01/04/2012 Sunday Politics Northern Ireland


Andrew Neil and Tara Mills present. Including an interview with health secretary Andrew Lansley about his proposed reforms to the NHS and what they would mean for patients.

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It was a short, sharp campaign and now the Ulster Unionists have a new


leader. Join me in half an hour when I'll ask Mike Nesbitt to put


Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2164 seconds


some flesh on the bones of his Hello and welcome to The Sunday


Politics in Northern Ireland. The three-week contest to become Ulster


Unionist leader came to a dramatic climax yesterday. More than 600


party members gathered to cast their votes at a hotel on the


outskirts of Belfast. The bookies put Mike Nesbitt ahead right from


the close of nominations. And they were right. He won a decisive


victory. We'll hear from him shortly. Also on the programme:


Remember enterprise zones? The Chancellor has brought them back.


But why are there none in Northern Ireland? There has been more rapid


progress in England, Scotland and Wales and some of these ideas could


apply to Northern Ireland. calls for one MLA to leave his post,


another to leave his party and a third to deliver. A baby, that is.


It's been a busy week. But first, with me for the next 20 minutes are


Liam Clarke, political editor of the Belfast Telegraph, and


Professor Graham Walker from Queen's University. Many other


delegates we spoke to yesterday said that it was because Mike


Nesbitt was good in the media. Is that what it boiled down to? People


I spoke to, 10 people coming out of the hall, most of them had been up


their mind before they went to vote that they did comment on Mike's


speech, they said that he walked around the podium, he was fluid and


he was a good communicator. One comment at John was that he was


like a Traditional Unionist speech, rousing, but it was a polished


performance that they needed. history of the party has always


been division over the Liberal agenda. Can this be a fresh start


for the Ulster Unionist Party? will have to be. The main challenge


is to stop the slide into the margins of politics. The UUP has a


long history of covering Northern Ireland and the long history of


being the centre of initiatives to resolve the conflict. The party has


a great problem in adjusting to not being at the centre of things and


this leadership issue is crucial. He will be the third Ulster


Unionist leader in as many years. But can he unite the membership?


Before we hear from Mike Nesbitt, how did his victory go down among


the party faithful? Today is fantastic for us, there is a lot of


excitement and they did not know if anybody has realised. Mike Nesbitt


will be fantastic. I hope he we energises the people to come out


and vote because a lot of Unionists are not voting and we need to bring


more young people into politics. is a very good media performer. He


declared his campaign early, which helps, and he is a very strong


leader with great personal qualities and he made a great


effort in going around the country. Both candidates are very positive


and they would bring great things to the party but they chose John


mainly on his speech and his conviction in wanting to bring


opposition into the party and trying to bring an alternative to


people. Mike Nesbitt, some delegates we spoke to said that


even though they voted for you, there was more substance with John


McCallister. When will we get real policies from you? I did not hear


John's speech. I cannot comment. was standing for opposition.


Actually, there is no opposition so he was standing on taking the


Minister out of the executive. I will be clear, we need to be more


cohesive as the inept and coherent inner cities. What does it actually


mean in real terms? What are you doing that is different from the


DUP? You want to ask these questions today and I want to say


that what we did 14 years ago is now over. It was the heavy lifting


that brought peace. We had a vote yesterday which said that the party


accepts that is over and the challenge and what the electorate


is looking for is who will do the next heavy lifting? And the big


challenge is delivering the social justice agenda in the Belfast


Agreement which has not been delivered, bringing about a shared


future and that is where we will draw a line between ourselves and


the Democratic Unionist Party. previously said Holmes, not houses


and homes to be enjoyed. That was described as some as motherhood and


apple pie. What is wrong with being aspirational? What I would like us


to do is return to where we were a decade ago and become contributors


to the Treasury. To do away with the block grant. Why not aim for


that? If we're going to grow the private sector, why not have it as


good as in the golden era? What DUP policies do you a pose and really


differ from? Shared a verses shared out future. Something broader


between us. Look at this week, there was a debate over whether


George Galloway's shocking success was the final proof that the


electorate in the UK are now totally disconnected from Korea and


professional politicians and if that is the case, we are in a


position where we have an act as someone who isn't a career


politician and we can become attractive. He is very well-known,


the targeted at particular area and some people say the same things


about you! Was that not good politics? To get a good turnout and


a decisive vote? Is that not but I was supposed to do? To come out


with a large mandate? It's interesting about the turn out


because we were told in the run-up to the leadership vote that there


were 2000 party members that could vote but only 663 voted yesterday.


