28/04/2013 Sunday Politics Northern Ireland

Northern Ireland: The Finance Minister, Sammy Wilson, on what he

sees as a new confidence in the economy.

Apology for the loss of subtitles for 2295 seconds

Plus the challenge ahead for local Northern Ireland. Could Northern

Ireland become the UK's economic Merkel? The First Minister thinks so

and has used the Spring Conference and Enniskillen to hammer home how

the devolution of corporation tax would transform economic fortunes.

With unemployment at a 15 year high and per economic growth, we asked

the Finance Minister Sammy Wilson what more can be done to boost the

economy? And power to the people, as the plan to make 26 councils until

11 takes a step forward, what do councillors make of the new

responsibilities? Joining me to look at the political developments are

Gerry Morriarty, Northern Editor of the Irish Times and Sam McBride

political correspondent of the News Letter. Are you glass half empty

glass half full? We may have narrowly missed a triple dip

recession in the economy but are there any green shoots? The latest

economic figures show there has been growth over the last year, albeit

though it is low, but is the economy on the turn? The Finance Minister

Sammy Wilson is with me. Are you optimistic? It is always important

to be optimistic because I recognise that if people do not have

confidence, even if the economy is doing relatively well, of course

they will be reluctant to spend and to invest. People will be fearful of

their jobs. Why you -- while you cannot ignore economic facts, if you

on top of pool economic performance, took the economy down, it will

discourage people from doing the kind of things that we need to pull

us out of the recession. You have a difficult job. While you do not want

to talk the economy down, it is difficult to read. Economic growth

was not point 3% for 20 12. The construction sector is struggling at

the moment. You cannot wish those factors away. Let me put the other

facts to you. Normally Northern Ireland with the right at the bottom

in terms of employment and other economic factors. We are not. Over

the last year, the figures show we have grown by 0.4% and there are

already signs in the construction industry of an upturn in --. Arlene

Foster is announcing new investment in Northern Ireland. Last week over

140 new jobs from firms within Northern Ireland and outside the

country, at a high tech level and lower levels of income, there are

other things where we are the second most attractive region outside

London. I would say that yes, of course, not all of the economic

indicators are showing a bright future. But they are not showing a

black future that people are trying to present. Are those the green

shoots of recovery? I think they are. The economy is slowly turning

around, obviously not as fast as we need. In terms of employment, over

the last year, the number of jobs are available in Northern Ireland

has gone up I nearly 2000 in the middle of a recession. -- gone up by

nearly. The Federation of Master builders has said that construction

firms in Northern Ireland are showing more optimism. We are

increasing exports. We are looking for new markets. All of those things

show that we are not the difficult case that people are trying to

portray, and there are reasons to be confident. What about corporation

tax? Your party leader at the Spring Conference last night said the

reduction of corporation tax for Northern Ireland could be a game

changer. Is that how you see it? want to see corporation tax default.

-- we want to see the devolution -- the devolution of corporation tax.

How much longer can we wait Minister? It must be one of the

elements that we look at. But the Prime Minister has made it clear

there will be no decision until September 2014. Maybe it will come

after that. We have been waiting a long time. Peter Robinson said last

night there should be no plan B. are disappointed. This was a

Conservative commitment and started off of the Conservative Party saying

that you want to see the economy in Northern Ireland being restructured.

This is a means by which we could see this happening and then they

walk away from it! Politically I think they are wrong and I think

they have given Alex Salmond a very important lever to hit them over the

head with. But we will continue to press for it. In the meantime the

first and deputy worst minister will be looking at an economic pact with

the government at Westminster and there are some ideas there. --

Deputy First Minister. Out the DUP and other parties handled the flag

disputed did not help grow the economy in Northern Ireland, did it?

We have been prepared to take some leadership over this and tell people

it was wrong and damaging the economy. Hopefully with a lot of the

work that has gone on behind-the-scenes, the problem has

gone away, despite attempts by many people to reinvigorate the issue.

There are many issues like that that are going to be damaging to the

economy, but those who want Northern Ireland to succeed, including many

of those who were in gates to the protest, they should realise it is

not in their interests to hurt the economy of Northern Ireland, because

they, like me, want Northern Ireland to be a place which is attractive

and workable. I am interested in one line of Peter Robinson's speech. I

want Northern Ireland to become known as the UK's economic Merkel.

