18/03/2012 Sunday Politics Northern Ireland

Two weeks and counting, the candidates to be the next Ulster

Unionists leader have started their campaign. We ask how they plan to

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1700 seconds

deny it -- United the be divided Welcome to Sunday Politics in

Northern Ireland. The battle for the Ulster Unionist leadership

became a two-horse race when the favourite, Danny Kennedy, decided

not to enter the running. Now it is a contest between John McCallister

and Mike Nesbitt. Who can restore the fortunes of a party in decline?

Also, as the excitement builds to London 2012, are there lessons to

be learned from our failure to gain from games? Those companies will

have that experience and I have no doubt they will get feedback. If

they don't, they should and learn lessons from where they are going

next and what to do next. With an 11% pay rise for a MLAs on the way?

Which one got a respectable result in their school report? Find out in

60 seconds. With me for the next 30 minutes is

Professor Pete Shirlow from Queen's University and the News Letter's

Sam McBride. Let's talk about the contest. What do you think the

Ulster Unionists can do to halt the decline in the party's fortunes?

is a significant decline, they have lost around 90,000 votes in 1990 --

since 1998. They have to do a massive thing to claim back those

boats. They need to start with where the votes go. About half of

them probably went to the DUP. They realise that there is a significant

Unionist electorate which has become this interested at is not

articulating any desire to engage with politics. -- has become this

interested at is not. They have to build a base but they also have to

discuss our opinions. They need to find out where these voters went

away. There is an opportunity, it is about bringing people to the

electorate. A surprise that Danny Kennedy pulled out. The rumours

were going round all week. Was it too much of a poisoned chalice for

him? I think he just did not want to run. If he had decided to go for

it, he would have got a vote. He probably felt that Mike Nesbitt had

support swinging behind him and that he expected to come behind.

People might Mike Nesbitt decided to speak to the impartial reporter.

He's courted voters have been Fermanagh. If he had decided to run

he would have got a significant challenge is and decided he did not

want it, for whatever reason. It will be the fastest of

leadership races. In two weeks' time we will know who is in charge.

We would have liked to debate the issues head to head but the leaders

of the Ulster Unionist Party are insisting on separate interviews.

First stop, Mike Nesbitt and could he be the next party leader? Before

head -- that, let's to get his journey from broadcasters and

politicians. -- let's look at. It was as a sports reporter that

Mike Nesbitt made his name. He began his career at the BBC, maybe

two UTV in 1992, where he remained for 14 years. He announced he was

not renewing his contract and after a break, he re-emerged as a

Victims' Commission a, a post he resigned from in 2010. -- Victims'

Commission Now. He was a party for the ill-fated Conservative and

Ulster Unionist alliance. He lost out to Jim Shannon but was elected

as the representative for Strangford in 2011. The nine months

later he is in the running to become leader of the party. Back

his campaign launch in Stormont, he was black by supporters, including

his wife and former TV presenter, Lynda Bryans. Last time, the party

mood was for continuity. It appears the party mood today is for change.

That is why I am standing, to offer a change to revive and revitalise

this party. Mike Nesbitt joins us now. You are just in the door of

the Ulster Unionist Party and Stormont. What makes you want to be

leader? I am sensing in the last week, when Tom shock does with his

announcement that he was going to leave, I was in listening mode and

I travel as much as I could around the country. It took a lot of calls

and messages. It is surprising, to the point of shocking for some

people in the Ulster Unionist, and inspiring, but there is a mood

Albarn -- among the membership for change. It is not passive, it is a

very positive, we won't change. -- we won't change. After 14 years of

taking a bashing because of 1998, our membership is saying, it is

over, we want to be positive, we want to hold our heads up, we want

to say I am proud to be an Ulster Unionists because I believe in

values which are for the benefit of all the people of Northern Ireland.

