15/04/2012 Sunday Politics Northern Ireland

In half an hour's time, the first of many centenaries as the Titanic

is remembered. Will it set the tone for the flurry of political

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1734 seconds

Welcome to Sunday Politics in Northern Ireland. It has been a

week marked by an influx of visitors. Most of them are here for

the Titanic centenary. But a trade visit from one of China's most

senior politicians attracted almost as much media attention.

The red carpet was rolled out for Madame Liu Yandong in a bid to

boost trade links. But at what cost?

Today, a big commemorations. Lot of anniversary is still to come. Join

me here later at Titanic Belfast. End are their Second World War

secrets in -- and are there Second World War secrets in the Foyle?

In order for Northern Ireland to reach out what the rest of the

world, we have to reach out to one of the biggest economic powerhouses.

But does it come at a price, pockets before principles? In a

moment I will be put in that question to the East Belfast MP

Naomi long. But first I am joined by writer Martina Devlin and PR

consultant Nick Garbutt. What did you make of it is it? You have to

ask yourself, is money the only rationale? China is not a democracy.

There is not freedom of worship for freedom of protest. There is no

freedom to elect a government. Let us not forget the great fire Wall

of China concerning the internet. People do not know what is going on

in their own country. This is what we are dealing with. Politicians

have to ask themselves the question, do I put my can such wind's welfare

-- do I put my constituents welfare below that of economic profit?

is a matter for the Foreign Office and for David Cameron to be dealing

with rather than Peter Robinson. That part of government has not

been devolved. There are issues but just look at our economy. 70 %

dependent on the public sector. China is a communist country. It is

only 40 % dependent on its public sector. It shows how far we have to

go. I noticed that the local media were kept behind the ropes and the

Chinese media were left to wonder fray. We are not able to lecture on

issues like nepotism when it comes to China. Nevertheless I think

money cannot be the bottom line when it comes to dealing with

people. It is putting a gloss on it to say that perhaps some persuasion

can be brought upon China. I do not see them listening to this little

corner of the world. A new signature project concerning the

Titanic drew in one of China's most influential politicians. Our

correspondent joins me now. What did she make of the visit? Is it is

important from an economic perspective. I think it is about

getting the balance right. It is difficult to tell if we are doing

that. There has been a statement coming through from the ministers

as to whether or not issues were raised about ethics in China.

think the issues of human rights were raised. The are ways to do

that very gently. I have met with the -- there are ways to do that

very gently. You have to build a relationship before you can broach

these issues. As China becomes more and were facing, you have to use

opportunities to raise these issues with them. I do not think Northern

Ireland will be a turning point. We have to be realistic about what we

will be likely to achieve. I think some of the work has to be done

through the universities. There needs to be an exchange of students.

There is an opportunity there to open up a country that is otherwise

a very closed and we should take those opportunities seriously.

you think Helmand is the place to raise these issues? The foreign com

-- do you think Parliament is the place to raise these issues? I

personally believe that every opportunity you have you should

raise these issues. It has always been the case that international

policy has been debated at Westminster. But way back when we

were in our heyday we were not turning away slave labour -- we

were not turning away ships because we bought slave labour was wrong.

This is about finding the right balance. -- thought slave labour

was wrong. Do you think our politicians could have gone away

with lecturing China? Be it is never about lecturing people. -- it

is never about lecturing people. I do not think we should be lecturing

people. If you can have a delicate discussion you can raise the issue

and make people aware that even in Northern Ireland, a relatively

small part of the world, people are conscious of what is happening in

China and are interested about what is happening there. Making the

government beware of that is a useful thing to do. A relationship

has to be built, that is the way to change how China operates in a

global environment. We have the Confucius Institute and various

other strong links to China. What can China offer us? From an

educational background, at the opportunity for people to

experience another culture is hugely important as we try to

develop. We are looking at new technologies and so on and we need

the expertise. They have to learn from us as well. There are things

we have been seeing in Northern Ireland's that can be exported. The

cultural exchange is very important. I think it is an important part of

opening up China to the outside world and also open up people from

that country to see what it is like to live in some of the Western

democracies. I think a change in China will happen as a result of

that moment rather than people lecturing each other across a table.

This comes after elements of the University and higher learning will

be scrapped. I have not been party to any of the remote -- Burham Hill

about this. -- rumour mill about this. I would you that there has to

be some form of public consultation about the dissolution of certain

departments. I am not aware that these consultations have started. I

believe it would have to happen and there would have to be due process

around it. There would have to be a proper legislative process put in

place. By think they intend to do that -- but I think they intend to

do that. I think there is a much broader view about which

departments could be dissolved and perhaps the work in the assembly

into something more effective. That is not the process that has been

engaged on by the executive as it stands. In terms of Westminster,

there is this pressure. Where does it stems from? A thing it is an

issue in Northern Ireland that we do not have to -- across I think it

is an issue in Northern Ireland but we do not have to declare our party

donations. That is for security issues, that was the argument that

was made. We made an argument as a party that this year's financial

returns would be make -- made public. I think it is important

that people know who pay the politicians and he pays the party.

