensitive in Northern Ireland. If you start telling people in certain | :44:19. | :44:22. | |
communities, you should not be in that House, you should move | :44:22. | :44:27. | |
elsewhere, you end up with demographic, Geographic sectarian | :44:27. | :44:30. | |
sensitivities are none of that. Whether it is in north Belfast or | :44:30. | :44:33. | |
other places. There are particular issues here that it be thought but | :44:33. | :44:37. | |
when it comes to whether run not these changes are wearable and | :44:37. | :44:41. | |
bearable for the Assembly. obviously the driver as far as the | :44:41. | :44:44. | |
Tories are concerned is to make sure that the taxpayer gets value- | :44:44. | :44:47. | |
for-money. That means the people most in need have the most | :44:47. | :44:50. | |
available resources available to them. If you have got a couple | :44:50. | :44:55. | |
living in a four-bedroomed House, it might cost as -- it might not be | :44:55. | :45:00. | |
the best use of public resources to support that. But the tax is a | :45:00. | :45:03. | |
crude way of dealing with that, particularly if the consequence of | :45:03. | :45:06. | |
that as well as telling social landlords in future, you will have | :45:06. | :45:10. | |
to design your supply of housing stock according to benefit rules | :45:10. | :45:13. | |
because there were people who cannot afford to take the housing | :45:13. | :45:18. | |
stock that is there. It is not valid for money either for the | :45:18. | :45:22. | |
taxpayer nor does it make sense for those who need those benefits. | :45:22. | :45:26. | |
is one example. There are lots of other issues we can talk about. | :45:26. | :45:29. | |
What you think happens when this issue is do you to be discussed | :45:29. | :45:32. | |
this week? I know why you would like us to be, but we're not there. | :45:32. | :45:37. | |
But we actually go? There are some issues around delivery where more | :45:37. | :45:43. | |
insurance need to be given. We met with Lord fight back in February | :45:43. | :45:47. | |
and he told us that there would be no problem to make sure that the | :45:47. | :45:51. | |
direct payment of housing benefit could go to landlords. They would | :45:51. | :45:56. | |
make sure that the computer system could accommodate Northern Ireland | :45:56. | :46:04. | |
doing it differently. But those aren't parity issues. There seems | :46:04. | :46:09. | |
to be a problem now. Of the Assembly had directly taking its | :46:09. | :46:13. | |
hands on those issues in the spring a we wanted it to, the assurances | :46:13. | :46:16. | |
that were given could actually have been nailed down publicly through | :46:16. | :46:20. | |
the Assembly. Instead, we now have a situation where Iain Duncan-Smith | :46:20. | :46:24. | |
could not assure me that the computer system he was taking | :46:24. | :46:28. | |
charge of, and he was saying he was taking charge of the computer | :46:28. | :46:31. | |
system, that it actually would be able to give that flexibility to | :46:31. | :46:35. | |
Northern Ireland. Those are serious issues at the Assembly in terms of | :46:35. | :46:39. | |
being able to get its own policies reflected still needs to get a hand | :46:39. | :46:44. | |
on. Of deferring decisions, I do not think they should defer debate, | :46:44. | :46:50. | |
but if deferring decisions to get more debate, if that means we can, | :46:50. | :46:55. | |
then we should. But Sinn Fein are too late in waking up to those | :46:55. | :47:05. | |
:47:05. | :47:06. | ||
issues. It does not bite individual politicians, it's about the people | :47:06. | :47:11. | |
who need the benefits. -- it is not about it. | :47:11. | :47:14. | |
With me now are the commentator Paul McFadden and the PR consultant | :47:14. | :47:20. | |
Sheila Davidson. Where do you think we are as far as | :47:20. | :47:22. | |
this is concerned? You could forgive people watching for | :47:22. | :47:32. | |
thinking it is a bit of fun and Holiness. -- a bit of a mess. | :47:32. | :47:36. | |
the very strong feeling that the big battle in relation to this was | :47:36. | :47:39. | |
fought out at Westminster this some time ago and all at the Assembly | :47:39. | :47:44. | |
cannot now do is tinker at the edges. It is important in the sense | :47:44. | :47:51. | |
that there are deportment -- important decisions. If it tinkers | :47:51. | :47:56. | |