This party is back. It could be let that in a different way and seen as

a sad reflection on a party that has been no one in its -- has no

one in its ranks it believes can take the party forward and someone

from the outside? I am not from the outside. You have had a career as a

broadcaster. Is that a bad thing? Is it a bad thing not to have your

fingerprints over the last 14 years? We used to have 10 MPs and

now we have none. Many people are looking and saying, here is a guy

who has got different ideas and it is the mood. It is not about the

person. They should not be about their leader. It is about capturing

the mood of the party and it wants to change positively. What you have

set answer for does not sound like change. You do not want to go into

opposition, or of tea Unionist Unity, it sounds similar to what we

have had? -- of Ulster Unionist unity. I want to bring in an

opposition. 14 years ago we could not have possibly survive with a

government in opposition. Is that not unlikely because the DUP and

Sinn Fein will foot against it? 1998, everybody had a chance to

vote in a referendum. There has been significant change, with the

St Andrews Agreement. There is small change, in. -- there is more

change coming. I would like a referendum on the major

constitutional changes that have occurred since 1998 in the Belfast

Agreement. Put it to be people, other parties. If they vote along

the lines that they voted on to a man, they will say no to opposition

and to keep what they have at the moment. They are the party getting

support. I was elected by just under 50% of the electorate. I have

to reach out of them. In the last two years, when I have fought

elections, people come up and say good luck. They have coming up and

they have not been thing good luck, they have said good luck and you

have to do this, we are be hind the -- behind you. In yesterday's News

Letter you mention two policies, getting rid of commissions and

quangos and getting were fixed rates for young people. Is that it?

No, that is not it. Economy is it, absolutely. I think we could do a

lot better. What I would like to have seen coming out of the

economic strategy is a message to be unemployed that we will try and

get 60,000 new jobs. That sends a message to be 60,000 unemployed,

you have less than a one in two chance of your government securing

you a job. People might argue 25,000 is more realistic. For some

observers, it is not likely? not be aspirational? Let's build a

private sector are so poor fund -- so powerful and profitable that we

depend less on the block grant, because we have built our own

economy that is so robust that we are doing fine. Do you think you

will win? That is up to the 2000 members of the Ulster Unionist

Party. If they want me. I was at church last Sunday and the sermon

was based on the idea that if it is supposed to be, it will happen.

you expecting a dirty fight? I do not think there is any evidence it

will be a dirty fight. No one in politics set out on a leadership

campaign for it to be a dirty fight. This time, the two candidates are

much more similar to each other than the last time. Basil McCrea

and Tom Elliot were very clearly different people with different

agendas. Both Mike Nesbitt and John McCallister are from broadly the

Liberal and moderate wing of the Ulster Unionist Party and there is

not really a representative of the traditional and classical Ulster

Unionist position. In some ways, there is not going to be that much

than -- other than the issue of opposition, be big issue between

them. What about the idea of a referendum? The Secretary of State

will not move on opposition unless the two bigger parties wanted.

Could we have a referendum on opposition? Both candidates have a

notion that there should be some sort of oppositional politics,

which would be good and would be more policy based as opposed to

poll based. That is a pork -- important, even when they may

achieve it in different ways. Whether there is a referendum is

remaining to be seen. They can be very focused in terms of opinion. I

think that is a breath of fresher. Both of them realise this will not

be quick and it will take time to turn the party around. If you try

and do it quickly it will not happen. Both are strong leaders and

the thing that is very clear is that they are going to be

unambiguous about what they want to do. What is the Ulster Unionist

Party? How is it different from the Alliance Party are the DUP? They

will set out what the party is and what the party aims to achieve.

do not want this to be about a referendum on being in or out of

government. The next leader needs to do a good shift. They need to do

at least two cycles of Assembly elections. We need to look at where

we are going to be not on the 2nd April but on 2nd April 1920 15 and

2020. -- 2015. We want to put the people first and build on the

economy. We want people have jobs that they actually enjoy. We want

people with homes rather than houses. If you have very little

influence in the Executive, how can you do that? You cannot make

changes to corporation tax Auret difference to the skill set of the

workforce? We were the ones proposing corporation tax. I know

John says he wants to bring the minister out of the Executive but

is he giving up our chairmanships and vice chairmanships, where we

will sit in the chamber? Will we have to elbow in between Jim

Allister and so -- David McNarry? When the opposition back in? They

are'making body. -- they are the policy-making body.