Did you write that line for him? He does not need me to write his lines

for him, but we did speak about the speech. At times, and even coming up

to the current recession, Northern Ireland was performing better than

any other region of the United Kingdom. We were catching up in

terms of the UK average GDP. There is still a lot of talk about the

economic check back -- the economic package from the Theresa Villiers.

First of all, there are two elements. The first element is that

the suggestions which come forward from the Executive and we are

working on that, and secondly, a commitment from the Westminster

government. Our argument is this. We want to make the Northern Ireland

economy less pendent upon the Exchequer. There are things which

need to be done, and things which can only be done by central

government. We will not run away from our own responsibilities. We

must work on this collaboratively. You are confident this will find its

way onto the table? The other issue you were going to mention, is

whether it is linked to cohesion sharing and integration? Peter

Robinson said you do not need a document for that, but you need to

deliver on the ground. Really the only people who want a document

which is meaningless to the general public are the anoraks! Would it

be? Of course it would. People causing the problems in Northern

Ireland will not read a shiny document from the Executive.

envoy do you bother spending money and strategies? Because it

influences policies, that is why! The point that I was making is if

you want to have people feel that they have a connection to Northern

Ireland, you have an economic policy which gives them a job and enables

them to have a house, and have responsibilities. Those who must

work tomorrow those who can work, must work. Give me a clear answer to

this. Would there be a CSI document published by the Executive? I am

sure there will be eventually. I would not hold too much hope that a

document like that will radically change the situation on the ground.

What I believe is that the situation on the ground will change when real

practical things happen and people have a stake in society. We must put

in place policies which enable people to feel part of Northern

Ireland. Thank you. Let us hear from Sam McBride and Gerry Morriarty.

Cannot help asking you for your response to the Minister's comments

and the aspect and cohesion sharing and integration? I thought the

Secretary of State made a point that she is addressing sectarianism and

Division two an economic plan. How foreign she prepared to push it?

While you need an economic plan, you also need a social plan that people

can work on. I take the Minister's point that it is what is happening

in society that is important, but you need something concrete there.

That is the basis for how we will tackle this problem. Sam McBride, do

you get a sense talking to politicians that there is an

appetite for this? Quite recently it was Peter Robinson who was pushing

for the strategy to be published and it seems to be Sinn Fein who are

blocking it. In some ways, I suppose what Sammy Wilson is saying is that

this will not be published for while. If that is not such a big

thing, actions are more portent than strategies. The parties cannot agree

on that. What about the issue of corporation tax? It has not gone

away, you know? A lot of people who are not doing business are not

affected by this and are probably quite weary of this. We seem to be

going round in circles. Every time the economy is mentioned,

politicians push this idea of corporation tax. If it happens, it

will be a considerable -- considerable period down the line

and we need to look at other areas where politicians can help the

economy. It corporation tax .com, it is not going to drag us out of

recession because it is in the future. Gerry Morriarty, do you buy

into the notion of optimism as far as the economy is concerned? We do

not know whether the green shoots are there. There seem to be

indications North and South of the border, and across the water, that

things are happening. My colleagues who write and talk about economics

here, are correct when they say it could be a game changer. Next year

is not that far away. I think the ministers should keep the pressure

on, but whether it will help not, I do not know. The last time you sat

in that chair, you were at best lukewarm to changes to corporation

tax. Have you been warmed up a little? My position on this is no

different than the position of Peter Robinson. It is a big risk. It will

require us to pay money upfront and it will hopefully lead to the kind

of traction from new investment that we have seen another parts the

world. It Robinson recognises it as a risk as well. If we need a lever

which will see work elsewhere, this is one of the leverage that we

want. We must push for it. Thank you. It has been a long time coming,

but the full extent of the changes in local councils were confirmed by

the environment Minister Alex Attwood to the Assembly on Tuesday.

In April 2015 the number of councils will be reduced to 11. In a few

minutes we will hear from councillors affected by the changes

but our correspondent brings us up to date on the Review of Public

Administration. Politics in Northern Ireland has

been transformed in recent years. So much has changed but one thing has

been left unchanged - local councils. There has been numerous

delays at councils are facing a big shake-up. There will be 11 instead

of 26 and if everything goes according to plan in the next few

years, here in Belfast and elsewhere, things may never quite be

the same again. This is how the new local government map will look.