too much, they could be penalties. Absolutely. In terms of benefits to | :47:56. | :48:01. | |
people, they could be problems. In terms of jobs will support servants, | :48:01. | :48:11. | |
there could be implications. It is a serious issue. -- civil servants. | :48:11. | :48:15. | |
They are deeply empathetic to people who could suffer as a effect | :48:15. | :48:19. | |
of these cuts. People will suffer from that. I think she believes | :48:19. | :48:24. | |
that essentially, the game is up. If the Assembly can sort out those | :48:24. | :48:27. | |
things that need to be resolved at the benches and finesse that and | :48:27. | :48:34. | |
sort that to people's satisfaction, but in terms of stopping the | :48:34. | :48:41. | |
process, I think that is impossible. She is a regular broadcaster on the | :48:41. | :48:45. | |
local radio. I do you stand on one of this? Can you pick your way | :48:45. | :48:51. | |
through it? I think what is very interesting is that Mark Durkan is | :48:51. | :48:55. | |
so eloquent in explaining best. Parliament is actually still | :48:55. | :48:59. | |
prevalent in this. I took the opportunity to take a look at the | :48:59. | :49:03. | |
act as it was going through and it is so open to interpretation on a | :49:03. | :49:07. | |
local level but in fact, the ability it for people on the ground | :49:07. | :49:11. | |
to to actually make this work properly for individuals here, is | :49:11. | :49:16. | |
actually quite why it in my reading of it. I think that the politics | :49:16. | :49:22. | |
around on of this is important and how it applies is important, but it | :49:22. | :49:26. | |
is how it is delivered on the ground that is most important. So | :49:26. | :49:31. | |
much is devolved down to ordinary people in benefits offices, | :49:31. | :49:34. | |
Jobcentres and how they do with people on a one-to-one basis. That | :49:34. | :49:38. | |
is what actually matters to ordinary people on the ground, not | :49:38. | :49:42. | |
what is happening in Parliament or the Assembly, which they do not | :49:42. | :49:46. | |
understand. But they understand is when the walking to a JobCentre, | :49:46. | :49:49. | |
how are they being dealt with and how was that being applied to them. | :49:49. | :49:53. | |
The resources it needs to be put into this is into proper training | :49:53. | :50:00. | |
and proper delivery to people on the ground. To what extent can the | :50:00. | :50:03. | |
politicians leave the party politics out of it and focus on the | :50:03. | :50:09. | |
issues that Sheila Davidson has just talked about? The fact is, it | :50:09. | :50:13. | |
does have to boil down to what does this matter to people? Does not to | :50:13. | :50:18. | |
get the credit, it is to get the benefit. What is this do? What the | :50:18. | :50:22. | |
changes make? Average age -- thereof a couple of positive | :50:22. | :50:27. | |
aspects. But there are other very difficult aspect. But the Assembly | :50:27. | :50:31. | |
needs to remember, when it is passing the legislation, is the way | :50:31. | :50:35. | |
in which that Bill passed Westminster was Eric open. A lot of | :50:35. | :50:39. | |
the things that were not detailed in the Bill were not left to local | :50:39. | :50:47. | |
discretion. They were left to be continuing regulation by ministers. | :50:47. | :50:51. | |
On a party issue, if the Assembly simple goes -- simply goes along | :50:51. | :50:57. | |
with this, if they have to change this without going back to | :50:57. | :51:01. | |
Parliament again, local ministers will say, you have to take that by | :51:01. | :51:05. | |
way of parity. The Assembly need to exercise its better chance to have | :51:05. | :51:12. | |
an influence on this. Unfortunately, that did not happen. | :51:12. | :51:15. | |
You may well have a view on this next report, because the age | :51:15. | :51:18. | |
profile of those walking the corridors of power here is getting | :51:18. | :51:22. | |
lower and lower. Stormont now has the youngest parliamentarian in the | :51:22. | :51:25. | |
UK or Ireland, Sinn Fein's Megan Fearon, who's 21. While the new | :51:25. | :51:28. | |
Lord Mayor of Belfast, Gavin Robinson, is a mere 27. Chris Page | :51:28. | :51:38. | |
:51:38. | :51:49. | ||
Politics here has had a drink from the fountain of youth. The young | :51:49. | :51:53. | |