John McCallister was the first to declare as a candidate. In a moment

we will hear from him, but first, a snapshot of his career so far.

A former president of the Young Farmers' Club, John McCallister has

enjoyed a speedy rise through the ranks of the Ulster Unionists. He

joined just seven years ago and was elected to Stormont in 2007 as

member for South Down, winning re- election for years letter. His

distinctive delivery and relative youth marked him out among his

colleagues. The with the Minister agree that this has an adverse

affect on businesses, tourism, commuters right across the Southern

Area? Although he back Basil McCrea's unsuccessful bid for the

leadership 18 months ago against Tom Elliot, he served as deputy

leader and a Tom Elliot as well as chief whip. He is the first -- he

was the first candidate to declare when a vacancy came up and set out

his stall clearly. This is the important debate to have, whether

we were towards closer Unionist co- operation or go into opposition and

oppose the government and support them if they are right? We need to

set out a clear agenda of what is good for Northern Ireland. That is

what I think Ulster Unionism at its best is and should be about. John

McCallister joins us now. Good afternoon. Is it a brave or foolish

move to declare your hand on opposition so early in the race and

set it out as a competition between opposition and what every his Mike

Nesbitt is standing for? There is no point in going into a race and

heading -- hedging your bets. Tell people about the change you will

bring. People are probably refreshed to hear people say what

they are going to do. That is where I would lead the party. How will

the work? It is an informal opposition you are talking about,

not one that is legislated for, is that right? That is right. There is

no structure at the moment. Are you seriously going to tell me that we

should not do this because Peter and Martin say we can't? This is

about saying, do you agree with the principles of opposition? We are

going to take a first step and co- owner and be in opposition, formal

or informal, we will be in opposition and hold this

administration to a card and provide people with an alternative

Howwood that work? -- how would that work. The only position you

would lose was the one ministerial. I think it improves the Government.

Where we were in 1998, it was sensible to have an inclusive form

of government to get us from where we were, coming out of conflict. It

is a healthy thing to have an opposition. Every democratic system

in the world has an opposition or checks and balances on power. That

is what we need. This is what most people in politics think has to

happen. The it has been reported you do not have a lot of support in

the Assembly group, who seemed to be going for Mike Nesbitt. If you

were as successful, how would you convince them it would be a good

idea to give up the one piece of power you have around the Executive

table? The one piece of power sums it up. Why hang about for a few

crumbs from the table and let the Deputy First Minister decide when

we can speak and what we can do and what policies we adopt? That is not

what we want. We need to break out and change the politics and move

away from the calf up a type of We are regarded as the least

influential party in the Executive, and that is not helpful to a party

trying to reconnect. Just being in there for one tiny crumb is not

reason enough. You need an identity and message. This is about working

the Systems in Stormont and it is healthy for democracy. How do you

convince them? I have not asked my colleagues for support. I have

taken this message to the party faithful. MLAs' votes can the same.

It is an one member, one Vogue party. That is the message I am

saying to the party -- won a vote party. I want to ask them. This is

a real change. I do not have the party machinery supporting me, I am

committed to taking the argument out to the people and the

membership. Do you think you will win? I would not be better in your

house on it, but I will give it my best shot. Whoever wins has to

behind the leader. Mike Nesbitt suggested that we have a referendum

on changing the style of Stormont. A referendum. You had a referendum

on the Good Friday Agreement. It did not mean everybody accepted it.

You need to make the argument to people. If they agree with it, they

will vote for that. The reason I think our vote has gone, we have

tried been in the Executive as a smaller party. We have had two

ministers and the boat going down to one minister. We are not getting

the credit -- of the vote. You need an alternative. You, as a voter,

have no way of changing the Government. That is not healthy in

democracy. Do you think this idea will win round members who were not

connected to Stormont? The truth is that nobody knows. There has never

been a poll of opinion in the Unionist Party. He was saying

earlier he did not want it just to be a referendum, it is difficult to

see how that is not the main issue. It is possibly a majority, there is

a big chunk of the party, but if it is the most important thing to that

chunk of the party, to take on the DUP from the opposition benches, if

that chunk of the party is big enough and see this as the only way

to get to opposition, John McCallister might do better than

some people think. This is a massive issue. And what happened

with Tom Elliott. Do you think that either candidate can end the

division? Do smack mend. Elliott was a continuity choice.

