09/02/2014 Sunday Politics Northern Ireland

difficulties. Ivan Lewis will join us live from Dublin. And joining me

to share their thoughts on all of that are the author and commentator

Susan McKay and the BBC's former Ireland correspondent, Denis

Murray... With elections on both sides of the border just months

away, Sinn Fein's annual conference was well-timed to rally the party

faithful. But despite the upbeat mood in the conference hall, the

problems facing the party in Northern Ireland were never far

away. Martin McGuinness called on those he described

away. Martin McGuinness called on Wexford... Welcome to Wexford and

the sunny south-east, but not very often this weekend. The rain was so

persistent at one stage that there was concern that the river might

flood, so pardon the unintended pun, but at the ard fheis, Sinn Fein was

hoping to persuade floating voters in advance of the elections in May I

have is of the elections. There was an orange alert for the weather.

Orange alert was another theme throughout the conference

proceedings. The ard fheis took place in the Wexford Opera house and

delegates heard the Deputy First Minister criticised the Unionist

parties for their failure to reach an agreement with nationalists on

the Haass proposals. He said the Unionist parties were dancing to the

Orange Order's tune. The current difficulties are real and they are

not insurmountable. My commitment and the commitment of Sinn Fein to

the process and to the institutions is absolute. The ard fheis heard

Martin McGuiness say that the issues could not be drawn out until after

the May elections, while Gerry Adams offered to meet the Orange Order to

discuss their concerns. Delegates were optimistic that there would be

an agreement with the DUP. We can all agree it would be better if the

Executive were working in a coordinated fashion in terms of

addressing the issues they are failing to address at the moment.

The DUP need to realise that communities are moving on without

them. They are moving ahead of the Executive in terms of delivering on

cross-border issues, communities working together and the DUP need to

catch up. Grassroots unionism understand that there is a situation

in government and that some point somebody will have to blink and I

think the DUP will have to realise from their own grassroots that the

ordinary people in the six counties want a government to do the

ordinary people in the six counties criticised in the media and by

politicians, mainly in the Republic, following a programme on the

Disappeared and questions about passing on information about his

brother, a convicted child rapist. The ard fheis rallied around him. A

relentless campaign of vilification against Gerry Adams in this State is

a disgrace and it shoots stop immediately. Of those who were not

even born when Gerry Adams became leader, want him to stay on. When

Gerry Adams puts his name forward, they will elect him President. Will

you make him President for life? I am not sure that the rules will

allow for that, but I am certain that each time it Gerry Adams

contests for the position, we will vote him in. The ard fheis ended

without a song from the fat lady, but with lots of applause for the

tall, slim, bearded man. Shane Harrison reporting from Wexford. Our

Political Editor, Mark Devenport, has been speaking to the Sinn Fein

President, Gerry Adams. He began by asking him about Sinn Fein ruling

out re-negotiation of the Haass proposals when surely that's

precisely what's going on at Stormont? We should be doing our

best as political leaders, who ever we represent, to serve all of the

people and the fact is these issues are not going away. We have to deal

with the past, we have to deal with issues of identity and contentious

parades and we will deal with them. There is a process of change

underway and sometimes it strikes me that it is quite difficult to be a

Unionist leader, because they come from a history of no, never, no

surrender and now they have to embrace equality and embrace other

qualities which are almost foreign to the Unionist philosophy. All they

can do is delay, but they to the Unionist philosophy. All they

state has gone, the 2.5 parties state in this state has gone, so

changes happening. If there is not a dealer by the time of the elections,

have you got any other alternative? dealer by the time of the elections,

We will continue to make process and engage with all sectors of society,

I actually think that the Unionist leaders are well behind were popular

opinion, including popular Unionist opinion, while they may reflect the

elitist or committed political core that we all work with, you but you

have to see beyond that and Martin McGuiness said quite wisely to

Michael Nesbit, if you have got 90% of A.D. , then close the deal. We

are uncomfortable with aspects of this, we would argue that it could

be strengthened in certain aspects, but you cannot in this negotiation

get it the way you want. This will not be the Ulster, Don't, it is

going to be a compromised -- covenant. The British Government

needs to make it clear, the Irish government has said it wants to see

this implemented, the British Government needs to do the same. Do

you think it David Cameron was wise to big that speech calling for

people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland to make their

voices known in relation to Scottish independence? That is his business.

