27/05/2012 Sunday Politics Northern Ireland

Reconciliation and an appeal to dissident republicans - we'll be

hearing from the Sinn Here: Fein President Gerry Adams after his

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 1671 seconds

party's conference in County Kerry Hello and welcome to the programme.

Reconciliation was kind on the agenda at this weekend's Sinn Fein

Ard Fheis in Killarney. Delegates heard for the first time about

talks with civic leaders within the Protestant community. Offers of

talks were also made to dissident republicans. When I was based in

Belfast, I contacted the various, as I understood it, officers for

people who would be representing the various factions. Let them

steady up. Let them test us. will hear more from Sinn Fein

president Gerry Adams shortly. Also, this time next week we will know

how the republic voted in the latest referendum on Europe. But

though the outcome matter to people in Northern Ireland? Here to talk

about all that and more are our guests of the day, Professor Rick

well for Dundee -- and economist Mike Smythe. It was sunshine all

the way in County Kerry when around 1000 delegates descended on

Killarney for the Ard Fheis. The big themes what Ireland's economy

and building bridges with Unionism. Yvette Shapiro went to County Kerry.

The glorious kingdom of Keddie. One of Ireland's key tourist

destinations. And on a day like this, you can see why. All roads

lead to Kerry for the annual Sinn Fein Ard Fheis this weekend, and

they couldn't have chosen a better time for it. Not only is the sun

shining on the party in electoral terms and in terms of its recent

strength and the opinion polls here, but it's also just days away from

the all-important fiscal treaty referendum. Sinn Fein is taking the

lead in the No campaign. There's a considerable section of people who

were worried about the future funding issue. There have been huge

scare tactics in this campaign. We will try and give hope to those

people in the time ahead. Of course, the French presidential election

was a victory of hope over fear, at the hope here in Ireland we will

have the same outcome. The treaty isn't the only big event coming up.

Euro 2012 provided the theme for several speakers. The team in the

euros are going to be stronger because they will be in the squad

alongside Keane and Shay Given, because Eilish -- Irish teams are

stronger. A senator made a dramatic point about emigration. One of many

clubs unable to field a team. of the key issues of this advice is

reconciliation, with calls for Martin McGuinness and other senior

figures for greater Unionist engagement. Sinn Fein's new MEP,

Martina Anderson, has been involved in this type of outreach work for

the past six years. I would suggest that those people who have had an

opportunity to sit down with us, have realised... I wanted to talk

about as human beings, based on our commonality, all that we have in

common. And as people, it didn't matter if we came from one

tradition or none. But if we had an experience based on the social and

economic set-up that we share it in one space. Sinn Fein likes to play

off it's all Irish credentials, but is at a party of two hearts? Some

of their parliamentarians in the republic are quite honest about the

fact they feel the party has been to Northern focused. It's

inevitable because of the Troubles and the fall-out from that, that

the party has been Northern focused. But they want to get over that.

They feared its holding them back in the republic. The sunshine

brought out the leaders. First Martin McGuinness soaked up the

attention, and then it was Gerry Adams' turn with a photocall with

now too familiar delegates. From the platform, Mr Adams had a clear

message for Unionists. We want to demonstrate to Unionists that a

union of Ireland is in our interests. It makes sense, a single

island economy makes sense. And united Ireland will emerge through

a Jenny Gunn process of national reconciliation. Gerry Adams says he

will lead the party into the 2016 election. And after that, he will

make way for a new generation. After his keynote address, our

political Editor spoke to Sinn Fein president Gerry Adams, and asked

him about the significance of the reconciliation talks. I think it's

very significant. Obviously this is a journey that we are all on. I

think the fact that both sides in this, the Republicans and the

people from the Broady Unionist region, they both see the value in

it. Both accepted as genuine. I think it's important. You have to

put it in the context of Martin McGuinness and Peter Robinson

continuing to do their work. So there is an example of practical

reconciliation. Both these men have their own politics, their own

review of the world and of Ireland, but they can work together. What we

need to do is to move into a slightly different phase, where we

actually start to make friends with each other. Would your party

chaired challenge the political leaders to get involved, but they

might ask what it is about. Is it about reconciliation or a stage on

the way towards the United Ireland? We need reconciliation anyway, but

reconciliation on a personal level, it's a personal issue.

