17/12/2017 Sunday Politics Northern Ireland

Morning, everyone,

and welcome to the Sunday Politics.

I'm Sarah Smith.

And for the last time in 2017,

this is your guide to the big

political stories making the news

this Sunday morning.

Theresa May says she's silenced

the doubters by securing a deal

for Britain in the first phase

of the Brexit negotations.

Now attention turns to the much

bigger task of deciding our future

relationship with the EU.

She'll be discussing that

with her cabinet this week,

but with so many huge unresolved

questions about life after Brexit,

can we possibly expect

seasonal goodwill to break out

across the Tory party

and the country?

And I'm here at stunning Warwick

Castle to find out whether people

Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics

in Northern Ireland.

It's been a year dominated

by negotiations -

at Stormont and in Brussels.

But as the Brexit negotiations

move forward, I'll ask

Sinn Feins Michelle O'Neill

what hope she sees

of a Stormont return?

Join me in half an hour.

All that coming up in the programme,

our final show of the year.

Think of it as

our early Christmas present,

one I'm afraid you can't

take back to the shops.

And joining me today,

Fleet Street's answer

to Santa's little helpers,

Tom Newton Dunn,

Camilla Tominey and Steve Richards.

Well, we began the year

talking about Brexit,

and we'll finish talking about...

you've guessed it, Brexit.

And there have been big developments

in just the past week,

which saw Theresa May go from hero

to zero, to somewhere in between.

Seasonal goodwill spread

through the Conservative Party

on Monday, when Theresa May reported

back to Parliament on her deal to

move Brexit talks on to phase two.

When people like me, Brexiteers,

look at the alternative,

namely the Labour government,

a Labour government staying

in the single market forever

and having no control over

immigration, it's amazing

how our minds are concentrated

in support of the Prime Minister.

Across these benches,

complete unanimity

in congratulating the Prime Minister

on securing this agreement.

That Christmas cheer

did not last long.

On the eve of the European

summit to ratify the deal,

the EU Withdrawal Bill was

back in the Commons.

The Government avoided defeat

on several amendments,

but then came former

Attorney General Dominic Grieve

and his call for MPs

to have a meaningful vote

on the final Brexit deal.

Brexit Secretary David Davis

tried to head off the rebellion

with a letter to backbenchers.

In the final hour,

there was a last-ditch offer.

It wasn't enough.

It's too late. I'm sorry.

You cannot, you cannot treat

the House in this fashion.

The Prime Minister suffered

her first defeat on government

business of her premiership.

The ayes to the right, 309.

The noes to the left, 305.

Labour were delighted.

The Prime Minister tried a power

grab, tried to push through the EU

Withdrawal Bill without proper

Parliamentary scrutiny and take

powers away from Parliament.

Parliament resisted tonight.

Brexit supporters were enraged.

One rebel, Stephen Hammond,

was promptly sacked

as vice-chairman of the party.

It was an embarrassment

for Theresa May, not a fatal blow.

On Thursday, she arrived

in Brussels sounding upbeat.

I'm disappointed with the amendment,

but actually the, EU Withdrawal Bill

is making good progress

through the House of Commons,

and we're on course

to deliver on Brexit.

She was applauded by leaders

of the 27 EU member states,

rewarded on Friday with a tweet

from EU Council President Donald

Tusk confirming they had agreed

to move on to phase two

of the talks.

"Congratulations,

Theresa May," he said.

Mrs May can't put her feet up

for holidays just yet.

The Cabinet will meet this week

to discuss what the future

relationship with the EU will

look like for the first time.

No one's expecting them all to be

singing from the same carol sheet.

But on Friday,

a fresh rebellion over the EU

Withdrawal Bill was headed off,

so peace on earth, or at least

within the Conservative

Party, reigns for now.

But how much longer can that harmony

exist within the Cabinet? I will

talk to the panel about next week's

discussion on the future end state

of our relations with the EU,

because it will be discussed in

Cabinet for the first time. Theresa

May writing in the papers today, she

proved the doubters wrong, is she

right?

She did in the sense that

many people thought she wouldn't get

through the first phase. They found

words to bind all parties together.

That's what she did in the first

phase. She is right in that sense.

The second phase of which this

Cabinet meeting this week will be

just an early tiptoeing on the

Touraine, it will be much more

mountainous and difficult. I suspect

the Cabinet meeting will be merely

exploring some of the themes, and

there will be, for sure, no

resolution as to what the

government's final position will be.

We have seen some themes explored

this week, Philip Hammond yesterday

in China talking about staying

within the EU rules and regulations

during the transition. We have Boris

Johnson in the papers today setting

out a vision for by virgin further

from the EU then people like Hammond

would like. Will that be aired in

Cabinet?

Are they going to be

singing from the same carol sheet...

Will they sing from the same

spreadsheet in relation to Philip

Hammond's desires? We note Boris

Johnson speaking today in the Sunday

Times, talking about the notion of

eventual self-governance and a

diverging. You have also got Michael

Gove wanting, during the transition

period, for us to be out of the

common agricultural policy, Albert

the Common fisheries policy, that

will be a difficult issue for them

to discuss. We are not even getting

onto the end trade deal, and which

direction do we want to go in? The

Prime Minister has made clear she

wants Canada plus model as opposed

to a Norway style of agreement,

which to be fair to her, she pointed

out in Florence. She said an EEA

agreement was not what was agreed,

and we don't want to be rule takers.

There is a lot to play for. Two

Cabinet meetings, one of the

subcabinet, the war committee, and

the one on Tuesday following the

parliament really address.

The

papers have gone on the idea that

Boris is setting out a different

vision of Britain after Brexit, but

is it different to Theresa May in

her Florence Beach?

Not really. This

is no different to what Boris has

said, the Sunday before Christmas,

there had to be a row -- Florence

speech. This is well established

positions, we know what they all

think, and we have all been saying

for a year and a half since the

referendum that am at some stage, it

would have to be crossed. There has

to be a big choice between a

diverging or harmonisation, because

so far, the EU has been binary about

it. It won't be solved in Cabinet

this week or next month, my bet is,

yet again, they will come up with a

fudged to present to the EU, or

Cabinet will fall apart and half of

them will have to leave. Eventually,

it will have to be grasped in the

autumn when the EU say, "You either

have to defecate or get off the

potty, because this is what is in

front of you." The third option was

interesting, at the summit on

Friday, something interesting

happened, which was the EU blinked,

they said, "Move on to trade and

transition." But we are not quite

ready to do trade. We are incredibly

United to begin with, now we don't

know what we want. We have three

months before trade starts in March

for everybody, for the British

Governor, to influence the EU 27 in

their thinking, and come up with a

great third Way, which is cake and

eat it.