We decided to stay out of the debate on Scotland because that is a matter

for the people of Scotland. The affairs of this island are matter

for the people here. He is the British Prime Minister, he will say

whatever he says. I made a point to one of your colleagues, and I will

make a broader point, the use to be a British Empire, now we are it.

That is what it has been reduced to, almost from ruling the

That is what it has been reduced to, support the union that it would be

there for ever, the North was described as being as British as

Finchley, but that has gone. People need to wake up, it has gone. The

union is now conditional, one of the big achievements of the Good Friday

Agreement is that it is a matter for the people to decide and we want to

urge that debate here, whatever the people of Scotland do, that is a

matter for them, but the debate here, we want to encourage that. You

said that the UK is hanging by a thread, if Irish republicans were

two to -- to take some encouragement from Scotland, is the reverse true,

if there is a no vote, it may have a negative impact on your campaign for

border poll. No, there is an integrity to the awful negative

impact of British Government rule on our island. I say that with respect

to people from the Unionist tradition who have a sense of

Britishness, or whatever, about their right to that and their

identity, no one can argue that British Government involvement in

our affairs on partition or the development of sectarianism or all

of the divisions, we talk about the last 30 years of conflict, which

thankfully is behind us, but think back over the centuries. It has

never been good for us. Those people within unionism who are sitting back

now and saying, will we have another summer like last year? Will we have

idiots running around the city centre with union flags around

them, besmirching their own flag and breaking the law and inflicting

sectarian pressure upon small communities or can we not just be

like people everywhere, that we welcome this summer, or we can all

relax and have a good time? Martin McGuiness made clear that he has no

intention of putting himself forward to succeed you as party President,

will the next leader to succeed you as party President,

party President, I did so reluctantly. At that time, I did say

that I thought that the party President should come from the

south. We have such a range of talented people. Do you still think

the party President should come from the South? Yes, but I am mindful

that there is no contest for the party leadership at the moment. It

is entirely hypothetical. When it comes to the time when the party has

to choose another party President, they will do so and what they will

have, it which they did not have in my day, is a range of people, both

men and women from Donegal to Wexford, across the country, of

bright intelligent, smart and very energetic people and what we all

share, all the different ages that we have, we still share and idealism

and have an energy and commitment. Thank you. Gerry Adams talking to

Mark Devenport in Wexford. Joining me now are the BBC's former Ireland

Correspondent, Denis Murray, and the commentator Susan McKay... You're

both welcome. Sinn Fein made the point repeatedly over the weekend

that it is an all island party, but this was a speech for two quite

different electorates. It was almost like two speeches and the vast bulk

of it was for the audience in the Irish Republic. I covered in ard

fheis for years and the bulk of the speech was always about the

struggle, about the North, about that question. Now, it is almost

despite Gerry Adams's insistence on an all island party, it is almost

like you do not have to talk about Northern Ireland, it is resolved.

The Republic is where Sinn Fein can increase the vote. There was that

line in the speech, offering to reach out to the Orange Order and

meet the leadership to discuss identity, but over and above that,

meet the leadership to discuss the Orange tradition, been an

important part of our history. He is making the right noises, but when he

says about idiots in his speech. The people who are doing that, you may

see them as that, but that passion goes very deep with them. Is it

about setting out his stall for further growth in the Republic? Sinn

Fein is on the rise in the Republic and they will do better and better

for the meantime, but they underestimate the resilience of

Fianna Fail. They have the biggest appeal of those least likely to

vote. They are popular with young men, working-class young men, they

are unpopular with women and middle-class voters. They are going

to have to work on that constituency and obviously Mary Lou McDonald

would make a huge difference if she was leader. Is that looking more

likely? Gerry Adams is terribly damaged. He has looked damaged.

Because he is there among the faithful, but certainly he is

damaged. If he talks about a toxic culture in relation to issues like

child abuse, it will not wash because the party has been shown to

have a toxic culture itself in that regard. He does need to go for the

party to have a wider appeal. He is hopeless on economic issues in the

Republic. Mary Lou McDonald has performed strongly on that. It must

be said that the party did back the disastrous Fianna Fail bank

guarantee which underlies so much of the economic crisis in the Republic.

