17/12/2017 Sunday Politics Northern Ireland


17/12/2017

Sarah Smith and Mark Carruthers with the latest political news, interviews and debate. The political panel comprises Camilla Tominey, Steve Richards and Tom Newton-Dunn.


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Transcript


LineFromTo

Morning, everyone,

and welcome to the Sunday Politics.

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I'm Sarah Smith.

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And for the last time in 2017,

this is your guide to the big

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political stories making the news

this Sunday morning.

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Theresa May says she's silenced

the doubters by securing a deal

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for Britain in the first phase

of the Brexit negotations.

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Now attention turns to the much

bigger task of deciding our future

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relationship with the EU.

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She'll be discussing that

with her cabinet this week,

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but with so many huge unresolved

questions about life after Brexit,

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can we possibly expect

seasonal goodwill to break out

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across the Tory party

and the country?

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And I'm here at stunning Warwick

Castle to find out whether people

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Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics

in Northern Ireland.

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It's been a year dominated

by negotiations -

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at Stormont and in Brussels.

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But as the Brexit negotiations

move forward, I'll ask

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Sinn Feins Michelle O'Neill

what hope she sees

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of a Stormont return?

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Join me in half an hour.

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All that coming up in the programme,

our final show of the year.

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Think of it as

our early Christmas present,

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one I'm afraid you can't

take back to the shops.

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And joining me today,

Fleet Street's answer

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to Santa's little helpers,

Tom Newton Dunn,

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Camilla Tominey and Steve Richards.

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Well, we began the year

talking about Brexit,

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and we'll finish talking about...

you've guessed it, Brexit.

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And there have been big developments

in just the past week,

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which saw Theresa May go from hero

to zero, to somewhere in between.

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Seasonal goodwill spread

through the Conservative Party

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on Monday, when Theresa May reported

back to Parliament on her deal to

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move Brexit talks on to phase two.

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When people like me, Brexiteers,

look at the alternative,

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namely the Labour government,

a Labour government staying

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in the single market forever

and having no control over

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immigration, it's amazing

how our minds are concentrated

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in support of the Prime Minister.

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Across these benches,

complete unanimity

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in congratulating the Prime Minister

on securing this agreement.

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That Christmas cheer

did not last long.

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On the eve of the European

summit to ratify the deal,

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the EU Withdrawal Bill was

back in the Commons.

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The Government avoided defeat

on several amendments,

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but then came former

Attorney General Dominic Grieve

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and his call for MPs

to have a meaningful vote

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on the final Brexit deal.

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Brexit Secretary David Davis

tried to head off the rebellion

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with a letter to backbenchers.

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In the final hour,

there was a last-ditch offer.

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It wasn't enough.

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It's too late. I'm sorry.

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You cannot, you cannot treat

the House in this fashion.

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The Prime Minister suffered

her first defeat on government

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business of her premiership.

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The ayes to the right, 309.

The noes to the left, 305.

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Labour were delighted.

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The Prime Minister tried a power

grab, tried to push through the EU

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Withdrawal Bill without proper

Parliamentary scrutiny and take

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powers away from Parliament.

Parliament resisted tonight.

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Brexit supporters were enraged.

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One rebel, Stephen Hammond,

was promptly sacked

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as vice-chairman of the party.

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It was an embarrassment

for Theresa May, not a fatal blow.

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On Thursday, she arrived

in Brussels sounding upbeat.

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I'm disappointed with the amendment,

but actually the, EU Withdrawal Bill

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is making good progress

through the House of Commons,

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and we're on course

to deliver on Brexit.

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She was applauded by leaders

of the 27 EU member states,

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rewarded on Friday with a tweet

from EU Council President Donald

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Tusk confirming they had agreed

to move on to phase two

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of the talks.

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"Congratulations,

Theresa May," he said.

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Mrs May can't put her feet up

for holidays just yet.

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The Cabinet will meet this week

to discuss what the future

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relationship with the EU will

look like for the first time.

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No one's expecting them all to be

singing from the same carol sheet.

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But on Friday,

a fresh rebellion over the EU

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Withdrawal Bill was headed off,

so peace on earth, or at least

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within the Conservative

Party, reigns for now.

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But how much longer can that harmony

exist within the Cabinet? I will

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talk to the panel about next week's

discussion on the future end state

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of our relations with the EU,

because it will be discussed in

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Cabinet for the first time. Theresa

May writing in the papers today, she

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proved the doubters wrong, is she

right?

She did in the sense that

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many people thought she wouldn't get

through the first phase. They found

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words to bind all parties together.

That's what she did in the first

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phase. She is right in that sense.

The second phase of which this

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Cabinet meeting this week will be

just an early tiptoeing on the

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Touraine, it will be much more

mountainous and difficult. I suspect

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the Cabinet meeting will be merely

exploring some of the themes, and

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there will be, for sure, no

resolution as to what the

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government's final position will be.

We have seen some themes explored

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this week, Philip Hammond yesterday

in China talking about staying

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within the EU rules and regulations

during the transition. We have Boris

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Johnson in the papers today setting

out a vision for by virgin further

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from the EU then people like Hammond

would like. Will that be aired in

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Cabinet?

Are they going to be

singing from the same carol sheet...

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Will they sing from the same

spreadsheet in relation to Philip

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Hammond's desires? We note Boris

Johnson speaking today in the Sunday

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Times, talking about the notion of

eventual self-governance and a

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diverging. You have also got Michael

Gove wanting, during the transition

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period, for us to be out of the

common agricultural policy, Albert

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the Common fisheries policy, that

will be a difficult issue for them

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to discuss. We are not even getting

onto the end trade deal, and which

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direction do we want to go in? The

Prime Minister has made clear she

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wants Canada plus model as opposed

to a Norway style of agreement,

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which to be fair to her, she pointed

out in Florence. She said an EEA

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agreement was not what was agreed,

and we don't want to be rule takers.

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There is a lot to play for. Two

Cabinet meetings, one of the

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subcabinet, the war committee, and

the one on Tuesday following the

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parliament really address.

The

papers have gone on the idea that

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Boris is setting out a different

vision of Britain after Brexit, but

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is it different to Theresa May in

her Florence Beach?

Not really. This

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is no different to what Boris has

said, the Sunday before Christmas,

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there had to be a row -- Florence

speech. This is well established

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positions, we know what they all

think, and we have all been saying

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for a year and a half since the

referendum that am at some stage, it

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would have to be crossed. There has

to be a big choice between a

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diverging or harmonisation, because

so far, the EU has been binary about

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it. It won't be solved in Cabinet

this week or next month, my bet is,

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yet again, they will come up with a

fudged to present to the EU, or

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Cabinet will fall apart and half of

them will have to leave. Eventually,

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it will have to be grasped in the

autumn when the EU say, "You either

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have to defecate or get off the

potty, because this is what is in

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front of you." The third option was

interesting, at the summit on

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Friday, something interesting

happened, which was the EU blinked,

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they said, "Move on to trade and

transition." But we are not quite

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ready to do trade. We are incredibly

United to begin with, now we don't

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know what we want. We have three

months before trade starts in March

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for everybody, for the British

Governor, to influence the EU 27 in

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their thinking, and come up with a

great third Way, which is cake and

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eat it.

And will be considerably

more corrugated than what we have

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done already. Stay there, we will

come back to you during the course

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of the programme.

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Well, we can speak now

to the Conservative MP

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for mid-Bedfordshire.

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She ruffled some feathers this week

when she said that pro-European

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Tories who rebelled

on the EU Withdrawal Bill

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should be deselected.

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Thank you for joining us. Can we

talk first about the transition, or

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implementation period, two years

after we leave the EU, a number of

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your colleagues have expressed a

number of serious concerns about the

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idea we will be following EU rules

and regulations during that period,

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how worried are you about that?

I

think everybody's concerned about

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that. The important thing is, we get

this period, this transition period,

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through and done as quickly as

possible. Therefore, we have to

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reach agreement. The reason why it

needs to be done as quickly as

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possible is because it is in

Britain's interests, it is in the

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interest of business, who required

stability and security, and

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confidence moving forward. We've do

need to get to this position as

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quickly as possible. The rebels from

last week are going to have to

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explain why, if they don't think we

should leave the Commons fishery

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policy, why that would not be in

Britain's interest. There is a lot

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up for debate going forward.

The

Chancellor made it clear that he

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would be replicating the status quo

during this transition period. That

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doesn't mean leaving the common

fisheries policy or die vaulting in

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any way from EU rules. -- by

vaulting.

During his budget speech,

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he himself talk about the uniqueness

of Britain. It took about my own

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constituency and area, which will

become a tech corridor. So he has

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highlighted areas where we can

divert, which is in high-tech. We

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can do it in that area, we can do it

in my constituency, like art we do

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it in other areas...

The point he

was talking about was, yesterday, he

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said, we would be subject to all old

rules and regulations during that

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period.

It also depends how long

that period is going to be. Most

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reasonable and sensible people can

accept a period of time when we need

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to have those discussions, and when

we will abide by those rules. The

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problem is, what we don't want to

see is Brexit constantly kicked into

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the long grass as we go further and

further forward, and Brexit never

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seems to be actually happening.

There has to be an endgame.

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Everybody wants to see that. If we

can't see that quickly enough, then

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we do have to have these unique and

these individual situations where we

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may need to pull out of certain

things sooner.

Talking about the

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endgame, that is what the Cabinet

will discuss this week, we know

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there will be a debate inside there,

and people like Philip Hammond the

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Chancellor will argue that we stay

closely aligned to EU rules and

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regulations even after we have

finally left, how worried are you

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about those so-called soft

Brexiteers prevailing in Cabinet?