Around that figure. You were elected on 30% turnout? Tom Eliot


had 930 turnout. The it is down. That was a Wednesday night and


people had not paid their subscriptions this year and over


100 people turned up who did not have a vote. The new people you're


talking about, if you cannot motivate those party members across


Northern Ireland, to come to Belfast and vote for you, it isn't


that decisive, he won in terms of the people who were there. 1400


people stayed at home. If you want to say to the members of the party


that what happened yesterday was not good enough, do that, but I am


happy. When it comes to the education committee and what you


will do in the future, when you step down? I do anticipate that.


When you see yourself as being bigger and Minister? Not in the


short term but I would anticipate going in before the next election,


it would be good for the leader to be in the executive but that is a


very long way down the line and there is plenty of movement and


objectives to accomplish between now and then. World Danny Kennedy


stay? He will be the first person to know the answer to that.


have not told them, but you will not say that he will stay? He will


be the first to know. When it comes to Unionist unity, during the


campaign you commented to the Newsletter there was a soft No two


Unionist unity in terms of electoral pacts. But you said


yesterday that there is no such thing as Unionist unity. Are you


finally saying, we are the Ulster Unionist Party, we are not the DUP


and there will be no arrangements at elections. We are. I said after


the Westminster election, when we had the alliance with the


Conservative Party, that in future we would always stand as the Ulster


Unionists, with our own name and believes, and that is where it is.


In politics, never say never, but I cannot imagine any circumstances


when it would be good for the party and pro-Union people and for


politics to have an electoral pact. He said yesterday you wanted


electoral success. Which suits could you possibly win back? If you


had given the near 600 people who turned up a blank sheet they would


have written down Upper Bann and South Antrim for Westminster.


woes are the top priorities? would say those other seats that


you would are automatically say would be topping the list to look


at. I have not started doing that, I have a lot of things to do. I am


concerned about the cohesion of the party, yesterday with 81% going for


one vision. There is huge cohesion. We will build on that and move into


coherence and the message. And look at enhancing the European vote and


what to do after local government, what we will target to get more


councillors. Liam Clarke, it is interesting the distinction between


the DUP and the Ulster Unionists. Is there any point in the Ulster


Unionist Party now? That is what might have to struggle to establish.


He did say in an interview when a speech by Peter Robinson was quoted


to him, he thought he might have said that himself. The UUP are on


the DUP ground, can Carson -- it is sometimes hard to see any


distinction. There is bad blood between the parties but I do not


know that you will get any distinct message to the voter. I was struck


by Mike saying that the party was like a business. And prop it was


par. I do not know if that conveys any great distinction from the DUP.


What I'm saying is that you can have the best policies but if you


don't have control of the leaders, what is the point? I want our party


to serve the people but you need to be in government. When you go to


the doors coming to the next election, when you say that I want


you to vote for me, you have to have something different to offer.


If you go back to Tony Blair in 1927, they would do the health


service differently and cut red tape. You must have policies? --


1997. When he was that my position, 24 hours into the job, he said this


party was not fit to govern and we have to take a party that people


believe isn't electable and make it electable. It is about politics and


also organisation and we need better policies and communicators


but better organisation and better resources. When I first announced


they were standing for Westminster, the first blog that I read was Mike


Nesbitt could turn out to be a good politician but that does not matter.


We don't know who the DUP will put up against him and that doesn't


matter, he will not win because the DUP have a better electoral machine.


And they did win. That is the bottom line? It is knocking on


doors and getting members and councillors into the grass roots?


The UUP has lost touch with a lot of people, particularly end less


well-off constituencies. A recent report highlighted the low


educational attainment rates in Unionist working-class areas, for


example. There is a huge challenge. And maybe you would need to put


forward some distinctive policies to address particular issues like


that. Another question that came to my mind is that you mentioned


yesterday looking across the water at Scotland, England and Wales and


of course one of the great questions emerging is the future of


the Union. There is a great challenge for you in showing how


Ulster Unionism can relate to that debate, particularly around the


Scottish question and the question of any referendum in Scotland.


will you campaign in terms of? Leave the Scots to make up their


own mind? The if I take that first point, there was a radio debate


about how we have not delivered on social justice since 1998. I grew


up in leafy suburbs in North and East Belfast and that been


relatively easy for me to be here today. If I was born one mile down


the road, closer to the city centre, you might never have heard of me.


