17/07/2016 Sunday Politics Northern Ireland


Andrew Neil and Mark Carruthers with the latest political news, interviews and debate.

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Morning folks, and welcome to the Sunday Politics.


After Friday's failed coup, the crackdown in Turkey begins


with thousands of arrests and threats of retribution,


including the death penalty for rebels.


What does the turmoil mean for Turkey's future,


Nato and the fight against Islamic State?


I wish you all the best and I am supporting you all the way. Do I get


a hug? Jeremy Corbyn's confident


that his fans will ensure he's re-elected - but he tells us


that the rules of Labour's leadership election are unfair


and the party's national executive She was a "Remainer"


but Theresa May's promised to deliver on the voters' verdict


and take us out of the EU - And in Northern Ireland: As we say


goodbye to Theresa Villiers, her successor, James Brokenshire,


outlines his priorities And we hear live from the First


and Deputy First Ministers. Since we broadcast last week,


a new Prime Minister, a new government, carnage in Nice


and an attempted coup in Turkey. The unexpected is now


commonplace, major news events But one thing that doesn't change


here on Sunday mornings is that we always bring you the best


and the brightest political panel in the business -


Steve Richards, Isabel Oakeshott So Friday night's attempted army


coup in Turkey failed and President Erdogan has moved


ruthlessly to re-establish He says the coup was "a gift from


God" because it gives him a reason A major clampdown on dissent is now


widely anticipated, Let's get the latest


from our Correspondent Is it underway? Is it expected to be


pretty ruthless? Yes. It is underway. The crackdown has already


taken place. Around 3000 soldiers have been detained including


high-ranking generals and around 3000 judges have been dismissed from


their posts. Many judges have also been detained. President Recep


Tayyip Erdogan had already said that those behind the coup attempt would


be paying a heavy price and that is what we are seeing at the moment.


Many people think that the crackdown will further deepen. The government


thinks that the movement of Fethullah Gulen is behind this


attempt. That is something that Fethullah Gulen denies. He is a


cleric based in Pennsylvania, Annex aisle who used to be on good terms


with the government, and Mr Hird one himself. -- Mr Erdogan. Fethullah


Gulen has said he has been involved includes himself, but he played no


part in this one. Although the square would normally be packed with


hundreds of tourists, the beauty of Istanbul being celebrated, but last


night it was a different story, packed with hundreds of supporters


of the government, chanting slogans like, God is great, in protest of


the coup attempt. They adhered to the call coming from President


Erdogan to take it out to the streets. They were jubilant because


they felt empowered, in the part they played in suppressing the coup


attempt. If there was a source of resistance to President is Erdogan,


it was not the army, and I would suggest that he is going to take


over the army, and he will have complete control. He was already


pretty authoritarian before this happened. Is Turkey now in danger of


a dictatorship? That is a question that many people asked. In Turkey


and in the world. People who do not necessarily aligned themselves with


the government policies were already cautious about Mr Erdogan's


tendencies about getting more executive powers. It is no secret


that President Erdogan once to change the parliamentary system in


Turkey to a presidential system which would give him powers that no


other president has seen before in Turkey. And now that he has managed


to suppress this coup attempt, many people in Turkey fear that this


could actually play into the hands of Mr Hird one, and turn the country


into an alt. Chrissie, as you have said. -- way into the hands of Mr


Erdogan. But on the other hand, Mr Erdogan's supporters are jubilant


and they think that this was a victory of democracy. Yesterday the


Turkish parliament convened an extraordinary session and all the


opposition parties supported the government. The portrayed a stand


against the coup attempt. The Prime Minister thanked them and said that


this could be a threshold moment for Turkish politics but considering


that Turkey is a polarised country and politics is divided, whether the


government can bring everybody together after these 48 hours of


trauma, it is a difficult task. They give very much. -- thank you very


much. We're joined by the Foreign Affairs


analyst, Tim Marshall. Let's look back at what happened


here. The Turkish army, traditionally does not like Islamist


leaning governments and has mounted three successful coups, turning


Turkey to a more secular at two secular government. What was this, a


gang that could not shoot straight or the keystone cops to make a bit


of both. It was white, they did most of the right things but they did not


have the depth above them. Above them, they had no support. They made


two massive errors. They did not kill President Erdogan. That is the


first thing you should do. I am not advocating it! It is a 101 guide to


coups! But that is paragraph one, kill or at least capture the


president. And shut down the media. They went to the state television,


and in the 20th century, all the media was in one building and you


would close it down. But they forgot that in the 21st-century, there was


CNN Turkey still on a, and they did not close down social media, so Mr


Erdogan, who hates social media and Twitter, pepper and --


hypocritically gets onto Facebook and says to Turkey, get into the


streets and because the coup is white and not deep, very soon the


call to prayer goes out, and they know it is not the proper time, and


it means going to the street. Within half an hour, the people outnumber


the troops and the pendulum swings the other way. If Turkey faces a


serious clamp-down, a move from authoritarianism to something


bordering on dictator -- a dictatorship, this surely has huge


obligations for Turkey's relations with America and the EU? And for the


fight with Islamic State. This goes from being a domestic event to one


with regional and geopolitical implications. And a Nato member.


It's funny, we talk about him all the time, but as your correspondent


said, this is a parliamentary republic, where traditionally the


president is simply a figurehead but because he is so dominant and has


total control of the HK party, all he had to do was switch from one job


to the next. And all the power went with him because of the atmosphere


at not because of the law. But he tried last year to move the powers


legally into his office. He is closing down the media, he is now


getting rid of the remnants in the Army that art not with him, and he


has the support of the mosques and parliament. It is becoming a


democratic dictatorship, a phrase I came up with for the loss of itch in


Serbia, you bring two new radio stations out that broadcast so


loudly that free speech is still allowed, but it cannot be heard.