people are taking some top jobs. Just a few months ago, a student | :51:53. | :51:57. | |
called Megan Fearon was sitting her finals here at Queen's University. | :51:57. | :52:03. | |
Since then, she has gone from studying politics to being a fully- | :52:03. | :52:07. | |
fledged politician. The is an obvious link between school | :52:07. | :52:12. | |
attendance and deprivation. At the age of 21, she has swapped lectures | :52:12. | :52:19. | |
for legislation. We definitely need more women and more young people in | :52:19. | :52:26. | |
politics. I could not be an advocate for that and not attempt | :52:26. | :52:36. | |
:52:36. | :52:37. | ||
to break the glass ceiling. Gavin Robinson, DUP's choice to | :52:37. | :52:41. | |
lead the council. He is 27. The Lord Mayor thinks jobs do not get | :52:41. | :52:46. | |
much better than his present one. You try to do your bit to help | :52:46. | :52:49. | |
people and it is a very satisfying part of my life where you do get to | :52:49. | :52:53. | |
engage with people. Being actively involved and trying to assist where | :52:53. | :52:59. | |
you can, provide solutions, it is very rewarding. But would more | :52:59. | :53:03. | |
senior people consider casting their vote for someone a lot | :53:03. | :53:06. | |
younger question at a thing for a young man in their late twenties, | :53:06. | :53:12. | |
he does not have enough experience in life. I think some are too young. | :53:12. | :53:17. | |
If they have the experience, they could do it. But I doubt it. | :53:17. | :53:23. | |
Megan Fearon Gavin Robinson think their voices are fallible. I do not | :53:23. | :53:26. | |
think Mike life experience is any less valid than anyone else's | :53:26. | :53:30. | |
because it is shorter. Everyone lives -- everyone looks different | :53:30. | :53:36. | |
lives. I may only be 27. They may not have been on the earth as long | :53:36. | :53:39. | |
as others, but I would like to think that my view is as important | :53:39. | :53:45. | |
and equal as someone else who might have more experience. They are | :53:45. | :53:48. | |
passionate about promoting young people's interest in the places of | :53:48. | :53:54. | |
power. Answer a mere lifetime in the political limelight late lay | :53:54. | :54:01. | |
Sheila and Paul are still with me. So, how do you feel about these | :54:01. | :54:03. | |
newbies making such a splash in the local political pond? | :54:03. | :54:08. | |
I am very enthusiastic about it. By the look the more young people get | :54:08. | :54:14. | |
involved in politics, the better. - - I think. I think the editor of | :54:14. | :54:16. | |
parachuting into a place in the Assembly is interesting. I would | :54:17. | :54:21. | |
like to see more young people going through local council and earning | :54:21. | :54:25. | |
Vespers before they jump straight into a legislative place. There is | :54:25. | :54:28. | |
absolutely a place for him, but I think there is a wider aspect here, | :54:28. | :54:32. | |
as well. That is the nature of the and people coming forward. I am | :54:32. | :54:38. | |
very supportive through my working of graduates coming forward, but I | :54:38. | :54:40. | |
actually think the political parties could be doing a lot more | :54:40. | :54:44. | |
to engage with young people that are not in a crutch what kind of | :54:44. | :54:50. | |
politically aware frame of mind and bring a very young people, the ones | :54:50. | :54:52. | |
that are creating more problems on the streets here, into politics and | :54:52. | :54:57. | |
given them an opportunity. There is a balance fundamentally to be | :54:57. | :55:01. | |
struck between youth and experience. It will be interesting to see. We | :55:02. | :55:05. | |
have had the example of a couple of very competent and people who are | :55:05. | :55:08. | |
fairly new to politics, but I wonder to what extent they will be | :55:08. | :55:13. | |
allowed to make their own stamp on politics here. We have seen in the | :55:13. | :55:21. | |
very recent past when one of the major parties was allowed to lead a | :55:21. | :55:27. | |
senior party... Whether these and people would be allowed to really | :55:27. | :55:30. | |
make them ask in politics, it will be interesting to see. It will be | :55:30. | :55:33. | |
interesting to see whether the profile we see received, whether | :55:33. | :55:37. | |