There will be smaller local councils gripped together. It is a major

overhaul. The new councils will be bigger and more powerful. The

Minister in charge says it will happen very soon. There are 700 days

to grasp an opportunity for change. I would urge all of those with

influence and all of those involved to ensure we maximise the

opportunity. This is a once in a political lifetime opportunity to

get this done and get it done right and on time. The deadline is April

2015. The list of new powers for the councils include banning, housing,

urban regeneration and local tourism. The extra powers mean that

members of the new councils will face new challenges. They will also

face a very old challenge - which flags to fly outside the new council

buildings Western Mark I am joined by Sinn Fein Magherafelt councillor

Sean McPeake and Mark Cosgrove, and Ulster Unionist councillor in

Newtownabbey. You are also the president of the Northern Ireland

Local Government Association which welcomed the money made available by

the Minister to push the change through? Do you think there is

enough money available and make it efficiently and on time? There will

never be enough, but we have to be realistic! The announcement in

January from the Executive for 48 million was a welcome step, no doubt

about it. The whole finance issue had clouded the process to date and

in some ways, still affects the momentum going forward. It creates

uncertainty. We have to look back and be realistic stop the 4 billion

cut to the Conservative budget was a major factor. If it has to be paid

for, it will either have to come from local ratepayers through the

councils, or there will have to be cuts to important sectors like

education. We have to look at the root causes of not having enough

money to move forward. We do believe that Alex Attwood is talking the

right language in saying local government has to be invented in

bridging that gap. Mark Cosgrove are you happy with the money and the new

responsibilities that will be given to the 11 new councils? No, I think

is the answer to both of those questions. The last report indicated

that local government reform would cost �118 million, and while there

has been a �40 million agreed by the Executive, that leaves a shortfall.

It is nearly 50 million. It leaves shortfall. It is very difficult to

go to -- door-to-door and talk about efficiency, you might have to ask

people for more money. The business case put forward, namely �118

million up front, and an overall saving over five years of over 400

million, indicates some saving. I would note like to have to go to the

bank manager in the current economic climate and make that argument. The

two major things that were meant to be devolved to the two major things

that were meant to be devolved when we first talked about this were

planning and local roads. We now have planning devolved and local

roads still has not been devolved. The events of the last month show

that clearly, while Roads Service and their staff do a fantastic job

on main arterial roads, having something like that close to the

people, could deliver very serious improvements to the service.

course the Minister says there will be a review of powers in April 2016.

Perhaps that could be extended? Some people, Sean McPeake, are concerned

about the extent to which new councils will be given

responsibility in areas like urban regeneration and neighbourhood

renewal? That is an awful lot of responsibility for a group of

individuals who have not had that level of responsibility in the

past? Do you accept that? I do accept that. Are councillors going

to be up to that? There will have to be capacity issues and there will

have to be money set aside for the new set of councillors to skill

themselves up. They will have to step up to the plate? They will.

Councillors have been mere consul tees at this time in dealing with

planning issues. They will be the decision-makers, 2015. They will

need to know what they can and cannot do. As well as stepping up to

the plate as far as those responsible of these are concerned,

they will not have to get bogged down in other issues, for example,

such as the flag dispute? First of all they will have to talk about

what flag will fly over the new 11 headquarters? That is the last thing

anyone needs. About the capacity of local government, let us be honest,

many counsellors provided the only democracy in this part of the United

Kingdom from the early 1970s until recently. I have no doubt about the

ability and capacity and that is why I think more things should have been

devolved. Our local government is a diminished vehicle compared to the

rest of the United Kingdom. Thank you both. Time for a look back at

the political week in 60 seconds with Martina Purdy. Children's heart

surgery looks likely to move out of Elf asked to Dublin following a

health report. Parents are periods. They are going to shut down

children's surgery from the Royal Victoria Hospital. -- parents are

furious. The First Minister and Deputy First Minister had a day out

and MLAs were confessing they are weaknesses about smoking. I plan

meetings around cigarettes. Same-sex marriage brought harmony. The reason

that we have marriage in society is because it has a special place and

it is about the nature and rearing of children. How do modern MLAs

compared to the predecessors? are dull.

That was Martina Birdie reporting. Final thought from my guests, some

muck right and Gerry Moriarty. Peter Robinson is speech was strong?

dealt with a lot of issues. He and the Deputy First Minister are still

in for a long haul. In relation to the flags, he spoke about the issue

of being a settled but delicate equilibrium. What we have had in the

last few months shows the veracity of that. Sam McBride, looking ahead

to the same-sex marriage issue which comes up at Stormont tomorrow.