And will be considerably

more corrugated than what we have

done already. Stay there, we will

come back to you during the course

of the programme.

Well, we can speak now

to the Conservative MP

for mid-Bedfordshire.

She ruffled some feathers this week

when she said that pro-European

Tories who rebelled

on the EU Withdrawal Bill

should be deselected.

Thank you for joining us. Can we

talk first about the transition, or

implementation period, two years

after we leave the EU, a number of

your colleagues have expressed a

number of serious concerns about the

idea we will be following EU rules

and regulations during that period,

how worried are you about that?

I

think everybody's concerned about

that. The important thing is, we get

this period, this transition period,

through and done as quickly as

possible. Therefore, we have to

reach agreement. The reason why it

needs to be done as quickly as

possible is because it is in

Britain's interests, it is in the

interest of business, who required

stability and security, and

confidence moving forward. We've do

need to get to this position as

quickly as possible. The rebels from

last week are going to have to

explain why, if they don't think we

should leave the Commons fishery

policy, why that would not be in

Britain's interest. There is a lot

up for debate going forward.

The

Chancellor made it clear that he

would be replicating the status quo

during this transition period. That

doesn't mean leaving the common

fisheries policy or die vaulting in

any way from EU rules. -- by

vaulting.

During his budget speech,

he himself talk about the uniqueness

of Britain. It took about my own

constituency and area, which will

become a tech corridor. So he has

highlighted areas where we can

divert, which is in high-tech. We

can do it in that area, we can do it

in my constituency, like art we do

it in other areas...

The point he

was talking about was, yesterday, he

said, we would be subject to all old

rules and regulations during that

period.

It also depends how long

that period is going to be. Most

reasonable and sensible people can

accept a period of time when we need

to have those discussions, and when

we will abide by those rules. The

problem is, what we don't want to

see is Brexit constantly kicked into

the long grass as we go further and

further forward, and Brexit never

seems to be actually happening.

There has to be an endgame.

Everybody wants to see that. If we

can't see that quickly enough, then

we do have to have these unique and

these individual situations where we

may need to pull out of certain

things sooner.

Talking about the

endgame, that is what the Cabinet

will discuss this week, we know

there will be a debate inside there,

and people like Philip Hammond the

Chancellor will argue that we stay

closely aligned to EU rules and

regulations even after we have

finally left, how worried are you

about those so-called soft

Brexiteers prevailing in Cabinet?

Gosh, do you know... I'm not sure

they will prevail. I trust Theresa

May, I trust David Davies, I trust

Amber Rudd. I trust all of the

people in Cabinet to reach an

agreement. And because what they

will be doing is reaching an

agreement in Britain's interest and

the interest of Parliament, and the

interest of Brexit. All of those

people in Cabinet stood on a

manifesto in 2017 to deliver Brexit,

and they have to do that in a way

which the British people, who

democratically exercised their vote,

would like to see. Otherwise they

will lose the support of the British

public.

You say you trust the

Cabinet to deliver Brexit, do you

trust all of your Tory MP colleagues

to do so?

Well, I hope so. Can I

just say, I know the rebels are

being lauded as he arose from whence

they not, can I tell you who the

real heroes are in all of this, they

are the Conservative MPs, not the

Labour MPs, but the Conservative MPs

who believed in Remain, who

campaigned for Remain, during the EU

referendum, but stood on a manifesto

to deliver Brexit, and they are the

people who are the unsung heroes,

who are backing the government and

backing Theresa May, and doing so

because they know that is their duty

to do so. Some of the rebels could

perhaps learn a lesson from some of

their Remain colleagues, who know

the right thing to do is to deliver

Brexit, because that was voted for a

democratic mandate.

You are being

quite Conser Liege reef, --

consulate tree, but you did at the

time tweaked that they should be

deselected and never allowed to

stand as Tory MPs again, have you

changed your mind about that?

Gosh... I don't know if I have

changed my mind, but what I meant at

the time was, most of these rebels

voted for the private members' Bill

to have a referendum. They stood on

a manifesto in 2015 to deliver that

referendum. And then they stood

again on a manifesto in 2017 to

implement Brexit. I think, to go

back on those promises, that they

were elected to honour, it is

something for their associations to

discuss and consider...

But... Have

they gone back on those promises?

They would say they still want to

intimate Brexit, they just want

Parliament to have control over that

rather than the executive.

No, I

don't believe they do. I believe

what they have deliberately tried to

do right from the moment of the

referendum result is to frustrate

and delay Brexit, and I believe this

is a very active tactic they are

using. No, I do believe they are

honouring the promise they stood on

in the 20 Zinedine manifesto. They

should put trust in David Davies and

the Prime Minister. Rather than make

life difficult for the Prime

Minister when she is leaving to go

to Brussels for further

negotiations, trust the Prime

Minister and assist the Prime

Minister. That is what they have

been elected to do. There is a

Conservative government that has

been elected on a manifesto to

deliver Brexit.

From the beginning, they have gone

out of their way to delay and

frustrate this, and they need to

stop doing it.

Anna Soubry, one of

the rebels, writing in the Mail on

Sunday, says that calls for rebels

to be deselected mean the Tories now

have their own blue momentum

movement.

I do, I am sure he does.

You

frequently voted with your

conscience, you voted against Tory

primaries does in the past and

rebelled against the whip, why is it

different?

I voted many times

against the government, I am a

self-declared rebel, but I do it at

a time, you have to choose your

rebellions carefully. What I would

say is different now is that we have

a Marxist government knocking on the

door. We have a full mandate from

the British public to deliver

Brexit, they voted for it in the

referendum. These MPs stood on that

promise in 2017, today is very

different. What happened on

Wednesday night was the rebels put a

spring in the step of Labour MPs.

The party in Jeremy Corbyn's office

could be heard in the car park

outside. It has made life difficult

for us to keep that Marxist

government out of power eventually.

They have helped Labour MPs find

their mojo one is again. We don't

want that to happen. We have an

important situation that has not

been seen since wartime. The

response ability was to support the

government.

Nadeem, thank you for

talking to us this morning.