that will mean that more young people turn out and out and become | :55:37. | :55:41. | |
actively involved in politics. I would be a great success. | :55:41. | :55:45. | |
Let's pause for a moment to reflect on disunity in the UUP and yet more | :55:45. | :55:48. | |
traffic gridlock. Martina Purdy looks back at the political week in | :55:48. | :55:58. | |
:55:58. | :56:04. | ||
His speech on Unionist unity left Ulster Unionists and running again. | :56:04. | :56:09. | |
John McAllister was sacked as Deputy Leader. He took the sunshine | :56:09. | :56:15. | |
into unity as an attack on him. political power caught the decision | :56:15. | :56:21. | |
of brittle. He was not in the room. John McAllister was. He put out a | :56:21. | :56:26. | |
statement. Not everyone in the Assembly was united on the issue of | :56:26. | :56:30. | |
gay marriage. There were tensions for some political partnerships. | :56:30. | :56:34. | |
Traffic chaos in Belfast left the regional development apartment in a | :56:34. | :56:40. | |
jam. Is it time to say sorry? are willing to play a rule, but the | :56:40. | :56:50. | |
back stops with them. At the chance encounter led to a new recruit. | :56:50. | :56:54. | |
Martin McGuinness had a chuckle at the Ulster Unionists expense. | :56:54. | :57:04. | |
:57:04. | :57:09. | ||
Ulster Unionist Party could be You mentioned -- you mentioned the | :57:09. | :57:13. | |
Ulster Unionist Party, but what about the sacking and the | :57:13. | :57:16. | |
justification for giving the speech when he appeared on the evil on | :57:16. | :57:23. | |
Thursday night? He would say he is and has to have -- and that he has | :57:24. | :57:27. | |
done nothing that deviates from party policy. I think the who thing | :57:27. | :57:32. | |
is a car crash from the point of view of watching UUP almost to | :57:33. | :57:37. | |
implode. He is a tremendous loss. You wonder how long he will remain | :57:37. | :57:42. | |
in the party. There was speculation and one of the parked -- papers of | :57:42. | :57:45. | |
are the people leaving the party and baby setting up on its own. It | :57:45. | :57:52. | |
is quite disastrous. He spoke about trying to attract some of the | :57:53. | :57:56. | |
people who do not vote in Northern Ireland. A think this is quite | :57:56. | :58:01. | |
disastrous. Do you agree? You think they have got this wrong question | :58:01. | :58:07. | |
at the iron fist on form as the greatest advocate, particularly in | :58:07. | :58:09. | |
political parties about collective responsibility. How ever, in | :58:10. | :58:14. | |
politics, you have to be able to have your own fair. You have to be | :58:14. | :58:18. | |
honest and be able to express a view. John McAllister had a very | :58:18. | :58:21. | |
real fame and should have been allowed to do it. He did it in a | :58:21. | :58:25. | |
constructive way and a way that he was able to make his point, not be | :58:25. | :58:30. | |
critical overly, but actually, have that six. And I think that actually | :58:30. | :58:35. | |
was very good for UUP. I think the mistake he made was to come in too | :58:35. | :58:39. | |
hard on something and make it look like he is totally unreasonable and | :58:39. | :58:43. | |
drain -- ruling with a what of iron and trying to be strong in an area | :58:43. | :58:51. | |
where he could have showed a more attitude. What about the rule from | :58:51. | :58:58. | |
independence to you care? Were you surprised, bemused, intrigued by | :58:58. | :59:04. | |
any of that? One of the above to an extent. I wonder long term would be. | :59:04. | :59:14. | |
:59:14. | :59:15. | ||
Will be. Want impact it will make. -- what impact it will make. Long | :59:15. | :59:22. | |
term, I wonder what future there is a net for the party here. But and | :59:22. | :59:24. | |
the other issue we need to talk about his traffic gridlock. | :59:24. | :59:27. | |
Everybody seems to be talking about that before the talk about anything | :59:27. | :59:36. | |
else. I sat in an hour-long traffic jam to go to a business meeting the | :59:36. | :59:40. | |
other morning. I was not happy. Let's see how this pans out. I'm | :59:40. | :59:45. | |
sure that we will all lent go somewhere else. The answer is to go | :59:45. | :59:49. | |
and move elsewhere. I had no problem getting here. We had | :59:49. | :59:52. |