Remember the Civil War was the Kurds? That will just be utterly


ruthless. This is a hugely historic event in Turkey's history because


previous army coups have won and he will now take out the army as an


independent force and it will become much more authoritarian, perhaps


even autocratic. Where does this leave Western relations with Turkey?


I think we can agree that it is not going to join the European Union any


time soon so we can scotch that one. I think the ultimate dilemma must be


for Nato. It is a security organisation but it is also an


organisation defined by certain values and practices and if


President Erdogan responds to the coup attempt by tightening freedoms


further, by intervening against the judiciary and the Armed Forces


further, then there must be a dilemma at some stage for Nato. I


thought it might have been telling that three or four hours, I don't


know if Tim agrees, for the US at least, if not Nato, to say anything


about the coup, when they did they did not mention President Erdogan by


name. I don't know if that suggests they know what side there bread is


buttered on and they were waiting to see if the coup would succeed. But


it is a huge event for the West and Turkey. The state was founded on


secular ideals. The Armed Forces have always been seen as an


invigilator of government. I am right in saying that the Turkish


president has never been commander-in-chief, officially, in


the way that a US president would be. Or a French president. Many


people think that what he wants to do is create an executive style


French presidency. You would still have a parliament and a Prime


Minister but it would be the president that matters, rather than


just being head of state. Turkey has been so pivotal, first of all in


dealing with the migrant crisis in the eastern Mediterranean, with the


situation in Syria, and Islamic State, and in the region as a


regional superpower that balances Iran and even Saudi Arabia. We don't


know where this is going to lead now. And has been talk for a long


time about how it is massively in the interest of the West to have a


stable Turkey. It has not been stable for some time and it will not


be, even if this coup was a somewhat silly, ill thought through coup, it


is clearly destabilising and will have consequences for a long time to


come. I would be interesting to -- I would be interested to hear from Tim


whether the EU has some leveraged because Turkey's desire to join it.


That dynamic, although clearly not the agenda in spite of the farcical


things said during the referendum campaign, that gives the EU some


leveraged in reshaping what happens in Turkey. You wonder if that is


even on his mind. It will not be. But the president has so many


domestic fish to fry, and that might not be a very good metaphor given


what he is about to do. If he is about to reintroduce the death


penalty, it becomes very difficult to talk about Turkey being part of


the EU. What do our diplomats do? It is in our interest to encourage the


dreamer but it does not look compatible with the way that things


are being carried out. Remarkably, these events in Gneiss had been


overshadowed by Turkey and yet it only happened on Thursday night and


this is Sunday morning. I suggest that the reaction in France to Nice


is going to be very different. Charlie Hebdo, the Bataclan, there


was great solidarity and it brought France together. I think this is


different because people have had enough and it is different because


there are clear security questions. No barrier on the promenade. We are


told that there was a barrier when the military parades took place but


it was removed after words, and already the politicians are ganging


up on the government and this is becoming a major pre-election issue.


That's right. The election is next year and Marine Le Pen is


positioning herself very strongly with the National Front. There is a


public divided on how to approach it and even if this is not Islamic


State, and I am not convinced that it is, it happens in the context of


Islamic State and of mass slaughter in the name of something. It is


another chip away at our freedoms. And that is, in itself, a success.