We can speak now to one

of the leading pro-EU

Conservative MPs, Ken Clarke.

He's in Nottingham.

Thank you for joining us this

warning.

Glad to be here.

I hope you

could hear Nadine Dorries, she says

rebels, you and others, but voted

against the government on Wednesday,

are trying to reverse Brexit.

You

have succeeded in getting into all

of this personal stuff, but I do

think she is aiming it at me. I am a

member of the government that led us

into Europe and the single market, I

did not vote in the referendum, and

my constituents have no doubts about

my views. The 20 Zinedine manifesto

was produced after I had been

adopted as a candidate, no one sent

me a copy, and I haven't ever seen a

copy of it. Let's get back to the

big issues, which are how do we

preserve the future prosperity of

this country? How do we preserve a

leading position in world affairs to

look after our interest? What is the

best thing to do for the interests

of our children and our

grandchildren? All of these other

things, the right-wing newspaper

rubbish,, it is trying to get a Tory

equivalent of momentum.

Do you think

that the way to preserve the things

you talk about is to put reverse

Brexit?

I don't think we can do

that. I was in the small minority

when I voted against in -- invoking

Article 50. The party is moving

towards Brexit, the country will see

Brexit. Suddenly turning Brexit into

a proposal, we have big lorry parks,

customs officers, so different

market regulations, you know,

different rules about backing

cleaner noise, that was not what the

referendum was about. More

importantly, it will do great damage

to our economy, it could cost

thousands of jobs and make the

country much mess less attractive.

We have now got to try to reach an

agreement that produces a sensible,

sensible political and economic

future for this country in the real

world, not in the slightly childish

world of knock about politics.

How

confident are you the Cabinet will

come to that compromise when they

start to discuss things this week?

We keep having public statements,

which are rather alarming, but I am

reasonably confident that they can.

What are you alarmed by in the

public state was?

You are trying to

get me to go on about Boris, out of

line with what apply Mr has done.

But the Chancellor has a duty to

actually look after the British

economy, to make sure business is

not deterred from coming to this

country, to make sure we keep our

markets in Europe, and in the rest

of the world, as intact as we can. I

think the Cabinet will rally around

that.

Theresa May made pretty clear

in her Florence speech that what we

will leave the supermarket, the

customs unit, and there fetch you

ruled out the post Brexit future?

Lancaster House was the first time

anyone had interpreted, anyone in

authority, had interpreted the

referendum result to mean that. It

does give rise to problems. What

they have now got to address is the

problems that arise. It started with

last week, we suddenly faced

Ireland, which nobody had mentioned,

which is an insult to the people of

Northern Ireland and Republic of

Island, really we agreed then, we

must keep the border open with

regulatory convergence on both

sides. It applies to Dover and

Folkestone, and we won't get

planning permission for the lorry

parks we would need if we rush on

abandoning the single market in

March, 2019, we have brought coming.

Let's not into Gibraltar. It would

make the Irish problems looked like

a picnic. You will have a lot of

adage businesses wondering where on

earth Britain is going unless we now

interpret policy of the Florence

speech and move on from the Florence

speech, which was a big move

forward, move on from the fact that

we finally settled these three quite

simple issues that had to be settled

about our withdrawal, which could

have been months ago had it not been

for the troubles.

We need to get onto a sensible

economic future worked out by people

prepared to read the brief and who

know something about trade,

investment and business in the

modern, globalised economy.

With the

vote last week, in which Parliament

now gets a meaningful say on the

Brexit deal, do you interpret that

to mean that parliament could send

the Prime Minister back to Brussels

to renegotiate a different deal if

Parliament doesn't like it, so your

views have to be taken into account

with the final deal?

Politics in

this country is based on all

governments having to take the views

of Parliament into account. It's

difficult when Parliament is a small

majority where there is confusion,

because the issue cuts across party

lines, that makes it more difficult,

but it was a mistake to invoke the

royal prerogative, a mistake to try

and avoid Parliament revoked. In the

end, this is determining our future

for the next generation or two on

difficult issues that Parliament

will have to approve before

government can get a deal. That

should strengthen Theresa May and

David Davis's hands in the

negotiations because, just like the

other 27 negotiators, they will have

to say that they can't deliver

things which they can't get past

their own parliament.

It's been

reported this morning that Heidi

Allen, a Conservative MP who

rebelled against the government last

week, is facing threats of

deselection. You are perfectly safe

in your constituency, are you? What

do you think of the other rebels

being deselected?

I don't think my

constituents have any doubts about

my views, not all of my association

agree with me, but I have never

fallen out with anybody personally

because of political differences. I

think this is all nonsense. It's

caused by the rubbish that keeps

appearing in the right-wing

newspapers, which have completely

lost their heads over the whole

thing. It is totally absurd to say

this is helping Jeremy Corbyn, it is

weakening Theresa May and all the

rest of it. Here we are, three days

after the vote took place, and

Theresa May is no weaker and she was

after that. Jeremy Corbyn is not

marching towards Downing Street.

What we voted for is a Parliamentary

accountability of the government.

Nothing to do with blocking Brexit,

and it is utterly idiotic few of our

association members in various parts

of country start interpreting this

as the start of some sort of purge

of backbench members of conscience.

Eurosceptics have been voting

against the government for the last

30 years, and nobody on my side of

the argument has ever gone round

saying they should be expelled from

the party and sent to darkness. It

is a broad church, it is a

free-market party with a strong

social conscience, and it has been a

pro-European party for the first 50

years of my membership.

Thank you

for talking to us, and I'll come

back to the panel. He says the Prime

Minister was not weakened by that

vote, and neither was Jeremy Corbyn

emboldened. Is he right?

Not quite

right. What the vote did was point

out what we all secretly knew. She

wasn't further weakened by it, she

was weakened by the general election

result. She was always going to be

in this predicament without a

majority. That vote reminded

everybody of how weak she is and

will continue to be as this entire

Parliament passes.

The accusation

from people like Nadine Dorries is

that this helps Labour and

intentionally offers in a Corbyn

government is any truth in that?

There was a perception of truth

because of how close he got to

number ten, which took us by

surprise on election night, apart

from you, who got it right. But

equally I think there was a sense

with Theresa May's own popularity,

and recent polling is said that the

Conservatives are gaining an Jeremy

Corbyn, which is perhaps explained

by the fact that people are unclear,

despite numerous explanations by

Keir Starmer, shadow Brexit

Secretary, on the Labour opposition.