Reconciliation as part of a conflict resolution process is

bigger than that. You want to try and ensure that any one who is on

the fringes of what is happening is set a better example. So it's clear

that Sinn Fein is a united Ireland party, that's what we are, we make

no bones about it. We believe that we would be better governing

ourselves and we would make a better fist of it. We think that a

republican form of government would be the best model. So let's

Exchange and debate and talk these issues out. You say you want to

persuade the Unionists of your perspective in relation to Irish

unification, but you want persuasion the other way. They will

say, what we've got right now is probably the best governance. It's

a compromise. It's the best compromise at this time. Given

where we all have come from, it's really crucial that we continue to

stabilise the progress that has been made. Martin McGuinness put it

today, when he said, we can't have a union Ireland without the

Unionists. This is a cordial union. A great Protestant patriot 200

years ago talked about the need for a cordial union between the people

of Ireland to protect our commercial interests. To prevent

the English from interfering. That is still true today. In terms of

dialogue, the other group that Martin McGuinness was talking about

was the dissidents. He denounced their campaign but said he was open

to talk to them. At least one group has said that it is empty rhetoric

and nothing came of a similar offer you made a couple of years ago.

isn't that the rhetoric... Personally I'd tried. When I was

based in Belfast, I contacted the various, as I understood it,

officers for people who would be representing the various factions.

So let them steady up. Let them test us. That group that you have

just described, if they want to come along and talk, let them come

along and talk. We want to be in a situation where we can persuade

them. But they can object to us, they can have different policies to

us, that is their entitlement. But there is no justification at all

for their involvement in violent actions at this time or defending

violent actions at this time. talk to Professor Rouga Wilford

from Queen's University. Something of a mixed message on

reconciliation. I think the reconciliation is the first step on

a journey towards eventually the realisation of the unified Ireland.

In order to make progress on reconciliation, I think political

Unionists are going to insist that a condition of reconciliation is

trust. That people will speak the truth as they go to power. Because

if you are going to try and build an edifice of reconciliation brick

by brick, in order to hold that edifice together you need mortar

and the mortar has to be the trust that is invested in the process.

But they will be suspicious, the Unionists. They will see this as a

step on the road. Unionism, including the DUP, are not ill-

disposed to the idea of good neighbourliness with the Republic.

But it's the constitutional issue, the grumbling appendix. It can be

induced into a chronic condition at any moment. If there is a lack of

trust. But is it interesting that they've gone for civic leaders as

opposed to politicians for these initial talks? I suppose they're

spin one that would be you have to take the first step somewhere.

There are many people within the Unionist community who historically

have been prepared to talk to leaders of republicanism, in order

to try and get disarmament and decommissioning. It could also be

read as a signalling of weakness. Bano, Sinn Fein that is, that there

is very little mileage at this junction in trying to engage the

leaders of political unionism in talks that are designed or

suspected at being designed to lead towards unification of Ireland.

They've got to start somewhere. We don't have a Civic Forum which

would be an ideal venue for such talks and discussions and

negotiations to take place. It seems to me rather improvised, low-

key, but it's used as a vehicle to demonstrate to Unionism by

republicans that they are sincere about trying to effect better

neighbourly relations. But then the Unionists believe that good

neighbourliness depends on the various factors. On the overall

picture for Sinn Fein, riding high in the opinion polls in the

republic. But is it easier for them because there are such

disenchantment among the public in the south? Yes. But the latest

opinion polls suggest that the Yes vote is going to be injured on

Thursday. Not necessarily by a large margin. But they are out of

government and they can position themselves as the opposition. There

was a kind of almost paraphrased, Roosevelt's famous phrase of you've

nothing to fear but fear itself. And McGuinness saying that people

mustn't be governed by fear of the future. And across Europe, there

are political parties and movements who are opposed to what BC as the

stringent austerity that is being visited upon them. In that sense,

they are running with some popular tide. But actually, I don't think

they are going to win. I think people are so fearful, a step in

the direction of the treaty is one thing. The other is the great

unknown. I think people will step This time next week, voters in the

Republic will have been to the pollster vote yes or no on the

fiscal treaty referendum on Europe. We asked our Dublin correspondent

for an idiot's guide. 10 years after its launch, the euro has run

into trouble because member states have persistently broken rules

about controlling debts. Hence the fiscal treaty. Just as it is unwise

for households to spend money they don't have and to get too deeply

into debt, the treaty demands that eurozone members reduce their

borrowing. The Republic is one of the biggest debt offenders. Mainly

as a result of paying to clean up its failed banks. Countries must

obey the new rules, either by raising taxes or by cutting public

spending. All too often it is both. And if they don't, they face heavy

fines. All the main political parties say the treaty is necessary

for stability, which in turn will lead to investment in jobs.