They are going to continue. I believe the rise of the right is far


from Peking. And it plays absolutely into next year's presidential


election. Going back from the presidential election, that all


comes into what the EU is going to look like. We are in a state of


flux. You are old enough, forgive me, Andrew, to know that everybody


always says it has never been as bad as now and it is always untrue. But


it is actually more corrugated than I have ever known it. And you may


agree. I do agree. The Conservatives completed


their leadership contest in a matter of days,


Labour's has barely begun. There are now two candidates


standing against Jeremy Corbyn - Angela Eagle and Owen Smith -


but the Labour Leader has told us that the rules which exclude


recently signed up members from voting in the contest


are unfair and he wants the party's national executive


to change them. Adam Fleming went for a walk


in the park with Mr Corbyn. This is the lake that was built


here in the 19th century, rather strange lake on the top


of the hill. I went for a stroll


round the Labour leader's favourite local beauty spot -


Finsbury Park in north London. Do you have time to take a casual


stroll with a journalist Yes, because doing things


in a relaxed way is important, and doing other things is important,


so going to a park, being in your However busy I am, my


allotment is tended. It's in good order, we had a good


crop of broad beans and we ate A slightly less relaxing


part of his week. At a meeting of Labour's national


executive on Tuesday, Jeremy Corbyn secured an automatic


place in the leadership election. But he's not happy with new rules


that say people who joined the party There's going to be some quite


intense discussions over the next few days, I suspect,


and I hope our party officials and National Executive will see


sense on this and recognise that those people who have freely


given their time and money to join the Labour Party should be welcomed


in and given the opportunity to take part in this crucial debate,


whichever way they decide to vote. I'm hoping there will be


an understanding that it is simply not very fair to say to people that


joined the party in the last six months, "sorry, your participation


is no longer welcome because we are having


a leadership contest." In the next few days,


various Labour factions will be racing to sign people up


as registered supporters, It costs ?25, not ?3


like in the last contest. For people who can't afford the 25


quid, what would you suggest If they can't afford the ?25,


what they do? It seems to me the ?25 bar is quite


high and not really reasonable. A lot of people have said to me,


people stop me in the street saying, "I would love to vote in this


election but I can't afford ?25." He is also disappointed that


virtually all local party meetings have been suspended over


fears of intimidation. I haven't stopped party meetings


taking place and I actually I think party meetings


should take place. Intimidation of any sort by anybody


is absolutely wrong, but to cancel meetings


because of the perception that intimidation might take place


I think is a big mistake. The issues appear to be that


where meetings have taken place, far more people have attended


than were expected and so there has been issues about how people


can get in the room, whereas there's a fairly


simple answer to that - Talking of meetings,


who was he with when Theresa May was taking over as Prime Minister


earlier this week? I was with an all-party group,


including Conservatives, talking to two of the Miami five


who had been in prison in Miami and were released


by the court decisions of USA and the new rapprochement with Cuba


and actually welcoming the fact there had been an agreement


reached in Cuba. I was actually with Conservatives


and Labour people. I was there for about 20 minutes,


then I went back to my office And so you felt that was a good use


of your time at that point when the country was transitioning


from one Prime Minister to another? Informing yourself by listening


to people from all kinds of walks This morning I was on the phone


to friends in Istanbul and Ankara And so when an issue happens


anywhere in the world, obviously I read all the briefings


that I've been given, obviously I follow the news


and information, but also I quite often know people in different


places around the world so I call Can I get a hug


for that? He also seems to know a lot


of people in this park. What do you think about


Angela Eagle and Owen Smith I have been trying to unregister


from the Green Party so that I can register with the Labour Party


so that I can support you. We were walking round


with Jeremy Corbyn, What did you shout


out when you saw him? I don't know what I said,


something awful like... Something like "you've


ruined the Labour Party". Something like, "step aside and stop


ruining the Labour Party," I guess. And I couldn't let Jeremy go


without introducing him to the craze sweeping the nation,


Pokemon Go. He didn't seem that bothered


but then he's playing a much bigger game, trying to hold onto his job,


and that's no walk in the park. Our work this morning has not


been in vain. And a longer version of that


interview with Jeremy Corbyn We're joined now from Salford


though by the Shadow Education Secretary,


Angela Rayner. Welcome to the programme. Jeremy


Corbyn wants to allow people who joined in the last six months of


your party to vote, he thinks the ?25 fee is too high. Isn't it just


typical of the chaos Labour is now in that you are holding a leadership


contest before you have agreed rules? Good morning, I think it's


important we recognise the Labour Party is transformed with now over


half a million members joined, which is fantastic. We are the largest


democratic social party across Europe. For me it is about


democracy. I asked about the rules, should you be having a contest


before you have agreed rules? The rules were decided at the NEC


meeting which lasted seven hours, quite a lengthy marathon... You want


to change them? People need to reflect upon the current situation


and there has been outrage. 130,000 people have joined since the


referendum, and we have got to give them the opportunity to have their


voice heard. Have these 130,000 that joined after the referendum been


properly vetted? That is a situation that the NEC and our party has got


to approve and go through. We did it last time, we had a huge number of


people join our party recently. Have that number been vetted or not? You


have got to allow democracy. What we do is we ensure we get more people,


more staff, more ability to deal with that issue because democracy is


important, it is enshrined. Hold on, you are starting the leadership


campaign and you still haven't vetted those who may be allowed to


vote, that's what I mean by chaos, if not fast. I don't think it's


chaotic to have over half a million people join our party and want to


have a say, it is a positive step. It is if you cannot vet them come


you don't know if they are members of the Socialist workers party, the


Greens, the Communists, the National front, the Conservatives. You have


no idea. We have 130,000 people who have joined in the last three weeks,


which the Conservative Party have around 150,000 members per se. We


have over half a million members so we are doing a great job. The


Trotskyists and other groups you are suggesting may be trying to join our


party, they are not in the great numbers we see at the moment. It is


important to give people a say about the future of our country and party.


I love democracy. Will you definitely be voting for Mr Corbyn


this time because you didn't last time. No, I supported Andy Burnham


last time, but I recognise Jeremy Corbyn had a significant mandate to


lead our party. I don't think it's time to have a leadership contest. I


will not be nominating another candidate, I will be recognising our


democratically elected leader. I asked who you will be voting for. I


will be supporting -- our democratically elected leader. Can


you say the words, I will vote for Jeremy Corbyn? I have made it clear


what my position is, and that's about democracy and our members


making... Are you or aren't you? I have told you I will be supporting


our democratically elected leader of our party. I want to hold the


Government to account, we have a bill coming up on Tuesday... I'm


puzzled, are you voting for Mr Corbyn? Your viewers want to see us


holding this Government to account. I have tried to answer your question


but you don't want to listen to my answer. Could you name the person


you will be voting for in this election? I will be listening to our


membership and in the meantime holding the Government to account


and supporting our democratically elected leader of our party, which


is Jeremy Corbyn. A new poll shows Theresa May leads Jeremy Corbyn 58%


to 19, on who would make the better Prime Minister. It shows 40% of


Labour voters think Theresa May would make a better Prime Minister.


Why are you backing, if you are, I'm still not clear, why are you backing


a loser? Our party is seen as quite divided and divided parties never


win elections. We don't disagree on policy points, we have to get our


policy points across to the electorate and then they will


decide. Theresa May has the challenge of bringing her


Conservative Party together. There was no competition, no democracy


within the Conservative Party in terms of who they wanted as leader.


She has a job to do because the country has never been more divided


than it is now and that's directly as a result of the Conservatives.


You all seem to have a job to do. Speaking of Mrs May, is the Labour


Party now the nasty party? No, Theresa May had it right, the


Conservatives continue to be so. They are cutting education funding


by up to 8% in this Parliament, they want to prioritise the NHS and have


already been creeping that in. They are not on the side of ordinary


people in this country. Theresa May has said she wants the Conservatives


to be a party for everybody and working people across the country.


Now her words have to be matched by actions. Let me ask you this about


Labour. Meetings of constituency Labour parties have been suspended


from fear of intimidation. There are death threats and violence, a brick


thrown through the window of the office block where Angela Eagle's


constituency is housed. Police have had to investigate. I ask again, is


it not Labour that is the nasty party? I think any act of abuse and


intimidation is disgusting in politics and many politicians from


all sides of the house have had death threats and threats of


violence, and that has got to be stamped out of a modern democracy.