-- and who pays the parties. We need money to do our business but

it is important for people to see who does that. A lot of the

discussion we have had in Westminster has proven that some

people are uncertain about this. This weekend there has been a

series of events to mark the One hundred anniversary of the sinking

of the Titanic and the loss of more than 1,000 lives. -- one hundredth.

Our correspondent joins us from Titanic Belfast.

By the end of today, more than 50,000 people will have passed

through the doors of this new building here, Titanic Belfast. Two

of those are visiting us here. We have seen a lot of celebration.

There was a rock concert just outside Aunt Friday night. Today

there is a solemn commemoration. -- on Friday night. Should the

commemoration have come before the celebration? We have heard this

argument recently. It is actually absolutely packed here today. There

is a large part of this that is about remembering those people that

died. I have been here twice and I must say that I have been very

moved both times. The assembly here has ordered the people who died.

The centre is all about history but there are some and the national

community that feels that part of the history has been perhaps a

little airbrush, particularly around the treatment of Catholics

and the shipyard in those days. in the shipyard. If you look at

1912, at the end of July 1912, there was a public statement made

by a bishop that estimated that 3,000 Catholics had been put out in

the shipyards and other industrial sites in Belfast. That is part of

Titanic history. Do you think that is lost in the telling of the story

now? Palace and Labour men were also put out. -- Protestant labour

men were also put out. There were terrible conditions. I hope that

this year when we look at the totality of the story we have a

deeper understanding of the conditions of our city. We have

seen the First Minister and Deputy First Minister embracing this as a

shared space. Are we creating a template for some of the other

territories that are coming up? -- anniversaries that are coming up?

It is about celebrating and remembrance, these anniversaries. I

heard a lecture and a was well received. I think that can be

replicated for the next couple of years. -- and it was well received.

Some of these are politically divisive and controversial. Yes,

there can be a combustible dynamic. I think that really enhances our

sense of us. I think we have a much more layered and complex view of

ourselves. We are not a one- dimensional people. There are many

dimensions to our story. I think there's dimensions give us a sense

-- I think those dimensions give us a sense of ourselves. What is your

hope of the economic benefit of this centre washing over into your

constituency in East Belfast? Certainly we have seen thousands of

tourists coming here in the past few weeks. We want to ensure that

local people will advance themselves to a training and jobs

around here. I have seen a number of young people who were unemployed

working in here and that made me happy. Thank you for joining us

That is it from Titanic Belfast. Back to you in the studio.

Back to our studio guests on the issue of the Titanic. Nick, are we

striking the right balance between respect and remembrance for a week

crudely cashing in on an opportunity? I would have preferred

if they could have launched the building last year so that we could

actually be solemnly commemorating what was a devastatingly terrible

tragedy. Having said that, I think that everything that I have seen

and read has been dignified and has been appropriate and I think that

we are striking the right balance. I do not think there is any damage

or bad thing about Belfast becoming a great centre for four people

coming to learn about the Titanic and for the -- for many people to

come and learn about the Titanic. Do you think this is a new

opportunity for a new narrative? There was some resentment that --

there was some resentment by nationalists. If all the elements

are remembered and lessons are learned and that is a way to move

forward. There was sectarianism surrounding it. That is a reminder

to us never to have this sort of policies again, just as the Titanic

is a reminder not to send ships to say if they do not have enough

lifeboats. Better abroad ships to see if they do not have enough left

but -- to send ships to see if they do not have enough white boats. I

would like to see Belfast get its moment in the sun. Won, it is

amazing -- and Saif Al-Islam, it is amazing, the cachet that the

Titanic -- Nick, it is amazing, the cachet that the Titanic has across

It is amazing. I have been trying to work it out myself. I am

fascinated by the Titanic, but possibly because I am fascinated by

drowning. It is my biggest fear. think we could save you! It is an

appalling tragedy, isn't it? It is almost mythic in its circumstances.

Those people would have been filled with hope and excitement. It is

also great fodder for writers. did write a book about the Titanic.

I suppose I had a personal reason because my friend Terence eloped on

the Titanic. James Cameron still Arab family story, really. -- our

grandparents eloped on the Titanic. James Cameron stole our family

story, really. Here is hour look at Republicans marked Easter and said

that the IRA was not a business. There is no other IRA in Belfast or

anywhere else. And there is no arms struggle to be finished. 100 years

on, we mark the Titanic's final stop in Ireland. Flag flying caused

a storm on the hill. They knew this not going to get through. I do not

know if this is a gesture towards people in their own party that they

are fighting what, but it is certainly not going to happen.

Four-inch men got permission to watch on Stormont's grounds. --

orange men. We said hello to China's most

powerful woman. And the environment minister was to solve the mystery

The flags issue is like the poor, it is always with us. Can you see a

Irish Tricolour flying over Stormont any time soon? We were

listening to the segment before where they were talking about

anniversaries coming up and how we are going to deal with those. We

have got some difficult coming -- difficult ones coming. We have the

anniversary of the foundation of the UVF. There is the foundation of

the Irish citizens' army. How will we have a collective view of those

events if we get in a row about flags? Martina, do you think there

will be any change? I think we should do away with flags entirely.