They appear to have backtracked on

their manifesto and want close

alignment, if not remaining in the

supermarket and customs union, which

is anathema to anybody who voted for

Brexit an Jeremy Corbyn and Labour,

and equally I think it's interesting

that, once we take ourselves out of

Westminster bubble, some of the talk

on the streets about Theresa May's

apparent weakness is misplaced. A

lots of people think she has shown

resilience and they appreciate she

is in a difficult political mess, in

terms of her lack of a larger

majority and the rest of it, but I

think she was pity David after

coughing gate, and I think that has

turned into grudging admiration for

the fact that she has defied the

people who said it would be

impossible and managed to get to the

second phase of negotiations.

I

think what we got with the vote was

recognition that this is a hung

parliament. In a hung Parliament,

government get defeated. . This is

new to us because we had the

coalition which a majority and the

Labour and Thatcher landslide eras,

but in the 70s, the key moments that

Labour government defeated again and

again, this one will. It's not that

she is inherently weak as a

personality, she is just in a weak

position. There was a majority

forming. It probably could have been

bigger. In favour of that amendment

last week. It will happen again

because the House of Commons is in a

different place on Europe than she

is.

Briefly.

What was fascinating is

that Nadine Dorries and those of her

like said, you weakened her, nobody

will take seriously in Brussels, but

she went and she got love oned. It

had an inverse effect. -- love oned.

Using weakness as a strength.

And you can find more Brexit

analysis and explanation on the BBC

website, at bbc.co.uk/brexit.

Let's turn now to Labour.

As 2017 draws to a close they've got

plenty to feel upbeat about,

although they could have to wait

another four and a half years

for a chance to form a government.

The party says it's ready,

but do the public agree?

Elizabeth Glinka took the entirely

unscientific moodbox

to the constituency of Warwick

and Leamington, a former

Conservative seat snatched

by Labour in June.

This week, Theresa May

faced her first defeat

in the House of Commons -

and, if you speak to Labour

activists, they will tell

you a general election could be just

around the corner, and they are more

than ready to form a government.

So we've come here to

Warwick Castle to ask people,

is Labour ready or not ready?

No, definitely not.

Why not?

I don't like the Labour leader.

It's the first time I've been asked

about politics here in the castle.

I think they are ready.

Absolutely not ready.

They don't seem to have any strong

policies and every time you hear

them arguing against the Government

they are just negative.

There's not a positive,

constructive response.

I came from a country

which was Communist for a long time.

It terrifies me when I hear

some of their ideas.

Although I don't like

the other guys, too.

LAUGHTER.

Would you say the Labour Party

is ready for government?

Yes.

I'll take that as a yes.

Sorry, Jeremy.

I remember British Rail

before it was privatised.

It was dreadful.

I would say ready.

I think that the Tory party

are totally focused on Brexit.

They are not looking at any

of the other problems,

the NHS, housing, transport,

everything else that's

going on in the country,

and I think the Labour Party

would look at those other issues.

Not ready.

Not ready.

They're not clear on their policies

and a lot of infighting,

so I just don't think they are ready

to be in charge yet.

Thank you for this.

That's OK.

There is never a knight

around when you need one.

I'd go with ready.

I think, from what we've got

at the moment, I think

give them a chance.

OK, let's go for it then.

Not ready, maybe because I don't

think the Shadow Chancellor

is at all suitable.

They can't do any worse

than what we've already got

at the moment, so I think time

for a change.

Would you say the Labour Party is

ready or not ready for government?

Interesting.

Not ready.

Why is that?

Not ready, because they are still

bickering amongst themselves.

Because I am fed up

with the Conservative government.

I feel we need a change.

OK, so why did you go for not ready?

I just don't think they have

what it takes just yet.

Well, only eight more

sleeps till Christmas,

and I'm afraid Jeremy Corbyn may not

like his present this year.

The visitors here to Warwick Castle

say that Labour is not

ready for government.

Right, better get the rest

of these presents delivered.

Elizabeth Glinka with

the decidedly unscientific

moodbox at Warwick Castle.

Well, I'm joined now

by the shadow justice

secretary Richard Burgon,

he's in Leeds.

Good morning.

Good morning, Sarah.

We were told in the summer that

Jeremy Corbyn reportedly said he

would be Prime Minister by

Christmas. It doesn't look as though

it is likely to happen. Will he be

in Number Ten by next Christmas, do

you think?

Who knows, all we can say

is we will be ready for another

general election when it take place

and we are ready to go the full

course is that needs to be the case

as well.

In order to be ready for an

election, it will be important to

have a clear position on Brexit, and

in fairness the Labour opposition

there has been some clarity in the

last couple of weeks on bad, and it

appears the wants to stay much

closer to EU rules and regulations

than the Conservative Party.

What

Labour wants to do is to reach a

position where we have a good

relationship with the EU has Brexit,

because Britain is leaving the

European Union and Labour accepts

and respect the outcome of the

referendum, and we want a post

Brexit Britain where the economy and

jobs is put first, not fixated on

structures. That is the end goal we

want to reach, will return as they

good trading relationship with the

EU and the rest of the world. --

where Britain has a good trading

relationship. And we want to protect

environmental rights and workers as

well.

The Tories would say they are

interested in those things as well

but there has to be a structure

around this when we have an in-state

relationship with the EU. Is it fair

to say you want a closer

relationship than the government is

arguing for?

We have set out the

vision of what we want in terms of

Britain post Brexit. The problem

that Theresa May as with negotiating

is that, at the same time as

negotiating with Brussels, she has

two negotiate with her backbenchers

and the extreme caucus in the

Conservative Party who are

ideological fixated on structures

and the ECJ, and that raised -- that

has really weakened her, as we saw

in Parliament.

We will have to have

answers on those questions. If you

say you are ready to form a

government within the next year,

Labour needs clear answers on these

questions about whether or not you

would ever consider a continuing

role for the European Court of

Justice, for instance.

We see it as

common sense that the ECJ should

play a role in the transition

period...

After that?

We are open

minded, because every trade deal

these institutions to protect and

oversee that deal. Seems like common

sense.

Tom Watson has said that he

wouldn't rule out a second

referendum on Brexit, and Jeremy

Corbyn a few weeks ago in Lisbon

said something similar. Would you be

in favour of a second referendum?

Labour isn't calling for a second

referendum.