Why is it in the Labour Party this is happening? It happens across the


spectrum in politics and it is disgusting. But it cannot stop


democracy either, we have got to continue to uphold and enshrined our


democracy in everything we do because it is important. It means a


lot to a lot of people but you cannot win on democracy by abusing,


threatening and intimidating the other side of the argument. You have


got to have a constructive debate and people have got to have their


democratic right to vote. Thanks for being with us this morning.


Now, despite signing up to David Cameron's Remain strategy,


our new Prime Minister has put navigating the UK's departure


from the EU and retaining the union at the centre


We're joined now by the Conservative MP and former attorney-general


The appointment of three key Cabinet positions to Brexiteers - Boris


Johnson, David Davis, and Liam Fox - reflects this.


A few days before his appointment, the Brexit Secretary set


out how he'd proceed with separation from the EU.


He said triggering new trade talks were a


priority and wanted the UK to negotiate free-trade deals with


Mr Davis believes the UK should not budge on control of our borders, but


the tariff-free access to the EU single market is still his preferred


The Brexit Secretary acknowledged that talks with the


Scottish, Welsh, and Northern Ireland governments


And Theresa May made the first step on Thursday, telling


Nicola Sturgeon in Edinburgh that she is willing to listen


to options on Scotland's future relationship


Mrs May said Britain would not rush into


Brexit negotiations and would need some time to prepare.


However, Mr Davis said Article 50 should be


and mean Britain would be out of the EU by January


We're joined now by the Conservative MP and former attorney-general


Dominic Grieve, who campaigned for Remain, and the Labour MP


who chaired the Vote Leave campaign, Gisela Stewart.


We are joined by Dominic Grieve and the chairman of the boat Leave


campaign, Gisela Stuart. -- Vote Leave. As Theresa May delivered? I


think she has. I think it was important that you made clear that


Brexit meant Brexit. We had to make a clear that there was no second


referendum in the offering. That required certainty for the country.


Are you satisfied with that? I am completely satisfied with her


approach, yes. It is clear that the vote, as expressed in the


referendum, has to be respected. We have to take forward a programme for


removing the United Kingdom from the EU. Really that is going to be an


immensely comported process and it also carries with it economic risks,


certainly in the short to medium term. I am also open-minded as to


how one best does that. I think we're going to have to respond to


events as well as trying to shape them. We have seen a blueprint


published by my friend and colleague, David Davis, about


Britain's outside the EU. I expect that 99.9% of conservatives would


subscribe to that but getting to it is more congregated. We need to


unpick this bit by bit. When do we trigger article 50? You need to go


in reverse, like a reverse accession process. The most important thing is


trade negotiations. As I understand that you cannot have a bilateral


agreement unless you have notified Article 50. But you must have some


idea of the time? The sooner the better. When do you think we should


trigger article 50. I think we should trigger at when there is some


clarity as to what the scope of the negotiations that will follow will


be. This is the first big hurdle. Clearly if our European partners do


not want to negotiate with us at all, even informally, prior to


triggering Article 50, that might presents difficulties but from the


point of view of the Prime Minister, she will make up her own mind.


Actually getting some clear idea of what it is that the United Kingdom


is seeking in terms of a future relationship is going to very


important. And I think it is impossible to give a particular time


frame. But I agree with Gisela Stuart. But the time frame has to


work and it has to be done in good time for the 2020 election, so you


can work back from that. I think you can, but I think that she needs, the


Prime Minister needs to be given maximum flexibility about this


because boxing herself in to how she goes about what is going to be one


of the most difficult political transformations this country has


gone through in modern times, I think that requires pragmatism. Does


it require a vote of Parliament to trigger Article 50? Not necessarily.


Let's come back to something. This is not just about our relationship


with the EU, it is our relationship with the rest of the world.


Triggering Article 50 has also been interpreted into how we talk with


other countries. But we can talk with them without concluding deals?


But in terms of negotiations, there comes a point that to make it


meaningful, you have to trigger it. But I want to ask you, do we need a


vote in parliament to trigger Article 50? Undoubtedly. It is a


matter of convention. The idea that a government could take a decision


of such massive importance to the United Kingdom without Parliamentary


approval, it seems to me to be extremely far-fetched. It is not


about law. It is about convention and reality. Do you agree? I can see


the arguments from both sides but I don't think you absolutely have to


do it. We have not got a lot of time, would you vote for triggering


Article 50? Yes. I have made it quite clear that the result of the


referendum must mean that we have to be willing to embark on the process.