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Gosh, do you know... I'm not sure

they will prevail. I trust Theresa

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May, I trust David Davies, I trust

Amber Rudd. I trust all of the

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people in Cabinet to reach an

agreement. And because what they

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will be doing is reaching an

agreement in Britain's interest and

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the interest of Parliament, and the

interest of Brexit. All of those

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people in Cabinet stood on a

manifesto in 2017 to deliver Brexit,

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and they have to do that in a way

which the British people, who

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democratically exercised their vote,

would like to see. Otherwise they

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will lose the support of the British

public.

You say you trust the

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Cabinet to deliver Brexit, do you

trust all of your Tory MP colleagues

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to do so?

Well, I hope so. Can I

just say, I know the rebels are

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being lauded as he arose from whence

they not, can I tell you who the

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real heroes are in all of this, they

are the Conservative MPs, not the

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Labour MPs, but the Conservative MPs

who believed in Remain, who

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campaigned for Remain, during the EU

referendum, but stood on a manifesto

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to deliver Brexit, and they are the

people who are the unsung heroes,

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who are backing the government and

backing Theresa May, and doing so

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because they know that is their duty

to do so. Some of the rebels could

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perhaps learn a lesson from some of

their Remain colleagues, who know

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the right thing to do is to deliver

Brexit, because that was voted for a

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democratic mandate.

You are being

quite Conser Liege reef, --

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consulate tree, but you did at the

time tweaked that they should be

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deselected and never allowed to

stand as Tory MPs again, have you

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changed your mind about that?

Gosh... I don't know if I have

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changed my mind, but what I meant at

the time was, most of these rebels

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voted for the private members' Bill

to have a referendum. They stood on

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a manifesto in 2015 to deliver that

referendum. And then they stood

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again on a manifesto in 2017 to

implement Brexit. I think, to go

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back on those promises, that they

were elected to honour, it is

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something for their associations to

discuss and consider...

But... Have

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they gone back on those promises?

They would say they still want to

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intimate Brexit, they just want

Parliament to have control over that

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rather than the executive.

No, I

don't believe they do. I believe

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what they have deliberately tried to

do right from the moment of the

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referendum result is to frustrate

and delay Brexit, and I believe this

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is a very active tactic they are

using. No, I do believe they are

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honouring the promise they stood on

in the 20 Zinedine manifesto. They

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should put trust in David Davies and

the Prime Minister. Rather than make

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life difficult for the Prime

Minister when she is leaving to go

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to Brussels for further

negotiations, trust the Prime

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Minister and assist the Prime

Minister. That is what they have

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been elected to do. There is a

Conservative government that has

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been elected on a manifesto to

deliver Brexit.

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From the beginning, they have gone

out of their way to delay and

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frustrate this, and they need to

stop doing it.

Anna Soubry, one of

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the rebels, writing in the Mail on

Sunday, says that calls for rebels

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to be deselected mean the Tories now

have their own blue momentum

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movement.

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I do, I am sure he does.

You

frequently voted with your

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conscience, you voted against Tory

primaries does in the past and

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rebelled against the whip, why is it

different?

I voted many times

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against the government, I am a

self-declared rebel, but I do it at

0:16:490:16:53

a time, you have to choose your

rebellions carefully. What I would

0:16:530:16:57

say is different now is that we have

a Marxist government knocking on the

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door. We have a full mandate from

the British public to deliver

0:17:010:17:05

Brexit, they voted for it in the

referendum. These MPs stood on that

0:17:050:17:10

promise in 2017, today is very

different. What happened on

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Wednesday night was the rebels put a

spring in the step of Labour MPs.

0:17:140:17:17

The party in Jeremy Corbyn's office

could be heard in the car park

0:17:170:17:24

outside. It has made life difficult

for us to keep that Marxist

0:17:240:17:29

government out of power eventually.

They have helped Labour MPs find

0:17:290:17:32

their mojo one is again. We don't

want that to happen. We have an

0:17:320:17:38

important situation that has not

been seen since wartime. The

0:17:380:17:43

response ability was to support the

government.

Nadeem, thank you for

0:17:430:17:47

talking to us this morning.

0:17:470:17:49

We can speak now to one

of the leading pro-EU

0:17:490:17:52

Conservative MPs, Ken Clarke.

He's in Nottingham.

0:17:520:17:55

Thank you for joining us this

warning.

Glad to be here.

I hope you

0:17:550:18:02

could hear Nadine Dorries, she says

rebels, you and others, but voted

0:18:020:18:06

against the government on Wednesday,

are trying to reverse Brexit.

You

0:18:060:18:12

have succeeded in getting into all

of this personal stuff, but I do

0:18:120:18:15

think she is aiming it at me. I am a

member of the government that led us

0:18:150:18:22

into Europe and the single market, I

did not vote in the referendum, and

0:18:220:18:26

my constituents have no doubts about

my views. The 20 Zinedine manifesto

0:18:260:18:30

was produced after I had been

adopted as a candidate, no one sent

0:18:300:18:34

me a copy, and I haven't ever seen a

copy of it. Let's get back to the

0:18:340:18:40

big issues, which are how do we

preserve the future prosperity of

0:18:400:18:44

this country? How do we preserve a

leading position in world affairs to

0:18:440:18:48

look after our interest? What is the

best thing to do for the interests

0:18:480:18:54

of our children and our

grandchildren? All of these other

0:18:540:18:59

things, the right-wing newspaper

rubbish,, it is trying to get a Tory

0:18:590:19:08

equivalent of momentum.

Do you think

that the way to preserve the things

0:19:080:19:10

you talk about is to put reverse

Brexit?

I don't think we can do

0:19:100:19:15

that. I was in the small minority

when I voted against in -- invoking

0:19:150:19:23

Article 50. The party is moving

towards Brexit, the country will see

0:19:230:19:28

Brexit. Suddenly turning Brexit into

a proposal, we have big lorry parks,

0:19:280:19:41

customs officers, so different

market regulations, you know,

0:19:410:19:46

different rules about backing

cleaner noise, that was not what the

0:19:460:19:52

referendum was about. More

importantly, it will do great damage

0:19:520:19:55

to our economy, it could cost

thousands of jobs and make the

0:19:550:19:58

country much mess less attractive.

We have now got to try to reach an

0:19:580:20:08

agreement that produces a sensible,

sensible political and economic

0:20:080:20:13

future for this country in the real

world, not in the slightly childish

0:20:130:20:19

world of knock about politics.

How

confident are you the Cabinet will

0:20:190:20:23

come to that compromise when they

start to discuss things this week?

0:20:230:20:28

We keep having public statements,

which are rather alarming, but I am

0:20:280:20:32

reasonably confident that they can.

What are you alarmed by in the

0:20:320:20:35

public state was?

You are trying to

get me to go on about Boris, out of

0:20:350:20:43

line with what apply Mr has done.

But the Chancellor has a duty to

0:20:430:20:51

actually look after the British

economy, to make sure business is

0:20:510:20:56

not deterred from coming to this

country, to make sure we keep our

0:20:560:21:02

markets in Europe, and in the rest

of the world, as intact as we can. I

0:21:020:21:08

think the Cabinet will rally around

that.

Theresa May made pretty clear

0:21:080:21:13

in her Florence speech that what we

will leave the supermarket, the

0:21:130:21:16

customs unit, and there fetch you

ruled out the post Brexit future?

0:21:160:21:30

Lancaster House was the first time

anyone had interpreted, anyone in

0:21:300:21:35

authority, had interpreted the

referendum result to mean that. It

0:21:350:21:38

does give rise to problems. What

they have now got to address is the

0:21:380:21:43

problems that arise. It started with

last week, we suddenly faced

0:21:430:21:47

Ireland, which nobody had mentioned,

which is an insult to the people of

0:21:470:21:52

Northern Ireland and Republic of

Island, really we agreed then, we

0:21:520:21:56

must keep the border open with

regulatory convergence on both

0:21:560:22:01

sides. It applies to Dover and

Folkestone, and we won't get

0:22:010:22:04

planning permission for the lorry

parks we would need if we rush on

0:22:040:22:12

abandoning the single market in

March, 2019, we have brought coming.

0:22:120:22:16

Let's not into Gibraltar. It would

make the Irish problems looked like

0:22:160:22:21

a picnic. You will have a lot of

adage businesses wondering where on

0:22:210:22:25

earth Britain is going unless we now

interpret policy of the Florence

0:22:250:22:34

speech and move on from the Florence

speech, which was a big move

0:22:340:22:37

forward, move on from the fact that

we finally settled these three quite

0:22:370:22:43

simple issues that had to be settled

about our withdrawal, which could

0:22:430:22:46

have been months ago had it not been

for the troubles.

0:22:460:22:54

We need to get onto a sensible

economic future worked out by people

0:22:540:22:58

prepared to read the brief and who

know something about trade,

0:22:580:23:03

investment and business in the

modern, globalised economy.

With the

0:23:030:23:08

vote last week, in which Parliament

now gets a meaningful say on the

0:23:080:23:12

Brexit deal, do you interpret that

to mean that parliament could send

0:23:120:23:16

the Prime Minister back to Brussels

to renegotiate a different deal if

0:23:160:23:20

Parliament doesn't like it, so your

views have to be taken into account

0:23:200:23:22

with the final deal?