But Tom Watson said he

wouldn't run it out.

It could be the

case that Theresa May caves

wouldn't run it out.

It could be the

case that Theresa May caves in and

starts asking for another

referendum, I doubt that we are not

in government I can say clearly we

are not arguing for a second

referendum, and I think that was

made clear on Andrew Marr earlier

today by Diane Abbott.

Whatever the

end relationship between the UK and

EU, is it important you and to

Labour that we see lower levels of

immigration from the EU?

We want to

put the economy and jobs first and,

if you listen to the public sector

and the NHS, the care sector, they

are clear that the role EU migrants

have played and are playing is

essential to growth, essential to

the private sector, but also

essential to our NHS as well.

That

sounds like you don't want lower

levels of immigration after we

leave.

We want to put jobs and

economy first, we want fair and

reasonably managed migration, but

free movement as it is will end when

Britain leaves the EU and we will

need a new arrangement that is fair

and reasonably managed. We want to

put and the public economy first.

The Conservatives have a bad track

record of making headline grabbing

false promises on immigration but

never meeting those targets.

You are

an enthusiastic supporter of Richard

Leonard, the new leader of the

Scottish Labour Party. You have

called him an inspiring socialist in

the past. Are you hoping the UK

Labour manifesto will copy some of

his rather more radical Labour

ideas?

It is for the Scottish Labour

Party to decide Scottish policy.

But

do you want to some of his ideas

replicated nationwide?

We agree on

most things, and Richard Leonard

supported the UK wide manifesto in

2011, he enthusiastically supported

the minimum wage rise, taking

railways back into public ownership.

What about the idea for a one-off

wealth tax, 1% of the total wealth

of the richest 10% being paid?

That

is a matter for the Scottish Labour

Party.

But would you like the same

thing adopted nationwide?

Our

manifesto isn't decided by Shadow

Cabinet members making declarations

on the Sunday Politics.

But you are

allowed a view.

Our manifesto was

reached on a consensus basis, not

only the Shadow Cabinet and

Parliamentary Labour Party but with

members all over the country. We are

now the biggest political party in

Western Europe. It will be for me to

be making policy decisions live on

air. We believe in the politics of

consensus and collectivism and we

will be taking that forward with our

next manifesto.

Some viewers may not

know that, as well as being a Labour

MP, you present a heavy metal show

on your local radio station, so we

have a click to listen to.

The new album of Vallenfyre

is called Fear Those Who Fear Him,

and it's so heavy, it feels painful

to listen to, in a good way.

Let's see if you agree.

This song is by Vallenfyre and it's

called An Apathetic Grave.

METAL GUITAR RIFF.

MUSIC: An Apathetic

Grave by Vallentyre.

Clearly, you are a big heavy metal

band. Jeremy Corbyn told the NME you

listen to everything from Mahler to

piped music, but he has never

mentioned heavy metal. Can you

introduce him to some of your

favourite tracks?

I could do. Jeremy

has been on the front page of

Kerrang, and what was nice was that

he didn't pretend to like heavy

metal. It's good he set that. Far

more refreshing than when David

Cameron used to pretend to like the

Smiths.

It's coming up to 11:40,

you're watching the Sunday Politics.

And, remember this?

We have agreed that the government

should call a general election.

You're joking...

Not another one!

When we come back, we'll be taking

a look back at the year in politics,

and what a year it's been.

Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics

in Northern Ireland.

It's been a year dominated

by negotiations -

at Stormont and in Brussels.

As progress is made in Belgium,

we'll hear from Sinn Fein's northern

leader about the prospect

of progress here.

The Brexit talks finally moved

to the next phase this week -

and in Brussels I asked

the Irish Minister for

European Affairs what happens next?

This is a backstop. This is in the

absence of a free trade agreement or

a new relationship being developed

pain the UK and the EU and that's

obviously going to be the first port

of call.

obviously going to be

the first port of call.

And throughout the programme

we'll have analysis

from Professor Deirdre Heenan

and columnist Newton Emerson.

It's been nearly twelve months

since Michelle O'Neill

succeeded Martin McGuinness

as Sinn Fein's northern leader.

And while she's overseen electoral

success for the party,

the Assembly chamber has sat silent

since March and months of seemingly

endless talks between Sinn Fein

and the DUP have borne no fruit.

And as the European Union

slowly works its way

through the Brexit process,

local politicians have had no formal

voice in the process.

So will 2018 bring better fortunes

for the local political scene?

Michelle O'Neill joins me live

from her Mid-Ulster constituency.

Thanks for joining us. If you had

known a year ago how things were

going to turn out over the past

year, would you still have taken the

job?

Absolutely. Good morning. Of course

I would have. I was very honoured to

take on the role from Martin

McGuinness which was a very good

personal start for me to the year,

but that was quickly followed by the

loss of Martin McGuinness, who

suddenly died. That still continues

to hurt us all in terms of being

able to carry on the work that he

was very much committed to. I think

that of course I would have taken on

the role, knowing that politics is

going to be in our pants down

affair, that you need to be able to

roll with other challengers put in

front of you and giving people hope

for the future.

The whole thing has run into the

sand. You said again this week it is

the DUP's fought that power-sharing

has not been restored. Is that in

fact right because the DUP says it

has no red lines. It goes back into

the executive tomorrow, while your

back doing the job you are being

paid to do has run the country. You

won't have that.

Well, I think the way we need to

look at it is the fact that the DUP

are blocking peoples rights. These

are not silly sod and side dishes

that be dealt with in time. These

are fundamental issues. At the heart

of the Good Friday Agreement was

mutual respect and that is a

principle the DUP have not taken on

board. We need to look after all the

systems we are elected to look after

and they have blocked peoples

rights. Whether that be legacy

inquest rights language rights, so

the blockage firmly falls at the

feet of the DUP. We want to be in

institutions. Sinn Fein believe and

have worked the institutions because

we believe they are right for the

people here, that

they serve the people well.

It only if they work for all of the

people. Throughout the course of

this year the electorate have come

out in the biggest number seen since

the Good Friday Agreement because

they endorse that position. The

difficulty is, you have got a set of

issues that you think you cannot

compromise on, and John O'Dowd told

me recently that Sinn Fein would

compromise on previously made

compromises. So all the compromise

has to happen from the DUP. The

difficulty of them are other issues

now that have come onto the stage

the need to be dealt with as well

which are not being dealt with. Like

Brexit, like the health service

crisis, an education service in

crisis, legacy issue is not

resolved, historical abuse not been

dealt with. You're still holding

fast to the issues that are primary

concern to you where the other

issues are not being resolved.