I put in one rider to that which is that it seems to me that any


sensible decision has to be made at the time you make it. But that is


not a suggestion that I am going to suddenly decide not to support


triggering Article 50, but triggering Article 50 is an


important political step to withdraw from the EU. One has to keep that in


mind. Do you worry that people like Dominic Grieve are teeing themselves


up to call for a second referendum on the nature of the deal we will


do? I do. I think if there is one thing the European Union is very


good at, it is that when political necessity is in the interest of both


sides, they are capable of rewriting the rules. So the European Union


itself has to look at the problems it faces, and then at what the best


deal is. There is a danger that those who do not like the outcome of


the referendum get themselves hooked on Article 50, rather than saying


that there is a new reality out there and we need to deal with that


in the interests of the United Kingdom. If you could bring it


about, you would have a second referendum, wouldn't you? Not


necessarily. The justification for having a second referendum is if the


circumstances that prevail at the time and justify it because


circumstances that prevail at the time and justify it because there is


some legitimate question to put to the electorate. I am very wary of


circumscribing oneself. The referendum is no different from the


general election in this sense. It is a statement at the time of what


people want in terms of the way policy is taken forward. If people's


opinions change, it would be extraordinary. And I think the only


way you can judge that is by looking and listening to what people are


saying to you. Opinion polls can measure it. Like the opinion polls


that told you your site was going to win the referendum? I am not sure I


ever believe those polls. But they did. If you take a decision on the


base of those polls... But what is the question that one might be


asking. What the public have asked us to do is quite clear. They have


given, by a majority of 1.2 million people, not insubstantial, they have


said they want a fundamental change to the UK's relationship with the EU


and they see that relationship as being one where we are outside of


it. I have to respect that. And we have not got much time so I am going


to interrupt. You have had a good save. Gisela Stuart, here is the


point. There is a lot of people on the Labour side listening to Dominic


Grieve and nodding their heads. Owen Smith, one of the leadership


contenders, he basically wants a second referendum, and you are going


to have to start gearing up for that. Do you fear that this could be


foisted upon you? I think it would be a disastrous step because both


political parties need to search why they were so out of step with the


electorate, particularly the Labour Party. It is a Parliamentary


democracy were we get elected to do a job and that is to either hold the


government to account or to be the government. We have asked them and


they have reflected, in large numbers, they have said that we want


to leave. And they expect us to get on with the job. I am sorry to rush


you but we have been short of time. It's just gone 11.35,


you're watching the Sunday Politics. We say goodbye to viewers


in Scotland and Wales, who leave us now for Sunday Politics Scotland


and Sunday Politics Wales. Coming up here in 20


minutes, the Week Ahead. First though, the Sunday


Politics where you are. Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics


in Northern Ireland. Theresa May has shown the door


to Theresa Villiers, and now her successor as Secretary


of State outlines his vision I think the most important thing now


is that we do move on with that best deal that is possible for Northern


Ireland and the rest of the UK. Also this morning, at the end


of a tumultuous political term, we talk to the First Minister


and the Deputy First Minister to hear their thoughts


on the challenges ahead. And with their take on it all,


I'm joined by journalists The Cabinet cull by


the new Prime Minister, Theresa May, saw her namesake,


Theresa Villiers, replaced by James Brokenshire


as Secretary of State. The South East London MP


faces a host of issues, many of them historical,


but also - and a much more recent development -


the consequences of last month's vote to leave the EU,


and the implications of that So when I spoke to Mr Brokenshire


on Friday, I began by asking him why he thinks he was given


the Northern Ireland job. I think Theresa Villiers did an


incredible job as Secretary of State firms or referred, she has a strong


legacy of issues she took forward, creating great stability and


advocating security and prosperity. I want to continue with that work,


respecting the Belfast Agreement and making progress in relation to the


Stormont House Agreement and fresh start, and I look forward to working


with everyone across communities, reaching out and listening and


taking the best outcome for Northern Ireland. You were a supporter of the


Remain campaign. Do you think that is why you were appointed? You can


see from my approach that I believe in stability, security and


prosperity. They are the guiding factors that have taken me forward


and it is that approach I intend to bring in my new role. I have


experienced from my time dealing with counterterrorism but it is a


real opportunity we have here. We have had the outcome of the


referendum, I campaigned for remains but we now need to get on and chat


that positive course for Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK as we