Politics in

this country is based on all

0:23:220:23:29

governments having to take the views

of Parliament into account. It's

0:23:290:23:32

difficult when Parliament is a small

majority where there is confusion,

0:23:320:23:36

because the issue cuts across party

lines, that makes it more difficult,

0:23:360:23:42

but it was a mistake to invoke the

royal prerogative, a mistake to try

0:23:420:23:45

and avoid Parliament revoked. In the

end, this is determining our future

0:23:450:23:52

for the next generation or two on

difficult issues that Parliament

0:23:520:23:57

will have to approve before

government can get a deal. That

0:23:570:24:00

should strengthen Theresa May and

David Davis's hands in the

0:24:000:24:04

negotiations because, just like the

other 27 negotiators, they will have

0:24:040:24:09

to say that they can't deliver

things which they can't get past

0:24:090:24:13

their own parliament.

It's been

reported this morning that Heidi

0:24:130:24:17

Allen, a Conservative MP who

rebelled against the government last

0:24:170:24:21

week, is facing threats of

deselection. You are perfectly safe

0:24:210:24:26

in your constituency, are you? What

do you think of the other rebels

0:24:260:24:32

being deselected?

I don't think my

constituents have any doubts about

0:24:320:24:35

my views, not all of my association

agree with me, but I have never

0:24:350:24:38

fallen out with anybody personally

because of political differences. I

0:24:380:24:44

think this is all nonsense. It's

caused by the rubbish that keeps

0:24:440:24:49

appearing in the right-wing

newspapers, which have completely

0:24:490:24:51

lost their heads over the whole

thing. It is totally absurd to say

0:24:510:24:55

this is helping Jeremy Corbyn, it is

weakening Theresa May and all the

0:24:550:25:01

rest of it. Here we are, three days

after the vote took place, and

0:25:010:25:06

Theresa May is no weaker and she was

after that. Jeremy Corbyn is not

0:25:060:25:11

marching towards Downing Street.

What we voted for is a Parliamentary

0:25:110:25:19

accountability of the government.

Nothing to do with blocking Brexit,

0:25:190:25:23

and it is utterly idiotic few of our

association members in various parts

0:25:230:25:28

of country start interpreting this

as the start of some sort of purge

0:25:280:25:33

of backbench members of conscience.

Eurosceptics have been voting

0:25:330:25:39

against the government for the last

30 years, and nobody on my side of

0:25:390:25:44

the argument has ever gone round

saying they should be expelled from

0:25:440:25:46

the party and sent to darkness. It

is a broad church, it is a

0:25:460:25:54

free-market party with a strong

social conscience, and it has been a

0:25:540:25:58

pro-European party for the first 50

years of my membership.

Thank you

0:25:580:26:03

for talking to us, and I'll come

back to the panel. He says the Prime

0:26:030:26:07

Minister was not weakened by that

vote, and neither was Jeremy Corbyn

0:26:070:26:10

emboldened. Is he right?

Not quite

right. What the vote did was point

0:26:100:26:16

out what we all secretly knew. She

wasn't further weakened by it, she

0:26:160:26:22

was weakened by the general election

result. She was always going to be

0:26:220:26:30

in this predicament without a

majority. That vote reminded

0:26:300:26:32

everybody of how weak she is and

will continue to be as this entire

0:26:320:26:40

Parliament passes.

The accusation

from people like Nadine Dorries is

0:26:400:26:42

that this helps Labour and

intentionally offers in a Corbyn

0:26:420:26:46

government is any truth in that?

There was a perception of truth

0:26:460:26:51

because of how close he got to

number ten, which took us by

0:26:510:26:56

surprise on election night, apart

from you, who got it right. But

0:26:560:26:59

equally I think there was a sense

with Theresa May's own popularity,

0:26:590:27:03

and recent polling is said that the

Conservatives are gaining an Jeremy

0:27:030:27:07

Corbyn, which is perhaps explained

by the fact that people are unclear,

0:27:070:27:13

despite numerous explanations by

Keir Starmer, shadow Brexit

0:27:130:27:16

Secretary, on the Labour opposition.

They appear to have backtracked on

0:27:160:27:19

their manifesto and want close

alignment, if not remaining in the

0:27:190:27:22

supermarket and customs union, which

is anathema to anybody who voted for

0:27:220:27:27

Brexit an Jeremy Corbyn and Labour,

and equally I think it's interesting

0:27:270:27:30

that, once we take ourselves out of

Westminster bubble, some of the talk

0:27:300:27:36

on the streets about Theresa May's

apparent weakness is misplaced. A

0:27:360:27:40

lots of people think she has shown

resilience and they appreciate she

0:27:400:27:44

is in a difficult political mess, in

terms of her lack of a larger

0:27:440:27:48

majority and the rest of it, but I

think she was pity David after

0:27:480:27:52

coughing gate, and I think that has

turned into grudging admiration for

0:27:520:27:58

the fact that she has defied the

people who said it would be

0:27:580:28:02

impossible and managed to get to the

second phase of negotiations.

I

0:28:020:28:06

think what we got with the vote was

recognition that this is a hung

0:28:060:28:10

parliament. In a hung Parliament,

government get defeated. . This is

0:28:100:28:16

new to us because we had the

coalition which a majority and the

0:28:160:28:20

Labour and Thatcher landslide eras,

but in the 70s, the key moments that

0:28:200:28:28

Labour government defeated again and

again, this one will. It's not that

0:28:280:28:32

she is inherently weak as a

personality, she is just in a weak

0:28:320:28:35

position. There was a majority

forming. It probably could have been

0:28:350:28:39

bigger. In favour of that amendment

last week. It will happen again

0:28:390:28:46

because the House of Commons is in a

different place on Europe than she

0:28:460:28:50

is.

Briefly.

What was fascinating is

that Nadine Dorries and those of her

0:28:500:28:57

like said, you weakened her, nobody

will take seriously in Brussels, but

0:28:570:29:01

she went and she got love oned. It

had an inverse effect. -- love oned.

0:29:010:29:09

Using weakness as a strength.

0:29:090:29:13

And you can find more Brexit

analysis and explanation on the BBC

0:29:130:29:16

website, at bbc.co.uk/brexit.

0:29:160:29:17

Let's turn now to Labour.

0:29:170:29:18

As 2017 draws to a close they've got

plenty to feel upbeat about,

0:29:180:29:21

although they could have to wait

another four and a half years

0:29:210:29:24

for a chance to form a government.

0:29:240:29:26

The party says it's ready,

but do the public agree?

0:29:260:29:28

Elizabeth Glinka took the entirely

unscientific moodbox

0:29:280:29:31

to the constituency of Warwick

and Leamington, a former

0:29:310:29:33

Conservative seat snatched

by Labour in June.

0:29:330:29:37

This week, Theresa May

faced her first defeat

0:29:380:29:41

in the House of Commons -

and, if you speak to Labour

0:29:410:29:44

activists, they will tell

you a general election could be just

0:29:440:29:46

around the corner, and they are more

than ready to form a government.

0:29:460:29:50

So we've come here to

Warwick Castle to ask people,

0:29:500:29:52

is Labour ready or not ready?

0:29:520:29:55

No, definitely not.

0:29:590:30:00

Why not?

0:30:000:30:01

I don't like the Labour leader.

0:30:010:30:03

It's the first time I've been asked

about politics here in the castle.

0:30:040:30:07

I think they are ready.

0:30:070:30:08

Absolutely not ready.

0:30:080:30:11

They don't seem to have any strong

policies and every time you hear

0:30:110:30:14

them arguing against the Government

they are just negative.

0:30:140:30:16

There's not a positive,

constructive response.

0:30:160:30:20

I came from a country

which was Communist for a long time.

0:30:210:30:24

It terrifies me when I hear

some of their ideas.

0:30:240:30:26

Although I don't like

the other guys, too.

0:30:260:30:29

LAUGHTER.

0:30:290:30:32

Would you say the Labour Party

is ready for government?

0:30:320:30:35

Yes.

0:30:350:30:37

I'll take that as a yes.

0:30:370:30:39

Sorry, Jeremy.

0:30:390:30:40

I remember British Rail

before it was privatised.

0:30:400:30:43

It was dreadful.

0:30:430:30:47

I would say ready.

0:30:470:30:49

I think that the Tory party

are totally focused on Brexit.

0:30:490:30:53

They are not looking at any

of the other problems,

0:30:530:30:55

the NHS, housing, transport,

everything else that's

0:30:550:30:57

going on in the country,

and I think the Labour Party

0:30:570:31:00

would look at those other issues.

0:31:000:31:02

Not ready.

0:31:020:31:03

Not ready.

0:31:030:31:04

They're not clear on their policies

and a lot of infighting,

0:31:040:31:06

so I just don't think they are ready

to be in charge yet.

0:31:060:31:09

Thank you for this.

0:31:100:31:11

That's OK.

0:31:110:31:12

There is never a knight

around when you need one.

0:31:120:31:15

I'd go with ready.

0:31:160:31:17

I think, from what we've got

at the moment, I think

0:31:170:31:19

give them a chance.

0:31:190:31:21

OK, let's go for it then.

0:31:210:31:23

Not ready, maybe because I don't

think the Shadow Chancellor

0:31:230:31:25

is at all suitable.

0:31:250:31:28

They can't do any worse

than what we've already got

0:31:320:31:34

at the moment, so I think time

for a change.

0:31:340:31:37

Would you say the Labour Party is

ready or not ready for government?

0:31:370:31:42

Interesting.

0:31:450:31:46

Not ready.

0:31:460:31:47

Why is that?

0:31:470:31:48

Not ready, because they are still

bickering amongst themselves.

0:31:480:31:50

Because I am fed up

with the Conservative government.

0:31:500:31:53

I feel we need a change.

0:31:530:31:54

OK, so why did you go for not ready?

0:31:540:31:56

I just don't think they have

what it takes just yet.

0:31:560:31:59

Well, only eight more

sleeps till Christmas,

0:31:590:32:01

and I'm afraid Jeremy Corbyn may not

like his present this year.