Well, of course, these issues are

not a primary concern. They're not

just Sinn Fein's issues, they are

society's issues. If you look at the

year that has been and the issues at

the heart of the political impasse,

take the Good Friday Agreement, a

quality of esteem, aim mutual

respect, if that does not happen the

Government does not serve people

well. I believe the people

understand exactly what this is all

about, what the current political

impasse is all about. I want to be

backing institutions, want to go in

and tackle the issues of public

austerity which has been a direct

impact of the Government's impact

here. I want to tackle the issues of

historical abuse, I want to be in

the institutions and standing up for

the majority of people here have

voted to remain within the European

Union.

But it is your choice to play it in

this particular way. Nobody is

denying for a second that there are

lots of issues that need to be

resolved and need to be worked

through and they are very difficult

issues, clearly. But you need to

stand at the side of the pitch,

holding the ball, you are refusing

to hold the ball. The DUP's position

is bring the ball onto the pitch

with you and let's play the game

together, let's work our way through

it like mature adults. Why don't you

meet them halfway?

We have met them have way many

times. They have to serve all the

people. They have an innate

repeatedly on their agreements both

privately and publicly. They failed

to deliver rights for all citizens.

That is not a good Government. That

is not a Government people have

confidence in. Will only serve the

people of people believe in them and

they think there are politicians

elected to deliver for them. I want

to give hope to people because I do

believe that this can be done. But

it can only be done there is

political will that. If you look at

the year that has from the start of

the year were recorded an end to the

arrogance and disrespect. If you

look at the fact that people are now

alive to politics because of the

political situation here but also

because of Brexit, if you look at

the fact that there is now a

Nationalist revival, I think all of

this and contributed about the

people are now participating in

democracy. They're making sure their

voices heard. That is the kind of

society I want to be part of the

society I want to be a political

leader in.

The Minister for foreign affairs

says he has spoken at length to the

Secretary of State. Progress has

been made. There is a must take

opportunity to get an executive

back. You've said the current

process is dead and water but you

did speak to the Secretary of State

on Thursday, I understand, can you

tell people that there is the

possibility of talks getting under

way sooner rather than later? And

that our politicians might actually

get back to the job that we are

currently paying them to do?

Sinn Fein for a party of dialogue.

We're always open to conversation

and we're always open wanting to

resolve the current political

impasse. But the definition, and we

keep doing the same way, and

expecting to get a different

outcome. We have had a DUP

disinterested, disengaged, but

perhaps too concerned about the

interests of people in Bristol,

London from across the water, then

they have been about people here. So

I think that if we're going to have

any kind of meaningful process, and

it has to be meaningful because we

can't go back at hamster wheel, and

keep talking the issues out. What we

need is years resolution. The

blockage is firmly at the feet of

the DUP. Sinn Fein will not be able

to re-establish those institutions.

We wholeheartedly believe in them

and I need a Unionist partner in

Government. I want to lead, the

principle of the Good Friday

Agreement is how we come together. I

need a union is partying in

Government who will deliver rights

for all citizens, who is prepared to

deal with issues of sectarianism in

our society and heal the wounds of

the past.

We have heard you say that before

and the DUP interprets things in a

different way. I just wonder, on a

wider issue, if you don't feel

completely sidelined by the current

state of affairs, Sinn Fein has been

totally marginalised by not been

able to use as big as platform which

is the Stormont Assembly and a key

position of Deputy First Minister.

While big decisions are being taken

in Belfast, London and stand with

that ball on the side of the pitch

in perpetuity.

You need to get back onto that pitch

as soon as possible.

I don't agree with you. We are

firmly on the pitch. If you look at

how influential we have been able to

be in terms of holding the Dublin

Government to account and making

sure they stand up to the national

interest and protect the Good Friday

Agreement.

He is getting on and doing it. He is

paying no attention to you.

If you let me finish. We have been

able to hold the Irish Government's

speech to the fire. Our MEPs have

been extremely effective making sure

the other EU 27 member states

actually understand origin

acceptance answers here. I feel very

confident about the position and the

role that we play. I myself have

been out in Europe and have engaged

with EU leaders. I will continue to

do that because I will put the

interests of the people first. I

stand up for cross community

majority that voted to remain within

the European Union.

There is another way of looking at

it, with respect.

Let us look at the numbers. Let's

not overplay Sinn Fein's hand here.

You've got seven Westminster seats

out of them. 23 out of 158. 14%. For

seats out of 751 in Europe. That is

half of 1%. You've got very big

ideas of how influential you are.

When you look at the numbers, not so

very influential.

I think we have been very

influential. I don't agree with you.

We take our seats and we go out use

the position of people give us, the

mandate that people give us to stand

up for the people here. In terms of

the Brexit debate I think we have

very effective and we will continue

to be very effective. We've seen in

the last couple of weeks and move to

the next age, but that is by no

means a final day. We need to be

very, very birds vigilant. If there

was an incision up and running

tomorrow, ourselves and the DP would

not be on the same page. -- DUP.

There won't be one single collective

voice. But I want that. Despite all

the challenges, because I believe

that is how we best serve the

people.

And sorry for cutting a pushy.

Explain to me why, if Sinn Fein is

so influential and so much at the

centre of this ongoing process, 200

representatives from civic

nationalism he had felt it necessary

to write asking for someone to speak

up. They went over your head to

appeal to him to represent because

Northern politicians are not able to

do it.

You must be embarrassed by that. Not

at all. I think is great. I think we

should see a lot more of it. I think

that's participating the democracy.

What is great about that?

Look exactly at what they signed up

to. They want equality and respect

in Government in the north. They

want to act in the national interest

and that is what I've been saying.

So I think it is a great thing. I

want to see more people standing up

and articulating their voice. It is

an awakened Nationalist voice to me

is one of the most significant

things we've seen the share.

Rather than people elected in

Northern Ireland to speak up to

them? Because they are not doing

their job.

That is what that letter actually

says when you look at it. I don't

agree with you. If you look at any

of the people who went on any of

your programmes this week, that's

not what they meant. It is not an

either or scenario. It is not one

thing or the other. But they were

saying is we are assertive, we're

standing up for our rights, we will

not tolerate being treated as

second-class citizens and. We want

to act for Irish Nationalists

because they have been disrespected

in the current process.