look to that future outside the EU. The two largest parties here, the


DUP and Sinn Fein, hold different editions on Brexit. How do you hope


to square that circle? It's important I listen carefully and


work with all communities in Northern Ireland, but the UK public


have sent a clear message they want to see the UK outside the EU. It is


important we get on with that task and I will provide a clear voice for


Northern Ireland within the government to set out how we get the


best possible outcome, working with the Executive. I've spoken to the


First Minister and Deputy First Minister and I want to continue


those discussions as we chart the course. But the challenge for you is


that 56% of people in Northern Ireland but to remain, and that's a


different result from the picture across the UK. I campaigned for


Remain but equally I think we need to respect that overall picture


that's been presented from the UK. It's important now that we get on


with that task, having been given that message, to ensure we get the


best possible outcome. I view this as a positive way to approach this,


to make sure we look at those opportunities for trade, injuring


with the two that positive future but unconscious of what this means


for the border. I've had conversations with Frances


Fitzgerald, the Irish Interior Minister, to emphasise the need for


close collaboration so we can ensure we do not see the return of orders


in place. I believe there's a strong commitment from both to achieve that


and that is a priority item I will take forward. Martin McGuinness says


he told the Prime Minister yesterday he want to see the democratically


expressed will of the people here protected I find it away to enable


Northern Ireland to stay in the EU. Is that up for discussion? The


Northern Irish people have given a view as part of the UK perspective


on the referendum and the UK as a whole have underlined a view that we


have that future for the UK outside the EU. I think rather than inject


instability and uncertainty, we now need to complement and ensure we


drive that positive vision for the future and that is the role I want


to play, yes, working with all communities, listening but


delivering on that objective so we can to the future with that positive


sense of what we can and will be outside the EU. But the difficulty


is that we do not have certainty on any of these issues. Local optician


's sake their number 130 is to represent the best interests of


their constituents and they will in mind that the new Prime Minister


came to Northern Ireland to campaign three weeks ago and could not have


been clearer, the interests of Northern Ireland would be best


served by remaining in the EU. There is no point dwelling on the campaign


of the past. But it is for people in Northern Ireland because that is


what best represents people here. The most important thing is that we


do move on with that best deal that is possible for Northern Ireland and


the rest of the UK. That is what we need to put our focus on because we


will look towards those negotiations, toward the powers we


will need to take back from the EU and there will be clear issues from


Northern Ireland in relation to this, which is why the role I have


now I see as important in advocating at the heart of government in terms


of the best interests of Northern Ireland but I will work closely with


the Executive and leaders and politicians from across Northern


Ireland as we take that forward. You mentioned the border. Before the


referendum, to Theresa May said in her view there would have to be


harder border controls in the event of a Brexit vote. Is she right about


that? It is important we maintained the common travel area, which


existed before the UK entered what was then the common market, and that


is a priority, that we do not seem border controls. There is a strong


commitment from the Irish government and ourselves to see that doesn't


happen but that has to be an important priority item for me and I


have had discussions with the Irish government to take this forward to


see that does not happen. We're talking about the free movement of


people, what about customs and trade because the Irish government is


concerned there may need to be border controls as far as that is


concerned? That is damaging for the Republic's economy. Yes, it is also


about business and trade, ensuring we have that prosperity agenda and


it is these issues that we will need to have conversations with the Irish


government as well as the European Commission and member states, and


it's absolutely why it matters that we are taking the clear approach we


are in wanting to protect that Common travel area not just for


people but also goods and services, and it is those issues I will be


taking forward. You mentioned your involvement as a Home Office


minister with counterterrorism. What is your assessment of the incident


terrorist threat here in Northern Ireland and across the rest of the


UK? We have a severe level of threat and one of the priority items that I


am taking forward is to work with the PSNI to ensure that we are


maintaining that position of safety and security. It was an important


part of the work of my predecessor, continuing the work and ensuring we


have those issues of security at the heart of our agenda, but


acknowledging the legacy issues and that is something I am conscious of


in terms equally of working with survivors and victims and taking


forward those important aspects of the Stormont House Agreement and


continuing to see that as a priority item. That item has proved an


obstinate sticking point for a long time and several of your successors


have failed to deal with it. It keeps being kicked into the long


grass. What makes you believe you will sort it out? I do want to, as a


priority, to meet survivors and Vic 's, to see this as an essential


aspect of the work I need to take forward as Secretary of State. There


has been progress made under the agreements but we need to move this


forward, and all I would say is I recognise those legacy issues of the


past very clearly and that is a priority item for me. Sinn Fein said


yesterday there is no need for a Northern Ireland Secretary of state


anymore, the role should be abolished. You think you might be


the last one to pull the job? With all these issues arising from the


referendum, from the security agenda, it now matters into the


future as well as having a Secretary of State at the heart of the UK


armoured to ensure those issues in Northern Ireland are championed and


respected and ensure we get that best possible future deal for


Northern Ireland to drive bought the future prosperity and I'm looking


forward to getting out and meeting people and taking that issue


forward, and being that voice at the heart of government to get that


wasn't a version which I'm determined to do.


The new Secretary of State, James Brokenshire.


Allison, what do you make of what he had to say? He said a lot of words


but not a lot of detail, and that is to separate secretary of States who


have pushed on the movement of goods across the border but we are unable


to get any details of how it will happen. He said the Common travel


area would remain but it's impossible for the transportation of


goods across the border to remain as it is one part of Ireland will still


be in the EU and one part down, and the Irish Vermont will have to


answer to other EU member states, who will not allow things to stay as


they are. He doesn't have details as to how that will work and we are now


further on than we were a couple of months ago. There are still a lot of


unknowns. Yes, a lot of it was fairly land, he could be speaking


very cautiously but one disadvantage he has is that DUP and Sinn Fein


were on different sides of the Brexit debate, but in his favour the


five big parties of government for all in favour of not having a hard


border, Sinn Fein and the DUP have wanted. My instinct remains that


eight deal will be phoned between London and Dublin. But it is not


just about London and Dublin but about Brussels, this will not be a


bilateral deal. Except that but like gut instinct is that they need to


keep that political process going and I think therefore find a way and


Brussels will not want to interfere too much and will find a way of


saying they can live with that. What you think nationalists will make of


James Brokenshire being given the job? Is a bit of an unknown and I


think he was given the job for being a supporter of the Theresa May end


the campaign, you could see in the/ of the Cabinet she rewarded a lot of


people who had been loyal to her, he doesn't have a hardback that follow


in that the last Secretary of State was pretty hands-off so he is not


having to follow on from a great act.