0:32:010:32:04

The visitors here to Warwick Castle

say that Labour is not

0:32:040:32:06

ready for government.

0:32:060:32:09

Right, better get the rest

of these presents delivered.

0:32:090:32:14

Elizabeth Glinka with

the decidedly unscientific

0:32:140:32:16

moodbox at Warwick Castle.

0:32:160:32:18

Well, I'm joined now

by the shadow justice

0:32:180:32:20

secretary Richard Burgon,

he's in Leeds.

0:32:200:32:26

Good morning.

Good morning, Sarah.

We were told in the summer that

0:32:260:32:32

Jeremy Corbyn reportedly said he

would be Prime Minister by

0:32:320:32:36

Christmas. It doesn't look as though

it is likely to happen. Will he be

0:32:360:32:40

in Number Ten by next Christmas, do

you think?

Who knows, all we can say

0:32:400:32:46

is we will be ready for another

general election when it take place

0:32:460:32:49

and we are ready to go the full

course is that needs to be the case

0:32:490:32:52

as well.

In order to be ready for an

election, it will be important to

0:32:520:32:57

have a clear position on Brexit, and

in fairness the Labour opposition

0:32:570:33:02

there has been some clarity in the

last couple of weeks on bad, and it

0:33:020:33:05

appears the wants to stay much

closer to EU rules and regulations

0:33:050:33:12

than the Conservative Party.

What

Labour wants to do is to reach a

0:33:120:33:15

position where we have a good

relationship with the EU has Brexit,

0:33:150:33:20

because Britain is leaving the

European Union and Labour accepts

0:33:200:33:23

and respect the outcome of the

referendum, and we want a post

0:33:230:33:26

Brexit Britain where the economy and

jobs is put first, not fixated on

0:33:260:33:31

structures. That is the end goal we

want to reach, will return as they

0:33:310:33:34

good trading relationship with the

EU and the rest of the world. --

0:33:340:33:41

where Britain has a good trading

relationship. And we want to protect

0:33:410:33:44

environmental rights and workers as

well.

The Tories would say they are

0:33:440:33:49

interested in those things as well

but there has to be a structure

0:33:490:33:53

around this when we have an in-state

relationship with the EU. Is it fair

0:33:530:33:56

to say you want a closer

relationship than the government is

0:33:560:34:03

arguing for?

We have set out the

vision of what we want in terms of

0:34:030:34:07

Britain post Brexit. The problem

that Theresa May as with negotiating

0:34:070:34:11

is that, at the same time as

negotiating with Brussels, she has

0:34:110:34:14

two negotiate with her backbenchers

and the extreme caucus in the

0:34:140:34:21

Conservative Party who are

ideological fixated on structures

0:34:210:34:24

and the ECJ, and that raised -- that

has really weakened her, as we saw

0:34:240:34:31

in Parliament.

We will have to have

answers on those questions. If you

0:34:310:34:34

say you are ready to form a

government within the next year,

0:34:340:34:39

Labour needs clear answers on these

questions about whether or not you

0:34:390:34:41

would ever consider a continuing

role for the European Court of

0:34:410:34:47

Justice, for instance.

We see it as

common sense that the ECJ should

0:34:470:34:52

play a role in the transition

period...

After that?

We are open

0:34:520:35:00

minded, because every trade deal

these institutions to protect and

0:35:000:35:02

oversee that deal. Seems like common

sense.

Tom Watson has said that he

0:35:020:35:07

wouldn't rule out a second

referendum on Brexit, and Jeremy

0:35:070:35:11

Corbyn a few weeks ago in Lisbon

said something similar. Would you be

0:35:110:35:13

in favour of a second referendum?

Labour isn't calling for a second

0:35:130:35:18

referendum.

But Tom Watson said he

wouldn't run it out.

It could be the

0:35:180:35:26

case that Theresa May caves

0:35:260:35:27

wouldn't run it out.

It could be the

case that Theresa May caves in and

0:35:270:35:28

starts asking for another

referendum, I doubt that we are not

0:35:280:35:33

in government I can say clearly we

are not arguing for a second

0:35:330:35:38

referendum, and I think that was

made clear on Andrew Marr earlier

0:35:380:35:42

today by Diane Abbott.

Whatever the

end relationship between the UK and

0:35:420:35:46

EU, is it important you and to

Labour that we see lower levels of

0:35:460:35:53

immigration from the EU?

We want to

put the economy and jobs first and,

0:35:530:35:56

if you listen to the public sector

and the NHS, the care sector, they

0:35:560:36:00

are clear that the role EU migrants

have played and are playing is

0:36:000:36:07

essential to growth, essential to

the private sector, but also

0:36:070:36:09

essential to our NHS as well.

That

sounds like you don't want lower

0:36:090:36:16

levels of immigration after we

leave.

We want to put jobs and

0:36:160:36:20

economy first, we want fair and

reasonably managed migration, but

0:36:200:36:25

free movement as it is will end when

Britain leaves the EU and we will

0:36:250:36:28

need a new arrangement that is fair

and reasonably managed. We want to

0:36:280:36:34

put and the public economy first.

The Conservatives have a bad track

0:36:340:36:37

record of making headline grabbing

false promises on immigration but

0:36:370:36:45

never meeting those targets.

You are

an enthusiastic supporter of Richard

0:36:450:36:50

Leonard, the new leader of the

Scottish Labour Party. You have

0:36:500:36:54

called him an inspiring socialist in

the past. Are you hoping the UK

0:36:540:36:57

Labour manifesto will copy some of

his rather more radical Labour

0:36:570:37:01

ideas?

It is for the Scottish Labour

Party to decide Scottish policy.

But

0:37:010:37:07

do you want to some of his ideas

replicated nationwide?

We agree on

0:37:070:37:13

most things, and Richard Leonard

supported the UK wide manifesto in

0:37:130:37:21

2011, he enthusiastically supported

the minimum wage rise, taking

0:37:210:37:23

railways back into public ownership.

What about the idea for a one-off

0:37:230:37:29

wealth tax, 1% of the total wealth

of the richest 10% being paid?

That

0:37:290:37:36

is a matter for the Scottish Labour

Party.

But would you like the same

0:37:360:37:43

thing adopted nationwide?

Our

manifesto isn't decided by Shadow

0:37:430:37:46

Cabinet members making declarations

on the Sunday Politics.

But you are

0:37:460:37:51

allowed a view.

Our manifesto was

reached on a consensus basis, not

0:37:510:37:59

only the Shadow Cabinet and

Parliamentary Labour Party but with

0:37:590:38:02

members all over the country. We are

now the biggest political party in

0:38:020:38:05

Western Europe. It will be for me to

be making policy decisions live on

0:38:050:38:09

air. We believe in the politics of

consensus and collectivism and we

0:38:090:38:14

will be taking that forward with our

next manifesto.

Some viewers may not

0:38:140:38:19

know that, as well as being a Labour

MP, you present a heavy metal show

0:38:190:38:24

on your local radio station, so we

have a click to listen to.

0:38:240:38:27

The new album of Vallenfyre

is called Fear Those Who Fear Him,

0:38:270:38:29

and it's so heavy, it feels painful

to listen to, in a good way.

0:38:290:38:33

Let's see if you agree.

0:38:330:38:34

This song is by Vallenfyre and it's

called An Apathetic Grave.

0:38:340:38:38

METAL GUITAR RIFF.

0:38:380:38:42

MUSIC: An Apathetic

Grave by Vallentyre.

0:38:420:38:50

Clearly, you are a big heavy metal

band. Jeremy Corbyn told the NME you

0:38:500:38:54

listen to everything from Mahler to

piped music, but he has never

0:38:540:38:58

mentioned heavy metal. Can you

introduce him to some of your

0:38:580:39:01

favourite tracks?

I could do. Jeremy

has been on the front page of

0:39:010:39:09

Kerrang, and what was nice was that

he didn't pretend to like heavy

0:39:090:39:11

metal. It's good he set that. Far

more refreshing than when David

0:39:110:39:16

Cameron used to pretend to like the

Smiths.

0:39:160:39:18

It's coming up to 11:40,

you're watching the Sunday Politics.

0:39:190:39:21

And, remember this?

0:39:210:39:25

We have agreed that the government

should call a general election.

0:39:250:39:27

You're joking...

Not another one!

0:39:270:39:31

When we come back, we'll be taking

a look back at the year in politics,

0:39:310:39:35

and what a year it's been.

0:39:350:39:36

Hello and welcome to Sunday Politics

in Northern Ireland.

0:39:450:39:47

It's been a year dominated

by negotiations -

0:39:470:39:49

at Stormont and in Brussels.

0:39:490:39:52

As progress is made in Belgium,

we'll hear from Sinn Fein's northern

0:39:520:39:55

leader about the prospect

of progress here.

0:39:550:39:59

The Brexit talks finally moved

to the next phase this week -

0:39:590:40:01

and in Brussels I asked

the Irish Minister for

0:40:010:40:04

European Affairs what happens next?

0:40:040:40:09

This is a backstop. This is in the

absence of a free trade agreement or

0:40:090:40:14

a new relationship being developed

pain the UK and the EU and that's

0:40:140:40:19

obviously going to be the first port

of call.

0:40:190:40:21

obviously going to be

the first port of call.

0:40:210:40:23

And throughout the programme

we'll have analysis

0:40:230:40:25

from Professor Deirdre Heenan

and columnist Newton Emerson.

0:40:250:40:31

It's been nearly twelve months

since Michelle O'Neill

0:40:310:40:33

succeeded Martin McGuinness

as Sinn Fein's northern leader.

0:40:330:40:35

And while she's overseen electoral

success for the party,

0:40:350:40:37

the Assembly chamber has sat silent

since March and months of seemingly

0:40:370:40:40

endless talks between Sinn Fein

and the DUP have borne no fruit.