Opponents, like Sinn Fein, say it means never ending all austerity.

Unless the Republic ratified the treaty, it won't get access to

emergency loans. An insurance policy which it might well need

when it exerts its current bail-out loan at the end of next year.

Thursdays bulb could well come down to the conflicting emotions of fear

of the unknown reverses and go about austerity and calls for the

banks. What are the implications for as in Northern Ireland? Mike

Smythe, you know all about this. If the No vote was successful, what

would that mean for business in Northern Ireland? I don't think it

will make that much difference. A No vote will send out a fairly

negative message to international investors in Ireland. It puts a

question over whether Ireland will move on to the next stage of what

ever the European project will be. As far as North-South, economic

relations, I don't think it makes much difference. A Yes vote,

however, would cement the Republic early permanently into the euro

project, where ever it goes. There would be permanently two currencies

on the island, two different tax systems, security systems, etc. And

closer economic co-operation would be made that much more difficult.

Are you surprised how the whole debate over the treaty has gone?

is a Hobson's choice. Even then Yes campaign has been characterised by

a rather negative campaigning. Saying, look, if we don't vote yes,

international investors will lose confidence and it may threaten

foreign investment, companies might pull out. On that the no side,

their main argument has been, even if we don't need a second bail-out,

someone will lend us the money. So what hasn't been clear. It hasn't

been decisive. To be fair, the whole euro thing has moved on. This

treaty, which was agreed six months ago, was supposed to be part of the

solution to the euro crisis. The euro crisis has got a lot worse and

has a lot further to go. That is a big issue, even for the voters who

have decided. The polls suggest that most of them don't want to

vote on the referendum at this stage and Bielik should have been

postponed. That's true. The French election added some way to that

argument. But austerity, holding onto your job, combating falling

living standards - those kind of bread and butter issues of far more

important now in the republic and a rather abstract treaty referendum.

And nobody has a crystal ball to know if Ireland would be better on

its own. There is a tenuous argument that compared with Greece,

Ireland has a Plan B. And that would be, if it ever came to it,

Ireland could leave the euro and referred back to the sterling euro.

It would have to default on a large part of its debts, but the feeling

is it could overcome such a setback. Whereas with Greece, there doesn't

seem to be any alternative. Now for our regular look at the week in 60

Sharing land in north Belfast divided opinions. The alliance had

enough of talking and instead opted for walking. Alliance has grown

because the work behind the scenes was achieving nothing. Nothing came

from a Medical Research Centre, which cost taxpayers �2 million.

It's clear that there was mismanagement, bad management,

there seemed to be incumbency from start to finish. Numbers of a

different kind exercised a Deputy Speaker. Questions number one,

three, four, 7, 8 and 14 are withdrawn. I think I'm calling

bingo at this time. A bit ridiculous. But someone did have

the finance minister's number. Let's look at the start of that 60

seconds. The alliance walking away. What does it tell us about the DUP

and Sinn Fein? Critics would say this is just another exemplar

vocation of the difficulties between the two major parties.

Although the SDLP were photographed alongside them in this instance.

What it suggests, we were talking earlier about reconciliation, what

this looks like is a separate but equal solution, with a common that

space in between. It is significant that alliance, who have been highly

in favour of trying to reconcile and promote community relations,

they have the bottom line for taking up the justice post,

progress on community relations and their improvement. Now they've

walked away, I don't think he's going to walk away from his

department. I think it is more than a hissy fit. I think it

demonstrates to us how difficult it is to actually make progress on

community relations at ground level. It is improving but it has a long

way to go. I think what this does... It is perceived by critics as being

a kind of home runs policy. You keep people separate. It throws

that kind of rhetoric out that we heard yesterday, signals about

reconciliation and discussions, I think it throws it into a harsh,

Inter communal rite. Here we have two parties who simply cannot agree

on a common programme that was designed to make Northern Ireland

an nation at ease with itself, where there is social integration.

Others would argue that they've taken the pragmatic approach and