Thank you both for now. The Shadow Secretary of State, Ivan Lewis, is

meeting the Tanaiste, Eamonn Gilmore, in Dublin today. On a

recent trip to Belfast, Mr Lewis warned that three years of

consecutive elections could lead to a period of 'timidity or political

paralysis' in Northern Ireland. Reacting to the failure of the Haass

talks to break the deadlock Reacting to the failure of the Haass

me now Reacting to the failure of the Haass

joining us. You are due to meet Eamon Gilmore later today, you were

at the ard fheis over the weekend. You have been critical of the

Tories's handling of politics here, what would you do differently if you

were in charge? Flags parades and the past are issues which are

outstanding issues connected with the peace process. If you looked at

the evolution of the peace process, every stage of that process, the UK

and Irish governments have been heavily engaged, directly meeting

the parties, trying to help find common ground. The parties must

maintain leadership but that lack of engagement we have seen,

particularly from the UK Government has come home to roost with the

failure to reach agreement in relation to Haass. Theresa Villiers

disputes that, she says she is engaged and waiting to step in if

requested to do so. Eamon Gilmore made a similar point. I have been in

this job for five months and every Northern Irish politician I have met

has talked about, clearly, the sense of the Secretary of State who is

disengaged. When have we seen David Cameron make any comments about the

Haass talks? In the end, of course it is right that we must allow

devolution to work, we must encourage Northern Ireland parties

to take responsibility, but the issues we are focused on our

directly, issues connected with the peace process and if you look at the

past, the UK Government is massively central to dealing with the past in

Northern Ireland, as is the Irish government. If you look at any

outcome from Haass, there will be financial implications, in terms of

any new infrastructure required to deal with the past, there will be

legislative issues, in terms of devolving -- getting rid of the

Parades Commission. The British and Irish government have direct

involvement. Are you saying that you would have called all of

involvement. Are you saying that you paternalistic that we would be

calling in the parties, we would have been having over a long period

of time intensive discussions. They would have been private and

discreet. We would be trying to identify the common ground. Last

week, the Secretary of State did an interview where she said there would

be some resources potentially available to make any agreement on

the past work. Prior to that, she said there would be no resources.

Subsequently she said she had been misquoted and would still be no

resources. There is even a lack of clarity. The Prime Minister has been

absent entirely from the discussions. What is perhaps not

helpful to moving forward is to have an end to the bipartisan approach,

to have a shadow Secretary of State sniping at the Secretary of State

who says she is doing her best? It is not me who arrived in Northern

Ireland and talked about the disengagement of the UK Government,

it is all the political parties who feel the same. If they all feel the

same, they are either involved in a conspiracy or telling the truth. Of

course on questions of security and many other issues, not welfare and

jobs and growth, but on security, we will maintain our bipartisan

approach. Can I ask you about the Ballymurphy families who have had

their demand for an independent panel backed by the Taoiseach in

Dublin? The families are waiting for a meeting with David Cameron, where

do you stand on that demand? I shall certainly be meeting them for the

first time next week in Belfast. There are questions to answer, I

will certainly meet with them and engage with them and clarifying our

position on the nature of any enquiry, but of course, David

Cameron should meet with the families. Ivan Lewis, thank you.

Now, let's pause for a look back at the week in politics in sixty

seconds, with Gareth Gordon... the week in politics in sixty

not get your way, is this a resignation matter? I think you are

straying beyond the remit. Should Protestants learn the Irish

language? I believe it is part of a republican agenda. Eventually they

will try and make it the same as English. In a free country, people

are entitled to learn whatever language they wish and to practice

whatever language they wish. Has the GAA done enough to calm fears over

the new Casement Park? There are things we could have done better. I

take responsible a day for that. Does the Education Minister O one of

his critics an apology? Because I would not write to him, because I

wrote to the permanent Secretary, that he should punish me. There are

many injustices throughout the world and meeting him on the latter is not

one of them. Gareth Gordon reporting. Denis Murray and Susan

McKay are still with me... Picking up there, what is the perspective

from Dublin on this spat between the Secretary of State and Ivan Lewis

about how much the British Government and Irish government

should or should not be involved in the political dialogue regarding

Haass at the moment? The Irish government is nervous about dealing

with criticising unionism and since that unionism is clearly responsible

for the failure of the Haass talks to be agreed at this point, that is

difficult for them. Eamon Gilmore has indicated that he will support

trying to get the proposals implemented, but in a timid way. I

think it will be seen as welcome that the shadow Secretary of State

is saying things, pointing out the dithering that Theresa Villiers has

done. She has been a week Secretary of State. Your thoughts, Dennis? The

way the talks ended was of State. Your thoughts, Dennis? The

pleasant. Richard Haass meant his deadline. Tony Blair kept

pleasant. Richard Haass meant his problems. I do not see how you

revive those in any meaningful way until after the elections and then

you're into the marching season.