0:40:400:40:42

And as the European Union

slowly works its way

0:40:420:40:45

through the Brexit process,

local politicians have had no formal

0:40:450:40:47

voice in the process.

0:40:470:40:52

So will 2018 bring better fortunes

for the local political scene?

0:40:520:40:54

Michelle O'Neill joins me live

from her Mid-Ulster constituency.

0:40:540:41:02

Thanks for joining us. If you had

known a year ago how things were

0:41:020:41:07

going to turn out over the past

year, would you still have taken the

0:41:070:41:10

job?

Absolutely. Good morning. Of course

0:41:100:41:14

I would have. I was very honoured to

take on the role from Martin

0:41:140:41:20

McGuinness which was a very good

personal start for me to the year,

0:41:200:41:23

but that was quickly followed by the

loss of Martin McGuinness, who

0:41:230:41:27

suddenly died. That still continues

to hurt us all in terms of being

0:41:270:41:30

able to carry on the work that he

was very much committed to. I think

0:41:300:41:34

that of course I would have taken on

the role, knowing that politics is

0:41:340:41:37

going to be in our pants down

affair, that you need to be able to

0:41:370:41:40

roll with other challengers put in

front of you and giving people hope

0:41:400:41:47

for the future.

The whole thing has run into the

0:41:470:41:49

sand. You said again this week it is

the DUP's fought that power-sharing

0:41:490:41:54

has not been restored. Is that in

fact right because the DUP says it

0:41:540:41:59

has no red lines. It goes back into

the executive tomorrow, while your

0:41:590:42:02

back doing the job you are being

paid to do has run the country. You

0:42:020:42:08

won't have that.

Well, I think the way we need to

0:42:080:42:14

look at it is the fact that the DUP

are blocking peoples rights. These

0:42:140:42:17

are not silly sod and side dishes

that be dealt with in time. These

0:42:170:42:21

are fundamental issues. At the heart

of the Good Friday Agreement was

0:42:210:42:27

mutual respect and that is a

principle the DUP have not taken on

0:42:270:42:31

board. We need to look after all the

systems we are elected to look after

0:42:310:42:35

and they have blocked peoples

rights. Whether that be legacy

0:42:350:42:39

inquest rights language rights, so

the blockage firmly falls at the

0:42:390:42:43

feet of the DUP. We want to be in

institutions. Sinn Fein believe and

0:42:430:42:47

have worked the institutions because

we believe they are right for the

0:42:470:42:50

people here, that

0:42:500:43:00

they serve the people well.

It only if they work for all of the

0:43:000:43:03

people. Throughout the course of

this year the electorate have come

0:43:030:43:06

out in the biggest number seen since

the Good Friday Agreement because

0:43:060:43:08

they endorse that position. The

difficulty is, you have got a set of

0:43:080:43:10

issues that you think you cannot

compromise on, and John O'Dowd told

0:43:100:43:13

me recently that Sinn Fein would

compromise on previously made

0:43:130:43:15

compromises. So all the compromise

has to happen from the DUP. The

0:43:150:43:17

difficulty of them are other issues

now that have come onto the stage

0:43:170:43:20

the need to be dealt with as well

which are not being dealt with. Like

0:43:200:43:24

Brexit, like the health service

crisis, an education service in

0:43:240:43:27

crisis, legacy issue is not

resolved, historical abuse not been

0:43:270:43:31

dealt with. You're still holding

fast to the issues that are primary

0:43:310:43:36

concern to you where the other

issues are not being resolved.

0:43:360:43:39

Well, of course, these issues are

not a primary concern. They're not

0:43:390:43:42

just Sinn Fein's issues, they are

society's issues. If you look at the

0:43:420:43:45

year that has been and the issues at

the heart of the political impasse,

0:43:450:43:50

take the Good Friday Agreement, a

quality of esteem, aim mutual

0:43:500:43:56

respect, if that does not happen the

Government does not serve people

0:43:560:43:59

well. I believe the people

understand exactly what this is all

0:43:590:44:01

about, what the current political

impasse is all about. I want to be

0:44:010:44:07

backing institutions, want to go in

and tackle the issues of public

0:44:070:44:11

austerity which has been a direct

impact of the Government's impact

0:44:110:44:14

here. I want to tackle the issues of

historical abuse, I want to be in

0:44:140:44:21

the institutions and standing up for

the majority of people here have

0:44:210:44:24

voted to remain within the European

Union.

0:44:240:44:26

But it is your choice to play it in

this particular way. Nobody is

0:44:260:44:31

denying for a second that there are

lots of issues that need to be

0:44:310:44:35

resolved and need to be worked

through and they are very difficult

0:44:350:44:38

issues, clearly. But you need to

stand at the side of the pitch,

0:44:380:44:42

holding the ball, you are refusing

to hold the ball. The DUP's position

0:44:420:44:46

is bring the ball onto the pitch

with you and let's play the game

0:44:460:44:49

together, let's work our way through

it like mature adults. Why don't you

0:44:490:44:52

meet them halfway?

We have met them have way many

0:44:520:45:04

times. They have to serve all the

people. They have an innate

0:45:040:45:09

repeatedly on their agreements both

privately and publicly. They failed

0:45:090:45:11

to deliver rights for all citizens.

That is not a good Government. That

0:45:110:45:14

is not a Government people have

confidence in. Will only serve the

0:45:140:45:20

people of people believe in them and

they think there are politicians

0:45:200:45:22

elected to deliver for them. I want

to give hope to people because I do

0:45:220:45:27

believe that this can be done. But

it can only be done there is

0:45:270:45:30

political will that. If you look at

the year that has from the start of

0:45:300:45:34

the year were recorded an end to the

arrogance and disrespect. If you

0:45:340:45:40

look at the fact that people are now

alive to politics because of the

0:45:400:45:43

political situation here but also

because of Brexit, if you look at

0:45:430:45:46

the fact that there is now a

Nationalist revival, I think all of

0:45:460:45:49

this and contributed about the

people are now participating in

0:45:490:45:52

democracy. They're making sure their

voices heard. That is the kind of

0:45:520:45:55

society I want to be part of the

society I want to be a political

0:45:550:45:58

leader in.

The Minister for foreign affairs

0:45:580:46:05

says he has spoken at length to the

Secretary of State. Progress has

0:46:050:46:09

been made. There is a must take

opportunity to get an executive

0:46:090:46:12

back. You've said the current

process is dead and water but you

0:46:120:46:16

did speak to the Secretary of State

on Thursday, I understand, can you

0:46:160:46:20

tell people that there is the

possibility of talks getting under

0:46:200:46:23

way sooner rather than later? And

that our politicians might actually

0:46:230:46:26

get back to the job that we are

currently paying them to do?

0:46:260:46:32

Sinn Fein for a party of dialogue.

We're always open to conversation

0:46:320:46:37

and we're always open wanting to

resolve the current political

0:46:370:46:39

impasse. But the definition, and we

keep doing the same way, and

0:46:390:46:47

expecting to get a different

outcome. We have had a DUP

0:46:470:46:51

disinterested, disengaged, but

perhaps too concerned about the

0:46:510:46:53

interests of people in Bristol,

London from across the water, then

0:46:530:46:57

they have been about people here. So

I think that if we're going to have

0:46:570:47:00

any kind of meaningful process, and

it has to be meaningful because we

0:47:000:47:04

can't go back at hamster wheel, and

keep talking the issues out. What we

0:47:040:47:06

need is years resolution. The

blockage is firmly at the feet of

0:47:060:47:10

the DUP. Sinn Fein will not be able

to re-establish those institutions.

0:47:100:47:16

We wholeheartedly believe in them

and I need a Unionist partner in

0:47:160:47:20

Government. I want to lead, the

principle of the Good Friday

0:47:200:47:22

Agreement is how we come together. I

need a union is partying in

0:47:220:47:27

Government who will deliver rights

for all citizens, who is prepared to

0:47:270:47:29

deal with issues of sectarianism in

our society and heal the wounds of

0:47:290:47:35

the past.

We have heard you say that before

0:47:350:47:37

and the DUP interprets things in a

different way. I just wonder, on a

0:47:370:47:40

wider issue, if you don't feel

completely sidelined by the current

0:47:400:47:43

state of affairs, Sinn Fein has been

totally marginalised by not been

0:47:430:47:46

able to use as big as platform which

is the Stormont Assembly and a key

0:47:460:47:51

position of Deputy First Minister.

While big decisions are being taken

0:47:510:47:55

in Belfast, London and stand with

that ball on the side of the pitch

0:47:550:48:02

in perpetuity.

You need to get back onto that pitch

0:48:020:48:04

as soon as possible.

I don't agree with you. We are

0:48:040:48:08

firmly on the pitch. If you look at

how influential we have been able to

0:48:080:48:11

be in terms of holding the Dublin

Government to account and making

0:48:110:48:16

sure they stand up to the national

interest and protect the Good Friday

0:48:160:48:18

Agreement.

He is getting on and doing it. He is

0:48:180:48:21

paying no attention to you.

If you let me finish. We have been

0:48:210:48:28

able to hold the Irish Government's

speech to the fire. Our MEPs have

0:48:280:48:33

been extremely effective making sure

the other EU 27 member states

0:48:330:48:37

actually understand origin

acceptance answers here. I feel very

0:48:370:48:39

confident about the position and the

role that we play. I myself have

0:48:390:48:43

been out in Europe and have engaged

with EU leaders. I will continue to

0:48:430:48:46

do that because I will put the

interests of the people first. I

0:48:460:48:49

stand up for cross community

majority that voted to remain within

0:48:490:48:53

the European Union.