I think it is a very positive thing

I want to see a lot more of it.

We

will leave it there.

We will leave it there.

Michelle O'Neill, thank you.

Let's hear the thoughts of

Newton Emerson and Deirdre Heenan.

Well, there is no sign of any

compromise coming from Sinn Fein.

That analysis from Michelle is the

same analysis we heard two months

ago, six months ago, ten months ago.

You are going to get a statement now

because the holidays are coming up

and because a British Irish summit

has been announced in the New Year.

It makes no sense for Sinn Fein to

do anything ahead of that to see

what they can get out of it, or to

see if they can pin the blame on him

for getting nothing out of it. There

was not sense in the DUP giving

hostages to fortune. She repeatedly

referred to Nationalist rising in

confidence and a new Nationalist

mood of assertiveness and

confidence. And I wonder if perhaps

this is how Sinn Fein will approach

this whole idea of returning to

Stormont with a mutual respect

because that is a very difficult

thing to prove, on concrete thing

that you can't put that in law. Apps

would be easier for them to go back

to Stormont and say we have more

self-respect now.

She was very positive about that

letter from northern nationalism,

civic nationalism, 200 people saying

this is how we see it, this is what

we want and we want him to speak up

in the national interest.

Do you see it that way? It is

complete nonsense. It is designed to

deflect from the fact that they have

delivered nothing. In the last six

months they have lost momentum. You

may say they were about to bring

down institutions at the time but in

the last number weeks it is quite

clear that they had been sidelined.

They have been evident in the con

crustaceans letter man: around

Europe. They fell in comparison to

him. He stood up for Ireland made it

clear what he wants and has not

resigned from that position. They

have no power in Belfast, an

apparent Dublin, no power in London

and nonexistent in Brussels. The

only way they will achieve power is

by getting those institutions back

up and running. A letter? Is that

the best they can do. They need to

understand that with power comes

responsibility. And they have a

responsibility to the people who

voted for them to ensure that their

voices heard.

How much influence to the two main

parties here having all that? I put

those statistics in terms of

influence to Michelle O'Neill. She

makes the case we are very

influential people, listen to us.

The numbers don't necessarily

suggest that. The DUP was not seven

French Open Thursday night.

They were playing a good media game

in Brussels but the fact is, they

keep overreaching. Sinn Fein

proposed its own complete draft on

board a resolution which the

European Parliament completely

ignored because wanted to do up its

own. They are engaging in stunts in

Brussels. But of course Michelle

O'Neill is correct that historical

back together tomorrow there would

not be a consistent view and

regulatory convergence for example.

That is one reason why perform at

the Assembly should look at

reforming the petition of concern so

that the Assembly could reach a

consensus view. It would not be a

see border versus the land border

tussle.

We'll pause there for just a second.

We'll pause there for just a second.

Not surprisingly, given the absence

of any politics locally,

it's been a week dominated

by Brexit and the border -

here it is in sixty seconds.

Again, Mr Speaker, there are

conflicting statements. This time

between the Brexit secretary and, of

course, the Brexit secretary. So who

is running the UK?

Is it Arlene Foster or the Right

Honourable member for Maidenhead?

Can I thank the Prime Minister for

her personal devotion?

I am grateful for the contributions

that were made us as they do it

right.

That is the main message. We

Europeans have secured the Irish

interest. I hope that some of the

people who perhaps supported Brexit

and campaign for that would realise

or at least acknowledge that they

are the ones who created this

problem and I am one of the people

trying to resolve it.

The border is back in Irish politics

that opens up its own problems, its

own toxicity.

Nothing of the last 24 hours has

gone anyway to solving that. But

what Theresa May been able to do is

push that fight into next year.

push that fight into next year.

Finally, on Friday, after weeks

of political turmoil,

that long-awaited agreement

on the first phase of Brexit

negotiations was ratified at the EU

Council summit in Brussels.

The Prime Minister hailed it

as an 'important step on the road

to delivering a smooth and orderly

Brexit'.

But there were warnings that

if phase one was tough -

phase two will be tougher.

I was in Brussels for the summit

where I caught up with

the Irish Minister for EU affairs,

Helen McEntee, and I began

by asking her what happens next?

What we need to do now, looking

forward, is essentially take that

agreement, put it into a legally

binding document or treaty, which

would be essentially dubbed for

treaty. We then need to look at the

transition period and to make it

concrete so that we know exactly

what it will look like and what kind

of timeline will be on it as well.

It also, in that time, we need to

start looking at the kind of

framework, as to how phase two will

actually take place and what that

will look like, so obviously phase

one was very distinct with three

clear strands and three clear

focuses. What would face to look

like? Between now and March that is

the work that will happen and then

from March onwards that is when

we're going to start looking at what

kind of a future there will be

between the UK and the rest of the

EU and obviously island wants to

have wanted that phase as soon as

possible.

But those will not be formal trade

talks. That will be discussion about

the framework for those trade talks?

Well, I suppose, essentially, they

will be getting into various

different sectors, various different

areas and starting to look at what

that relationship will be because

we're talking about, I suppose, at

the moment a transition period of

two years. To say you couldn't have

a discussion about the future

relationship between now and then,

you know, I don't think that's

possible. Start to look at various

different sectors, various different

industries and how, I suppose, we

can form this relationship and this

agreement that the UK and the rest

of the EU wants to form so that we

have the closest possible

relationship that we can and

obviously, I think, in the absence

of that happening this is why we

have been so, I suppose, consistent

and wanting our very clear

particularly around the Irish uses,

around the border, since insisting

there is no hard border.

In the joint report, which was the

deal on phase one, the UK is

required as a backstop position to

maintain full alignment with the

single market of the customs union.

He was very clear about that over

the conference that that was very

straightforward. It was very simple,

it is not in anyway complicated. He

said he did not need to spin it in

anyway. The reality is, though,

Unionists don't see of the way she

sees it and a lot of conservatives

don't see it way she sees it.

It is open to interpretation.

I

think the wedding is very clear. And

we've been very consistent

throughout, with our request that

irrespective of what happens there

cannot be a hard border on the

island of Ireland. The wedding is

very specific in the absence of the

trade deal and negotiations

happening between the UK and the

rest of the European Union, there

would be full alignment in relation

to the single market and the customs

union. Areas that pertained to the

Good Friday Agreement. Areas of

cooperation, North and south. So

that is very clear and it means that

the status quo will remain. What we

have now is additional wording from

the first draft of the document that

was previously, in the week, where

there was additional wording to say

that there would be no barriers of

trade between east and west. There

is alignment north and south than

that alignment will then follow

through east and west. So that is

busy something getting into phase

two that have to see how that

transpires.