Algae talking to Martin McGuinness any moment but first Arlene Foster


joins me live from her constituency. Do you think James Brokenshire the


clicky man you can do business with? I do want to pay tribute to Theresa


Villiers for the work she has been involved in here in Northern


Ireland. We had a difficult involved in here in Northern


available to us when we needed to speak with her. She will look back


with some satisfaction at her tenure in Northern Ireland, she didn't know


very much about Northern Ireland when she came over here but she


reads having been very much abreast of the issues here and I told her on


Thursday that she will always be welcome here in Northern Ireland. I


am very much looking forward to working with James Brokenshire. He


has an intimate knowledge of the security situation here in Northern


Ireland and indeed from an immigration point of view that will


be helpful in relation to dealing with issues like the Common travel


area and look forward to taking matters forward with him. He was a


remain campaigner and Theresa May was also a Remain campaigner. Does


that make you uncomfortable, and easy I'm nervous about them being


responsible for delivering Brexit in Northern Ireland? No, not at all


because both the Prime Minister and our new Secretary of State has made


it very clear that they respected the view of the UK people and they


intend to take that forward and indeed the Prime Minister has


appointed people who were on the EU exit side of the debate into very


significant roles and I am looking forward to having a television --


telephone conversation with David Davies in terms of how we take


matters forward for Northern Ireland and Liam Fox as well in relation to


international trade. I am not nervous at all and actually very


reassured at the words from may arrange the union and the importance


of two places in the United Kingdom as a whole and I look forward to


helping her to make sure that that vision is sustained because I just


don't care about Northern Ireland, I care about the whole of the union


and I was very pleased to hear her say the same. As we know, 56% of


people in Northern Ireland voted to Remain. Martin McGuinness said at


the end of last week, he told the new Prime Minister his view remains


that the best interest of people here would be served by finding a


place for this to remain part of the EU. You don't want that happened but


the reality is, that argument is going to be brought forward time and


again by people in discussions over the months ahead. Yes, the argument


will be brought forward but the reality is that we are part of the


UK as a member state and that member state has decided by a referendum by


all those people to leave the EU. It doesn't mean that we're leaving


Europe, it means that we are leading the institutions of the European


Union. My job and Martin McGuinness is to get the best you'll possible


for all of the people of Northern Ireland and that's what I'm


determined to do. Certainly, it is something that I'm very focused on


doing. We have a meeting next week to review the work has been carried


out by our officials and is something we will continue to do


over the summer. How does the executive come position on this


because you and Martin McGuinness do not speak with the one voice on this


issue. When James Brokenshire talk about dealing with this issue and


coming to an arrangement with the executive, the executive is


fundamentally divided on the matter? It's not the first time that we have


taken different viewpoints on particular issues but then when we


are faced with having to deal with the reality of the situation, we


deal with that situation and I have no doubt we will find a position for


Northern Ireland as well. I am certainly focused on the fact that I


am there for all of the people of Northern Ireland and not just there


for the people who voted the office or who voted for Brexit, I am there


for ever ready in Northern Ireland and I intend to take forward their


views in any of the negotiations follow. We are leaving the European


Union, that is the reality. Now, what do we do to make the best out


of that for the people of Northern Ireland? The question is, is there a


possibility that some kind of special arrangement could be arrived


at for Northern Ireland which would satisfy you but also satisfy matters


-- Martin McGuinness which is short of Northern Ireland completely


leaving the European Union, because that what -- that is what Nicola


Sturgeon is talking about, she talked of bed again this morning to


and Marr? We start from the very basic part of the whole of the UK is


leading the European Union. Do I think there is a possibility that we


might have a continuing special relationship with our neighbours in


the Republic of Ireland and the whole of Europe, yes, there is a


possibility that may happen. Europe has already given us a special


position and they already know that Northern Ireland, because a very


difficult pass, has had difficulties but the very basic fundamental is


that we are leaving the European Union. If we can have continuing


good relations with the EU, I am content and I think that would be a


very good thing for Northern Ireland to have. It doesn't take away from


the issue that we're leaving. With respect, that is not Martin


McGuinness's position. He does not accept the fundamental point is


Northern Ireland and whatever he chooses to call it, the north or


this place, is leading the EU. He doesn't see it that way and expect


that is what we will hear from him in a couple of moments. It is fine


for you to see that you can force on the changes mind. No, and I can


force them to change his mind on a lot of issues but the reality is


that we are part of the UK and the UK has voted to leave the EU and


that is the reality that we have to deal with now. Should we ignore that


fact or should we deal with that fact? Take magnetically very simple


fact -- view that we deal with that fact for the best in everyone in


Northern Ireland. Worried at first, stations I had after the vote on the


referendum was the very major investor in Northern Ireland and has


questioned the meat was an we still going to remain within the United


Kingdom because that was a critical point him to know. I said we are


still going to be in the UK because that is a very strong part of our


selling point right across the world. Our membership of the UK is


critical and he doesn't agree with that either, that is the reality as


well. We know what Scotland has done to deal with this issue, the task


force, special meetings, Nicola Sturgeon has been to Brussels,


Theresa Villiers has been to Edinburgh. What about the


establishment of some kind of all Ireland forum to discuss the issue


as it affects the Ireland -- island of Ireland? It is not just about


what happens in Northern Ireland but huge ramifications for the public of


Ireland as well. It does have big implications for the pub Ireland. We


discussed those implications at the North-South ministerial Council. We


had a very good discussion and we will continue those discussions.


There is absolutely no need for another institution to discuss these


issues. I can lift the phone and speak to the Foreign Minister in any


of the ministers any time I want. There is no need for another


institution to deal with these issues. Thank you very much indeed


for joining us. Theresa May clearly doesn't agree


with Sinn Fein that there's no need Does James Brokenshire


look like someone you'll We will have to work with them as


there is no Secretary of State for the knife. Clearly, the last


Secretary of State that we had was a cheerleader for both austerities and


for Brexit. In my opinion, she didn't stand up to the interests of


all the people of the north so I hope that James Brokenshire will


recognise how damaging the austerity agenda was and how it should end.