What I am thinking as we are not connected and what any to do is


find a family who will adopt me for 24 hours and live in an area of


social deprivation because they think it is important to get some


feel for what it is like. The last two weeks, we have been debating


about whether we should be in or out of government at Stormont,


Stormont isn't relevant to a lot of people and there is a big debate on


the future of the union and there has not been any better time to


debate the benefits of the UK and we have to get out there and


promote that. Not just across Northern Ireland but into Scotland


and Wales and particularly into England. Thank you all very much.


What have England, Scotland and Wales got that we haven't?


Enterprise zones, for a start. The Chancellor revived the scheme last


year in a bid to boost economic development across the UK. So why


hasn't the Executive asked the Treasury for money to set them up


here? Yvette Shapiro has been London's Canary Wharf is the most


successful of the 40 enterprise zones set up across the UK in the


1980s. Companies locating in North Belfast's Duncrue Industrial Estate


30 years ago got a rates exemption and other incentives. One of those


attracted to the area was this major sportswear retailer. Units


went very quickly in those days, the late '80s and early '90s. The


rates holiday was up until the mid '90s so people wanted to take


advantage of this and the area grew very quickly. Most people who


located here have been successful. We've been here for almost 25 years.


We started here, we grew here and we intend to stay here. Economist


John Simpson watched the development of the zones in Belfast


and Derry. Those enterprise zones of the 1980s had the effect When we


look back on it, what they did was they shifted business from one part


of the city to another. They moved business rather than brought in new


business so they weren't really deemed to be a success. There may


be mixed views, but the Tories have revived this Thatcherite idea,


offering tax breaks, rates holidays and speedier planning approval for


firms locating in enterprise zones. 24 enterprise zones are going ahead


across England. We look forward to the first in Northern Ireland.


There has been much more rapid progress in England, Scotland and


Wales on enterprise zones and I think some of these ideas could


apply to Northern Ireland. We should try to use every tool in the


box but it's very much a devolved responsibility as to whether to go


ahead. This has been on offer since the budget last year. Privately,


Northern Ireland Office officials say they're surprised that the


Executive has not sought funding for enterprise zones in Northern


Ireland. But local ministers are currently locked in talks, not only


on reducing corporation tax but on a looming economic problem. Under


current rules, companies that want to expand in Northern Ireland can


receive grants from Invest Northern Ireland. Because the province has


what is called 100% status for regional aid. But under proposals


from Vince Cable, that could be removed. Meaning that only


companies based in economically deprived areas of Northern Ireland


will receive financial assistance. The minister says the time is not


yet right to set up enterprise zones here. The Treasury came


forward to say they will give us the power to vary capital


allowances in certain zones and that would be great, we will use


that money, but we cannot do that at present because we do not know


what the story is in relation to the regional picture so it is like


the chicken and the egg. That is why we have been pushing the


Treasury hard to make some decisions in relation to


rebalancing the Northern Ireland economy. What will they do about


Corporation Tax? But some of the key business organisations are more


in tune with the Secretary of State on this issue, urging the Executive


to explore the possibilities. need a number of micro enterprise


zones. To redress the economic imbalance of Northern Ireland,


particularly West of the River Bann with many areas effectively star at


other investment for quite a very long period of time. It can also be


applied to helping regenerate town and city centres. It is important,


it is some time when it to focus on in terms of having enterprise zones.


It's the traditional cry of a leader in waiting. I will deliver.


And, as it turned out, John McCallister did, though not the way


he expected to. Here's Stephen Walker's political week in 60


seconds. Health grabbed the headlines with a call for the


minister to become a political casualty. His head should roll. He


is the person who has not delivered. But he stayed put and instead took


a swipe at the Alliance Party. McCartney, in true star, dead be


here for a very opportunistic way. -- did be here. Political geography


got MLAs excited, with some unexpected language. He did not win


the occupied Six Counties?! Ballycastle said goodbye to horses.


The UUP said cheerio to David McNarry for nine months. John


McAllister's nine-month wait was over as he delivered a very young


unionist. The baby arrived into my arms. There was a beautiful moment.


100 years on, we remembered our most famous ship. Just one final


word. Interesting, some of the points that Mike Nesbitt put


forward. His Danny Kennedy out of his job? He signalled that he isn't


sure. He has to think about it. I do fear that Mike Nesbitt isn't


very keen on this idea of DUP ministers attending the DUP


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