There is another way of looking at

0:48:530:48:55

it, with respect.

Let us look at the numbers. Let's

0:48:550:49:01

not overplay Sinn Fein's hand here.

You've got seven Westminster seats

0:49:010:49:06

out of them. 23 out of 158. 14%. For

seats out of 751 in Europe. That is

0:49:060:49:18

half of 1%. You've got very big

ideas of how influential you are.

0:49:180:49:21

When you look at the numbers, not so

very influential.

0:49:210:49:26

I think we have been very

influential. I don't agree with you.

0:49:260:49:29

We take our seats and we go out use

the position of people give us, the

0:49:290:49:33

mandate that people give us to stand

up for the people here. In terms of

0:49:330:49:37

the Brexit debate I think we have

very effective and we will continue

0:49:370:49:40

to be very effective. We've seen in

the last couple of weeks and move to

0:49:400:49:44

the next age, but that is by no

means a final day. We need to be

0:49:440:49:47

very, very birds vigilant. If there

was an incision up and running

0:49:470:49:54

tomorrow, ourselves and the DP would

not be on the same page. -- DUP.

0:49:540:50:00

There won't be one single collective

voice. But I want that. Despite all

0:50:000:50:04

the challenges, because I believe

that is how we best serve the

0:50:040:50:08

people.

And sorry for cutting a pushy.

0:50:080:50:13

Explain to me why, if Sinn Fein is

so influential and so much at the

0:50:130:50:19

centre of this ongoing process, 200

representatives from civic

0:50:190:50:21

nationalism he had felt it necessary

to write asking for someone to speak

0:50:210:50:26

up. They went over your head to

appeal to him to represent because

0:50:260:50:31

Northern politicians are not able to

do it.

0:50:310:50:33

You must be embarrassed by that. Not

at all. I think is great. I think we

0:50:330:50:38

should see a lot more of it. I think

that's participating the democracy.

0:50:380:50:45

What is great about that?

Look exactly at what they signed up

0:50:450:50:53

to. They want equality and respect

in Government in the north. They

0:50:530:50:56

want to act in the national interest

and that is what I've been saying.

0:50:560:50:59

So I think it is a great thing. I

want to see more people standing up

0:50:590:51:03

and articulating their voice. It is

an awakened Nationalist voice to me

0:51:030:51:08

is one of the most significant

things we've seen the share.

0:51:080:51:18

Rather than people elected in

Northern Ireland to speak up to

0:51:180:51:21

them? Because they are not doing

their job.

0:51:210:51:24

That is what that letter actually

says when you look at it. I don't

0:51:240:51:27

agree with you. If you look at any

of the people who went on any of

0:51:270:51:32

your programmes this week, that's

not what they meant. It is not an

0:51:320:51:36

either or scenario. It is not one

thing or the other. But they were

0:51:360:51:39

saying is we are assertive, we're

standing up for our rights, we will

0:51:390:51:42

not tolerate being treated as

second-class citizens and. We want

0:51:420:51:48

to act for Irish Nationalists

because they have been disrespected

0:51:480:51:50

in the current process.

I think it is a very positive thing

0:51:500:51:52

I want to see a lot more of it.

We

will leave it there.

0:51:520:51:55

We will leave it there.

0:51:550:51:56

Michelle O'Neill, thank you.

0:51:560:51:58

Let's hear the thoughts of

Newton Emerson and Deirdre Heenan.

0:51:580:52:04

Well, there is no sign of any

compromise coming from Sinn Fein.

0:52:040:52:08

That analysis from Michelle is the

same analysis we heard two months

0:52:080:52:11

ago, six months ago, ten months ago.

You are going to get a statement now

0:52:110:52:16

because the holidays are coming up

and because a British Irish summit

0:52:160:52:22

has been announced in the New Year.

It makes no sense for Sinn Fein to

0:52:220:52:25

do anything ahead of that to see

what they can get out of it, or to

0:52:250:52:28

see if they can pin the blame on him

for getting nothing out of it. There

0:52:280:52:31

was not sense in the DUP giving

hostages to fortune. She repeatedly

0:52:310:52:39

referred to Nationalist rising in

confidence and a new Nationalist

0:52:390:52:41

mood of assertiveness and

confidence. And I wonder if perhaps

0:52:410:52:44

this is how Sinn Fein will approach

this whole idea of returning to

0:52:440:52:47

Stormont with a mutual respect

because that is a very difficult

0:52:470:52:54

thing to prove, on concrete thing

that you can't put that in law. Apps

0:52:540:52:57

would be easier for them to go back

to Stormont and say we have more

0:52:570:53:00

self-respect now.

She was very positive about that

0:53:000:53:06

letter from northern nationalism,

civic nationalism, 200 people saying

0:53:060:53:09

this is how we see it, this is what

we want and we want him to speak up

0:53:090:53:13

in the national interest.

Do you see it that way? It is

0:53:130:53:15

complete nonsense. It is designed to

deflect from the fact that they have

0:53:150:53:21

delivered nothing. In the last six

months they have lost momentum. You

0:53:210:53:23

may say they were about to bring

down institutions at the time but in

0:53:230:53:26

the last number weeks it is quite

clear that they had been sidelined.

0:53:260:53:29

They have been evident in the con

crustaceans letter man: around

0:53:290:53:33

Europe. They fell in comparison to

him. He stood up for Ireland made it

0:53:330:53:39

clear what he wants and has not

resigned from that position. They

0:53:390:53:43

have no power in Belfast, an

apparent Dublin, no power in London

0:53:430:53:49

and nonexistent in Brussels. The

only way they will achieve power is

0:53:490:53:53

by getting those institutions back

up and running. A letter? Is that

0:53:530:53:56

the best they can do. They need to

understand that with power comes

0:53:560:54:00

responsibility. And they have a

responsibility to the people who

0:54:000:54:02

voted for them to ensure that their

voices heard.

0:54:020:54:06

How much influence to the two main

parties here having all that? I put

0:54:060:54:10

those statistics in terms of

influence to Michelle O'Neill. She

0:54:100:54:16

makes the case we are very

influential people, listen to us.

0:54:160:54:18

The numbers don't necessarily

suggest that. The DUP was not seven

0:54:180:54:22

French Open Thursday night.

They were playing a good media game

0:54:220:54:28

in Brussels but the fact is, they

keep overreaching. Sinn Fein

0:54:280:54:35

proposed its own complete draft on

board a resolution which the

0:54:350:54:37

European Parliament completely

ignored because wanted to do up its

0:54:370:54:39

own. They are engaging in stunts in

Brussels. But of course Michelle

0:54:390:54:46

O'Neill is correct that historical

back together tomorrow there would

0:54:460:54:51

not be a consistent view and

regulatory convergence for example.

0:54:510:54:54

That is one reason why perform at

the Assembly should look at

0:54:540:54:58

reforming the petition of concern so

that the Assembly could reach a

0:54:580:55:00

consensus view. It would not be a

see border versus the land border

0:55:000:55:03

tussle.

We'll pause there for just a second.

0:55:030:55:07

We'll pause there for just a second.

0:55:070:55:09

Not surprisingly, given the absence

of any politics locally,

0:55:090:55:11

it's been a week dominated

by Brexit and the border -

0:55:110:55:13

here it is in sixty seconds.

0:55:130:55:23

Again, Mr Speaker, there are

conflicting statements. This time

0:55:250:55:27

between the Brexit secretary and, of

course, the Brexit secretary. So who

0:55:270:55:37

is running the UK?

Is it Arlene Foster or the Right

0:55:370:55:41

Honourable member for Maidenhead?

Can I thank the Prime Minister for

0:55:410:55:44

her personal devotion?

I am grateful for the contributions

0:55:440:55:46

that were made us as they do it

right.

0:55:460:55:57

That is the main message. We

Europeans have secured the Irish

0:55:570:56:00

interest. I hope that some of the

people who perhaps supported Brexit

0:56:000:56:03

and campaign for that would realise

or at least acknowledge that they

0:56:030:56:06

are the ones who created this

problem and I am one of the people

0:56:060:56:10

trying to resolve it.

The border is back in Irish politics

0:56:100:56:14

that opens up its own problems, its

own toxicity.

0:56:140:56:17

Nothing of the last 24 hours has

gone anyway to solving that. But

0:56:170:56:20

what Theresa May been able to do is

push that fight into next year.

0:56:200:56:24

push that fight into next year.

0:56:250:56:27

Finally, on Friday, after weeks

of political turmoil,

0:56:270:56:29

that long-awaited agreement

on the first phase of Brexit

0:56:290:56:31

negotiations was ratified at the EU

Council summit in Brussels.

0:56:310:56:37

The Prime Minister hailed it

as an 'important step on the road

0:56:370:56:40

to delivering a smooth and orderly

Brexit'.

0:56:400:56:43

But there were warnings that

if phase one was tough -

0:56:430:56:46

phase two will be tougher.

0:56:460:56:47

I was in Brussels for the summit

where I caught up with

0:56:470:56:50

the Irish Minister for EU affairs,

Helen McEntee, and I began

0:56:500:56:53

by asking her what happens next?

0:56:530:57:00

What we need to do now, looking

forward, is essentially take that

0:57:000:57:03

agreement, put it into a legally

binding document or treaty, which

0:57:030:57:08

would be essentially dubbed for

treaty. We then need to look at the

0:57:080:57:12

transition period and to make it

concrete so that we know exactly

0:57:120:57:14

what it will look like and what kind

of timeline will be on it as well.