But also recognise the wish of the people of the north expressed in the


referendum. 56% in favour of staying in Europe and see that our future in


Europe must be respected by the British Government and it is


significant that Theresa May in the aftermath of her meeting with Nicola


Sturgeon in Scotland indicated that she wouldn't trigger Article 50


unless all parts, what she be described as the United Kingdom, I


satisfied. We are not satisfied. Effectively, that hand the veto to


Scotland and to us in the north, then we would use it and I think I


can deliver a vote in the assembly which rejects any attempt to drag us


against our will out of Europe. He's made it clear that,


whatever his views on Brexit before the referendum,


the UK is leaving the EU and that means Northern Ireland


is coming out too. That much, he says,


is not up for discussion. I think it is early days and given


that they haven't yet triggered article 50 and when they do so,


probably sometime towards the latter end of this year or the early part


of next year, or for all we know, a year after that, they are


effectively on the issue of the single market and the whole issue of


free travel for European nationals. This British Government is involved


in a head-on collision with the European Union and who knows what


the consequences of all of that could be. One thing I do know from


talking to different interest groups across the course of the period from


the referendum vote until now is that there is a line within a


business committee, within the committee and voluntary sector,


large sections of the farming and food industry, within our


universities about this decision. I think the fact that the reason they


went to Scotland to meet with Nicola Sturgeon was a clear recognition of


the fact that as she says going forward, she wants to maintain the


union and talks about what she caused the United Kingdom but the


reality is there is little united about the UK. Scotland sees their


future in Europe, we in the north sea our future in Europe, Wales is


very divided on the issue and I think this British Government has to


take account of that. We just heard Arlene Foster say they will be an


executive meeting this week for you review some of the work that's been


done by your senior officials. We heard from James Brokenshire that


the Government will want the year the executive's position as far as


these Brexit negotiations are concerned in future. You have


demonstrated this amply for busy today, you and Arlene Foster do not


speak with one voice on this issue. How do we square the circle? Head of


the executive movies issue forward when the two people heading up the


executive do not agree what happens next? I think what will dictate how


all of us move forward in the time ahead is how the British Government


determines to deal with Article 50 and whether or not they are going to


trigger it. In the event that we find ourselves any situation where


they are prepared to drag us out of the EU against our will. She has


made it abundantly clear, Theresa Villiers, means that -- Brexit. She


is the Prime Minister. -- Theresa May. James Brokenshire has just made


it clear he agrees with that 100% as well. What is clear that all of the


events we have seen in Britain over the cause of the last number of


weeks is that the blitz glassed others in London and Westminster and


Downing Street have been in turmoil, they have been in chaos. Such a


debacle of politics that this island has not seen for 50 odd years. Who


knows happen in the time ahead. One thing is for sure and I accept there


is absolute, Arlene Foster and I as leaders of the executive and charged


with the responsibility to lead our people forward since the last


assembly election, we have a responsibility to work out together


how we can move forward and I am willing to do these discussions with


Arlene Foster 's and we already have these discussions with her. We have


to deal with this very responsibly and iron tends to be very


responsible but at the same time, I think that Arlene Foster has to dig


head of the fact that Theresa May did clearly state in the aftermath


of a meeting with Nicola Sturgeon in Scotland that she wasn't prepared to


trigger article 50 unless all others were content. Well, we are not


content. Do you take anything positive from James Brokenshire's


posit -- commented me that there is, in his view, a hard border need


between north and south and the Common travel area will remain in


place? Are those not things to be positive about from your


prospective? I am totally and absolutely opposed to any sort of


border. It would represent a very grievous undermining of the Good


Friday Agreement. I do appreciate this comment but at the same time


prior to her election as British Prime Minister Theresa May made it


clear in an interview which she done in the north that she did envisage a


hard border in the event that Northern Ireland was to leave. She


is not the only British senior politician to have said that over


the course of the referendum debate and I know a lot of outrageous


things were said during the referendum debate but we have to be


cognisant of the fact that the major issue was swung it for the lead foot


was immigration. The racist you kept and the right-wing of the


Conservative Party actually won the vote on the basis of that argument.


That really does pose a position for us in terms of the ability of EU


nationals throughout Europe who can travel to the south of Ireland at


any time, they can also travel here for the moment, they will argue that


there should be a hard border and I think that would be a huge mistake.


Ukip and members of its say they are not racist, but one last question,


James Brokenshire had a past role dealing with counterterrorism in the


Home Office. How do you feel about that? The great responsibility to do


with people who want to plunge us back to the past, Republicans and


loyalists, the people who deal with that are the gardai and the PSNI and


they have been successful in the watering countless attempts to kill


people -- the watering. We will leave it there.


Martin McGuinness in Clones, thank you.


Now let's take a look back at a momentous week gone past in 60


There was a swift changeover at Number 10, but before leaving office


David Cameron got some last-minute careers advice. The England old


team, there is top gear... There is even, across the big pond...


Fascinating suggestions for future jobs, most sound even harder than


this. After a trip to the Palace the new trimester emphasised her party's


full name, the Conservative and unionist party. We believe in the


union, the precious bond between England, Scotland, Wales and


Northern Ireland. Another tour Reza lost her job, and despite the damage


caused by Eleventh Night bonfires, the Twelfth was generally hailed as


a success. This was about celebration. It has gone well and


all seems well for the future. And Alex Kane and Allison Morris


are here for a final word. We will come on to the conversations


there with the First and Deputy First Ministers in a second, but to


a cup which to Reza make, what do you think we can expect from the new


Tory administration there? I think we will see no move away from the


far right we had under the previous bad deflation, Martin McGuinness


talk about austerity but there will be no backtracking. No end to the


austerity agenda although George Osborne is not in 11 Downing Street?


No, to Reza make was always take on security and removing aspects of the


European right back from British law, so I think we will see a


toughening in that regard. The you agree, Alex? I think what Cameron


had was a centre leading to the right, to Theresa May come this is


centre right verging on to quite hard right-wing and social economic


staff. What about the justice stuff when she was standing on the steps?


A lot of what she said about the union was also tied into working


class scan the chances who voted Labour, she is getting a soft


landing because she wants them on board. Let's talk about James


recruiter, Arlene Foster and Martin McGuinness. Where is the common


ground? There is virtually none, Martin McGuinness refers to Scotland


there any different position from us. The SNP has a strong mandate,


most people are singing off the same hymn sheet. We are being controlled


by the coalition with two parties who have conflict in views on how


Northern Ireland will post it said and one doesn't even want a Brexit.


I cannot see how we will find any common ground. The two editions were


in sharp relief. We had Arlene Foster saying the fundamental point


was we were leaving the EU and Martin McGuinness saying we were not


necessarily. There is no common ground whatsoever. They most both be


right for slightly the front reasons. You had better explain


yourself darts the Reza make said -- Theresa May said Brexit was Brexit,


and Nicola Sturgeon said we needed a UK approach before we trickle


Article 50, she was asked if that meant she had a veto. It depends if


to Theresa May is serious. People say she was always a soft Remainer


but I don't believe that. I would be surprised if we're out of the use


in. We know there is an executive meeting this week. Of these


important conversations are happening in a vacuum with the


Assembly not meeting until the beginning of sub timbre. It seems


bizarre that are going through a bit of turmoil that will affect our


lives and our children's lives for years to come and all the


politicians are on holiday. What do you think of the fact that


politicians are not at their desks, everyone deserves a holiday but this


is a time of huge upheaval. The times are set on expect patients


that we would vote to stay in the EU, I think we will see


announcements in the next few weeks. How do you see things unfolding? I


don't think Article 50 will be triggered soon, to Theresa May will


need to find her feet. That's it from us for this political


year but we will be back in September with our full range


of programmes - The View, Sunday Politics, Stormont Today


and Inside Politics. Until then, have a lovely summer


break and, from everyone


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