One of the policy areas that might

be affected by the maintenance of

full alignment, if that position is

what ultimately happens, do you see

it as a very small number of policy

areas identified in the Good Friday

Agreement?

Could it a lot more than that some

people are suggesting?

I think, when

you look at it in the context of the

wedding, it is very clear we're

talking about the Good Friday

Agreement, we're talking about areas

of cooperation, north and south, we

should be the 142 and possibly more

that haven't been identified yet,

but also the economy.

So it is big. There is a lot of work

I think and what it is very clear

about is it is not just the present,

any changes that might happen into

the future, linked to the economy

and the Good Friday Agreement. So

you have to take that into account.

There is a huge amount of work on it

but obviously again we're saying

that this is a backstop. This is in

the absence of a free-trade

agreement all a new relationship

being developed between the UK and

the EU, and I think that is busy

going to be the first port of call.

Helen McAntee speaking

to me in Brussels.

Phase one is at an end and phase two

is going to be even more difficult.

A lot more needs to be discussed.

What about this issue of maintaining

full alignment?

It means to different things to the

British and Irish governments? It

can mean two different things to the

governments and they cancelled it

out. If we simply allow them to move

to the second stage. Think it's

constructive ambiguity. They will

have to work out what it means. What

Theresa May, she's going back now

having really extracted no

concessions from the EU. She will

conflict in the Cabinet and conflict

within her own party. Already people

in her own party are saying we want

a transition period and if there is

a transition period we don't want to

be partners within the EU making

brooms. So she's got conflict over

the place and she's got to go with a

united front to try to negotiate

with the EU and that'll be

difficulty, putting on that front

and deciding exactly what the UK

want the relationship to look like.

Constructive ambiguity is fine for a

while and then it as an awful habit

of unravelling.

And the agreement became more

ambiguous as last week went on. This

all Ireland economy reference that

she mentioned there, that wasn't

there on Monday. Suddenly it has

appeared. The only effect the DUP

had on the deal was to make it worse

from their perspective.

Thank you very much for today and

for your contribution over the last

few months.

few months.

That's it for now,

and indeed for 2017.

Welcome back.

You'll often hear people on TV shows

like this one in December

reflecting on what a momentous year

it's been in politics.

Well, this time we really mean it...

Again.

We sent Ellie Price off for a gentle

stroll through the events

that have shaped 2017.

2017 was shaped by what happened

when Theresa May went for a hike

with her husband in April and came

back with a jolly good idea.

I have just chaired a meeting

of the Cabinet where we agreed

that the Government should call

a general election to be

held on the 8th of June.

General election.

You're joking.

Not another one!

The path to victory seemed so clear.

Article 50 had been triggered,

the Tories had won a by-election,

and they made big gains

across the country at

the local elections,

at the expense of Ukip,

whose vote collapsed, and Labour.

Yes, we have to go out

there in the next four weeks

and get our message out.

Labour launched a manifesto that

called for the renationalisation

of the water companies and an end

to tuition fees.

This is a programme of hope.

The Tory campaign, by contrast,

is built on one word, fear.

The Tories, meanwhile,

unveiled a document that included

scrapping free school lunches

for children in England and a

shake-up of the social care system.

Let us all go forward together.

APPLAUSE.

But then the way forward wasn't

so obvious, and Theresa May

was forced into a U-turn

on social care.

Nothing has changed.

Nothing has changed.

Then she refused to take part in any

head-to-head televised debates.

The Prime Minister

is not here tonight.

She can't be bothered,

so why should you?

In fact, Bake Off

is on BBC Two next.

It wasn't Bake Off, but she did go

on the TV and talk about the bins,

and it all seemed a bit cringey.

I get to decide when I take the bins

out, not if I take them out.

LAUGHTER.

But, I mean...

There's boy jobs and

girl jobs, you see.

Oh, really?

What, boy jobs...

And then there was that weird time

the Prime Minister was asked

what was the naughtiest thing she'd

ever done as a child.

She said it was to run

through a field of wheat.

Come on, Ed.

Come on, Ed.

# The hills are alive with the sound

of music...#

Meanwhile, Jeremy Corbyn

was positively frolicking out

on the campaign trail,

greeted like a rock star

at his well-attended rallies.

The other party leaders also

had their challenges.

You won't say whether you think

having gay sex is a sin.

Winning those 56 seats

will be a huge challenge

for Nicola Sturgeon's party.

Ruth Davidson has predicted

that we've hit a peak

and the only way is down.

This party...

Hello.

And what we are saying

is that the Conservatives

are the largest party.

Note they don't have an overall

majority at this stage.

Deal or no deal, Mrs Foster?

The Conservatives lost 12 seats,

creating a hung parliament -

so, 18 days after the election,

Theresa May did a deal

with the Democratic Unionist Party's

ten MPs from Northern Ireland.

Meanwhile, Jeremy Corbyn

was hanging out with his

new mates at Glastonbury.

CROWD: # Oh, Jeremy Corbyn...#

With the election over, Brexit

negotiations dominated the summer,

and keeping control of her own party

was an uphill struggle for the PM.

That's why everyone was focused

on her conference speech,

including a prankster.

Boris, job done there.

An errant frog...

SHE COUGHS.

Excuse me.

The deficit is back

to pre-crisis levels...

And then the scenery that fell down.

The PM put on a brave face

and was supported by her husband,

and later her Cabinet,

after some whispering

about her leadership.

By the end of October,

the sexual harassment

scandal hit Westminster.

Various MPs were implicated,

and so was a Cabinet

minister, who stood down.

Below the high standards...

A week later, another

Cabinet resignation.

This time, Priti Patel,

the International Development

Secretary, fell on her sword over

unauthorised meetings

she'd had with Israeli

officials while on holiday.

Although there are plenty

of 27 moments Theresa May

would probably rather forget,

this handshake just last week

was a crucial breakthrough

in the Brexit negotiations.

The moment the EU accepted

it was time to move on and talk

about the future relationship.

Of course, that doesn't

mean negotiations next

year will be any easier.

But with everything going on this