0:57:140:57:19

It also, in that time, we need to

start looking at the kind of

0:57:190:57:23

framework, as to how phase two will

actually take place and what that

0:57:230:57:26

will look like, so obviously phase

one was very distinct with three

0:57:260:57:30

clear strands and three clear

focuses. What would face to look

0:57:300:57:33

like? Between now and March that is

the work that will happen and then

0:57:330:57:36

from March onwards that is when

we're going to start looking at what

0:57:360:57:39

kind of a future there will be

between the UK and the rest of the

0:57:390:57:43

EU and obviously island wants to

have wanted that phase as soon as

0:57:430:57:46

possible.

But those will not be formal trade

0:57:460:57:48

talks. That will be discussion about

the framework for those trade talks?

0:57:480:57:56

Well, I suppose, essentially, they

will be getting into various

0:57:560:57:58

different sectors, various different

areas and starting to look at what

0:57:580:58:02

that relationship will be because

we're talking about, I suppose, at

0:58:020:58:04

the moment a transition period of

two years. To say you couldn't have

0:58:040:58:08

a discussion about the future

relationship between now and then,

0:58:080:58:12

you know, I don't think that's

possible. Start to look at various

0:58:120:58:16

different sectors, various different

industries and how, I suppose, we

0:58:160:58:20

can form this relationship and this

agreement that the UK and the rest

0:58:200:58:22

of the EU wants to form so that we

have the closest possible

0:58:220:58:26

relationship that we can and

obviously, I think, in the absence

0:58:260:58:28

of that happening this is why we

have been so, I suppose, consistent

0:58:280:58:35

and wanting our very clear

particularly around the Irish uses,

0:58:350:58:38

around the border, since insisting

there is no hard border.

0:58:380:58:47

In the joint report, which was the

deal on phase one, the UK is

0:58:470:58:50

required as a backstop position to

maintain full alignment with the

0:58:500:58:54

single market of the customs union.

He was very clear about that over

0:58:540:58:59

the conference that that was very

straightforward. It was very simple,

0:58:590:59:03

it is not in anyway complicated. He

said he did not need to spin it in

0:59:030:59:07

anyway. The reality is, though,

Unionists don't see of the way she

0:59:070:59:10

sees it and a lot of conservatives

don't see it way she sees it.

0:59:100:59:14

It is open to interpretation.

I

think the wedding is very clear. And

0:59:140:59:17

we've been very consistent

throughout, with our request that

0:59:170:59:23

irrespective of what happens there

cannot be a hard border on the

0:59:230:59:26

island of Ireland. The wedding is

very specific in the absence of the

0:59:260:59:30

trade deal and negotiations

happening between the UK and the

0:59:300:59:32

rest of the European Union, there

would be full alignment in relation

0:59:320:59:36

to the single market and the customs

union. Areas that pertained to the

0:59:360:59:40

Good Friday Agreement. Areas of

cooperation, North and south. So

0:59:400:59:44

that is very clear and it means that

the status quo will remain. What we

0:59:440:59:50

have now is additional wording from

the first draft of the document that

0:59:500:59:53

was previously, in the week, where

there was additional wording to say

0:59:530:59:57

that there would be no barriers of

trade between east and west. There

0:59:571:00:02

is alignment north and south than

that alignment will then follow

1:00:021:00:05

through east and west. So that is

busy something getting into phase

1:00:051:00:07

two that have to see how that

transpires.

1:00:071:00:11

One of the policy areas that might

be affected by the maintenance of

1:00:111:00:15

full alignment, if that position is

what ultimately happens, do you see

1:00:151:00:18

it as a very small number of policy

areas identified in the Good Friday

1:00:181:00:21

Agreement?

Could it a lot more than that some

1:00:211:00:23

people are suggesting?

I think, when

you look at it in the context of the

1:00:231:00:28

wedding, it is very clear we're

talking about the Good Friday

1:00:281:00:31

Agreement, we're talking about areas

of cooperation, north and south, we

1:00:311:00:35

should be the 142 and possibly more

that haven't been identified yet,

1:00:351:00:39

but also the economy.

So it is big. There is a lot of work

1:00:391:00:42

I think and what it is very clear

about is it is not just the present,

1:00:421:00:46

any changes that might happen into

the future, linked to the economy

1:00:461:00:50

and the Good Friday Agreement. So

you have to take that into account.

1:00:501:00:53

There is a huge amount of work on it

but obviously again we're saying

1:00:531:00:56

that this is a backstop. This is in

the absence of a free-trade

1:00:561:01:00

agreement all a new relationship

being developed between the UK and

1:01:001:01:03

the EU, and I think that is busy

going to be the first port of call.

1:01:031:01:10

Helen McAntee speaking

to me in Brussels.

1:01:101:01:12

Phase one is at an end and phase two

is going to be even more difficult.

1:01:121:01:17

A lot more needs to be discussed.

What about this issue of maintaining

1:01:171:01:21

full alignment?

It means to different things to the

1:01:211:01:22

British and Irish governments? It

can mean two different things to the

1:01:221:01:26

governments and they cancelled it

out. If we simply allow them to move

1:01:261:01:32

to the second stage. Think it's

constructive ambiguity. They will

1:01:321:01:34

have to work out what it means. What

Theresa May, she's going back now

1:01:341:01:39

having really extracted no

concessions from the EU. She will

1:01:391:01:44

conflict in the Cabinet and conflict

within her own party. Already people

1:01:441:01:47

in her own party are saying we want

a transition period and if there is

1:01:471:01:50

a transition period we don't want to

be partners within the EU making

1:01:501:01:55

brooms. So she's got conflict over

the place and she's got to go with a

1:01:551:01:58

united front to try to negotiate

with the EU and that'll be

1:01:581:02:02

difficulty, putting on that front

and deciding exactly what the UK

1:02:021:02:08

want the relationship to look like.

Constructive ambiguity is fine for a

1:02:081:02:11

while and then it as an awful habit

of unravelling.

1:02:111:02:16

And the agreement became more

ambiguous as last week went on. This

1:02:161:02:19

all Ireland economy reference that

she mentioned there, that wasn't

1:02:191:02:25

there on Monday. Suddenly it has

appeared. The only effect the DUP

1:02:251:02:32

had on the deal was to make it worse

from their perspective.

1:02:321:02:38

Thank you very much for today and

for your contribution over the last

1:02:381:02:40

few months.

1:02:401:02:41

few months.

1:02:411:02:41

That's it for now,

and indeed for 2017.

1:02:421:02:43

Welcome back.

1:02:471:02:49

You'll often hear people on TV shows

like this one in December

1:02:491:02:52

reflecting on what a momentous year

it's been in politics.

1:02:521:02:54

Well, this time we really mean it...

1:02:541:02:56

Again.

1:02:561:02:57

We sent Ellie Price off for a gentle

stroll through the events

1:02:571:03:00

that have shaped 2017.

1:03:001:03:02

2017 was shaped by what happened

when Theresa May went for a hike

1:03:041:03:07

with her husband in April and came

back with a jolly good idea.

1:03:071:03:11

I have just chaired a meeting

of the Cabinet where we agreed

1:03:111:03:15

that the Government should call

a general election to be

1:03:151:03:18

held on the 8th of June.

1:03:181:03:22

General election.

1:03:221:03:23

You're joking.

1:03:231:03:24

Not another one!

1:03:241:03:27

The path to victory seemed so clear.

1:03:271:03:29

Article 50 had been triggered,

the Tories had won a by-election,

1:03:291:03:32

and they made big gains

across the country at

1:03:321:03:35

the local elections,

at the expense of Ukip,

1:03:351:03:37

whose vote collapsed, and Labour.

1:03:371:03:41

Yes, we have to go out

there in the next four weeks

1:03:411:03:43

and get our message out.

1:03:431:03:46

Labour launched a manifesto that

called for the renationalisation

1:03:461:03:48

of the water companies and an end

to tuition fees.

1:03:481:03:51

This is a programme of hope.

1:03:511:03:54

The Tory campaign, by contrast,

is built on one word, fear.

1:03:541:03:59

The Tories, meanwhile,

unveiled a document that included

1:03:591:04:04

scrapping free school lunches

for children in England and a

1:04:041:04:06

shake-up of the social care system.

1:04:061:04:09

Let us all go forward together.

1:04:091:04:10

APPLAUSE.

1:04:101:04:13

But then the way forward wasn't

so obvious, and Theresa May

1:04:131:04:16

was forced into a U-turn

on social care.

1:04:161:04:19

Nothing has changed.

1:04:191:04:21

Nothing has changed.

1:04:221:04:25

Then she refused to take part in any

head-to-head televised debates.

1:04:251:04:29

The Prime Minister

is not here tonight.

1:04:291:04:32

She can't be bothered,

so why should you?

1:04:321:04:36

In fact, Bake Off

is on BBC Two next.

1:04:361:04:39

It wasn't Bake Off, but she did go

on the TV and talk about the bins,

1:04:391:04:43

and it all seemed a bit cringey.

1:04:431:04:46

I get to decide when I take the bins

out, not if I take them out.

1:04:461:04:50

LAUGHTER.

1:04:501:04:52

But, I mean...

1:04:521:04:54

There's boy jobs and

girl jobs, you see.

1:04:541:04:56

Oh, really?

1:04:561:04:57

What, boy jobs...

1:04:571:04:58

And then there was that weird time

the Prime Minister was asked

1:04:581:05:01

what was the naughtiest thing she'd

ever done as a child.

1:05:011:05:03

She said it was to run

through a field of wheat.

1:05:031:05:07

Come on, Ed.

1:05:071:05:08

Come on, Ed.

1:05:091:05:10

# The hills are alive with the sound

of music...#

1:05:101:05:17

Meanwhile, Jeremy Corbyn

was positively frolicking out

1:05:171:05:21

on the campaign trail,

greeted like a rock star

1:05:211:05:24

at his well-attended rallies.