The key is that something big has to change. A problem I have with

the UUP is I came back from England in 1983 and most had never been to

my door asking me to vote for them. Everybody else has. How do they

mobilise the membership? Others are better at doing it. One of the keys

for the leader is putting energy into the party. If the energy and

commitment is there, you can go anywhere. John, how do you bring

energy back into the party, is it about knocking on doors? Absolutely.

You have to get out. You have to engage with people. And listen to

the good and the bad that people are telling you. I have done

serious can then -- canvassing in my constituency. That does pay off.

It is about giving a central message of what you stand for and

the direction of the party. That would be my job if elected to, to

give the message. We would be in listening mode. We would want to

present ideas to the public and be the alternative at the next

election. Interesting to see how the next two weeks passed out.

If it is over four months to the start of the greatest show on earth.

The London Olympics. Apart from brief training camps, what has

Northern Ireland gained from the games? There are some flashing

images in this report. It is 5:30am. These young swimmers

start a two-hour training session. It takes dedication from the

youngsters, coaches and parents. swimming means my life. I am in

seven times a week. That is all I think about. It is an important

sport. It keeps you fit and it is all I have known. This is where the

swimmers won to be in a few months' time. At the Olympics. Young

hopefuls are training every day in the 50 metre facilities. They will

have a 10 lame of Paul, 50 metres. -- as swimming pool with 10 lanes.

They have testing rooms. They have what you would be looking for Team

G B to have. They get that 24 hours a day. A taking shape on the

outside -- outskirts of Bangor is the new swimming pool. It has been

delayed. It was due to open two years ago. Because of difficulties

with government finance, that date had to be postponed from this

summer. An unavoidable problem in the building work, when beams were

damaged, meant another delay. It will not be open until next

February at the earliest. Despite that, it is regarded as a new dawn

for sport in Northern Ireland, and the minister is due here this week

to name the swimming pool. They have been working flat out and I am

told they are on target. I went down to visit it. If I find out

anything different, I will hold them to account. I will -- am sure

it will be done. The swimming pool will not be delivered in 2012, but

neither it seems will there be a boost for companies tendering for

work. 1500 contracts were handed out worth �5 billion. Most

successful firms were in the south- east of England. In Northern

Ireland, 43 companies have won contracts. Less than 1% of the

total awarded. One of the few local firms to secure work is this one in

Belfast. The company has around �7 million of business, including the

fitter out of the media centre. That was a year and a half of pre-

qualification and interviews and network events. It was hard work.

We were determined there was opportunity in the London region.

We did not succeed as much as we would have liked to have done but

it put a foot in the door and the companies will have that experience.

I have no doubt they will get feedback. They should learn lessons

on what to do next. This Economist says it is disappointing that the

share of the spoils is so minimal for Northern Ireland. The one of

the demonstrated effects of an Olympic Games is that it encourages

people to participate in sport. Over the next few years, I think we

will see more people. That is a social benefit and also benefits us

financially and economically by reducing costs to health and social

services looking after people. You would be forgiven there were no

other political stories this week. But there were other stories making

headlines for a -- headlines. Mary McCardle was jailed for her

role in the murder of a magistrate's daughter. I want to

achieve something for my sister's memory. Claims a former Taoiseach

viewed the murder of soldiers as a political act. MLAs will get a pay

rise. Three men emerged as possible new leaders of the UUP, only for

the favourite to change his mind. Robinson and Martin McGuinness were

quizzed by school children. answered my questions to a

respectable standard. I spend so much time preparing this exciting

speech, and there they are, having a conversation.

People have been vocal about the pay issue this week. When it go

ahead? I think it will go ahead. They have sourced it to this body.

They did not want to vote it through. They did not conceive the

independent body might cut something else. Given the number of

MLAs we have, it is difficult to see how they can reverse that and