1:05:241:05:27

The other party leaders also

had their challenges.

1:05:271:05:29

You won't say whether you think

having gay sex is a sin.

1:05:291:05:32

Winning those 56 seats

will be a huge challenge

1:05:321:05:35

for Nicola Sturgeon's party.

1:05:351:05:37

Ruth Davidson has predicted

that we've hit a peak

1:05:371:05:40

and the only way is down.

1:05:401:05:42

This party...

1:05:421:05:44

Hello.

1:05:441:05:45

And what we are saying

is that the Conservatives

1:05:451:05:49

are the largest party.

1:05:491:05:51

Note they don't have an overall

majority at this stage.

1:05:511:05:54

Deal or no deal, Mrs Foster?

1:05:541:05:56

The Conservatives lost 12 seats,

creating a hung parliament -

1:05:561:05:59

so, 18 days after the election,

Theresa May did a deal

1:05:591:06:02

with the Democratic Unionist Party's

ten MPs from Northern Ireland.

1:06:021:06:06

Meanwhile, Jeremy Corbyn

was hanging out with his

1:06:061:06:09

new mates at Glastonbury.

1:06:091:06:12

CROWD: # Oh, Jeremy Corbyn...#

1:06:121:06:15

With the election over, Brexit

negotiations dominated the summer,

1:06:151:06:17

and keeping control of her own party

was an uphill struggle for the PM.

1:06:171:06:21

That's why everyone was focused

on her conference speech,

1:06:211:06:25

including a prankster.

1:06:251:06:27

Boris, job done there.

1:06:271:06:30

An errant frog...

1:06:301:06:31

SHE COUGHS.

1:06:311:06:33

Excuse me.

1:06:331:06:34

The deficit is back

to pre-crisis levels...

1:06:341:06:35

And then the scenery that fell down.

1:06:351:06:38

The PM put on a brave face

and was supported by her husband,

1:06:381:06:41

and later her Cabinet,

after some whispering

1:06:411:06:43

about her leadership.

1:06:431:06:46

By the end of October,

the sexual harassment

1:06:461:06:48

scandal hit Westminster.

1:06:481:06:50

Various MPs were implicated,

and so was a Cabinet

1:06:501:06:52

minister, who stood down.

1:06:521:06:54

Below the high standards...

1:06:541:06:56

A week later, another

Cabinet resignation.

1:06:561:06:58

This time, Priti Patel,

the International Development

1:06:581:07:00

Secretary, fell on her sword over

unauthorised meetings

1:07:001:07:03

she'd had with Israeli

officials while on holiday.

1:07:031:07:05

Although there are plenty

of 27 moments Theresa May

1:07:051:07:07

would probably rather forget,

this handshake just last week

1:07:071:07:11

was a crucial breakthrough

in the Brexit negotiations.

1:07:111:07:16

The moment the EU accepted

it was time to move on and talk

1:07:161:07:20

about the future relationship.

1:07:201:07:22

Of course, that doesn't

mean negotiations next

1:07:221:07:26

year will be any easier.

1:07:261:07:29

But with everything going on this

year, 2018 couldn't possibly be

1:07:291:07:32

so frantic, could it?

1:07:321:07:41

Plenty to talk about in terms of the

big moments of last year and what's

1:07:411:07:44

likely to come in the year ahead

with our panel. I'll ask you first,

1:07:441:07:49

what was your favourite moment?

I

think it must be that exit poll

1:07:491:07:54

macro which we just saw again. The

moment that was announced, you felt

1:07:541:08:00

British politics changing in

dramatic ways, as it has done, in my

1:08:001:08:04

view. It's been the most significant

political year in terms of change

1:08:041:08:10

since 1979, even though the same

Prime Minister is in place. In that

1:08:101:08:13

second, you realise it was a myth

that a figure to the left of Tony

1:08:131:08:18

Blair would doom Labour to electoral

oblivion, you realised that young

1:08:181:08:21

people were starting to vote with

profound policy implications, which

1:08:211:08:26

we are already starting to see, and

that will continue, and you

1:08:261:08:30

recognised in that nanosecond that

she had lost the mandate for Brexit,

1:08:301:08:34

and a hung parliament would

transform the politics of Brexit, as

1:08:341:08:40

we were discussing earlier. It meant

many other things as well, that exit

1:08:401:08:43

poll. It will be a Brexit poll

another time! So it was a huge

1:08:431:08:51

moment, and I think some of it will

-- some of us will never forget it.

1:08:511:08:56

I can't believe we have crammed all

of that into a year! I think that

1:08:561:09:02

seminal week where Boris wrote his

4000 word thesis on Brexit, which

1:09:021:09:06

anyone who is a Brexiteer reading it

had Land Of Hope And Glory ringing

1:09:061:09:12

in their ears, and how that may or

may not have changed Theresa May's

1:09:121:09:16

Florence speech. Downing Street very

much road against the idea that the

1:09:161:09:22

substance was changed, but I think

there was an acceptance that his

1:09:221:09:25

Union Jack flying tone was

incorporated into that speech, and

1:09:251:09:30

it became how she set out in

Britainposition going forward.

I was

1:09:301:09:34

tempted to say the incredible walk

that reason may did with Donald

1:09:341:09:41

Trump way back in January where they

held hands. What an extra rib

1:09:411:09:45

picture that was, for those of us

out there to see what she had just

1:09:451:09:49

done full -- an incredible picture.

But I'm going to be cheeky and go

1:09:491:09:55

for another one, the conference

speech, Theresa May's. Yet again,

1:09:551:10:00

for anybody in that room, it was the

most excruciating 55 minutes of

1:10:001:10:06

anyone's political career or

journalistic career, but also a very

1:10:061:10:11

powerful metaphor for her

premiership. Things are falling

1:10:111:10:14

apart at the seams. It isn't going

at all how she planned. Yet she is

1:10:141:10:18

still there.

If we've learned

anything, it's that we shouldn't

1:10:181:10:23

make political predictions because

we will be proved wrong, but

1:10:231:10:26

make political predictions because

we will be proved wrong, but I'm

1:10:261:10:26

going to ask you for a couple for

the year ahead. Will we have a trade

1:10:261:10:30

deal by October?

We won't, not least

because the EU has said they aren't

1:10:301:10:38

going to offer one at any stage,

they are going to offer a political

1:10:381:10:42

declaration, those are the words in

the council document on Friday. We

1:10:421:10:44

might get that.

Will Theresa May

still be Prime Minister?

By

1:10:441:10:51

Christmas? What good is this time

next year. --

this time next year.

I

1:10:511:11:01

think it depends what happens in

October. She might be Prime Minister

1:11:011:11:05

but will she has set out a timetable

for a change in leadership?

1:11:051:11:08

Possibly.

And will the Cabinet look

the same?

Not entirely but I think

1:11:081:11:17

the key players will be in place. I

think it would be too disruptive to

1:11:171:11:21

change them, but that is a tentative

prediction. One -- what an

1:11:211:11:27

extraordinarily bigger Theresa May

is. She isn't an actor like most of

1:11:271:11:30

our Prime ministers but it is like

she is in a James Bond half of the

1:11:301:11:33

time. It is a glorious contrast, a

shy, dog-eared figure, and the

1:11:331:11:39

theatrics will continue into next

year, and I think she will be there.

1:11:391:11:42

-- a shy, dogged figure.

They have

tried to build a campaign about a

1:11:421:11:51

presidential style of leadership,

and she was ill suited to that, and

1:11:511:11:54

now she is using weakness as a

strength when it comes to

1:11:541:11:58

negotiating in Europe. She hasn't

really shown her cards on Brexit,

1:11:581:12:01

but it's probably to her advantage

nobody really knows exactly what

1:12:011:12:07

makes her tick, what is Willie going

on inside her head. It could be

1:12:071:12:10

nothing. Maybe it's entirely empty,

so she can be beautifully pragmatic

1:12:101:12:17

and plough her way through the

waves. Inside the bubble, she loses

1:12:171:12:23

votes, she does a terrible speech

and we kick her but, in the country,

1:12:231:12:27

the more and more people you speak

to, and they say, good on her, she

1:12:271:12:32

is getting the EU kicking her, her

side kicking her, but she still

1:12:321:12:37

carries on. The fact that she is

indefatigable...

Exhausting to say.

1:12:371:12:47

It's remarkable, so she is proving

Prime Minister of our times.

Will

1:12:471:12:51

Corbyn still be there?

He will be,

but does he want to be? What will

1:12:511:12:56

happen in goodness only knows.

Looking back at the rally, it's

1:12:561:13:02

interesting how popular and idolised

he was then in that campaigning

1:13:021:13:05

mode, which she was far better

suited to spend Theresa May, who

1:13:051:13:09

wasn't surrounded by crowds and

seemed to be standing on a podium

1:13:091:13:12

somewhere with Tory banners behind

her. I don't know. I think the shine

1:13:121:13:17

is coming off Corbyn, and I think

the more that Labour tie themselves

1:13:171:13:20

in knots over Brexit, having Richard

Burgon earlier saying, let's have

1:13:201:13:26

the ECJ ruling us for ever and not

cut immigration, that isn't going to

1:13:261:13:30

play well with Labour Brexit photos.

We will be back to discuss all this

1:13:301:13:35

next year.

1:13:351:13:36

That's all for today,

and that's all for 2017.

1:13:361:13:40

Until then, bye-bye.

1:13:401:13:43

Sarah Smith and Mark Carruthers with the latest political news, interviews and debate. The political panel comprises Camilla Tominey, Steve Richards and Tom Newton-Dunn. Topics include Brexit and the past year in politics.


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